PDA

View Full Version : Fix Iconic TR after ETR



Brandall
03-04-2015, 01:18 PM
I know many have had this issue, run the iconic up to 28, ETR.....then only after you've emptied your TR cache and glutted up your inventory, you go to TR only to get told u must be 28

Once you've hit 28...the milestone required to TR as an iconic it should allow you to TR at any point after that.

I had a convo with a GM regarding this mechanic and he stated that it was something that they were considering revising in the future.

Please revise it.
Most people I know have gotten messed up because of this, I stopped playing for a month because of it myself

Enoach
03-04-2015, 01:28 PM
I've had a few guildmates get caught by this even with it documented with Iconics as well as the Iconic Stone vs Epic Stone.

It is interesting to hear they are considering this change, but it does concern me that it could potentially open up options where a player only needs to play 5 levels per life simply using an Iconic. It would cheapen the Completionist even more so than the XP stone.

I just hope if they do change this that they are careful in how they do this.

On the otherhand it might be nice to create more storage options available to players (probably purchase) to give them an alternative storage to TR Cache.

Miow
03-04-2015, 01:38 PM
I've had a few guildmates get caught by this even with it documented with Iconics as well as the Iconic Stone vs Epic Stone.

It is interesting to hear they are considering this change, but it does concern me that it could potentially open up options where a player only needs to play 5 levels per life simply using an Iconic. It would cheapen the Completionist even more so than the XP stone.

I just hope if they do change this that they are careful in how they do this.

On the otherhand it might be nice to create more storage options available to players (probably purchase) to give them an alternative storage to TR Cache.

Well said

UurlockYgmeov
03-04-2015, 01:43 PM
I know many have had this issue, run the iconic up to 28, ETR.....then only after you've emptied your TR cache and glutted up your inventory, you go to TR only to get told u must be 28

Once you've hit 28...the milestone required to TR as an iconic it should allow you to TR at any point after that.

I had a convo with a GM regarding this mechanic and he stated that it was something that they were considering revising in the future.

Please revise it.
Most people I know have gotten messed up because of this, I stopped playing for a month because of it myself

No.

That would give 2 past live feats for only doing half of the work. Iconics are from lv15 to lv28 (currently) and to be able to ER then TR isn't fair and this has been beaten to death back when reincarnation was revamped and IR/ER was introduced.

IR is exclusive - must be at CAP and then can come back as lv1 or lv15 (iconic or non-iconic). That is the point - else you would get a past life feat for going from 15 to 20 - and that just isn't fair, just or right.

unbongwah
03-04-2015, 01:48 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

Gljosh
03-04-2015, 02:20 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

This please this!!!! I have done a few Iconic TRs and currently have maxed out Martial and Primal spheres. Would love to drain that XP and pick up some more Epic Past Lives.

diodore
03-04-2015, 02:49 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

/signed

unbongwah, this is a great idea; an elegant simplification to the current reincarnation bureaucracy. (Honestly, have you ever tried to explain reincarnation options to a new player?) Please promote this idea however you can.

To summarize, TR and ITR would cost experience as they do now; ETR would cost karma only.

darkly_dreaming
03-04-2015, 03:05 PM
I just can't get on this band wagon. I've done 12 iconic past lives, and did a few epic TR's during the process. It was very clear from the beginning that it was an either/or proposition. You get to 28 and TR iconic, or you get to 28 and TR epic.

It's also been pretty well hashed out on these forums that if you want a 2-4-1 deal you do a Heroic life all the way to 28, then ETR and TR after.

diodore
03-04-2015, 03:11 PM
I just can't get on this band wagon.

Sorry, which bandwagon? There are two to choose from.

Munkenmo
03-04-2015, 03:35 PM
Iconics shouldn't get to TR directly after an ETR, people would abuse it for 5 level pastlives.

@ 28 the following needs to be done:

The current ITR gets renamed to Iconic Class TR - This one when used at 28 gives a class pastlife and iconic racial past life.
introduce another ITR called Iconic Karmic TR - This one when used at 28 will give an epic pastlife (resetting your chosen spheres karma) and the iconic racial past life.

Oxarhamar
03-04-2015, 04:23 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

This is a wonderful idea.

I approve

Alternative
03-04-2015, 04:31 PM
It should be possible to TR at any point after reaching level 28, and so what if you get a "free-ish" epic past life? For one you still need karma, and two there's already a sh*t ton of off destiny grind between epic past lives and fate points grind. I have 3 epic completionists, was considering making a fourth one but when I remembered the grind required to make a decent char it gave me nausea.

diodore
03-04-2015, 04:52 PM
Iconics shouldn't get to TR directly after an ETR, people would abuse it for 5 level pastlives.

To be clear, unbongwah's proposal does not enable the five-level-past-life abuse. An ITR would cost experience as needed to drop in level from cap to 15. A TR would cost experience as needed to drop in level from 20+ to 1. An ETR would cost karma only (as opposed to experience and karma). The only change would be to the cost of an ETR. Some virtues of the proposal are that

(1) it resolves the OP's issue that iconic TRs result in "orphaned" karma;
(2) it allows a person to grind out EPLs while at cap;
(3) it simplifies an overly complicated system.

Oxarhamar
03-04-2015, 04:56 PM
It should be possible to TR at any point after reaching level 28, and so what if you get a "free-ish" epic past life? For one you still need karma, and two there's already a sh*t ton of off destiny grind between epic past lives and fate points grind. I have 3 epic completionists, was considering making a fourth one but when I remembered the grind required to make a decent char it gave me nausea.

You can TR at any point beyond 20, you cannot ITR unless you are level 28, as it should be.

diodore
03-04-2015, 04:59 PM
You can TR at any point beyond 20, you cannot ITR unless you are level 28, as it should be.

Fixed, thank you.

RTFM
03-04-2015, 10:44 PM
This is Working as Intended, and although it may be a confusing at first, a simple reading of the wiki page explains it: http://ddowiki.com/page/Iconic_True_Reincarnation

The mechanics of this are pretty clear if you read in game messages as well. It is also clear if you have read release notes. The reason it is there is because simultaneous EPIC and ICONIC TR was probably seen as being getting too much too fast (three past life feats every iconic life). Also seems reasonable to me the way the current rules work.




I know many have had this issue, run the iconic up to 28, ETR.....then only after you've emptied your TR cache and glutted up your inventory, you go to TR only to get told u must be 28

Once you've hit 28...the milestone required to TR as an iconic it should allow you to TR at any point after that.

I had a convo with a GM regarding this mechanic and he stated that it was something that they were considering revising in the future.

Please revise it.
Most people I know have gotten messed up because of this, I stopped playing for a month because of it myself

Mithavenger
03-05-2015, 05:36 AM
I read all the comments so far as well as the original posters thoughts but l feel the system is fine how it is as l have done 36 ETR's, alot of my 35 heroics as Itr's and l have worked for all of those so just because you want to cheapen the process and make it easy too bad as those of us who worked for it all had to work for it and Itr's were made to require 28 for a reason. If you want to get your heroics it is simple enough to do the whole etr/htr way but itr's are not meant to be easy as they give 2 PL's each time for a reason and it isn't hard to farm out heart seeds and tokens so that isn't an issue either though and there are many ways to farm experience in the game so lack of quests or xp can't be used for an excuse

legendkilleroll
03-05-2015, 06:24 AM
I read all the comments so far as well as the original posters thoughts but l feel the system is fine how it is as l have done 36 ETR's, alot of my 35 heroics as Itr's and l have worked for all of those so just because you want to cheapen the process and make it easy too bad as those of us who worked for it all had to work for it and Itr's were made to require 28 for a reason. If you want to get your heroics it is simple enough to do the whole etr/htr way but itr's are not meant to be easy as they give 2 PL's each time for a reason and it isn't hard to farm out heart seeds and tokens so that isn't an issue either though and there are many ways to farm experience in the game so lack of quests or xp can't be used for an excuse

You have got to be kidding me, you worked for it? not gonna come out and say it, you should know what im refering to but you claiming that is a joke

diodore
03-05-2015, 06:52 AM
This is Working as Intended, and although it may be a confusing at first, a simple reading of the wiki page explains it: http://ddowiki.com/page/Iconic_True_Reincarnation

The mechanics of this are pretty clear if you read in game messages as well. It is also clear if you have read release notes. The reason it is there is because simultaneous EPIC and ICONIC TR was probably seen as being getting too much too fast (three past life feats every iconic life). Also seems reasonable to me the way the current rules work.

Okay, to the argument that a baroque system would be helpfully simplified, your reply is RTFM. But I would agree to disagree on this point.

What about the very reasonable idea that it would be a good thing if players could grind EPLs at cap? This would make it possible for more characters to stay at cap, happy in their best gear, while still making progress through karma. People wax nostalgic for the halcyon days of when cap was level 20. This change would be a step towards a socially cohesive endgame that people miss.

It seems to me that EPLs requiring marginally less grind to obtain is a small price to pay (to whom anyway?). I don't hear many people complaining these days that the past adjustments to the experience required to level to 20 vitiates their past accomplishments....

Bolo_Grubb
03-05-2015, 07:45 AM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

I like this idea

General_Gronker
03-05-2015, 12:05 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

That's a pretty solid idea. Near as I can tell, the dissenting voices in this thread all seem to be coming from a position of "Wah, you have to play my way!" Cheapen completionist? So what? If that even mattered (it does not), adding more classes and resetting it "cheapens" it far more than any of these ideas would.

Frankly, the game should be set up for people to quickly get to the part of the game they like playing the most. Be it low, mid, high, or epic levels. Having to struggle or grind for that is an outdated mentality that needs to be done away with. Period.

Karadon_II
03-05-2015, 12:39 PM
I agree that ER, TR, ITR etc. is a very confusing process and I was like "how the hell do I do this?"

Then it hit me - over 30 years ago I went to school and learnt to read, then as the years went by I learnt to ask complex questions of more knowledgeable folk - then I threw that away because someone invented Internet searches.

ANY mistake made in E/I/TRing is a direct result of: a) Research indolence, b) Reading Comprehension Fail c) Impatience

Ancient
03-05-2015, 02:28 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

Agreed!

Ancient
03-05-2015, 02:31 PM
The mechanics of this are pretty clear if you read in game messages as well. It is also clear if you have read release notes. The reason it is there is because simultaneous EPIC and ICONIC TR was probably seen as being getting too much too fast (three past life feats every iconic life). Also seems reasonable to me the way the current rules work.

ITR has an additional cost... wasted karma. The 6.6 milllion you gain goes into a destiny and you don't use it. Next life, you have to level. So you either throw away 6.6 million by leveling the same destiny... or you level a different destiny and find yourself in the same position next ETR.

Ancient
03-05-2015, 02:34 PM
Okay, to the argument that a baroque system would be helpfully simplified, your reply is RTFM. But I would agree to disagree on this point.

What about the very reasonable idea that it would be a good thing if players could grind EPLs at cap? This would make it possible for more characters to stay at cap, happy in their best gear, while still making progress through karma. People wax nostalgic for the halcyon days of when cap was level 20. This change would be a step towards a socially cohesive endgame that people miss.

It seems to me that EPLs requiring marginally less grind to obtain is a small price to pay (to whom anyway?). I don't hear many people complaining these days that the past adjustments to the experience required to level to 20 vitiates their past accomplishments....

Getting to grind ETRs and participate in end game raids would be great, and good for the game (by focusing the end-game population into a tighter level range). But there are a lot of vocal people who will hate that idea.

Gljosh
03-05-2015, 03:49 PM
Getting to grind ETRs and participate in end game raids would be great, and good for the game (by focusing the end-game population into a tighter level range). But there are a lot of vocal people who will hate that idea.

Wait did we just solve the "lack of end game" issue?

Powerhungry
03-05-2015, 06:28 PM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

The problem with this is while sitting at cap farming your 24M exp you would accumulate hundreds of seeds and never have to but a heart from the store (thus, they lose money). Heart seeds were added as an incentive to run at cap and the above proposal would abuse that.

Powerhungry
03-05-2015, 06:30 PM
ITR has an additional cost... wasted karma. The 6.6 milllion you gain goes into a destiny and you don't use it. Next life, you have to level. So you either throw away 6.6 million by leveling the same destiny... or you level a different destiny and find yourself in the same position next ETR.
That's the trade off for getting 2 PLs with one TR. You get an iconic and heroic PL for doing one ITR.

diodore
03-05-2015, 09:57 PM
The problem with this is while sitting at cap farming your 24M exp you would accumulate hundreds of seeds and never have to but a heart from the store (thus, they lose money). Heart seeds were added as an incentive to run at cap and the above proposal would abuse that.

It's really not hard to come up with alternative ways for Turbine to monetize the proposed set up (indeed, even more effectively than they do now).

unbongwah
03-06-2015, 08:21 AM
The problem with this is while sitting at cap farming your 24M exp you would accumulate hundreds of seeds and never have to but a heart from the store (thus, they lose money). Heart seeds were added as an incentive to run at cap and the above proposal would abuse that.
You can do that anyway in the current ER system, though; just farm up additional Heart Seeds for your future ERs while you're at level cap.

My idea reduces the amount of "wasted" XP grinding you need to do, but you still need 72M Karma for Epic Completionist, 216M for every EPL x3. So it's not like I'm magically making all the grind go away. :cool:

Gljosh
03-06-2015, 09:13 AM
The problem with this is while sitting at cap farming your 24M exp you would accumulate hundreds of seeds and never have to but a heart from the store (thus, they lose money). Heart seeds were added as an incentive to run at cap and the above proposal would abuse that.

Well you still have the 3 day reincarnation timer, I believe that covers Epic TRs. Turbine could sell the Reincarnation Timer Reset and be done with it.

Oxarhamar
03-06-2015, 11:34 AM
The problem with this is while sitting at cap farming your 24M exp you would accumulate hundreds of seeds and never have to but a heart from the store (thus, they lose money). Heart seeds were added as an incentive to run at cap and the above proposal would abuse that.

you think players are still buying Hearts after the seeds have been introduced? It takes 21 quests @ Cap to earn seeds for a Heart.

Lost revenue on Hearts is lost already.

Seeds were not added as an incentive to run @ cap they were added after much player feedback & Council pressure that the previous CoV farm was overkill.

Chai
03-06-2015, 04:47 PM
15-28 on an iconic is considered a heroic TR. That's likely why it is not allowing you to ETR than HTR after hitting 28 like you can on a non iconic who had to start at 1 and get to 28 before being able to do a ETR + HTR.

We already get an iconic and a heroic PL for doing 15-28 on an iconic. People are asking for all 3 heroic + iconic + epic?

And they never played non iconic characters again. The end.

diodore
03-07-2015, 09:47 AM
And they never played non iconic characters again. The end.

Hardly the end. This is far from self-evident.

And moreover, it's easy to come up with adjustments to ITR to prevent "abuse" even if the entire world decided that buying +1 LR hearts for each heroic PL was really worth it. For example, iconic PLs might require a certain number of levels in the appropriate class.

In any case, you've badly mischaracterized the intent of the proposal. unbongwah's proposed change is to *decouple* ETRs from HTRs and ITRs.

This would bring about major changes to the scene. If we want to debate the merits of the proposal, we should be focused on the consequences of helping players stay in the same level range (namely, at cap) where they can still progress by grinding EPLs. (This isn't exactly without precedent in the MMO world.)

Gljosh
03-09-2015, 10:48 AM
Hardly the end. This is far from self-evident.

And moreover, it's easy to come up with adjustments to ITR to prevent "abuse" even if the entire world decided that buying +1 LR hearts for each heroic PL was really worth it. For example, iconic PLs might require a certain number of levels in the appropriate class.

In any case, you've badly mischaracterized the intent of the proposal. unbongwah's proposed change is to *decouple* ETRs from HTRs and ITRs.

This would bring about major changes to the scene. If we want to debate the merits of the proposal, we should be focused on the consequences of helping players stay in the same level range (namely, at cap) where they can still progress by grinding EPLs. (This isn't exactly without precedent in the MMO world.)

Agreed, the ETR/ITR issue will get even worse with the impeding level 30 increase. 6 million to max out the "karma" but requires a roughly 10 million XP loss, with that both ETRs and ITR loss a lot of their value. 3.8 million versus 11.7 million.

Ancient
03-09-2015, 11:01 AM
Wait did we just solve the "lack of end game" issue?

No, because the idea will be shouted down by people with more serious issues such as protesting the mimic event, archers and calling for more nerfs to shiradi.

Chai
03-09-2015, 01:46 PM
Hardly the end. This is far from self-evident.

And moreover, it's easy to come up with adjustments to ITR to prevent "abuse" even if the entire world decided that buying +1 LR hearts for each heroic PL was really worth it. For example, iconic PLs might require a certain number of levels in the appropriate class.

In any case, you've badly mischaracterized the intent of the proposal. unbongwah's proposed change is to *decouple* ETRs from HTRs and ITRs.

This would bring about major changes to the scene. If we want to debate the merits of the proposal, we should be focused on the consequences of helping players stay in the same level range (namely, at cap) where they can still progress by grinding EPLs. (This isn't exactly without precedent in the MMO world.)

Why would someone play a regular race which includes levels 1-28 to do both heroic + epic TR if they can play an iconic which starts at 15 and goes to 28 to get heroic + epic + iconic TR?

It is quite, self evident. The iconic route would offer a lot more, for less investment, each life.

Decoupling ETRs from the hamster wheel does not entice people to pay to bypass said hamster wheel enough. Remember, many of these QOL changes are things people are charged to bypass. This was something suggested a lot in the past in threads asking to be able to play in main destiny more often.

diodore
03-09-2015, 05:28 PM
No, because the idea will be shouted down by people with more serious issues such as protesting the mimic event, archers and calling for more nerfs to shiradi.

Maybe we should consider starting a new thread later, one which features unbongwah's proposal as a way for players to make progress at cap. Because the idea came up here, people are overly focused on the ITR rules (which are of relatively minor interest and easy to adjust).

What we really want to be able to do is redeem surplus karma acquired while grinding or flower-sniffing at cap; and we think that it will make the game a better social experience.

The main debate should center on how Turbine could make more money than it does now under this model. Currently, a chunk of their revenue depends on players willing to pay to facilitate their grind to cap. We'd have to make the case that they could do even better with more characters concentrated at cap.

Of course, unlike with character balance, it's likely that the production team will not discuss these sorts of plans with us.

But to your concern, we may get a better discussion going after the rogue pass (and lag pass) has cooled down.

General_Gronker
03-09-2015, 06:46 PM
And they never played non iconic characters again. The end.
You're projecting what you would do onto the rest of us. Changes shouldn't be avoided because some people lack self-control when it comes to powergaming. Simple truth: iconics don't cover all the builds people want to play. The end.

Chai
03-11-2015, 08:46 AM
You're projecting what you would do onto the rest of us. Changes shouldn't be avoided because some people lack self-control when it comes to powergaming. Simple truth: iconics don't cover all the builds people want to play. The end.

No I am not. Im stating facts and drawing a conclusion based on them.

If 1-28 = ETR + HTR, why should 15-28 = HTR + ETR + ITR?

Give us a good logical reason why the reward should be more for less investment.

IronClan
03-11-2015, 10:26 AM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

This is an excellent idea and I suggested something similar on the PC.

I also would like to see "karma" in each sphere become a pool of karma that gets added to no matter what Destiny you happen to be in. You still need to level all your ED's to get them filled out and get the Fate points, but once you are done with this slow and boring task you can then spend the rest of your characters ETR journey playing the Destiny you designed your character to play in.

IronClan
03-11-2015, 10:31 AM
You can do that anyway in the current ER system, though; just farm up additional Heart Seeds for your future ERs while you're at level cap.

My idea reduces the amount of "wasted" XP grinding you need to do, but you still need 72M Karma for Epic Completionist, 216M for every EPL x3. So it's not like I'm magically making all the grind go away. :cool:

Farm? Why would anyone Farm heart seeds? I have over 200 just from having a few alts getting Orchard gear... "farm" is often a euphemism for: doing it the most inefficient possible way because you could be getting XP and loot while you get the thing you're farming for, but instead of just playing the game normally you divide up the tasks and "farm" getting XP ransack and probably already having the loot, instead of multitasking and getting all three over the same course of time...

Stop dividing gameplay into smaller single minded tasks people, you'll be happier for it.

Truely the most effective and efficient way to play DDO these days is to play NORMALLY like you would WANT TO if you didn't reduce the gameplay into unfun repetition chores, or farming for one thing at a time. This is one way in which I think DDO has only improved over the last couple years... XP ransack, Saga's, first time completion bonuses.... Farming is an outmoded thing that people who don't know better subject themselves to.

Gljosh
03-11-2015, 10:50 AM
No I am not. Im stating facts and drawing a conclusion based on them.

If 1-28 = ETR + HTR, why should 15-28 = HTR + ETR + ITR?

Give us a good logical reason why the reward should be more for less investment.

Because you have to pay for Iconics, does that work? Iconics are a premium game add on and thus benefit from that premium.

Gljosh
03-11-2015, 10:57 AM
Farm? Why would anyone Farm heart seeds? I have over 200 just from having a few alts getting Orchard gear... "farm" is often a euphemism for: doing it the most inefficient possible way because you could be getting XP and loot while you get the thing you're farming for, but instead of just playing the game normally you divide up the tasks and "farm" getting XP ransack and probably already having the loot, instead of multitasking and getting all three over the same course of time...

Stop dividing gameplay into smaller single minded tasks people, you'll be happier for it.

Truely the most effective and efficient way to play DDO these days is to play NORMALLY like you would WANT TO if you didn't reduce the gameplay into unfun repetition chores, or farming for one thing at a time. This is one way in which I think DDO has only improved over the last couple years... XP ransack, Saga's, first time completion bonuses.... Farming is an outmoded thing that people who don't know better subject themselves to.

Wait...you can only get Heart Seeds (without the 100 comms) by running quests at max level, so you can only get two out of the three. Also, you mentioned running alts in orchards for "gear" that sounds a lot like farming. I tend to run high xp quests that are short and ones that have Sagas because of limited gameplay time. Thus trying to maximize XP/min and balance out the XP gained versus what is needed in a sphere to ETR for that bonus.

TrinityTurtle
03-11-2015, 11:02 AM
Wait...you can only get Heart Seeds (without the 100 comms) by running quests at level, so you can only get two out of the three. Also, you mentioned running alts in orchards for "gear" that sounds a lot like farming. I tend to run high xp quests that are short and ones that have Sagas because of limited gameplay time. Thus trying to maximize XP/min and balance out the XP gained versus what is needed in a sphere to ETR for that bonus.

Incorrect. YOu get heart seeds by running ANY epic quest, from Carnival to Epic Orchard, at level 28. But you can still gain the xp for your destinies if you didn't spend an insame amount of hours farming rusted blades for them. So you can get loot, xp, and seeds altogether, it's possible.

mikarddo
03-11-2015, 11:23 AM
Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

Assuming your suggestion it would be:

Scenario A:
- Make Iconic
- Level from 15 to 28
- ITR (earning Iconic PL and Heroic PL)
- Make either non-iconic or iconic
- Level to 20
- ETR (earning Epic PL)
Effect: 3 past lives gained and (almost) all karma used.

Scenario B:
- Make non-Iconic
- Level from 1 to 28
- ETR + HTR (earning Epic PL and Heroic PL)
- Make either non-iconic or iconic
- Level to 20
- (nothing here)
Effect: 2 past lives gained and (almost) all karma used.

Thus with your suggestion the iconic route earns you an additional past life for less effort (leveling 15 to 28 rather than 1 to 28).

Sorry, but the present system simply makes much more sense. Infact, I consider the present system to be very well balanced when it comes to ITR vs ETR. If anything I would advocate only needing 5m or even 4m karma to ETR to allow more flexibility in running in different spheres.