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Phanes
02-21-2015, 10:59 AM
So I just made 20 and now when I go to zone into a dungeon I get to choose of Epic or Heroic. I get the basics of it Epic is better loot harder mobs etc. However is there a penalty for doing Heroic instead? The reason why I ask is because I am still farming PDK tokens and doing the dungeons on Heroic mode is easier/faster to say finish a quest chain like Druid Curse. Does continuing to run Heroic Mode hurt my Epic Destinies or anything of that nature?


THanks

Sehenry03
02-21-2015, 11:04 AM
Epic is what you will most likely start doing now simply because it gives a lot more xp.

For farming the comms or tokens do whichever is easier for you.

It doesn't hurt to do heroic nor does epic give any better favor.

Simply more xp and valor comms as rewards also.

Phanes
02-21-2015, 11:22 AM
Yeah I decided to try two runs on Heroic Normal for Druid's Curse and then two runs on Epic Normal. I know HN will be much faster but I will probably only get the 3 tokens in the end.

FuzzyDuck81
02-26-2015, 03:52 AM
One big difference is in the favour - heroic elite will give more favour than epic hard or epic normal, so doing HE runs when overlevel can be a good bet sometimes - you'll lose out on bravery bonus though.

Also, occasionally due to the way certain things scale, it's actually possible for HE to be harder than EN or EH, particularly when they're at the top end of the heroic levels, or as me & a guildy discovered, when trying to get the optional in ghosts of perdition HE for the shield piece & were unable to do it on capped epic characters vs. merely getting the quest completion.

arkonas
02-26-2015, 07:00 AM
One big difference is in the favour - heroic elite will give more favour than epic hard or epic normal, so doing HE runs when overlevel can be a good bet sometimes - you'll lose out on bravery bonus though.

Also, occasionally due to the way certain things scale, it's actually possible for HE to be harder than EN or EH, particularly when they're at the top end of the heroic levels, or as me & a guildy discovered, when trying to get the optional in ghosts of perdition HE for the shield piece & were unable to do it on capped epic characters vs. merely getting the quest completion.

or you could do them at level that have heroic levels get the bravery so you don't have to worry about bravery in epic :) if its too hard then go into epic levels then come back

Bluegirl_Two
02-28-2015, 05:57 AM
If you are running quests for the first time and have the option of running them on epic or heroic it is almost always better to streak on epic if you can.

Many people can streak elite on heroic but not on epic. But, it is still better XP to drop back to a hard streak on epic if you can manage it.

You will normally be over level if you run the quest on its heroic version. If you are trying to preserve a streak but cannot complete the quest at that difficulty (say an elite streak but cannot do the quest on epic elite) then you might want to run the quest heroic elite. The problem I find is that this then becomes the norm and you very seldom actually get the streak bonus -- something that is fairly common if you solo a lot and pug rarely.

So, I find it is better to accept the hard streak instead since most of the time I find that if I can solo heroic elite I can solo epic hard.

Regardless, I go eventually and do the heroic elite run for the favor.

Edit: BTW, as long as you are earning XP it will apply to gaining epic levels regardless of whether the quest setting is epic or heroic. Same with destinies -- as long as you earn XP it will add to your current destiny. It never "hurts" except in the sense that if you get 0 XP you didn't gain anything -- but you won't go backwards or lose anything.

PsychoBlonde
03-03-2015, 06:14 PM
So I just made 20 and now when I go to zone into a dungeon I get to choose of Epic or Heroic. I get the basics of it Epic is better loot harder mobs etc. However is there a penalty for doing Heroic instead? The reason why I ask is because I am still farming PDK tokens and doing the dungeons on Heroic mode is easier/faster to say finish a quest chain like Druid Curse. Does continuing to run Heroic Mode hurt my Epic Destinies or anything of that nature?


THanks

The *real* basics are that epic quests are level 20 or above on normal difficulty while heroic quests are levels 1-19 (on normal difficulty--they can be higher on hard and elite and still not count as an "epic" quest). Epics are harder and give better loot because they're *higher-level* quests, just like a level 12 quest gives better rewards than a level 4 quest.

So, why is there an epic/heroic split at all? Well, that depends on whether you're talking about the split between heroic and epic levels for *characters* or for *quests*. Epic levels for characters work entirely differently from heroic levels--you have access to destinies, and you just get generic "epic levels" that grant generic bonuses instead of more levels of a specific class. The reason why (some) quests have an epic and heroic version is simply because epics were first introduced to the game as higher-level versions of preexisting heroic quests. (This was back when the level cap was 20 and epics were kind of an optional Ubergamer Ultragrind thing.) And, since it was an established method, they keep on doing it that way, really as a method for getting twice as much content that's accessible to twice as many people out of the same amount of design work. Which is fine.

As for why the system is like this AT ALL . . . that's a result of pen and paper D&D being originally designed for 20 levels, with epic stuff tacked on later in, let's admit it, kind of a weird way. They decided to do the same thing here because, again, DDO was very strongly GEARED toward that 20 level design. So, yeah, it's a bizarre system that really only is the way it is because of Precedent. It works once you get used to it. If you look at it from purely a design standpoint, though, it's pretty dang weird.

Oh, and as for your questions--you getting XP and stuff is purely based off the relationship between your character's numerical level and the level of the quest, regardless of which difficulty you do it on, so you can do level 18 quests on elite at level 20 and even still get BB and all that.

HOWEVER . . . once you start actually doing epic quests they "count" as being 2 levels higher for the purpose of BB, so you can still get BB doing level 20 quests up until level 24 and so forth. IIRC there's no "over-level" penalty for grouping in epic quests, either, so you can freely group with level 28 people even as a level 20 character and not get "over-leveled".

SirValentine
03-05-2015, 04:55 PM
It's also quest-dependent. What level is it on Heroic, versus on Epic?

For a quest that's level 19 Heroic versus level 27 Epic, you're probably better off in the Heroic version, if you're new to the level 20+ arena. On the other hand, if it's a quest that's level 5 Heroic versus level 20 on Epic, there's not much point (or fun or challenge or reward) in doing the Heroic.