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Nuclear_Elvis
02-16-2015, 09:25 PM
This suggestion is not specifically aimed at game Developer/Execs, I say it to the entire DDO community:

- New Player Retention is Our Responsibility.

Without Player Retention, the game withers and dies in time. I am crossing paths continually with new-to-game players, those who have just installed the game and dabbling in DDO for the first time. Oddly enough, many show up in Wayfinder server where I currently play the most, even though Wayfinder is the last server listed among all options (which may have its own ironic appeal).

New-to-game players are often in need of much more than the current tutorial provides them. And I know - some of you highly/self-motivated players don't cater to many of these new players, and you may think that the new players must go through the same trials as you did. Consider though, the game as it currently exists vice when DDO was new(er) when you first installed, with fewer systems (less crafting, less diversity in FTP/Prem/VIP, Heroic vs Epic, TR etc).

One task I specifically have to run many new-to-game players through upon graduating to The Harbor - doing a "Bag Run" to get 4 x free bags and a Wide Quiver to help them with Inventory Management. My opinion, this could/should be considered a Tutorial II for players to take on optionally upon entry to Harbor (but that could be a PC2015 issue).

What are your thoughts on Player Retention, especially New Player retention? Without new players being retained, the game won't thrive, in my opinion, and even if you want a totally solo game life here, it is still in your interests to help with this since the game's mere existence may ride on it.

Thoughts/criticism?
NE

Monkey-Boy
02-16-2015, 09:27 PM
Unless I'm paid none of this is my responsibility.

Rofaust
02-16-2015, 09:51 PM
I occasionally visit korthos to pass out fullplate to clerics, fighters and pallys and toss a couple hundred thousand plat to level one and two adventurer builds I see; but I don't see doing any of it as an obligation. I don't think that this is our job as players even though it certainly helps us in the long run. It's nice to help new people but to expect us to I don't think is fair. Devs get paid. The responsibility should fall on them, not us. We pay for the privilege to play, have fun and forget about the responsibilities of real life for a while, so I don't think they should intrude on the game and cause us to take on the personal burden of keeping the game afloat, carrying the weight of the new. If you want to help - great. You're a good person. But it's beyond the call of a good Samaritan's duty to take responsibility for the actions and education of new players who might not even be planning to stay. You can teach your friends but you can't instill your diehard love of ddo in them when they're not that in to it. I've learned that the hard way.

Rofaust
02-16-2015, 09:57 PM
That said, if you wanted to build a coalition to help new players I would be glad to join. The bulk of my toon infrastructure is on Sarlona (Maxed Cannith crafting, personal guild and ship, 40+ toons), you can send mail to my main toon Rofaust if you want.

Amundir
02-16-2015, 10:00 PM
Not our responsibility. Should everyone behave in a manner in which new players don't stick around and the game dries up and ends. Guess what? Next day, your still breathing. Every day above ground is a great day.
Your taking the GAME way to seriously.

I keep thinking of an article I read some where that I really wish I could find. Talks about one of the psychological tricks of MMOs and online games is to get the players to spend money, even a little, to increase the time they spend in the game. Because it is a psycological factor that the more time or money you spend on an activity, the more likely you are to attribute a higher sense of worth and purpose to the activity, simply due to having spent the time and money on it.

But in reality, not important at all.

Monkey-Boy
02-16-2015, 10:01 PM
That said, if you wanted to build a coalition to help new players I would be glad to join. The bulk of my toon infrastructure is on Sarlona (Maxed Cannith crafting, personal guild and ship, 40+ toons), you can send mail to my main toon Rofaust if you want.

Doesn't every server have a few of 'those' guilds that handle this already?

Rofaust
02-16-2015, 10:26 PM
Doesn't every server have a few of 'those' guilds that handle this already?

If that's the case then it's a solution without a problem lol

skorpeon
02-17-2015, 02:24 AM
This suggestion is not specifically aimed at game Developer/Execs, I say it to the entire DDO community:

- New Player Retention is Our Responsibility.

Without Player Retention, the game withers and dies in time. I am crossing paths continually with new-to-game players, those who have just installed the game and dabbling in DDO for the first time. Oddly enough, many show up in Wayfinder server where I currently play the most, even though Wayfinder is the last server listed among all options (which may have its own ironic appeal).

New-to-game players are often in need of much more than the current tutorial provides them. And I know - some of you highly/self-motivated players don't cater to many of these new players, and you may think that the new players must go through the same trials as you did. Consider though, the game as it currently exists vice when DDO was new(er) when you first installed, with fewer systems (less crafting, less diversity in FTP/Prem/VIP, Heroic vs Epic, TR etc).

One task I specifically have to run many new-to-game players through upon graduating to The Harbor - doing a "Bag Run" to get 4 x free bags and a Wide Quiver to help them with Inventory Management. My opinion, this could/should be considered a Tutorial II for players to take on optionally upon entry to Harbor (but that could be a PC2015 issue).

What are your thoughts on Player Retention, especially New Player retention? Without new players being retained, the game won't thrive, in my opinion, and even if you want a totally solo game life here, it is still in your interests to help with this since the game's mere existence may ride on it.

Thoughts/criticism?
NE

Having played games that have died I see it is also our responsibility to help retain new players. Just opening up some groups and making contact with new players when in Korthos would be a big deal for a new player. Many of us remember the first few quests and the errors we made. Not knowing about or being afraid to group can make many adventurers struggle to complete early quests.

The problem is learning all those little things like how to get a hire, how to use a LFM, really a lot of basic stuff. Have you tried to introduce a friend to this game and explain how things work during the first session. Telling you what its quite a big daunting task. Not so bad if you have actually played D&D I guess.

Still if we took a bit more time to meet new players in Korthos of the harbour as we zerg through maybe we might help retain a handful of new people. Personally as I play EU evenings I think we need these people to help out with raids and to keep the wheels turning in DDO.

lyrecono
02-17-2015, 05:20 AM
Doesn't every server have a few of 'those' guilds that handle this already?

The problem with some of these guilds is that it acts as a intellectual inbreeding cesspool where some of the weirdest idea's circulate.

though i play mostly on the tr hamsterwheel and the so called endgame i often picked up newbies back in the day and mentored them into shape.
These days, with the lack of new people i seem to fulfill the role of mentor mostly to returning players, most of who leave within 2 months.

Uska
02-17-2015, 07:05 AM
Not our responsibility. Should everyone behave in a manner in which new players don't stick around and the game dries up and ends. Guess what? Next day, your still breathing. Every day above ground is a great day.
Your taking the GAME way to seriously.

I keep thinking of an article I read some where that I really wish I could find. Talks about one of the psychological tricks of MMOs and online games is to get the players to spend money, even a little, to increase the time they spend in the game. Because it is a psycological factor that the more time or money you spend on an activity, the more likely you are to attribute a higher sense of worth and purpose to the activity, simply due to having spent the time and money on it.

But in reality, not important at all.

Wrong if you enjoy the game and want continue playing it then it's extremly important. Also most people feel good about helping others feel good and have fun at least I do in game and out in the real world maybe it's why I am a good salesman

Amundir
02-17-2015, 07:16 AM
Wrong if you enjoy the game and want continue playing it then it's extremly important. Also most people feel good about helping others feel good and have fun at least I do in game and out in the real world maybe it's why I am a good salesman

Then if so you have applied importance TO it. It in, and of itself, is not important.
Which is perfectly fine. If you have a need in your life, such as to relax and have some decompression time, or maybe your life is laid back and you want some competition time, or some form of socializing, a game may fit the bill. But the game is not what is important. It is what it does for you. Which other things, including one of the multitude of other games, could also possibly do for you.

I think it is important to realize this. Helps you deal with the marketing bs that surrounds us everywhere. No offense meant to you salesman, :P

Kawai
02-17-2015, 07:46 AM
Helping others is a Trait.
-not a responsibility.

Retaining players falls on Player Retention Representative's.

u can "help" & "hand-hold" players all u want.
:| i do.
However, it wont make much, if any, difference when it comes to retaining their interest.

something else as well....
too much help makes players soft, & leans toward not investing enough into it themselves.

Magil
02-17-2015, 10:52 AM
I've tried to bring people to DDO in the past. They don't stick around. I've also had people who would make it to about level 8-10 and quit anyway. Some of the biggest complaints I've seen include...

> Too much grinding.
> Parties hard to fill.
> Money issues.
> Lack of overall story.

Depending on your server, parties tend to be more guild oriented, rather than through the social panel. I once set up a party for elite Korthos. I was level 3 at the time. No takers. I sat there for a while. One was on a Friday night, and the other was the next day in the afternoon.

Outside of maybe a one-time purchase to unlock premium, many players are free-to-play oriented. Browser games are also becoming far more popular. Most of them were turned off by having to pay not only a subscription for quick access to the entire game, but having to shell out a much larger one-time only purchase of the expansions too.

Grind is two-fold. First, everyone has a few items they've been trying to get and it just won't drop. Second, you have one grind to get the 25 Turbine Points from favor and the first time bonuses. Eventually, people get bored of one or the other and either quits searching for the item entirely, waiting and trying again after a reincarnation, or just gives up the game because they can't afford to scrape together the money to buy packs.

Some players were disappointed in the lack of some sort of overall story. "Half the game is just going from one person to another." Most of the stories are in adventure packs, which you have to pay for, and I've already mentioned that not everyone wants or can spend money on the game. On top of that, you might need a team to go through in order to see it, and even then, you may not get to actually read anything because someone's gone off ahead and rushed through the dialogue. The might let you read, but then you get complaints about taking too long to do so and everyone's ship buffs are running low.

Sure, there are things we can do, but at the end of the day, DDO isn't for everyone. But there are aspects of the game that drive people away, that the players cannot help.

Edit: So while I do agree, and I do what I can, there are limitations on how much we can actually do.

MisterCanoeHead
02-17-2015, 12:10 PM
I try to help new players when I have the time or the patience, but I'm not a full time nanny or babysitter. It's not the players of DDO who have the responsibility to bring in or retain new players, that is Turbines job, and frankly, it's most important one.

If Turbine wants to start paying me to dedicate more of my time to being a new player greeter/leader/guide then it would be my responsibility, but as it stands my time is my own.

Turbine is a company, owned by an even larger corporation, it's not a charity or a church. If they can't manage to maintain their own game it's no ones fault but their own.

Psiandron
02-17-2015, 12:37 PM
I agree with your sentiment that it's in our own best interest to help and encourage new players so that they stay in the game, I disagree that it is our 'responsibility'.

Saekee
02-17-2015, 12:47 PM
Actually players do a lot. there is the smithy guild, the new player intro video (Axel?), myriads of suggestions by forumites that we know will help them (for example, I posted a thread for a Harbor saga to aid new layers with getting a handle on that place), the wiki itself is an ongoing, player-created guide, etc
I think you might wish for more direct actions like some of the thoughtful examples above--like others said, it is a gift not responsibility

Ancient
02-17-2015, 01:01 PM
What are your thoughts on Player Retention, especially New Player retention? Without new players being retained, the game won't thrive, in my opinion, and even if you want a totally solo game life here, it is still in your interests to help with this since the game's mere existence may ride on it.

While "responsibility" might be too strong a word, I am 100% in agreement that the player community has a huge impact on the health and survival of the game. Here are some of my thoughts:

1.) It is rough to make it to the end-game. My main toon is still in the ETR loop and I haven't even started the heroic TR loop. Even with iconics starting at level 15, there is a very long grind for a new player before they can even join where the active end game is at. This is a barrier to keeping and retaining new players.

2.) The forums revamp is completely backwards. For me, one of the best aspects of the game is the flexibility in character builds. To find these in the forums, you have to dive into the class forums... make the decision if the build will be under a specific class, multi-class or custom character builds forums then hunt down the thread. Unlike the large number of top level forums that have game enabling posts like "I'm quitting again and this time I really mean it", "This new thing... is bad", "Play the game my way dangit" and "DDO is dying? Part 9482".

Builds posts are part of what entices me (and players like me). I don't particularly like playing melee characters... but after reading the steel shrine, I took a time out from my ETR loop just to play a pally life and try it out. It was different and fun. I have made throwers, staff users and several other characters just to try something out that looked fun in the forums. Reading about others ideas helps me come up with new build ideas of my own. I think it would be a good idea for Turbine to make it easier to post builds and promote those public builds with a little something every now and then.

Zephea
02-17-2015, 01:19 PM
Thoughts/criticism?
NE

Have you played with any brand new players lately?

People who are responding things like giving things brand new players in Korthos ... well you can't. Unless you roll up a character that doesn't leave the Korthos area.

My suggestion: invite brand new players into your guild. *Listen* to them. Then post back.

Here's the thing, I have game knowledge. If I run up a brand new character through Korthos or the harbor I run through it all fairly fast. A brand new player is still coming to grips with the game mechanics including in some cases basic movement. For me it is *boring* to play with these brand new players - and in fairness to them they don't want to play with me as I will ruin their learning experience. They won't learn if they are still in the first room and I complete the quest.

Do I think they are stupid and slow?

Of course not. Some of these people have a better grasp of character creation, game mechanics, and game play than I have. Some have been playing pnp for years and wanted to try out this D&D game. Some have been playing at top level in other MMOs and wanted to try out an MMO that they haven't yet tried. They just don't yet know DDO.

Everything I have typed above are statements of the obvious.

The question we want to answer are : What are their breaking points for why they don't bother continuing?

Here are some guesses:
1. No one to play with and the game to hard/painful to learn by yourself.
2. Lack of friendliness and inclusiveness in lfms. But, see points above.
3. Expectations from other games - graphics, heavily instanced areas, 'mana' shrines resource management in quests.
4. Complexity of setting up the GUI - eg a lot of players take a while to realise you can pull out the different resistances off the spell and put them individually on the hotbar.
5. Not knowing where to aim for or where to go next - other games have clearer paths and areas to be in if you are a particular level and here it's all mixed in
6. Different weapons for different monsters and different effects - getting good plus ghost bane on shadow skeles in Delera's?
7. Fix up the level 1 starter character templates.

Here are my responses to some of those guesses (ideas borrowed from other things posted - my thanks to those who posted first):
1. There is a long tradition of rubbishing starter harbor guilds. Stop it. It is not helpful. They serve a purpose if they are run well.
2. Part of this is moving from general chat which no one watches and is instanced per area and moving it to a userchannel arrangement - seriously if they could default a userchannel called 'starter' or something that might help.
3. Manage expectations carefully from information given straight away. Yes people are shown a mana shrine - but I think this needs to be compared and contrasted so it is more clear how things work in DDO. There are great benefits to heavy instancing and these need to be pointed out.
4. I run "/ui layout load mylayoutname " each time I TR. Which tells me it wouldn't be hard to have a better default GUI than now. But really just a video showing how to use it would help - and I seriously do mean a visual instruction video given on the island showing a number of basic features. In game.
5. Love the Neverwinter sparkle trails but that concept could be too prescriptive for here. Someone suggested a bulletin board type thing that would update with options of what you could do now tailored for what the character is up to. The quest journal could be fixed - much better descriptions for where exactly the quest giver is and where the quest is. Even now that bugs me from time to time when I haven't done a quest for a while and can't remember where it is. I mean seriously if I'm having problems what about a new player? I would also like the new players forum freshened up and some of the pinned threads freshened up.
6. Well when the fix random loot maybe they'll address this. Seriously the last pass was terrible. The original SD pass was great although the inclusion of things like ghostbane were needed it was introduced in such a poor way.
7. Yes well they've promised this for years.


So... there is a lot here we can't do and are dependent on DDO staff to take a lead on. Wait and see I guess. It's their game. If they want it to survive I imagine they make some efforts regarding this.

Magil
02-17-2015, 04:11 PM
The question we want to answer are : What are their breaking points for why they don't bother continuing?

Here are some guesses:
1. No one to play with and the game to hard/painful to learn by yourself.
2. Lack of friendliness and inclusiveness in lfms. But, see points above.
3. Expectations from other games - graphics, heavily instanced areas, 'mana' shrines resource management in quests.
4. Complexity of setting up the GUI - eg a lot of players take a while to realise you can pull out the different resistances off the spell and put them individually on the hotbar.
5. Not knowing where to aim for or where to go next - other games have clearer paths and areas to be in if you are a particular level and here it's all mixed in
6. Different weapons for different monsters and different effects - getting good plus ghost bane on shadow skeles in Delera's?
7. Fix up the level 1 starter character templates.

1. The Grotto really is kind of... Minimal, isn't it? I have met a lot of people who have trouble with the swimming. I think it's primarily because so few find out about the mouselook. Some games bring up a screen showing basic controls when you start off.
2. I mentioned part of this in my previous post, but it seems most of the parties are being made from high population guilds.
4. I have 10 hotbars on mine whenever I play. I am still hoping to one day get a much nicer layout for it. Between skills, spells, feats, equipment and consumables, it's just crazy. You do kinda go through a lot of stuff on here.
7. These really could use an overhaul. As well as a name change on some of them to match current standards for the current game. Many new players go through these, and the Revisiting Paths thread is out of date now by a fair bit. There are plenty of very popular builds on the forum that could be inserted into these. I remember my first Paladin and Sorcerer were on the premade paths. It was a THF path, but I used S&B and my Sorcerer was an Arcane Cannon.

Sehenry03
02-17-2015, 04:55 PM
This suggestion is not specifically aimed at game Developer/Execs, I say it to the entire DDO community:

- New Player Retention is Our Responsibility.

Without Player Retention, the game withers and dies in time. I am crossing paths continually with new-to-game players, those who have just installed the game and dabbling in DDO for the first time. Oddly enough, many show up in Wayfinder server where I currently play the most, even though Wayfinder is the last server listed among all options (which may have its own ironic appeal).

New-to-game players are often in need of much more than the current tutorial provides them. And I know - some of you highly/self-motivated players don't cater to many of these new players, and you may think that the new players must go through the same trials as you did. Consider though, the game as it currently exists vice when DDO was new(er) when you first installed, with fewer systems (less crafting, less diversity in FTP/Prem/VIP, Heroic vs Epic, TR etc).

One task I specifically have to run many new-to-game players through upon graduating to The Harbor - doing a "Bag Run" to get 4 x free bags and a Wide Quiver to help them with Inventory Management. My opinion, this could/should be considered a Tutorial II for players to take on optionally upon entry to Harbor (but that could be a PC2015 issue).

What are your thoughts on Player Retention, especially New Player retention? Without new players being retained, the game won't thrive, in my opinion, and even if you want a totally solo game life here, it is still in your interests to help with this since the game's mere existence may ride on it.

Thoughts/criticism?
NE

So I see 2 ways of looking at this...

1) We as players want the game to succeed for a long time. We don't want to see if get to the point WB shuts it down. We know Turbine is gonna have a minimal budget for new player sub's and actively getting new players. We decide to take it on ourselves to try to get new players into the game and show them around and give them some help. We help them with leveling while we are leveling our own TR's. We might take a few under our wing and show them things they wouldn't normally be able to see or wouldn't have any idea where to start. It does take time but we do it knowing Turbine can't/won't do this. We feel that maybe if we get some more subs maybe it will get even more people interested. Word of mouth might spread. We know Turbine won't help us and we know lots of players in the game could care less. Examples of those of us trying to help.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454409-Offering-help-for-Vets-and-New-players
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453919-New-Players-Watch-This-Video
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455773-Free-stuff-for-new-players-on-Thelanis
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455515-Hey-newbies-of-Sarlona
While I don't expect everyone to suddenly drop everything I do think if WE want DDO to last a long time then we do need to put a little effort into this. No we do NOT have a responsibility in the exact sense of the word...we will be determining how long DDO lasts by our own actions.

2) We pay a monthly fee or we paid a small fee to get premier status or we don't pay a penny but play it for free...we all have the same basic requirements for the game...which is nothing. Nothing is our responsibility because we are simply following the rules. There is nothing wrong in that. The game will last as long as WB decides before they pull the plug and most likely nothing we do will change that. All are very valid arguments and again no one is required to help a new player get into the game or help them with gear or help them learn the game. It is truly not our responsibility.

I personally go with the first argument. What I find sad is the amount of people with the me me me attitude who say its not my problem. Well yeah it kind of is. The game already has lots of lag issues. Its old. Lots of competition out there. There are a lot of reasons for a new player to NOT want to stay and we know Turbine is either not able or not willing to work on any of these issues. There are a lot of new players trying out the game. I have help quite a few over the last month. Some are still playing as Premium. Some are still playing as ViP. But at least they are still playing. If every one of us could get just ONE new person to stay because we went out of our way to do it...how much better off would we be? Tons of new people playing. Yes they would be new but they would be veterans before long. We would have a whole new level of LFM's if we helped them learn the game. Yes this might be a bit overboard but simply saying I don't want to baby a new player along...they will learn we are just trying to help them take care of themselves. EVERYONE in this game was new at some time or another and SOMEONE helped us at some point. Its kinda sad so many people now just focus on epic stuff and refuse to think of the players just starting.

Nuclear_Elvis
02-18-2015, 11:56 PM
I appreciate the responses so far, but clearly some clarification of wording is in order. "Our" is a collective term, and it wasn't pointed at any one individual here singularly, nor was it only pointed at Players -- the "Our" includes the entire DDO community to include the Turbine/DDO Dev's as well (please re-read my post and you'll see this).

"Responsibility" definition from Websters--
": the state of being the person who caused something to happen

: a duty or task that you are required or expected to do

: something that you should do because it is morally right, legally required, etc."

Not all aspects of the definition apply, but feel free to read between the lines (or on the line!) here.

Here's an analogy for you. Team-sports. Basketball. Free YMCA court down the street. You want to play ball, but the YMCA will close if the gymnasium does not have enough participation and there is also risk of closure due to potential negative activity that has occurred in/around the basketball court. You show up, sign a paper to prove you're there, pay no money, play ball with 9 other people (it's a 5 on 5 game, after all). You play fair, the others play fair, some players were newbs, some experienced, all is well, YMCA stays open another week.

You show up the next week. Teammate offends other players (or ball-hogs or ignores all other 4 players on his team), you don't confront the offending teammate, so as result the other players walk off the court, game over, not enough players for 5 on 5, so everyone goes home. Similar thing happens the next week, except this time there's player(s) breaking the rules without owning up to it, and you do nothing again, and as result players leave the court again. You could help gather some players up to play ball during the week but decide to wait until the next weekend. You try to go back, but the YMCA closed due to lack of use.

It was only a team sport, and you were just there for free. Sure, you didn't lose money, but you have lost something, and that something had value to you. Others may have lost something as well.

Who's responsibility was it to help keep the YMCA open - only the donors? YMCA management?

Lonnbeimnech
02-19-2015, 12:33 AM
My main problem with running into new players is the fact that korthos is split into snowy and sunny. I see them in chat and I can offer some help, but actually running with them, just doesn't happen.

Nuclear_Elvis
02-19-2015, 12:56 AM
My main problem with running into new players is the fact that korthos is split into snowy and sunny. I see them in chat and I can offer some help, but actually running with them, just doesn't happen.

See my technique and solutions here in this other linked thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455946-DDO-and-New-Players-To-the-Devs!?p=5543008&viewfull=1#post5543008).

gravisrs
02-19-2015, 05:21 AM
One rule we can start with: Stop calling noobs noobs.

MisterCanoeHead
02-19-2015, 09:03 AM
"responsibility" definition from websters--
": The state of being the person who caused something to happen

: A duty or task that you are required or expected to do

: Something that you should do because it is morally right, legally required, etc."

None of the definitions apply, but feel free to read between the lines (or on the line!) here.



ftfy

Impaqt
02-19-2015, 10:21 AM
I appreciate the responses so far, but clearly some clarification of wording is in order. "Our" is a collective term, and it wasn't pointed at any one individual here singularly, nor was it only pointed at Players -- the "Our" includes the entire DDO community to include the Turbine/DDO Dev's as well (please re-read my post and you'll see this).

"Responsibility" definition from Websters--
": the state of being the person who caused something to happen

: a duty or task that you are required or expected to do

: something that you should do because it is morally right, legally required, etc."

Not all aspects of the definition apply, but feel free to read between the lines (or on the line!) here.


I commend you for your attitude, but no matter what way you slice it, you are wrong. I do what I can to help new players. but I have no responsibility to do so. It is Turbines responsibility to provide a game and an environment that attracts and entices new players to the game.



Here's an analogy for you. Team-sports. Basketball. Free YMCA court down the street. You want to play ball, but the YMCA will close if the gymnasium does not have enough participation and there is also risk of closure due to potential negative activity that has occurred in/around the basketball court. You show up, sign a paper to prove you're there, pay no money, play ball with 9 other people (it's a 5 on 5 game, after all). You play fair, the others play fair, some players were newbs, some experienced, all is well, YMCA stays open another week.

You show up the next week. Teammate offends other players (or ball-hogs or ignores all other 4 players on his team), you don't confront the offending teammate, so as result the other players walk off the court, game over, not enough players for 5 on 5, so everyone goes home. Similar thing happens the next week, except this time there's player(s) breaking the rules without owning up to it, and you do nothing again, and as result players leave the court again. You could help gather some players up to play ball during the week but decide to wait until the next weekend. You try to go back, but the YMCA closed due to lack of use.

It was only a team sport, and you were just there for free. Sure, you didn't lose money, but you have lost something, and that something had value to you. Others may have lost something as well.

Who's responsibility was it to help keep the YMCA open - only the donors? YMCA management?

someone must be tasked to be responsible for the YMCA. If there are players causing issues, it would be THAT persons responsibility to deal with the situation. Boot the trouble makers, enforce time limits.

Anything other players would do would be 100% voluntary.

Ametrine
02-19-2015, 12:30 PM
Ultimately the only thing you can do is run a pug or two a day, if every player did this then there would be a more lfms than you can count and be friendly about answering questions. On any given night on Sarlona there is a ton of people on be almost no lfms, people just running with buddies or guildies I suppose.

Zephea
02-19-2015, 01:19 PM
See my technique and solutions here in this other linked thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455946-DDO-and-New-Players-To-the-Devs!?p=5543008&viewfull=1#post5543008).

Great post.

However I disagree with your point on responsibility.

Here are some things I can choose to be responsible for : being nice to other players, being inclusive of other players, encouraging others to be nice and inclusive of other players, fixing up the documentation and direction given to starting players outside the game.

Here are some things I am obviously not responsible for : advertising the game, fixing up the starter areas, fixing up the documentation and direction given to starting players within game.

Things that I think I *have* to be responsible for as opposed to choosing to be responsible for: in DDO, nothing.

Ametrine
02-19-2015, 04:42 PM
Another thing that I feel hurts the game and new players is raid timers. In the past veteran players would run groups through raids teaching them along the way. Now a new raid comes out, veterans buy a pile of timers, run it into the ground in few days getting what they need, then never run the raid again.

imo raid timers was one of the worst things ever to happen to ddo

Nuclear_Elvis
02-21-2015, 01:45 AM
Great post.

However I disagree with your point on responsibility.

Here are some things I can choose to be responsible for : being nice to other players, being inclusive of other players, encouraging others to be nice and inclusive of other players, fixing up the documentation and direction given to starting players outside the game...

What you just described matches the third definition of Responsibility -- you are doing what is morally right in being nice to other people. Regardless if this is DDO or a coffee-shop, you are taking on that Responsibility in the way you are carrying out your life.

Try to expand your mind on this one (and for many of you...) -- far too many are trying to shift all forms of Responsibility toward the physical/technical here, as if all that matters surrounds the aspects of business/software/coding. And- far too many still take the "Our" to mean "me" -- "Our" includes all of us to include Turbine execs/devs.

crazycaren
02-21-2015, 09:12 AM
One task I specifically have to run many new-to-game players through upon graduating to The Harbor - doing a "Bag Run" to get 4 x free bags and a Wide Quiver to help them with Inventory Management. My opinion, this could/should be considered a Tutorial II for players to take on optionally upon entry to Harbor (but that could be a PC2015 issue).

What are your thoughts on Player Retention, especially New Player retention? Without new players being retained, the game won't thrive, in my opinion, and even if you want a totally solo game life here, it is still in your interests to help with this since the game's mere existence may ride on it.

Thoughts/criticism?
NE

I like your suggestion for a second (optional) tutorial!

Nuclear_Elvis
02-22-2015, 11:20 PM
Have you played with any brand new players lately?

People who are responding things like giving things brand new players in Korthos ... well you can't. Unless you roll up a character that doesn't leave the Korthos area....

Yes, all the time. In fact, yesterday I quested with 2 x new-to-game and 1 returning-to-game player who are all now members of my guild.
My normal technique: I maintain a static level 3 Drow Cleric in Wayfinder who is ready to meet/greet and quest with any new-to-game players first arriving in Korthos-1 (and do all Korthos quests shy of Misery's Peak so it stays in Korthos-1). Within my first week of starting a guild I had established that, and I encourage all Guild Leaders (and at least one recruiting officer in their guilds) to consider doing something similar.
This is of great benefit to a combination of new/returning/rerolling players in the guild, and partly why my guild membership has spiraled (we may cross over 50 members soon, at least 20 were new-to-game in the last 3 months).

My main has stagnated at level 20 even though I want to take him to level 28 and Epic Reinc., but I have found it to be very enjoyable to socialize with players in this game more than just trying to achieve some "number" whether that is DPS, XP rate, or level. It's an MMORPG after all, and as I keep saying: In a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, are you helping it to be Massive? helping it to be Multi-Player? helping it to remain Role-Playing? And if "No" to any of those, exactly why are you Online? Single-Player First Person Shooters would be more appropriate!