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LuKaSu
02-04-2015, 10:55 PM
Half orcs, in my opinion, need a little bit of an upgrade. This won't make them the next uber race, probably not even quite as good as the free-to-play humans, but I think it is a step in the right direction, especially with the recent barbarian pass.

Here is my proposition for a modified half-orc racial tree. I have bolded areas that I have changed or added.



Core abilities
Orcish Fury : When you dip below 80% health, you gain a +2 morale bonus to strength for 20 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 1
Orcish Strength : +1 Strength
AP Cost: 2 Level: 4
Orcish Fury : When you dip below 60% health, you gain a +4 morale bonus to strength for 15 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 7
Orcish Strength : +1 Strength
AP Cost: 2 Level: 11
Orcish Fury : When you dip below 40% health, you gain a +8 morale bonus to strength for 10 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 16

Tier One
Tharashk Dragonmark Focus: +1/+2/+3 dragonmark use per day, +1/+2/+3 Search
AP Cost: 1
Mighty Sundering: Grants the Improved Sundering Feat (even if you don't have the requisite Power Attack feat)
AP Cost: 1

Brute Force: Your attacks or spells make enemies more likely to attack you.
Choose one:
Brutal Fighting: Activate this ability to cause your melee attacks to generate 10%/15%/20% more hate, making enemies more likely to attack you.
Brutal Spellcasting: Your damaging spells generate 10%/15%/20% more hate than they normally would and giving a 5/7/10 bonus to all elemental and force spellpower, making enemies more likely to attack you.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3

Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1
Stubborn: You gain +1/+2/+3 bonus to Will saving throws, with an additional +0/+1/+2 while raging.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3

Tier Two
Requires 5 APs spent in tree
Lesser Dragonmark of Finding: Lesser Dragonmark Spell: Knock (Skill = Character Level + Charisma Modifier). Also allows you to use your Least Dragonmark of Finding an extra time per rest.
AP Cost: 2
Lock Bash: Attempt to pick a lock - with your fists. This ability expends a use of the Lesser Dragonmark of Finding to operates as an Open Lock check using your Intimidate skill and Strength modifier.
AP Cost: 1 Requires: Lesser Dragonmark of Finding, Mighty Sundering
Orcish Persistance: Half-Orcs keep fighting long after other races tire. You can use each of your action boosts 1/2/3 additional times per rest and your range of unconsciousness extends by 10/20/30 hitpoints
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3
Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and +2 to damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2
Orcish Rage: Action Boost: You become enraged, and gain a +2 Primal bonus to Strength, but suffer -20 Physical Resistance Rating. Using this ability prevents spellcasting and uncenters you. All bonuses received by barbarian raging are also applied when Orcish Raging (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1

Tier Three
Requires 10 APs spent in tree
Greater Dragonmark of Finding: Greater Dragonmark Spell: Treasure Finding. Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Treasure Finding once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least and Lesser Marks of Finding an extra time per rest. Treasure Finding lets you target an unopened chest and twist fate for a chance at better rewards for the entire party. Chests can only be improved in this way once time, and there is a chance of failure based on your Charisma. (There is no special drawback on failure.) (Cooldown: 15 seconds)
AP Cost: 2
Great Weapon Aptitude: Glancing blows produced by your two-handed weapon attacks have a 2%/4%/6% increased chance of producing magical weapon effects such as flaming. Also, receive 2/3/5 Melee Power when using the THF fighting style.
AP Cost: 1
Improved Power Attack: Your Power Attack feat does 1/2/3 additional point of bonus damage but also has an additional -1/-2/-3 to your attack bonus.
AP Cost: 1 (dropped from 2) Ranks: 3
Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Orcish Weapon Training
Damage Boost: Activate to gain a +20% Action Boost to weapon damage for 20 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 (added as part of the half-orc's human heritage)

Tier Four
Requires 15 APs spent in tree
Raging Crush: When raging, Melee Attack: This attack is guaranteed to be a Critical Hit.(Cooldown: 90 seconds - increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 90, removed 3 usages per day limitation)
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Requires: Brute Fighting
Brutality: When using a two handed weapon, you deal an additional 20% damage to helpless opponents.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1
Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and +2 to damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1
Power Rage: When raging, you gain an additional +1/+2 Strength, but also get an additional -1/-2 penalty to AC. Requires 2/6 levels of the Barbarian class.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2
Human-Heritage Improved Recovery: +20 Positive Healing Amplification.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1

lyrecono
02-04-2015, 11:51 PM
Half orcs, in my opinion, need a little bit of an upgrade. This won't make them the next uber race, probably not even quite as good as the free-to-play humans, but I think it is a step in the right direction, especially with the recent barbarian pass.

Here is my proposition for a modified half-orc racial tree. I have bolded areas that I have changed or added.



Core abilities
Orcish Fury : When you dip below 80% health, you gain a +2 morale bonus to strength for 20 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 1
Orcish Strength : +1 Strength
AP Cost: 2 Level: 4
Orcish Fury : When you dip below 60% health, you gain a +4 morale bonus to strength for 15 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 7
Orcish Strength : +1 Strength
AP Cost: 2 Level: 11
Orcish Fury : When you dip below 40% health, you gain a +8 morale bonus to strength for 10 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 16

Tier One
Tharashk Dragonmark Focus: +1/+2/+3 dragonmark use per day, +1/+2/+3 Search
AP Cost: 1
Mighty Sundering: Grants the Improved Sundering Feat (even if you don't have the requisite Power Attack feat)
AP Cost: 1

Brute Force: Your attacks or spells make enemies more likely to attack you.
Choose one:
Brutal Fighting: Activate this ability to cause your melee attacks to generate 10%/15%/20% more hate, making enemies more likely to attack you.
Brutal Spellcasting: Your damaging spells generate 10%/15%/20% more hate than they normally would and giving a 5/7/10 bonus to all elemental and force spellpower, making enemies more likely to attack you.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3

Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1
Stubborn: You gain +1/+2/+3 bonus to Will saving throws, with an additional +0/+1/+2 while raging.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3

Tier Two
Requires 5 APs spent in tree
Lesser Dragonmark of Finding: Lesser Dragonmark Spell: Knock (Skill = Character Level + Charisma Modifier). Also allows you to use your Least Dragonmark of Finding an extra time per rest.
AP Cost: 2
Lock Bash: Attempt to pick a lock - with your fists. This ability expends a use of the Lesser Dragonmark of Finding to operates as an Open Lock check using your Intimidate skill and Strength modifier.
AP Cost: 1 Requires: Lesser Dragonmark of Finding, Mighty Sundering
Orcish Persistance: Half-Orcs keep fighting long after other races tire. You can use each of your action boosts 1/2/3 additional times per rest and your range of unconsciousness extends by 10/20/30 hitpoints
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3
Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and +2 to damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2
Orcish Rage: Action Boost: You become enraged, and gain a +2 Primal bonus to Strength, but suffer -20 Physical Resistance Rating. Using this ability prevents spellcasting and uncenters you. All bonuses received by barbarian raging are also applied when Orcish Raging (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1

Tier Three
Requires 10 APs spent in tree
Greater Dragonmark of Finding: Greater Dragonmark Spell: Treasure Finding. Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Treasure Finding once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least and Lesser Marks of Finding an extra time per rest. Treasure Finding lets you target an unopened chest and twist fate for a chance at better rewards for the entire party. Chests can only be improved in this way once time, and there is a chance of failure based on your Charisma. (There is no special drawback on failure.) (Cooldown: 15 seconds)
AP Cost: 2
Great Weapon Aptitude: Glancing blows produced by your two-handed weapon attacks have a 2%/4%/6% increased chance of producing magical weapon effects such as flaming. Also, receive 2/3/5 Melee Power when using the THF fighting style.
AP Cost: 1
Improved Power Attack: Your Power Attack feat does 1/2/3 additional point of bonus damage but also has an additional -1/-2/-3 to your attack bonus.
AP Cost: 1 (dropped from 2) Ranks: 3
Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Orcish Weapon Training
Damage Boost: Activate to gain a +20% Action Boost to weapon damage for 20 seconds.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 (added as part of the half-orc's human heritage)

Tier Four
Requires 15 APs spent in tree
Raging Crush: When raging, Melee Attack: This attack is guaranteed to be a Critical Hit.(Cooldown: 90 seconds - increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 90, removed 3 usages per day limitation)
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Requires: Brute Fighting
Brutality: When using a two handed weapon, you deal an additional 20% damage to helpless opponents.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1
Orcish Weapon Training: +1 to hit and +2 to damage when using two handed melee weapons.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1
Power Rage: When raging, you gain an additional +1/+2 Strength, but also get an additional -1/-2 penalty to AC. Requires 2/6 levels of the Barbarian class.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2
Human-Heritage Improved Recovery: +20 Positive Healing Amplification.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1

Half orcs used to be a nice race for barbarians but the enhancement pass messed them up.
Al the +to str when x amount of health was stupid to begin with but the use impaired filler to get a small damage boost when the mob is stunnend or held was made useless for all but the uber min maxer due to ludicrous mob saves in een. Another nail in the half orc's coffin is the still unfinished barbarian revamp which requires so much ap in their trees in order to get something use full out of it that they have little left for the racial tree.
I recon the human/pdk make a better barb. Their easy access to damage boost, a feat&skill point without being a ap drain make them better barbs. They literally took the worst enhancements of the halforc and made them mandatory in the horc tree during the pass.

As for your suggestions:
Improved sunder is a useless feat and your main hot bar will overflow by the time you're lv 20.
The extension of unconscious range is useless in the long run Where you can go from +1400 to -600 in seconds.
6 Ap for a 30 second +5 str boost and a -20 prr?
3ap for 5 prr? Too little too late
Same for the damage boost.

All in all, human and pdk are still better even with the suggestions.

LuKaSu
02-05-2015, 12:11 AM
*snip*

I recon the human/pdk make a better barb.

*snip*

As for your suggestions:

*snip*

6 Ap for a 30 second +5 str boost and a -20 prr? (When it says all benefits of barbarian rage, I meant like the skill would use an action boost instead of a rage use, but be exactly like barbarian raging plus the +2 Str boost. And it's only 2 AP instead of 6)
3ap for 5 prr? Too little too late (presumably, you mean Melee Power?)
Same for the damage boost.

All in all, human and pdk are still better even with the suggestions.

Thanks for your input!

Yeah, my goal here isn't to make them the best. As you mentioned there are at least two (maybe four or five to be honest) that would make better barbs or other melees. I'm not trying to make them the next flavor of the month, I'm just trying to make them more viable than they are now.

lyrecono
02-05-2015, 02:07 AM
ugh, sorry, that's what happens when i post stuf at 5:00 in the morning, i did mean melee power.....

But yeah, good effort, this race deserves a work over (a better one then the barbs had).

Rofaust
02-05-2015, 06:29 AM
I agree with the sentiment. I hate orcish fury, hate sunder bonuses, Loathe orcish rage, don't care for brutality and think that raging crush is stupid with only 3 uses per rest. What I like about the tree is threat bonus, STR bonuses (obviously), extra action boosts, 2hw attack and damage and I like lock bash. I like that you added healing amp and damage boost for human heritage, and I like range of unconsciousness but I'd rather see it on tier one because it's really the first few levels where it's useful - Orcish Rage however, I don't think can be saved. -20 PPR? No thank you. Not for 2 Str, not for 10 Str.

I would like to see a removal on the limit of raging crushes per rest and base the cool down on rogue's assassinate. Surely one critical is not the equal of an instadeath. Just ensure that the critical doesn't count as a vorpal and players won't abuse disruption or smiting, etc at lower levels. Could even make red and purple names immune if you really wanted to nerf it (a la Fatesinger's Turn The Tide damage :P)

I like the dragon mark ability in concept but I think it's too weak. I don't like the least dragon mark ability at all - I'd much rather see a nothing is hidden type skill. Knock is useful - lock bash even better; what I would really like to see is instead of unopened chest buffing for a measly +1 loot buff (that no one will wait for in a pug :/) how about GDM gives you a free reroll of the contents of the chest, as if you used astral shards. This would make grinding for gear sooo much less painful, fit better with the treasure hunter lore and punish all those imprudent chest openers!

I salute your effort to redeem half-orcs. I like your ideas and I think they need to go further to make half-orcs even close to being as viable as the lowly free-to-play human.

lyrecono
02-05-2015, 04:12 PM
I agree with the sentiment. I hate orcish fury, hate sunder bonuses, Loathe orcish rage, don't care for brutality and think that raging crush is stupid with only 3 uses per rest. What I like about the tree is threat bonus, STR bonuses (obviously), extra action boosts, 2hw attack and damage and I like lock bash. I like that you added healing amp and damage boost for human heritage, and I like range of unconsciousness but I'd rather see it on tier one because it's really the first few levels where it's useful - Orcish Rage however, I don't think can be saved. -20 PPR? No thank you. Not for 2 Str, not for 10 Str.

I would like to see a removal on the limit of raging crushes per rest and base the cool down on rogue's assassinate. Surely one critical is not the equal of an instadeath. Just ensure that the critical doesn't count as a vorpal and players won't abuse disruption or smiting, etc at lower levels. Could even make red and purple names immune if you really wanted to nerf it (a la Fatesinger's Turn The Tide damage :P)

I like the dragon mark ability in concept but I think it's too weak. I don't like the least dragon mark ability at all - I'd much rather see a nothing is hidden type skill. Knock is useful - lock bash even better; what I would really like to see is instead of unopened chest buffing for a measly +1 loot buff (that no one will wait for in a pug :/) how about GDM gives you a free reroll of the contents of the chest, as if you used astral shards. This would make grinding for gear sooo much less painful, fit better with the treasure hunter lore and punish all those imprudent chest openers!

I salute your effort to redeem half-orcs. I like your ideas and I think they need to go further to make half-orcs even close to being as viable as the lowly free-to-play human.

close to being viable as the free to play human.....
you hit the nail on the head
another reasn not to spend money in the shop when things are bound to be "reworked" into uselessness.