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Suzaku
02-03-2015, 04:33 AM
Perhaps Turbine should redesign some of the level gaps in quest chains like Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk. In tangleroot it's level 3 through 7, and in Sorrowdusk it's 6 through 10. While level gaps can be find at the end of the quest but why does it have to be 4 level?

TrinityTurtle
02-03-2015, 07:14 AM
Personally, I find the design fine the way it is, there is an encouragement to dip in and out of the chain, instead of doing the entire repetitive chains all at once.

FranOhmsford
02-03-2015, 07:48 AM
Perhaps Turbine should redesign some of the level gaps in quest chains like Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk. In tangleroot it's level 3 through 7, and in Sorrowdusk it's 6 through 10. While level gaps can be find at the end of the quest but why does it have to be 4 level?

Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk would be so simple to fix {And yes we KNOW the Devs can change Quest Levels - They did it with Cabal when they moved that quest up from 13-14!}.

Tangleroot

Upgrade First Strike and The Hobgoblins' Captives to Base Lvl 4.
Downgrade The Way to Yarkuch and Yarkuch's Last Stand to Base Lvl 6.

Sorrowdusk

Upgrade The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka and Justice For Grust to Base Lvl 7.
Downgrade Quench the Flames and Church of the Fury to Base Lvl 9


Other Chains that could do with slight changes:

Catacombs

Downgrade Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate to Base Lvl 3 {Same as the rest of the Chain!}

Shan to Kor

Upgrade The Sacred Helm and The Cloven Jaw Scourge: Blockade to Base Lvl 4.

Delera's

Upgrade Mystery of Delera's Tomb to Base Lvl 6.

Threnal

Upgrade In Need of Supplies and The Rescue to Base Lvl 9
Downgrade Secure the Area, Escort the Expedition, In Need of Reinforcements and The Gate Chamber to Base Lvl 9.
ADD the Giant Caves to the Compendium at Base Lvl 9!

Sands

Upgrade Chamber of Rahmat to Base Lvl 11.
Upgrade Offering of Blood to Base Lvl 12.

RD2play
02-03-2015, 09:12 AM
Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk would be so simple to fix {And yes we KNOW the Devs can change Quest Levels - They did it with Cabal when they moved that quest up from 13-14!}.

Tangleroot

Upgrade First Strike and The Hobgoblins' Captives to Base Lvl 4.
Downgrade The Way to Yarkuch and Yarkuch's Last Stand to Base Lvl 6.

Sorrowdusk

Upgrade The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka and Justice For Grust to Base Lvl 7.
Downgrade Quench the Flames and Church of the Fury to Base Lvl 9


Other Chains that could do with slight changes:

Catacombs

Downgrade Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate to Base Lvl 3 {Same as the rest of the Chain!}

Shan to Kor

Upgrade The Sacred Helm and The Cloven Jaw Scourge: Blockade to Base Lvl 4.

Delera's

Upgrade Mystery of Delera's Tomb to Base Lvl 6.

Threnal

Upgrade In Need of Supplies and The Rescue to Base Lvl 9
Downgrade Secure the Area, Escort the Expedition, In Need of Reinforcements and The Gate Chamber to Base Lvl 9.
ADD the Giant Caves to the Compendium at Base Lvl 9!

Sands

Upgrade Chamber of Rahmat to Base Lvl 11.
Upgrade Offering of Blood to Base Lvl 12.

I can agree on a couple of these, but not all! Sorrowdusk is already a 2 part chain, lower- and upper- isle. if you look at it like that the gap is not that big. just run lower to flag upper and then return for upper 2 levels later.

I do feel Threnal is a mess, some quests that are earlier in the story are actually higher level than quests that follow up, this does not jimmy with BB and stuff.
The same thing goes for all those packs that have only one deviant quest, thus Menechtarun sides, why is one quest lower than caravan ? why is one of the flaggers one level lower than the others? Catacombs just make it all level 3. and Tangleroot could use a midway point like Sorrowdusk has. which would make the chain easier to split and thus lessen the level gap between start and end......

FranOhmsford
02-03-2015, 10:23 AM
I can agree on a couple of these, but not all! Sorrowdusk is already a 2 part chain, lower- and upper- isle. if you look at it like that the gap is not that big. just run lower to flag upper and then return for upper 2 levels later.


Running Grey Moon and Co6 separately means soloing!
Have you ever tried to get a group together for just Grey Moon? I have and it's simply not possible!
As for Co6 - Starting at what is in effect pt 5 means that at least half the people who hit your LFM will be redboxing!


And the biggest argument against what you've stated is that making all of Grey Moon Lvl 7 {let's face it the first two quests would fit just as easily at lvl 7 as at lvl 6 and would be easily swapped with the last two quests in Splinterskull too.} would make running Grey Moon in one go MORE not less efficient!
The same goes for dropping the last two quests of Co6 to Lvl 9 - Making Co6 cover just the two levels rather than 3!

Seikojin
02-03-2015, 01:06 PM
Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk would be so simple to fix {And yes we KNOW the Devs can change Quest Levels - They did it with Cabal when they moved that quest up from 13-14!}.

Tangleroot

Upgrade First Strike and The Hobgoblins' Captives to Base Lvl 4.
Downgrade The Way to Yarkuch and Yarkuch's Last Stand to Base Lvl 6.

Sorrowdusk

Upgrade The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka and Justice For Grust to Base Lvl 7.
Downgrade Quench the Flames and Church of the Fury to Base Lvl 9


Other Chains that could do with slight changes:

Catacombs

Downgrade Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate to Base Lvl 3 {Same as the rest of the Chain!}

Shan to Kor

Upgrade The Sacred Helm and The Cloven Jaw Scourge: Blockade to Base Lvl 4.

Delera's

Upgrade Mystery of Delera's Tomb to Base Lvl 6.

Threnal

Upgrade In Need of Supplies and The Rescue to Base Lvl 9
Downgrade Secure the Area, Escort the Expedition, In Need of Reinforcements and The Gate Chamber to Base Lvl 9.
ADD the Giant Caves to the Compendium at Base Lvl 9!

Sands

Upgrade Chamber of Rahmat to Base Lvl 11.
Upgrade Offering of Blood to Base Lvl 12.

+1, I agree that chains should be tighter in level ranges. Years ago it was fine, but now...

salmag
02-03-2015, 01:59 PM
Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk would be so simple to fix {And yes we KNOW the Devs can change Quest Levels - They did it with Cabal when they moved that quest up from 13-14!}.

Tangleroot

Upgrade First Strike and The Hobgoblins' Captives to Base Lvl 4.
Downgrade The Way to Yarkuch and Yarkuch's Last Stand to Base Lvl 6.

Sorrowdusk

Upgrade The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka and Justice For Grust to Base Lvl 7.
Downgrade Quench the Flames and Church of the Fury to Base Lvl 9


Other Chains that could do with slight changes:

Catacombs

Downgrade Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate to Base Lvl 3 {Same as the rest of the Chain!}

Shan to Kor

Upgrade The Sacred Helm and The Cloven Jaw Scourge: Blockade to Base Lvl 4.

Delera's

Upgrade Mystery of Delera's Tomb to Base Lvl 6.

Threnal

Upgrade In Need of Supplies and The Rescue to Base Lvl 9
Downgrade Secure the Area, Escort the Expedition, In Need of Reinforcements and The Gate Chamber to Base Lvl 9.
ADD the Giant Caves to the Compendium at Base Lvl 9!

Sands

Upgrade Chamber of Rahmat to Base Lvl 11.
Upgrade Offering of Blood to Base Lvl 12.

Add 3BC to the mix - all should be level 6.

I would make all Greymoon level 6 and all CO6 level 8

RD2play
02-03-2015, 04:05 PM
Running Grey Moon and Co6 separately means soloing!
Have you ever tried to get a group together for just Grey Moon? I have and it's simply not possible!
As for Co6 - Starting at what is in effect pt 5 means that at least half the people who hit your LFM will be redboxing!

Sometimes, Yes, and got takers, on G-land this was on my recent life. We had to run the first part twice because some ppl joined late but it was no biggie! About Co6, yeah some people may have been redboxing, but by their own choice. As I told them how I usually run this content they all said that made more sense than running it all in one sitting (this has changed since BB, before it was never an issue to take 10% hit on the first 2). Also I specify in my LFM that I will be running only Lower resp. Upper Sorrowdusk. I feel this is supported by having to pick up Upper after you finished lower.

It is not that I don't think it would be easier (to get groups) if all of lower and all off Upper shared the same level, but in this particular pack I find it to be not so much of an issue. now if we talk tangleroot..... try to group that one with bb... every time I end up either soloing the whole thing, or have ppl drop half way leaving me to solo the remainder, no way to cut up story wise, and the wilderness doesn't support you if you run the higher level ones while at bb max.


And the biggest argument against what you've stated is that making all of Grey Moon Lvl 7 {let's face it the first two quests would fit just as easily at lvl 7 as at lvl 6 and would be easily swapped with the last two quests in Splinterskull too.} would make running Grey Moon in one go MORE not less efficient!
The same goes for dropping the last two quests of Co6 to Lvl 9 - Making Co6 cover just the two levels rather than 3!

As I said I am not against changing the levels of these, it would sure make things like finding groups for it easier. But, and this is for me personal and I can and will adapt. They are my "end of levelling" quests, meaning I can keep running the chain or level half way if I get close to capping. (yes I still bank some times) this is of course by no means a valid argument. haha!

The real question in the end is: Are these things we like to have the dev's spend time on changing? if enough ppl feel strongly about this I wont stand in the way! but I rather see new stuff personally.

I have to agree The things in your first reaction do make sense, so I agree that 3 levels difference in one chain is too much but for me 2 would be ok. unless the whole chain is one level then it makes no sense to have one be higher, unless it is a raid.

GL guys,

FranOhmsford
02-03-2015, 05:01 PM
Add 3BC to the mix - all should be level 6.

I would make all Greymoon level 6 and all CO6 level 8

The penultimate quest in Co6 is way way too difficult to be dropped to Base Lvl 8 {At Base Lvl 9 it should probably have the Challenging write up when opening it!}.

As for Grey Moon - I'd much prefer to drop the last two quests in Splinterskull to Lvl 6 and move up the 1st two in Sorrowdusk to Lvl 7 {Would fit better with the idea of finishing Tangleroot before moving on to Sorrowdusk!}.


Now for 3BC:

Guard Duty would need a complete over-haul to fit in as a Lvl 6 quest - It's barely a Lvl 5 as is!

Ghost of a Chance, Two-Toed Toby, Prove Your Worth and The Fire Caves are pretty much spot on as Lvl 5s.

The problem lies in the other 3 quests....
Trog's Get is far more difficult {COMPARATIVELY!} than its higher level successor - Old Grey Garl - Dropping Old Grey Garl to Base Lvl 6 would work.

The Scoundrel's Run is a joke on E-BB on a Lvl 9 Character!
Again it could easily be dropped to Base Lvl 6.

Dropping those two quests to Base Lvl 6 would have the added bonus of tieing them in at BB with the Maximum Slayer Level of 3BC - Lvl 8!

SirValentine
02-04-2015, 03:44 AM
This topic has been brought up before, and will probably continue to be as long as it continues to be a problem.

I don't have a problem with a single level difference, such as OOB or the last part of Catacombs. And I don't see any need to mess with any side-quests that are not directly part of a chain, even if they are part of the same pack. But some cases are way too annoying.



Tangleroot

Upgrade First Strike and The Hobgoblins' Captives to Base Lvl 4.
Downgrade The Way to Yarkuch and Yarkuch's Last Stand to Base Lvl 6.


/signed

Tangleroot spread across 5 levels is just way too much.



Threnal

Upgrade In Need of Supplies and The Rescue to Base Lvl 9
Downgrade Secure the Area, Escort the Expedition, In Need of Reinforcements and The Gate Chamber to Base Lvl 9.


Threnal's a mess. I fully support lowering Secure the Area, Escort the Expedition, and In Need of Reinforcements from 10 to 9. East and West chains are flagging quests, with a higher level than what they flag you for, South!

Personally, I don't see any need to adjust In Need of Supplies, The Rescue, or The Gate Chamber.



Sorrowdusk

Upgrade The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka and Justice For Grust to Base Lvl 7.
Downgrade Quench the Flames and Church of the Fury to Base Lvl 9


I don't see much of a problem with the range of Sorrowdusk quests. It's not a single chain; it's two separate chains. The first only has a single level difference. The second chain has a 2-level spread, same as the above suggestion for a compressed Tangleroot would have. However, either the slayer max level should be raised to 12, or, as you say, have the final quests in Co6 lowered to 9.

salmag
02-04-2015, 09:00 AM
The penultimate quest in Co6 is way way too difficult to be dropped to Base Lvl 8 {At Base Lvl 9 it should probably have the Challenging write up when opening it!}.

As for Grey Moon - I'd much prefer to drop the last two quests in Splinterskull to Lvl 6 and move up the 1st two in Sorrowdusk to Lvl 7 {Would fit better with the idea of finishing Tangleroot before moving on to Sorrowdusk!}.


Now for 3BC:

Guard Duty would need a complete over-haul to fit in as a Lvl 6 quest - It's barely a Lvl 5 as is!

Ghost of a Chance, Two-Toed Toby, Prove Your Worth and The Fire Caves are pretty much spot on as Lvl 5s.

The problem lies in the other 3 quests....
Trog's Get is far more difficult {COMPARATIVELY!} than its higher level successor - Old Grey Garl - Dropping Old Grey Garl to Base Lvl 6 would work.

The Scoundrel's Run is a joke on E-BB on a Lvl 9 Character!
Again it could easily be dropped to Base Lvl 6.

Dropping those two quests to Base Lvl 6 would have the added bonus of tieing them in at BB with the Maximum Slayer Level of 3BC - Lvl 8!

All of these suggestions I can agree with.

/signed

FranOhmsford
02-04-2015, 09:34 AM
I don't have a problem with a single level difference, such as OOB or the last part of Catacombs. And I don't see any need to mess with any side-quests that are not directly part of a chain, even if they are part of the same pack. But some cases are way too annoying.

You don't see a problem with the Devs basically killing any chance of BB on Chamber of Rahmat?
and on the other hand....
You don't see a problem with them forcing you to go out to Sands a level early for just one quest?

As for the other chain I mentioned that has a side quest - Sacred Helm could fit just as easily {probably easier} at Lvl 4 than at its current Lvl 3!



Personally, I don't see any need to adjust In Need of Supplies, The Rescue, or The Gate Chamber.

The problem with Threnal is that the OPTIMUM way to run it is not how the game tells you to run it!

In Need of Supplies is the first quest in Threnal West
The Rescue is the 2nd quest in Threnal West
YET
The game tells you to run East first!
Add to that fact that the 1st quest in Threnal East is also lower level than the last quest in Threnal West - It's just a total mess!

Move the entire chain to Lvl 9 already!

Oh and The Gate Chamber is a 30 second quest that really should be part of the previous quest anyway - There's absolutely no reason for it to be set at a different level to said previous quest as you cannot stop and come back to it later!


I don't see much of a problem with the range of Sorrowdusk quests. It's not a single chain; it's two separate chains. The first only has a single level difference. The second chain has a 2-level spread, same as the above suggestion for a compressed Tangleroot would have. However, either the slayer max level should be raised to 12, or, as you say, have the final quests in Co6 lowered to 9.

I really don't get why multiple people are defending Sorrowdusk?

It's far worse than Tangleroot!

The entirety of Grey Moon Waning should be Lvl 7 and the entirety of Co6 could fit at Lvl 9.
I simply asked for the 1st two and the last two quests to be moved one level so as to make running this chain less of a chore - I ignored the middle two quests completely but as I say they could easily be also moved up a Lvl to 9!

Sorrowdusk Slayer is fine as it is - It's the quests that are the issue!

SirValentine
02-04-2015, 02:33 PM
You don't see a problem with the Devs basically killing any chance of BB on Chamber of Rahmat?
and on the other hand....
You don't see a problem with them forcing you to go out to Sands a level early for just one quest?


Nope, no problem at all. Mainly because neither of those things are true. I always get BB for Rahmat. And I'm free to do some level 11 quests, too, while I'm out there for Rahmat. There's no rule that says I have to go only for one quest and then no more.



Oh and The Gate Chamber is a 30 second quest that really should be part of the previous quest anyway - There's absolutely no reason for it to be set at a different level to said previous quest as you cannot stop and come back to it later!


There's no gain to changing it's level for exactly that reason, that you don't stop and come back to it.. After you've run the level 9 pre-quest, and it make no difference whether Gate Chamber is 9 or 10 in those 30 seconds.



I really don't get why multiple people are defending Sorrowdusk?

It's far worse than Tangleroot!


Tangleroot chain, currently has quests at level 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, a 4-level difference.

GMW chain currently has quests at level 6 & 7, a 1-level difference.
Co6 chain currently has quests at level 8, 9, and 10, a 2-level difference.

Tangleroot's 4-level difference is twice as much as Co6's 2-level difference.

You can pretend it's equally bad by conveniently ignoring the fact Sorrowdusk is not a single chain; it has two separate chains. That falsehood would make it seem like you have a 4-level difference...which still is only tied with Tangleroot, not "worse".

ValariusK
02-04-2015, 03:26 PM
Most of these would be just fine if you installed a few checkpoint teleporters. Tangleroot, for instance, let us port to the Hobgoblin quest giver once we've been to him once or if there's a party member that has. Ditto for sorrowdusk, let us port to the 2nd ogre once we've been there once.

The problem with these chains isn't as much the level spread, its that it takes too long to get to the action to make it easy to get groups together to do them. Thus I usually just solo them and I'm not fond of soloing.
Deleras has a similarly large level spread---what is it, 5th level to 11th level?---but it doesn't have the problem because all of the quests are quick to get to.

Vellrad
02-04-2015, 03:34 PM
Instead of making each tangleroot quest same level, they should merge all of them into one mega quest (OK, two, one for each dungeon) worth of total XP and favor of entire chain.

lyrecono
02-04-2015, 04:18 PM
Ugh, realy people?

where did the days of old go, where we ran delara's chain on elite at lv 5 for the voice? where we ran the tangleroot chain in one go at lv 5/6?
there is more to life then BB, get some sence of adventure instead of asking devs to pull away recources needed to make new bug free content

nibel
02-04-2015, 04:58 PM
Instead of making each tangleroot quest same level, they should merge all of them into one mega quest (OK, two, one for each dungeon) worth of total XP and favor of entire chain.

I have been asking for this since 2007. I doubt they will ever do it. I would even set down for an epic raid in two parts with exactly the same objectives popping up in order.

EllisDee37
02-04-2015, 05:34 PM
Ugh, realy people?

where did the days of old go, where we ran delara's chain on elite at lv 5 for the voice? where we ran the tangleroot chain in one go at lv 5/6?
there is more to life then BB, get some sence of adventure instead of asking devs to pull away recources needed to make new bug free contentMeh, those were the days of running quests on normal.

I'm skeptical about running Delera's at level 5 on elite for voice. There was simply no reason to, and every reason to run it on normal.

FranOhmsford
02-04-2015, 06:08 PM
Nope, no problem at all. Mainly because neither of those things are true. I always get BB for Rahmat. And I'm free to do some level 11 quests, too, while I'm out there for Rahmat. There's no rule that says I have to go only for one quest and then no more.

Which means you're missing out on the BB XP elsewhere.

Even on a 3rd lifer I'm hard capped before completing all quests before I even reach Sands. There's already quests and even chains that I simply skip for later favour runs {or if it's an Epic Chain I'll usually run them on Heroic Elite first for Favour anyway as I only run Epics on Elite when they're part of a Saga or they have no Heroic version!}.

However - I run Rahmat every life!
And as it's one of the worst XP quests in the game I make d:rn sure I run it at Lvl 12 for BB!


The Devs put BB into the game and having a small number of quests not match up with BB is not a good thing!

I usually do run the last quest in Catacombs at Lvl 5 {same as every other quest in Catacombs!} and feel that there's absolutely no reason why this quest shouldn't be reduced to Base Lvl 3 while at the same time pushing let's say Sacred Helm or Swiped Signet up to Base Lvl 4.

It's no good simply moving a bunch of quests without making sure the numbers at each level stay relative.

Now....Moving every Threnal quest that's not already Lvl 9 to Lvl 9 AND moving the last two quests in Sorrowdusk down to Lvl 9 too could cause that sort of issue BUT Lvl 10 is already pretty sparse and is frankly the most likely level in the entire game to be skipped in its entirety {not counting Tempest's Spine}.
There's a ton of Lvl 9 quests and a ton of Lvl 11 quests already - Moving some of the Lvl 10s to base levels where they'd get more play can only be a good thing.

Also - Even with my changes there'd still be:
Tempest's Spine
Vault of Night/Plane of Night
Reclamation
Sykros' Jewel
Hiding in Plain Sight
Ghola Fan
Slavers of the Shrieking Mines

And all of the above are high xp quests! {maybe not high xp per minute but high xp per quest!}.




There's no gain to changing it's level for exactly that reason, that you don't stop and come back to it.. After you've run the level 9 pre-quest, and it make no difference whether Gate Chamber is 9 or 10 in those 30 seconds.

The Devs have proved with Cabal that they CAN change a Quest's level in the Compendium!
And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's most likely a simple change as Cabal didn't even necessarily NEED upgrading to Lvl 14! Yet they did it almost as an afterthought!

On the other hand it makes absolutely no sense that The Gate Chamber is Lvl 10 while Entering the Gate Chamber {a far far more difficult quest that HAS to be run each and every time you run The Gate Chamber!} is only Lvl 9!
Heck....
I'd accept them moving the Entering The Gate Chamber to Lvl 10 also {Just make these two quests the same d@rn level!}.


Tangleroot chain, currently has quests at level 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, a 4-level difference.

GMW chain currently has quests at level 6 & 7, a 1-level difference.
Co6 chain currently has quests at level 8, 9, and 10, a 2-level difference.

Tangleroot's 4-level difference is twice as much as Co6's 2-level difference.

You can pretend it's equally bad by conveniently ignoring the fact Sorrowdusk is not a single chain; it has two separate chains. That falsehood would make it seem like you have a 4-level difference...which still is only tied with Tangleroot, not "worse".

I apologise as it seems I didn't make my point very well.

What I was getting at when I said that Sorrowdusk is worse than Tangleroot is that Tangleroot has multiple things done right whereas Grey Moon/Co6 gets them all wrong!

1} The NPC is right outside the entrance to Splinterskull! {Seriously in a good half of Sorrowdusk I spend more time running to and from the Questgiver than actually running the QUESTS!}.
2) You don't have to go back to the One Eared Bugbear Inn to repeat the d@mn chain - You DO have to go back to The Eye of Kol Korran to repeat Sorrowdusk!
3) When running Slayer clearances between quests you don't find yourself 5 minutes Expeditious Retreat away from the quest entrance at the end of said clearance in Tangleroot!
4) Tangleroot doesn't have seriously nasty traps with the trapboxes on the far side of said traps and NO shrine in the entire quest {Grey Moon Pt 1&2! and to a Lesser extent as there's actually a shrine in the second set of caves but an even worse trapped bridge that you sometimes have to cross not once but TWICE to finish the quest in Pt 3&4}
5) Tangleroot doesn't have a quest full of frankly insane traps and thousands of Mephits!
6) Tangleroot doesn't PUNISH the newbie or casual player who doesn't have the time to wait around for a group - Sorrowdusk DOES!

And finally - You can keep saying that Grey Moon and Co6 are seperate chains and if you want to take it literally you're right.
BUT
In actuality it is ONE chain split into two!
And it has the exact same level split for it's 10 quests as Splinterskull does! A level split that is just as bad for grouping in Sorrowdusk as it is in Tangleroot!

Again - I'm not seeing how we're even having this argument as I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would be happy with the current level splits in those two {or three if you want to split hairs} chains!

FranOhmsford
02-04-2015, 06:14 PM
Meh, those were the days of running quests on normal.

I'm skeptical about running Delera's at level 5 on elite for voice. There was simply no reason to, and every reason to run it on normal.

I well remember those days when the people who introduced me to DDO insisted on running the entirety of Delera's {ON ELITE} at Lvl 4!
Despite that being new and having never played an MMO before I was in no way capable of running the later quests in said chain at that level even on NORMAL!

BB actually made me run quests EARLIER than I did before!

Pre BB I wouldn't even consider running any of Delera's on Elite till Lvl 10! {The level of the LAST quest in said chain!}.
Post BB I run Mystery at Lvl 7, Missing Party and Free Delera at Lvl 9 and Thrall at Lvl 10 {I'd run Thrall at Lvl 9 but that would mean skipping Tear or Gwylan's or Taming the Flames!}.


P.S. I'd also like to see Mystery moved up to Base Lvl 6 as currently it's TWO WHOLE LEVELS below Pt 2&3 and 3 levels below Thrall!

Hobgoblin
02-04-2015, 06:15 PM
I would like to see an option for Co6 similar to lordsmarch - where you have an option to skip ahead in the story

FranOhmsford
02-04-2015, 06:20 PM
I would like to see an option for Co6 similar to lordsmarch - where you have an option to skip ahead in the story

Actually that option is already there. But only once you've completed the entire chain that life {so you can repeat Co6 over and over again while Grey Moon only has to be completed the once.}.

Why you'd WANT to repeat Co6 over and over again is another question?

lyrecono
02-05-2015, 01:12 AM
Meh, those were the days of running quests on normal.

I'm skeptical about running Delera's at level 5 on elite for voice. There was simply no reason to, and every reason to run it on normal.

actually, that's what we did often, we loved the challenge, running the chain on elite at 5
When bravery bonus came around and the heroic grind slowed things down this pattern of running stuff under level for the challenge disappeared.

FranOhmsford
02-05-2015, 02:15 AM
actually, that's what we did often, we loved the challenge, running the chain on elite at 5
When bravery bonus came around and the heroic grind slowed things down this pattern of running stuff under level for the challenge disappeared.

As did running things over-level!

The XP differential for BB is just too good!

You're complaining about not being able to get a group under-level.
I'm complaining about the newbies and casuals who are FORCED to run at BB level if they want to get a group together at all!

Either way - If you want to run Tear of Dhakaan at Lvl 4 you can still do so {I think}.
If I want to skip A Small Problem and run it at Lvl 8 or 9 I can still do so {as can a newbie}.
HOWEVER:
We both know that basically that's going to end up with us SOLOING those quests!

And for you - Soloing Tear at Lvl 4 can only be considered as a Challenge you WANT to take on!
Whereas for the newbie - Soloing A Small Problem at Lvl 8 or 9 is far more difficult and time consuming than getting into a Group for that same quest at Lvl 7! {Especially if doing so on Elite as A Small Problem is one of the very few quests in the game that ramps up with completely new situations on Elite - Making Learning it on Normal and Hard USELESS!}.

General_Gronker
02-05-2015, 08:37 AM
actually, that's what we did often, we loved the challenge, running the chain on elite at 5
When bravery bonus came around and the heroic grind slowed things down this pattern of running stuff under level for the challenge disappeared.

It didn't disappear. Literally nothing is stopping you from being special and running quests under level and naked.

lyrecono
02-05-2015, 02:57 PM
As did running things over-level!

The XP differential for BB is just too good!

You're complaining about not being able to get a group under-level.
I'm complaining about the newbies and casuals who are FORCED to run at BB level if they want to get a group together at all!

Either way - If you want to run Tear of Dhakaan at Lvl 4 you can still do so {I think}.
If I want to skip A Small Problem and run it at Lvl 8 or 9 I can still do so {as can a newbie}.
HOWEVER:
We both know that basically that's going to end up with us SOLOING those quests!

And for you - Soloing Tear at Lvl 4 can only be considered as a Challenge you WANT to take on!
Whereas for the newbie - Soloing A Small Problem at Lvl 8 or 9 is far more difficult and time consuming than getting into a Group for that same quest at Lvl 7! {Especially if doing so on Elite as A Small Problem is one of the very few quests in the game that ramps up with completely new situations on Elite - Making Learning it on Normal and Hard USELESS!}.

Actualy, i was telling them to suck it up and run it overlevel.

Hobgoblin
02-05-2015, 11:38 PM
Actually that option is already there. But only once you've completed the entire chain that life {so you can repeat Co6 over and over again while Grey Moon only has to be completed the once.}.

Why you'd WANT to repeat Co6 over and over again is another question?

not exactly. what i want is for you to walk up to bruku and say skip ahead and start c06

FranOhmsford
02-06-2015, 03:16 AM
Actualy, i was telling them to suck it up and run it overlevel.

No - What you're saying is "suck it up and SOLO it overlevel"

There is a big difference!

DDO is still supposed to be a group game and for those of us who aren't completely antisocial the ONLY reason we solo is because of the lack of grouping options outside of BB!
Even with BB there's still many times where we still end up soloing through no fault of our own!

Heck I put up a Tempest's Spine E-BB 9-12 the other day with a friend {this was about 5-6pm GMT} and it was a good 10-15 minutes before we got even ONE person join!
It was 30 minutes + before we had 6 and only then because I'd started sending out tells to people in the level range who weren't in groups and in public areas!
We went IP at 6 and ended up with 10 I believe.

DDO has become really bad at keeping players together and promoting Grouping!

FranOhmsford
02-06-2015, 03:17 AM
not exactly. what i want is for you to walk up to bruku and say skip ahead and start c06

I can /sign that suggestion.

legendkilleroll
02-06-2015, 06:49 AM
DDO has become really bad at keeping players together and promoting Grouping!

Thats because the game is getting easier and people can solo almost everything

nibel
02-06-2015, 07:39 AM
not exactly. what i want is for you to walk up to bruku and say skip ahead and start c06

They have the tech for that. Lordsmarch first chain can be skipped like that.

They also need to add this to the MotU chain, and make the only flagging required for CitW being the demonweb quests.

nibel
02-06-2015, 07:42 AM
DDO is still supposed to be a group game and for those of us who aren't completely antisocial the ONLY reason we solo is because of the lack of grouping options outside of BB!

The main reason might be that, but not the only reason. Eg, sometimes I solo because I'm hunting a specific rare monster or collecting data for the wiki, and those jobs are better done solo.

FranOhmsford
02-06-2015, 10:07 AM
The main reason might be that, but not the only reason. Eg, sometimes I solo because I'm hunting a specific rare monster or collecting data for the wiki, and those jobs are better done solo.

No need to be pedantic Nibs.

I wasn't talking about every possible reason for soloing anything in the game.

I was simply talking about standard questing!

I enjoy soloing slayers myself - Mainly because I like to run them fully and Groups always rush!

And I don't mind soloing quests that much any more because I've got used to it!

BUT

When people on these forums keep stating that "If you can't run E-BB you can go run Hard or Normal or run Overlevel" they're ignoring the fact that by and large that means SOLOING!

lyrecono
02-06-2015, 06:03 PM
No - What you're saying is "suck it up and SOLO it overlevel"

There is a big difference!

DDO is still supposed to be a group game and for those of us who aren't completely antisocial the ONLY reason we solo is because of the lack of grouping options outside of BB!
Even with BB there's still many times where we still end up soloing through no fault of our own!

Heck I put up a Tempest's Spine E-BB 9-12 the other day with a friend {this was about 5-6pm GMT} and it was a good 10-15 minutes before we got even ONE person join!
It was 30 minutes + before we had 6 and only then because I'd started sending out tells to people in the level range who weren't in groups and in public areas!
We went IP at 6 and ended up with 10 I believe.

DDO has become really bad at keeping players together and promoting Grouping!

You are aware of DDO's dwindling population for the last 2 to 3 years are you not?
You are aware of the epic grind taking a lot of people in the lv 20-28 range?
You are aware that even when the population was spread evenly over lv 1 to 28 the chance of people being lv 10 to 12 (the propper level for ts according to tr zergers, not me) is slim, assuming they haven't already ran TS that day


to be honnest, the best reason i have these days to avoid the lfm is the champoins. I'm slowly starting to see the lfm as a collection of underpowered people who need to be dragged through content they can't seem to handle on their own. Constantly slowing me downt to pick up soulstones and constantly costing me 10%exp.
If you want turbine to change grouping, that might be a better start

FranOhmsford
02-07-2015, 06:16 AM
You are aware of DDO's dwindling population for the last 2 to 3 years are you not?
You are aware of the epic grind taking a lot of people in the lv 20-28 range?
You are aware that even when the population was spread evenly over lv 1 to 28 the chance of people being lv 10 to 12 (the propper level for ts according to tr zergers, not me) is slim, assuming they haven't already ran TS that day

Yes - There are many reasons why that particular example taken on its own can be shot down BUT it's just one example and the same problem is met at all levels!

You're right of course that DDO no longer has the population per server to account for 28 levels {In fact I don't believe that even in 2009/2010 it had that population and we'd have seen the same problems had the Level Cap been increased back then as we are now...Though maybe not in such a massive way.}.

You're right of course that the Epic Grind keeps the majority of vets out of Heroic levels. And when they are in Heroic levels they rush through them as fast as possible!

You're right of course that the chance of enough people being at a certain level range to make a Raid group viable in less than half an hour is low and always has been.
You CANNOT state though that the chances of getting a group now are anywhere near those of two, three or four years ago!

And I chose TS as my example for three reasons:
1) I'd just ran it!
2) It's known as one of the strongest grouping quests/raids in the entire game! One where getting a group together used to be a cinch!
3) More and more often I'm seeing TS BB Groups in progress with 4 or less players - If you don't think that this is Ludicrous for a RAID then I really don't know what to say!


to be honnest, the best reason i have these days to avoid the lfm is the champoins. I'm slowly starting to see the lfm as a collection of underpowered people who need to be dragged through content they can't seem to handle on their own. Constantly slowing me downt to pick up soulstones and constantly costing me 10%exp.
If you want turbine to change grouping, that might be a better start

This is Catch 22!

The people you're complaining about costing you 10% {Rofl!} won't be able to run TS alone with or without Champions!
Either way they need you or others like you to get them through it!

So:
Without Champions you run it solo because:
a) You Can!
and
b) You have no reason whatsoever to open the LFM up to people who you may have to take time to guide through!

And With Champions you run it solo because:
a) You Can!
and
b) You have even less reason to open the LFM up to people as they may now cost you even more than just time!

Basically there's absolutely nothing Turbine can do to make this game difficult enough for YOU to have to get a Raid Group together for a Lvl 10 Raid other than putting in VoN 5/Twilight Forge style you must have multiple characters situations Which from experience of these forums is NOT WANTED!
Strange really considering that VoN 5 is perhaps the most run Raid in the game now {On Epic that is - On Heroic not so much!}.
Make Twilight Forge Epic and that will be run a heck of a lot more too!