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Puaroh
02-01-2015, 04:03 AM
I been playing my paladin many months and she is great fun! Thanks for the help building her. She picked up a lot of repeating crossbows and those arm things. I would like to make artificer next! New character, no reincarnate paladin.

I like half-elves. No other classes. No melee weapons. Big scary dog! I do not care about epic levels. I only care about heroic power. I want to be part robot and repair myself! I forget the name of the feat.

I look at forums but threads are all "How to be uber raid arti except raid arti stinks." I don't want raid artificer, I want artificer for fun! To me, fun is half-elf, part robot, crossbow and arm thing, big scary dog.

I already have notes to make dog be evasive.

Thank you for any help!

Wh070aa
02-01-2015, 04:44 AM
What play style classifies as fun to you?

Archery artificers are really boring, especially pure class. Like for reallz snooze fest, only active ability you have is rune arm, where you wait for loading bar to charge, while moving really slowly. Also construct essence really sucks, at least in my opinion. You don't get reconstruct till at least level 15 (more like level 19, if you want any damage spells), and you gimp your healing for marginally more damage, and attack speed.

Dogs AI, damige, and DC sucks. Only reason to summon dog is to pull a lever.

As for archery you want
1)point blank
2)PS
3)IPS(19 base dex needed)
4)critical: ranged
5)Precision
As for robot you need
6)Construct essence
7)quicken
---
Other feats
8)Maximise (for smaller repairs)
9)Insightful reflexes (because no damage migration otherwise)
10)combat archery (Epic, 21 base dex needed)

Collect rune arms while your on this life, because getting them is a pain. You need to learn to use jump potions + haste to kite enemies. Also consider the lightning SLA's/ spells. Also you will have no HP, because you need 16+ starting dex (because IPS and combat archery).

I have played pure arty once. It sucks after level 16. Also I did not take the construct essence, because its easy enough to heal your self without it.

As for enchantments, get harper tree, KtA, and that's basically it. The other enchantments don't make a visible change, past slight (+1 damige per 10 enchantment points or so) damage increases, rune arm penalty reductions, and spell point efficiency. There is also endless fusillade, that lasts whole 6 seconds.

CThruTheEgo
02-01-2015, 08:44 AM
A pure arti is inherently a hybrid ranged/casting build. They get enough extra feats to be able to do both effectively. If you want to do only ranged, you're better off multiclassing, but imo, the gains in ranged dps do not make up for the loss of casting/rune arm dps. That's just my opinion, others will say differently I'm sure.

Have a look at Dubbell O'Seven in my sig for a warforged casting/ranged pure artificer. Just drop con for a 32 or 34 point build. It is built to be effective at endgame but is also effective through all levels of the game, and is a lot of fun to play. Even if it's not exactly what you're looking for, it should still give you some good ideas.

Sehenry03
02-01-2015, 01:43 PM
What play style classifies as fun to you?

Archery artificers are really boring, especially pure class. Like for reallz snooze fest, only active ability you have is rune arm, where you wait for loading bar to charge, while moving really slowly. Also construct essence really sucks, at least in my opinion. You don't get reconstruct till at least level 15 (more like level 19, if you want any damage spells), and you gimp your healing for marginally more damage, and attack speed.

Dogs AI, damige, and DC sucks. Only reason to summon dog is to pull a lever.

As for archery you want
1)point blank
2)PS
3)IPS(19 base dex needed)
4)critical: ranged
5)Precision
As for robot you need
6)Construct essence
7)quicken
---
Other feats
8)Maximise (for smaller repairs)
9)Insightful reflexes (because no damage migration otherwise)
10)combat archery (Epic, 21 base dex needed)

Collect rune arms while your on this life, because getting them is a pain. You need to learn to use jump potions + haste to kite enemies. Also consider the lightning SLA's/ spells. Also you will have no HP, because you need 16+ starting dex (because IPS and combat archery).

I have played pure arty once. It sucks after level 16. Also I did not take the construct essence, because its easy enough to heal your self without it.

As for enchantments, get harper tree, KtA, and that's basically it. The other enchantments don't make a visible change, past slight (+1 damige per 10 enchantment points or so) damage increases, rune arm penalty reductions, and spell point efficiency. There is also endless fusillade, that lasts whole 6 seconds.

Wow you have a much different view then I do on Arty's LOL

Ok so the Arty Dog does not suck...it is a decent source of dmg and crowd control for you. Keep its enhancements up to day and keep a decent collar/Docent on him and he will do fine all the way to 20.

If your Arty starts dropping off at 16 you need to take a hard look at your toon. You should be able to run any elite quest from 1-20 solo once you get the basics down and that's with just decent gear. You don't need to kite with jump/haste that's horrible. Yes every ranged character will kite some mobs but my arty can go toe to toe with most mobs just fine. Being Half-Elf is gonna hurt...a lot. You will self heal for ****. Being a fleshie and going for the ability to repair yourself puts you in the middle of 2 good heals...Repair and Heal. You will get half from either one which is bad. Half-Elf itself is not a bad choice really but stay fleshie version if you want good healing and use heal scrolls/pots/wands. Arty's get bonuses from these types of healing also. You won't be AS efficient as a warforged arty but you will still be fine. Take a good look at weapons and rune arms...get a Hand of the Tombs if at all possible. Learn the class a little and they are the best soloers from 1-20 in the game except maybe the sorc...you can argue both ways =). yes other classes solo well but not NEARLY as new player friendly as Arty.

Don't let ANYONE tell you arty's are bad before 20 because even with only average gear they are great. If anyone has issues they just don't know the class.

Wh070aa
02-01-2015, 02:11 PM
Wow you have a much different view then I do on Arty's LOL

Ok so the Arty Dog does not suck...it is a decent source of dmg and crowd control for you. Keep its enhancements up to day and keep a decent collar/Docent on him and he will do fine all the way to 20.

If your Arty starts dropping off at 16 you need to take a hard look at your toon. You should be able to run any elite quest from 1-20 solo once you get the basics down and that's with just decent gear. You don't need to kite with jump/haste that's horrible. Yes every ranged character will kite some mobs but my arty can go toe to toe with most mobs just fine. Being Half-Elf is gonna hurt...a lot. You will self heal for ****. Being a fleshie and going for the ability to repair yourself puts you in the middle of 2 good heals...Repair and Heal. You will get half from either one which is bad. Half-Elf itself is not a bad choice really but stay fleshie version if you want good healing and use heal scrolls/pots/wands. Arty's get bonuses from these types of healing also. You won't be AS efficient as a warforged arty but you will still be fine. Take a good look at weapons and rune arms...get a Hand of the Tombs if at all possible. Learn the class a little and they are the best soloers from 1-20 in the game except maybe the sorc...you can argue both ways =). yes other classes solo well but not NEARLY as new player friendly as Arty.

Don't let ANYONE tell you arty's are bad before 20 because even with only average gear they are great. If anyone has issues they just don't know the class.


Having to dump con,6Hit dice and going toe to toe. Whut? Only reason to be near anything is casting Blast Rod.
Yes you can solo elite quests, but on level 17+ quests arti is noticeably weaker than other classes. I got sample size of only 7 friends, who have artificer, but they all agree, that the dog is worthless, and that arti looses power after level 16-ish.
IDK how you had any good experiences with the dog, but your play style must greatly differ from mine. I am missing most of the "good" level 18 gear taught. Maybe it makes a difference, but farming for it seems like a waste of time.

Care about sharing your secret of uberness at level 17+ ?

CThruTheEgo
02-01-2015, 02:44 PM
Having to dump con

Why do you have to dump con?


the dog is worthless

The dog is still good in heroics. I would mostly use it for CC (i.e. trip). In epics I don't even bother to summon it unless I need a lever puller or something like that.


on level 17+ quests arti is noticeably weaker than other classes... snip... arti looses power after level 16-ish.

Care about sharing your secret of uberness at level 17+ ?

Blade barrier. It is still one of the best persistent AoE spells in the game, especially in heroics. It should be the first level 6 spell memorized and is exactly when the playstyle of an arti shifts from primarily ranged with casting backup to primarily caster with ranged backup.

An arti's spells really don't become powerful until late heroics, so before that it's all about the repeater. But as repeater damage starts to plateau, casting dps starts to take off. If you don't make that shift, then you aren't utilizing the full potential of the class. This is one reason why I personally don't think a multiclass ranged build is worth it. It sacrifices all of the casting potential and only gains a little in ranged dps. But a pure arti is inherently a hybrid ranged/casting build and you have to be able to utilize both to max the build's potential. It's a powerful and versatile combination, from level 1-28, when you are able to use the full potential.

EDIT: Tactical detonation is great CC in heroics for multiple targets, prismatic strike is good for single targets. So artis have CC potential, AoE spell dps, party buffs for proxy damage, rune arm for free spell dps, and the crossbow so they are not 100% dependent on the blue bar like other casting classes. Arti is great in late heroics. For the rune arm by that level, you should have a heroic Corruption of Nature or Lucid Dreams. Lucid Dreams can have masterful craftsmanship put on it to lower the min level to 17.

Sehenry03
02-01-2015, 03:55 PM
Having to dump con,6Hit dice and going toe to toe. Whut? Only reason to be near anything is casting Blast Rod.
Yes you can solo elite quests, but on level 17+ quests arti is noticeably weaker than other classes. I got sample size of only 7 friends, who have artificer, but they all agree, that the dog is worthless, and that arti looses power after level 16-ish.
IDK how you had any good experiences with the dog, but your play style must greatly differ from mine. I am missing most of the "good" level 18 gear taught. Maybe it makes a difference, but farming for it seems like a waste of time.

Care about sharing your secret of uberness at level 17+ ?

For a complete breakdown look up Dubbel's build.

But here are some basics...I love my arty...I am building PL's just for him waiting for the enhancement pass to hit.

I do Warforged Arty. I have 36 pt open on him but even 28 will work.

Str 8
Wis 8
Cha 6
Dex 14 I would not worry about IPS until I plan on doing epics. It is not needed in heroics at all. If you get a +3 dex tome though your set.
Con 14
Int 18

That is a base 28 pt build that will work fine.

Go pure Arty or add a few fighter lives if you plan on TRing when you hit 20. I prefer straight Arty.

I craft my stuff and it is not hard to get your crafting high enough to do this especially with an arty. Lots of lootgen repeaters work great with arty's.

I take a few feats early mainly to help my xbow reload speed and doublestrike but IPS is not one I worry about in heroics because everything already dies easy enough.

Take adamantine body around 12 for good PRR/MRR (this lets you go toe to toe) arty's don't have ASF like other arcanes or at least mine doesn't.

Get flame turret asap to make life easy until you get BB later on. I tend to take BB before reconstruct because I have a lot of repair amp but either works.

You can cast BB and kite stuff as you shoot it if you want. I don't even use BB much in heroics. Tac Dev is the bomb though...literally =). Get endless Fusillade in your arty tree and that's about all I worry about much otherwise I get a lot of feats from the harper tree. Int to hit and dmg as well as skill boosts and spell point boosts. Get HPs from WF tree and any other tree you can. Use distance to your advantage. Get good rune arms. I use Hand of the Tombs almost all the way to 20 and I usually forget to even change it before I TR. Rune Arms are pretty easy to get and a lot sell cheap on the AH. Lots of rune arms available as end rewards are really nice.

I never run wildly around hasting myself and kiting everywhere. I don't even use BB to kite through. I just tend to shoot and stand there letting precise shot build up stacks. With the PRR/MRR from adamantine body/augs/gear I can hit 100 PRR easy by 14 so dmg is already cut in half plus as a WF I am VERY durable. I have a LOT of HP's and none of it is from uber PL gear...just stuff like Minos Helm + GFL items. Yes I have a GS item that gives HP's but I don't need it to survive but its nice. I certainly can't tank like a pally but I can take a beating and with quickened reconstruct I am always fine.

Now things to consider. TRing will vastly increase your abilities as an Arty. LOTS of really good gear is useable for TRing and are easy to get for a 20 Arty. Archmagi Ioun Stone is easy to get and useable at 5 which is a HUGE boost to mana. Green Steel triple pos repeater is a huge luxury. GS Cloak with +45 hp's very nice. All that is something you can do at lvl 20 before you TR again. Also Sorc/Arty/Rogue/Ranger PL's will help a LOT with DPS output if you plan on having Arty as your final life.

The issue the OP is gonna have is he has to be Half Elf which makes for a tougher path as an arty. WF are much better in pretty much every regard but Half Elves do fine just not as good.

CThruTheEgo
02-01-2015, 11:39 PM
arty's don't have ASF like other arcanes or at least mine doesn't.

Artificer spells are technically considered "infusions" and are therefore not subject to arcane spell failure. Although you will still have an ASF check when using arcane scrolls, but ASF from adamantine body can be reduced to 0. For anyone interested in how to accomplish that, see Dubbell for a breakdown.

Puaroh
02-02-2015, 12:23 AM
Wow you have a much different view then I do on Arty's LOL

Ok so the Arty Dog does not suck...it is a decent source of dmg and crowd control for you. Keep its enhancements up to day and keep a decent collar/Docent on him and he will do fine all the way to 20.

If your Arty starts dropping off at 16 you need to take a hard look at your toon. You should be able to run any elite quest from 1-20 solo once you get the basics down and that's with just decent gear. You don't need to kite with jump/haste that's horrible. Yes every ranged character will kite some mobs but my arty can go toe to toe with most mobs just fine. Being Half-Elf is gonna hurt...a lot. You will self heal for ****. Being a fleshie and going for the ability to repair yourself puts you in the middle of 2 good heals...Repair and Heal. You will get half from either one which is bad. Half-Elf itself is not a bad choice really but stay fleshie version if you want good healing and use heal scrolls/pots/wands. Arty's get bonuses from these types of healing also. You won't be AS efficient as a warforged arty but you will still be fine. Take a good look at weapons and rune arms...get a Hand of the Tombs if at all possible. Learn the class a little and they are the best soloers from 1-20 in the game except maybe the sorc...you can argue both ways =). yes other classes solo well but not NEARLY as new player friendly as Arty.

Don't let ANYONE tell you arty's are bad before 20 because even with only average gear they are great. If anyone has issues they just don't know the class.

Yes yes! Dog is very good DPS. I run with an artificer two days quests on paladin. Dog kills more than weak players! That is a scary dog! Player say make dog evasive.

Thank you for explaining why half robot feat is bad. I will be half elf and just use elfish healing amplification! Better healing!

I find the Hand of the Tombs rune arm. It makes fire damage and hurts undead! I also have the heroic best one ever for artificers. I forget name. Something with "Nature". It comes from Lolth world. I collect hand wraps to make pet collars with crafting.

I have the crafting on my paladin. She uses many MANY MANY essences and my eyes bleed and my son brings me plates of food so I do not starve! Now is worth it! I can craft forever!

Thank you so much. I will look at Dubbell O'Seven and take out robot skills. My son says that is Irish James Bond joke. I like Pierce Brosnin. Movies are stupid but he is best James Bond ever!

Puaroh
02-03-2015, 05:12 PM
Here is help from Dubbell O'Seven post:


This is definitely an arti built for endgame. I think I would make a lot of changes if I was going to TR immediately at 20. The playstyle of an artificer really changes throughout the leveling process. Ranged dps is primary through most of the heroic leveling process. Casting ability really starts to be effective when you get blade barrier, which is level 15 at the earliest. So with this in mind, I would probably go helf over WF. The extreme survivability that WF offers isn't really needed until late game. Cure/repair serious pots will be sufficient until you can effectively switch to scrolls, around levels 12-15, which will then get you through to 20. For most heroic content a quickened reconstruct (which is the biggest advantage that WF offers) simply isn't necessary. Helf, on the other hand, will provide better ranged dps from rogue dil. Since ranged is the primary focus, I would keep all of the ranged feats.

The casting ability of an artificer, which this build emphasizes, does not reach its most powerful until very late in leveling. If you are going straight from 18-20 and then TRing immediately, you will only have 2 level 6 spell slots. Blade barrier, tactical detonation, and deadly weapons are pretty much must haves for any arti with enough spell slots to have them all. Reconstruct is only useful for WF and again, isn't really even needed for heroic levels. So the first level 6 spell I would get at 15 would probably be blade barrier. The second spell obtained at level 16 would probably be switched between tactical detonation and deadly weapons as needed. I would probably keep maximize and empower for blade barrier. The spell focus feats are not as important during heroic levels but will still be of benefit, mostly from having mobs save less often against your damage spells. You get prismatic strike at the earliest at level 12 which offers a single target CC option and would also benefit from the spell focus feats.

Since TRing at 20 you don't need to build for epic feats, so you could adjust the starting stats as well. Insightful reflexes is also not really needed as your big boost to int happens from epic gear and epic destiny. And the dog is more useful at lower levels, in my opinion, so I would fit in augment summoning as well. I'll list below the starting stats and feat order I would take if building an arti just for a TR, assuming a 36 point build (adjust con down if a 34 or 32 pt build). Put all level up points into int, unless you do not have a +3 dex tome, then put one level up point into dex at level 12.

Half-elf
str8
dex16
con16
int18
wis8
cha8

Feats:
1 augment summoning
3 point blank shot
4a rapid shot
6 toughness
8a precise shot
9 maximize
12 spell focus evo
12a imp crit ranged
15 improved precise shot
16a empower
18 gr spell focus evo

I prefer to take the ranged feats as early as possible, though some would advocate maximize/empower sooner to use with blast rod. It just depends on your playstyle and what you want the character to do. I haven't used precision so I can't speak from experience with it, although I will say I have my doubts about its usefulness for heroic level content.



Here is How To Make Artificer Dog Evasive:


LVL Pet Enhancement (Evasion II by Level 16)
1 Adam. Plating I (2 AP)
2 Rein. Armor I (2 AP)
3 Danger Avoid. I (2 AP)
4 Distract. I (2 AP)
5 Adam. Plating II (1 AP); Rein. Armor II (1 AP)
6 Danger Avoid. II (1 AP); Distract. II (1 AP)
7 Dex. I (2)
8 Adam. Plating III (1 AP); Rein. Armor III (1 AP)
9 Danger Avoid. III (1 AP); Distract. III (1 AP)
10
11 Dex. II (4 AP)
12 Rein. Armor IV (1 AP); Adam. Plating IV (1 AP)
13 Evasion I (2 AP)
14 Danger Avoid. IV (1 AP); Distract. IV (1 AP)
15 Strength I (2 AP)
16 Evasion II (2 AP)
17
18 Strength II (4 AP)
19 Fearsome Tactics I & II (2 AP) / Takedown I (2 AP)
20 Fearsome Tactics III & IV (2 AP) / Takedown II & III (2 AP)

CThruTheEgo
02-04-2015, 11:37 AM
Here is help from Dubbell O'Seven post:


This is definitely an arti built for endgame. I think I would make a lot of changes if I was going to TR immediately at 20. The playstyle of an artificer really changes throughout the leveling process. Ranged dps is primary through most of the heroic leveling process. Casting ability really starts to be effective when you get blade barrier, which is level 15 at the earliest. So with this in mind, I would probably go helf over WF. The extreme survivability that WF offers isn't really needed until late game. Cure/repair serious pots will be sufficient until you can effectively switch to scrolls, around levels 12-15, which will then get you through to 20. For most heroic content a quickened reconstruct (which is the biggest advantage that WF offers) simply isn't necessary. Helf, on the other hand, will provide better ranged dps from rogue dil. Since ranged is the primary focus, I would keep all of the ranged feats.

The casting ability of an artificer, which this build emphasizes, does not reach its most powerful until very late in leveling. If you are going straight from 18-20 and then TRing immediately, you will only have 2 level 6 spell slots. Blade barrier, tactical detonation, and deadly weapons are pretty much must haves for any arti with enough spell slots to have them all. Reconstruct is only useful for WF and again, isn't really even needed for heroic levels. So the first level 6 spell I would get at 15 would probably be blade barrier. The second spell obtained at level 16 would probably be switched between tactical detonation and deadly weapons as needed. I would probably keep maximize and empower for blade barrier. The spell focus feats are not as important during heroic levels but will still be of benefit, mostly from having mobs save less often against your damage spells. You get prismatic strike at the earliest at level 12 which offers a single target CC option and would also benefit from the spell focus feats.

Since TRing at 20 you don't need to build for epic feats, so you could adjust the starting stats as well. Insightful reflexes is also not really needed as your big boost to int happens from epic gear and epic destiny. And the dog is more useful at lower levels, in my opinion, so I would fit in augment summoning as well. I'll list below the starting stats and feat order I would take if building an arti just for a TR, assuming a 36 point build (adjust con down if a 34 or 32 pt build). Put all level up points into int, unless you do not have a +3 dex tome, then put one level up point into dex at level 12.

Half-elf
str8
dex16
con16
int18
wis8
cha8

Feats:
1 augment summoning
3 point blank shot
4a rapid shot
6 toughness
8a precise shot
9 maximize
12 spell focus evo
12a imp crit ranged
15 improved precise shot
16a empower
18 gr spell focus evo

I prefer to take the ranged feats as early as possible, though some would advocate maximize/empower sooner to use with blast rod. It just depends on your playstyle and what you want the character to do. I haven't used precision so I can't speak from experience with it, although I will say I have my doubts about its usefulness for heroic level content.

This post you quoted is from before the enhancement pass I believe, which means some of it is outdated. I would still agree with most of it, but not all. I'll only mention the parts that I no longer agree with, so if I don't mention something, you can assume I'd still recommend it. All of this advice is assuming you are only going to level 20 for an artificer past life and not into epics. If going into epics, then I'd suggest just following the build.

I would not recommend half elf rogue dilettante anymore because the dilettante enhancements are very expensive. I'd go human, follow the feat progression currently listed on Dubbell O'Seven, and take augment summon for the bonus human feat. I'd also pick up human damage boost for 1 AP from the racial tree.

You need 19 dex to get improved precise shot. Subtract whatever dex tome you have from that number and invest level ups as needed to reach 19 dex by level 16 when improved precise shot is taken. Invest level ups as close to level 16 as possible because the sooner you invest in int, the more skill points you get as you level up.

I haven't leveled the build since the enhancement pass, so I don't know how useful the SLAs are during heroics. They are useless at endgame and are not needed during heroics if you don't want to bother with them. I can say that from experience because I didn't have them and leveling an arti was easy. In the beginning you will kill most stuff with the repeater before it even reaches you. Then you get flame turret and let it tank for you while you plink away with the repeater. Then you get blade barrier and use the repeater to mop up any mobs that survive it. The SLAs could probably be added to the rotation somewhere, but I don't see them as necessary.

Enoach
02-04-2015, 12:10 PM
The two lives I played as a pure Artificer I found the Iron Defender did well for me during the times it was not glitched and when I monitored what it needed to be, Actively Aggressive, Defensive, totally passive or even "See that guy, go get'em"

Other things I found was important and often forgotten...


Gear - Much like any fighter it will only perform so well based on its gear. Look for gear (or craft) that will complement your Iron Defender - Such as trip, intimidate, bluff or even damage. Named Handwraps can be turned into collars
Buffs - Just like any other character buffs go a long way. Once played with an Arti in a fire filled dungeon. His Iron defender kept dying, mine wasn't the difference was mine had Fire Resistance his didn't. This is something an Arti can wand and be effective with. Blur and heroism spells also go a long way
Buffs through Feats - Augment Summon when it can be fit in is a good boost to not only the Iron Defender but to any Hirelings you bring along


For my play style the Iron Defender was used more like a lineman to my quarterback. His job was to keep things from getting to me, my job was to take stuff down.

Now I've played an Artificer three ways:
1. Fleshy with Construct Essence <- While fun its self healing was not as good as I had hoped it would be. However, that is not saying it is poor.
2. Fleshy all the way <- While Heal scrolls are so well amp'd by artificer abilities you still suffer the having to switch to scroll aspect. But commonly missed is the Healing Infusions, for a few spell points you can turn a healing potion into a mass healing. Low level artificers are really good party healers as most of there power comes from their Rune Arms and repeaters and SP is mainly buffs and healing
3. WF <- By far the easiest to self heal. This also opens up the WF weapons attachment line leaving you open to choose different artificer trees

Take car of the Iron Defender (Gear, Buff and Orders) and it will take care of you.