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Hobgoblin
01-28-2015, 06:14 PM
I have a morning lord cleric that im trying to use as a light spec. originally, my plan was 15 clr/ 3 fvs/ 2 pally - but am having fun with it at just 15 clr.

i could go pure and get the capstones or go 17/3 fvs and get more light sp.

thoughts?

Hazelnut
01-28-2015, 06:49 PM
I have a morning lord cleric that im trying to use as a light spec. originally, my plan was 15 clr/ 3 fvs/ 2 pally - but am having fun with it at just 15 clr.

i could go pure and get the capstones or go 17/3 fvs and get more light sp.

thoughts?

What do you get with 3 fvs and 2 pally that make those worth mixing with cleric? The spell lists are (nearly) the same. They are all variations on the fighting healer type. But then, I like to start with pure before I start multi-classing things.

Hobgoblin
01-28-2015, 11:41 PM
What do you get with 3 fvs and 2 pally that make those worth mixing with cleric? The spell lists are (nearly) the same. They are all variations on the fighting healer type. But then, I like to start with pure before I start multi-classing things.

i get the fvs tree that gives me more light spellpower

from pally i get my cha bonus to saves - and prr if i want to go that route

hob

FuzzyDuck81
01-29-2015, 06:15 AM
i get the fvs tree that gives me more light spellpower

from pally i get my cha bonus to saves - and prr if i want to go that route

hob

Any particular reason for the 3rd fvs level? Maybe 2 fvs for those in AoV, then 3 paladin to cram in the sacred defender stance for the bonus to PRR & MRR - if the enhancements will fit without losing too much elsewhere, anyway.

Braegan
01-29-2015, 06:26 AM
I have a morning lord cleric that im trying to use as a light spec. originally, my plan was 15 clr/ 3 fvs/ 2 pally - but am having fun with it at just 15 clr.

i could go pure and get the capstones or go 17/3 fvs and get more light sp.

thoughts?

Well if going for Light Spammer 3 FvS is very nice due to access to Shield of Condemnation, which can add up to +50% damage from Light spells. That's a pretty large argument against pure. as far as 15 or 17 cleric, to me that boils down to the question are you going to have a workable Implosion DC? If yes then deff go 17/3.

Blackheartox
01-29-2015, 06:35 AM
Well if going for Light Spammer 3 FvS is very nice due to access to Shield of Condemnation, which can add up to +50% damage from Light spells. That's a pretty large argument against pure. as far as 15 or 17 cleric, to me that boils down to the question are you going to have a workable Implosion DC? If yes then deff go 17/3.

This is the reply you want to look at

Eclaveriia
01-29-2015, 07:01 AM
While getting Favored Soul offers a bit more light damage I don't know if it makes up for some of the other goodies you will loose out on in a light speced cleric build. In the End it really depends on your personal play style.
My play style tends to be Blind the enemies, DPS with light, heal teammates as needed. Unless we know your play style we cant really recommend a specific level and class mix you will be happy with.

While clerics are not heal bots a cleric needs to be willing to heal their party when neccessary. And 15 levels of cleric can provide enough for the needs of the healing role. I would still recommend 17 if possible so as to have Mass Heal.

I needed 41 points in Divine Desciple and 33 in Radient Servent to get what I wanted in my enhancements in a light spec build.

Sunburst requires you to get 18 cleric levels to qualify for the core its part of in Divine Disciple, It is worth it on a caster build as it causes long lasting blindness in an AOE. Sunburst and Sunbeam are very reliable in Epic Levels as a form of damage control. I also wanted Word of Balance which is part of the Divine Disciple Capstone. The DD capstone also opens up Power Word: Stun, Necrotic Ray, and Enervation as spells from the Dark Side.

The 33 Points in radiant Servant is for Radiant Aura and Radiant Burst.

If you don't care for sunburst or the spells the capstone offers then 17/3 is the way to go due to shield of condemnation. If you want the spells pure is the way to go.

slarden
01-29-2015, 07:27 AM
I would either go 17 cleric / 3 fvs, 15 cleric / 2 fvs / 3 pal or 15 cleric / 5 fvs

15 cleric / 5fvs will offer the best overall offense. 15 cleric / 2 fvs/ 3 pal will provide the best defense with good offense and 17 cleric / 3 fvs gives you access to energy drain. They all have pluses and minuses and all will work. Of course if you want to be dc-based (necro or evoc) you can go 20 cleric. I think splashes are better for clerics though. DC casting is a total SP drain with a class that has a smaller sp pool.

I wouldn't splash 2 pal for the DG - it's not worth it. Go 3 pal if you want to splash pal.

slarden
01-29-2015, 07:34 AM
While clerics are not heal bots a cleric needs to be willing to heal their party when neccessary. And 15 levels of cleric can provide enough for the needs of the healing role. I would still recommend 17 if possible so as to have Mass Heal.

Mass Heal was a necessary and useful spell for shroud back in the day when healers were spamming mass heals. I think the maximized/empowered mass cure moderate SLA from Exalted Angel is all you need with a backup mass cure serious just in case. The only compelling reason to take level 9 spells is for energy drain, implosion (if DC based) and for the extra 1 DC heighten gives you from having level 9 spells (if DC based).

Blackheartox
01-29-2015, 07:53 AM
I would either go 17 cleric / 3 fvs, 15 cleric / 2 fvs / 3 pal or 15 cleric / 5 fvs

15 cleric / 5fvs will offer the best overall offense. 15 cleric / 2 fvs/ 3 pal will provide the best defense with good offense and 17 cleric / 3 fvs gives you access to energy drain. They all have pluses and minuses and all will work. Of course if you want to be dc-based (necro or evoc) you can go 20 cleric. I think splashes are better for clerics though. DC casting is a total SP drain with a class that has a smaller sp pool.

I wouldn't splash 2 pal for the DG - it's not worth it. Go 3 pal if you want to splash pal.

Yo, question about this part, do you have 3 arcane alatricities and tried to play a implosion cleric with evocation cd twisted from magister?
If no, try it then repeat what you wrote again.
Also a light spaming cleric in exalted is highly sp efficient, if you do not believe me try it out.
You can easy peasy without pots solo tracker giant as cleric on ee.
Compared to fsoul and wizz that are both terrible at that cleric ends up being pretty good

Blackheartox
01-29-2015, 07:56 AM
While getting Favored Soul offers a bit more light damage I don't know if it makes up for some of the other goodies you will loose out on in a light speced cleric build. In the End it really depends on your personal play style.
My play style tends to be Blind the enemies, DPS with light, heal teammates as needed. Unless we know your play style we cant really recommend a specific level and class mix you will be happy with.

While clerics are not heal bots a cleric needs to be willing to heal their party when neccessary. And 15 levels of cleric can provide enough for the needs of the healing role. I would still recommend 17 if possible so as to have Mass Heal.

I needed 41 points in Divine Desciple and 33 in Radient Servent to get what I wanted in my enhancements in a light spec build.

Sunburst requires you to get 18 cleric levels to qualify for the core its part of in Divine Disciple, It is worth it on a caster build as it causes long lasting blindness in an AOE. Sunburst and Sunbeam are very reliable in Epic Levels as a form of damage control. I also wanted Word of Balance which is part of the Divine Disciple Capstone. The DD capstone also opens up Power Word: Stun, Necrotic Ray, and Enervation as spells from the Dark Side.

The 33 Points in radiant Servant is for Radiant Aura and Radiant Burst.

If you don't care for sunburst or the spells the capstone offers then 17/3 is the way to go due to shield of condemnation. If you want the spells pure is the way to go.

Why would a non tree cleric ever spend a single point into radiant tree?
2nd, sunburst is horrible in epic content, sunbeam is amazing, sunburst even full wisdom based doesnt have sure hit chance to kill vampires /even tho i have managed several times to kill the guards in ee vol with a sunburst but that was on a +6 tome max wisdom type of cleric that used pots and abi cookies and fully stacked at lv 28 while they were debuffed from a druids ice storm with mantle.
And last thing, you dont pick lv 9 spells on cleric for mass heal, you pick it for 1 dc from heighten energy drain and implosion.
Nothing outside of those 2 spells are worth it from lv 9 spells

Dalsheel
01-29-2015, 09:07 AM
Also a light spaming cleric in exalted is highly sp efficient, if you do not believe me try it out.
You can easy peasy without pots solo tracker giant as cleric on ee.
Compared to fsoul and wizz that are both terrible at that cleric ends up being pretty good

Funny... but in all my cleric lives (7 so far) I always felt way behind on DPS compared to all my FvS lives (7 so far)

And yes, I have played with the new Trees, with 3x Arcane Alacrity and whatever else you can think off.

I may be doing something terribly wrong on the cleric or something amazingly good on the FvS, but that's what my experience has shown me so far.

PS: all those lives were pure classed, light damage speced Evokers.

SirValentine
01-29-2015, 02:50 PM
Why would a non tree cleric ever spend a single point into radiant tree?


Wisdom, mainly, with a bit of zero-SP healing thrown in. My Cleric spends 22 points there, for +2 Wisdom and Positive Energy Burst, along with a bunch of junk. I suppose I could swap with the 12 I spend in Warpriest for +1 Wisdom and come out equal, but I find that stuff even less useful to me.



sunburst is horrible in epic content


I find Sunburst pretty useful on my Cleric, both for the insta-kill against Light-fearing Undead, and the blinding against regular mobs. I don't use it as a primary damage source, though.

SirValentine
01-29-2015, 02:52 PM
Funny... but in all my cleric lives (7 so far) I always felt way behind on DPS compared to all my FvS lives (7 so far)

And yes, I have played with the new Trees, with 3x Arcane Alacrity and whatever else you can think off.

I may be doing something terribly wrong on the cleric or something amazingly good on the FvS, but that's what my experience has shown me so far.

PS: all those lives were pure classed, light damage speced Evokers.

That's matched my experience, too. My FvS was far more DPS than my Cleric is.

firemedium_jt
01-29-2015, 04:13 PM
Funny... but in all my cleric lives (7 so far) I always felt way behind on DPS compared to all my FvS lives (7 so far)

And yes, I have played with the new Trees, with 3x Arcane Alacrity and whatever else you can think off.

I may be doing something terribly wrong on the cleric or something amazingly good on the FvS, but that's what my experience has shown me so far.

PS: all those lives were pure classed, light damage speced Evokers.

What were the builds on the 7 Cleric lives? All pure then yeah.

Now my melee clerics seem to always have enough mana to either raid heal or DOT bosses. I have to say I barely use half my mana most of the time if even that. I always seem to see Favs run out of mana, and that is from all the free healing Clerics get. As for Melee you can splash more on Clerics. I build my Clerics to survive with Pally splashes now and they can stand toe to toe in most content with the Aura healing those around them. Favs are better casters due to that mana pool and after they run out how good are they.

I hardly use rest shrines with my Melee Cleric anymore in the game.

Wipey
01-29-2015, 04:40 PM
2nd, sunburst is horrible in epic content, sunbeam is amazing, sunburst even full wisdom based doesnt have sure hit chance to kill vampires /even tho i have managed several times to kill the guards in ee vol with a sunburst but that was on a +6 tome max wisdom type of cleric that used pots and abi cookies and fully stacked at lv 28 while they were debuffed from a druids ice storm with mantle.

Sunburst has been bugged since Enhancement pass, no spell pen check, no save blind and light fearing undead instakill.
Why do you think cleric gets invited to blind elite Mod archers or get 200 kills in elite Deathwyrm.

It's certainly not for uber dps, too many casters mod is just 30+ minutes drag.

Cleric doing more damage than fvs thanks to the uber Searing Light SLA that does third of the damage of Avenging or both Sunbolt SLAs, third of the damage of Call Lightning sla or Necrotic ray/Scorch. It's funny as ever.
Fvs does more damage, higher spellpower, spell crits and archon. Oh and Just rewards.

SirValentine
01-29-2015, 04:56 PM
Why do you think cleric gets invited to blind elite Mod archers or get 200 kills in elite Deathwyrm.


Hey, some of us get many of those Deathwyrm kills fair and square! Via Undeath to Death, Implosion, Mass Frog, and, heck, there's even a few mobs you can use Destruction or Slay Living on.

SirValentine
01-29-2015, 04:59 PM
I hardly use rest shrines with my Melee Cleric anymore in the game.

With my caster Cleric, my philosophy is that if you're not pretty much running on empty as you get to the shrine, you weren't trying hard enough. :-)

Braegan
01-30-2015, 12:28 AM
Funny... but in all my cleric lives (7 so far) I always felt way behind on DPS compared to all my FvS lives (7 so far)

And yes, I have played with the new Trees, with 3x Arcane Alacrity and whatever else you can think off.

I may be doing something terribly wrong on the cleric or something amazingly good on the FvS, but that's what my experience has shown me so far.

PS: all those lives were pure classed, light damage speced Evokers.

Your experiences are completely correct for pure classes.

However, that small splash of 3 FvS to a Cleric adds an upwards bonus up to 50% more damage. I will say it again FIFTY PERCENT! How many other classes can say they can benefit 50% more damage by splashing 3x?

That is why a pure FvS will smoke a pure Cleric in terms of DPS. But a 17 Clr/3 FvS will do nearly the same but at cheap SP cost Slas, while benefiting from Just Rewards, keeping lvl 9 spells, etc. Low hanging fruit from the FvS tree that is more advantageous to splashing than it is to reward a pure FvS.

Blackheartox
01-30-2015, 03:05 AM
Your experiences are completely correct for pure classes.

However, that small splash of 3 FvS to a Cleric adds an upwards bonus up to 50% more damage. I will say it again FIFTY PERCENT! How many other classes can say they can benefit 50% more damage by splashing 3x?

That is why a pure FvS will smoke a pure Cleric in terms of DPS. But a 17 Clr/3 FvS will do nearly the same but at cheap SP cost Slas, while benefiting from Just Rewards, keeping lvl 9 spells, etc. Low hanging fruit from the FvS tree that is more advantageous to splashing than it is to reward a pure FvS.

Another thing to add, while archon is all cool and everything, its only good because you can bug it with archmage or similar stuff.
But on the long run slas from dd will easy outdps archon on a 17/3 split, easily outdps.

Also keep in mind, if people called 12 monk 6 fighter 2 paladins and 12 monk 6 ranger 2 palie builds then we can call 17 cleric 3 favored soul, cleric as well ;)

Thing about favored soul is that it is one of the best multiclass classes and we all know it, but pure its rather horrible.
A 3 favored soul splash puts cleric way above favored soul in terms of dc casting.
Turn it around, splash cleric on fsoul, and what do you get?
Apsolutely nothing. Amybe harmor profici and some light spp crit and spellpower
Its not a both sided love, its a love tha makes only cleric happy while favored soul is just used and thrown away.

Again i personally think and we might not share opinions that 17 cleric/3 favored sould makes the best dc casting and light spp focused divine currently in ddo.

/about sunbeam its ok, sunburst is the bad one maybe i mixed those 2.
The aoe one is horrible and luck based to land it, while the no fail save one (most prolly bugged) is amazing

SirValentine
01-30-2015, 04:40 AM
A 3 favored soul splash puts cleric way above favored soul in terms of dc casting.


Please explain. I'm not seeing it. Wouldn't splashing FvS would hurt DC casting, due to loss of a DC from no capstone, and loss of caster levels for spell pen? What can 3 FvS possibly get you that helps your DC casting?

Eth
01-30-2015, 05:19 AM
Please explain. I'm not seeing it. Wouldn't splashing FvS would hurt DC casting, due to loss of a DC from no capstone, and loss of caster levels for spell pen? What can 3 FvS possibly get you that helps your DC casting?

Context. He was comparing Cleric main with FvS splash vs. FvS main with Cleric splash. The first one has better DCs than the second one.
Pure cleric is still ahead in DCs of any splash but lacks DPS compared to the 3 FvS splash.

Blackheartox
01-30-2015, 05:20 AM
What eth said

Eclaveriia
01-30-2015, 08:38 AM
Any advice we give is just a starting point, what works best for each of us might not be best for you. In the end no matter who's advice you choose to accept expect to adapt and change it to fit better with you own play style and preferences.


Why would a non tree cleric ever spend a single point into radiant tree?


Radiant Aura and Radiant Burst. These 2 can provide most of your healing needs leaving almost all of your spell points available for non-healing duties. These 2 and Heal are all I really need 99% time. And cure serious or critical may be useable instead of heal on fleshy targets a lot of the time. The other 1% is rare circumstances where I need AOE heals or cures.




2nd, sunburst is horrible in epic content, sunbeam is amazing, sunburst even full wisdom based doesnt have sure hit chance to kill vampires /even tho i have managed several times to kill the guards in ee vol with a sunburst but that was on a +6 tome max wisdom type of cleric that used pots and abi cookies and fully stacked at lv 28 while they were debuffed from a druids ice storm with mantle.


Sunburst isn't about DPS at all, it isn't about killing at all. Sunburst is about blinding most targets in its area of effect so that once the enemies are blind he can avoid melee contact and destroy them at his leasure. Blind archers and casters also tend to stop firing /casting and enter melee combat. Sunburst is about mobs swinging at mid air most the time instead of at your fellow party members. A first life cleric can muster enough DC in sunburst to make it very reliable as a blindness agent. While a cleric can DPS it isn't a DPS caster. Sorcerers, favored souls, druids, and wizards can all do it better.



And last thing, you dont pick lv 9 spells on cleric for mass heal, you pick it for 1 dc from heighten energy drain and implosion.
Nothing outside of those 2 spells are worth it from lv 9 spells

Implosion is practically the only spell I use myself from lvl 9 on a regular basis. I suggested Mass Heal because we don't know his play style, his situation, his resources, or his experience level. If he does stuff like team with warforged, he may actually have need of it. Hence why I mensioned that we can't really give accurate advice unless we know about his play style and circumstances.

SirValentine
01-30-2015, 08:19 PM
Context. He was comparing Cleric main with FvS splash vs. FvS main with Cleric splash.


Ah, OK. That was not obvious to me.



Pure cleric is still ahead in DCs of any splash


I think Monk splash is still ahead of pure Cleric for DCs.

slarden
02-01-2015, 04:58 PM
Implosion is practically the only spell I use myself from lvl 9 on a regular basis. I suggested Mass Heal because we don't know his play style, his situation, his resources, or his experience level. If he does stuff like team with warforged, he may actually have need of it. Hence why I mensioned that we can't really give accurate advice unless we know about his play style and circumstances.

Energy drain is very useful against orange names and high hp champs. It can drop hp by 100k with 2 drains.