PDA

View Full Version : Totally Bass Ackwards - An int based, heavy armored, TWF pure tempest ranger



CThruTheEgo
01-21-2015, 01:39 PM
NOTE: I will no longer be updating this build. The ranger enhancement pass made this build concept obsolete (thankfully). See The Divine Cuisinart (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/465697-The-Divine-Cuisinart-A-dual-khopesh-wielding-pure-tempest-ranger-in-divine-crusader) for my new take on a pure tempest after the enhancement pass.

Totally Bass Ackwards, aka Meatshield of Knowledge
Human ranger 20
True neutral
34 point build

This is a dual warhammer wielding, int based tempest ranger that wears heavy armor... totally bass ackwards. I've always wanted to play a pure tempest but the conditions of the game have never been favorable toward such a build, and still are not, to some degree. This build is my attempt at a pure tempest by leveraging various game mechanics that you wouldn't normally think of as typical for a ranger, particularly going int based and wearing heavy armor. Tempests could certainly use a lot of love right now and I don't expect this build to be top of the build chain by any means, but it should still be quite effective and fun.

Full breakdowns are provided below. Comments about the build and build choices are at the bottom of this post. I welcome any feedback about the build and thanks in advance.

Build Features:
Excellent offense:
~118% mainhand/135% offhand attacks
~int to-hit and damage and know the angles with a 54 int
~7 total favored enemies for +14 damage
~exposing strike with 3d6+14 sneak attack damage
~dance of death for solid AoE damage
~simultaneous haste and damage boost
~both power attack and precision for maximum situational effectiveness
~dual warhammers with pulverizer for a crit profile of 17-18x3, 19-20x5
~master's blitz
~ranged option with manyshot
Excellent defense:
~876 base hp
~fort/reflex/will saves: 58/62/50 and 61/65/53 vs favored enemies
~135 PRR (57.45% damage reduction)
~75 MRR (42.86% damage reduction)
~deflect arrows every 2 seconds
Good self healing:
~quickened cure serious wounds with 408 Spell power and 90 heal amp, hits for an average of 304 hp
~quickened cure moderate wounds with 408 Spell power and 90 heal amp, hits for an average of 202 hp
Excellent utility:
~merfolk's... nuf said

Starting Stats:
str: 8
dex: 8
con: 17
int: 18
wis: 13
cha: 8

All level points in int
+5 tomes in str and dex required by levels 24 and 27 respectively. You can also take points from wis and con to negate the need for tomes altogether, but that lowers survivability by a small amount.

Feats:
1 insightful reflexes (khopesh proficiency will be taken here and swapped out in epics)
1h medium armor proficiency
3 heavy armor proficiency
6 point blank shot
9 imp crit blunt (imp crit slash while using khopeshes)
12 imp crit ranged
15 empower healing
18 quicken
21 overwhelming crit
24 power attack
26 perfect two weapon fighting
27 precision
28 elusive target
Note: This is not the ideal feat order for leveling, but it is for endgame because it allows you to optimize starting stats. That said, the only real loss is putting off power attack until epic levels, but heroics are easy anyway so I don't expect this to have a significant impact. Because warhammers are a horrible weapon before epics, I'll be taking khopesh proficiency in place of insightful reflexes. This requires swapping two feats in epics (also imp crit slash to imp crit blunt), but will make the leveling process much more tolerable. The energy damage mitigation from MRR will be sufficient before gaining a solid reflex save from insightful reflexes.

Skills: max UMD, balance, heal, spot, swim, search, hide, move silently, listen, diplo, bluff, intim, spellcraft, 2 full ranks in tumble (4 points spent), 1 rank in jump or concentration
Note: Most of these are nonessential, but the build gets so many skills and you have to spend them somewhere.

Spell List: spells are listed in the order in which they are selected
1st: ram's might, jump, resist energy, merfolk's
2nd: protection from energy, mass camouflage, spike growth, cure light wounds
3rd: cure mod wounds, wild instincts, neutralize poison, remove disease
4th: cure serious wounds, FoM, summon nature's ally, mass longstrider

Favored Enemies: 7 total for +14 damage
Ranger: undead, giants, aberrations, evil outsiders, elementals
Primal avatar tier 2 twist: constructs
Harper tier 3: dragon

Enhancements:
Tempest: 41 total
Core: 6 total
Shield of whirling steel 1 (2 shield bonus to AC when dual wielding, +1 more per additional core)
Tempest 1 (10% offhand attacks, dex to hit with light weapons, treat scimitars as light weapons)
Graceful death 1 (dex to damage with light weapons)
Deflect arrows 1 (gain deflect arrows feat, 10% offhand attacks)
Whirlwind 1 (5% doublestrike)
Dervish 1 (2 dex, 25% offhand doublestrike)
Tier 1: 8 total
Improved defense 6 (deflect arrows every 2 seconds)
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Tier 2: 5 total
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Sprint boost 2 (30% movement speed)
Bleed them out 1 (melee attack, +1[W], inflict bleed, stacks up to 5 times, cooldown 6 seconds)
Tier 3: 5 total
Critical accuracy 3 (3 crit to hit)
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Tier 4: 8 total
Critical damage 3 (3 crit damage)
Growing storm 3 (melee attack, for 15 seconds upon damaging an opponent gain 1 damage for 5 seconds, stacks 10 times, cooldown 30 seconds)
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Tier 5: 9 total
Thousand cuts 3 (melee attack, +5[W], gain 90 doublestrike for 6 seconds, cooldown 2 minutes)
Dance of death 6 (melee attack, +5[W], strike 4 opponents instead of 1 for 10 seconds, cooldown 15 seconds)

Harper: 26 total
Core: 4 total
Agent of good 1 (1 to hit vs evil, 1 universal spell power)
Int 2
Agent of good 1 (2 to hit/damage vs evil, 5 universal spell power)
Tier 1: 4 total
Harper enchantment 2 (1 weapon enhancement, 20 spell points)
Strategic combat I 2 (int to hit)
Tier 2: 6 total
Know the angles 3 (int based divine might)
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Tier 3: 9 total
Strategic combat II 2 (int to damage)
Know your foe 2 (favored enemy: dragons)
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Int 2
Tier 4: 3 total
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)

Deepwood Stalker: 12 total
Core: 3 total
Far shot 1 (sneak attack 1d6, 10 positive spell power, point blank shot +5 meters)
Sneak attack 1 (sneak attack 1d6, 10 positive spell power, point blank shot +5 meters)
Exposing strike 1 (10 positive spell power, point blank shot +5 meters, melee attack: +2[W], +4 to-hit, +1 critical threat and multiplier, on damage target is bluffed for 4 seconds, cooldown 6 seconds)
Tier1: 9 total
Favored resistance 6 (3 saves vs favored enemies)
Stealthy 3 (3 hide, 3 move silently, sneak attack 1d6)

Human: 1 total
Core: 1 total
Damage boost 1 (20% damage)

Epic Destiny:
Legendary Dreadnaught
Tier 1: 4 total
Extra action boost 2
Con 2
Tier 2: 4 total
Improved power attack 2 (+0.5[W] while power attack active)
Con 2
Tier 3: 6 total
Critical damage 3 (+6 crit damage)
Haste boost 3 (30% attack speed)
Tier 4: 2 total
Anvil of thunder 2 (melee attack, 100 sonic damage, target is stunned for 6 seconds on crit, 10d100 sonic damage on vorpal, cooldown 12 seconds)
Tier 5: 4 total
Advancing blows 2 (+1 hit/damage on crit hit, stacks 5 times)
Devestating critical 2 (+1 crit multiplier on 19-20)
Tier 6: 4 total
Master's blitz PRR version 2 (7 melee/ranged power for 15 seconds, 10% chance on hit to gain another stack, stacks 10 times, 30 PRR)
Pulverizer 2 (+1 critical threat range with blunt weapons)

Twists:
1) Balanced attacks (primal avatar tier 3, 6 to-hit, knockdown for 2 seconds on vorpal)
2) Favored enemy: constructs (primal avatar tier 2)
3) Impregnable mind (magister tier 1, concentration 6, will save 6, no longer auto fail will save on 1)
Alternatives: energy burst fire, symmetric strikes, rejuvenation cocoon, energy sheathe electric, brace for impact, sense weakness, hail of blows

Gear Set:
Weapons: mainhand: Thunder-Forged Warhammer (1st degree burns/paralyzing fear/mortal fear/red slotted devotion138/colorless slotted)
offhand: Thunder-Forged Warhammer (touch of flames/dragon's edge/mortal fear/red slotted meteoric star ruby/colorless slotted)
ranged: Thunder-Forged Longbow (touch of flames/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted devotion138/colorless slotted)
Armor: Flawless Shadow Dragonplate Armor with shadow guardian upgrade (shadow phase x3/deathblock/ghostly/fort130/DR30 epic/DR60 epic below 75% health/blue slotted HP40/green slotted max dex2)
Goggles: EN Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot17/TS/yellow slotted cha2/colorless slotted heal15)
Helm: Mythic Minos Legens (fort150/vitality45/fort save10/sheltering30/insightful con3/unbreakable adamancy/yellow slotted sonic resistance40/green slotted Globe of True Imperial Blood)
Neck: Epic Shroud of Ardent (sheltering30/blur/fear immunity/heal amp60/blue slotted golem's heart/green slotted crushing wave guard)
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead (turn the page/profane abilities2/attack4/damage4/light of dawn/blue OR yellow slotted wis8/green slotted wis2)
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (exc seeker5/dodge8/attack4/diversion20)
Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance (deathblock7/con11/concentration20/resistance11/dodge11/greater regen/blue OR yellow slotted proof against poison10/green slotted proof against disease10)
Ring swap: EE Consuming Darkness (seeker12/combat mastery5/green slotted blindness immunity)
Gloves: EE Backstabber's Gloves (bluff20/sneak attack5/exc sneak attack3/improved deception/yellow slotted cha8)
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (resistance11/speed15/GH/vertigo12/stunning12/shatter12/blue slotted good luck2/green slotted protection8)
Ring: Epic Eye of the Beholder (absorb doomsphere spells8/deathblock7/int11/wizardry10/blue OR yellow slotted str8/green slotted water breathing)
Bracers: Epic Ethereal Bracers (dex11/riposte9/insight AC5/insight saves4/ghostly/deadly10/speed14/feather falling/yellow slotted draconic soul gem/green slotted natural armor8)
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity (concentration -50/speed15/ranged and spell threat -15%/insightful sneak4/doublshot8)

Final Stats:
str27: 8 base, 6 tome, 8 item, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
dex32: 8 base, 6 tome, 11 item, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
con46: 17 base, 6 tome, 2 dreadnaught, 11 item, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship, 2 yugo
int54: 18 base, 6 tome, 7 levels, 11 item, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship, 2 yugo, 2 harper
wis34: 13 base, 6 tome, 8 item, 2 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
cha29: 8 base, 6 tome, 8 item, 2 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
Note: The only required tomes are +5 in str and dex by levels 24 and 27 respectively.

HP:
160 base
25 heroic durability
20 improved heroic durability
10 draconic vitality
80 epic levels
476 con44
40 slotted false life
45 vitality
20 hag's apothecary ship buff
876 BASE
28 rage
48 Yugo
950 SELF BUFFED

SP:
260 base
250 wiz10
336 wis34
20 harper enchantment
866 TOTAL

Fort/Reflex/Will Saves:
12/12/6 base
4/4/4 epic
11/11/11 item
4/4/4 insight
2/2/2 good luck
1/1/1 alchemical
4/4/4 greater heroism
0/0/6 impregnable mind
3/0/0 game hunter ship buff
0/2/0 chronoscope ship buff
0/0/2 grandmaster's dojo ship buff
17/0/0 con44
0/22/0 int54
0/0/12 wis34
58/62/50 TOTAL
3/3/3 favored enemy resistance
61/65/53 total against favored enemies

Dodge:
11 belt
11 TOTAL, MDB is 6
Max dex bonus on shadowplate armor is 6 with blue slotted armored agility and fencing master ship buff

PRR:
45 heavy armor
30 BAB
30 item
30 master's blitz
135 total (57.45% damage reduction)

MRR:
45 heavy armor
30 item
75 total (42.86% damage reduction)

Heal Amp:
10 past life paladin
60 Shroud of Ardent
20 ship buff
90 TOTAL

Positive Spell Power:
23 ranks
8 epic
3 tome
12 wis34
30 deepwood stalker
6 harper agent of good
9 harper versatile adept
39 implement
138 red augment
15 slotted
2 good luck
1 elite spider cult mask
3 forbidden library ship buff
15 crusader's chapel
4 GH
25 superior ardor pot
75 empower healing
408 TOTAL

Mainhand Strike Chance:
100 base
5 perfect two weapon fighting
5 tempest core 5
8 item
118% MAINHAND

Offhand Strike Chance:
80 greater two weapon fighting
10 tempest core 2
10 tempest core 4
10 perfect two weapon fighting
25 tempest capstone
135% OFFHAND

Comments:
This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion, but instead I prefer to use heavy armor because that will help mitigate damage from physical attacks. And with the benefit of a high reflex save, as well as high MRR from heavy armor, elemental damage shouldn't be a problem. Although heavy armor requires two feats, the survivability benefits should more than justify the cost.

I considered going str based with int secondary, but they end up with nearly the same dps while int based has better survivability. They end up nearly the same because this build will not have access to many of the options for boosting str (i.e. power surge, divine might, rage, primal scream). Ignoring str means being able to maximize defenses through starting stats (i.e. hp, will and reflex saves).

Going int based, I also considered twisting energy burst fire. With max ranks in spellcraft (11) and the Epic Bracers of the Inferno, you can get 312 fire spell power. The Inferno Bracers are otherwise useless and also take the same slot as the Epic Ethereal Bracers which provides +4 insight saves and deadly 10, so the Inferno Bracers would have to be a swap in only. You also have 0% spell crit unless you swap in another item such as the Epic Cloak of Flames or a greensteel item with fire lore. Because this build gets plenty of skills, I'm still investing in spellcraft in case I decide to use energy burst, but I think dance of death should provide sufficient AoE dps without needing to resort to energy burst.

Loromir
01-21-2015, 02:26 PM
Totally Bass Ackwards
Human ranger 20
True neutral
34 point build
In-game name: will soon be Gardiun of Gnosis on Sarlona after I TR him into this

This is a dual warhammer wielding, int based tempest ranger that wears heavy armor... totally bass ackwards. I've always wanted to play a pure tempest but the conditions of the game have never been favorable toward such a build, and still are not, to some degree. This build is my attempt at a pure tempest by leveraging various game mechanics that you wouldn't normally think of as typical for a ranger, particularly going int based and wearing heavy armor. Tempests could certainly use a lot of love right now and I don't expect this build to be top of the build chain by any means, but it should still be quite effective and fun.

Full breakdowns are provided below. Comments about the build and build choices are at the bottom of this post. I welcome any feedback about the build and thanks in advance.

Build Features:
Excellent offense:
~113% mainhand/135% offhand attacks
~int to-hit and damage and know the angles with a 54 int
~7 total favored enemies for +14 damage
~exposing strike with 3d6+14 sneak attack damage
~dance of death for solid AoE damage
~simultaneous haste and damage boost
~both power attack and precision for maximum situational effectiveness
~dual warhammers with pulverizer for a crit profile of 17-18x3, 19-20x5
~master's blitz
~ranged option with manyshot
Excellent defense:
~876 base hp
~fort/reflex/will saves: 58/62/50 and 61/65/53 vs favored enemies
~135 PRR (57.45% damage reduction)
~75 MRR (42.86% damage reduction)
~deflect arrows every 2 seconds
Good self healing:
~quickened cure serious wounds with 408 Spell power and 90 heal amp, hits for an average of 304 hp
~quickened cure moderate wounds with 408 Spell power and 90 heal amp, hits for an average of 202 hp
Excellent utility:
~merfolk's... nuf said

Starting Stats:
str: 8
dex: 8
con: 17
int: 18
wis: 13
cha: 8

All level points in int
+5 tomes in str and dex required by levels 24 and 27 respectively. You can also take points from wis and con to negate the need for tomes altogether, but that lowers survivability by a small amount.

Feats:
1 insightful reflexes
1h medium armor proficiency
3 heavy armor proficiency
6 point blank shot
9 imp crit blunt
12 imp crit ranged
15 empower healing
18 quicken
21 overwhelming crit
24 power attack
26 perfect two weapon fighting
27 precision
28 elusive target
Note: This is not the ideal feat order for leveling, but it is for endgame because it allows you to optimize starting stats. That said, the only real loss is putting off power attack until epic levels, but heroics are easy anyway so I don't expect this to have a significant impact. You could also take khopesh proficiency instead of point blank shot until epic levels, but that requires swapping two feats (imp crit blunt).

Skills: max UMD, balance, heal, spot, swim, search, hide, move silently, listen, diplo, bluff, intim, spellcraft, 2 full ranks in tumble (4 points spent), 1 rank in jump or concentration
Note: Most of these are nonessential, but the build gets so many skills and you have to spend them somewhere.

Spell List: spells are listed in the order in which they are selected
1st: jump, ram's might, resist energy, merfolk's
2nd: protection from energy, mass camouflage, spike growth, cure light wounds
3rd: cure mod wounds, wild instincts, neutralize poison, remove disease
4th: cure serious wounds, FoM, summon nature's ally, mass longstrider

Favored Enemies: 7 total for +14 damage
Ranger: undead, giants, aberrations, evil outsiders, elementals
Primal avatar tier 2 twist: constructs
Harper tier 3: dragon

Enhancements:
Tempest: 41 total
Core: 6 total
Shield of whirling steel 1 (2 shield bonus to AC when dual wielding, +1 more per additional core)
Tempest 1 (10% offhand attacks, dex to hit with light weapons, treat scimitars as light weapons)
Graceful death 1 (dex to damage with light weapons)
Deflect arrows 1 (gain deflect arrows feat, 10% offhand attacks)
Whirlwind 1 (5% doublestrike)
Dervish 1 (2 dex, 25% offhand doublestrike)
Tier 1: 8 total
Improved defense 6 (deflect arrows every 2 seconds)
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Tier 2: 5 total
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Sprint boost 2 (30% movement speed)
Bleed them out 1 (melee attack, +1[W], inflict bleed, stacks up to 5 times, cooldown 6 seconds)
Tier 3: 4 total
Critical accuracy 2 (2 crit to hit)
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Tier 4: 9 total
Critical damage 4 (2 crit damage)
Growing storm 3 (melee attack, for 15 seconds upon damaging an opponent gain 1 damage for 5 seconds, stacks 10 times, cooldown 30 seconds)
Whirling blades 2 (1 to hit and damage when dual wielding)
Tier 5: 9 total
Thousand cuts 3 (melee attack, +5[W], gain 90 doublestrike for 6 seconds, cooldown 2 minutes)
Dance of death 6 (melee attack, +5[W], strike 4 opponents instead of 1 for 10 seconds, cooldown 15 seconds)

Harper: 26 total
Core: 4 total
Agent of good 1 (1 to hit vs evil, 1 universal spell power)
Int 2
Agent of good 1 (2 to hit/damage vs evil, 5 universal spell power)
Tier 1: 4 total
Harper enchantment 2 (1 weapon enhancement, 20 spell points)
Strategic combat I 2 (int to hit)
Tier 2: 6 total
Know the angles 3 (int based divine might)
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Tier 3: 9 total
Strategic combat II 2 (int to damage)
Know your foe 2 (favored enemy: dragons)
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Int 2
Tier 4: 3 total
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)

Deepwood Stalker: 12 total
Core: 3 total
Far shot 1 (sneak attack 1d6, 10 positive spell power, point blank shot +5 meters)
Sneak attack 1 (sneak attack 1d6, 10 positive spell power, point blank shot +5 meters)
Exposing strike 1 (10 positive spell power, point blank shot +5 meters, melee attack: +2[W], +4 to-hit, +1 critical threat and multiplier, on damage target is bluffed for 4 seconds, cooldown 6 seconds)
Tier1: 9 total
Favored resistance 6 (3 saves vs favored enemies)
Stealthy 3 (3 hide, 3 move silently, sneak attack 1d6)

Human: 1 total
Core: 1 total
Damage boost 1 (20% damage)

Epic Destiny:
Legendary Dreadnaught
Tier 1: 4 total
Extra action boost 2
Str 2
Tier 2: 4 total
Improved power attack 2 (+0.5[W] while power attack active)
Str 2
Tier 3: 6 total
Critical damage 3 (+6 crit damage)
Haste boost 3 (30% attack speed)
Tier 4: 2 total
Anvil of thunder 2 (melee attack, 100 sonic damage, target is stunned for 6 seconds on crit, 10d100 sonic damage on vorpal, cooldown 12 seconds)
Tier 5: 4 total
Advancing blows 2 (+1 hit/damage on crit hit, stacks 5 times)
Devestating critical 2 (+1 crit multiplier on 19-20)
Tier 6: 4 total
Master's blitz PRR version 2 (7 melee/ranged power for 15 seconds, 10% chance on hit to gain another stack, stacks 10 times, 30 PRR)
Pulverizer 2 (+1 critical threat range with blunt weapons)

Twists:
1) Balanced attacks (primal avatar tier 3, 6 to-hit, knockdown for 2 seconds on vorpal)
2) Favored enemy: constructs (primal avatar tier 2)
3) Impregnable mind (magister tier 1, concentration 6, will save 6, no longer auto fail will save on 1)
Alternatives: energy burst fire, symmetric strikes, rejuvenation cocoon, energy sheathe electric, brace for impact, sense weakness, hail of blows

Gear Set:
Weapons: mainhand: Thunder-Forged Warhammer (1st degree burns/paralyzing fear/mortal fear/red slotted devotion138/colorless slotted)
offhand: Thunder-Forged Warhammer (touch of flames/dragon's edge/mortal fear/red slotted meteoric star ruby/colorless slotted)
ranged: Thunder-Forged Longbow (touch of flames/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted devotion138/colorless slotted)
Armor: Flawless Shadow Dragonplate Armor with shadow guardian upgrade (shadow phase x3/deathblock/ghostly/fort130/DR30 epic/DR60 epic below 75% health/blue slotted HP40/green slotted max dex2)
Goggles: EN Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot17/TS/yellow slotted cha2/colorless slotted heal15)
Helm: Mythic Minos Legens (fort150/vitality45/fort save10/sheltering30/insightful con3/unbreakable adamancy/yellow slotted sonic resistance40/green slotted Globe of True Imperial Blood)
Neck: Epic Shroud of Ardent (sheltering30/blur/fear immunity/heal amp60/blue slotted golem's heart/green slotted crushing wave guard)
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead (turn the page/profane abilities2/attack4/damage4/light of dawn/blue OR yellow slotted wis8/green slotted wis2)
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (exc seeker5/dodge8/attack4/diversion20)
Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance (deathblock7/con11/concentration20/resistance11/dodge11/greater regen/blue OR yellow slotted proof against poison10/green slotted proof against disease10)
Ring swap: EE Consuming Darkness (seeker12/combat mastery5/green slotted blindness immunity)
Gloves: EE Backstabber's Gloves (bluff20/sneak attack5/exc sneak attack3/improved deception/yellow slotted cha8)
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (resistance11/speed15/GH/vertigo12/stunning12/shatter12/blue slotted good luck2/green slotted protection8)
Ring: Epic Eye of the Beholder (absorb doomsphere spells8/deathblock7/int11/wizardry10/blue OR yellow slotted str8/green slotted water breathing)
Bracers: Epic Ethereal Bracers (dex11/riposte9/insight AC5/insight saves4/ghostly/deadly10/speed14/feather falling/yellow slotted draconic soul gem/green slotted natural armor8)
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity (concentration -50/speed15/ranged and spell threat -15%/insightful sneak4/doublshot8)

Final Stats:
str27: 8 base, 6 tome, 8 item, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
dex32: 8 base, 6 tome, 11 item, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
con44: 17 base, 6 tome, 11 item, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship, 2 yugo
int54: 18 base, 6 tome, 7 levels, 11 item, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship, 2 yugo, 2 harper
wis34: 13 base, 6 tome, 8 item, 2 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
cha29: 8 base, 6 tome, 8 item, 2 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship
Note: The only required tomes are +5 in str and dex by levels 24 and 27 respectively.

HP:
160 base
25 heroic durability
20 improved heroic durability
10 draconic vitality
80 epic levels
476 con44
40 slotted false life
45 vitality
20 hag's apothecary ship buff
876 BASE
28 rage
48 Yugo
950 SELF BUFFED

SP:
260 base
250 wiz10
336 wis34
20 harper enchantment
866 TOTAL

Fort/Reflex/Will Saves:
12/12/6 base
4/4/4 epic
11/11/11 item
4/4/4 insight
2/2/2 good luck
1/1/1 alchemical
4/4/4 greater heroism
0/0/6 impregnable mind
3/0/0 game hunter ship buff
0/2/0 chronoscope ship buff
0/0/2 grandmaster's dojo ship buff
17/0/0 con44
0/22/0 int54
0/0/12 wis34
58/62/50 TOTAL
3/3/3 favored enemy resistance
61/65/53 total against favored enemies

Dodge:
11 belt
11 TOTAL, MDB is 6
Max dex bonus on shadowplate armor is 6 with blue slotted armored agility and fencing master ship buff

PRR:
45 heavy armor
30 BAB
30 item
30 master's blitz
135 total (57.45% damage reduction)

MRR:
45 heavy armor
30 item
75 total (42.86% damage reduction)

Heal Amp:
10 past life paladin
60 Shroud of Ardent
20 ship buff
90 TOTAL

Positive Spell Power:
23 ranks
8 epic
3 tome
12 wis34
30 deepwood stalker
6 harper agent of good
9 harper versatile adept
39 implement
138 red augment
15 slotted
2 good luck
1 elite spider cult mask
3 forbidden library ship buff
15 crusader's chapel
4 GH
25 superior ardor pot
75 empower healing
408 TOTAL

Mainhand Strike Chance:
100 base
5 perfect two weapon fighting
5 tempest core 5
8 item
113% MAINHAND

Offhand Strike Chance:
80 greater two weapon fighting
10 tempest core 2
10 tempest core 4
10 perfect two weapon fighting
25 tempest capstone
135% OFFHAND

Comments:
This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion, but heavy armor will help mitigate damage from physical attacks. And with the benefit of a high reflex save as well as high MRR from heavy armor, elemental damage shouldn't be a problem. Although heavy armor requires two feats, the survivability benefits should more than justify the cost.

I considered going str based with int secondary, but they end up with nearly the same dps while int based has better survivability. They end up nearly the same because this build will not have access to many of the options for boosting str (i.e. power surge, divine might, rage, primal scream). Ignoring str means being able to maximize defenses through starting stats (i.e. hp and will save).

Going int based, I also considered twisting energy burst fire. With max ranks in spellcraft (11) and the Epic Bracers of the Inferno, you can get 312 fire spell power. The Inferno Bracers are otherwise useless and also take the same slot as the Epic Ethereal Bracers which provides +4 insight saves and deadly 10, so the Inferno Bracers would have to be a swap in only. You also have 0% spell crit unless you swap in another item such as the Epic Cloak of Flames or a greensteel item with fire lore. Because this build gets plenty of skills, I'm still investing in spellcraft in case I decide to use energy burst, but I think dance of death should provide sufficient AoE dps without needing to resort to energy burst.



I'm having a hard time figuring out what you get from intel based opposed to str based. More skill points for sure...what other reason to go intel vs str?

Also, you can't evade in heavy armor.

Missing_Minds
01-21-2015, 02:30 PM
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you get from intel based opposed to str based. More skill points for sure...what other reason to go intel vs str?

Also, you can't evade in heavy armor.
Some times you just got to have fun. My wife is one of those types of players that has to have skill points for skills in order to have fun. (And no, the OP is not my wife.)

Go have fun, OP.

Grailhawk
01-21-2015, 02:44 PM
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you get from intel based opposed to str based. More skill points for sure...what other reason to go intel vs str?

Also, you can't evade in heavy armor.

He consolidates Damage, Hit, Ranged Damage, Ranged Hit, and Relfex save into one stat. No you can not evade in heavy armor.

MadCookieQueen
01-21-2015, 02:44 PM
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you get from intel based opposed to str based. More skill points for sure...what other reason to go intel vs str?

Also, you can't evade in heavy armor.


You know...variety is the spice of life and we have more opportunities to use things other than STR for combat and have some effectiveness. I think this is all about having fun and doing something funky with it.

As for heavy armor as I found out with my melee Wizard...in EE content, it's better to have the PRR than the evasion. evasion is pretty squishy against many things. so the trade off makes sense.

CThruTheEgo
01-21-2015, 02:44 PM
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you get from intel based opposed to str based. More skill points for sure...what other reason to go intel vs str?

Also, you can't evade in heavy armor.

Both points are addressed in the comments section at the end of the OP, so I'll just quote those sections:


Comments:
This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion, but heavy armor will help mitigate damage from physical attacks. And with the benefit of a high reflex save as well as high MRR from heavy armor, elemental damage shouldn't be a problem. Although heavy armor requires two feats, the survivability benefits should more than justify the cost.

I considered going str based with int secondary, but they end up with nearly the same dps while int based has better survivability. They end up nearly the same because this build will not have access to many of the options for boosting str (i.e. power surge, divine might, rage, primal scream). Ignoring str means being able to maximize defenses through starting stats (i.e. hp and will save).

Magic/element damage isn't a problem. Physical damage is. Heavy armor reduces that problem and doesn't really change the ability to cope with magic/element damage.

In addition to what's noted above, int based is also able to get a solid reflex save which, coupled with the MRR from heavy armor, makes magic/element damage a non-issue.

CThruTheEgo
01-21-2015, 02:47 PM
it's better to have the PRR than the evasion. evasion is pretty squishy against many things. so the trade off makes sense.

^This exactly. Plus, the addition of MRR significantly reduces the damage taken from evadable sources.

Loromir
01-21-2015, 02:50 PM
For the record...I wasn't intending to be critical...just trying to understand.

My comment about evasion was in response to the comment... "This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion".

CThruTheEgo
01-21-2015, 02:56 PM
For the record...I wasn't intending to be critical...just trying to understand.

I welcome the comments kinggartk. The build is more than a little counterintuitive, so I don't expect the synergy to be completely obvious at first glance, but I think it's definitely there.


My comment about evasion was in response to the comment... "This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion".

Which it definitely does, but tempest rangers are typically thought of as "glass cannons," so heavy armor is a way to deal with that without really losing any of the survivability against magic/element damage.

Mindos
01-21-2015, 03:18 PM
I welcome the comments kinggartk. The build is more than a little counterintuitive, so I don't expect the synergy to be completely obvious at first glance, but I think it's definitely there.



Which it definitely does, but tempest rangers are typically thought of as "glass cannons," so heavy armor is a way to deal with that without really losing any of the survivability against magic/element damage.

Can you break down that Con score a little for me? In particular, where is the profane and exceptrional bonus coming from? Also, how long do Yugo pots last, and just from skimming it looks like you counted Yugo twice, maybe not.

CThruTheEgo
01-21-2015, 03:54 PM
Can you break down that Con score a little for me? In particular, where is the profane and exceptrional bonus coming from?

11 from the epic belt of thoughtful remembrance. 3 insight from mythic minos legens. 2 profane from epic litany of the dead. 1 exceptional from the globe of true imperial blood slotted in the helm.


how long do Yugo pots last

15 minutes.


just from skimming it looks like you counted Yugo twice, maybe not.

Good catch. Thanks for pointing it out. Changed the OP.

AbyssalMage
01-21-2015, 04:00 PM
Which it definitely does, but tempest rangers are typically thought of as "glass cannons," so heavy armor is a way to deal with that without really losing any of the survivability against magic/element damage.
First off, let me so thanks for the post. Was thinking of something very similar but going Dwarf 15/3/2 Con based (eliminates the squishy).

CThruTheEgo
01-21-2015, 04:13 PM
I must be missing something because I still don't understand how you expect to get evasion while wearing heavy armor.

I don't. I expect to gain the PRR/MRR benefits of heavy armor while still having a good reflex save (which allows you to save for half damage).

Loromir
01-22-2015, 07:31 AM
11 from the epic belt of thoughtful remembrance. 3 insight from mythic minos legens. 2 profane from epic litany of the dead. 1 exceptional from the globe of true imperial blood slotted in the helm.



15 minutes.



Good catch. Thanks for pointing it out. Changed the OP.


You could factor in the new lasting abiltiy elixr's from the mysterious remnants. I think they are +2 and should stack. They also last 1 hour.

CThruTheEgo
01-22-2015, 08:10 AM
You could factor in the new lasting abiltiy elixr's from the mysterious remnants. I think they are +2 and should stack. They also last 1 hour.

Heh. I haven't even bothered yet to see what you can get with the remnants. That sounds good though. I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

Caprice
01-22-2015, 02:14 PM
The original Comments text confused me as to whether you intended to take advantage of Evasion or not. You might throw in a little extra clause to make the line more specific about that, e.g.:

This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion, but instead I prefer to use heavy armor because that will help mitigate damage from physical attacks. And with the benefit of a high reflex save as well as high MRR from heavy armor, elemental damage shouldn't be a problem. Although heavy armor requires two feats, the survivability benefits should more than justify the cost.
As usual your builds are a lot of fun to consider. Don't be shocked if a little Mouse pops up on this model sometime soon....

CThruTheEgo
01-22-2015, 02:27 PM
The original Comments text confused me as to whether you intended to take advantage of Evasion or not. You might throw in a little extra clause to make the line more specific about that, e.g.:

I can see how it's a bit ambiguous, so I changed the OP with your suggestions. Thanks Mouse.


As usual your builds are a lot of fun to consider. Don't be shocked if a little Mouse pops up on this model sometime soon....

Hehe. I want to gather a bit of gear before I TR Gardiun into this, so it might be a little while before I do. If you try this out, keep us updated with any feedback.

Caprice
01-22-2015, 05:02 PM
I might beat you to it then. I maxed out my character slots during the recent sale and I have been in a bit of a malaise recently so it might be nice to do something a bit different. I'd probably be starting from "scratch" (level 7 Vet2). I'm drowning in +3 tomes from the Card event & my cross-server trading, so on a 32-pt I am thinking 10 / 10 / 14 / 18 / 12 / 8 for stats would not cost that much survivability and would qualify for either PA or Precision from level 12, in plenty of time. I can always ER into more optimal stats later and skip the heroic leveling hassle.

I am contemplating an 18/1/1 split though since there should be more than enough skillpoints to fit in trapping. Arty 1 will unlock trap skills and full UMD and grant free Echoes, more SP (plus an INT-based SP bonus), and give me a lever puller pet (plus repeater proficiency and Rapid Reload, if I ever have cause to use one). Fighter 1 saves the 2 feats for Heavy Armor Proficiency and grants a third, so I can move up some feats and have the level 27 feat free for Epic Reflexes or something like that. OTOH I would lose a few (mostly forgiveable) spell slots (e.g. we can pot out of poisons and diseases), 1 favored enemy and +2 FE damage, and the +25% offhand doublestrike from the Tempest capstone. That last is leaving a lot of DPS on the table. It's a tough choice.

Missing_Minds
01-22-2015, 05:11 PM
For the record...I wasn't intending to be critical...just trying to understand.

My comment about evasion was in response to the comment... "This build has a sufficient reflex save to get good use out of evasion".
If my comment to you sounded like a slap back, I do apologize. That was not my intention.

I've just seen so many "fun" out there builds nitpicked by others, it sort of dissuades other players from wanting to try things out.

CThruTheEgo
01-23-2015, 09:58 AM
I might beat you to it then. I maxed out my character slots during the recent sale and I have been in a bit of a malaise recently so it might be nice to do something a bit different. I'd probably be starting from "scratch" (level 7 Vet2). I'm drowning in +3 tomes from the Card event & my cross-server trading, so on a 32-pt I am thinking 10 / 10 / 14 / 18 / 12 / 8 for stats would not cost that much survivability and would qualify for either PA or Precision from level 12, in plenty of time. I can always ER into more optimal stats later and skip the heroic leveling hassle.

Those stats look good. The only real loss is 28-56 hp at cap, which is certainly manageable. You've only got 30 points spent there, so you've got another 2 to put wherever you want – str for power attack earlier, dex for precision earlier, con if it will even you out, or wis for 1 more will save.


I am contemplating an 18/1/1 split though since there should be more than enough skillpoints to fit in trapping. Arty 1 will unlock trap skills and full UMD and grant free Echoes, more SP (plus an INT-based SP bonus), and give me a lever puller pet (plus repeater proficiency and Rapid Reload, if I ever have cause to use one). Fighter 1 saves the 2 feats for Heavy Armor Proficiency and grants a third, so I can move up some feats and have the level 27 feat free for Epic Reflexes or something like that. OTOH I would lose a few (mostly forgiveable) spell slots (e.g. we can pot out of poisons and diseases), 1 favored enemy and +2 FE damage, and the +25% offhand doublestrike from the Tempest capstone. That last is leaving a lot of DPS on the table. It's a tough choice.

I considered that same split, as well as several others. There's definitely plenty of skill points for trapping, and going int based has obvious synergy with trapping. In the end, I decided I just really want to try the tempest capstone. It's a nice chunk of dps and the only real compelling reason to stay pure imo. Plus, I'm not sure why but I've just always wanted to play a pure tempest, so I was really trying to find a way to make that work and this build was the result. Arti does provide a lot of utility and versatility though, so it really just comes down to what you prefer.

CThruTheEgo
01-29-2015, 02:12 PM
I'll be TRing into this build at the end of the weekend. Anyone have any last minute tweaks or feedback?

Doutrinador
02-01-2015, 07:10 AM
I'll be TRing into this build at the end of the weekend. Anyone have any last minute tweaks or feedback?

Intel do hit and damage work with bows ?

CThruTheEgo
02-01-2015, 08:07 AM
Intel do hit and damage work with bows ?

Yes it does.

Doutrinador
02-01-2015, 01:05 PM
Yes it does.


i have a similar idea: 18 ranger/ 2 rogue DWS/ intel to damage and hit and reflexes

CThruTheEgo
02-01-2015, 03:04 PM
i have a similar idea: 18 ranger/ 2 rogue DWS/ intel to damage and hit and reflexes

Caprice is going to do an arti splash for trapping, still tempest though. Going int based has obvious synergy with trapping and I considered it as well. In the end though, I just really wanted to try out the tempest capstone.

For any build that won't have access to the various methods of boosting str, int is an excellent option because it also maxes the benefit you get from know the angles and really allows you to min/max stats.

DemonMage
02-02-2015, 12:02 AM
Yeah I just started a PDK 18 Ranger/1 Fighter/1 Rogue variant of this. Seems pretty okay so far but we didn't do too many quests yet.

Hobgoblin
02-02-2015, 12:08 AM
just as a note - this build can switch to light armor and get evasion if you need it for something -


i just cant think of anyplace it would be preferable to heavy prrr.

CThruTheEgo
02-02-2015, 08:06 AM
just as a note - this build can switch to light armor and get evasion if you need it for something -


i just cant think of anyplace it would be preferable to heavy prrr.

Yeah on every heavy armored character I've played since the introduction of MRR, magic/element damage has been a non-issue. So I can't really imagine switching to light armor for evasion. But the option is certainly there if the need ever arises.

Eth
02-02-2015, 08:14 AM
i just cant think of anyplace it would be preferable to heavy prrr.

EE HH Miior. Haven't seen any non evasion melee toon survive her.

CThruTheEgo
02-02-2015, 08:28 AM
EE HH Miior. Haven't seen any non evasion melee toon survive her.

That's a good point. My rogue and bard survive her just fine. All my non-evasion characters though, don't last too long.

psykopeta
02-02-2015, 09:22 AM
EE HH Miior. Haven't seen any non evasion melee toon survive her.

i've seen a EK PM (20 wiz ofc) tanking miior, hp never dropped, when it did... well, it wasn't noticeable

dunno how he did it tho

Eth
02-02-2015, 09:25 AM
i've seen a EK PM (20 wiz ofc) tanking miior, hp never dropped, when it did... well, it wasn't noticeable

dunno how he did it tho

Was he in shadowdancer, which does grant evasion?
You can get really high reflex saves on a PM. Miior doesn't even require a super high reflex save (mid 60s is OK).

Caprice
02-02-2015, 10:20 AM
There are a few traps you have to stand inside to disarm, and for those it might be better to swap to Light too.

QuantumFX
02-02-2015, 10:09 PM
The only thing that I would add is that if you really don't care about ranged, you could pick up Two Weapon Defense for 5 more PRR.


i have a similar idea: 18 ranger/ 2 rogue DWS/ intel to damage and hit and reflexes

If you’re going to splash, take a level of fighter. It’s worth about 4 feats. (You don’t need to take Medium and Heavy armor feats, you get heavy armor feat for free and you get a free fighter feat.)

Caprice
02-03-2015, 09:35 AM
The only thing that I would add is that if you really don't care about ranged, you could pick up Two Weapon Defense for 5 more PRR.

If you’re going to splash, take a level of fighter. It’s worth about 4 feats. (You don’t need to take Medium and Heavy armor feats, you get heavy armor feat for free and you get a free fighter feat.)
3 feats (you counted Heavy twice), but yes it is a great splash choice. I could see taking Rogue 2 for more skills if you want to fit in a lot of utility skills on top of trapping, but I think Fighter 1 + either Rogue 1 or Artificer 1 is better. Rogue 1 is better for skills and 1d6 SA, but I prefer Artificer 1 myself: more SP (~270 at cap), free Echoes, and Enchant Weapon, and an extra lever puller. Rogue is probably the better min-max choice on this build due to DWS Exposing Strike granting lots of SA time and for endgame DPS, but I solo a lot so I find the Arty package very appealing.

Two Weapon Defense is a good suggestion. On the splashed version I was thinking I'd take Quickdraw and Two Weapon Defense with the freed up feats, but have not decided on a third. Can anyone suggest a good choice? I won't have the DEX for Combat Archery, and Dodge/Mobility is fairly useless in Heavy armor. I could fit in Cleave & Great Cleave but they don't work that well with TWF, and Tempest Dance of Death should suit my melee AoE needs.

With a Fighter splash I'd probably take Kensei Haste Boost at least for heroic leveling, probably by dropping the last tier of Versatile Adept from Harper plus the capstone from Tempest. In the long run it's probably worth switching back, but keeping it would let me drop the LD Haste Boost for another Extra Action Boost and maybe another point of CON if it evens out the score (since I wouldn't be as geared as Cthru). Alternatively I might grab Combat Expertise and LD's Improved Combat Expertise for another 20 PRR at the expense of DPS.

FWIW I might delay Fighter until level 10 so I can put the free feat to better use (BAB9) and get by on Medium armor (from Arty) until then.

OTOH splashing means giving up the Tempest capstone and thus ~10% of the total DPS, and nothing Fighter gives quite compensates for that.

BurnerD
02-03-2015, 10:34 AM
Considering the feat benefits of going 18rgr/1ftr/1rog would going dwarf as a race work? I kind of like the idea of a dual dwarven axe user that is int based....

Caprice
02-03-2015, 12:32 PM
Considering the feat benefits of going 18rgr/1ftr/1rog would going dwarf as a race work? I kind of like the idea of a dual dwarven axe user that is int based....
That will definitely work. You drop 1 feat for not being Human, but gain 3 back for a net gain of 2 (e.g. the aforementioned Quickdraw & TWD, but take what you like). The loss of skillpoints doesn't count for much since you will have tons from both Ranger and INT modifier, and this build barely touches the Human Enhancement tree. You lose the easy 1 AP Human Damage Boost that CThru is stacking with LD Haste Boost, but with the Fighter level you can switch those around and spend 4 AP to take Kensei Haste Boost and LD Damage Boost. Swap Pulverizer in LD for Headman's Chop. Adjust the stats to your liking and based on the tomes you have; max INT, enough STR & DEX to hit 13 with your tomes, good CON, and a bit in WIS are the main points. Seems really solid to me.

QuantumFX
02-03-2015, 06:05 PM
With a Fighter splash I'd probably take Kensei Haste Boost at least for heroic leveling,

Why not just take Tempest Haste Boost instead?


Two Weapon Defense is a good suggestion. On the splashed version I was thinking I'd take Quickdraw and Two Weapon Defense with the freed up feats, but have not decided on a third. Can anyone suggest a good choice?

Based off the build in the O.P. You can pick up precision in heroics and grab blinding speed in epics.

CThruTheEgo
02-03-2015, 06:24 PM
There are a few traps you have to stand inside to disarm, and for those it might be better to swap to Light too.

If I was going the trapper route, I would definitely swap to evasion mode for disabling traps, but I would swap to robes to save time switching. The extra PRR/MRR from light armor should not be needed just for disabling and robe swaps are instant. Although for some trap heavy quests/areas, it would be nice to have a decent set of light armor to keep on so you weren't swapping constantly.


The only thing that I would add is that if you really don't care about ranged, you could pick up Two Weapon Defense for 5 more PRR.

Two weapon defense was on my list of considered feats. For my own personal playstyle I tend to prefer melee, but I like having ranged as a backup. So I don't want to dump ranged altogether. Plus, with the amount of PRR this build will have already, another 5 PRR from two weapon defense will only add 0.89% damage reduction. Personally, I'd much rather have a more useful ranged option than less than 1% damage mitigation.

There's also epic damage reduction which adds 10 PRR and would provide another 1.74% damage mitigation. I'd definitely take epic damage reduction before I took two weapon defense.


If you’re going to splash, take a level of fighter. It’s worth about 4 feats. (You don’t need to take Medium and Heavy armor feats, you get heavy armor feat for free and you get a free fighter feat.)

Agreed. If splashing, I think 1 fighter and 1 arti/rogue seems like the best option.


3 feats (you counted Heavy twice), but yes it is a great splash choice. I could see taking Rogue 2 for more skills if you want to fit in a lot of utility skills on top of trapping, but I think Fighter 1 + either Rogue 1 or Artificer 1 is better. Rogue 1 is better for skills and 1d6 SA, but I prefer Artificer 1 myself: more SP (~270 at cap), free Echoes, and Enchant Weapon, and an extra lever puller. Rogue is probably the better min-max choice on this build due to DWS Exposing Strike granting lots of SA time and for endgame DPS, but I solo a lot so I find the Arty package very appealing.

Yeah you pretty much nailed it - arti for utility, rogue for dps. It would be easy to take sneak attack training 1 from assassin also. If not taking the tempest capstone, you can free up 4 AP from tempest (costs 37 AP to get the 5th core and dance of death rank 3). That would still leave 1 point left to spend somewhere.

Another interesting option would be to take some points from harper also. It only costs 14 AP to get int to damage and harper favored enemy. So 12 from harper along with 4 from tempest, gives you 16 total to spend elsewhere. For another 14 AP (26 total) in deepwood stalker you can get favored damage and killer rank 3, leaving 2 points left to spend, probably on versatile adept for more melee power. You lose 2 int, 7 melee power, and agent of good core 3. I can't get full ranks of killer while going pure, but I might play around with getting some of it to see how it affects dps.


Two Weapon Defense is a good suggestion. On the splashed version I was thinking I'd take Quickdraw and Two Weapon Defense with the freed up feats, but have not decided on a third. Can anyone suggest a good choice? I won't have the DEX for Combat Archery, and Dodge/Mobility is fairly useless in Heavy armor. I could fit in Cleave & Great Cleave but they don't work that well with TWF, and Tempest Dance of Death should suit my melee AoE needs.

See my comment above regarding two weapon defense and epic damage reduction. If you take both, you get another 2.55% damage mitigation. In addition to those and quickdraw, other feats worth considering include (in no particular order): power critical (for a little more dps), epic will, epic fortitude, and toughness/epic toughness (I personally wouldn't bother taking toughness without also taking epic toughness).

I don't think epic reflexes is worth it because the MRR should make reflex save a non-issue, plus the reflex save should be nearly no-fail through the vast majority of content already. Fort and will are good but could certainly benefit from a boost. For fort, I'm mostly thinking about flesh to stone. Keep in mind, with impregnable mind twisted, the build already does not auto-fail a will save on a roll of 1, so that might make epic fort more valuable, but there are arguably more will save spells that are a threat than fort save spells so a higher will might be more useful. I'd say it's a tossup between the two.


With a Fighter splash I'd probably take Kensei Haste Boost at least for heroic leveling

I definitely agree. If splashing fighter I'd take haste boost for leveling, but I would switch it out for dreadnaught's eventually.


Considering the feat benefits of going 18rgr/1ftr/1rog would going dwarf as a race work? I kind of like the idea of a dual dwarven axe user that is int based....

It would certainly work, although it would have lower dps due to the fact that pulverizer adds +1 threat range with blunt weapons while headman's chop adds +1 multiplier on 19-20 with axes. The increased threat range on a weapon with an inherent x3 crit multiplier is definitely worth more. But if you wanted to, you could stick with warhammers (dwarves get bonuses to axes, picks, and hammers) and keep pulverizer. You do, however, lose out on human damage boost for the double action boost burst dps.

See my comments above regarding AP spent on an 18/1/1 split. In addition to those options, you could take points from harper to spend on the racial tree. If you do that though, then you're basically trading melee power for more survivability. Overall, a dwarf version would probably be a bit more durable but with a little less dps.

CThruTheEgo
02-03-2015, 06:31 PM
Why not just take Tempest Haste Boost instead?

Tempest haste boost costs 2 AP per rank, while kensai haste boost costs 1 AP per rank, and there is plenty to spend your points on in tempest that you shouldn't need to be dumping points to reach higher tiers.


Based off the build in the O.P. You can pick up precision in heroics and grab blinding speed in epics.

I wouldn't bother with blinding speed nowadays. There are a lot of easy-to-obtain items that offer speed as well as other useful effects. Blinding speed must be taken at level 27 anyway, and the Epic Boots of the Innocent (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Boots_of_the_Innocent) or the Epic Ethereal Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Ethereal_Bracers) are min level 27 and are very easy to farm.

blerkington
02-03-2015, 07:29 PM
Hi,

This is a clever build, and also an excellent example of how screwed up the game is now.

Well done on both counts.

Thanks.

Postumus
02-03-2015, 07:59 PM
Caprice is going to do an arti splash for trapping, still tempest though.


Good idea and you also get a free lever puller.

DemonMage
02-04-2015, 12:05 AM
Is it just me or is Dance of Death super buggy? I'll see I have the buff, be surrounded by mobs, but 80%+ of the time I don't see damage numbers or life going down except for the one I'm targeting as if the buff wasn't up.

CThruTheEgo
02-04-2015, 07:54 AM
Hi,

This is a clever build, and also an excellent example of how screwed up the game is now.

Well done on both counts.

Thanks.

LOL! Thanks.


Is it just me or is Dance of Death super buggy? I'll see I have the buff, be surrounded by mobs, but 80%+ of the time I don't see damage numbers or life going down except for the one I'm targeting as if the buff wasn't up.

I'm still 800k karma away from TRing into this, so I don't know yet. I've been wondering about the mechanics of dance of death actually. Like if you don't have a mob hard targeted, how does it determine which mobs you hit? Is it just a number of mobs in an arc in front of you? Or if you do have one targeted, does it just hit the mobs on either side of it? I'll find out when I get there. If I notice anything buggy with it, I'll definitely make note of it in this thread.

Caprice
02-04-2015, 09:01 AM
Why not just take Tempest Haste Boost instead?
Based off the build in the O.P. You can pick up precision in heroics and grab blinding speed in epics.
What CThru said re:Tempest Haste Boost. 4 AP vs 6 AP. The extra +1 to hit is irrelevant but doesn't hurt.

But yes, my plan was to move the feats around a bit. This is nominally for a new character with access only to +3 tomes from the card event, so my variant would not have the STR or DEX for PA or Precision until after level 11. Probably something like:

1: Insightful Reflexes, (H) PBS, 3: QD, 6: Quicken, 9: Emp Heal, 10 (F) Imp Crit (Pierce or Slash, swap to Bludgeon @ 24), 12 IC:Ranged, 15: Power Attack, 18: Precision, 21: OC, 24: ???, 26: PTWF, 27: ???, 28: ???

That gets me Quickdraw before Many Shot, Improved Critical at minimum BAB, IC:Ranged before IPS, and PA/Precision in time for epics. The meta magics are useless at the levels I get them, but I either take them then or late in epic levels. However I may instead TR an unused character into this instead of starting from scratch, in which case I probably will bump starting STR so I can take PA fairly early and push Quicken back to 18. I will probably skip the Khopeshes and go Piercing to level through heroics since I have a good selection of rapiers, and farm up a couple of Star of Day (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Star_of_Day)s at 20 since those are nicely reusable for Monk and Rogue lives.

Caprice
02-04-2015, 09:07 AM
Based off the build in the O.P. You can pick up precision in heroics and grab blinding speed in epics.

I wouldn't bother with blinding speed nowadays. There are a lot of easy-to-obtain items that offer speed as well as other useful effects. Blinding speed must be taken at level 27 anyway, and the Epic Boots of the Innocent (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Boots_of_the_Innocent) or the Epic Ethereal Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Ethereal_Bracers) are min level 27 and are very easy to farm.
I am generally with CThru on Blinding Speed. It is only a tiny improvement on Speed XV for a melee character: +32% runspeed vs +30%, +15% melee attack speed vs +15%, +22% ranged attack speed vs +15%, +1% Dodge vs +0%, and +1 Reflex vs +0. I would take it on a dedicated ranged character (e.g. Monkcher or Shuricannon) for the higher ranged attack speed bonus, but on a build with situational ranged DPS use like this one I would rely on Haste clickies for the few times it really matters. I run a lot of eChrono so I tend to have enough Time-Sensing Goggles to pass around my characters. However I think it is a reasonable choice and certainly won't knock someone who chooses it.

In the same vein I still like Epic Reflexes as a level 27 choice. Is it necessary? Not in the slightest, but we're choosing between "nice to have" options and I like knowing that I will never fail a trap save and will be that much safer while standing toe-to-toe with the nastiest elemental attackers (e.g. Miior, FTP dragons w/buff).

I could see going for Epic DR instead, and I see what CThru is saying about the Fort and Will saves and how it could be nice to bolster those a bit.

DemonMage
02-06-2015, 07:26 PM
It seems like Dance of Death doesn't work if you're hard targeting. It's a little hard to tell, but it seems like it might be working if you have nothing selected.

QuantumFX
02-06-2015, 08:14 PM
I am generally with CThru on Blinding Speed. It is only a tiny improvement on Speed XV for a melee character: +32% runspeed vs +30%, +15% melee attack speed vs +15%, +22% ranged attack speed vs +15%, +1% Dodge vs +0%, and +1 Reflex vs +0. I would take it on a dedicated ranged character (e.g. Monkcher or Shuricannon) for the higher ranged attack speed bonus, but on a build with situational ranged DPS use like this one I would rely on Haste clickies for the few times it really matters. I run a lot of eChrono so I tend to have enough Time-Sensing Goggles to pass around my characters. However I think it is a reasonable choice and certainly won't knock someone who chooses it.

I just wish I had his loot luck in Temple of Vol! :D

CThruTheEgo
02-06-2015, 09:27 PM
It seems like Dance of Death doesn't work if you're hard targeting. It's a little hard to tell, but it seems like it might be working if you have nothing selected.

Thanks for the info DemonMage. I can imagine the delay between when you swing and when the damage numbers float above would make it difficult to determine just from the visual display only.


I just wish I had his loot luck in Temple of Vol! :D

Farm them in the chain end reward. It's even easier that way. The only items from that chain that you need to do a specific quest for are the mythic helms. For everything else, I'd do the whole chain and get it from the chain reward. And if you need to you can even do the chain on epic casual just for the reward.

CThruTheEgo
02-11-2015, 07:18 AM
Finally TRed into this build this weekend. Survivability and dps are great so far, but I'm also only level four so no real measure of success yet. I have, however, done several quests over my level and have done just fine in them.

Regarding enhancements, I went straight for know the angles and int to damage. They are the biggest dps boosts available this early. Now I'll be moving on to tempest and going for the 10% offhand first.

I haven't mentioned this yet, but I decided to go with khopeshes for leveling because warhammers will not be a good option until epics and dreadnaught. That means 2 feat swaps once I hit epics, but it will make leveling a lot easier.

BurnerD
02-11-2015, 07:34 AM
I'm at level 7 with this build so far and enjoying it. I scrapped the dwarven 18/1/1 and went with the build as you laid it out. I did it as a 36 pt build and put an extra point in str and dex to reduce to tome requirement from +5 to +4.

Survivability is good. I ran some quests 3 levels over and had little issue.

Since the build is enhancement dependent the first few levels weren't much fun, but once you have to hit and damage based on int it gets much better.

Thanks for the build idea. I may try the 18/1/1 version on the next life.

CThruTheEgo
02-11-2015, 08:11 AM
Since the build is enhancement dependent the first few levels weren't much fun, but once you have to hit and damage based on int it gets much better.

Thanks for the update BurnerD. Yeah it's 12 AP before you can get int to damage, which is the end of level 3. I just drank str pots and didn't find it to be a problem. I did most quests in that range on hard though, only because I'm second life and never had an opener join my lfms. Those levels go pretty quick anyway. Know the angles also helped but eat up a lot of sp. I put an sp augment in a large guild slot to help with that.

BurnerD
02-12-2015, 10:02 AM
Thanks for the update BurnerD. Yeah it's 12 AP before you can get int to damage, which is the end of level 3. I just drank str pots and didn't find it to be a problem. I did most quests in that range on hard though, only because I'm second life and never had an opener join my lfms. Those levels go pretty quick anyway. Know the angles also helped but eat up a lot of sp. I put an sp augment in a large guild slot to help with that.

I'm really interested in seeing how much of a difference the tempest capstone will make to the DPS. I know it's a chunk, but since this isn't going to be a top dps build anyway I'm not sure it will be a huge deal. The ability to handle traps may make it a more valuable asset in Epics. So far this build can handle soloing most heroic elites +2-3 levels above with only decent gear.

Caprice
02-12-2015, 10:59 AM
Well the napkin math is something like:
The Tempest capstone makes the off hand strike jump from 110% to 135%. The main hand remains 113% for both. The off hand only gets +11 damage from INT versus +22 on the main hand, but that is relatively minor compared to all of the other damage bonuses (e.g. multiple TF effects & high base dice, Deadly, Seeker + SA dice w/ Exposing Strike, Anvil of Thunder procs). On average the damage difference is thus slightly lower than the difference between the number of expected strikes per attack cycle swing, i.e. 2.48 vs 2.23 which is about +11.2% damage overall.

So I've been calling it roughly a 10% damage difference. I consider that fairly significant.

The main advantage to the 18/1/1 is that it gives you +30% xp in a good number of quests. Stopping to clear traps slows down quest completion so the actual time benefit is less than +30%, but it is close to that. If you want a quick reincarnation or plan to farm EPLs then I think that is a compelling benefit, but otherwise IMO the extra DPS from staying pure is hard to turn down at cap.

CThruTheEgo
02-12-2015, 11:37 AM
The main advantage to the 18/1/1 is that it gives you +30% xp in a good number of quests. Stopping to clear traps slows down quest completion so the actual time benefit is less than +30%, but it is close to that. If you want a quick reincarnation or plan to farm EPLs then I think that is a compelling benefit, but otherwise IMO the extra DPS from staying pure is hard to turn down at cap.

I would agree with this. I'm not much into reincarnation, which is why I usually build for endgame.

Retrodark
02-17-2015, 04:56 PM
I decided that I needed another ranger life, so I made something similar to this build (more based on Caprice's idea of 18/1/1 R/F/A). I never have much fun with pure class builds, so I just gotta have some sort of splash for versatility.

I like to have the option to do traps for 30% bonus when it makes sense, so the Arti lvl 1 > Ranger 20 to me. Note, Artificer gives Medium Armor (I didn't know that prior to now). So if you want to do something other than fighter or paladin for 3rd class splash, you would not need to take 2 armor feats.

I went for 15R/4F/1A to utilize more survive-ability with Stalwart Defender (better saves, better PRR/MRR, more hitpoints). I really only wanted to take 3 lvls of fighter, but lvl 16 ranger and lvl 2 artificer add nothing.

I am currently lvl 20, so I haven't really done any epics yet. Currently, I was switching between blunt weapons for skeleton types, and deathnips for everything else. These things are really nice for leveling with 17-20/x4 crit profile from lvl 14 on. I am not sure what to use yet from lvl 20-22.

I also thought about doing a dwarf version of this too with con as main stat (throw your weight) and int as 2nd stat (know the angles), but the APs were even more tight. It might be a better option with dwarf going 18R/1F/1A though, because feats would not need to be spent for Stalwart, but that was part of the appeal getting the +6 con bonus.

Here is a quick outline of my version.




Stat

Base

Tome

Level

Ship

Gear

Insight

Except.

Profane

Comp.

Store Pot

Yugo

ED
Enh.

Lvl 28

Buffs

Mod


STR
9
6
0
2
8
2
1
2
2
2



34
8-13
12


DEX
8
6
0
2
11
2
1
2
2
2



36
8
13


CON
17
6
0
2
11
2
1
2
2
2
2
2
7
56
8-13
23


INT
18
6
7
2
11
2
1
2
2
2
2

1
56
4
23


WIS
14
6

2
11
2
1
2
2
2



40
4
15


CHA
8
6

2
7
2
1
2
2
2



32
4
11



Saving Throws at 28 (approx.)



Saves

Base

Epic

Gear

Alch.

Ship

GH

Luck

EPL

Mod

GS

Brace

Enh.

Feat

Ins.

Buff

End


Fort
13
4
12
1
3
4
2
3
23
3
2
3
2
4
0
79


Reflex
10
4
12
1
3
4
2
3
23
3
2
6
2
4
1
80



Will
8
4
12
1
2
4
2
3
15
3
2
3
4
4
0
68









Enhancements

Human - 1 (dmg boost)
Harper - 16 (mainly get "Know the Angles and Int to hit/dmg)
Tempest - 39 (Get DoD and Thousand Cuts)
Kensai - 4 (Haste) Removed this after hitting 20.
Deepwood Stalker - 11
Stalwart - 13 (Saves +3/PRR/MRR +15/Con +6)

LVL 28
HP: 1250 (166 (base) + 25 (HD) + 20 (IHD) + 10 (Drac Vit) + 80 (Epic) + 644 (con) + 40 (FL) + 40 (Vitality) +20(ship) +10 (LD) +13 (SD) +5 (Harp) +20(PL) + 99(EPL) +20(yugo) - Note: this is 147 less without my specific Past lives or completionist)
Can reach 1454 (primal scream and Tensor's)
SP: 1339 (974(base) + 250(item) + 25(ship) +20 (enh) +60(PL)
PRR - 201 (+10 (imp parry) +5(insightful) + 25 (SD) + 30(Item) + 45(Armor) + 30(Blitz) + 30(BAB) +27(EPL)) (206 with +4 from tenser's)
MRR: 105 (45(Armor) + 35(Items) + 25(SD))

Lvl progression: ARRRRRRRFRRRRRRRFFFR



Lvl

Type

Feat


1
Standard
Insightful Reflexes


1
Human
Point Blank Shot


2
Ranger (auto)
Bow Strength


3
Standard
Completionist


3
Ranger (auto)
Rapid Shot, Two Weapon Fighting


4
Ranger (auto)
Diehard


5
Ranger (auto)
Precise Shot


6
Standard
Quicken


7
Ranger (auto)
Manyshot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting


9
Standard
Improved Critical - Bludgeoning


9
Fighter
Improved Critical - Piercing


11
Ranger (auto)
Evasion


12
Standard
Empower Healing


13
Ranger (auto)
Improved Precise Shot, Greater Two Weapon Fighting


15
Standard
Improved Critical - Ranged


17
Fighter
Power Attack


18
Standard
Cleave


19
Fighter
Precision


21
Epic
Overwhelming Critical


24
Epic
Bulwark of Defense


26
Epic Destiny
Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


27
Epic
Epic will save


28
Epic Destiny
First Blood





Epic Destiny (Legendary Dreadnaught and I want to try with Divine Crusader too)

Twists (I have Epic Completionist with 29 points so far - used 27)

Sense Weakness (4) - (10 fate)
Balanced Attacks (3) - (9 fate)
Brace (1) - (3 fate)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (1) - (4 fate)

Postumus
02-17-2015, 06:15 PM
I'm sold.


I'm going to try to 18/1/1 next life.

Caprice
02-17-2015, 06:31 PM
I think dropping "Called Shot: Exposing Strike" from DWS hurts a lot, since it is an enhanced damage & crit attack on a 6 second timer that also gives 67% uptime on Sneak Attack damage and acts as supplemental CC. E.g. Disable a champ for the couple seconds it takes you to kill everything in the pack to avoid those enhanced damage fortification bypassing 2-shot deaths. OTOH I can't see a great place to clear up the necessary 6 AP.

DemonMage
02-17-2015, 08:29 PM
Thanks for the info DemonMage. I can imagine the delay between when you swing and when the damage numbers float above would make it difficult to determine just from the visual display only.

So after some more testing, it does seem to be working okay. It's just not quite the AE size I was hoping, it's roughly Cleave sized if I had to guess. But it's pretty easy to see it working with Exposing Strike giving a little debuff pop-up over the heads of the things you hit.

CThruTheEgo
02-17-2015, 11:25 PM
...a nice build...

Nice build. Trades some offense for a lot of defense. I realize you're already leveling this build but I'll offer my thoughts on it anyway.

Since you're in dreadnaught anyway, you could save 4 AP by using dreadnaught's haste boost instead of kensai's. You only need 12 AP in harper to get both know the angles and int to damage, 14 if you also want harper favored enemy. So with the 4 AP from dropping kensai haste boost and another 2 from harper, you could pick up exposing strike (deepwood stalker core 3).

I wonder if you'd get more out of paladin instead of fighter. Paladin would give you lay on hands for an emergency heal, a bit of sp, and even better saves. Could drop imp crit pierce (or keep it and swap it for blunt later if you plan to use hammers in epics, either way I'd say you really only need 1 imp crit feat for melee), cleave (dance of death should provide plenty of AoE dps), and epic will (you'd still have a superb will save). None of those feats seem vital.

Either way – fighter or paladin – it's a solid variation.

Retrodark
02-18-2015, 12:12 AM
Nice build. Trades some offense for a lot of defense. I realize you're already leveling this build but I'll offer my thoughts on it anyway.

Since you're in dreadnaught anyway, you could save 4 AP by using dreadnaught's haste boost instead of kensai's. You only need 12 AP in harper to get both know the angles and int to damage, 14 if you also want harper favored enemy. So with the 4 AP from dropping kensai haste boost and another 2 from harper, you could pick up exposing strike (deepwood stalker core 3).

I wonder if you'd get more out of paladin instead of fighter. Paladin would give you lay on hands for an emergency heal, a bit of sp, and even better saves. Could drop imp crit pierce (or keep it and swap it for blunt later if you plan to use hammers in epics, either way I'd say you really only need 1 imp crit feat for melee), cleave (dance of death should provide plenty of AoE dps), and epic will (you'd still have a superb will save). None of those feats seem vital.

Either way – fighter or paladin – it's a solid variation.


I really didn't know what to do with all of the extra fighter feats lol. I think paladin would be a better choice as you would then have godly saves and healing as well. In reality, I didn't need any of the 3 extra fighter feats. I took the epic will (well didn't take it yet), because I didn't want to be danced or w/e on a 1, and it was the lower of the 3 saving throws. I took cleave because I didn't know what to take at 18. Imp pierce is also a bonus that isn't necessary...good while leveling though. Could add another 72 hps by taking toughness/epic toughness, but figured the hps were already pretty decent.

CThruTheEgo
02-18-2015, 05:39 AM
I really didn't know what to do with all of the extra fighter feats lol. I think paladin would be a better choice as you would then have godly saves and healing as well. In reality, I didn't need any of the 3 extra fighter feats. I took the epic will (well didn't take it yet), because I didn't want to be danced or w/e on a 1, and it was the lower of the 3 saving throws. I took cleave because I didn't know what to take at 18. Imp pierce is also a bonus that isn't necessary...good while leveling though. Could add another 72 hps by taking toughness/epic toughness, but figured the hps were already pretty decent.

Personally, I'd consider power critical and quick draw instead of cleave and imp crit pierce.

CThruTheEgo
02-18-2015, 08:31 AM
So after some more testing, it does seem to be working okay. It's just not quite the AE size I was hoping, it's roughly Cleave sized if I had to guess. But it's pretty easy to see it working with Exposing Strike giving a little debuff pop-up over the heads of the things you hit.

Thanks for the testing DemonMage. Sounds like dance of death will require some maneuvering to get mobs into position for maximum effect. I've not been playing much lately so I'm still only level 7, but I'm anxious to get to 12 to try this out.

Totally unrelated funny story: the character's name that I'm playing this build on is Gardiun of Gnosis. I was in a pug and one of them called me meatshield of knowledge. He was referring to the character's name but I initially thought it was an appropriate description of the build, which of course he knew nothing about. Made me wish I'd named the build Meatshield of Knowledge instead of Totally Bass Ackwards lol.

Retrodark
02-18-2015, 09:23 AM
Personally, I'd consider power critical and quick draw instead of cleave and imp crit pierce.

Why quick draw? For swapping armor and weapons faster? I don't see the appeal as I don't do the armor swap that often and the weapon swap is instant anyway. This would be good on a throwing build, as it doesn't do anything for bows.

I did consider Power Critical. In addition, I thought about taking Toughness and later Epic Toughness, Two Weapon Defense (5 PRR), Luck of heroes, or weapon focus/weapon spec bludgeon.

I picked imp crit pierce mainly for leveling so that I could use both piercing and bludgeoning. I was also thinking that I would use piercing (Picks which I already have TF versions of) when in Divine Crusader, while using bludgeoning in Dreadnaught.

As for cleave (I know there is some hate about it with TWF), it might not be a terrible idea as a backup AOE, as sometimes DoD doesn't go off because your target jumps back on you or it just simply doesn't go off. Let's just say that since I got it at lvl 12, it definitely hasn't been 100% or even 90% for that matter. Maybe I just suck at targeting, but it seems like it just doesn't always work when I expect it to. It would be nice if DoD just worked when you click on it for 10 seconds, but not you actually need to have a target that is in range, because it starts by doing a strike. Same thing for thousand cuts and I think Growing storm too.

CThruTheEgo
02-18-2015, 09:45 AM
Why quick draw? For swapping armor and weapons faster? I don't see the appeal as I don't do the armor swap that often and the weapon swap is instant anyway. This would be good on a throwing build, as it doesn't do anything for bows.

Weapon swaps are not quite instant. There is a delay. Quick draw is a minor decreases in that delay and is also useful when swapping scrolls. It also reduces the activation time of action boosts, so you get a little bit more out of them. It's a tiny benefit for sure, but it is still a dps increase.

Two weapon defense will give you less than 1% additional damage reduction. I wouldn't bother with it personally.

All of the options you have are only minor benefits, so it's really a question of what you want to emphasize. I tend to prefer dps so that's why I'd go with power crit and quick draw.

Retrodark
02-18-2015, 10:54 AM
Weapon swaps are not quite instant. There is a delay. Quick draw is a minor decreases in that delay and is also useful when swapping scrolls. It also reduces the activation time of action boosts, so you get a little bit more out of them. It's a tiny benefit for sure, but it is still a dps increase.

Two weapon defense will give you less than 1% additional damage reduction. I wouldn't bother with it personally.

All of the options you have are only minor benefits, so it's really a question of what you want to emphasize. I tend to prefer dps so that's why I'd go with power crit and quick draw.

I didn't think about using quick draw to help with scrolling and I never knew it helped with reduction of time with action boosts (does this stack with LD's 33% reduction? I wonder how much of a reduction the feat gives and why the tooltip doesn't mention anything about it). I really don't notice enough of a delay while swapping weapons for this to matter. I mean it is one second, but yes this would be good for scrolling. Still don't know if it is better than other options.

I totally agree that all of those feats I was considering are minor benefit. That is why I just picked imp crit piercing and cleave. Cleave is backup AOE and trash DPS (like I mentioned DoD is not 100% for me), while imp. crit pierce was great for heroics and if I do divine crusader (probably won't, unless I do MOD). I might change this to power critical. Whatever the case, I should have done paladin instead of fighter, then I would not be faced with having too many feats...lol. The more I am looking at it, if I needed another ranger life (this is my 3rd), I would just TR (reroll with paladin), now that I am at 20. But, since I am here, I will probably just take this to 28 get EPL, play it for a while at cap then do something else. I might revisit with the Pali version on another toon.

BTW, now that I am 20, I was able to do 11 points into Deepwood Stalker (see updates to my first post). Gonna try things out tonight in epics.

CThruTheEgo
02-18-2015, 11:22 AM
I didn't think about using quick draw to help with scrolling and I never knew it helped with reduction of time with action boosts (does this stack with LD's 33% reduction? I wonder how much of a reduction the feat gives and why the tooltip doesn't mention anything about it).

It does not reduce the cooldown of action boosts like dreadnaught does. Like with the 1 second delay from weapon swaps, there's a delay between when you activate an action boost and when you start doing damage again. Quick draw reduces that delay. It is definitely a minor benefit and is really only worth considering when you've got feats to burn.

I don't have a source for it. It's just one of those things I've known for years that isn't known by everyone, like greensteel buff clickies (e.g. displacement) have a longer duration when cast from a staff than from other weapons or items (I think they use character level for duration but I don't remember exactly).

And grats on 20.

Retrodark
02-19-2015, 01:01 PM
It does not reduce the cooldown of action boosts like dreadnaught does. Like with the 1 second delay from weapon swaps, there's a delay between when you activate an action boost and when you start doing damage again. Quick draw reduces that delay. It is definitely a minor benefit and is really only worth considering when you've got feats to burn.

I don't have a source for it. It's just one of those things I've known for years that isn't known by everyone, like greensteel buff clickies (e.g. displacement) have a longer duration when cast from a staff than from other weapons or items (I think they use character level for duration but I don't remember exactly).

And grats on 20.

I was not aware of GS weapons giving longer lasting clickies. I will need to test that one out. I know the non weapon versions are cast at lvl 16 (1 minute 36 second displacement), so a displace clicky lasting almost 3 minutes (2 minutes 48 seconds) at lvl 28 would be awesome.

I ran a few EE quests last night and I did decently. Still using the Deathnips (lol) as I like the 17-20/x4 (19-20/x6) crit profile. The will saves are currently too low at lvl 20 though and I was getting danced and commanded a lot. I think my will save is only at like 37 (with GH) at the moment, probably because I don't have a wisdom item on and only have a +5 resist item on.

I was sitting at a little over 1K hps and 169 PRR while blitzing at lvl 20-21. I didn't have a lot of time last night, but I did the first MOTU chain so far. Damage output was acceptable and survive-ability is usually great.

CThruTheEgo
02-19-2015, 01:18 PM
I was not aware of GS weapons giving longer lasting clickies. I will need to test that one out. I know the non weapon versions are cast at lvl 16 (1 minute 36 second displacement), so a displace clicky lasting almost 3 minutes (2 minutes 48 seconds) at lvl 28 would be awesome.

It's not all weapons, just staffs specifically. I was surprised to find this out as well. It's the kind of thing you would expect to be more well known.

giftie
02-19-2015, 01:57 PM
It's not all weapons, just staffs specifically. I was surprised to find this out as well. It's the kind of thing you would expect to be more well known.

Isn't that a core feature of all staves in PnP? I was aware from Arcanotech capstone that some part of that idea made it over to DDO, but I never realized they actually implemented it. Now I need to dig out my Stave of the Seer and check if it applies to all staves.

CThruTheEgo
02-19-2015, 02:42 PM
Isn't that a core feature of all staves in PnP? I was aware from Arcanotech capstone that some part of that idea made it over to DDO, but I never realized they actually implemented it. Now I need to dig out my Stave of the Seer and check if it applies to all staves.

I don't know exactly what the mechanic is but I have heard that it does apply to all staffs, not just GS.

DemonMage
02-19-2015, 05:07 PM
It's from Update 11:

All spells cast from two-handed staves now use the wielder's caster level as well as calculate their DC's using the wielder's casting ability score, if they are better than the staff's default values.

So since then they use your character level as caster level and your casting stat for the DC if they beat the staves inherent one.

CThruTheEgo
02-20-2015, 02:38 PM
It's from Update 11:

All spells cast from two-handed staves now use the wielder's caster level as well as calculate their DC's using the wielder's casting ability score, if they are better than the staff's default values.

So since then they use your character level as caster level and your casting stat for the DC if they beat the staves inherent one.

Nice. Thanks for the reference DemonMage.

Emizand
02-20-2015, 04:17 PM
All spells cast from two-handed staves


Isn't a one handed staff just a stick?

DemonMage
02-20-2015, 11:58 PM
Quarterstaves also fall under the stick category, in terms of fighting. It's a pretty broad category. One-handed staves are a popular designation in video games.

In terms of DDO, it's basically saying it doesn't apply to sceptres and other general use weapons. Only quarterstaves and any future two-handed staves they might come up with benefit.

Retrodark
02-23-2015, 12:43 PM
It's from Update 11:

All spells cast from two-handed staves now use the wielder's caster level as well as calculate their DC's using the wielder's casting ability score, if they are better than the staff's default values.

So since then they use your character level as caster level and your casting stat for the DC if they beat the staves inherent one.

Thanks for the info. I guess I need to make a few of those - damn more shroud runs.

Retrodark
02-25-2015, 06:04 PM
Personally, I'd consider power critical and quick draw instead of cleave and imp crit pierce.

So I hit 28 the other night, and considered changing one of my useless feats (cleave or IMP Crit pierce) to Power Critical. Well it requires Weapon focus, so I decided to scrap that idea. Maybe take both WF bludgeon, and then it is better to just take Weapon specialization over Power Crit. Anyway, I can do pretty decent in EEs with this build. My final stats are modified on post #56.

So, since I am not happy with current layout, I am just going to TR again soon to P15/R5. Pretty sure it will be the superior tempest build.

CThruTheEgo
02-26-2015, 12:00 AM
So I hit 28 the other night, and considered changing one of my useless feats (cleave or IMP Crit pierce) to Power Critical. Well it requires Weapon focus, so I decided to scrap that idea. Maybe take both WF bludgeon, and then it is better to just take Weapon specialization over Power Crit. Anyway, I can do pretty decent in EEs with this build. My final stats are modified on post #56.

Oops. You're right about that. I always forget about that requirement, probably because I took power crit on my fighter and had weapon focus anyway.


So, since I am not happy with current layout, I am just going to TR again soon to P15/R5. Pretty sure it will be the superior tempest build.

Superior, yes, but I'm not sure I'd call it a tempest, more like FotM. Anything with 15 paladin levels is going to be superior to anything without 15 paladin levels. It's stupidly OP right now.

Retrodark
02-26-2015, 11:16 AM
Superior, yes, but I'm not sure I'd call it a tempest, more like FotM. Anything with 15 paladin levels is going to be superior to anything without 15 paladin levels. It's stupidly OP right now.

Agreed, that 14/15 paladin with anything is OP. It is still a Tempest (Tier 5 for DoD) :). I need one more paladin life anyway, and since I have some cool single handed weapons that I just used for this build, I can continue using them.

CThruTheEgo
03-10-2015, 06:59 AM
I'm currently up to level 18 and had a nice show of the build's capability yesterday. I had just finished Shroud flagging and joined a nearly full Shroud group. Level range was set to 17-22 with only one level 22, a couple 20s and 21s, and the rest were 17-19. It wasn't a BB run but I was looking forward to a run that wasn't a roflstompfest with a bunch of epic characters. So I join and there's 1 spot left which is taken by our second healer, a FvS. Enter quest, look at the xp and realize I'm getting some good xp. Then the FvS enters and xp drops to 0. Turns out he's level 26 and ignored the level restriction on the lfm and the leader didn't notice. After a bit grumbling by the group, an apology by the leader but not the FvS, and 1 person dropping, we press on. It is apparent in part 1 that group dps is low and I wonder how part 4 is going to go. Well, I was hoping for a run that wouldn't be a snoozefest, right?

Parts 1-3 go smoothly. Part 4, not so much. Before the end of round 1 with Harry, I'm standing there helpless with 0 con. I ask for a heal/restore, as do a couple others. Blades start closing in, I get out, half the group goes ding. The FvS says we don't have enough dps, which is true because Harry is only at 75% at the end of round 1. But it's also true that we don't have good healing. Apparently the FvS thought dropping sacred ground would be enough for a lower level group. It's a fine tactic with a bunch of epic characters who can one round Harry, but this wasn't that kind of group. I've got about 550 HP and 32 con. I know I wasn't the only one who was helpless and judging by the HP numbers, many probably had a lower con than me. So I'm sure the lack of mass heals was a contributing factor to our lack of dps. Our cleric in the group said he had solo healed Shroud before, but I'm surprised neither of them knew to be throwing mass heal to get rid of the poison/disease con damage.

Round 2, same thing. I'm helpless by the end of it, as are a few others, and another couple die. I thought they would have gotten the message after several of us had asked for a heal/restore, so I politely inform the healers that the occasional mass heal on Harry will remove the con damage caused by his poison/disease. Fortunately they adapted in round 3 and the con damage was no longer a problem. But we are now down to 4 or 5 of us. It ends up with only 3 of us alive, myself, the level 26 FvS, and a level 20 dwarf pure fighter. I'd take out most of the gnolls with manyshot and then melee on Harry. The FvS didn't seem to be doing anything but playing healbot at this point. We went several rounds like this, whittling him down slowly but surely. We got him down to a tiny sliver of health as the blades were closing in and I made the bad decision to try and finish him off and died in the blades. The next round, the fighter and FvS both die. I'm guessing the fighter couldn't take out the gnolls fast enough, and Harry healed more than the fighter was capable of damaging him.

There are a number of things that could have been done differently by the whole group to result in a successful part 4 and probably a completion, but that's not my point here. With the way it did go, it was solely my own impatience and poor judgement that finished us. Had I not been so eager and had gotten out of the blades, we'd have finished Harry in the next round. But the build itself performed quite well under the circumstances and outlasted several epic level characters. So although not a total success story, it was a success for the build imo.

CThruTheEgo
03-10-2015, 10:31 PM
Maybe a stronger ranged option to go with your TWF when needed? Can you squeeze in a repeater feat somewhere and rapid reload?

I've not built a fully ranged based character before, so my experience is somewhat limited. But in my experience with ranged/melee hybrids, the ranged option is pretty weak outside of manyshot. Manyshot works fine when a ranged option is needed though. It's been great for heroics and will be even better with master's blitz, so I'm not sure more is needed. I don't think I'd bother with a repeater on a ranger. Whatever benefit there might be would not be worth the investment imo.

Ikeas
03-16-2015, 02:22 PM
He consolidates Damage, Hit, Ranged Damage, Ranged Hit, and Relfex save into one stat.

Maybe is an stupid question, but... why not to go DEX instead? Elf tempest can have DEX to hit and damage on melee and ranged, good AC, good REF save for evasion if needed...

Just asking, I really think OP's build is great.

CThruTheEgo
03-16-2015, 03:08 PM
Maybe is an stupid question, but... why not to go DEX instead? Elf tempest can have DEX to hit and damage on melee and ranged, good AC, good REF save for evasion if needed...

Just asking, I really think OP's build is great.

Thanks, glad you like it. Dex based would be lower melee dps due to lower int for know the angles, less melee power from harper (if any), and pulverizer from dreadnaught gives warhammers the same crit profile as khopesh but without the feat requirement. Warhammers do not qualify for dex to damage from the elf line.

Jetrule
03-28-2015, 11:33 AM
I like the build and would play it as is with enjoyment no doubt. But I want to know your thoughts on going 18 ranger 1 artificer 1 fighter. Are the capstone and other losses of the 2 ranger levels balanced out by the free heavy armor and repeater proficiency the addition of trap and umd skills the free boost to spell points and a further additional feat to help out the ranged option?

CThruTheEgo
03-28-2015, 03:00 PM
I like the build and would play it as is with enjoyment no doubt. But I want to know your thoughts on going 18 ranger 1 artificer 1 fighter. Are the capstone and other losses of the 2 ranger levels balanced out by the free heavy armor and repeater proficiency the addition of trap and umd skills the free boost to spell points and a further additional feat to help out the ranged option?

Asalways, it depends on your priorities. I'm not interested in xp from traps nor do I use the ranged option much. I prefer to focus on melee with my playstyle, so the splash doesn't suit my priorities and the capstone is worth it for me. But if you're going for a TR, or using this build for ETRs, then splashing for traps makes sense. Or if you prefer to use ranged more than melee, or at least more than I do, then I can see the value of splashing so you can invest more in ranged. Either option is viable and a good choice. Which one is best for you really depends on your priorities.

AylinIsAwesome
03-28-2015, 09:21 PM
Mainhand Strike Chance:
100 base
5 perfect two weapon fighting
5 tempest core 5
8 item
113% MAINHAND

100 + 5 + 5 + 8 = 118...

CThruTheEgo
03-28-2015, 09:29 PM
100 + 5 + 5 + 8 = 118...

Derp?


Math is hard...

bobafettucine
04-16-2015, 06:09 AM
Love the idea behind this build (but then again, I am a skills junkie).

I'm not convinced that ranger levels above 11 give you very much over and above a few extra spell slots (FoM and Cure Serious are nice, but there are alternatives) if you arent going for the tempest capstone.

I re-did the build for my play-style and objectives.

Its a 11 Ranger/8 Fighter/1 Artificer split (oh, and its dwarf because of Dwarven Axes and general dwarven awesomeness)
Edit: Now a 13 Ranger/6 Fighter/1 Artificer split

13 Ranger for all of the juicy TWF/ranged feats, IPS, lvl 3 spells (and evasion, if you situationally want to do something in your PJs), and lvl 12 Tempest enhancements
6 Fighter for heavy armour, extra HP, extra feats (cleaves, toughness, quicken), access to Stalwart.
1 Artificer for near max trap feats, repeater feat (will probably use longbows, but may be handy) lever puller and a surprising amount of SP (more INT synergy).

Some extra will saves could be useful.

Just starting on this (level 3 right now), so no real-world info on it yet.

Feedback appreciated. I have a nagging feeling I'm missing something about Ranger 12, but I cant figure out what it is!
Edit: figured it out: deflect arrows core tempest enhancement, which is a nice ability that I may try to incorporate (by dropping the last fighter level and resilience)
Edit: +10% offhand proc chance - prompted change to 13/6/1


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Mokka INT Rng-Fight-Arti
Level 28 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(6 Fighter \ 13 Ranger \ 1 Artificer \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 547
Spell Points: 441
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 13 17
Dexterity 8 12
Constitution 17 23
Intelligence 18 29
Wisdom 12 16
Charisma 9 13

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -1 13
Bluff -1 9
Concentration 3 16
Diplomacy -1 9
Disable Device 8 40
Haggle -1 9
Heal 3 34
Hide -1 9
Intimidate -1 9
Jump 3 21
Listen 1 11
Move Silently 1 26
Open Lock 3 32
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 17
Search 8 44
Spellcraft 4 17
Spot 5 34
Swim 1 13
Tumble n/a 10
Use Magic Device 3 32

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Goblinoid
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Ranger)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Reflexes


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Sprint Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Sprint Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Sprint Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)

unbongwah
04-16-2015, 09:42 AM
Feedback appreciated. I have a nagging feeling I'm missing something about Ranger 12, but I cant figure out what it is!
Edit: figured it out: deflect arrows core tempest enhancement, which is a nice ability that I may try to incorporate (by dropping the last fighter level and resilience)
Lvl 12 Tempest core enh also adds +10% offhand proc chance for a full 100% offhand. Since Keen Edge doesn't stack w/Pulverizer, there's no point in having both; and you can't have both Keen Edge and Dance of Death anyway. +2 Melee Power from GWF isn't sufficient to justify ftr 8 on its own, IMHO.

bobafettucine
04-16-2015, 10:38 AM
Lvl 12 Tempest core enh also adds +10% offhand proc chance for a full 100% offhand. Since Keen Edge doesn't stack w/Pulverizer, there's no point in having both; and you can't have both Keen Edge and Dance of Death anyway. +2 Melee Power from GWF isn't sufficient to justify ftr 8 on its own, IMHO.

Ah yes, forgot about the extra +10% offhand.

My build is Dwarven Axe based, so I would be taking Headman's Chop and not Pulverizer (if in Leg Dread).

I like the extra feats from fighter. I get two cleaves (makes up a little for the shortcomings of TWF) and can fit in quicken & toughness (and epic toughness) as well - I would like to have a few spare HP as a frontline heavy.

This is a first draft, working through the enhancements now and Kensai isnt as useful as I thought it was going to be. Do the crit+ enhancements from Kensai and Tempest stack?

Thanks for the feedback Unbongwah.
Also, my completionist-in-progress toon just finished his paladin life as a very slight modification to your Sacred Vanguard. Nice job...he was a beast!

CThruTheEgo
04-16-2015, 10:52 AM
Love the idea behind this build (but then again, I am a skills junkie).

I'm not convinced that ranger levels above 11 give you very much over and above a few extra spell slots (FoM and Cure Serious are nice, but there are alternatives) if you arent going for the tempest capstone.

I re-did the build for my play-style and objectives.

Its a 11 Ranger/8 Fighter/1 Artificer split (oh, and its dwarf because of Dwarven Axes and general dwarven awesomeness)

11 Ranger for all of the juicy TWF/ranged feats, IPS, lvl 3 spells (and evasion, if you situationally want to do something in your PJs)
8 Fighter for heavy armour, extra HP, extra feats (cleaves, toughness, resilience), access to kensai.
1 Artificer for near max trap feats, repeater feat (will probably use longbows, but may be handy) lever puller and a surprising amount of SP (more INT synergy).

Some extra will saves could be useful.

Just starting on this (level 3 right now), so no real-world info on it yet.

Feedback appreciated. I have a nagging feeling I'm missing something about Ranger 12, but I cant figure out what it is!
Edit: figured it out: deflect arrows core tempest enhancement, which is a nice ability that I may try to incorporate (by dropping the last fighter level and resilience)

With the addition of melee power to the fighter weapon focus/specialization feats, splashing fighter is a solid choice. But I notice you do not have those feats listed, so I'm not sure what your motivation is with taking fighter. You can drop oversized twf. Thanks to the changes of the to hit formula, this is completely unnecessary. Resilience is also unnecessary. I would replace those with weapon focus and weapon specialization.

As unbongwah pointed out, 12 ranger is for an additional 10% offhand strike chance, which brings it up to 100% total. But you are correct that spell slots and capstone are the main reason to go past 12 ranger. So if you want to splash fighter for more melee power, then 4 and 8 fighter would be the stopping points. You've got a lot of options here. 12 ranger/8 fighter would be the higher dps option, but excludes trapping. 12 ranger/6 fighter/2 arti for another feat and trapping. 15 ranger/4 fighter/1 artificer for more spell slots and trapping. This option also gives you enough fighter levels to go to tier 4 in stalwart defender, so it's a nice balance between offense and defense. I wouldn't go 7 fighter since the 7th fighter level does nothing for you.

You don't have enhancements listed, so can't really comment on those. How you work out your enhancements will really show what you are trying to do with the splash. Unbongwah pointed out some things to be aware of, but you mentioned dwarven axes and pulverizer only works with blunt weapons, so that's not necessarily a concern. You need weapon focus/specialization feats to go up the kensai tree (well, at least for the weapon group specialization enhancements). You could go to stalwart defender for better defenses - more hp, con, PRR, and saves. Defender stance only requires medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield.

If you want to provide enhancements, we can give more targeted feedback.

unbongwah
04-16-2015, 10:59 AM
My build is Dwarven Axe based, so I would be taking Headman's Chop and not Pulverizer (if in Leg Dread).
Ah, my bad: didn't look closely enough at your build, assumed you were going warhammers as well.

When U19 first rolled out, rgr 12 / ftr 8 was a solid TWF combo (for someone w/out monk, anyway): 100% offhand + Keen Edge. Prior to TF weapons, Adaxus axes (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Axe_of_Adaxus) were your best option:
20/x4 base crit -> 19-20/x4 Keen Edge -> 17-20/x4 IC:Slash -> 17-18/x4 19-20/x7 (Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit + Headman's Chop)

But that build feels really obsolete now: Kensei has been overshadowed by all the improvements to other classes in recent updates; and Dance of Death is just way better than it used to be, so I wouldn't want to skip it if possible.

CThruTheEgo
04-16-2015, 11:00 AM
I like the extra feats from fighter. I get two cleaves (makes up a little for the shortcomings of TWF) and can fit in quicken as well.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with cleaves you plan on taking dance of death from tempest. I'm not a fan of cleaves with twf at all tbh, because only the mainhand attack applies to the cleave attack. So you lose out on the entire benefit of twf when you cleave. And if you take dance of death, then you have a reliable AoE melee attack without the loss of dps that you get from cleaves with twf. Dance of death lasts for 10 seconds and has a cooldown of 15 seconds, so you can hit multiple enemies 2/3 of the time if you keep it up. Dance of death is tier 5 though, so that excludes other tier 5s if you were planning on taking them from either kensai or stalwart defender.


Do the crit+ enhancements from Kensai and Tempest stack?

If you mean the critical accuracy and critical damage enhancements, they shouldn't stack, but I haven't tested it. Enhancements with the same name are not supposed to stack and typically do not.

bobafettucine
04-16-2015, 11:20 AM
Personally, I wouldn't bother with cleaves you plan on taking dance of death from tempest. I'm not a fan of cleaves with twf at all tbh, because only the mainhand attack applies to the cleave attack. So you lose out on the entire benefit of twf when you cleave. And if you take dance of death, then you have a reliable AoE melee attack without the loss of dps that you get from cleaves with twf. Dance of death lasts for 10 seconds and has a cooldown of 15 seconds, so you can hit multiple enemies 2/3 of the time if you keep it up. Dance of death is tier 5 though, so that excludes other tier 5s if you were planning on taking them from either kensai or stalwart defender.


and Dance of Death is just way better than it used to be, so I wouldn't want to skip it if possible.


TBH I hadn't really considered Dance Of Death as a major desirable.
Now that I look at it more closely, it does seem pretty good, even though it is fewer targets and presumably a narrower arc than great cleave.

BoRuSS
08-06-2015, 10:42 AM
How can I make it avaiable as a ranger??

Just got to level 20 and its impossible for me to claim that destiny???

Thx for answering my noob question :)

unbongwah
08-06-2015, 11:41 AM
Your initial Epic Destiny Sphere choices depend on which classes you have at least 6 levels in. As a pure rgr, your only option is the Primal ED; so one possibility is choose Shiradi (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shiradi_Champion), level it to 4 to unlock LD, then swap to LD. However, note that the final build includes Twists from Primal Avatar, so maybe you work on your other Primal EDs before switching to LD, in order to open the Twists you will want later.

ETA: also you need to max out at least one Primal ED in order to take PTWF feat; so try to do that before you hit lvl 26.

BoRuSS
08-06-2015, 03:19 PM
Your initial Epic Destiny Sphere choices depend on which classes you have at least 6 levels in. As a pure rgr, your only option is the Primal ED; so one possibility is choose Shiradi (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shiradi_Champion), level it to 4 to unlock LD, then swap to LD. However, note that the final build includes Twists from Primal Avatar, so maybe you work on your other Primal EDs before switching to LD, in order to open the Twists you will want later.

ETA: also you need to max out at least one Primal ED in order to take PTWF feat; so try to do that before you hit lvl 26.

My plan is to TR at least 2 time (maybe go for completionist) but someone told me to take 1 epic destiny LVL for later every time I TR... So im a lil lost in what is better to do and in which epic destiny I should invest now! TY for the answers and those to come :)

CThruTheEgo
08-08-2015, 02:36 PM
How can I make it avaiable as a ranger??

Just got to level 20 and its impossible for me to claim that destiny???

Thx for answering my noob question :)

There's not much I can add to unbongwah's answer. Perfect two weapon fighting requires maxing out 1 primal destiny. Elusive target requires maxing out 2 martial destinies. Plus, you'll want to level up some destinies so you can gain enough fate points for the twists. Balanced attacks is tier 3 in primal avatar, while favored enemy is tier 2. You also need to get to tier 3 to move to another primal destiny. To go from the primal sphere to the martial sphere requires getting to level 4 in shiradi. So the fastest route might be to start in primal avatar, get to level 3 to have those two twists available, then move over to shiradi and max it out for perfect two weapon fighting and access to legendary dreadnaught. Then max dreadnaught and either shadowdancer or grandmaster of flowers for access to elusive target. By the time you've gained all those destiny levels (18 total), you'll have 6 fate points, which is just enough to unlock a tier 3 twist in the first twist slot so you can twist balanced attacks.

That said, this build is heavily dependent on its ED, that is, blitzing in dreadnaught. I made sure to have everything I needed maxed out and unlocked before I TRed into this build. There is a noticeable difference in performance when you're not blitzing. If you don't plan to play this build long and are just using it for a past life, then I'd suggest starting in shiradi, getting it to level 4, and heading straight to dreadnaught asap. This way you can spend more time in dreadnaught but will miss out on the twists as well as the epic destiny feats (i.e. perfect two weapon fighting and elusive target). That's not a big deal if you don't plan to play the build long and you'll perform much better in dreadnaught. But if you're going to stick with the build for a bit, then I'd probably go with the first plan I mentioned.

Hope that helps.

unbongwah
09-16-2015, 02:49 PM
With the proposed changes to ranger, do you think it will be worthwhile to stick with light armor on a pure rgr? What do you think of ToEE armor + ToEE warhammer for the set bonus (+20 Melee / Ranged Power), with a TF warhammer? Looks like we'll be able to pick up +20 Melee Power from Tempest and another +10 from DWS.

CThruTheEgo
09-16-2015, 04:59 PM
With the proposed changes to ranger, do you think it will be worthwhile to stick with light armor on a pure rgr? What do you think of ToEE armor + ToEE warhammer for the set bonus (+20 Melee / Ranged Power), with a TF warhammer? Looks like we'll be able to pick up +20 Melee Power from Tempest and another +10 from DWS.

It's a little too early to say for sure, but I'm anticipating abandoning this build entirely after the enhancement pass. My guess is there will be solid viable alternatives to both heavy armor and int based, thus nullifying the whole concept of this build. There may be enough worth spending AP on among the ranger trees that investing heavily into harper won't be worth it. There may also be incentives to go dex or str based so that going int based won't be worth it. And there may be incentives to stick with light armor. There may even end up being incentives to use specific weapons, so warhammers may not be ideal. Of course nothing is written in stone yet so I'll wait to see what actually goes live.

As far as gear, I've needed to update that for a while now, but now there's no point doing so until after the enhacement pass.

While I've never used it, in general I think the ToEE set is probably a solid option for most twf builds. I don't think it would outclass thunder-forged, so I wouldn't want to use it on a swf or thf, but it is probably worth giving up one weapon on a twf. But again, that's just pure speculation on my part.

Arlathen
09-19-2015, 02:57 AM
It's a little too early to say for sure, but I'm anticipating abandoning this build entirely after the enhancement pass. My guess is there will be solid viable alternatives to both heavy armor and int based, thus nullifying the whole concept of this build.

I hope so! And I don't mean that in kind of offensive form either - I applaud you for the build in circumventing a lot of the current weaknesses of Rangers, but it runs completely contrary to what I like about Rangers and what there strengths should be :)

To be honest, I chalk this one up to being a 'Protest Build' that has helped move Rangers along to some of the promise we're seeing in enhancement revamp. So have a cookie ;)

Arlathen
09-19-2015, 03:05 AM
With the proposed changes to ranger, do you think it will be worthwhile to stick with light armor on a pure rgr? What do you think of ToEE armor + ToEE warhammer for the set bonus (+20 Melee / Ranged Power), with a TF warhammer? Looks like we'll be able to pick up +20 Melee Power from Tempest and another +10 from DWS.

Hijacking here, but my answer to all of this is a solid Yes. If they scale out the Electrical damage in Tempest better, than a ToEE Set with +20 Melee Power and Electric Vulnerability on the offhand weapon seems like a given to me.

But then, I've been a huge fan of Lightning Strike for years anyway, fit Thunderstruck into my gear layout on my Pure Ranger as well as a pair of Ruby Eye of the Tempest into the weapons I use. Unsurprisingly my own builds name is 'Stormbringer'.

I've never considered using Warhammers a s a primary choice of weaponry before, I was so married to Khopeshes. I guess running in LD I can have the same Crit Profile and free up a feat slot, and cosmetic over the top to keep my Electrical Chaos Blade look :D

CThruTheEgo
09-19-2015, 08:59 AM
I hope so! And I don't mean that in kind of offensive form either - I applaud you for the build in circumventing a lot of the current weaknesses of Rangers, but it runs completely contrary to what I like about Rangers and what there strengths should be :)

To be honest, I chalk this one up to being a 'Protest Build' that has helped move Rangers along to some of the promise we're seeing in enhancement revamp. So have a cookie ;)

LOL! I agree. I'm glad to see a "proper" ranger will be more competitive now. This build does fly in the face of everything that a ranger should be, hence the build name. I will say I didn't create it in protest as much as I simply wanted to play a pure ranger and, at the time, this just seemed the most effective way to build one. Nonetheless, I think the point was still made that the optimal ranger was not the traditional ranger.

EDIT: And good call on the electric vulnerability on the ToEE weapon. That seems like a solid idea. I will say, currently, the offhand has a higher strike chance than the mainhand due to the capstone. If that remains the case after the enhancement pass, then I'd put the ToEE weapon in the mainhand and Thunder-Forged in the offhand.

unbongwah
09-19-2015, 10:08 AM
There may also be incentives to go dex or str based so that going int based won't be worth it.
The main downside to DEX builds is there still aren't enough ways of boosting DEX vs STR (Div Might, Power Surge, Rage, etc.). DEX Assassins got a nice boost from Assassinate DC being based on DEX or INT; that plus Shadow Dodge gives them an advantage over INT Assassins. But I'm not seeing enough in the proposed rgr changes to really take advantage of DEX builds; although DEX+INT-based builds w/Harper could be fun.

I've never considered using Warhammers a s a primary choice of weaponry before, I was so married to Khopeshes. I guess running in LD I can have the same Crit Profile and free up a feat slot, and cosmetic over the top to keep my Electrical Chaos Blade look :D
The other advantage to warhammers in LD is you can use Anvil of Thunder, which proc a free no-save stun on crits vs trash mobs. In other EDs, khopeshes will be better.

Arlathen
09-19-2015, 12:40 PM
The other advantage to warhammers in LD is you can use Anvil of Thunder, which proc a free no-save stun on crits vs trash mobs. In other EDs, khopeshes will be better.

You sir, may have a TWO cookies for bringing that to my attention.

CThruTheEgo
09-19-2015, 02:45 PM
The main downside to DEX builds is there still aren't enough ways of boosting DEX vs STR (Div Might, Power Surge, Rage, etc.). DEX Assassins got a nice boost from Assassinate DC being based on DEX or INT; that plus Shadow Dodge gives them an advantage over INT Assassins. But I'm not seeing enough in the proposed rgr changes to really take advantage of DEX builds; although DEX+INT-based builds w/Harper could be fun.

For me at least, I'm interested in staying pure (assuming the capstone is still attractive after the enhancement pass, of course, which it looks like it will be), so things like divine might and power surge wouldn't make a difference. That minimizes the difference between str and dex, but str still pulls ahead due to rage, ram's might, primal scream (if available), and maybe 1 or 2 from ED assuming dreadnaught or fury. I haven't kept up with the revamp discussion so I'm honestly not entirely sure what incentives there are to going dex based. I've got too much real life stuff going on to keep up with the discussion so I'll just wait until the changes are final before making any decisions.

gwonbush
09-19-2015, 03:02 PM
Current advantages to Dex based: 4 from capstone, 12 insightful during Thousand Cuts (not working in previous Lam Build), Elaborate Parry scales with Dodge Modifier, higher reflex saves and a bit more AC.

Str Based: Primal Scream, LD stat increases (if you have spare points), Ram's Might, able to use non-scimitars or light weapons.

Nobnarb
09-23-2015, 10:23 AM
Just curious,

How would a TF with Draconic Reinvigoration compare to the ToEE set for weapon2? I saw someone mention that idea (might have been this thread, can't find it atm). Might be useful as Human with 2x Action Boost, especially with Tempest getting a reduced cost for Haste Boost.

gwonbush
09-23-2015, 06:28 PM
It'd be better to have that as a swap weapon due to the cooldown on recharges.

Also, with the most recent changes, it appears that Khopesh is once again king. +1 Threat range with all weapons in DS core 12 and +1 Crit Multiplier in Tempest core 12.

DevilYouKnow
09-24-2015, 05:16 AM
It'd be better to have that as a swap weapon due to the cooldown on recharges.

Also, with the most recent changes, it appears that Khopesh is once again king. +4 Threat range with all weapons in DS core 12 + ravager tier 5 critical rage and +1 Crit Multiplier in Tempest core 12.

Fixed that for you.

slarden
09-24-2015, 07:20 AM
Just curious,

How would a TF with Draconic Reinvigoration compare to the ToEE set for weapon2? I saw someone mention that idea (might have been this thread, can't find it atm). Might be useful as Human with 2x Action Boost, especially with Tempest getting a reduced cost for Haste Boost.

If you don't have shadow phlogs it's probably the best tier 3 available with fire phlogs for sure. I still think mortal fear with balanced attacks and sense weakness is better overall especially in content with really high hp orange names and other enemies, but with the recent changes enemies may go down so fast sense weakness isn't even needed.

Another nice build Cthru. I am building a slightly different version with evasion. I am using harper for a weak KTA, but will be strength based. With the recent changes TWF will be so strong I am not sure if switching to a 20 second manyshot is needed except situationally when I can't reach enemies.

I never played a ranger without point blank shot or improved critical range, but I am strongly considering dropping those on my build for 2 additional weapon focus feats giving me +6 melee power instead of +2 melee power. TWF on a tempest /deepwood stalker will be so good the 20 second burst dps may not be so bursty any more. I am also liking two weapon defense and epic damage reduction on a tempest/deepwood stalker pure 20 ranger build as an alternative to harmor. You might lose shadow guardian but then again 20 MP bonus from the TOEE set is really nice (and +2 from weapon unless you are lucky enough to have the +4 ingredient drop). What do you think cthru?

slarden
09-24-2015, 07:25 AM
The other advantage to warhammers in LD is you can use Anvil of Thunder, which proc a free no-save stun on crits vs trash mobs. In other EDs, khopeshes will be better.


Yes, I am thinking khopeshes in Divine Crusader. Better self-healing from consecration, 10% damage and another threat range giving me 6 more crit dice (2 #x 3 extra crit dice with x4 multiplier) vs. just the 2 dice from devestating critical.

The hammer proc is nice though, but not rangers are such high dps the proc is less useful than it was when the build was first created since it takes fewer hits to take down enemies.

ValariusK
09-24-2015, 12:11 PM
Devil, I don't seriously see very many people going Ranger-12/Barb-5 and taking Ravager tier 5s. For one thing, Blood strength scales with your barbarian level, not your character level, making it not a very good healing ability in splash or even heavy splash (barb-8 ranger-12?). Plus you'll lose dance of death or other ranger tier 5s.

CThruTheEgo
09-24-2015, 05:59 PM
Yes, I will be abandoning this build concept. Here is my new take on a pure tempest: The Divine Cuisinart (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/465697-The-Divine-Cuisinart-A-dual-khopesh-wielding-pure-tempest-ranger-in-divine-crusader). As always, feedback welcome and appreciated. I could particularly use some help regarding the empty feats and the gear set.

CThruTheEgo
09-24-2015, 06:11 PM
Just curious,

How would a TF with Draconic Reinvigoration compare to the ToEE set for weapon2? I saw someone mention that idea (might have been this thread, can't find it atm). Might be useful as Human with 2x Action Boost, especially with Tempest getting a reduced cost for Haste Boost.

As gwonbush mentioned, draconic reinvigoration is best as a swap in only because of the cooldown on the effect.


Another nice build Cthru. I am building a slightly different version with evasion. I am using harper for a weak KTA, but will be strength based. With the recent changes TWF will be so strong I am not sure if switching to a 20 second manyshot is needed except situationally when I can't reach enemies.

I never played a ranger without point blank shot or improved critical range, but I am strongly considering dropping those on my build for 2 additional weapon focus feats giving me +6 melee power instead of +2 melee power. TWF on a tempest /deepwood stalker will be so good the 20 second burst dps may not be so bursty any more. I am also liking two weapon defense and epic damage reduction on a tempest/deepwood stalker pure 20 ranger build as an alternative to harmor. You might lose shadow guardian but then again 20 MP bonus from the TOEE set is really nice (and +2 from weapon unless you are lucky enough to have the +4 ingredient drop). What do you think cthru?


Yes, I am thinking khopeshes in Divine Crusader. Better self-healing from consecration, 10% damage and another threat range giving me 6 more crit dice (2 #x 3 extra crit dice with x4 multiplier) vs. just the 2 dice from devestating critical.

The hammer proc is nice though, but not rangers are such high dps the proc is less useful than it was when the build was first created since it takes fewer hits to take down enemies.

This is where my thinking ended up also. Khopesh is the clear winner and divine crusader is a very strong choice. I'm also thinking there won't be as much value in manyshot, but I still want to have a solid ranged option in case it's ever needed. For that reason, I'm taking imp crit ranged, but I likely will not bother with point blank shot.

I do plan to take epic damage reduction as well. I've got over 100 PRR on my build already, so I'm not sure about two weapon defense. The build's total miss chance is lower than I would prefer, so I'm leaning toward more dodge rather than damage mitigation. But there are plenty of feats, so you could easily take both if you wanted to.

I think the combination of dps, damage mitigation, and self healing should be enough that any kind of CC won't really be needed, either from anvil of thunder or balancing attacks. I opted to go all out dps for my twists, taking symmetric strikes (5% physical damage), critical damage (+6 crit damage), and extra action boosts (human, so simultaneous haste and damage boosts).