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View Full Version : L13 Rogue considering reincarnating to ranger with rogue splash



jnTracks
01-19-2015, 07:21 PM
I have a Rogue that just hit 13, mechanic, doing great crossbow and two weapon fighting with finesse weapons.
I've become disappointed with my DPS most of the time. Unless I get critical I feel like I can't do all that much, and quests this high up I just can't do enough sneak attacking with my party for that to help.

I like the ranged/TWF combo play style, and ranger seems like it would be better at that
I'm wondering if I would be happier playing a Ranger with just enough rogue to be able to disarm traps and open locks.

Any recommendations for me?

Thanks!

jnTracks
01-20-2015, 07:32 AM
Also: when should I best splash a rogue level to maximize BAB? Should I start rogue and then switch to ranger at LVL 2? or should I throw one in there later?
I don't really know how it works as I've never done any multi class before.

Loromir
01-20-2015, 07:38 AM
Also: when should I best splash a rogue level to maximize BAB? Should I start rogue and then switch to ranger at LVL 2? or should I throw one in there later?
I don't really know how it works as I've never done any multi class before.


Why not switch to repeating cross bows? That should help your DPS a bit.


If you do decide to LR...take rogue at lvl one...then Ranger from then on out. Some folks also splash 6 lvls of monk to get 10K stars. For Ranged DPS, you would probably like an archer better than a crossbow user.

Saekee
01-20-2015, 07:49 AM
Why not switch to repeating cross bows? That should help your DPS a bit.


If you do decide to LR...take rogue at lvl one...then Ranger from then on out. Some folks also splash 6 lvls of monk to get 10K stars. For Ranged DPS, you would probably like an archer better than a crossbow user.

jnTracks, I am of two minds--I am more tempted to give advice on your approach with how you are running your mechanic as much as giving suggestions on an LR. If this is a first life build, you will find yourself at level 20 very quickly.
If you are ok with playstyle/rogue mechanic advice, let us know and we can chime in.
Otherwise, for ranged/twf combo, ranger is excellent. Like Kinggark says, do level 1 rogue, then ranger--if you like repeaters you can splash arti but you waste manyshot.
Ellisdee has a build called Tempest Trapmonkey that is new player friendly--it is 18 ranger/2 rogue--am on a cellphone so link is not handy.

Another option is to stay pure rogue and combine qstaff with repeater if you like occasional melee options.

unbongwah
01-20-2015, 08:36 AM
See my Mechassin thread for an example of a TWF+repeaters build; and see the Tempest Trapmonkey (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players) thread for examples of rog-splashed rgr builds.

jnTracks
01-20-2015, 09:24 AM
I Just don't get much use from the sneak attack stuff, and end up playing just like an archer/TWF anyway, and ranger would have stronger numbers for that.

So it seems like start rogue and switch to ranger at lvl 2 is a workable path.

I play with my wife, who is still happy with her roll, so it may come down to if I can get my hands on a +1 lesser heart of wood, or if we just wait and reroll later or something.

Enoach
01-20-2015, 09:38 AM
I Just don't get much use from the sneak attack stuff, and end up playing just like an archer/TWF anyway, and ranger would have stronger numbers for that.

So it seems like start rogue and switch to ranger at lvl 2 is a workable path.

I play with my wife, who is still happy with her roll, so it may come down to if I can get my hands on a +1 lesser heart of wood, or if we just wait and reroll later or something.

I would suggest before you reroll to look at options of being able to raise your DPS and give them a try.

Some questions I would have.

Are you using the Bluff Skill? A successful bluff will allow you a window of Sneak Attack
Have you equipped a Deception Item? These items proc and give a small window of Sneak Attack
Are you using a Repeater? Precise Shot? Do you have Improved Precise Shot?


The Ranger/Rogue builds are fun. But it might be good to finish up this life as a Rogue and use the knowledge in your next life.

Loromir
01-20-2015, 10:11 AM
I Just don't get much use from the sneak attack stuff, and end up playing just like an archer/TWF anyway, and ranger would have stronger numbers for that.

So it seems like start rogue and switch to ranger at lvl 2 is a workable path.

I play with my wife, who is still happy with her roll, so it may come down to if I can get my hands on a +1 lesser heart of wood, or if we just wait and reroll later or something.



You will need more than a +1 heart of wood. A +5 heart of wood will allow you to switch out 5 lvls of rogue to ranger. So you can see the problem. You might want to stick it out wit your mechanic build until you reach lvl 20 and then True Reincarnate into your ranger build.

If you stick with the rogue build, you should consider using Repeating crossbows. That will make a big difference in your DPS.

jnTracks
01-20-2015, 10:25 AM
Oh wow really? So I misunderstood how the hearts work. I thought the +1 would let me make one change, and then continue with the class I changed to.
So you're saying I'd have to ad a +1 for every level I wanted to "spend" as a ranger?

Ouch. So this will definitely be a reroll or nothing at all. hahaha!

levy1964
01-20-2015, 10:27 AM
I have a Rogue that just hit 13, mechanic, doing great crossbow and two weapon fighting with finesse weapons.
I've become disappointed with my DPS most of the time. Unless I get critical I feel like I can't do all that much, and quests this high up I just can't do enough sneak attacking with my party for that to help.

I like the ranged/TWF combo play style, and ranger seems like it would be better at that
I'm wondering if I would be happier playing a Ranger with just enough rogue to be able to disarm traps and open locks.

Any recommendations for me?

Thanks!

this is not build fail becouse u have low DPS, if this ur first life u cannot change this but gear....just equip minimal 1 GS weapon (melee) with radII effect

Loromir
01-20-2015, 10:40 AM
Oh wow really? So I misunderstood how the hearts work. I thought the +1 would let me make one change, and then continue with the class I changed to.
So you're saying I'd have to ad a +1 for every level I wanted to "spend" as a ranger?

Ouch. So this will definitely be a reroll or nothing at all. hahaha!


Another option might be to get a +3 heart of wood...and LR out 3 rogue lvls to 3 ranger lvls. Change your stats to compliment archery and then just continue lvls 14-20 in Ranger. I don't think that would be a horrible build. You would end up with enough ranger levels to still do meaningful DPS as an archer or TWF.

Focus your enhancements in Tempest for TWF and Arcance Archer for archer skills. Might not be optimal, but still let you do what you want.

jnTracks
01-20-2015, 10:48 AM
Hey thanks everybody for the advice!
I'll check out repeaters and hey, it's not like it's not fun to play. I just feel a little weak next to the wizard's chain lightening and stuff.
I'll try my ranger next time.
Cheers!

unbongwah
01-20-2015, 11:18 AM
By lvl 12+, you should definitely be using repeaters instead of gt xbows. Feat-wise, on a purely ranged Mechanic, you should have Rapid Reload, Precision, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and IC:Ranged; by lvl 15 you will hopefully have base DEX 19 so you can take Imp Prec Shot. If you've split your focus TWF/repeaters, you'll have different feats, obviously.

Gear-wise, you definitely want Deception / Imp Deception slotted, as it can proc on ranged atks and will help you get more sneak atk DPS. If you're running Gianthold these days, Backstabber's Gloves (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Backstabber%27s_Gloves) is one option, as is Ring of Lies (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_Lies) (though I don't see many people running Reaver's Fate anymore). Later on you can use Golden Guile (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Golden_Guile), which also provides 10% concealment. [You'll also want Silver Slinger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Silver_Slinger) and Doublecross Bow (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Doublecross_Bow), two of the best heroic repeaters.]

Mercureal
01-20-2015, 11:27 AM
OP, I understand where you're coming from, sneak attacks can be tough to get consistently. I certainly had issues for a while on my Rogue life until I got the hand of it. There are several tactics and/or approaches to combat that will help you maximize your sneak attack opportunities, listed below in general order of effectiveness and ease of use or acquisition:

1. Teamwork

If you quest with a party, don't be the first person into a room or new area. Hang back for a few seconds and let you other party members grab the monsters aggro - then, come up from behind or on the flank of the enemy and lay into them. It's best to do this when the monster is already a bit damaged, which increases the probability that you'll kill it before you draw its aggro. If you run solo, you can also do this with a hireling or a summoned monster, but that will be much less effective.

2. Deception and Improved Deception items.

If you're not familiar with it, deception is an effect that makes a monster susceptible to sneak attacks even if it's already aggroed on you. It is available on weapons, and on wearable gear like necklaces or rings, and gives you a percentage chance to trigger the effect on each hit. This chance stacks if you have both a weapon and a wearable item, but the effect from two weapons won't stack. It can be found on random loot weapons, and there should be several available on the Auction House; it can also be crafted for a weapon through Cannith Crafting. For wearable items, I've only seen it on named items. Here is a list of items from DDOWiki that have it in some form: http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Deception_items

3. Bluff skill.

This is less effective, but it works if you have Bluff high enough. It has a 15-second cooldown, so you won't get a lot of sneak attacks using it alone, but you can get some, and using it in combination with the above suggestions will get you more. Note that you'll probably have to wear an item giving you a bonus to your Bluff skill to be consistently successful with this. Fortunately, Deception items boost your bluff skill, and some of the named items with Deception also give you a big bonus to Bluff.

4. Working with a friendly caster who has a blinding spell.

You get automatic sneak attacks against any blinded enemy. Blinding is also useful more generally in tough fights, as blinded enemies are not very dangerous. However, this tactic depends on having a caster willing to use it - also, some players don't like blinding effects because it causes the monsters to move around randomly.

Blinding effect page on the wiki: http://ddowiki.com/page/Blinded

Spells that can blind a group of enemies are: Sunburst, Glitterdust, Holy Smite, Sleet Storm (note that sleet storm also blinds party members and seriously slows the movement of anyone in it, so it may not be the best choice to use, though the wizard may enjoy casting it...)

5. A Radiance item. http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiance_(crafted_item)

This is at the bottom because it's likely the most difficult thing in the list to acquire. Radiance is an effect that blinds an individual enemy - when it's on a weapon, it blinds them when you get a critical hit, and on a wearable item, if has a chance to blind them when they hit you. However, it is only found on a few Epic items, or on crafted Greensteel items from the Shroud raid. I'm guessing you're a relatively new player, so these options won't be available to you in the short-term. They may be worth considering on a longer-term basis however.


So, to summarize, there are a number of methods you can use to help land sneak attacks, involving gear, personal abilities, teamwork and tactics. No one approach will give you 100% sneak attacks, but if used together and with practice, they can help you get sneak attacks well over 75% of the time. Playing a rogue effectively is a challenge and has a learning curve, but if you enjoy the style it's definitely worth the investment of time and energy.