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View Full Version : Botched up - build/resolution advice appreciated



lendarker
01-09-2015, 04:40 AM
Hey,

short history: I played DDO a few years back up to about level 5 or so, which was enough to have me buy WF, monk, several adventure packs, veteran status, and 32 point builds. Took a long hiatus, and with the christmas specials returned, buying both expansions plus the starter pack after playing for a week again.

I've since created toons on all the servers, to feel them out, and to experiment with builds. However, this leads to a two-fold conundrum. On my current toon on Ghallanda, I ate my greater tome of heroic learning on a build where I focused on summons (augment summoning, harper tree +4), and am sitting on Cl3/Ftr1/Pal1 right now...and, newbie that I am, I realized that when I want to actually play with other people, odds are my hirelings will not even get into play, and the bonus to summons is limited to my monster summons, instead of leading a pack of superpowered minions into battle (starter pack permanent hire, regular hire, plus summon spell).

So, I realized I might be better off rolling pure paladin, and just going vanguard/defender for good survivability, soloability, and party utility, but I realized that I'd either have to buy a +3/+5 lesser heart of wood, or a new greater tome of heroic learning if I wanted to retain that bonus (in case I decided to roll a new toon).

So far, I have chosen not to roll iconics (the rogue, cleric, and warrior iconics came with the expansions)...I'd prefer to level at least one character up to those levels the regular way in order to learn how to play at those levels.

So, damage control. What would be the suggested course of action?

1. Keep leveling as cleric, and TR? (not sure I want that expectation of being the group's healer on me)
2. Bite the bullet, and buy that Heart to LR, or that tome for a new toon?
3. reroll a new toon, and do without the XP bonus?
4. go to a different server?
5. any suggestions for a paladin build that will be able to work with my current cleric and fighter levels, without being completely crippled, until I can TR him? Something like Pal 15/Cl3/Ftr2, Pal 16/Cl3/Ftr1, or whatever makes sense? I haven't used my lesser heart, yet, so I can at least reroll without changing my current classes.

If possible, and if reasonably good builds exist for 5., I'd love to hear them. I'd also prefer a melee build over a caster build.

Thanks for any help.

Khatzhas
01-09-2015, 05:34 AM
What race are you? Do you have access to Druid?
As messy as it seems, you could probably put together a Druid spellcaster using summons, wolf and flame blades as a caster + melee type. (Particularly if elf with scimitar enhancements.) You can heal if you want, but people don't generally expect you to. Plus, if the group needs a healer hireling, yours will be tougher.

Are you looking for something hyperoptimised, or just something good enough to get you to high level and into reincarnation territory? You could probably just stick with Paladin levels from now on and use the Cleric levels for a few more SP, buff spells, and access to Warpriest enhancements. Likewise your Fighter level is giving you a feat and further enhancement access, so isn't a "wasted" level.

The forums tend towards extreme exaggeration and hyperbole, so you might need to be a bit more specific. Some people might use "completely crippled" to mean "5% less effective". Its obvious that you know enough that whatever you make of that character, its going to be better than a pregen path for example. :D

lendarker
01-09-2015, 05:52 AM
Currently human, and yes, I have access to druid since it came with one of the expansions (but have no clue what to do with that/how to build and play one).

About the fighter level: yes, I figured, I kinda fell in love with tower shields, and since fighters get that for free...I chose the easy way of bumping up my ac that way.

As far as elitism goes, my aim is not to go soloing EE right now. My first goal would be to reach level 20 comfortably, and have a somewhat tanky/survivable build that doesn't rely on crowd control to survive but can take a few hits (i.e. a build that offers me a bit more leeway in terms of making mistakes...which as a beginner I do make lots of, I'm sure).

In a nutshell, I don't care about not scratching the top 5% in power and efficiency, but I'd prefer if anything that went into the character offered something of value to the build (or if that isn't possible, it'd be nice if it detracted the minimum amount possible).

Druid also means I'd *have* to buy a +5 lesser heart in order to respec the classes, which comes with a fairly steep price tag, imo - I mean the same kind of money bought me a full expansion a few weeks before christmas.

If I can get the current character working out somehow with the classes I already have, that'd be rad.

Bluegirl_Two
01-09-2015, 06:07 AM
Druid suggestion is problematic because A) you already have 3 character classes on the build and B) you must be LG with the paladin level and C) to follow the druid suggestion you would have to LR twice with an alignment change in between. None of that is smart because it is expensive in Turbine points cost (and, thus, in real life money).

I run several paladin 16/fighter 4 builds and they are far from weak. You can have basically the same type of character replacing the fighter 4 with your current cleric 3/fighter 1.

At your current level you have selected 3 (or if human, 4) feats. You can get a free feat exchange by talking to Lockania in the Marketplace and doing the solo quest Hall of the Mark. When complete you can then go to House Jorasco and find Fred the mindflayer. There you can exchange any feat you do not want for one that you do. You can also pay astral shards (which you might have some of with all your purchases) or platinum plus a Siberys Dragonshard.

But, with only 3 feats on the character it is hard to have gone too wrong. I'll assume from your post that you took Augment Summoning. It won't kill you to be stuck with that. On the other hand, if you can exchange it for Shield Mastery then I would do that.

You then simply stick with paladin for your remaining levels picking up as many of the following feats as you can (there is considerable leeway depending on your preferences):

Shield Mastery
Improved Shield Mastery
Improved Critical: Slashing (or Piercing depending on your primary weapon type)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Precision
Improved Shield Bash
Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword (or Dwarven Axe) -- not needed if you are dwarf
THF
ITHF
GTHF

There is enough in there to go sword and board or to go two-handed fighting depending on your initial stats and such.

But, don't spend more money. Even if all you do is limp through until L20 and then reincarnate it is better than trying to be perfect now.

lendarker
01-09-2015, 06:21 AM
Thanks, all valuable input so far. As for going Pal16/Cl3/Ftr1 (is that the best suggested spread, or is it worth picking up, say, a second level of Ftr and only 15 levels of Pal, or 14 Pal/4 Cl/2 Ftr etc. ?), should I stick with my current stat distribution, or is it worth using that standard lesser heart of wood that every character gets (and which I still have)?

What stat distribution would you suggest for such a build?

Btw. S&B is perfect. The feats I picked so far (and which LR would allow me to change):

Augment Summoning (probably nice for solo, less nice for group play?)
Empower Spell (Empower Healing would have been better for Cl, I learned when examining the enhancement trees eventually...)
Extend Spell (mainly to have to recast summons less frequently)
Follower of the Sovereign Host
Shield Mastery

I've stuck to the default Sovereign Host Longswords for now.

If LRing, I'd change this to:

Follower of the Sovereign Host
Shield Mastery
Power Attack
Improved Shield Bash (too early for this?)
and likely either Augment Summoning, or Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (if Augment Summoning, I'd probably plan to swap that one out later on)

Does this sound reasonable?

Bluegirl_Two
01-09-2015, 07:15 AM
If you have the free LR I would use it and keep your current class choices.

I would go with 16 STR 16 CON 16 CHA and 10 WIS on a 32 point build. Although WIS is the casting stat I would not go more than 10 WIS because you will pick up stat boosting gear so there really is no need.

I am not a fan of the Weapon Focus feats. Unless playing a fighter where they might be prerequisites in some cases I can't see any real value in them.

Same with Augment Summoning if you are going to use the LR. No reason to take it.

I would take Empower Healing to boost your cure spells.

lendarker
01-09-2015, 07:30 AM
Okay, a few more questions:

For a new player, with less access to hand-me-downs and crafting, etc. - can it make sense to take e.g. 14 CHA or 14 CON and up DEX to 12 or DEX and INT to 10 or so (to remedy the AC malus and have a few more skillpoints available)?

What are the most important advantages of bastard swords over longswords? How much of a damage boost does this feat get me?

Feats:

Follower of the Sovereign Host
Shield Mastery
Power Attack

open for debate, or rather, in what oder should I take these, or should I take the cleaves before these, etc.?

Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
Improved Shield Bash
Empower Healing

marinerfan
01-09-2015, 09:28 AM
I have had a lot of fun leveling a 12 paladin/6 cleric/2 fighter build..with the changes to paladin 12 is not the best split anymore, but it can certainly get you to 20 so you can TR. Really, you can take whatever enhancements you want on the build (i took stunning blow, quicken, empower healing) and play the character as an indestructible heal/tank (i get free healing from ameliorating strike of warpriest tree, and put enough into the cleric healer tree to get regenerating turns) and then just cleave/great cleave/ameliorating strike/radiant burst/stunning blow then repeat. Also crank charisma and strength, take the thingy in warpriest that adds your cha modifier to strength = huge strength.

I consider this a fine starter build, just use the best random loot 2 handed weapon you find, or buy the cheap falchion from the diplomatic impunity chain (I forget the name)..

unbongwah
01-09-2015, 09:30 AM
Cl3/Ftr1/Pal1 right now
If you don't want to go mostly-cleric and you don't want to spend money on an LR +X, then my inclination would be to level as pal 15 / cleric 4 / ftr 1. You should have a free lesser heart of wood in your inventory you can use if you need to redo stats etc.; you're also low enough level that feat swaps thru Fred (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fred) are still relatively cheap.

Stats: STR & CHA primary, CON secondary, enough DEX for any feat pre-reqs, enough INT for however many skill pts you need, dump WIS
Feats: THF/TWF/SWF chain (whichever combat style you prefer); Power Atk and/or Precision (latter req's base DEX 13); Improved Crit; remaining feats season to taste. [S&B is an option, but as a heavily-MCed pally you would miss out on Vanguard lvl 18 & 20 core enhs, which is a significant DPS hit.]
Enhancements: at least 33 APs into KotC for Avenging Cleave; 22 APs into Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike; 13 APs into Sacred D. for extra LoHs, defensive stance (at least +25 PRR and either +20% HPs or +6 STR). That leaves 12 APs to tweak things elsewhere.

lendarker
01-09-2015, 10:27 AM
Okay, rerolled before reading your last post, and I probably would have gone 10 int instead of 10 wis had I read it earlier.

I have really been looking forward to doing S&B. How much of a DPS hit are we talking about? Remember, we're talking a "TR at 20" life here, in all likelihood, and survival/being able to take that one more hit that'll allow me to make good a previous mistake could be just as useful as 10% higher DPS.

As far as enhancements go, for now I picked the lowest-hanging fruit of all trees, mostly +hit/damage, as well as shield bash and smite foe for the extra attacks/damage. I'm sure I'll have to revisit my enhancement trees frequently as I go along and learn more.

For now, thank you all for your valuable and insightful advice. I'm "sort of" back on track, and rolling along, and will see how it all goes.

Lonnbeimnech
01-09-2015, 10:35 AM
1. Keep leveling as cleric, and TR? (not sure I want that expectation of being the group's healer on me)

Do this.

As far as the healer bit, just go about killing stuff and healing yourself. If anyone complains, link a stack of raise dead scrolls and say something like, 'don't worry, I got you covered'.

lendarker
01-09-2015, 10:45 AM
Heh, so many different flavors and tastes. Thanks for the feedback!

ValariusK
01-09-2015, 12:55 PM
Heh, so many different flavors and tastes. Thanks for the feedback!

Since you've got cleric levels, I suggest 4 of them. That'll get you AM strike. AM strike works seriously well with TWF builds. Since you have pally levels, I suggest getting at least 3 of them, maybe even 4. 3 pally levels gives you access to sacred defense stance, which is really powerful. Besides the 15 pally 3 cleric 2 fighter suggestion (which is a pretty decent build), I suggest also the option of 12 fighter/ 4 pally/ 4 cleric.
If you're ok being a cleric primary---and in my experience, clerics really aren't expected to heal much anymore, if you raise the dead, buff at shrines, and proc an ameleriorating strike fairly regularly, you'll be doing more than most clerics. You don't need to glue your eyes to the heal bars anymore, that social expectation doesn't really exist presently in the metagame. But cleric 17/pally-2/fighter 1 is a strong build. 9th level spells, strong saves, and a bonus feat from fighter.

AbyssalMage
01-09-2015, 03:32 PM
Heh, so many different flavors and tastes. Thanks for the feedback!
15/4/1 Paladin/Cleric/Fighter - Best bet if min/maxing

Str build - Cleric is for AM (like a poster above stated) and Fighter for the bonus feat. Str/Con/Cha should be your focus stats with enough Wisdom to cast your few spells.
You have to talk to Fred to change feats around (a lot) or...
Eat a Lesser Reincarnation Heart (+5 can get rid of the Cleric/Fighter levels as you know)
THF - Because everyone likes big swords :p
Nice PL feat when/if you TR


17/2/1 Cleric/Paladin/Fighter - You said you didn't want to be primary healer but most people don't run with primary healers anyways. This is more of a Battle Cleric where the party just gets to "heal in your glow."

Str build - This is actually "Radiant Titan". Should be able to find the build on Forums
You have to talk to Fred to change feats around (a lot) or...
Eat a Lesser Reincarnation Heart (Don't need a +5 cause you are not getting rid of any level splits, BIG bonus)
THF - Because you don't have a lot of feats to play with anyways.
Gets your Cleric PL out of the way when XP to cap is lower
Aura/Burst - Should keep the majority of people around you standing up. People who aren't melee may be more trouble as you have to target them for heals. Just let people know they should keep an eye on there own health while in groups :)

Bart_D
01-12-2015, 06:50 AM
I'm late to the thread, but I think any combination of Cleric/Paladin/Fighter can work. I'd not have any problem accepting a 6/6/6 (or whatever) when running, say, Vale of Twilight elites at level 18.