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GoldyGopher
12-30-2014, 03:21 PM
Well actually as far as I am concerned it's well past time.

I am not talking just Domains for Clerics/Favored Souls/Paladins but Deities for every character in the game. I mean Dungeons & Dragons is a game about Deities and Demi-Gods and the characters desire to either appease or replace their favorite Deity or was it the DM's to punish the characters I forget which one now-a-days.

Each character can once per day (character day not player day) pray to their Deity, much like Daily Dice except it is based on characters day which is either 4 or 5 hours, again I forget the current day length in DDO. For each consecutive day your character prays to their favored deity that get +05 to their Daily Pray roll. A Character has prayed 2 consecutive days their daily roll would be the result of the dice +10

For example I have a Human Paladin who has chosen Tyr as his Deity.

Benefits
Followers of Tyr gain a +1 to attack and damage with a Long Sword per 5 character levels. A level 30 character would +6 Attack and Damage with a Long Sword

Daily Prayer for Tyr
01 - Your character have forsaken Tyr lose your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
02-03 - Your character has upset Tyr lose 1/2 your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
04-07 - Your character has disappointed Tyr lose 1/4 your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
08-15 - Tyr is discouraged in your characters faith to him lose 1 point of your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
16-31 - Tyr grants your character +1 to all skill Checks for the next hour
32-47 - Tyr grants your character +1 to both Attack and Damage Rolls for the next hour
48-63 - Tyr grants your character +1 to Attack and Damage for the next 2 hours
64-71 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 2 hours
72-79 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 3 hours
80-87 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 4 hours
88-97 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 5 hours
98-99 - Tyr grants your character +1 to all of their stats for the next 5 hours
100 - Tyr grants your character +2 to all of their stats for the next 5 hours

The list for daily roll is not in any way shape or form balanced or completely thought out beyond the roughest of terms. The idea is that it is possible to not have you Deities Favor for the day as well as some bonus that can last up to five hours.

The goddess Tymora, Lady Luck, might have a luck bonus for Chests and something if you use the Harper Enhancement Tree, there are so many possibilities to bring about a long deserved addition to the game.

Saekee
12-30-2014, 03:34 PM
I wish deity favor had been implemented at the outset so that even certain dialogue choices within quests played into alignment, deity, racial favor, etc.

GoldyGopher
12-30-2014, 03:48 PM
I wish deity favor had been implemented at the outset so that even certain dialogue choices within quests played into alignment, deity, racial favor, etc.

Exactly.... But none the less..

TeacherSyn
12-30-2014, 03:55 PM
I don't have problems with having benefits of deities for certain alignments and classes. In fact, we do have these. But if you're looking for more supernatural boosts from aligning to one god over another, I suspect DDO doesn't do that for game balance or programming simplicity.

Some points of order, though. You're mentioning Tyr and Tymora. These are Forgotten Realms deities (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Deity), not of Eberron.

From a gameplay perspective, we're inundated with deities that mess with us, but often in a take-over-the-world context and not in individual banes or benefits as you're describing.

In Eberron lore, gods are more naturalistic/dualistic (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/gods). The Devourer and Arawai, for instance. Eberron deities also have a more general presence and aren't as full of intervening zeal as is in the Realms. Most of Eberron's deities seem intent on tearing the world up, and our Good/beneficial gods are few or passive. When we first see Elminster, he's talking about Lolth and then the lost Mystra. It's all about godly power from then on in with the Thread of the Weave.

I might be picking nits. And I'm familiar with how alignment to a deity helped my characters in old Neverwinter Nights gaming. Without breaking balance, what Eberron deities could we Good/Neutral characters align with, what powers could be added, what limits must there be (for instance, multiclassed characters can't have multiple deities in their fold), and how would that be added into the game with the current format without breaking something?

nibel
12-30-2014, 05:07 PM
In Eberron lore, gods are more naturalistic/dualistic (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/gods). The Devourer and Arawai, for instance. Eberron deities also have a more general presence and aren't as full of intervening zeal as is in the Realms. Most of Eberron's deities seem intent on tearing the world up, and our Good/beneficial gods are few or passive.

Not only that, but the very nature of divine magic in Eberron is set up for debate, because the Sovereign Host (and the Six) "do not exist", even for planar travelers. No one has ever seen an avatar or direct divine intervention of an eberronian deity.

"But the Silver Flame..."

The Silver Flame exists, and its followers have powers granted by it. So it should be enough proof that the Host is somewhere as well, right? Well, if you ignore the fact that clerics that do not worship any specific deity exists, and that the Lord of Blades also grant spells without having the powers of a divine being (his official statistics are level 12)...

So, in Eberron this kind of divine empowerment would not exist. At least, not in this testable manner for everyone. And it might just be the character using her own powers to buff herself.

Uska
12-30-2014, 05:10 PM
Umm no it's not we are still based mainly on Eberron and the deities there are much less connected to,the world and I would prefer things stay that way except for domains. The best games I have played in have been whoppers gsme religon was abstract and to be honest I am a lot more comfortable with it thst way

Kasiddy
12-31-2014, 01:39 AM
I would just be happy for the sovereign host and gatekeepers to be implemented in some way more meaningful that just watching on the sides like we have now, maybe Vulkoor, too. The silver flame is a very young religion (in the grand scheme of the Eberron timeline) and I don't see why they are the only active religious faction in Stormreach for PCs. Yes, there is a feat choice and the Relic quest, but nothing really meaningful you do in game, except maybe choose to skip Purge the Heretics quest...

The_Human_Cypher
12-31-2014, 02:05 AM
Neverwinter Online has a deity system for its characters. I suggested expanding deities and religions in the game awhile back. Quests and feats specific to deities can be added to the game with this system.

Uska
12-31-2014, 04:44 AM
Neverwinter Online has a deity system for its characters. I suggested expanding deities and religions in the game awhile back. Quests and feats specific to deities can be added to the game with this system.

We have get little enough content now that we cant specify it like that.

GoldyGopher
12-31-2014, 10:57 AM
I am a long time advocate for both1 MORE CONTENT and MINIMIZING LAG in DDO, it is as far as I am concerned the two biggest drawbacks to being a long time player in the game.

IMHO the biggest two issues in retaining new players in DDO are the difficulty of character creation and how poorly designed a number of predefined paths are and the inability to immerse players into their characters world. There are way too many loading screens in the first hour of game play2, a quest that is way too difficult for new players3, to top it off the things that made D&D RPG some much fun just aren't in the game. Well I am old enough to have an Original Copy of the first edition of D&D (mimeographed with the pale yellow cover) given to me by Dave Arneson himself (after an incident involving throwing dice and looking for a hammer) it wasn't until I received a copy of Deities & Demigods that D&D really came alive.

http://www.gameknightreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/deities-and-demigods-1e-cover.jpg

We can have a philosophical discussion on the religions of Eberron however in my understanding if you are a worshipper of Onatar (Roughly the God or Fire/Creation) you hold the rest of the Sovereign Host in high regard. Same goes with the other eight Deities of the Sovereign Host. The Dark Six formerly belonged to the Sovereign Host and were given the boot forming the own Pantheon, in addition you have the Silver Flame (and the immortal Jaela Daran), The Blood of Vol, the Cult(s) of the Dragon Below, The Vulkoor, The Dreaming Dark, the Druidic Sects (Gatekeeper and the Children of Winter).
I should also point out that alignment in terms of matching you Deity's alignment does not matter in Eberron as it does in other campaign settings, a Dol Arrah does not need to be LG, rather they could be CE.

1) Notice that it is bold, Italicized, colored red, and underlined to demonstrate how important those two things are to me.
2) In the first hour of play a new player can expect to see upwards of 20 loading screens.
3) The Cannith Crystal is one of those quests which is a total pain in the bottom for new players, protect a crystal that has like 10 HP, one mistake and bam your done.

TeacherSyn
12-31-2014, 11:26 AM
I am a long time advocate for both1 MORE CONTENT and MINIMIZING LAG in DDO, it is as far as I am concerned the two biggest drawbacks to being a long time player in the game.

IMHO the biggest two issues in retaining new players in DDO are the difficulty of character creation and how poorly designed a number of predefined paths are and the inability to immerse players into their characters world. There are way too many loading screens in the first hour of game play2, a quest that is way too difficult for new players3, to top it off the things that made D&D RPG some much fun just aren't in the game. Well I am old enough to have an Original Copy of the first edition of D&D (mimeographed with the pale yellow cover) given to me by Dave Arneson himself (after an incident involving throwing dice and looking for a hammer) it wasn't until I received a copy of Deities & Demigods that D&D really came alive.

http://www.gameknightreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/deities-and-demigods-1e-cover.jpg

We can have a philosophical discussion on the religions of Eberron however in my understanding if you are a worshipper of Onatar (Roughly the God or Fire/Creation) you hold the rest of the Sovereign Host in high regard. Same goes with the other eight Deities of the Sovereign Host. The Dark Six formerly belonged to the Sovereign Host and were given the boot forming the own Pantheon, in addition you have the Silver Flame (and the immortal Jaela Daran), The Blood of Vol, the Cult(s) of the Dragon Below, The Vulkoor, The Dreaming Dark, the Druidic Sects (Gatekeeper and the Children of Winter).
I should also point out that alignment in terms of matching you Deity's alignment does not matter in Eberron as it does in other campaign settings, a Dol Arrah does not need to be LG, rather they could be CE.

1) Notice that it is bold, Italicized, colored red, and underlined to demonstrate how important those two things are to me.
2) In the first hour of play a new player can expect to see upwards of 20 loading screens.
3) The Cannith Crystal is one of those quests which is a total pain in the bottom for new players, protect a crystal that has like 10 HP, one mistake and bam your done.

I totally get it. I think DDO does a pretty good job at entwining cosmic battles with us tiny adventurers. But, as all things go, it's the delivery that's wanting, sometimes. I want some great immersion, too.

The Dreaming Dark storyline is compelling if you bother to read the dialogue or if more dramatic flavor text or NPC shuffling occurred. We got a little taste of better dramatic delivery with the Lords of Dust prelude to MoTU ("The Spinner of Shadows" worked very well) and the Storm Horns quest chain is my all-time favorite. We don't see Shar in it, but those enemies clearly get serious boons from her.

Better delivery of how the deities care, don't care, or try to screw you over is always welcome. I think "Caught in the Web" didn't do a bad job; Lolth is full of snark to go with the INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWERS she abuses.

I would personally love to see the Drow player character get an origin option. Right now, the Drow get bonuses that reflect the Eberron ties to Vulkoor. But I'd love to get the benefits of Lolth. The NPC priestesses are some of the nastiest things. A player character with that power would have some fun options.

Kamode_Corebasher
12-31-2014, 01:13 PM
I would love to see something along these lines added to the game...just not at the expense of new quests and content. So if work on this is already half complete and just sitting around, then implement away...or if you have a new influx of staff and money, then go for it (says me <--who is just one of many with differing thoughts and wants :-) )

Also, with the worlds of Eberron and Toril now linked through the web created by Lloth, I see no problem allowing characters access to both worlds deities...that said, I see no problems keeping them separate too.


Well actually as far as I am concerned it's well past time.

I am not talking just Domains for Clerics/Favored Souls/Paladins but Deities for every character in the game. I mean Dungeons & Dragons is a game about Deities and Demi-Gods and the characters desire to either appease or replace their favorite Deity or was it the DM's to punish the characters I forget which one now-a-days.

Each character can once per day (character day not player day) pray to their Deity, much like Daily Dice except it is based on characters day which is either 4 or 5 hours, again I forget the current day length in DDO. For each consecutive day your character prays to their favored deity that get +05 to their Daily Pray roll. A Character has prayed 2 consecutive days their daily roll would be the result of the dice +10

For example I have a Human Paladin who has chosen Tyr as his Deity.

Benefits
Followers of Tyr gain a +1 to attack and damage with a Long Sword per 5 character levels. A level 30 character would +6 Attack and Damage with a Long Sword

Daily Prayer for Tyr
01 - Your character have forsaken Tyr lose your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
02-03 - Your character has upset Tyr lose 1/2 your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
04-07 - Your character has disappointed Tyr lose 1/4 your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
08-15 - Tyr is discouraged in your characters faith to him lose 1 point of your Deities Bonus to Attack and Damage for 1 Hour.
16-31 - Tyr grants your character +1 to all skill Checks for the next hour
32-47 - Tyr grants your character +1 to both Attack and Damage Rolls for the next hour
48-63 - Tyr grants your character +1 to Attack and Damage for the next 2 hours
64-71 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 2 hours
72-79 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 3 hours
80-87 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 4 hours
88-97 - Tyr grants your character +2 to Attack and Damage for the next 5 hours
98-99 - Tyr grants your character +1 to all of their stats for the next 5 hours
100 - Tyr grants your character +2 to all of their stats for the next 5 hours

The list for daily roll is not in any way shape or form balanced or completely thought out beyond the roughest of terms. The idea is that it is possible to not have you Deities Favor for the day as well as some bonus that can last up to five hours.

The goddess Tymora, Lady Luck, might have a luck bonus for Chests and something if you use the Harper Enhancement Tree, there are so many possibilities to bring about a long deserved addition to the game.

nibel
12-31-2014, 03:49 PM
We can have a philosophical discussion on the religions of Eberron however in my understanding if you are a worshipper of Onatar (Roughly the God or Fire/Creation) you hold the rest of the Sovereign Host in high regard. Same goes with the other eight Deities of the Sovereign Host. The Dark Six formerly belonged to the Sovereign Host and were given the boot forming the own Pantheon, in addition you have the Silver Flame (and the immortal Jaela Daran), The Blood of Vol, the Cult(s) of the Dragon Below, The Vulkoor, The Dreaming Dark, the Druidic Sects (Gatekeeper and the Children of Winter).

It goes a bit more complicated than that.

For starters, the "Dark Six" is not an exclusive group. They are still part of the Sovereign Host. Just that they represent the "bad" aspects of life.

The Shadow is a direct image from Aureon. He is the one responsible for the creation of monster races with magical abilities that Aureon forgave that the "common races" had, like the harpies' voice, or the medusa's petrifying glare. Aureon represents the conscient and responsible use of magic, while the Shadow embodies the same power, but with not a single care about what comes from unleashing it out.
Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah are the good aspects of war (Justice and Honor), but Dol Azur (The Mockery) represents the third aspect: Victory at any cost. Dol Azur is not the strongest or the smartest of the Dol, but he always win. In times of war, when you can't afford to lose, you resort to the Mockery, because you know his blessing will bring you victory. The cost might be a fort, or all of your soldiers, but nonetheless, you will emerge victorious.
The Devourer is the destructive force of nature. He represents earthquakes, tsunamis, sandstorms, and every other natural catastrophe. His motto is that he is harsh, but he only destroy the weak. The strong can survive his trials, and emerge even stronger from them. This goes in conflict with Arawai (agriculture) and Balinor (hunting), who provides feeding for the weak.
The Fury is the raw power of emotions. Daughter of The Devourer and Arawai, her domains goes from the passion from which a bard writes love songs, to the destructive powers of barbarian rages.
Kol Korran is the god of wealth, commerce, and generosity in general. His brother, the Keeper, is the greed and gluttony. Everything he wants, he takes. Everything he takes, he keeps. He is the dark side of wealth and nobility.
And finally, we have The Traveler, the only non-evil deity on the Six. He got distanced from the other nine because he embraces change. And no one likes changes. The other gods (including the other members of the dark six) like the way the world is right now, and make no effort to change it. The Traveler embraces change for the sake of change. Every major change in Eberron is said to have his hand on it: The dawn of the Age of Demons, the Quori invasion from the Age of Giants, the Xoriat infestation from the Dhakaani Empire, The Last War, the Day of Mourning... and no one know what else.


But the major point is: As long as you are devout of one of those 15 gods, you automatically also give respect for the rest of the pantheon. A farmer may make additional rites to appease the Devourer in addition to his daily rites to Arawai. Someone that want to climbup the social ladder might make a plead to the Traveler. It is not as simple as "oh, the six are evil, so only evil people worship them".

It might be worth to note that the Silver Flame also acknowledge the existence of the Host, and actually believe that they were the deities that created Eberron. It is just that they believe the Flame is better to apply order over Eberron than the Host, because the Flame is the embodiment of everything that is just and righteous. That is why the SF devouts are usually much more active than the Host priests. The Host don't have to work to change the status quo because they ARE the status quo. The Silver Flame is active, and is easily the second major religion on Khrovaire, but the Host is just too big and too spread out in popular culture.

Everything else (Blood of Vol, druidic sects, cults of khyber, etc) are minor roles at best, except outside Khorvaire. The Path of Inspiration is the only religion in Sarlona (except by the Kalashtar rebels that follow the Path of Light). Aerenal have the direct protection of the Undying Court. Vulkoor is only relevant to DDO because we play in Xen'drik, and the Host priests vow that Vulkoor is just an aspect of the Mockery.

(and that is one of the reasons why I love Eberron. You can't have this kind of discussion in settings with active deities because someone can just planar shift there and ask the deity directly what is their ethos, and all is solved.)

fmalfeas
12-31-2014, 09:02 PM
Yeah, in Eberron, the only Deity at all likely to intervene is the Flame, and even that's not so likely.

In Toril? /All/ the gods are interventionist beings. Why? Because they got arrogant, cocky, and rude. After Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul stole the Tablets of Fate from AO, AO cast all the god (even the non-human gods) down to the world in a single avatar, unable to replicate themselves in multiple avatars, or even use most of their divine power. And they could die. He watched what they did. Only /2/ of all the gods received praise from him when it was over, because they actually held true to their dogma and duties. The rest kinda just did whatever they felt like. (Those two, btw, were Helm, who wasn't cast down, but did destroy Mystra when she tried to force her way past him...which was his orders...to defend his post. And Torm, who sacrificed his life protecting mortals from a more powerful god...Bane. Not only did he due that, but in his righteous fury, he managed to strike Bane down as he fell. AO flat out ressurected Torm because of that. Torm the True.)

After the Avatar Crisis, AO dropped a new rule on the gods. Their power, and thus their immortality and divinity, were directly linked to their faithful. Lose your followers...lose your power. This had some interesting effects. The divine ranks shifted suddenly. Gods like Torm increased in power. A few waned vastly. But their portfolios (what they're gods of) became ultra-important. If you were god of ornamental shrubberies, every time someone planted or admired or tended to an ornamental shrubbery, it would feed you a trickle of power. So even if people forgot you, so long as your portfolios didn't vanish, you stayed...but if they forgot you, it wouldn't be hard for another god to take those portfolios from you.

This set the stage for the event that left many of the huge uber-heroes of the Realms conflicted. When Bane managed to ressurect (he'd had plans in place in case of his demise for a very long time), he catapulted back to Greater God status in no time...because the Tyrant God of Hatred and Fear is hard to forget, and his influence is /everywhere/. He quickly stripped his portfolios back (from Cyric). But (and this is what left the heroes conflicted), Bane declared a full pogrom against Cyric and his faithful for daring to take what belonged to Bane (especially without having what it took to keep it when Bane returned).

Cyric is a really, really, really, really nasty god. But Bane, the Black Hand, is one of the absolute most powerful gods Toril has ever known, is brilliant, charismatic, and incredibly dangerous. His sights are set on nothing less than absolute dominion over everyone and everything. He even keeps other gods as basically slaves, and if there's any dark god actually capable of making good on their talk and plans...it's Bane. So...do you intervene when the crazy murder-god is under siege by the 'Big Bad', who doesn't even want to own him or his portfolios...he just wants him dead? Do you just let them duke it out, and try to minimize collateral damage? Do you take a side?

The question pretty much paralyzed them in regards to that situation.

Why do I bring this up in such detail? Because it's an example of interventionism. Not only did Bane directly tell his followers to gank Cyricites, but his divine caster followers, if they corner them, tend to get a temporary power that causes their hand to erupt in green-black fire, /just/ to burn 'Heretic' into the Cyricite corpse's chest. (They usually strip them afterwards, and toss the body where it will be found as a warning not to worship Cyric.)

Eberron doesn't have such active, intervening deities. So i doubt a 'prayer system' would get anywhere with them. Though they'd probably get pretty annoyed if the nosier of the Faerunian deities started poking their heads in. Would be difficult to do, since Lloth used the infinite connectivity of the Abyss to reach Eberron, homing in on a fragment of herself. But...Bane dwells in the Barrens of Doom and Despair, directly connected to the Nine Hells of Baator (allies of his)...and the Nine Hells can likely reach Shavarath. He's the deity with the most motivation, capability, and competence to 'move in' on Eberron. And that wouldn't be pleasant.

(Bane also grants his clerics unique spells. Specifically Mystic Lash - untyped magical damage that can be released to grapple it's target upon hit if the cleric wants. And Battletide - AoE slow, and so long as even one of the enemies is slowed by it, the cleric is hasted.)

Ayseifn
12-31-2014, 09:21 PM
I'd just be happy with more options when I play a divine. A Hunter of the Dead paladin can multi class with Pale Master and Assassin too, we have no silly favoured class system with XP penalties either so why not open up picking deities?

Heck you could tie it into favour unlocks if you want IDC, if I get enough favour with the Silver Flame my PDK cleric can swap deities or whatever just give me more than one god as a choice please.

Renwa1
01-05-2015, 11:08 AM
I vote this goes to the Hall of Fame because it is such a hot button issue. And thanks for the picture of the original Deities and Demigods book. I used to own the original set as well. But I got rid of them, and stopped playing for decades. So it was nice to see it again. :) I loved how NWN and especially NWN2 handled deities, however I think the Lords of Dust chain is one of the very best quests, so I understand Spencariens comments and empathize with that position as well. This is why I think this should go to the Hall of Fame.

On another note, why not use this as a money generator for DDO? VIP and pay only people can have access to the benefits that come from declaring a deity. This would make them the "Favoured Souls" of the game. :)

General_Gronker
01-06-2015, 08:12 AM
No. I'm here to play DDO, not Neverwinter. And I'm disappointed that this wasn't about either fighting deities (which really should become an option with the level cap of 30 coming up Soon TM) or becoming deities (well, Immortals), if we're going old school.