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CPDK9
12-15-2014, 02:35 PM
I finally have my first toon ready to heroic TR. I know that there is a comprehensive guide on "how to" TR, but is there any such guide that covers the strategy of the process? Should I have a final toon type in mind to plan for this TR and future? Should I continue further into epic and epic TR?

FYI - my toon is a human 18 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 1 fighter that fell into the dex based trap, although seems to work fine for most heroic quests. +2 and +3 tomes for all abilities, but dexterity which has a +5. Currently using the Shiradi destiny path. Mostly a solo player (part of the reason for the rogue splash), but have run with a few PUGs. I have a nice variety of scimitars and bows (vorpal, disruption, banishing, smiting) to use based on the adventure.

I was thinking of TR into an elf ranger to take advantage of the dex, but I know that the damage support for dex is not there, so I'm not fully commited to that path. If I would have to pick a final class, I think I would want this toon to end as a ranger.

Enoach
12-15-2014, 02:57 PM
The strategy is really dependent on your goal.

If the goal is Completionist then I recommend doing lives in an order that will help you make it through the process, such as playing classes you like the least upfront but allowing yourself to a reprieve now and again for a class that you like to play.

If the goal is a specific build type where specific PL abilities would help enhance your goal to look at doing the life that gives the biggest benefit to your end goal first.

If there really isn't a goal except to try out new builds, then simply pick a build and give it a try between 1 and 20 (or 28) and prepare for the next life build, such as gathering gear and other resources.

JPGR
12-15-2014, 03:09 PM
Hi - Bear in mind that if you ask a thousand people you will prolly get a thousand different pieces of advice....now that that is out of the way, I would do the following:
1 level your destinies. Destinies will provide you with much more abilities that will compliment whatever build you have.
2 consider epic reincarnating before you heroic TR - epic reincarnation past lives provide you with passive benefits that will make the heroic TR's you plan in the future that much easier.
3 if you havent yet, consider joining a reputable guild on your server. You will find many folks to help you by answering questions, sharing build ideas etc., and just having a regular group of people to run with.
4 The purpose of the game is to have fun -while I dont feel it wise for any person to intentionally gimp themselves, there is a balance between building the most optimal toon for whatever the purpose you have, and building a toon you like to play.
5 be patient with yourself - there is a lot to learn about the game, and that fro me anyway, was/ is part of the fun.

psykopeta
12-15-2014, 04:58 PM
I finally have my first toon ready to heroic TR. I know that there is a comprehensive guide on "how to" TR, but is there any such guide that covers the strategy of the process? Should I have a final toon type in mind to plan for this TR and future? Should I continue further into epic and epic TR?

FYI - my toon is a human 18 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 1 fighter that fell into the dex based trap, although seems to work fine for most heroic quests. +2 and +3 tomes for all abilities, but dexterity which has a +5. Currently using the Shiradi destiny path. Mostly a solo player (part of the reason for the rogue splash), but have run with a few PUGs. I have a nice variety of scimitars and bows (vorpal, disruption, banishing, smiting) to use based on the adventure.

I was thinking of TR into an elf ranger to take advantage of the dex, but I know that the damage support for dex is not there, so I'm not fully commited to that path. If I would have to pick a final class, I think I would want this toon to end as a ranger.

hey, there are more ways to get benefit of your dex tome, one example is qualifying for some feats thanks to that stat increase (example: you could start with 14 dex in a str based toon, put all level ups on str and at lvl 19 you would have 19 dex which qualifies for lots of feats)

imho you seem to be a bit lost about why and how tr'ing so i would avoid it meanwhile, of course while you get gear and learn a bit more, you will get experience, so think about leveling other destinies (at least so you can move to other spheres) before etr'ing

gonna tell you a secret: if you don't know why to tr, don't do it, it's better let's say, epic tring (which allows you tu reroll all your stats and feats, but not class levels chosen) than heroic tr'ing

the real benefit of heroic tr'ing is none now that we have epic tr and epic completionist (right now i have 32 heroic pl, 5 of which are iconic, also have 6 epic pl), in fact if you ask me, there's no real benefit of tr'ing, so don't do it til you are convinced of the benefits you will get, of course changing feats and stats isn't worth having to lvl from 1 to 20, imho

if you ask me why am i tr'ing, the reason is quite obvious, for the sake of hoarding, because even the completionist feat isn't great, at least til they give it as a slot free feat

that said, there're plenty dex based builds, in fact it's now more viable than before: shuricannon, ninja monk, acrobat,and prolly more that i don't recall right now

about the "support for dex" you shouldn't worry, u only will note the real difference once you start counting things like divine might, know the angles and power surge (which are, as you can see very restrictive) rest of stuff doesn't make that big difference, let's say rage or primal scream it's only a 2-5 to str that you won't get to your dex, so in the end there isn't that big difference going dex and str in most builds, til you start adding certaing splashes or build where the difference goes to 20 or more, but they aren't permanent buffs so it's not like you leave the guild ship with 90 str all the day

also, the guild suggestion is the best you can get, soloing a quest doesn't mean you can't chat(and learn about game) meanwhile

CPDK9
12-15-2014, 08:44 PM
Thanks for all the replies and very helpful information. I should have noted that I am a member of a 95 level guild. One of my concerns at epic level is not being a drag on a group. It seems like you can get away with poorly built toons at heroic level, but not epic. I currently have some of the higher level heroic quests that I can continue to finish off. I tried one solo stab at epic Small Problem with healing hire and did fine until end fight. Also I'm a premium member, not VIP. I do have access to most of the recommended adventure packs, including MotD.

For now, I think I will just plod along and continue improving gear.

CPDK9
12-16-2014, 02:21 PM
gonna tell you a secret: if you don't know why to tr, don't do it, it's better let's say, epic tring (which allows you tu reroll all your stats and feats, but not class levels chosen) than heroic tr'ing



That really spoke to my situation!

phillymiket
12-16-2014, 02:54 PM
Thanks for all the replies and very helpful information. I should have noted that I am a member of a 95 level guild. One of my concerns at epic level is not being a drag on a group. It seems like you can get away with poorly built toons at heroic level, but not epic. I currently have some of the higher level heroic quests that I can continue to finish off. I tried one solo stab at epic Small Problem with healing hire and did fine until end fight. Also I'm a premium member, not VIP. I do have access to most of the recommended adventure packs, including MotD.

For now, I think I will just plod along and continue improving gear.

Hey.

Good luck with it!

Yeah, keep playing and decide what you want to be before you jump in "just because".
Completionist is a long hard road and not such a game-breaker anymore, so unless you are sure, i wouldn't plan TRs with that in mind.
Otherwise, I see it like this. DDO is kind of a game of envelopes.
Players and mobs are supposed to fall within a certain envelope.
Past Lives can help push a facet of your play out of the envelop and make you super-effective there, but you can be achieve there in other ways without PLs. It just will cost you Feats/Twists etc.

So choose where you want to be super effective first then decide the best road to get there.

Heavy Armor type? Maybe start with Fighter PL for +1 to Tactics, begin to take your Stun beyond the mobs ability to defend well. Then maybe Pally for heal amp, using your new Fighter PLs to help.

DC caster? Wizard PL first makes sense for +1 DC right at the start, then maybe Sorc for pushing up your Evoc DC then back to Wiz which is now much easier with super-fire balls, then FVS which is much much easier with super-Blade Barriers, then back to Wiz which is now awesomely powerful to get up your Spell Pen.

Rogue would probably involve getting Arty lives early to help all further trapping based lives (for me).

etc etc. Make each life build on and help the next until you reach your desired build.

If you want just a general type build, look at Epic PLs maybe.

IMO they are a bit easier and faster to get (and you don't have to empty your bank)

They are nicely powerful and you can work on your Destiny while you get your ePLs unlike Heroic Pls.

psykopeta
12-16-2014, 02:55 PM
That really spoke to my situation!

if that's your situation, then, what about etr'ing (get colors of the queen, it can be active at same time with prism stance of shiradi, they stack, and u don't lose xp in your ED when etr'ing) to rebuild your toon?

but remember, if you are etr'ing to reroll in a new build/type of your toon, the best thing you can do is a plan of which feats, levelups and such you will get

i mean, you want to be stronger after the reroll, am i wrong? XDDD

also, if you check the build's forum part you will see some tips of what you would like to use with your toon (cooking something is much easier when you see recipes of different ways to cook it ^_^u)

and, ofc, you should be capable with most builds to solo epic norm, if not by brute forcing it, using a bit strategy instead

if your concern is about being gimp, don't worry, just play ranged and smart (so don't attack mobs who are at 100% hp, try helping whoever is running scared and such things that help getting the group together) of course your guildies prolly can bring you trhough most quests on epic hard, there's no shame on learning, i mean, haven't met a single player who has born being a pro with full game knowledge, that's why we use social relations

btw, if you meet some vet willing to give u a backpack ride , you may learn stuff from him/her

i mean, if you are in thelanis i would be happy of pushing your soul stone til the end of the quest, so you see how i play(not an awesome player, simply don't push my toon over its limit, which is the only reason of dying in ddo), seeing is faster than figuring, too

also, if your guildies don't mind, i would stick to epic norm for the sake of having fun, dying isn't always fun, sometimes it is, tho

but 1st thing i would do is master all quests on epic norm, then would try to move to epic hard on easiest quests for you

doing so you will: complete sagas (and get skill tomes, or xp), get enough stuff for your tr like comms and epic norm gear, and you will face different situations

one doesn't become stronger by swinging 100 times the axe, one becomes stronger facing 100 different situations

that said... have fun, and ask always before messing your toon, please!! we all screwed our toons at the beginning! don't fall in the same trap we did! oh wait, looks like you did it, but one time is enough to avoid it in the future :P

CPDK9
12-16-2014, 10:42 PM
So choose where you want to be super effective first then decide the best road to get there.



Part of my problem with the ranger is finding that balance between ranged and melee. I really like the ranged aspect, but know that DPS wise it has limited support.

CPDK9
12-16-2014, 11:04 PM
if that's your situation, then, what about etr'ing (get colors of the queen, it can be active at same time with prism stance of shiradi, they stack, and u don't lose xp in your ED when etr'ing) to rebuild your toon?


also, if you check the build's forum part you will see some tips of what you would like to use with your toon (cooking something is much easier when you see recipes of different ways to cook it ^_^u)

and, ofc, you should be capable with most builds to solo epic norm, if not by brute forcing it, using a bit strategy instead


i mean, if you are in thelanis i would be happy of pushing your soul stone til the end of the quest, so you see how i play(not an awesome player, simply don't push my toon over its limit, which is the only reason of dying in ddo), seeing is faster than figuring, too


Should have read the forums before I built the toon, but just jumped into the game. Then when the enhancement system came out, got mesmerized by the dex option and still ignored the forums. By the time I discovered the value of the forums, I had already used the heart. At least it turns out the build is a dex variation on the Tempest Trapmonkey, so epic TR makes sense. That will allow the correction back to strength based. Dex will help with AC since I'll be using light armor to take advantage of evasion. I do like the colors of the queen feat and plan on picking that up when I TR.

Now the question will be raider chest - Pinion, Celestia, or Belizarde..............leaning towards Pinion.

Final question for epic level - more important to have greensteel items (eventually thunderforged) than vorpal, disruption, etc.

Thanks for the offer to run, but I'm on Khyber.

Seikojin
12-17-2014, 12:37 AM
Build what you want to play at. If you want to play EE, think of what small details would increase your capabilities there. Gear, enhancement, and feat selection make huge differences.

My main is a twf scimi user. His final life will be heavy armor, pure fighter, twf. He won't be the end all, be all, but he will be fun to play when I want that crazy style. I had more fun making builds that stuck to his theme than making him fit to a build that was really good or soloable.

phillymiket
12-17-2014, 01:55 AM
Part of my problem with the ranger is finding that balance between ranged and melee. I really like the ranged aspect, but know that DPS wise it has limited support.

pish-posh

Range is great these days, and anyway, who cars if its TOPS DPS. If you like it, do it.

Ranger is fun because it does 12/6/2 level splits very, very well.

So you can get Ranger PLs with mostly pure or pure builds (good place to start with range damage bonus plus resist bonus each PL)

Then you can do 6 Ranger and 12 something else (fighter, pally, monk, bard, rogue) and get those different PLs without having to switch gear or play-style too much.

;-)

Gear is the thing for me.

I want to get my PLs without reinventing the wheel each life.

Ranger is good like that.

If you are going TR and do 6 Ranger splits for PLs, use a Character Planner so you make sure you can both fit and qualify for the Feats that will make you still be a good Ranger, even when Cleric or Bard or something unconventional as your "main" class. (like you prolly want Improved Precise Shot every life)

psykopeta
12-17-2014, 04:12 PM
Should have read the forums before I built the toon, but just jumped into the game. Then when the enhancement system came out, got mesmerized by the dex option and still ignored the forums. By the time I discovered the value of the forums, I had already used the heart. At least it turns out the build is a dex variation on the Tempest Trapmonkey, so epic TR makes sense. That will allow the correction back to strength based. Dex will help with AC since I'll be using light armor to take advantage of evasion. I do like the colors of the queen feat and plan on picking that up when I TR.

Now the question will be raider chest - Pinion, Celestia, or Belizarde..............leaning towards Pinion.

Final question for epic level - more important to have greensteel items (eventually thunderforged) than vorpal, disruption, etc.

Thanks for the offer to run, but I'm on Khyber.

pinion, always

when u aren't playing a caster, u "should" aim at having manyshot, if not as main source of damage as ranged toon, it's a "must" as backup when you are melee

str based is ok, greensteel is imho your target, displacement clickies and haste clickies are a greeeaaaat help
and have wider use than tf

also vorpal/disruption and such (not improved version) have limited use due to the recquirements for it to be lethal, in fact even named stuff in epic norm version, would be better than most (if not all) lootgen stuff, now

if you grind gear, my suggestion is aim to "most wide classes and non situational gear" so you get more benefit from it

so clickies or "gear than can be used by most classes" (for example my triple pos undead beater is a staff, so can be used with every class, at least w/o penalization lol)

EllisDee37
12-17-2014, 05:10 PM
My general rule of thumb is that with one* exception, I only TR in order to enjoy re-running heroic content. I don't TR just for past lives.

*I gave my cleric a wizard past life solely for the wizard past life feat.

FlameDiablo
12-18-2014, 08:05 PM
1- choose your target (decide if yu want completionist or a lot of PL), if not have fun in any way yu prefer, if yea go 2
2- calculate the time needed and decide if yu really want to invest that time, if no go back to 1, if yea go 3
3- plan 1-3 versatile builds than yu can use for any PL (example: 7art/4fgt/9any)
4- plan a TR path (guildes are useful)
5- farm and get all yu need for that (tomes, items, adventure packs...)
6- TR
7- each TR try to optimize the next one
8- extend your target

RD2play
12-18-2014, 08:28 PM
There used to be a "best order" out there, something like barb first because all your lives would benefit from the extra hp, pally next for the Hamp, monk for the +dmg, ... and do casters last since non of your melee lives will benefit from their PLs, where casters do benefit from melee PLs at least at the lower levels .

This was all before the new enhancements and arti&druid.

The thing is with multiclass and all the other options available even to pures you could play each live differently for fun, learning classes and different play styles. or you could run a couple similar styles and add enough lvls of the class you want the PL in, for instance I love my 6art/6rog/8whatever Hrepeater and rune arm guys for blasting heroics. although now with Harper there is no need to take both 6 of rog and arti....

It is all up to you to play how you enjoy the game. If you like running different styles (melee/ranged/caster) then look for what PL benefits who and plan your lives accordingly, or you try to run everything in a single style and learn to be creative with the Char-planner, or just run whatever you like and cross them off the list. then there is the question do you want to zerg-grind your lives quickly or have more in depth fun with each build each live, or a combination.

Plenty options I'dd say GL on you journey to MOAR POWER!!!

QuantumFX
12-20-2014, 12:36 AM
There used to be a "best order" out there, something like barb first because all your lives would benefit from the extra hp…

Barbarian was suggested as the first life choice because 2nd and 3rd life incarnations had ridiculous XP tables. Between the much more sane XP progression, a larger variety of quests and the enhancement revamp, you’re probably better off with “Do the classes that look like they will be the most tedious to play first.”

oldfatman
12-22-2014, 11:10 AM
Going competitionist is kind of like going to colledge. could take you years, and your major will probably change a few times (that end build you have in mind). You might even find yourself falling in love with something you never would have considered.