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View Full Version : Just some musing on the new Monster Champions



LittleLexi
12-11-2014, 03:56 PM
Okay so I ran a few dungeons to test this out, and I kind of like the concept. I was expecting that maybe we'd run into 1 or 2 of these per dungeon - not so.

There were more than 10 in short to medium length quests! And they certainly do pack a punch if you're not heavily geared. That is a problem. There still exists very many newer players or more casual players - though still those who may have TR'ed by now and have somewhat decent gear and attributes - who will certainly struggle now on Elite due to these monster champions. I think it's a bit ridiculous to expect them after all these years to just forego doing Elite until they fulfill these "uber min-max" builds just to be able to run content they once could. I doubt that was Turbine's intention anyway.

I would like Champions to remain in the game but with some tweaks:

-Make it so that there is only 1 that shows up on shorter quests. 1-2 on Medium length quests. 2-3 on Longer ones. And 3-5 on Very Long quests. This way they shouldn't hinder player's progress greatly. And encounters with them would feel more meaningful.

-Give them each even more unique abilities and buffs/debuffs. The possibilities are endless!

-Have them drop just 1 kind of item upon death(similar to how you find something in crates), and make it tie into whatever sort of champion they are. For example: A greatsword wielding Orc champion would drop some kind of greatsword. A sneaky rogue kobold champion might drop a dagger, or perhaps a light armor. A drow priest champion could drop a potion of wonder or something etc.

-Have them always provide some amount of guild renown when bested.

-Make them count as two for the purpose of Monster Manual tracking.

Some additional features that would make these Monster Champions feel more complete and worthwhile(even if it means more work) are listed below:

-Give the poor things names and some personality!

-Examining them mid fight with several other mobs next to them, and beating on you at the same time, to try figure out what special traits they have can prove a tad difficult. So I would suggest that, like us, if they're using a stenchy poison imbued weapon, that it displays that effect on the weapon. If they have death ward - adorn their armor or robes with a skull somewhere. Are they fire resistant? Well, make their armor orange in places, and so forth. That way we know just by looking at them, and it keeps everything in full flow.

-I think it would be rather cool also if - once we run into them - they blurt out a taunt, or growl, directed at us. Hearing that would ensure we know we're dealing with a tougher opponent, and it would make the encounter feel that much more exciting(they can still retain the crown icon).

-Introduce a new npc whose whole concept is basically a head-collector, as it were. He/she wants champions dead for whatever reason. Speaking to him/her, will pull up a list of champions and their likely domains. Every time a player kills a champion - they obtain 1 piece of evidence pertaining to that specific champion(all the more reason to give them names!). These bits of evidence can then be turned in for a bit of platinum, and various items such as experience elixirs, crafting boosts, potions of restoration, scrolls of raise dead, maybe even some new types of Augments and so on. Of course the greater the reward, the more pieces of evidence required. And to make it even more interesting - make it so that every week, a random set of Champs are high on the wanted list. Turn ins from these champions will yield even more platinum and better item rewards - possibly more named loot? *hint hint* Turbine ;)
This would give players a reason to not just run passed the various Champions, as well as running specific dungeons where said Champions lurk, for the purpose of obtaining evidence of their death.

That is all for now. But as I said before, I sort of like the idea behind these Champions. They could use a bit of immediate fine-tuning, and then some more long-term oriented changes.

The_Human_Cypher
12-11-2014, 11:02 PM
My guildies and I noticed that Monster Champion seem to spawn quite often when we were running Heroic Elite content today. However, those Elite quests are no longer a walk through as they were before due to the Monster Champions. We had to fight harder in those quests (Lordsmarch) than we have had to do in years.

DefunctEquation
12-11-2014, 11:41 PM
I find the Champions are a good addition. They do add challenge to the quests (at least on Heroic Elite, which is what I was playing), but I agree that there are a few too many. It's not too bad when they're spread out, but in groups they can cause problems.

A good thing certainly, keep them in. But maybe reduce the numbers a bit.

Any ideas what the drop rate for their chests is? I see they drop them.

FuzzyDuck81
12-12-2014, 04:33 AM
Any ideas what the drop rate for their chests is? I see they drop them.

100% chance, *if* the champion status is granted to a named monster.. possibly orange named mobs too but not certain, didn't get much chance to play yesterday since i was busy rebuilding a couple of toons. Basically its a "this tough thing is even tougher, here's a bonus reward".

Wanesa
12-12-2014, 04:51 AM
Okay so I ran a few dungeons to test this out, and I kind of like the concept. I was expecting that maybe we'd run into 1 or 2 of these per dungeon - not so.
-Make it so that there is only 1 that shows up on shorter quests. 1-2 on Medium length quests. 2-3 on Longer ones. And 3-5 on Very Long quests. This way they shouldn't hinder player's progress greatly. And encounters with them would feel more meaningful.

I can aslo see possible reduction, but not such much. My proposal is 10%-20%




-Give them each even more unique abilities and buffs/debuffs. The possibilities are endless!

/signed



-Have them drop just 1 kind of item upon death(similar to how you find something in crates), and make it tie into whatever sort of champion they are. For example: A greatsword wielding Orc champion would drop some kind of greatsword. A sneaky rogue kobold champion might drop a dagger, or perhaps a light armor. A drow priest champion could drop a potion of wonder or something etc.

/signed
I like the idea use the similar rules for breakables - there should be a chance that gold, gems and potions will drop and tiny chance, that a weapon, armor or other stuff will drop. Additionaly, in the very rare cases a DDO store item could drop. Just keep this simple as possible, no additional complexity.



-Have them always provide some amount of guild renown when bested.

/signed



-Make them count as two for the purpose of Monster Manual tracking.

/signed
I suggest extra deed for them.




-Give the poor things names and some personality!



not necessary

cru121
12-12-2014, 04:54 AM
-Have them drop just 1 kind of item upon death(similar to how you find something in crates), and make it tie into whatever sort of champion they are. For example: A greatsword wielding Orc champion would drop some kind of greatsword. A sneaky rogue kobold champion might drop a dagger, or perhaps a light armor. A drow priest champion could drop a potion of wonder or something etc.

What would an "Animated Mudball" champion drop?

EllisDee37
12-12-2014, 05:19 AM
I think it's a bit ridiculous to expect them after all these years to just forego doing Elite until they fulfill these "uber min-max" builds just to be able to run content they once could. I doubt that was Turbine's intention anyway.This sounds like hyperbole to me. I expect all my new player builds can handle heroic elite champions just fine, and none of them are anywhere close to "uber min-max."

As for epic elite, it is not ridiculous at all to expect the non-hardcores to forego epic elite.

Albinosaurus
12-12-2014, 05:33 AM
These things suck. Take them back out of the game. They are pointless, rewardless, and frustrating for no reason. Just get rid of this sh**.

DefunctEquation
12-12-2014, 09:12 AM
My guildies and I noticed that Monster Champion seem to spawn quite often when we were running Heroic Elite content today. However, those Elite quests are no longer a walk through as they were before due to the Monster Champions. We had to fight harder in those quests (Lordsmarch) than we have had to do in years.

I definitely agree with this.

It's nice to actually be challenged instead of being able to zerg through a quest on Heroic Elite with a character or group that is 3 levels below the quest level.

Cordovan
12-12-2014, 09:43 AM
We need to consolidate the large number of threads on Monster Champions. Please feel free to continue the discussion in a new Official Thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453023-Monster-Champion-Feedback) on the topic. Thanks!