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Celebras
11-24-2014, 05:20 AM
So my next life is a BF Arti. As i experienced earlier, mainly Repeater-style isnt really exciting i thought i give a melee built a try. Going pure Arti wasnt my goal so looking right now on some splashes.
Of course the Pala is a must, since im not going to spent points for a lesser heart. And for that, 2 lvl Pala minimum and (already in mind) Twisting in later Turn Undead for Divine Might. Now speaking of it, i was thinking of going maybe even 15/5 for the built, so that i can spent most APs mainly on Pala trees and having the opportunity to have T5s there, while on the other hand, have access to lvl 6 Arti spells. Not sure if in the case of 14/6 the T3 cores on Pala trees are worth loosing the lvl 6 Arti spells.
Of course i can always have a 3rd class in there, and then which class. I thought of going into Sorc/Wiz EK up to lvl 5 and spending most APs there with 2 lvls pala to spent the rest and of course in the BF tree.
Equipmentwise i mainly got lvl 20 to 25 stuff, but missing some betta 2h, mostly range or 1h, thats why i planned for SWF.
Open for any suggestions...

unbongwah
11-24-2014, 09:36 AM
Are you after an arty PL? Holy Sword is really nice, ofc - much better than what's in the BE tree - but that precludes going majority-arty, so if you want the PL, your options are more limited; there's little incentive going past pal 6 if you're not going for pal 14, IMHO.

Celebras
11-24-2014, 09:48 AM
Are you after an arty PL?

Yeah, PL Arti.
havent played Pala much since updates, but is it a big difference from before in Enhancements? Im not sure yet where to put APs in besides BF.
Thought also to splash Fighter in, maybe even go higher like lvl 8 to fully get Kensai tree enhancements, 2/3 lvl pala and rest in Arti.
Just wanna gather some more thoughts here...

unbongwah
11-24-2014, 10:05 AM
The biggest improvements to pallies in U23 are:

Holy Sword has been massively improved: "Any weapon you are wielding gains an additional +2 holy bonus to its enhancement value and +1[W]. The spell also gives a +1 Competence bonus to the threat range, and critical weapon multiplier of the weapon. Now adds +1(W)." Note in particular the +1 crit multiplier bonus, which are still pretty rare. The only other ones I can think of are Swashbuckling, Knife Specialization, and Staff Specialization; and those only work with specific weapons, while HS works with anything. An eSOS with HS+IC:Slash is now 13-20 x4 (11-20 w/Celestial Champion). This now makes HS arguably the single best DPS buff in DDO; the only drawback is you need at least 14 pal lvls to get it.
KotC was improved: it gained two Cleave atks which are actually more powerful than the feats (which frees a couple of feats, since you also no longer need Great Cleave to take Overwhelming Crit feat); there's a couple of Melee Power bonuses (Empowered Smite, capstone); and the core enhs now add extra light dmg to every atk.
Greater Sacred Defense bonuses no longer require a shield; they now require a shield OR med/hvy armor to be equipped. On a BF/WF, Adamantine Body meets this pre-req. So between Gtr Sacred bonuses and the improvements to PRR/MRR, it's a good time to be a heavy-armor wearer.
For S&B pallies & ftrs, the Vanguard PrE (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vanguard_enhancements)adds a lot of nice DPS and tactics-related perks.

Celebras
11-24-2014, 10:52 AM
The biggest improvements to pallies in U23 are:

Holy Sword has been massively improved: "Any weapon you are wielding gains an additional +2 holy bonus to its enhancement value and +1[W]. The spell also gives a +1 Competence bonus to the threat range, and critical weapon multiplier of the weapon. Now adds +1(W)." Note in particular the +1 crit multiplier bonus, which are still pretty rare. The only other ones I can think of are Swashbuckling, Knife Specialization, and Staff Specialization; and those only work with specific weapons, while HS works with anything. An eSOS with HS+IC:Slash is now 13-20 x4 (11-20 w/Celestial Champion). This now makes HS arguably the single best DPS buff in DDO; the only drawback is you need at least 14 pal lvls to get it.

Yeah, sadly, so this will outta reach in this case...

KotC was improved: it gained two Cleave atks which are actually more powerful than the feats (which frees a couple of feats, since you also no longer need Great Cleave to take Overwhelming Crit feat); there's a couple of Melee Power bonuses (Empowered Smite, capstone); and the core enhs now add extra light dmg to every atk.

One way to go is then taking at least 5 lvls or Pala and spending most APs in KotC and SacDef. Would take maybe 6 lvls then for 3rd core.

Greater Sacred Defense bonuses no longer require a shield; they now require a shield OR med/hvy armor to be equipped. On a BF/WF, Adamantine Body meets this pre-req. So between Gtr Sacred bonuses and the improvements to PRR/MRR, it's a good time to be a heavy-armor wearer.

Would in any way go with Adam Body, yep. Together with some Displacement clickies/wands and the arti classes u got some nice PRR/MRR while attacks miss u...

For S&B pallies & ftrs, the Vanguard PrE (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vanguard_enhancements)adds a lot of nice DPS and tactics-related perks.

Think i would rather go with SWF and runearm. While u can save some feats (SWF) you just get 15% Attack speed at the most (if ur not missing some cores) and the runearms can add some nice wep buffs on the other hand.

Grailhawk
11-24-2014, 12:05 PM
Have you thought of some kind of Juggernaut variation 16/2/2 type build? or maybe 16/3/1 Paly Fighter so you can get defender stance?

haulindonkey
11-24-2014, 12:16 PM
[SNIP]Think i would rather go with SWF and runearm. While u can save some feats (SWF) you just get 15% Attack speed at the most (if ur not missing some cores) and the runearms can add some nice wep buffs on the other hand.

I believe SWF with runearm requires at least 3 bard levels so you can take the tier 3 from the swashbuckler tree that allows use of a runearm while SWF (tier 4 to max out the runearm bonus while swashing). Taking any bard levels creates an alignment conflict which would then prevent the OP from taking pally levels. Either bard or pally levels, not both.

unbongwah
11-24-2014, 01:36 PM
I believe SWF with runearm requires at least 3 bard levels so you can take the tier 3 from the swashbuckler tree that allows use of a runearm while SWF (tier 4 to max out the runearm bonus while swashing).
No, SWF works natively with runearms or orbs in offhand.

Celebras
11-24-2014, 03:24 PM
Have you thought of some kind of Juggernaut variation 16/2/2 type build? or maybe 16/3/1 Paly Fighter so you can get defender stance?

Yeah, read briefly over it. Im missing some equipment for it to work as intended. My other thought was that BE or AT tree isnt really offering some Melee enhancements and that when i spent more in a melee tree the outcome would be more melee style than with just 2 or 3 lvls in a prime-melee class and therefore max or T2 or T3 therein.
The more i think about it a split of 14/6 is something im interested in. Still high enough in Arti to profit from extra feats, spells and betta wand/scroll/clickie/pot use and on the same hand the melee oriented trees in Pala class, Core 3 included. Any major drawbacks with that u can think of?

Grailhawk
11-24-2014, 03:48 PM
Yeah, read briefly over it. Im missing some equipment for it to work as intended. My other thought was that BE or AT tree isnt really offering some Melee enhancements and that when i spent more in a melee tree the outcome would be more melee style than with just 2 or 3 lvls in a prime-melee class and therefore max or T2 or T3 therein.
The more i think about it a split of 14/6 is something im interested in. Still high enough in Arti to profit from extra feats, spells and betta wand/scroll/clickie/pot use and on the same hand the melee oriented trees in Pala class, Core 3 included. Any major drawbacks with that u can think of?

I guess i just dont see the Paladin trees as that much better then the Arti trees, Paladins get there really good stuff either in high level core enh or from there spell list not there Tier 5's and Enh.

DPS trees I like are Kensei, Tempest, Thief, Assassin, and Swashbuckler (you cant take that once because of the 1st level as a Paladin) and I'll like Berserk and Ravager after the pass, the Defender trees is good as a defensive option.

IMO 15 Arti is worth it for Deadly Weapons, 2 Paladin to pick up Divine Grace, leaves only 3 levels from a good DPS tree which seams like not enough.

2 Paladin 5 from good DPS Tree class leaves us with 13 Arti So arti levels are kind of point less, 2 Paladin 8 Fighter 10 Arti maybe?

Celebras
11-24-2014, 04:36 PM
2 Paladin 8 Fighter 10 Arti maybe?

Thought of that figther splash too and as u said, going kensai in there.
The Pala trees with the new cleaves, Exalted smites, divine sacrifce r quick good to take there. BE has some damage to DWA and BS and attack boost but other than that the trees lack more melee bonuses.
With more figther levels i have more feats to invest in the normal cleaves of course.

Ok, fighter splash (well, almost main). Will think about it...

Celebras
11-25-2014, 09:05 AM
Ok, gave it some time to think about and i think ill go with the 14/6 Arti/Pala split.
The extra feats from fighter splash would be consumed by wep and Greater Wep focus and Cleave and Great Cleave, and of course Wep Spec to reach the T5 Keen edge. i would go heavy blade with it for drow kopesh, but would like to swap weps in between and therefore Kensai is quite onesided of course on one wep style. I would spread my APs between Ken, KotC, BF and StDef, which is a bit wide.
With just Pala i would miss out of course on damage/crit damage boost and keen edge. On the other hand I would invest APs mainly in KotC, SacDef and BF. I can reach T4 SacDef with that. Cleaves are free and do more damage than normal cleaves, Divine Sacrifice and Exalted smites give some nice attack buff for any melee wep u wield, together with Holy Retribution. And the lvl 6 Deity feat isnt bad also for BFs/WFs.

Any more insight maybe?

Cableman
11-25-2014, 02:35 PM
Ok, gave it some time to think about and i think ill go with the 14/6 Arti/Pala split.
The extra feats from fighter splash would be consumed by wep and Greater Wep focus and Cleave and Great Cleave, and of course Wep Spec to reach the T5 Keen edge. i would go heavy blade with it for drow kopesh, but would like to swap weps in between and therefore Kensai is quite onesided of course on one wep style. I would spread my APs between Ken, KotC, BF and StDef, which is a bit wide.
With just Pala i would miss out of course on damage/crit damage boost and keen edge. On the other hand I would invest APs mainly in KotC, SacDef and BF. I can reach T4 SacDef with that. Cleaves are free and do more damage than normal cleaves, Divine Sacrifice and Exalted smites give some nice attack buff for any melee wep u wield, together with Holy Retribution. And the lvl 6 Deity feat isnt bad also for BFs/WFs.

Any more insight maybe?

Currently playing a 15/3/2 Arti/Pali/Fighter, max int, heavy in harper tree, very EE capable.

Kamode_Corebasher
11-25-2014, 04:04 PM
Ok, gave it some time to think about and i think ill go with the 14/6 Arti/Pala split.
The extra feats from fighter splash would be consumed by wep and Greater Wep focus and Cleave and Great Cleave, and of course Wep Spec to reach the T5 Keen edge. i would go heavy blade with it for drow kopesh, but would like to swap weps in between and therefore Kensai is quite onesided of course on one wep style. I would spread my APs between Ken, KotC, BF and StDef, which is a bit wide.
With just Pala i would miss out of course on damage/crit damage boost and keen edge. On the other hand I would invest APs mainly in KotC, SacDef and BF. I can reach T4 SacDef with that. Cleaves are free and do more damage than normal cleaves, Divine Sacrifice and Exalted smites give some nice attack buff for any melee wep u wield, together with Holy Retribution. And the lvl 6 Deity feat isnt bad also for BFs/WFs.

Any more insight maybe?

Currently playing an 18/1/1 Arti/Cleric/Fighter (cleric due to sun-elf) Sword&Board w/ DwarvenAxe (INT to hit and dmg) CrowdController. Tier5 in Harper tree, and the BattleEngineer to tier4 Hand&aHalf Training. Just to lvl23 now and EH's have been easy-breasy...Hoping the CC holds up for EE.

Scrabbler
11-25-2014, 04:33 PM
So my next life is a BF Arti. As i experienced earlier, mainly Repeater-style isnt really exciting i thought i give a melee built a try. Going pure Arti wasnt my goal so looking right now on some splashes.
Hmm, it'd be preferable if you weren't BF and Arty at the same time, because then you could do Art16/Bard4, which is the really good way to be SWF Artificer. Both BF and Artificer provide Reconstruction effects, so using that race+class combo is fairly redundant.

Well, I suppose you're stuck with it for external reasons.

Celebras
11-26-2014, 06:25 AM
Currently playing an 18/1/1 Arti/Cleric/Fighter (cleric due to sun-elf) Sword&Board w/ DwarvenAxe (INT to hit and dmg) CrowdController. Tier5 in Harper tree, and the BattleEngineer to tier4 Hand&aHalf Training. Just to lvl23 now and EH's have been easy-breasy...Hoping the CC holds up for EE.


Hmm, it'd be preferable if you weren't BF and Arty at the same time, because then you could do Art16/Bard4, which is the really good way to be SWF Artificer. Both BF and Artificer provide Reconstruction effects, so using that race+class combo is fairly redundant.

Well, I suppose you're stuck with it for external reasons.

Guys, ur the best :) i knew why i should post stuff like this in here. Of course id be able to swap my incarnation order and take other iconic instead of BF!! Was just so stucked on my order that i totally forgot about that.
So its also Morninglord! Thats gives a total different approach...

btw Kamode, CC? Missing Harper tree atm...

niehues
11-26-2014, 06:39 AM
I have a 16 arti 2fighter 2pally int based using the harper tree and its a lot of fun.. even picked up evo feat to use the tactical detonation.. its works great on EH.. and sort of ok on EE (still need gear)

with 16 pally i can get deadly and and tactical detonation.. Hit tactical detonation.. put all the mobs prone and just kick their a$$es ...

also went single weap fighting with rune arm.. spent the enhancement points into harper BF and the battle engeenier...

oh Im using bastard swords.. but u could also use dwarven axes.. depending on taste..


its a fun build.. i did it to leave it at epics and play with guildies..

let me know if u like the concept i could try reproduce it on the planner.. as i didnt use planner on the first time..

Kamode_Corebasher
12-03-2014, 12:20 PM
Guys, ur the best :) i knew why i should post stuff like this in here. Of course id be able to swap my incarnation order and take other iconic instead of BF!! Was just so stucked on my order that i totally forgot about that.
So its also Morninglord! Thats gives a total different approach...

btw Kamode, CC? Missing Harper tree atm...

Sorry for the late reply...
--Tactical Detonation and Prismatic Strike. And if wanting to twist in, Draconics "Daunting Roar".
----I've just reached lvl27 and 2-man'd eh orchard in an off destiny and my CC was not 100% but very good. I had no evocation DC item other than the yellow augment, so once I slot a V or VI item, it should be even better. I'll be testing EE's once I reach 28 and switch back into a strong INT destiny and have fate points to twist.

adrian69
01-09-2015, 07:03 PM
So my next life is a BF Arti. As i experienced earlier, mainly Repeater-style isnt really exciting i thought i give a melee built a try. Going pure Arti wasnt my goal so looking right now on some splashes.
Of course the Pala is a must, since im not going to spent points for a lesser heart. And for that, 2 lvl Pala minimum and (already in mind) Twisting in later Turn Undead for Divine Might. Now speaking of it, i was thinking of going maybe even 15/5 for the built, so that i can spent most APs mainly on Pala trees and having the opportunity to have T5s there, while on the other hand, have access to lvl 6 Arti spells. Not sure if in the case of 14/6 the T3 cores on Pala trees are worth loosing the lvl 6 Arti spells.
Of course i can always have a 3rd class in there, and then which class. I thought of going into Sorc/Wiz EK up to lvl 5 and spending most APs there with 2 lvls pala to spent the rest and of course in the BF tree.
Equipmentwise i mainly got lvl 20 to 25 stuff, but missing some betta 2h, mostly range or 1h, thats why i planned for SWF.
Open for any suggestions...

I am running a SWF/Rune Arm Arty atm that is just a beast. I found that Daxes work better. I am running 15 arty 3 pally 2 monk, but doubt the 2 monk are really needed with heavy armor. In fact, I've had quite a few people ask me to post my build over the last 2 days and will do when I get a few

Bart_D
01-27-2015, 04:24 AM
So my next life is a BF Arti.I'm on the same page and also want to try SWF which will work with runearm. Before coming here I was thinking of an adamantine-bodied BF with a base like Pal6/Arty8 and either Ftr6, Wiz6, or Sorc6 added.

Ftr6 will basically give feats and kensei enhancements (haste is good!)

Wiz will also give feats (say, quicken and extend), Eldritch Knight (possibly all the way to Tenser/Tempest), and haste/displacement spells

Sorc will give no feats but a little more sp and better enhancements for Energy Burst; only one of Haste/Displacement.

I think those are all good options, but I think either wizard or sorc will be more interesting; INT or CHA/2 to attack and damage, either from spells, harper enhancements or divine might.

QUESTIONS

- What is the attraction of more artificer levels (above, 15 is mentioned) please educate me, I know little about artificers.

- What SWF weapons are good for level 15 and up? (I have played caster, bow, thf, wraps but never swf) is it time to make a lit2 khopesh or is something else better?

Bart_D
01-27-2015, 04:45 AM
Actually... Arti16/Pal3/Wiz1 seems like a good mix. Adamantine Body and Int-focus, Energy Burst goodness in epics. Sounds good to me...