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minimomo
11-23-2014, 06:39 PM
i don't know why this is never used. if it didn't existed i would so suggest public groups right now but it already exists and nobody use it.

hmm... what about this:

all groups and even people soloing without hireling should automatically create a lfm say up until level 8 and those lfms should be irrevocable.

additionally and just to bend minds around: and whenever someone try to solo an instance some other people are already running they should automatically join their group within a time limit. if adventure was active more than 5mins the soloer will solo. if less than that he will join other party. so no exp penalty.

maybe the time limit must be less cause i suspect this will create sneaky pikers... those bastards!!! 3mins maybe? lfms also will disappear after 3mins?

that would create a newbie friendly game too. in theory.

Impaqt
11-23-2014, 10:33 PM
i don't know why this is never used. if it didn't existed i would so suggest public groups right now but it already exists and nobody use it.

hmm... what about this:

all groups and even people soloing without hireling should automatically create a lfm say up until level 8 and those lfms should be irrevocable.

additionally and just to bend minds around: and whenever someone try to solo an instance some other people are already running they should automatically join their group within a time limit. if adventure was active more than 5mins the soloer will solo. if less than that he will join other party. so no exp penalty.

maybe the time limit must be less cause i suspect this will create sneaky pikers... those bastards!!! 3mins maybe? lfms also will disappear after 3mins?

that would create a newbie friendly game too. in theory.

o.O

you think a newbie getting thrown into a group with a 40th+ life zerging vet would be a good thing?

minimomo
11-24-2014, 02:41 AM
o.O

you think a newbie getting thrown into a group with a 40th+ life zerging vet would be a good thing?

sure. he would zerg, newbie if nothing else would follow, adventures ends quickly, giving newbie easy exp and loot.

more levels and ap and loot a newbie has, stronger that newbie is.

if leveling is easy like that for a newbie up until 8, he would learn from his mistakes, and create another character and level that character as easily as first one.

Wanesa
11-24-2014, 02:54 AM
i don't know why this is never used. if it didn't existed i would so suggest public groups right now but it already exists and nobody use it.



While you entering to the dungeon, click on Public icon. If there is another public LFM group of the same dungeon and difficult recently created (before 5 minutes or less), it will automatically join you into that group.

I often running public elite LFMs. There is only one problem - some (most of the) quests are not worth to join by other ppl, so i am still soloing through it till end.

There is only small issue with automatic level range selection. After entering to the elite with public LFM turned on, I have to adjust level range to max +2 above quest level (it is often +3) to not allow to join ppls with higher level causing elite streak bonus deactivation.

MonadRebelion
11-24-2014, 03:44 AM
i don't know why this is never used. if it didn't existed i would so suggest public groups right now but it already exists and nobody use it.

hmm... what about this:

all groups and even people soloing without hireling should automatically create a lfm say up until level 8 and those lfms should be irrevocable.

additionally and just to bend minds around: and whenever someone try to solo an instance some other people are already running they should automatically join their group within a time limit. if adventure was active more than 5mins the soloer will solo. if less than that he will join other party. so no exp penalty.

maybe the time limit must be less cause i suspect this will create sneaky pikers... those bastards!!! 3mins maybe? lfms also will disappear after 3mins?

that would create a newbie friendly game too. in theory.

I suspect this would have an effect opposite the one you want. Throwing people that don't want to have anything to do with each other into a group is like a cruel joke. The fact that people have the option to learn and experiment with quests at their own pace strikes me as obviously desirable.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 04:11 AM
While you entering to the dungeon, click on Public icon. If there is another public LFM group of the same dungeon and difficult recently created (before 5 minutes or less), it will automatically join you into that group.

I often running public elite LFMs. There is only one problem - some (most of the) quests are not worth to join by other ppl, so i am still soloing through it till end.

There is only small issue with automatic level range selection. After entering to the elite with public LFM turned on, I have to adjust level range to max +2 above quest level (it is often +3) to not allow to join ppls with higher level causing elite streak bonus deactivation.

quests are not worth to join, you say, because you are an experienced player. you kill things very fast, you have op stuff in tr bank. what i suggested mostly for newbies. i am imagining hitting 8 becomes much more faster this way and instead of reading ddowiki for every single feat description, looking quest maps etc. etc. 68 times more etc. people learn things just by playing. trial and error. this should also help people whose native language is not english.

and that +2 instead of +3 thing should not be too hard to fix.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 04:23 AM
I suspect this would have an effect opposite the one you want. Throwing people that don't want to have anything to do with each other into a group is like a cruel joke. The fact that people have the option to learn and experiment with quests at their own pace strikes me as obviously desirable.

if you noticed my suggestion made of two parts. second part is extra stuff, soloer auto-joining existing parties in progress. there might be a confirmation dialog or something: there's already a party in progress do you want to join them? yes/no. choose no then start your own instance (which will post an irrevocable lfm which will expire in 3mins)

Wanesa
11-24-2014, 05:03 AM
quests are not worth to join, you say, because you are an experienced player

This is good joke. I am not experienced player and also i am not running min max builds. Just look to my signature, now Shewind is FvS with harper tree. Wierd combination isn't it? :) Really neither DPS , nor caster, nor healer but some options are still source of fun :)

Anyway, how are you able to see who is experienced player just by looking to the LFM panel.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 05:34 AM
This is good joke. I am not experienced player and also i am not running min max builds. Just look to my signature, now Shewind is FvS with harper tree. Wierd combination isn't it? :) Really neither DPS , nor caster, nor healer but some options are still source of fun :)

Anyway, how are you able to see who is experienced player just by looking to the LFM panel.

new player downloads client, starts ddo. not familiar with dnd rules at all.

hard elite normal? (actually only normal open to him! run it 3 times! torture!) 1d6? dagger or handwraps? let's try dagger. booo skelly won't die. let's take this feat called power critical! sounds awesome. boo it sucks. step here? BOOM! dies. so many things to learn, skills, feats, weapons, monsters and their strengths and weaknesses, maps, so many things... IN A DESERTED SERVER. especially if you are not from america. all alone. 1 darn korthos adventures takes 15mins while it could be finished in 3-4mins in a group. oh, why these people not stepping on that pressure plate? i better dodge that too.

newbie looks around in korthos. no one play this game? this game dead? should i uninstall? hmmm... newbie looks at the group window, oh a lot of parties to join! nice! (in korthos show only korthos lfm something they should definitely implement)

i see you joined in 2012. assumed you shoulda learn this game by now. i was wrong? still a newbie? and i never said you can see who is experienced just by looking at lfm panel. actually, that's not a bad idea too, just add that tr icon next to names in lfm window. you know those wing like symbols. so you know that dude knows what he is doing and not a total newbie.

Neomarica
11-24-2014, 05:36 AM
i don't know why this is never used. if it didn't existed i would so suggest public groups right now but it already exists and nobody use it.

hmm... what about this:

all groups and even people soloing without hireling should automatically create a lfm say up until level 8 and those lfms should be irrevocable.

additionally and just to bend minds around: and whenever someone try to solo an instance some other people are already running they should automatically join their group within a time limit. if adventure was active more than 5mins the soloer will solo. if less than that he will join other party. so no exp penalty.

maybe the time limit must be less cause i suspect this will create sneaky pikers... those bastards!!! 3mins maybe? lfms also will disappear after 3mins?

that would create a newbie friendly game too. in theory.

Oh, HE- uh, heck no. It wouldn't actually make the game any more newbie friendly(since they would be forced to group with zergers, elitists and other non-newbie friendly people, resulting in them having worse experience). And it would make it trivially easy to grief people, since the best anyone can do is add others to ignore list and be careful not to group with them - the latter of which would be impossible under your suggestion. And what about under/over leveled people who join and make the quest harder for everyone or kill XP?

And that's without even getting into the main problem: Some people WANT to solo at least some of the game. And there's also people who prefer to run with their established guild buddies or real life friends without being bothered by random a**holes. Are you just going to tell those people to leave the game and never come back? I sure would! I prefer grouping but when I, say, try to learn a new quest I haven't done before, it's usually much easier - not to mention more enjoyable! - to do solo than in a group that would rather just run ahead and get the treasure and XP. Just a few days ago I ran Study in Sable for the first time, and I had a blast! It wouldn't have been NEARLY as enjoyable to do with other people, even if those people were patient and willing to teach me/let me take my time.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 05:48 AM
Oh, HE- uh, heck no. It wouldn't actually make the game any more newbie friendly(since they would be forced to group with zergers, elitists and other non-newbie friendly people, resulting in them having worse experience). And it would make it trivially easy to grief people, since the best anyone can do is add others to ignore list and be careful not to group with them - the latter of which would be impossible under your suggestion. And what about under/over leveled people who join and make the quest harder for everyone or kill XP?

And that's without even getting into the main problem: Some people WANT to solo at least some of the game. And there's also people who prefer to run with their established guild buddies or real life friends without being bothered by random a**holes. Are you just going to tell those people to leave the game and never come back? I sure would! I prefer grouping but when I, say, try to learn a new quest I haven't done before, it's usually much easier - not to mention more enjoyable! - to do solo than in a group that would rather just run ahead and get the treasure and XP. Just a few days ago I ran Study in Sable for the first time, and I had a blast! It wouldn't have been NEARLY as enjoyable to do with other people, even if those people were patient and willing to teach me/let me take my time.

ok. this is becoming one of those threads where people want to outsmart original poster so they are always against.

1. i already said what can be done about people who WANT to solo. read above.
2. this is only up to level 8. i can agree to level 5 even. nothing set in stone. there's not a single raid until then. if you have a guild, if you have friends in that guild, that means you are not a newbie anymore. you wanna run korthos/harbor/marketplace with guildies? come on now.
3. if someone tell me leave the game and never come back, i would ignore them, leave the party and think man, what a jerk but not leave the game. everybody knows mmos full of smartasses, jerks and raging teenagers hating everyone because of their pimples.

Impaqt
11-24-2014, 09:04 AM
ok. this is becoming one of those threads where people want to outsmart original poster so they are always against.

1. i already said what can be done about people who WANT to solo. read above.
2. this is only up to level 8. i can agree to level 5 even. nothing set in stone. there's not a single raid until then. if you have a guild, if you have friends in that guild, that means you are not a newbie anymore. you wanna run korthos/harbor/marketplace with guildies? come on now.
3. if someone tell me leave the game and never come back, i would ignore them, leave the party and think man, what a jerk but not leave the game. everybody knows mmos full of smartasses, jerks and raging teenagers hating everyone because of their pimples.

1: I saw something to the effect of them being able to refuse to join and existing group... but then they got an LFM put up anyway. No Bueno.

no good comes from brand new players being forced into groups with vets who dont want them. the vets will at best, ignore them and complete quests before the new player can even get to the quest. at worst? use your imagination....

If they do want them, they can already put up an LFM.


People are always opposed to this idea because it doesnt actually solve any issues and creates new problems at the same time. Nothing in your proposal cannot already be done within the existing system. If you CHOOSE to use it.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 10:25 AM
1: I saw something to the effect of them being able to refuse to join and existing group... but then they got an LFM put up anyway. No Bueno.

no good comes from brand new players being forced into groups with vets who dont want them. the vets will at best, ignore them and complete quests before the new player can even get to the quest. at worst? use your imagination....

If they do want them, they can already put up an LFM.


People are always opposed to this idea because it doesnt actually solve any issues and creates new problems at the same time. Nothing in your proposal cannot already be done within the existing system. If you CHOOSE to use it.

why should a veteran reject joining an ongoing adventure, given there's 3 mins limit? he want to zerg, some people already killed bunch of monsters, so it's just better for him. why should a newbie reject joining an ongoing low level adventure? remember. never forget. this is only up to level 8 or 5 or whatever. especially when this way he can skip normal and hard mode torture?

that newbie still wanna solo and study the map and learn on his own? then he starts a normal or hard run. vets won't join that anyway. and if another newbie joins then they can be friends and learn together? too utopic? lol.

there's always a way to make things work. if you choose to look that way. there are games using this system. it is not my invention. i don't get you people. and again, tr symbol next to nickname on the lfm list would help too.

oh and about me choosing to create public parties, that won't be enough. that will be just me. it won't create lots of lfms. it won't be the same. i will hit lv5 in a day then who will make more lfms for newbies for two/three weeks before i tr again? i am trying to make this game look active. you know when you start a game, some of them makes you feel bah, dead game, no one around? i think newbies feel that way. 3 little mini adventures scattered around a little hub/village, killing rats first in normal then hard then in elite mode? newbie experience should be fast paced. that's how you hook people. not by torturing them norm/hard/elite in complete isolation.

Galeria
11-24-2014, 10:36 AM
Force all players to join me, because I like to group.

Similar things have been asked for and not done, because they make for a very poor play experience for all involved.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 10:48 AM
Force all players to join me, because I like to group.

Similar things have been asked for and not done, because they make for a very poor play experience for all involved.

i don't even want it for myself. see, i have joined this in 2010 and this is my second account, you forum people with your endless flaming make me go mad and that account forum banned, lol.

i keep saying this is mostly for newbies. i keep saying only until level 8 or 5 or whatever. but you random people should just pop up and say something like "force all players to join me"...

gah. i give up. you know it all better. terrible suggestion indeed.

Krelar
11-24-2014, 10:55 AM
. why should a newbie reject joining an ongoing low level adventure? remember. never forget. this is only up to level 8 or 5 or whatever. especially when this way he can skip normal and hard mode torture?


Without knowing what's going on in the quest joining late can be a recipe for disaster. If all they want is xp and just step into the quest and pike no problem. If the people already there have been invis running past stuff and the newbie doesn't know it they will jump in and promptly die at the first wave of mobs. Worse they may manage to trigger red alert and get the entire party killed.

Also I think you underestimate how big a difference 3 minutes can make. I put up an xp farming run last night and 4 of the people didn't make it into the quest until 2 minutes after I started. They didn't catch up until the end boss was almost dead. Some people find running through an empty dungeon rather boring, I suspect new people would be some of the ones most likely to not just be interested in .



there's always a way to make things work. if you choose to look that way. there are games using this system. it is not my invention. i don't get you people. and again, tr symbol next to nickname on the lfm list would help too.


Trying to force people to group with those they are not interested in grouping with will never work.

The only thing a TR symbol in the lfm would do is encourage a small number of extreme elitists to ignore any groups that didn't have that symbol. For the majority of players I doubt it would make any difference at all.



oh and about me choosing to create public parties, that won't be enough. that will be just me. it won't create lots of lfms. it won't be the same. i will hit lv5 in a day then who will make more lfms for newbies for two/three weeks before i tr again? i am trying to make this game look active. you know when you start a game, some of them makes you feel bah, dead game, no one around? i think newbies feel that way. 3 little mini adventures scattered around a little hub/village, killing rats first in normal then hard then in elite mode? newbie experience should be fast paced. that's how you hook people. not by torturing them norm/hard/elite in complete isolation.

Making the game "look active" doesn't work if no one is enjoying the actual experience. The best thing is for people that are willing to put up groups and people that are not to avoid them so they don't destroy the game experience for others.

They don't have to run normal/hard/elite. They can always just run normal and then continue on, joining groups for higher difficulties when they happen to find one. Sure it's not optimal but not much that a new person does is yet.

minimomo
11-24-2014, 06:40 PM
invis running prey of hunter? invis running... missing? invis running that quest where you destroy ships? then yeah. but i trillion times said this is only up to level 8 or 5... invis running harbor or korthos or marketplace? really? the only quest till level 8 i use invis is probably 'a small problem'... but let us say you are a genius who use invisibility like a pro. can not type or say:'hey there. i was invis running. please dont attack any monsters' ?

i cant imagine any quest under level 9 and i am dying because of red alert. let alone entire party getting killed! lol. what kind of weak veterans you guys are?

and if they can't make it in time then they can't. just like any other time when you are soloing a high level adventure and someone joins and you say 'hey. i am done with the quest. will run x quest next if interested.' that we call communication.

--------------

it just will. everyone just have to accept the fact that until lv8 all parties are public. go quit the game if you want. lol... yeah some selfish nolife antisocials will object but after a while it wont feel like forced parties. it will feel like helping the newcomer therefore helping the game grow.

----

but really. i can not just answer everyone post here solely motivated to outsmart me. just because i said 'look active' you take it literally and make an argument out of that? lol. ridiculous.

and this is my last post here in this thread. no matter what.

Neomarica
11-25-2014, 03:52 AM
ok. this is becoming one of those threads where people want to outsmart original poster so they are always against.

1. i already said what can be done about people who WANT to solo. read above.
2. this is only up to level 8. i can agree to level 5 even. nothing set in stone. there's not a single raid until then. if you have a guild, if you have friends in that guild, that means you are not a newbie anymore. you wanna run korthos/harbor/marketplace with guildies? come on now.
3. if someone tell me leave the game and never come back, i would ignore them, leave the party and think man, what a jerk but not leave the game. everybody knows mmos full of smartasses, jerks and raging teenagers hating everyone because of their pimples.

No, this is one of those threads where the original poster posts a horrible, horrible idea, so everyone disagrees with him.

TrinityTurtle
11-25-2014, 11:00 AM
Just no. When I solo, it's because I want some time to myself to do my own thing and not have to deal with anything but what is going on in my own head and have some time to veg out by myself. No one but me has the right to determine for me if I feel like grouping or not. I know where the lfm panel is.

I post all welcome groups, and take the first five that hit (if anyone does, I do some obscure quests no one likes for favor), and go. And I try to take care of everyone in there, and make sure everyone has a good time in the group when I do so. This is not always my mood.

If turbine did something like forced grouping on us, as much as I love this game and have a good time here, I''ll be in the first wave out the door. No one but me owns my time in a game. And no one has the right to force their presence on me either. THat is why this idea is a bad one in my opinion.

Ralmeth
11-26-2014, 11:19 AM
No, thank you. I don't think it's a good idea to force people to group with people they don't want to group with. What if you want to play just with your friends and/or family? What if you want to solo? What if you want to play perma-death? Etc? Also, when I first started playing DDO (shortly after it started) I absolutely hated getting into a group of zergers when I wanted to take my time, look around and go at a slower pace. With your idea, this could be a real turn-off to new players being forced to group with seasoned vets running as fast as they can through quests they've run way too many times already.

General_Gronker
12-02-2014, 07:31 AM
terrible suggestion indeed.
Yes, it was. Glad you finally recognized that.

salmag
12-08-2014, 10:05 AM
When I solo, I almost always put up LFMs. Then, I take my time doing all the optionals, etc. until someone joins. If that person wants to go fast, I will pick up the pace. Anyone is free to join, not forced. Newbies are always welcome.

The only time I don't put up an LFM is if I am doing a quest under my level that would break someone else's Bravery Bonus.

Noone should be forced to group with others. Especially in a PUG.

Albinosaurus
12-11-2014, 07:24 AM
This is a terrible suggestion. Just to put it into perspective, how about I tie a handful of infants to the same parachute I use to drop you into an Iraqi hot zone and expect you to defend them all--let alone yourself--and give you no choice in the matter and no proper equipment to accomplish your goal?

Bad things all around. Just like this idea.

Daine
12-12-2014, 03:36 PM
This is a terrible suggestion. Just to put it into perspective, how about I tie a handful of infants to the same parachute I use to drop you into an Iraqi hot zone and expect you to defend them all--let alone yourself--and give you no choice in the matter and no proper equipment to accomplish your goal?

Bad things all around. Just like this idea.


A classic straw-man argument.

In a proper analogy, the babies you tie to the parachute have all made the conscious decision that they want to be killers, have at least one piece of basic weaponry and body armour (or rusted on diapers) and have worked themselves up to the point that they want to jump. Sure, those babies may have thought they were jumping into something simple like a small Cartel drug war rather than a Iraqi hot-zone, but when babies decide to kill they should also be ready to die. As for the original solo zerger, no one expects a soldier, armed to the teeth, entering a war zone to be a baby sitter!

Oh and to appease the more politically correct, no one is actually suggesting you 'tie' infants to a parachute. You rig them to deploy strategically before landing!

Albinosaurus
12-12-2014, 03:43 PM
A classic straw-man argument.

In a proper analogy, the babies you tie to the parachute have all made the conscious decision that they want to be killers, have at least one piece of basic weaponry and body armour (or rusted on diapers) and have worked themselves up to the point that they want to jump. Sure, those babies may have thought they were jumping into something simple like a small Cartel drug war rather than a Iraqi hot-zone, but when babies decide to kill they should also be ready to die. As for the original solo zerger, no one expects a soldier, armed to the teeth, entering a war zone to be a baby sitter!

Oh and to appease the more politically correct, no one is actually suggesting you 'tie' infants to a parachute. You rig them to deploy strategically before landing!

No. My analogy was correct, because most of the players I find while open LFM is up are less useful than a pack of infants. Forcing people who have worked out an effective, efficient way to clear content for their Completionist grind to have to baby-sit newborns who will cost them exp, ruin quest objectives, and train hordes of mobs to them is NOT a good idea. It's a terrible idea, no matter how you try to twist the words around.