PDA

View Full Version : Basic wizard for new players



Hobgoblin
11-09-2014, 04:23 PM
Basic Wizard
A wizard gets okay dps, good survivability, good self-healing.
They have low defense and hp okay saves


For a more advanced version that takes a lot more work look at
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide
Race – you have a few choices –
For a newer player that doesn’t want absolute difficulty checks any race will work
However – for max dc’s without going p2p/favor unlock, human is best
Elf works for better spell pen
If you are willing to buy/favor grind drow is better You lose one feat but get 1/2 dc’s depending on gear
sun elf is the best but it requires not only buying sun elf but a +1 heart

Human Wizard

Stats
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 8
Constitution: 15
Wisdom: 8
Intelligence: 18
Charisma: 8

Final breakdown with reasonable gear
Con: 16 +8 item +2 guild +2 rage spell +4 lich= 32
Int: 18 + 8 item +7 levels +2 guild +5 enhancments +2 capstone + 4 lich = 46 easy to hit can get more 49 if drow

Reason behind stats
You need two stats: int for spell points/skills/dc’s and Constitution for more hp

Increase int at every 4 levels

Saves

Fortitude: 6 base + 11 con mod +6 item + 4 great heroism spell= 27
Reflex: 6 base + 14 int mod + 6 item + 4 gh = 30
Will: 12 base +-1 wis +6 item +4 gh = 21

Hit points
112 from wiz +25 from heroic durability +308 con mod +30 false life +31 toughness + 45 enhancement = 551 can go much higher with epic destinies/gear

Feats

Level 1 feats (level 1 spells)
maximize – more damage on spell like abilities
Insightful reflexes – uses int for your reflex save
wiz bonus – mental toughness – adds extra crits and more spell points

Level 3 feats (level 2 spells)
Spell focus: spell penetration – not used much in low levels very important for vale and later

Level 5 feats (level 3 spells)
Spell focus: necromancy – better chance for your spells to land

Level 6 feats
empower – see maximize

Level 7 feats (level 4 spells)
n/a

Level 8 feats
n/a

Level 9 feats (level 5 spells)
Heighten – makes your spells harder to resist

Level 10 feats
Quicken

Level 11 feats(level 6 spells)
n/a

Level 12 feats
Toughness – more hp is good

Level 13 feats (level 7 spells
n/a

Level 14 feats
n/a

Level 15 feats (level 8 spells)
Wiz bonus: spell focus enchant – see spell focus
Greater spell pen – for vale and beyond

Level 16 feats
n/a

Level 17 feats (level 9 spells)
n/a

Level 18 feats
Greater spell focus necro

Level 19 feats
n/a

Level 20 feats
Either improved mental toughness or enlarge for long range fingers or extend for longer buffs/aura

Level 21 feats
Epic spell focus: necro

Level 22 feats
n/a

Level 23 feats
n/a

Level 24 feats
Improved mental toughness or epic mental toughness or epic spell pen -

Level 25 feats
n/a

Level 26 feats
Epic spell power if you have epic destinies
Toughness if you don’t have ed’s

Level 27 feats
Ruin – big numbers

Level 28 feats
Hell Ball – more big numbers!

Enhancments
3 human
1-Sp boost
2 – Int
41 pale master
6 cores
11 tier 1
6- deathless vigor
2 – spell crit necro
3 – neg energy conduit
9 tier 2
4 efficent metamagic – maximize
2 – spell crit necro
3 – bone armor
7 tier 3
2 – spell crit necro
2 – int
3 – cloak of night
4 tier 4
2 – spell crit necro
2 – int
4 tier 5
2 – necromanctic focus
2 – improved shrouding
26 archmage
4 cores – all necro slas

6 tier 1
2 spell crit elemental
4 energy of the scholar
4 tier 2
2 spell crit elemental
2 improved empower
8 tier 3
2 spell crit elemental
4 spell pen
2 int
4 Tier 4
2 int
2 spell focus
10 eldritch knight
1 core
6 tier 1
3-Improved mage armor
3 toughness
3 tier 2
3 improved shield

Some notes on spells –
You can change them at will (at shrines)
This is not an exhaustive list but some good spells to have at each level

Level 1:
Hypnotize, jump, magic missle
Level 2: knock, resist energy, web, blur
Level 3: haste, rage, displacement
Level 4: firewall, phantasmal killer, negative energy burst, acid rain, dimension door, death aura
Level 5: Niacs, eldars, cone of cold, teleport
Level 6: circle of death, greater heroism, necrotic ray
Level 7: Finger of death, banishment, otto’s sphere of dancing, prismiatic spray
Level 8: power word: stun, polar ray, otto’s irresistible dance
Level 9: wail of the banshee, hold monster:mass, energy drain

finally:
skills
concentration - 23 ranks
heal - 11 ranks
umd -11 ranks
balance -11 ranks
diplo - 11
bluff - 11 ranks
spellcraft 23 ranks
other skills to taste

main thing umd does is let you raise

Torkzed
11-09-2014, 06:42 PM
Human Wizard

Stats
Strength: 8
Dexterity: 8
Constitution: 16
Wisdom: 8
Intelligence: 10
Charisma: 18



Typo in the int and charisma stats? I assume you mean 18 Int and 10 charisma for a wizard.

Hobgoblin
11-09-2014, 06:59 PM
Typo in the int and charisma stats? I assume you mean 18 Int and 10 charisma for a wizard.

ya fixed

cnp from my sorc guide lol

hob

Jingwei
11-10-2014, 12:39 AM
You missed a few things:

When leveling up, refer to the Rare Arcane Scroll List (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Rare_Arcane_Scroll_List)
When you are offered spells to pick when leveling up, always pick spells from the rare list. Otherwise you'll have to track scrolls of them down later.

Once you get to lvl 9 teleport to the portable hole and buy and scribe all the scrolls. This should help make sure that you are only picking 'rare' spells when leveling up.

Spells to have:
Lvl 2: Lesser death aura
Lvl 4: Death Aura

For new players, I'd almost recommend Str 14, Con 14, Int 18 instead of Str 8, Con 16, Int 18, Cha 8

It's way to easy to get made helpless by ray of enfeeblement or ray of exhaustion since you can't count on having a +str item and may not have the SP to keep bulls str running all the time.

You also seem to be missing extend from your feat selection, it's great to have on your death auras and displacement

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 12:45 AM
You missed a few things:

When leveling up, refer to the Rare Arcane Scroll List (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Rare_Arcane_Scroll_List)
When you are offered spells to pick when leveling up, always pick spells from the rare list. Otherwise you'll have to track scrolls of them down later.

Once you get to lvl 9 teleport to the portable hole and buy and scribe all the scrolls. This should help make sure that you are only picking 'rare' spells when leveling up.

Spells to have:
Lvl 2: Lesser death aura
Lvl 4: Death Aura

For new players, I'd almost recommend Str 14, Con 14, Int 18 instead of Str 8, Con 16, Int 18, Cha 8

It's way to easy to get made helpless by ray of enfeeblement or ray of exhaustion since you can't count on having a +str item and may not have the SP to keep bulls str running all the time.

You also seem to be missing extend from your feat selection, it's great to have on your death auras and displacement

palemasters are immune to exhaustion last tiem i checked

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 12:50 AM
For a drow version, there's also the Epic Challenge Farmer linked in my signature. It's a basic drow pale master build, though it does max the pet line because the pet is more useful in challenges than it is in quests. The pet points can be spent on whatever else you prefer.

I also agree that a couple points in strength can be very helpful. For a human I'd go:

28pt: 18 int, 16 con, 10 str
32pt: 18 int, 16 con, 14 str

I wouldn't bother with UMD on a wizard, especially now that you can remove stat damage with lesser restoration posts.

MangLord
11-10-2014, 12:53 AM
There may have been one or two times that I was rendered helpless by a ray of enfeeblement, but is it worth wasting points in STR for points invested in another stat that will benefit me the other 99.9% of the time? I'm gonna say no. If you're completing a quest with enemies blasting you with ray of enfeeblement or other stat drain, you could spend a few PP to buy a wand of bull strength and get a similar result, or retreat behind a pillar and drink a lesser restoration pot. That spell is annoying for a couple levels, but hardly worth investing in STR at all. The investment in CON is much more useful, in my opinion.

My personal preference as a wizard is INT and more INT. I like Drow because you can pump INT to 20 right out of the gate. The racial CON hit isn't too bad with low-hanging-fruit PM and Harper HP enhancements, especially as a wizard, your only real concern is INT. With good gear and undead form, you'll be walking around with a healthy HP pool and good self healing. If you invest everything into INT, your CC will be basically unbeatable at HE/EH, so its unlikely that you'll be getting hurt very much anyways.

Wizard buffs are very strong. Blur, Greater Heroism and Shield are very, very good, and an Extended Displacement, Haste and Maximized Death Aura is a powerful combination with good nullification gear. Maximizing and Quickening your healing spells is somewhat expensive for your SP pool, but it really helps when you get swarmed and don't have to rely on a concentration check to get the spell cast instantly. I'd recommend at least Quickening you Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. If you Maximize those with a good Negative critical chance from enhancement trees and gear, you'll easily self heal in the midst of battle.

UMD isn't very important for a wizard. Most of the spells you'd want to UMD you can scroll without failure as a wizard. The only scroll you'd need UMD for is raise dead. You may as well invest in something else. Put 10 points into jump and the rest into diplomacy that will allow you to earn bonus xp or bypass a fight or two.

Its important to take Heighten Spell feat early, as it will boost your CC spell DCs to your current level, making Web and Dancing Sphere pay dividends for your entire career. I didn't spend an awful lot of time at epic levels as a wizard, as I prefer melees, but my basic strategy was to lock up a chokepoint with a Web and Disco Ball, then garnish it with an AOE like Wall of Fire or Ice Storm, depending on what scepters I had, what spellpower they boosted, and what would be most effective for the enemies in that quest. If you take the time to swap spells to cater to a specific quest, you'll do very well. I managed to get through every HE trap with Stoneskin, Protection from Elements, Resist Energy, Haste, Rage, Greater Heroism and False Life spells and scrolls.

Necromancy is very nice, but I'd say my bread and butter for most situations was trapping mobs in CC and laying down an AOE elemental spell with my skeleton adding to the beatdown and grabbing aggro. Even with good gear, I learned to be frugal with SP and rely more on CC and AOE spells with excellent DCs. Necromancy is great for instakilling, but the cooldowns are pretty long and the majority of my effectiveness came from good fire or ice spellpower when I locked down mobs in a Web topped off with a Wall of Fire.

For a pet, the skeleton is incredibly durable if you invest in it. At heroic levels, I'd often open a door so that I wasn't right in front of it and grabbing aggro right away, tab toggle onto an enemy, send my skeleton in to grab aggro, then lay down a Web or Dancing Ball as soon as he drew the entire mob on his position. The skeleton may not be good DPS, but he's very durable. He's awesome at consolidating mobs and drawing aggro. If you take advantage of that feature, it can be a huge asset in terms of CC and focusing an AOE spell to maximum benefit. If you choose not to use the skeleton, you can lay down CC and AOE on doorways and chokepoints for maximum effectiveness, but the skeleton grabs an incredible amount of hate off you and can be quite an asset.

The nice thing about being a wizard is that if you don't catch every enemy in a spell the first time, you can just kite them back into it, forcing them to make another save until they get caught. If you don't have the best DCs, you can just kite mobs through AOE spells until they die.

Wizards, especially Pale Masters, as incredibly versatile. All the tools to succeed in HE are there straight off the bat for a first life caster, you just have to be clever about using your resources. If you can link up with a high level Cannith crafter to make DC boosting items, you'll be a force to be reckoned with. I personally kept my Necromancy and Enchantment DCs as high as possible, with some emphasis towards Conjuration (for Web and acid spells) and Evocation (most fire/ice/electric spell DCs) when I could.

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 12:59 AM
There may have been one or two times that I was rendered helpless by a ray of enfeeblement, but is it worth wasting points in STR for points invested in another stat that will benefit me the other 99.9% of the time? I'm gonna say no. If you're completing a quest with enemies blasting you with ray of enfeeblement or other stat drain, you could spend a few PP to buy a wand of bull strength and get a similar result, or retreat behind a pillar and drink a lesser restoration pot. That spell is annoying for a couple levels, but hardly worth investing in STR at all.

My personal preference as a wizard is INT and more INT. I like Drow because you can pump INT to 20 right out of the gate. The racial CON hit isn't too bad with low-hanging-fruit PM and Harper HP enhancements, especially as a wizard, your only real concern is INT. With good gear and undead form, you'll be walking around with a healthy HP pool and good self healing. If you invest everything into INT, your CC will be basically unbeatable at HE/EH, so its unlikely that you'll be getting hurt very much anyways.Nobody is saying not to max int. Certainly nobody is saying sacrifice int to put points in strength.

We're saying that the stat points work out as follows:

16 build points into int (max)
10 build points into con (6 more would get it to max)
2 build points into strength
---
28pt (drow, or 28pt human)

With 32pt your choice is either 18 con 8 str, or 16 con 14 str. I prefer the latter. You yourself say that con isn't an issue for drow, and a drow wizard will have 14 con. If 14 con isn't an issue, 16 con surely isn't either.

Strength isn't just about being helpless. Encumberance makes you run slower, and the more chests you loot the more likely you will become encumbered if you start with 8 strength. Also, it's not a matter of 2 points in strength or bull's strength. My recommendation would be to spend the two points and use (extended?) bull's strength as one of your standard shrine buffs.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 01:05 AM
dropped con by 1 and put str for some of the reasons discussed in this thread thanks guys

hob

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 01:31 AM
Comparing the feat choices, here's the schedule from the OP:

1: maximize
1H: empower
1W: mental toughness
3: spell penetration
5W: Spell focus: necromancy
6: Insightful reflexes
9: Heighten
10W: Quicken
12: Toughness – more hp is good
15: Greater spell pen
15W: spell focus: enchant
18: Greater spell focus: necro
20W: Either improved mental toughness or enlarge

Here's the schedule from my link:

1 : Insightful Reflexes
1W: Spell Focus: Enchantment
3 : Empower Spell
5W: Extend Spell
6 : Heighten Spell
9 : Maximize Spell
10W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
12 : Spell Penetration
15 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
15W: Quicken Spell
18 : Greater Spell Penetration
20W: Mental Toughness

Eliminating the same feats, I take extend while you take two of toughness, enlarge and improved mental toughness. Of those four feats, as is obvious I prefer extend. It's quite nice for haste, displacement and death aura. I can see value in enlarge, but if I had a second feat to choose I think I'd rather have improved mental toughness, but not by much. It's a good call listing the two together and making it a player's choice. But I'd absolutely rather have extend than toughness.

I find enchantment actually useful in the lower levels, so I like to front-load that spell focus. You frontload maximize and empower for use on SLAs, but the only damage SLA they can be used on that early is magic missle, which is pretty poor at low levels even fully meta'd. I much prefer niac's cold ray. It does more damage un-meta'd than magic missile does fully meta'd, has a longer range, and is only slightly more expensive to cast.

As far as metas and SLAs go, I much prefer taking the web SLA and heightening it for free. Web is a level 2 spell, which means it can be heightened at wizard level 5. But that competes with extend for haste and displacement, which I value more. So I take extend at 5 and heighten at 6. Empower is taken early, as are the improved empower enhancements to make it cheaper. I then add maximize at 9, when I start to have enough of a mana pool to afford to use it. Again taking the improved maximize enhancements as soon as I get the feat.

Level 3 is way too early for spell penetration; level 12 is the earliest that I could justify taking it. Before level 10 quests, is there anything with spell resistance?

Level 5 is way too early to take necromancy focus, IMO. I don't use the necro school until necrotic ray/circle of death at wizard level 11, so necro focus is a natural fit for the level 10 wizard bonus feat.

I don't use quicken except for otto's sphere of dancing, which is wizard level 13. That gives a reason to take quicken at level 12, but I prefer spell penetration at 12 for ataraxia, that demon quest in the desert, the last two quests in sorrowdusk, and all the demons in threnal, all of which are quest level 10 or 11. So that pushes quicken back to 15 for me.

EDIT: Forgot to mention insightful reflexes. For a brand new player, their reflex saves will be awful until they take the feat. Even korthos traps will be super painful for a newbie, so I take it at creation.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 01:47 AM
Comparing the feat choices, here's the schedule from the OP:


Level 3 is way too early for spell penetration; level 12 is the earliest that I could justify taking it. Before level 10 quests, is there anything with spell resistance?



there is an ice flenser in korthos that should have sr but yes i agree with you

maybe renders in house k? the one ftp quest by the bank that no one ever runs?

i use quicken on necro burst. i usually run with 2 on my bar - one with quicken/maximize/empower one w/o just for emergencies.

for slas - i dont use mm - i use necro for the free sla and dc which gives you cold touch or whatever its called

the order i dont think is as much of an issue - but that may be biased coming from me. i tend to run through the first 12 levels real quick so it all blurs on me

Spell pen was more just to get it in and you can't take it with wiz bonus feats

hob

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 01:48 AM
EDIT: Forgot to mention insightful reflexes. For a brand new player, their reflex saves will be awful until they take the feat. Even korthos traps will be super painful for a newbie, so I take it at creation.

wholly bleepity bleep did i really wait till 6 for reflexes?

ya that should be 3 at the very latest for new peeps.

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 01:53 AM
i use quicken on necro burst. i usually run with 2 on my bar - one with quicken/maximize/empower one w/o just for emergencies.Makes sense. For me personally, I never use necro burst except in emergencies, letting aura do the work in non-emergency situations. Not having quicken until 15 just makes me mindful of preventing emergencies from becoming too severe via aggro management. But I can see the logic for taking it earlier.


for slas - i dont use mm - i use necro for the free sla and dc which gives you cold touch or whatever its calledAh, gotcha. After having run several wizard lives, I've never once used that spell or its SLA equivalent.


the order i dont think is as much of an issue - but that may be biased coming from me. i tend to run through the first 12 levels real quick so it all blurs on meFair enough, but order is pretty important for new players. They definitely do not blast through the first 12 levels in a blur.


Spell pen was more just to get it in and you can't take it with wiz bonus featsYeah, spell pen is a PITA due to not being eligible as a bonus feat.

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 01:59 AM
maybe renders in house k? the one ftp quest by the bank that no one ever runs?Taming the Flames? I don't remember any demons in there, just a bazillion elementals and mephits.

The only other F2P quests by the house k bank are level 11 (made to order) and 12 (relic of a sovereign past.) Both are thick with duergar, who have spell resistance, and are part of the reason I take spell penetration at 12.

I run all three quests every life.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 02:01 AM
Taming the Flames? I don't remember any demons in there, just a bazillion elementals and mephits.

The only other F2P quests by the house k bank are level 11 (made to order) and 12 (relic of a sovereign past.) Both are thick with duergar, who have spell resistance, and are part of the reason I take spell penetration at 12.

I run all three quests every life.

caverns of korromar

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 02:05 AM
caverns of korromarAh, gotcha. That's level 8 and does indeed have two demons, so fair point.

I also run that one every life, but for the demons I just dps them down, usually with frost lance and/or scorching ray.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 02:08 AM
Ah, gotcha. That's level 8 and does indeed have two demons, so fair point.

I also run that one every life, but for the demons I just dps them down, usually with frost lance and/or scorching ray.

ya i agree with ya - was reaching for anything with sr under 10 lol

hob

MangLord
11-10-2014, 02:20 AM
wholly bleepity bleep did i really wait till 6 for reflexes?

ya that should be 3 at the very latest for new peeps.

Wizard saves are fairly weak, so I honestly wouldn't waste the feat. Excellent reflex saves are hard to get unless you play a class that excels in that area, like a rogue, ranger or swashbuckler bard specialist. Unless you can get your reflex saves into the mid 60's at epic levels without evasion, its not worth the expenditure when you have so many other options. Without evasion, a 60-ish reflex isn't enough to mitigate damage without evasion. Even if you have Evasion, a 60 reflex isn't foolproof. You need 70ish to make full use of evasion, and 75-80 to really benefit from Epic Reflexes. I'd rather focus on true strengths as a wizard, which allows me to mostly avoid any saving throws at all with excellent CC and death spells. If I can easily tie up mobs in CC and AOE, then there's really no need to waste feats with saving throws that aren't a guaranteed save. I'd feel a lot better opting for DC based spell feats

As a wizard, there are so many ways to power your way through traps. Just using Prot from Energy and False Life got me through most heroic level traps without using GH, Stoneskin, Haste and Rage.

An upgraded Pale Lavender Ioun Stone is one of the best investments that you can make as a DDO player, no matter what class. When you have to fight a beholder, pop it on and they can't kill your buffs or level drain you.

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 02:36 AM
This is a new player build. How would a new player have a PLIS? Why would they care about endgame saves?

It's also worth pointing out that the endgame pale master thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide) (also linked in the OP) has this to say about insightful reflexes: "and don’t forget Insightful reflexes (it is critical for survival)"

AbyssalMage
11-10-2014, 03:03 AM
Any chance you can go take a look over and format it. Really hard (near impossible) to read.

I would place Elf or Human as most likely racial choices (if you truly consider Drow a premium race. I just consider it a "Now that you learned the basics of the game, here, have Drow :)" ). Elf, on a first life does provide Spell Pen + SP's which would be very helpful to a new player with no/very little gear who doesn't know the game very well.

Wh070aa
11-10-2014, 03:18 AM
Man this is just bad.
Feat selection, spell selection, enchantment selection,only thing I half agree on is maxing out Int and Con, and some of the spells.
Enchantment spaced 1rst lifer is unpleasant to play to the max, and wit the way you are writing it, it looks like maximum fustration build, combining the benefits of having no low level DC, with specing in doing no damage.

Well at least you didn't recommend hypnosis. This build looks like ones that were popular at update 9. Have you not been playing for couple of years?

As wizard you need
1)maximize
2)Spell focus/greater spell focus evocation or conjuration
Get that suff as soon as possible, do many low level damages with fireballs/burning hands/acidspray (then firewall, and delayed fireball) (evo) or acid blast/niclacs/web (the acid rain/dragon bolt) (Conj)
3)Then get spell pen, and necro focuses, when you can get necrotic ray/circle of death.

Rest depends on play style.

There are multiple play style things one should know about.
1)Kiting- needs jump, blurr, haste, fether fall(item). You jump over/around enemies in circles gather them up in groups(when you have use firewall, to keep agro/do damage) and finish off with fireball/acid ball combo. More mobs= more spell point efficiency.
2)CC ing. Same ting as kiting, but you put Ottos disco ball or web in middle of firewall. Warning fireball breaks web spell. Some say you just place it and let mobs run to you, but that's not good, if you fail. Many immune mobs.
3)Nuking. Use your best spell (niclacs,disintegrate,necrotic,polar ray's), or fireballs to burst tings. Use on caster mobs that don't kite well, and bosses (/immune enemies).
4)Instakilling. Using DC casting to do Save or die spells on hight HP enemies. (Circle of death, finger of death, banshee,power word kill). Same thing As CC spells, only instead of stunning, they kill enemy.
5) Healing/damage prevention. As long as you are in undead form keep up your death aura, for healing. Avoid light damage. Also elemental resists. Use all the resists. Also keep up jump,blurr, haste to doge enemies. Stone skin and displacement, if they are managing to hit you (archers, large melee swarms). You can keep stoneskin up always(its expensive), but displacement is only when you see enemy. Short duration.
Additional things.
Shield blocking inside firewall/whatever
1) Use your long duration area effect damage spell (firewall or ice storm, maybe acid rain/cloudkill/acid mist on top, and disco ball/web around you).
2) Take out tower shield and block, while the aura heals you. Possibly spam SLA's, if you have free points to spend on them (SLA's (exempt archmage core) are bad and should not be invested in. Use your aura, and non maximized niclac's/necrotic ray instead.

Some people do this instead of kiting. Extremely spell point inefficient. But is still better than sitting in firewall, blocking without shield/CC, like some people are doing.

Using weapon. Use great axe or staff with elemental damage/spell enchantments (arcane shard/stuff). Opposite to what people say, its bad idea, as you probably get damaged a lot , and die in this way. Usable on web(conj) builds, and while you are in vampire form only.
2Weapon fighting is dumb, as you don't have enough to hit (unless harper, maybe?). Someone is recommending that to new wizards, and they are dying in swarms. No clue why.

Archery. Needs elf for arcane archer tree. Gimps your damage, and healing, and wastes feats, and you end up not using it anyway, since you don't have BAB to take good feats. Play ranger, figter, or artificer if you want this. Seriously.


This is all advice I can give, to someone who does not know what they want to do.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 03:33 AM
stuff

not sure what you are getting at here - never said anything about archery anywhere

its a pm which means necro focused with enchantment as secondary

yes it has low level issues but most casters do........

not sure if you are trying to troll or if you are confused

Wipey
11-10-2014, 04:32 AM
Please don't neglect umd on a Wizard.
Everybody should be able to scroll Resurrection in raids, as a Wizard you would often need to raise people ( like in Mod, you would often be only person on the platform, in Fot, you might be on undead kiting duty, closest to Reaver tank, in Deathwyrm you would be Khuldjars kiter and gotta raise trash killer or even tank quick while everybody else is on shadow side ).
"Old" Citw, you might be closest to the hjealer that needs raise.
The best scrollhealer for Gop.
2 stacks at level DP from elite Priestess will murder you - drop form, scroll heal yourself.

In every raid/quest you should have good idea what is going on.

There is no excuse, not with bajillion skill points. Now best in slot helm has 11 charisma on it.
Max Spellcraft, Concentration, Heal, Umd, Search, half rank in Tumble.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 05:06 AM
Please don't neglect umd on a Wizard.
Everybody should be able to scroll Resurrection in raids, as a Wizard you would often need to raise people ( like in Mod, you would often be only person on the platform, in Fot, you might be on undead kiting duty, closest to Reaver tank, in Deathwyrm you would be Khuldjars kiter and gotta raise trash killer or even tank quick while everybody else is on shadow side ).
"Old" Citw, you might be closest to the hjealer that needs raise.
The best scrollhealer for Gop.
2 stacks at level DP from elite Priestess will murder you - drop form, scroll heal yourself.

In every raid/quest you should have good idea what is going on.

There is no excuse, not with bajillion skill points. Now best in slot helm has 11 charisma on it.
Max Spellcraft, Concentration, Heal, Umd, Search, half rank in Tumble.

i havn't added in skills, but it is a very hard thing to reset if you don't start from the begining so i may add it

hob

Wh070aa
11-10-2014, 06:34 AM
not sure what you are getting at here - never said anything about archery anywhere

its a pm which means necro focused with enchantment as secondary

yes it has low level issues but most casters do........

not sure if you are trying to troll or if you are confused

Some guy was talking about elves fiew posts up. Also I seen some in game, just adding that in.

As for most casters going enchantment, I don't really think so? At least I seen only 2 of them while partying last month?(from 20 + characters).

I made this kind of build when I was new player, and almost quit the game because of it. And that was when these kind of builds were good.
I really ****ing hate enchantment speced wizards I have partyed with, as they
1) charm monsters, and don't release. Especially the "Kill to advance" ones.
2)Whine that you ruin their Hypnosis CC with your fireballs/glancing bows/regular attacks. This goes especially for veteran players, but new players are not that good about this too.
3)Can't get enough spell pen/ DC for it to work.
4)Do no actual damage, and after the CC wears off die, because they can't kill stuff, and ran out of spell points.

Some enchantment stuff is Ok after you get disco ball, but earlier than that, its just annoying and wasteful. New players need the benefit from feats NOW, not 12+ levels later. Same goes for necromancy, its worthless to take before level 12 (maybe 9, if you spec for it).

Also Enchantment does not work on 50% + of the monsters in game.
Undead
Constructs
vermin

Guess what are weakness of necromancy, which you spec secondary(and don't even mention circle of undeath to death)? That's right exactly the same.
Also The spell level for necromancy to be useful is same as enchantment.

So you recommend to take 2 classes 1 of which kills some of the enemies, and 1 holds them in place. Guess what? You can kill same enemies, that you can CC. The requirements to success are exactly same.
Only exception are deathwarded mobs, which (guess what) are (mostly)drow prestreses, and demons that have too mutch spell resist to CC anyway.

Make character like this without gear, and run it for a bit. See how enjoyable it is before level 12 or so. Use only the spell selection you mentioned in your post, to make it clear what you recommend.

I am really tired of helping out new players after they follow the advice on forums, and can't do anything useful afterwards.

When giving advise please
1)Give rundown of weakness and streetlights
2)give more than one option
3)explain what its supposed to do.
4)Give advice on play style, that comes with the build.
5)If possible make the formatting better.
6)(W). Mention spells/tricks that help with weakness of the build

Also what exactly are new player supposed to do whit this build? Like its seriously unpleasant to play. Before you are level 12+

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 07:09 AM
Looking at the spell list in the OP, I think I agree. I don't see any DPS spells listed in the early levels when they're needed most.

For the first two levels, my wizards use niac's cold ray almost exclusively. At level 3 I add in scorching ray and scorch, and either a) alternate between niac's and scorching ray, or b) web (sla) up a group of mobs and scorch (aoe) them to death. Typically I choose either scorching ray or scorch depending on the quest. It's rare that I have both slotted at the same time. Most of the time it's just the ray.

Once I get level 3 spells I drop niac's like a bad habit and replace it with frost lance. Frost Lance + Scorching Ray serves me well as bread and butter killing for small groups of mobs until I get necrotic ray and instakills. For larger groups, web sla + scorch (or acid blast or whatever) limps along until level 4 spells, at which point it's all webby firewalls, all the time.

The recommended spell list in the OP for level 1 spells (all the spells you get for the first two levels of your life) are:

Hypnotize, jump, magic missle

That strikes me as a waking nightmare. I would recommend something more like:

Wizard Level 1: Expeditious Retreat, Niac's Cold Ray, Charm Person
Wizard Level 2: Detect Secret Doors
Wizard Level 3: Scorching Ray, Lesser Death Aura(, Web SLA)
Wizard Level 4: Knock
Wizard Level 5: Frost Lance, Displacement
Wizard Level 6: Resist Energy, Hold Person
Wizard Level 7: Protection From Evil, Firewall, Death Aura
Wizard Level 8: Acid Rain, Haste
Wizard Level 9: Spawn Screen, Niac's Biting Cold, Eladur's Electric Surge
Wizard Level 10: Dimension Door, Cone of Cold

Wh070aa
11-10-2014, 07:50 AM
Looking at the spell list in the OP, I think I agree. I don't see any DPS spells listed in the early levels when they're needed most.

For the first two levels, my wizards use niac's cold ray almost exclusively. At level 3 I add in scorching ray and scorch, and either a) alternate between niac's and scorching ray, or b) web (sla) up a group of mobs and scorch (aoe) them to death. Typically I choose either scorching ray or scorch depending on the quest. It's rare that I have both slotted at the same time. Most of the time it's just the ray.

Once I get level 3 spells I drop niac's like a bad habit and replace it with frost lance. Frost Lance + Scorching Ray serves me well as bread and butter killing for small groups of mobs until I get necrotic ray and instakills. For larger groups, web sla + scorch (or acid blast or whatever) limps along until level 4 spells, at which point it's all webby firewalls, all the time.

The recommended spell list in the OP for level 1 spells (all the spells you get for the first two levels of your life) are:

Hypnotize, jump, magic missle

That strikes me as a waking nightmare. I would recommend something more like:

Wizard Level 1: Expeditious Retreat, Niac's Cold Ray, Charm Person
Wizard Level 2: Detect Secret Doors
Wizard Level 3: Scorching Ray, Lesser Death Aura(, Web SLA)
Wizard Level 4: Knock
Wizard Level 5: Frost Lance, Displacement
Wizard Level 6: Resist Energy, Hold Person
Wizard Level 7: Protection From Evil, Firewall, Death Aura
Wizard Level 8: Acid Rain, Haste
Wizard Level 9: Spawn Screen, Niac's Biting Cold, Eladur's Electric Surge
Wizard Level 10: Dimension Door, Cone of Cold



You are forgetting fireball, acid blast, burning hands/acid spray combos, for AOE nuking.And layering acid rain with firewall or ice storm(slow effect is nice, but cancels out firewall) for more damage. Also delayed blast fireball and cloudkill -con damage(necromancy has fort saves), and concealment miss chance. and 1minute (or more) duration! Cloudkill damage is really low, but If you look at it as utility/defensive/debuff spell, its pretty nice, altho the poison immunity protects from most damage. Its situationaly really good.

No but seriously you guys are ignoring fireball. Whats wrong with you?

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 07:56 AM
You are forgetting fireball, acid blast, burning hands/acid spray combos, for AOE nuking.And layering acid rain with firewall or ice storm(slow effect is nice, but cancels out firewall) for more damage. Also delayed blast fireball and cloudkill -con damage(necromancy has fort saves), and concealment miss chance. and 1minute (or more) duration! Cloudkill damage is really low, but If you look at it as utility/defensive/debuff spell, its pretty nice, altho the poison immunity protects from most damage. Its situationaly really good.

No but seriously you guys are ignoring fireball. Whats wrong with you?I'm not forgetting any of that. I don't use it.

I especially don't use fireball because I use web.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 10:42 AM
Some guy was talking about elves fiew posts up. Also I seen some in game, just adding that in.

As for most casters going enchantment, I don't really think so? At least I seen only 2 of them while partying last month?(from 20 + characters).

I made this kind of build when I was new player, and almost quit the game because of it. And that was when these kind of builds were good.
I really ****ing hate enchantment speced wizards I have partyed with, as they
1) charm monsters, and don't release. Especially the "Kill to advance" ones.
2)Whine that you ruin their Hypnosis CC with your fireballs/glancing bows/regular attacks. This goes especially for veteran players, but new players are not that good about this too.
3)Can't get enough spell pen/ DC for it to work.
4)Do no actual damage, and after the CC wears off die, because they can't kill stuff, and ran out of spell points.

Some enchantment stuff is Ok after you get disco ball, but earlier than that, its just annoying and wasteful. New players need the benefit from feats NOW, not 12+ levels later. Same goes for necromancy, its worthless to take before level 12 (maybe 9, if you spec for it).

Also Enchantment does not work on 50% + of the monsters in game.
Undead
Constructs
vermin

Guess what are weakness of necromancy, which you spec secondary(and don't even mention circle of undeath to death)? That's right exactly the same.
Also The spell level for necromancy to be useful is same as enchantment.

So you recommend to take 2 classes 1 of which kills some of the enemies, and 1 holds them in place. Guess what? You can kill same enemies, that you can CC. The requirements to success are exactly same.
Only exception are deathwarded mobs, which (guess what) are (mostly)drow prestreses, and demons that have too mutch spell resist to CC anyway.

Make character like this without gear, and run it for a bit. See how enjoyable it is before level 12 or so. Use only the spell selection you mentioned in your post, to make it clear what you recommend.

I am really tired of helping out new players after they follow the advice on forums, and can't do anything useful afterwards.

When giving advise please
1)Give rundown of weakness and streetlights
2)give more than one option
3)explain what its supposed to do.
4)Give advice on play style, that comes with the build.
5)If possible make the formatting better.
6)(W). Mention spells/tricks that help with weakness of the build

Also what exactly are new player supposed to do whit this build? Like its seriously unpleasant to play. Before you are level 12+

never mentioned charms at all........

Never mentioned any way to play the build period. Part of the fun is learning what makes it fun for you.

My method with this build is very zergish - grab a bunch of mobs toss down a web/fog/hypno to make them stop for one moment then circle/wail move on rinse repeat.

This may not work for all people, as i am not telling people you must play this way to succeed.

This is a perfectly adequite build for a new person to both level and play in epics.
Can a new person take this into ee wgu solo and succeed? probably not. Can the same new person take it to wgu ee with 5 other people and contribute? of course they can!

As for the spell list - that was just some standout spells I picked out - they are good for any pm they are not the most ubererer that you must have or you will be auto kicked from parties

As for spell combos that is a vaild point that i didn't want to start because i didnt want people saying "but you forgot this one! that means you need to learn to play nub"
Ex: solid fog + chain lighting/fireball/ottoluicks, energy drain + finger, crushing despair + wail etc etc
Not trying to carp on you but it seems like you are just attacking the build as bad because it doesn't work for you

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 10:44 AM
You are forgetting fireball, acid blast, burning hands/acid spray combos, for AOE nuking.And layering acid rain with firewall or ice storm(slow effect is nice, but cancels out firewall) for more damage. Also delayed blast fireball and cloudkill -con damage(necromancy has fort saves), and concealment miss chance. and 1minute (or more) duration! Cloudkill damage is really low, but If you look at it as utility/defensive/debuff spell, its pretty nice, altho the poison immunity protects from most damage. Its situationaly really good.

No but seriously you guys are ignoring fireball. Whats wrong with you?

i use ottoluicks/chain lightning/acidball - I keep things webbed or instakilled if possible if rednamed i try to keep them dotted up.

Rednamed dps is an issue pms - if im trying to solo they are the pain if not i leave that part to the melees

Wh070aa
11-10-2014, 11:20 AM
i use ottoluicks/chain lightning/acidball - I keep things webbed or instakilled if possible if rednamed i try to keep them dotted up.

Rednamed dps is an issue pms - if im trying to solo they are the pain if not i leave that part to the melees

This is crackly why I am calling it a bad build for beginners.
You don't get instakills till way later in the game.
You don't have web DC, because you don't take any conjuration focus, or have items, or heigten (untlill level 9).

All you can do is cast webs, and do half damage/no damage to mobs with reflex saves.
Wizard should not have any problems with red names, as long as you have maximize.
Your build does not focus on any actual damage. And you say nothing about immune monsters.
Also someone who doesn't know quest, and leaves a lot of monsters CC will likely die, when running back (or cause red alert). You don't mention anything about that in the guide. Also you are loosing 50% + of the spells you are focusing on (charms and stuff), which can be used to great effect when soloing (and in some quests).

I am no saying you cant do this, but his is not new player friendly build, and you don't mention any of the (pretty huge, if you ask me) problems with it. This build is not one you can just pick up, and understand what you are doing with it.

Yes, I personally don't like the build. But I have objective reason why I don't like it, and I have seen multiple examples of why similar builds are bad for people new to wizard class. Multiple people I know in game have more or less sworn to newer play wizard, after experimenting with similar builds. I am not talking about being EE capable. I am talking about not being bored to death while being barely level 4.
Also you use spells of all schools, exempt the ones you focus in. This is by mo means "Basic wizard for new players". This is collection of feats, that don't make sense, that you play with. I am sure some people might like it, but this is "CC/instakill wizard for mid to higher levels".

Also have they finally fixed the chain lightning animation, and it actually hits something now? Because it's as broken as monks hand wraps, last few times I checked, and all other spells in those same spell slots are pretty much better.

Well I am not gonna argue with you, just trying to point out few things, so that new players wont get EXTREMELY discouraged after trying this.

Andoris
11-10-2014, 01:26 PM
Great thread idea Hob!

For new players I would agree for the F2P races.. Elf or Human is your best bet. Personally I believe that, Elf is ideal as a new players are going to have a lot of issues dealing with Spell Resistance as they will not have the Past lives to support it. Add to the fact that they are unlikely to have the play skills to deal with not being able to break SR ... boosting high enough to be useful is critical. Actually, I would rank Elf above Drow for a new player -- if they are willing to spend TP and figure out the reincarnation system Sun Elf would be best.. but it is unlikely that a new player will want to deal with the hassle.

While I don't think about spell pen at epic levels much.. it is a fairly big deal in Heroics (VoN, Gianthold, Vale, Duergar, etc). By the time they run into Drow in VoN 3 (around level 10) they will at best have 22 spell pen (10 base + 3 Arcanum + 3 Archmage +2 item + 4 feats) which is not enough for elite drow.. but should cover hard and normal fine.

You might also want to include a section on playstyle. It is not intuitive for new players that the best plan for a wizard between levels 1-9ish is to pick up a great axe (Carnifex is amazing for this) and cast masters touch -- when you hit level 5 you can open with a fire/acid ball.. then clean up with your great axe. Too many new players think they can blast their way through early content and instead end up running out of SP and annoyed at the class. Once you hit lvl 9ish, your spell casting is powerful enough and you should have enough spell points to be more focused on spell casting.

Another good area for discussion is on the early Pale Master forms (vampire form + searing light casting undead is bad news)



Stats

[snip]

Reason behind stats
You need two stats: int for spell points/skills/dc’s and Constitution for more hp


You might want to put a table in here for 28pt builds (table can be 28/32 pt builds for elf and human) -- also don't forget to mention strength in your reasoning (as commented on below)



Enhancments

[snip]
10 eldritch knight
1 core
6 tier 1
3-Improved mage armor
3 toughness
3 tier 2
3 improved shield


The formatting in this section needs a lot of work -- it is very hard to read.

I wouldn't recommend wasting points in Eldritch Knight, unless you are trying to wear heavy armor (which is an advanced tactic) it is a bad idea for a DC caster. Those points are better spent in Archmage or the racial tree.



Some notes on spells –
You can change them at will (at shrines)
This is not an exhaustive list but some good spells to have at each level


I would highlight the importance of displacement and other spells that will keep them alive. As another poster mentioned, a discussion on the rare scroll list would be very helpful for a new player.

Also I did a spell review a while back that would be a good read for new players: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide?p=5096728&viewfull=1#post5096728



Comparing the feat choices, here's the schedule from the OP:

1: maximize
1H: empower
1W: mental toughness
3: spell penetration
5W: Spell focus: necromancy
6: Insightful reflexes
9: Heighten
10W: Quicken
12: Toughness – more hp is good
15: Greater spell pen
15W: spell focus: enchant
18: Greater spell focus: necro
20W: Either improved mental toughness or enlarge

Here's the schedule from my link:

1 : Insightful Reflexes
1W: Spell Focus: Enchantment
3 : Empower Spell
5W: Extend Spell
6 : Heighten Spell
9 : Maximize Spell
10W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
12 : Spell Penetration
15 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
15W: Quicken Spell
18 : Greater Spell Penetration
20W: Mental Toughness


For the most part I agree with Ellis on the feat choices. The only changes I would make to his list is to take Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen earlier as you want them for Von and Gianthold. You can hold off on Empower (won't have the spell points to power it) and Heighten (isn't much of a DC boost until later -- think about this for lvl 15 or 18). Lastly.. I would recommend Greater Enchant focus over Mental Toughness -- but then again, I never liked the mental toughness line of feats.

Extend is more important for a new player than it is for an experienced one, as they likely will not have the internal clock in their head that reminds them to re-cast spells like death aura and displacement (also haste is very important for the party in heroics)


This is a new player build. How would a new player have a PLIS? Why would they care about endgame saves?

It's also worth pointing out that the endgame pale master thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide) (also linked in the OP) has this to say about insightful reflexes: "and don’t forget Insightful reflexes (it is critical for survival)"

Insightful reflexes is the single most important feat for surivability. I would sooner drop 1 point off of my DCs than build a Int based wizard without it. For a new player that will not have the gear or twitch skills to dodge spells and avoid traps it is even more important.

Andoris
11-10-2014, 01:33 PM
Please don't neglect umd on a Wizard.
Everybody should be able to scroll Resurrection in raids, as a Wizard you would often need to raise people ( like in Mod, you would often be only person on the platform, in Fot, you might be on undead kiting duty, closest to Reaver tank, in Deathwyrm you would be Khuldjars kiter and gotta raise trash killer or even tank quick while everybody else is on shadow side ).
"Old" Citw, you might be closest to the hjealer that needs raise.
The best scrollhealer for Gop.
2 stacks at level DP from elite Priestess will murder you - drop form, scroll heal yourself.

In every raid/quest you should have good idea what is going on.

There is no excuse, not with bajillion skill points. Now best in slot helm has 11 charisma on it.
Max Spellcraft, Concentration, Heal, Umd, Search, half rank in Tumble.

This ^^

I think I throw more Resurrections on my PM than I do on my FvS

Andoris
11-10-2014, 01:53 PM
I dug up some TRing advice I gave out via private messages a year or so back on gear, which might be helpful to include as well. Note that some of this gear is outside the reach of a new player, but it might serve as a good starting point as we look at options at various levels. Feel free to use what you wish:



I play the wizard as a warrior for levels 1-10ish, using my spells to augement my melee abilities or throw a fireball/firewall into a room to damage the mobs, followed by a cleave from Canifex/SoS finish them off. Once you hit about level 10 your invulnerability robe stops being effective, and the incoming damage starts to get too much for your low hp to deal with. That is also when you start to get stronger spells and the spell points to effectively use them.

I typically do not use undead form until level 12 when you get wraith form. Zombie is just too slow, and vampire is a death trap unless you take improved shrouding (which you will be around lvl 12 when you get the APs for that anyways).

Level 1-4
Trinket: Melee Alacrity 10%
Head: Crafted (Flexable) Secret Door Detection
Neck: Necklace of Contemplation
Goggles: Trapblast
Bracers: Bracers of Air (ML4)
Body: Crafted Invulnerability Robe w/ Large Guild Augment - 20 hp (ML-2)
Cloak: Mirror Cloak (ML -3)
Ring: Ring (colorless: Masters Gift) / Crafted Enchant Saves +5
Boots: Open
Gloves: Open
Belt: Crafted Moderate Fort (ML-3)
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity
Weapon: Crafted Holy Q-Staff

Levels 5-9
Trinket: Stalwart / PLIS / Archmagi Ioun Stone
Head: Frost
Neck: Crafted Int +4
Goggles: Goggles of Intuition
Bracers: Crafted Flexable Con +6
Body: Crafted Invulnerability Robe w/ Large Guild Augment - 20 hp
Cloak: Mirror Cloak (ML -3) Ring: Ring of resistance +5 / Crafted Heavy Fort
Boots: Corrosion
Gloves: Shocking
Belt: Improved/Greater False life (colorless: masters gift)
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity
Weapon: Canifex/SoS

Levels 11+

Trinket: Litany / PLIS / Archmagi Ioun Stone
Head: Green Steel Con-Opp (150 SP)
Neck: Torc / Sages Locket
Goggles: Crafted +6 int (ML 9) || Sages (ML-15)
Bracers: Demon Consort
Body: Shroud of the Abbot (ML – 14)
Cloak: Good luck +2 (Masters Gift) – ML 9
Ring: Ring of Resistance +5 / Crafted Necromancy +2 (LGA – 80 spell points)
Boots: Rock Boots –ML 11 tier 2 (Immune to slippery Surfaces)
Gloves: Green Steel Triple Earth (45 hp)
Belt: Electric Haze (ML -13) [I have the old version, if I had the new one I would slot toughness here)
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity
Weapon: Luck Blade (Nullification, Combustion, Lightning) / Green Steel (+6 con, +1 except int, +2 insightful int,)

Andoris
11-10-2014, 02:07 PM
This is crackly why I am calling it a bad build for beginners.
You don't get instakills till way later in the game.
You don't have web DC, because you don't take any conjuration focus, or have items, or heigten (untlill level 9).

All you can do is cast webs, and do half damage/no damage to mobs with reflex saves.

While I agree that his spell list needs some work (I might have a spell selection by level guide laying around that I can post) and the build would benefit from taking Conjuration focus feats early and then swapping those feats later, the build can still be quite effective with out them (we are only talking about 1-2 points of DC here) and mob saves are actually pretty low in heroics. In many cases just maxing out your Int is enough (+2 spell school focus items also are a big help though)

I also agree that you really will not use necromancy until level 13ish+ and Enchantment really needs level 15ish (mass hold person and Disco Ball) to come into its own, however; suggestion/charms can be useful at low level -- just make sure you know where the dismiss charm button is :).



Wizard should not have any problems with red names, as long as you have maximize.
Your build does not focus on any actual damage. And you say nothing about immune monsters.
Also someone who doesn't know quest, and leaves a lot of monsters CC will likely die, when running back (or cause red alert). You don't mention anything about that in the guide. Also you are loosing 50% + of the spells you are focusing on (charms and stuff), which can be used to great effect when soloing (and in some quests).

I am no saying you cant do this, but his is not new player friendly build, and you don't mention any of the (pretty huge, if you ask me) problems with it. This build is not one you can just pick up, and understand what you are doing with it.


I agree with the points here -- a general playstyle guide is very important for a new player. Wizards even more so as the playstyle will change numerous times on the path from 1-20.

Andoris
11-10-2014, 02:58 PM
Dug up another old private message on spell selection -- the message was a bit old, but it should work as a starting point.

----
Wizard levels 1-4
Level 1: Master's Gift, Shield, Mage Armor, Expeditious Retreat
Level 2: Blur, Knock, Scorch
Scroll: Invisibility


Wizard levels 5-10
Level 1: Master's Gift, Shield, Mage Armor, Jump, Expeditious Retreat
Level 2: Blur, Knock, Resist Energy, Web, Melf's Acid Arrow
Level 3: Acid Blast, Haste, Rage, Displacement
Level 4: Dimension Door, Acid Rain, Death Aura, Negative Energy Burst || Burning Blood and Wall of Fire if not using undead forms
Level 5: Cone of Cold, Niacs (or Eldar's), Symbol of Pain (good time to teach them how to use symbols and kiting)
Scrolls: Invisibility, Teleport, Break Enchantment, Fire Shield

Notes: Don't use any undead forms until you get both Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst -- It isn't a bad idea to wait until level 12 for Wraith form and just use pots/cure serious wands to heal.


Wizard levels 11-16
Level 1: Feather Fall, Night shield, Hypnotism, Jump, Expeditious Retreat
Level 2: Blur, Knock, Resist Energy, Web, Scorching Ray
Level 3: Frost Lance, Haste, Rage, Displacement, Magic Circle vs Evil
Level 4: Dimension Door, Acid Storm, Death Aura, Negative Energy Burst, Phantasmal Killer or Crushing Despair or Fire wall
Level 5: Cloud Kill, Niacs, Symbol of Pain, Eldar's, Mind Fog
Level 6: Necrotic Ray, Circle of Death, Death to Undeath, Disintegrate
Level 7: Finger of Death, Mass Hold Person, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Delayed Blast Fireball
Level 8: Otto's Irresistible Dance, Power Word: Stun, Polar Ray
Scrolls: Mass Invisibility, Teleport, Break Enchantment, Fire Shield, Shadow Walk, Greater Heroism, Greater Teleport

Demsac
11-10-2014, 03:21 PM
Wizard saves are fairly weak, so I honestly wouldn't waste the feat. Excellent reflex saves are hard to get unless you play a class that excels in that area, like a rogue, ranger or swashbuckler bard specialist.


Oh so like an intelligence base wizard with the insightful reflexes feat.



Fireball is a great spell at low levels, just turn off max and empower so you don't burn threw your spell points. I used it more while leveling then firewall heh.

Enoach
11-10-2014, 05:03 PM
For the basic low level wizard who does not want to pull out a great axe is to put a rotation of wands into the mix, also many offensive spells can be accessed earlier as well as access enhancements that can be redistributed later if needed. At low level even 1/2 damage in the rotation can help preserve Spell Points.

Now Naic's Cold Ray does great damage but against Kobolds who have a high reflex save it actually costs more to try to use this spell as a primary offence spell.

Now for the Melee willing - EK for allowing you a higher AC as well as a cleave attack - Don't underestimate a cleave attack being available at lower levels - Combine with blur (Wand/Scroll) and later Displacement (Scroll) and stoneskin wands goes a long way defensively at the earlier levels. You can then redistribute the AP to your focus.

What I like about Hobs start in this thread is that it starts out very general meaning you can go just about any "Caster" direction be it DPS or DC based.

I agree UMD is a valuable skill for a wizard, it gives a wizard flexibility.

For races the Elf & Human are good choices; elf for access to the Arcanum line for Spell points as well as Spell Penetration. But also for the Feywild Tap for a little extra SP or Enchantment Lore which 3rd Tier grants +1 Enchantment DC.

Human - Access to Int enhancement, Heal Amp as well as the Additional Feat - extra feat makes it easier to be proficient in multiple schools.

fmalfeas
11-10-2014, 06:04 PM
As someone who plays wizards a LOT and even started with them, I have some issues with this.

First, the absolute most valuable spells to a starting wizard, I'd say, are as follows - Shield, Burning Hands, Jump, Acid Spray, shocking grasp, Sonic Bolt. Niac's is a 'save or nothing', and not only that, making it your primary damage spell right out the gate makes Korthos harder (ice spiders and the ice flenser and skeletons are all utterly immune to cold damage). And later on, those kobolds have good reflex saves for their level. Shocking Grasp has decent output, and no save at all. Burning Hands and Acid Spray have tolerable output in the beginning, and hit multiple targets.

I never assume having a group in a build, so I always build for solo viability. Thus, I rarely make necro or enchantment a primary spec. Too many things immune, and until Necrotic Ray, necro is weak-to-useless against reds. Fortunately, you can PM *and* play with evoc if you want, and do so effectively. Evoc and Conj spells also don't worry about SR.

The Elixirs you can get from the collectors, btw, are amazing, and make even Archmage completely viable. (Lowish wizard HP totals keep them in the running far longer than for sturdier classes.)

At low level, 28pt build, and no TR gear...haste and rage are luxury spells, and should not be considered primary. You don't have the SP to be spamming that (especially not when they last less than a minute to top it off). You're better off with Blur and Jump. Hard target a mob, jump backwards out of the press of mobs and nail them with a fireball, electric loop, acid blast, or even a burning hands/acid spray. Snowball Swarm has a delay before the damage triggers that can allow mobs to get out of the radius, so I put it very low on the priority table as well. Plus, skeletons are too common to become an ice-addict at low to mid levels anyway.

Stoneskin - unless you're on Elite, don't cast it, period. Go to DDO wiki and look up the mechanics for Dungeon Scaling and you'll see why. In short, unless on Elite, or in a raid, it does nothing but eat your SP and plat like Cookie Monster in the Keebler Elves tree.

Knock - at low level, rogue hires cost shards or TP, and as I said, don't assume you always have a group. You may want to do an unpopular quest, or it may just be a bad time period (possible Euro or just night-owl). Knock will give you access to alternate paths with fewer mobs or maybe optionals for more XP and loot, and let you open some chests you otherwise couldn't. It'll also make the end fight of partycrashers far simpler by letting you get rid of the tieflings upstairs.

Glitterdust - This is your best defensive spell for a long time if you have decent conjuration DCs. Area-effect blind with no SR check. Casters and archers hit by it will fire their attacks wildly, sparing you tons of damage. Melees that aren't point-blank on you will flail wildly at the air, and even if they do get a bead on you, they have a 50% miss chance that they have no means of overcoming at all.

Stinking Cloud - an alternate conj option for Glitterdust. Uses a different save, so can be more effective in some quests. A Nauseated creature can do nothing but move. You've utterly shut them down. Only works on the living. I suspect it doesn't work on Trogs either, so be aware. Plus, fort-save, so don't count on it against trolls, ogres, or giants on a first life. Still no SR though, so it's brutal against drow, mind flayers...things like that. Still, it's a powerful debuff effect, so don't bother on bosses unless they have buddies, like the king in Cabal for One.

Also - new players...*do not build for shiradi*. Wait until you actually have the destiny and then ER or LR if your build needs changed. You'll start in the Arcane sphere, and have to cross the Martial sphere just to get to Shiradi. That is, at minimum, 3 destinies away from you.

Old advice was to ignore fire later on. I say 'that advice is outdated'. If you have access to Shadowfell, you don't have to touch Vale or Amrath if you don't want to, which means that fire is completely viable. Also - if you're working evocation, Web is not your friend, really. Why? It's a reflex save, and the things you can't just vaporize are the ones with good reflex saves. Solid Fog, on the other hand, debuffs reflex, slows mobs movement rates, and provides 20% concealment that True Seeing doesn't overcome. Don't get me wrong. Web can be good in groups, or when you have the skelepet and want to lock down mobs for him to beat on so you don't have to cast anymore.

Finally - new players - as a wizard, don't be embarrased to run on Normal or Hard. The huge HP on elite means much higher SP consumption for you. You're just getting started, and don't have all the SP gear, so unless you've got a solid group, and especially if soloing, lower diffs are fine and dandy. And on a first life, the XP is fine on normal and especially hard.

Don't be afraid to bring a cleric hire with divine vitality. At low levels, you can even use them as tanks and melee DPS sources that will make you feel ashamed. It's only temporary though.

Wall of Fire and Acid Rain are your friends if you have Necro2. Those shadows and phasing creatures will be pasted by them, instead of eating your sp by phasing out just before your nuke lands. Same for Scorpions.

Most summons suck. Exceptions - Celestial Dog (for level, it's tough and does okay damage), Bearded Devil, Air Elemental, Greater Ice Mephit (a high-regen summon!), and Ghale Eladrin. Sometimes the giant-butt Hezrou can be okay, but mostly he just blocks visibility and gets killed, doing little damage. Create Undead has 2 good summons for their level. The wight casts light damage spells, making him especially useful sometimes. The mummy has a nasty paralyzing fear aura. The wraith, while possibly effective, spawns hostile wraiths. Screw him.

Hobgoblin
11-10-2014, 06:45 PM
I wouldn't recommend wasting points in Eldritch Knight, unless you are trying to wear heavy armor (which is an advanced tactic) it is a bad idea for a DC caster.


ok the reasoning behind ek was simple and I may be wrong but it went more like this:

I get more hp, i dont have to spend a spell slot on shield, and i get more prr. I was thinking more defensively here and with a simple walmart epic - guardians ring - you have an ok prr for starting out. You would have 24 from ring, 10 from ek, and 10? from pm.

o and sorry about being defensive earlier. my caster is probably my favorite character even if i am a dirty sorc right now and trying to help new players capture some of that fun.

hob

EllisDee37
11-10-2014, 11:25 PM
Heighten (isn't much of a DC boost until later -- think about this for lvl 15 or 18)If you take the Web SLA, heighten is useful (and free!) starting at level 5. +1 DC on web is pretty significant if only because it's so intuitively natural to repeatedly kite mobs through the web when they make their save.


I would recommend Greater Enchant focus over Mental Toughness -- but then again, I never liked the mental toughness line of feats.I don't particularly like them either, but at least they now give some DPS with the increased crit %. However, in the build as written in the OP, both Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness are slotted for wizard bonus feats. Greater Enchant Focus can't replace either of them, so re-ordering would be needed.