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Drmoose
11-07-2014, 08:07 AM
Hello All,

Ok this is my first go at a human pally build and would like some info on types of builds.

do you think i need the feats shield mastery and tower shield ?
also as a custom stat build from new what stats do you recommend on a 32 point build?

I would have chosen:-

Str 14
dex 12
con 14
wis 16
int 8
cha 14

But please advise me on what ois best or better? and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon? or what do you all think?


Many Thanks for replies:-)

Regards,

DrMoose.

Teh_Bugbear
11-07-2014, 08:18 AM
Hello All,

Ok this is my first go at a human pally build and would like some info on types of builds.

do you think i need the feats shield mastery and tower shield ?
also as a custom stat build from new what stats do you recommend on a 32 point build?

I would have chosen:-

Str 14
dex 12
con 14
wis 16
int 8
cha 14

But please advise me on what ois best or better? and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon? or what do you all think?


Many Thanks for replies:-)

Regards,

DrMoose.

For starters, i would recommend playing a purple dragon knight iconic character.

RD2play
11-07-2014, 08:24 AM
Hello All,

Ok this is my first go at a human pally build and would like some info on types of builds.

do you think i need the feats shield mastery and tower shield ?
also as a custom stat build from new what stats do you recommend on a 32 point build?

I would have chosen:-

Str 14
dex 12
con 14
wis 16
int 8
cha 14

But please advise me on what ois best or better? and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon? or what do you all think?


Many Thanks for replies:-)

Regards,

DrMoose.

dump wisdom you only need 14 to be able to cast you highest level spells and you can reach that easy wiht an item or tomes if you have. better put some points in int for more skill points and increase either str con or cha to 16 depending on the route you want to take. also if you go S&B calculate how much dex will be available to you and how muh will actually count because of armorcheck prolly can dump this also unles you need it to qualify for something

for the type of build I think you should choose what you think you will like best and then ask for details concerning that direction

GL

cru121
11-07-2014, 08:25 AM
I would have chosen 16 in Str, Con, Cha. The 2 remaining points can be spent according to personal preference. Levelups into Str or Cha.

Loromir
11-07-2014, 08:28 AM
Hello All,

Ok this is my first go at a human pally build and would like some info on types of builds.

do you think i need the feats shield mastery and tower shield ?
also as a custom stat build from new what stats do you recommend on a 32 point build?

I would have chosen:-

Str 14
dex 12
con 14
wis 16
int 8
cha 14

But please advise me on what ois best or better? and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon? or what do you all think?


Many Thanks for replies:-)

Regards,

DrMoose.

You can lower wisdom to about 8 or 10 and still get it high enough to cast spells later on with Items.
Since you wear heavy armor, I would suggest dropping Dex to 8.
Put the extra points in str and con.

Yes...you should take the shield mastery feats...but only tower shield if you feel you can spare a feat.
Max out Vanguard tree and dabble in Defender and KOTC.

RD2play
11-07-2014, 08:45 AM
Yes...you should take the shield mastery feats...but only tower shield if you feel you can spare a feat.
Max out Vanguard tree and dabble in Defender and KOTC.

I would opt for UMD and scroll masters toutch for tower shield, this saves you a feat

Ralmeth
11-07-2014, 08:51 AM
do you think i need the feats shield mastery and tower shield ?
also as a custom stat build from new what stats do you recommend on a 32 point build?

Str 14
dex 12
con 14
wis 16
int 8
cha 14

But please advise me on what ois best or better? and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon? or what do you all think?

Hey there and welcome to your first Paladin! I've played and play tested Paladins off and on for probably much too long:) I'd like to make a few comments:

1) Whether you want to pick up tower shield and the shield mastery feats depends on whether you want to fight sword & shield or two handed...Though honestly I think a Paladin is best fighting with a sword and shield and taking advantage of the Vanguard enhancements. As for tower shield there is a bit of a trick you can use to avoid taking the feat...It's up to you whether you want to use it but you can get the tower shield feat essentially for free if you invest in your UMD score and then purchase Master's Touch scrolls from the portable hole (you have to teleport there with teleport scrolls, which you also need UMD for). That means at the start of any quest or after resting you have to remember to cast master's touch to grant you proficiency. It's a bit of a pain but it does save you a feat. Also, you won't be able to use a tower shield at the lower levels until you get your UMD higher.

2) A Paladin's ability to cast spells is based on their modified wisdom score, which includes all wisdom bonuses such as items. That means you can start wisdom at 8 and easily cast all of your spells by using a wisdom item. If you'd like to make your life easier and not have to use the best wisdom item you come across you could start wisdom at 10.

3) I would definitely start strength & charisma at 16. These are your two primary stats, and all level ups should go to strength. Con is also very important and I would start it at 14 as this is the most you can buy on a 1-for-1 basis. That leaves you with 6 points to spread between wisdom, int and dex. I would start dex at 8 or 10, wis at 8 or 10 and int at 10 or 12. To help you decide, think about what skills you want to use and whether you want to start int at 10 or 12. With a 10 int you will have 3 skill points per level after first and at 12 4 pts per level. The skills to think about picking up are as follows
-Heal: will make your cure spells better
-Concentration: will help prevent you from getting knocked out of casting a spell when hit
-Intimidate: will let you grab the attention or aggro of mobs nearby when used
-UMD: Access to lots of awesome scrolls at higher levels
-Balance: Will help against mobs that trip you
-Jump: Let's you jump higher which is always helpful

Personally I would max out concentration, intim and UMD, with extra points mixed between the others (go for balance first at low levels). Though if you don't want to use intim and/or UMD then distribute those points to the other skills.

Hope that helps!

Drmoose
11-07-2014, 09:16 AM
Thanks All Very Much for your own inouts and will give it some thought.

Regards,

DrMoose:-)








do you think i need the feats shield mastery and tower shield ?
also as a custom stat build from new what stats do you recommend on a 32 point build?

Str 14
dex 12
con 14
wis 16
int 8
cha 14

But please advise me on what ois best or better? and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon? or what do you all think?

Hey there and welcome to your first Paladin! I've played and play tested Paladins off and on for probably much too long:) I'd like to make a few comments:

1) Whether you want to pick up tower shield and the shield mastery feats depends on whether you want to fight sword & shield or two handed...Though honestly I think a Paladin is best fighting with a sword and shield and taking advantage of the Vanguard enhancements. As for tower shield there is a bit of a trick you can use to avoid taking the feat...It's up to you whether you want to use it but you can get the tower shield feat essentially for free if you invest in your UMD score and then purchase Master's Touch scrolls from the portable hole (you have to teleport there with teleport scrolls, which you also need UMD for). That means at the start of any quest or after resting you have to remember to cast master's touch to grant you proficiency. It's a bit of a pain but it does save you a feat. Also, you won't be able to use a tower shield at the lower levels until you get your UMD higher.

2) A Paladin's ability to cast spells is based on their modified wisdom score, which includes all wisdom bonuses such as items. That means you can start wisdom at 8 and easily cast all of your spells by using a wisdom item. If you'd like to make your life easier and not have to use the best wisdom item you come across you could start wisdom at 10.

3) I would definitely start strength & charisma at 16. These are your two primary stats, and all level ups should go to strength. Con is also very important and I would start it at 14 as this is the most you can buy on a 1-for-1 basis. That leaves you with 6 points to spread between wisdom, int and dex. I would start dex at 8 or 10, wis at 8 or 10 and int at 10 or 12. To help you decide, think about what skills you want to use and whether you want to start int at 10 or 12. With a 10 int you will have 3 skill points per level after first and at 12 4 pts per level. The skills to think about picking up are as follows
-Heal: will make your cure spells better
-Concentration: will help prevent you from getting knocked out of casting a spell when hit
-Intimidate: will let you grab the attention or aggro of mobs nearby when used
-UMD: Access to lots of awesome scrolls at higher levels
-Balance: Will help against mobs that trip you
-Jump: Let's you jump higher which is always helpful

Personally I would max out concentration, intim and UMD, with extra points mixed between the others (go for balance first at low levels). Though if you don't want to use intim and/or UMD then distribute those points to the other skills.

Hope that helps!

unbongwah
11-07-2014, 09:48 AM
and also what type of build should i go for if i want to use shields and a single weapon?
This build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/450766-New-player-looking-for-(rather-specific)-builds?p=5462156&viewfull=1#post5462156) is my recommendation for someone looking for a first-life F2P pally. She uses 2H weapons for the first several levels, then switches to S&B in the mid-to-late teen lvls. I recommend this approach because I think 2H weapons are better DPS early on while the defensive benefits of S&B are unnecessary most of the time; plus you don't have a lot of APs to spend at lower lvls, and I would rather focus on two PrEs (KotC and SD) rather than having to spread them around all three. At higher lvls, S&B gradually becomes better, in large part because of the higher-lvl core enhs in Vanguard.

Should you wish to play S&B the entire time, it's mostly a matter of rearranging feats to take the Shield Mastery feats ASAP and backloading the THF chain.

Ralmeth
11-07-2014, 10:34 AM
This build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/450766-New-player-looking-for-(rather-specific)-builds?p=5462156&viewfull=1#post5462156) is my recommendation for someone looking for a first-life F2P pally. She uses 2H weapons for the first several levels, then switches to S&B in the mid-to-late teen lvls. I recommend this approach because I think 2H weapons are better DPS early on while the defensive benefits of S&B are unnecessary most of the time; plus you don't have a lot of APs to spend at lower lvls, and I would rather focus on two PrEs (KotC and SD) rather than having to spread them around all three. At higher lvls, S&B gradually becomes better, in large part because of the higher-lvl core enhs in Vanguard.

Should you wish to play S&B the entire time, it's mostly a matter of rearranging feats to take the Shield Mastery feats ASAP and backloading the THF chain.

That build definitely works & THF at low levels is pretty awesome. Though I think it is very viable now with the Vanguard tree to start out S&B and go that route the whole way while leveling. Personally I'm not sold on spending all of those feats in THF & bastard sword on a pure Paladin...I'd much rather have stunning blow, and quicken at higher levels. Another feat progression to consider for a new Paladin would be:

Human bonus feat: Improved Shield Bash
1st: Power Attack
3rd: Stunning Blow
6th: Shield Mastery
9th: Improved Crit - Slashing
12th: Improved Shield Mastery
15th: Improved Sunder (to help with your stunning blow DC)
18th: Quicken

unbongwah
11-07-2014, 10:41 AM
There's also a pretty good case for SWF+orb pure pally: you can't use / benefit from Vanguard and you can't take the THF feats as well; but you still get the doublestrike bonuses from Shield Mastery (for now) and the atk speed bonuses from SWF. The main downside is you're nearly as feat-starved as a regular S&B build.

Caprice
11-07-2014, 12:24 PM
Personally I'm not sold on spending all of those feats in THF & bastard sword on a pure Paladin...I'd much rather have stunning blow, and quicken at higher levels.
I've never found Stunning Blow to be reliable on a new character without a serious gear investment into Tactics DCs, which could be hard for a new player. However my bias may be just because I mainly run on Heroic Elite where the monsters have much higher saves. What content have you been able to make it work in reliably without gear and PLs contributing? Fortunately Vanguard's "Brutality" gives a +3 DC for Stunning Blow, so now Paladins get at least a little help with Tactics DCs.

Ralmeth
11-07-2014, 05:15 PM
I've never found Stunning Blow to be reliable on a new character without a serious gear investment into Tactics DCs, which could be hard for a new player. However my bias may be just because I mainly run on Heroic Elite where the monsters have much higher saves. What content have you been able to make it work in reliably without gear and PLs contributing? Fortunately Vanguard's "Brutality" gives a +3 DC for Stunning Blow, so now Paladins get at least a little help with Tactics DCs.

I've gotten it to work just fine without any Fighter past lives, uber gear, and I tend to run Heroic Elites up to around 16-17th level quests or so, and then Heroic and Epic Hards from then on out. The issue is that you have to work on your DCs. Specifically:
1) Obviously, max out strength (like starting at 16, but all level ups to strength) and charisma (for divine might's bonus to strength).
2) Level up your Cannith crafting, and craft yourself a shield with a stunning bonus on it. You can craft up to +8.
3) Run the House C challenges and get yourself the Spare Hand belt, or the Eveningstar challenges for the Bear Cloak, which have exceptional combat mastery bonuses which stack with a stunning item (up to +5 for the belt, +6 for the cloak).
4) Take and use Improved Sunder if you find your stunning blow isn't landing. This is essentially a +3 bonus if you use it first before a stunning blow attempt. While leveling up, at different points I needed to use this on certain mobs.
5) Take and use the stunning enhancement bonus in Vanguard. I had splashed a couple of Fighter levels in my most recent Paladin for the tactic bonus enhancement in Kensai, but now that +3 is available in Vanguard you could go pure instead if you want.
6) In epic levels, us the LD tactics bonus twist if not running in LD.
7) In epic levels, you can take the Tactics epic destiny feat for another +2.

Hope that helps:)

Drmoose
11-11-2014, 07:27 AM
Thanks to all of your advice..

Ok I think I will go for a human pally build for the extra feat and start with the stats on a 32 point build of:

Str 16
dex 10
con 14
int 12
wiz 8
cha 16

will put points into umd so i can use the masters touch to get tower shield profiency also will use shield and will go for a bastard sword or does anyone think of another single handed weapon good for a pally?

Next Big question is what path do i take? any ideas on this or hints? i guess pally's are intimi tanks but must be able to fight as well yes? plus give healing to others? is this the healing path? or go the pure fighter path?

Your next advice would be very good as I will be starting at level 7 as a new toon.

Many Thanks.

Dr.Moose:-) Thelanis server Guild lvl 66 Urban Badger Collective :-)

EllisDee37
11-11-2014, 07:37 AM
Don't take any of the preset paths. Create a custom build.

Ralmeth
11-11-2014, 10:25 AM
Your stat spread looks good. As for what weapon to use, if you don't want to use a bastard sword, then scimitar or rapier work well as free weapons. Khopesh is also nice, but costs a feat. If you want to use a bastard sword, then you will want to invest in all of the two-handed fighting feats so that you will get splash damage to all nearby targets. This is a special rule for bastard sword and dwarven axe only. Personally, I usually use scimitar or rapier because I'm cheap like that;)

As for a path, do NOT take a path. These are not designed well and they will have you make bad decisions. Definitely pick the custom option, which will allow you to select the skills & feats that you want.

Caprice
11-11-2014, 11:00 AM
I've gotten it to work just fine without any Fighter past lives, uber gear, and I tend to run Heroic Elites up to around 16-17th level quests or so, and then Heroic and Epic Hards from then on out. The issue is that you have to work on your DCs. Specifically:
[..good specifics]
Hope that helps:)
I am more used to having Stunning Blow on a THF (or Stunning Fist on a Monk) and with just the one weapon slot for those setups giving up a damage effect for Stunning is a bit more of a bother than on a Vanguard who has the shield available for enchantments as well. That definitely makes it easier to fit in.

However I guess I file those mentally under "significant gear investment". Admittedly that is only 2 slots so my wording is an exaggeration, but not everyone has easy access to those sources of gear. Crafting Stunning up to +6 isn't too bad (+4 @25, +6 @35), but +8 requires Elemental 63 and that's not quite trivial to get to. Certainly I wouldn't expect someone new to the game to be able to swing that, and even established players often skip crafting. Fortunately the Stunning shards are all available Unbound but again a newer player may not have any good connections to ask for assistance, and shard availability on the AH seems to be abysmal on the servers I've played on and prices are often a bit ridiculous as well.

Challenges are also a bit of an edge case. I do lots of them myself and have a collection of Spare Hand belts already, but they don't seem to be well liked by the population in general and since it is P2P content lots of players may not do them at all. I also tend to have a lot of effects competing for the belt slot since CON, False Life, and Speed all go there too, and until you get to higher levels where you get multiple high quality effects per item, fitting it all in can be challenging.

So I guess we more or less agree on what it takes to use Stunning Blow effectively but view that a bit differently. ;-) I think that those details should be included in every suggestion to take the Stunning Blow feat, since otherwise it may not be that useful.

unbongwah
11-11-2014, 11:37 AM
Ok I think I will go for a human pally build for the extra feat and start with the stats on a 32 point build of:

Str 16
dex 10
con 14
int 12
wiz 8
cha 16
On a 32-pt build, I would probably start either 16/8/16/10/8/16 or 17/8/14/8/8/17; how much you put into INT really depends on how many skills you want to max out.

Inoukchuk
11-11-2014, 11:43 AM
I am more used to having Stunning Blow on a THF (or Stunning Fist on a Monk) and with just the one weapon slot for those setups giving up a damage effect for Stunning is a bit more of a bother than on a Vanguard who has the shield available for enchantments as well. That definitely makes it easier to fit in.

However I guess I file those mentally under "significant gear investment". Admittedly that is only 2 slots so my wording is an exaggeration, but not everyone has easy access to those sources of gear. Crafting Stunning up to +6 isn't too bad (+4 @25, +6 @35), but +8 requires Elemental 63 and that's not quite trivial to get to. Certainly I wouldn't expect someone new to the game to be able to swing that, and even established players often skip crafting. Fortunately the Stunning shards are all available Unbound but again a newer player may not have any good connections to ask for assistance, and shard availability on the AH seems to be abysmal on the servers I've played on and prices are often a bit ridiculous as well.

Challenges are also a bit of an edge case. I do lots of them myself and have a collection of Spare Hand belts already, but they don't seem to be well liked by the population in general and since it is P2P content lots of players may not do them at all. I also tend to have a lot of effects competing for the belt slot since CON, False Life, and Speed all go there too, and until you get to higher levels where you get multiple high quality effects per item, fitting it all in can be challenging.

So I guess we more or less agree on what it takes to use Stunning Blow effectively but view that a bit differently. ;-) I think that those details should be included in every suggestion to take the Stunning Blow feat, since otherwise it may not be that useful.

Stunning blow is worth the investment. It's still tough on a first lifer though, no tomes, lower stats, lacking equipment, no ftr PLs.... all add up. You have to make a decision on whether the DC will be good enough to warrant the feat, effort, and investment. My instinct is that on a first life toon the answer is no.

Also, I recommend playing this guy to about level 23... those first few epic levels fly by, this will let you start working up an epic destiny. Then TR to get the PL and build pts. On your second life I would worry more about farming epic destinies, now that you have a first life under your belt and some gear, money, crafting skills (assuming you don't have another crafter already), etc.

unbongwah
11-11-2014, 01:09 PM
One incentive to picking up Stunning Blow on a Vanguard build, even if your DCs are lackluster, is Follow Up: "When you hit with activated stunning attack (e.g. Stunning Blow or Stunning Shield), your Melee Power increases by [3/6/9] points for 12 seconds, regardless if enemy stunned." So even if you fail to proc a stun, you get a DPS buff regardless.

Were I to make a more tactics-oriented pally tank, I would consider dwarf or BF for the tactics enhs; I would probably also skip the THF chain and plan to use Mornh instead.

Ralmeth
11-11-2014, 06:30 PM
I am more used to having Stunning Blow on a THF (or Stunning Fist on a Monk) and with just the one weapon slot for those setups giving up a damage effect for Stunning is a bit more of a bother than on a Vanguard who has the shield available for enchantments as well. That definitely makes it easier to fit in.

However I guess I file those mentally under "significant gear investment". Admittedly that is only 2 slots so my wording is an exaggeration, but not everyone has easy access to those sources of gear. Crafting Stunning up to +6 isn't too bad (+4 @25, +6 @35), but +8 requires Elemental 63 and that's not quite trivial to get to. Certainly I wouldn't expect someone new to the game to be able to swing that, and even established players often skip crafting. Fortunately the Stunning shards are all available Unbound but again a newer player may not have any good connections to ask for assistance, and shard availability on the AH seems to be abysmal on the servers I've played on and prices are often a bit ridiculous as well.

Challenges are also a bit of an edge case. I do lots of them myself and have a collection of Spare Hand belts already, but they don't seem to be well liked by the population in general and since it is P2P content lots of players may not do them at all. I also tend to have a lot of effects competing for the belt slot since CON, False Life, and Speed all go there too, and until you get to higher levels where you get multiple high quality effects per item, fitting it all in can be challenging.

So I guess we more or less agree on what it takes to use Stunning Blow effectively but view that a bit differently. ;-) I think that those details should be included in every suggestion to take the Stunning Blow feat, since otherwise it may not be that useful.

These are good points, and worth pointing out for a new player, so I appreciate you bringing this up:) Stunning blow is awesome and is worth the investment, but it will be an investment...It is something for a new player to think about and it may be more appropriate for a 2nd or later life:)

unbongwah
11-11-2014, 09:10 PM
BTW, does anyone know if the DC bonus from PDK Cormyrean Knight Training applies to Vanguard abilities like Stunning Shield and Shield Charge?