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Bloodskittle
11-05-2014, 12:04 AM
After the PRR/MRR changes it seems only logical that arcanes spend a little bit of time attempting to become durable. The general aim of this build is to make a sorc that can withstand Epic Elite combat without hopping around like a lunatic, that said hopping around like a lunatic is still probably a good idea it's just that when you inevitably get hit your hp isn't totally wiped out. There are other methods to doing this that don't sacrifice quite so many sorc levels, however 17 sorc is more or less enough, though you miss out on level 9 spells you gain the paladin defensive stance which equals +25 PRR and +20% hp which seemed significant enough for me to theorycraft the build out.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Blastskittle
Level 28 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(3 Paladin \ 17 Sorcerer \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 388
Spell Points: 2033
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 16
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 12 14
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 18 21
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 6 8
Charisma 16 29

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -1 3
Bluff 3 17
Concentration 8 39
Diplomacy 3 18
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 17
Heal -2 7
Hide -1 3
Intimidate 3 20
Jump 1 5
Listen -2 7
Move Silently -1 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 20
Search 2 11
Spellcraft 6 37
Spot -2 7
Swim 1 0
Tumble n/a 8
Use Magic Device 5 28

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer


Level 2 (Sorcerer)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Sorcerer)


Level 5 (Sorcerer)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 16 (Sorcerer)


Level 17 (Sorcerer)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Fire


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Repair
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Light Armor Proficiency (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Guard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Heat Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Item Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)




All feedback is welcomed and encouraged, due to my inexperience with Arcanes there is probably quite a lot of room for improvement.

See "Revised Resilient Toaster" for continued discussion please.

mezzorco
11-05-2014, 04:46 AM
All feedback is welcomed and encouraged, due to my inexperience with Arcanes there is probably quite a lot of room for improvement.

I'm not experienced either, but first thing that comes to mind is replace warforged with bladeforged. +2 CHA, cheap heals, no alignment change required, no +1 lesser heart required. :)

Bloodskittle
11-05-2014, 05:39 AM
That'd be great and all but I don't own Bladeforged or I'd have built it with Bladeforged in mind.
However this would translate easily to Bladeforged, just give it a bit more Charisma and maybe slightly less INT or STR

AtomicMew
11-06-2014, 02:26 AM
Go for 4 paladin for +6 con and 10% movement speed APs.

If you aren't going for level 9 spells, might as well go for 2 FvS splash for the DPS synergy.

Far too many points into into racial trees. Max out inscribed armor and skip the rest. Construct toughness does almost nothing.

Pick up eldritch knight spellsword instead of light armor proficiency.

Skip heat death. It's actually a little bit extremely terrible.

Bladeforged > warforged.

Skip the SLAs. It just increases the amount of buttons you need to keep track of and adds less DPS than other options.

Pick up hellball. It's essential on an end game caster build.

Bloodskittle
11-06-2014, 03:40 AM
Go for 4 paladin for +6 con and 10% movement speed APs.

If you aren't going for level 9 spells, might as well go for 2 FvS splash for the DPS synergy.

Far too many points into into racial trees. Max out inscribed armor and skip the rest. Construct toughness does almost nothing.

Pick up eldritch knight spellsword instead of light armor proficiency.

Skip heat death. It's actually a little bit extremely terrible.

Bladeforged > warforged.

Skip the SLAs. It just increases the amount of buttons you need to keep track of and adds less DPS than other options.

Pick up hellball. It's essential on an end game caster build.

The extra pal level isn't a bad idea will consider it. I toyed with the idea of using FVS And it does look potentially worthwhile, the only useful spell for the build in level 8 spells that would be missed by going 14/4/2 Sorc/Pal/Fvs would be Otto's dance. You do lose some caster levels and spell DCs too which might prove harmful, would need to play test this to be sure.

For the most part the enhancements shouldn't really be considered to closely as they are the easiest to swap around and the most subject to change, however I do appreciate your point about spellsword, I didn't realise that it had the 5% arcane spell failure reduction.

Bladeforged V. Warforged has already been addressed, everything about the build would only require very minor tweaking to apply to Bladeforged, I simply don't own it or I would have built it with Bladeforged in mind.

I have played two Sorc lives to 28 and a number of Epic Past lives using Sorcerer, Hell Ball uses far too much Sp, doesn't do enough damage, Has too long a cool down and is generally pretty lame and not worth having in my opinion, it simply does not get enough use.

You pointed out that the fire sav SLA's are not worth having, and yes scorch and burning hands are pretty useless by level 20+ However the fireball, being that it metamagics for free, has a relatively short cool down and is very cheap to cast lends it self to being used in a spam heavy manner coupled with Delayed Blast Fireball and regular Fireball, for spinning through EXP farms quickly this SLA is absolutely ideal, the damage though not amazing like energy burst is quite decent especially for its fuel economy compared to other spells.

All that said I will write up a newer version of the build with some of your points in mind.

Bloodskittle
11-06-2014, 04:28 AM
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Blastskittle
Level 28 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(4 Paladin \ 14 Sorcerer \ 2 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 395
Spell Points: 2113
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 28
Reflex: 19
Will: 23

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 11
Dexterity 8 11
Constitution 20 23
Intelligence 12 15
Wisdom 6 9
Charisma 16 31

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -1 3
Bluff 3 18
Concentration 9 40
Diplomacy 3 19
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 18
Heal -2 7
Hide -1 3
Intimidate 3 21
Jump -1 3
Listen -2 7
Move Silently -1 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 15
Search 1 10
Spellcraft 5 36
Spot -2 7
Swim -1 -2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 29

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer


Level 2 (Sorcerer)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Sorcerer)


Level 5 (Sorcerer)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Prodigy


Level 16 (Favored Soul)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Fire


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Skill Focus (Arcane)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Spellsword: Acid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)






Unfortunately I was unable to fit in some of the Enhancements I usually like to pick when playing a sorc, the fireball SLA being one of them however the revised build does actually look set to potentially be more dps than my previous layout thanks in no small part to the feedback received. The build is still subject to some revisions especially in the feat department but I think this layout will prove more effective overall.

Note that I took spellcraft as the Last ED Feat, this is because I do not like hellball, bots are immune to Hold monster and severall other mind affecting spells anyway so a harper pin is all thats required to deal with whats left, hence i didn't take forced escape and I chose the extra +5 Spell power for a tiny dps increment over what would have been an insubstantial increase to the ability to reconstruct which is easy enough as it is.

Once again feedback is welcome, in my responses I usually attempt to justify why I have done something but I welcome the discussion as it will help hone the build into something really worthwhile.

Scrutiny over the enhancements for this rendition of the build will be greatly valued as I am unsure how to get the most out of the level split at this time.

majorhavoc
12-11-2014, 07:52 PM
My version of Roaster of Resilience


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

ToR
Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 18 Sorcerer \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 546
Spell Points: 2378
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 31
Reflex: 20
Will: 25

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 15
Dexterity 6 13
Constitution 20 29
Intelligence 12 19
Wisdom 6 13
Charisma 18 34

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -2 6
Bluff 4 22
Concentration 5 45
Diplomacy 4 22
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 4 22
Heal 2 20
Hide -2 6
Intimidate 4 25
Jump -1 7
Listen -2 11
Move Silently -2 6
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 26
Search 1 15
Spellcraft 1 40
Spot -2 11
Swim -1 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 6 28

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (1): Magic Missile
Spell (1): Protection from Evil


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Spell (1): Jump


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (1): Master's Touch


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Spell (2): Blur


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (2): Scorching Ray


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Spell (3): Chain Missiles


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Spell (2): False Life
Spell (3): Haste


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Knock
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Bestow Curse


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (3): Fireball
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Spell (5): Teleport


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Reconstruct


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Dismissal
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (7): Protection from Elements, Mass
Spell (8): Incendiary Cloud


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+5)


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Elemental Persistence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Power of Force (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Spellsword: Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Spellsword: Acid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Light Armor Proficiency (Rank 1)

thesnoman
12-11-2014, 11:38 PM
Once again feedback is welcome, in my responses I usually attempt to justify why I have done something but I welcome the discussion as it will help hone the build into something really worthwhile.


I'm not sure how anyone justifies Adamantine Body on a WF Sorc of any kind. You're feat starved as it is, why would you burn a feat on one as useless as Adamantine Body.

Why Adamantine Body is USELESS on a Sorc Build:

You're forced to use Enhancements AND a blue slot to reduce your ASF from 35% to 0%
Your max Dex bonus is 1
Since your DODGE bonus is capped by your DEX bonus, it's also capped at 1
I have to repeat that you still have to spend a valuable feat on Adamantine Body to begin with.


About Dodge bonus:

Currently my Sorc has a Dodge bonus of 25%
25% dodge means that 1/4 of damage is automatically dismissed because you don't get hit 25% of the time.
Adamantine Body limits your Dodge Bonus to 1%

PRR vs and with Dodge Bonus
You need approx. 35 PRR/MRR to mitigate 25% of damage. (This is relatively easy to get on any toon, including my toon with 25% dodge) To mitigate 50% (Equivalent to 25% dodge and 35 PRR/MRR) you need 100 PRR/MRR (I haven't really looked into how difficult/easy this is to get with Adamantine Body - perhaps someone could shed some light on this)
My basic math says that 25% Dodge + 30 PRR/MRR > Adamantine Body +30 PRR/MRR


EVASION
While your specific build does not have Evasion, many do (Rogue/Monk Splashes). Adamantine Body nullifies Evasion.

Divine Grace Changes

Pally splashed Sorcs will lose some of their appeal once the Divine Grace Nerf goes live (Thought it would be with U24, but the Devs have continued to extend our Grace Period [pun intended])
Once the Divine Grace Changes (NERF) go live, you will be limited to 2+3*Pally level to the bonus Divine Grace gives to your Saves

2 Pally = +8 to Saves
3 Pally = +11 to Saves
4 Pally = +14 to Saves.


Currently My BF Sorc has a Charisma bonus of 21 (52 Charisma). That's -13 to all saves on a /2 Pally and -7 on a /4 Pally. Really this is nothing to sneeze at and I'd reconsider Pally Splashing any Sorcerer Build at this time.



Enhancement-wise, you look like you're sacrificing a ton of power for defense.

In the AoV Tree you really should take 3x Just Reward to keep your blue bar up along with your 3x Scourge and 2x Smiting. The +30 Spell Power Boost is nice too and requires only 3 AP.

I'd take the first 4 WF Core feats for +2 Con and +75% Fortification

I'd probably figure out what I could dump from the Sacred Defender tree to make the above happen. I'd also lose 1x Toughness from EK (you only need 1xToughness and 3xBattlemage to get your second Core EK enhancement for 5% ASF).

I'd really have to look at your play style and which ED you're planning on as your primary to figure out if the feats you've selected will be adequate.

AtomicMew
12-12-2014, 12:10 AM
I'm not sure how anyone justifies Adamantine Body on a WF Sorc of any kind. You're feat starved as it is, why would you burn a feat on one as useless as Adamantine Body.

Why Adamantine Body is USELESS on a Sorc Build:

You're forced to use Enhancements AND a blue slot to reduce your ASF from 35% to 0%
Your max Dex bonus is 1
Since your DODGE bonus is capped by your DEX bonus, it's also capped at 1
I have to repeat that you still have to spend a valuable feat on Adamantine Body to begin with.


About Dodge bonus:

Currently my Sorc has a Dodge bonus of 25%
25% dodge means that 1/4 of damage is automatically dismissed because you don't get hit 25% of the time.
Adamantine Body limits your Dodge Bonus to 1%

PRR vs and with Dodge Bonus
You need approx. 35 PRR/MRR to mitigate 25% of damage. (This is relatively easy to get on any toon, including my toon with 25% dodge) To mitigate 50% (Equivalent to 25% dodge and 35 PRR/MRR) you need 100 PRR/MRR (I haven't really looked into how difficult/easy this is to get with Adamantine Body - perhaps someone could shed some light on this)
My basic math says that 25% Dodge + 30 PRR/MRR > Adamantine Body +30 PRR/MRR


EVASION
While your specific build does not have Evasion, many do (Rogue/Monk Splashes). Adamantine Body nullifies Evasion.

Divine Grace Changes

Pally splashed Sorcs will lose some of their appeal once the Divine Grace Nerf goes live (Thought it would be with U24, but the Devs have continued to extend our Grace Period [pun intended])
Once the Divine Grace Changes (NERF) go live, you will be limited to 2+3*Pally level to the bonus Divine Grace gives to your Saves

2 Pally = +8 to Saves
3 Pally = +11 to Saves
4 Pally = +14 to Saves.


Currently My BF Sorc has a Charisma bonus of 21 (52 Charisma). That's -13 to all saves on a /2 Pally and -7 on a /4 Pally. Really this is nothing to sneeze at and I'd reconsider Pally Splashing any Sorcerer Build at this time.



Enhancement-wise, you look like you're sacrificing a ton of power for defense.

In the AoV Tree you really should take 3x Just Reward to keep your blue bar up along with your 3x Scourge and 2x Smiting. The +30 Spell Power Boost is nice too and requires only 3 AP.

I'd take the first 4 WF Core feats for +2 Con and +75% Fortification

I'd probably figure out what I could dump from the Sacred Defender tree to make the above happen. I'd also lose 1x Toughness from EK (you only need 1xToughness and 3xBattlemage to get your second Core EK enhancement for 5% ASF).

I'd really have to look at your play style and which ED you're planning on as your primary to figure out if the feats you've selected will be adequate.


You're wrong on a number of fronts. Adamantine body lets you wear 30/60 DR shadowscale. This is a huge amount of defense which can't be quantified by a percentage comparison. It basically lets you face tank almost all EE bosses. My heavy armor pale master gets 130 PRR/74 MRR. MRR is extremely strong, because a lot of spells are not mitigated by relfex/evasion and are mitigated MRR. With MRR, I don't have to even care about my reflex save.

Importantly, it also isn't a large investment. Adamatine body requires a single feat and 4 AP plus 5 AP prereqs = 9 AP total. Blue slots are plentiful thanks to necropolis gear and using a blue slot is pretty negligible.

You are right that the paladin splash is losing its appeal, but the monk splash is not even on the map. The solution is NEITHER splash. There are other, much superior options.

Blackheartox
12-12-2014, 02:54 AM
If the point is to drop lv 9 spells, and dc casting then just go shiradi smthn.

Easier way to build would be something like 14 sorc 3 soul 3 palie or drop lv 7 spells and go for 13 or 12 sorc 3-4 soul and 3-4 palie whatever you preference is. /which you did
Or when dgrace nerf hits just skip on palie splash and go for pure bf sorc with adie body as feat

Feat wise shiradi giberish does not need focuses, your dcs will be so horrible that your slas wont ever hit anyways later in end gamish content and such a low min lv that it wont matter to cast em.
Rather go for toughnes epic toughnes mental toughnes line empower maximize quicken addie body, possibly wizzy plife for 10 more mm casts, completionist etc etc



Also pure sorc is alrdy more then survivable enough.
I hit on a pure human sorc in light armor earth savant in draconic 130 prr 50 mrr and 1100 hp with 15% dodge, in air savant its 18% dodge and with all the controled cc i have, i have yet to meet a single quest that provided any sort of issues to me.
Keep in mind that i have maxed dcs for a sorc on web mass hold disco/hold undead and other spells that outperform shiradi cc and ;)

Also hellball is a very good feat, no idea why you would skip on it

thesnoman
12-12-2014, 08:27 PM
You're wrong on a number of fronts.


Actually - I'm not - everything I said is perfectly true, including the fact that I didn't know how easy it was to get to 100 PRR/MRR



Adamantine body lets you wear 30/60 DR shadowscale. This is a huge amount of defense which can't be quantified by a percentage comparison.


You're right - simply because it's not a percentage reduction - it's a static number. It doesn't matter how much damage is dished out, you always take 30 off the top or 60 off the top if you're below 75% health.



Importantly, it also isn't a large investment. Adamatine body requires a single feat and 4 AP plus 5 AP prereqs = 9 AP total. Blue slots are plentiful thanks to necropolis gear and using a blue slot is pretty negligible.


Believe me - it's not the blue slots - it's the 9AP. 9AP really is a lot of points to invest to be able to cast at 0% ASF.



You are right that the paladin splash is losing its appeal, but the monk splash is not even on the map. The solution is NEITHER splash. There are other, much superior options.


See Mew here's where you and I totally disagree.
Pure Sorc is quite powerful.
Fire Savant/Shiradi with FvS is more powerful.
Adding in /2 Monk for 2 feats and Evasion is better than Pally. It is completely on the map as I find my monk splash Toaster to be more survivable than my /2 pally splash Toaster.

AtomicMew
12-12-2014, 10:26 PM
See Mew here's where you and I totally disagree.
Pure Sorc is quite powerful.
Fire Savant/Shiradi with FvS is more powerful.
Adding in /2 Monk for 2 feats and Evasion is better than Pally. It is completely on the map as I find my monk splash Toaster to be more survivable than my /2 pally splash Toaster.

And my sorcerer, with neither monk or paladin levels is even more survivable, thanks to heavy armor. With a wizard splash, I am also doing more DPS than you thanks to free maximize. I frequently solo farm EE WGU in the 23-24 minute range using ~3-4 pots. This was not possible with the monk splash build that I have in my sig (which is a bit outdated).

thesnoman
12-13-2014, 07:56 AM
And my sorcerer, with neither monk or paladin levels is even more survivable, thanks to heavy armor. With a wizard splash, I am also doing more DPS than you thanks to free maximize. I frequently solo farm EE WGU in the 23-24 minute range using ~3-4 pots. This was not possible with the monk splash build that I have in my sig (which is a bit outdated).

While you may think your sorc is more survivable (and it may be since you took human instead of WF, but I can't speak for that) it's mor about your perception than it is when you really look at the figures.

For the good of knowing the truth, I used my free feat swap, looked at the difference, and swapped back.

Using TF Docent, here's the math:

AC goes from 67 (composite) to 72 (Adamantine) - insignificant due to Dex Bonus on composite armor
PRR goes from 30 to 84 - meaning I go from 23% damage reduction to 45% damage reduction (+22%)
MRR goes from 30 to 67 - meaning I go from 23% damage reduction to 40% damage reduction (+17%)

Dodge goes from 27% to 3% (-24%)
Evasion is eliminated meaning the 50% or 100% DR from spells that can be evaded is eliminated

You get 30DR/Epic from the Docent, but when you do the math based on your setup of 130PRR/74MRR, (I'm not getting into the math on this one because it's a bit complicated), you are effectively only getting DR of 13 Physical and 18 Magic.

Power-wise: You get free maximize due to wizard levels...that's 50 Spell Power. I already have 460 Fire and 415 Force Spellpower (yes, I'm in Shiradi 80% of the time) and the additional 50 Spell Power, while not insignificant, is also not game breaking (it's about an 11% increase in Fire and 12% in Force for me. It's much more significant in my lesser cast spells like Disintegrate, Niac's and Eldar's 15-18%) .

In other words - you're not THAT much more powerful with free maximize.

As for you being able to run EE WGU in 23-24 minutes using 3-4 pots, good for you - I can run it in about 34-37 minutes using no pots with my 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Monk and composite armor.

AtomicMew
12-13-2014, 03:32 PM
Power-wise: You get free maximize due to wizard levels...that's 50 Spell Power. I already have 460 Fire and 415 Force Spellpower (yes, I'm in Shiradi 80% of the time) and the additional 50 Spell Power, while not insignificant, is also not game breaking (it's about an 11% increase in Fire and 12% in Force for me. It's much more significant in my lesser cast spells like Disintegrate, Niac's and Eldar's 15-18%) .

In other words - you're not THAT much more powerful with free maximize.

Maximize is 150 SP.


As for you being able to run EE WGU in 23-24 minutes using 3-4 pots, good for you - I can run it in about 34-37 minutes using no pots with my 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Monk and composite armor.

The point here was not to compare between me and other people, but my current build and my previous builds. My current build has the same or better defense... but MUCH higher DPS than my previous monk splash sorcerer.

thesnoman
12-13-2014, 04:19 PM
Maximize is 150 SP.

OK - I stand corrected. That does make a bigger difference.


The point here was not to compare between me and other people, but my current build and my previous builds. My current build has the same or better defense... but MUCH higher DPS than my previous monk splash sorcerer.

Point taken - do you have a link to your build. I'd like to see it and how you've splashed wizard into a Sorc build. I've debated doing it before, but I'd like to see it in action.

AtomicMew
12-19-2014, 04:24 AM
OK - I stand corrected. That does make a bigger difference.



Point taken - do you have a link to your build. I'd like to see it and how you've splashed wizard into a Sorc build. I've debated doing it before, but I'd like to see it in action.

I don't have a full write-up, I'm waiting for interesting content before TRing again... maybe U25? Currently playing a 10 sorc/8 wiz/2 FvS pale master flavor build, but it's more or less the same concept. Optimally, I would go for a 16 sorc/2 wiz/2 FvS bladeforged.

FranOhmsford
12-19-2014, 05:42 AM
Why Adamantine Body is USELESS on a Sorc Build:

Your max Dex bonus is 1
Since your DODGE bonus is capped by your DEX bonus, it's also capped at 1


About Dodge bonus:

Currently my Sorc has a Dodge bonus of 25%
25% dodge means that 1/4 of damage is automatically dismissed because you don't get hit 25% of the time.
Adamantine Body limits your Dodge Bonus to 1%

PRR vs and with Dodge Bonus
You need approx. 35 PRR/MRR to mitigate 25% of damage. (This is relatively easy to get on any toon, including my toon with 25% dodge) To mitigate 50% (Equivalent to 25% dodge and 35 PRR/MRR) you need 100 PRR/MRR (I haven't really looked into how difficult/easy this is to get with Adamantine Body - perhaps someone could shed some light on this)
My basic math says that 25% Dodge + 30 PRR/MRR > Adamantine Body +30 PRR/MRR


I've cut the above quote down to just the points about Dodge.

And I have one simple point to make:

With 25% Dodge Bonus you get hit 3 out of 4 times!

Yes that one hit that you dodged does do zero damage but the other 3 all hit for the full amount!

With the equivalent PRR however you get hit all four times but for much less damage per time!

When 3 out of 4 hits will one shot you there's virtually no point to having that one miss!
The PRR however removes the one-shot capability and allows you much more survivability!

thesnoman
12-20-2014, 10:01 AM
When 3 out of 4 hits will one shot you there's virtually no point to having that one miss!

With 900+ HP 3 out of 4 will not 1 shot me nor should any one hit it one shot anyone at level 28.

You also don't quite understand the math

I'm not saying that PRR is useless - I'm just saying that with diminishing returns, the investment in dodge and the investment in PRR over 30-35 is basically equal.

Sehenry03
12-20-2014, 01:01 PM
I've cut the above quote down to just the points about Dodge.

And I have one simple point to make:

With 25% Dodge Bonus you get hit 3 out of 4 times!

Yes that one hit that you dodged does do zero damage but the other 3 all hit for the full amount!

With the equivalent PRR however you get hit all four times but for much less damage per time!

When 3 out of 4 hits will one shot you there's virtually no point to having that one miss!
The PRR however removes the one-shot capability and allows you much more survivability!

Ok your flawed with this reasoning.

Yes 25% dodge means getting hit 3 out of 4 but NOT for FULL damage. Why in the world would I have 0 PRR just because I have max dodge? I have max dodge AND 60+ PRR so yes I get hit 1 less time out of 4 attacks AND I take less dmg from the other 3...kinda the best of both worlds?

Ancient
12-20-2014, 02:14 PM
I'm not saying that PRR is useless - I'm just saying that with diminishing returns, the investment in dodge and the investment in PRR over 30-35 is basically equal.
My in-game experience says your math is deeply flawed.

thesnoman
12-21-2014, 08:08 AM
My in-game experience says your math is deeply flawed.


That depends on how much PRR/MRR you have.

The discussion above was in regards to 80-ish PRR and 60-ish MRR. Up over 100 PRR/MRR and yes, it is better than Dodge + 35 PRR/MRR.


Now - if your in-game experience is with 80-ish PRR and 60-ish MRR with no dodge, then I again say that it's your perception.


I am going to try out a wiz splashed Sorc as AtomicMew has suggested above, just to see how well it plays. I'm working out enhancements before jumping in though.

Ancient
12-21-2014, 12:48 PM
That depends on how much PRR/MRR you have.

The discussion above was in regards to 80-ish PRR and 60-ish MRR. Up over 100 PRR/MRR and yes, it is better than Dodge + 35 PRR/MRR.


Now - if your in-game experience is with 80-ish PRR and 60-ish MRR with no dodge, then I again say that it's your perception.


I am going to try out a wiz splashed Sorc as AtomicMew has suggested above, just to see how well it plays. I'm working out enhancements before jumping in though.

I'm in the process of collecting the bits and pieces to write up my latest NovaSoul build. Switching from focusing on high dodge/saves to high PRR/MRR has let me solo stuff that I couldn't solo before. I still like wizard as the main class rather than sorc, but I anticipate that you will find there are a lot of benefits to the PRR/MRR route.

painkiller3
12-28-2014, 05:30 PM
I am going to try out a wiz splashed Sorc as AtomicMew has suggested above, just to see how well it plays. I'm working out enhancements before jumping in though.

Prr and paladin levels aside, look at 12 sorc\6 wiz\2 fvs with arcane supremacy and chain missiles SLA, fire savant 21 points for DOT, and just rewards goodies.

majorhavoc
01-07-2015, 10:49 PM
I'm in the process of collecting the bits and pieces to write up my latest NovaSoul build. Switching from focusing on high dodge/saves to high PRR/MRR has let me solo stuff that I couldn't solo before. I still like wizard as the main class rather than sorc, but I anticipate that you will find there are a lot of benefits to the PRR/MRR route.

Having played 24 Heroic lives & 12 epic lives on this tune (all of them as a Sorc 18 / 2 something else) I can say that Adamantine Body is WELL Worth getting. Tremendous improvement in serviceability, yes it requires a minor compromise in DPS output, but considering you spend less time waiting on a res, the total DPS may even be better over time.

I really like the 18 Sorc / 2 Pal splash, the huge Saves/PRR/MRR are amazing, but I cant use my Epic Litany of the Dead, which bugs the hell out of me.

Lately I have been running the last few lives as 18 Sorc / 2 Fav splash, and I am really liking it.

I have been considering 18 Sorc / 2 Wiz splash, I would like to see some feedback from others on it.

AtomicMew
01-10-2015, 04:41 AM
Prr and paladin levels aside, look at 12 sorc\6 wiz\2 fvs with arcane supremacy and chain missiles SLA, fire savant 21 points for DOT, and just rewards goodies.

This is a great and amazing idea as well. I prefer more sorc levels, as I like to dual spec fire and air savant for wings. If you dont' mind giving up wings, I agree that a deep wizard splash as above is probably the optimal current build.

AtomicMew
01-10-2015, 04:42 AM
Having played 24 Heroic lives & 12 epic lives on this tune (all of them as a Sorc 18 / 2 something else) I can say that Adamantine Body is WELL Worth getting. Tremendous improvement in serviceability, yes it requires a minor compromise in DPS output, but considering you spend less time waiting on a res, the total DPS may even be better over time.

I really like the 18 Sorc / 2 Pal splash, the huge Saves/PRR/MRR are amazing, but I cant use my Epic Litany of the Dead, which bugs the hell out of me.

Lately I have been running the last few lives as 18 Sorc / 2 Fav splash, and I am really liking it.

I have been considering 18 Sorc / 2 Wiz splash, I would like to see some feedback from others on it.

As I suggested, 16 sorc/2 wiz/2 FvS is the best of all worlds. :) Painkiller's suggestion above is good too.

richieelias27
01-10-2015, 09:27 AM
As I suggested, 16 sorc/2 wiz/2 FvS is the best of all worlds. :) Painkiller's suggestion above is good too.

Yeah, I dont see how 18sorc/wiz2 could possibly save more mana than Sorc/FvS 18/2. Also, I'd like to know how you are getting "Free" maximize. With double Maximize enhancements, Max still costs 7 extra SP.

In my eyes Sorc/FvS/Wiz 16/2/2 is the best if you dont care about level 9 spells (I imagine most dps minded Sorcs dont), and Sorc/FvS 18/2 is still significantly more efficient than just Sorc/Wiz 18/2 when using maximize. Especially when the Sorc/FvS can go into unlimited battery mode by turning off maximize and still spam spells like there's no tomorrow.

So, if you only want to splash 2 and efficiency is your only concern, FvS > Wiz

In the end I have to agree with:
Sorc/Wiz/FvS 16/2/2 being the best of all (but dont expect this to last. They'll fix the bug eventually and without notice)
Paladin levels are superfluous. All you need is heavy armor.

AtomicMew
01-10-2015, 04:14 PM
Yeah, I dont see how 18sorc/wiz2 could possibly save more mana than Sorc/FvS 18/2. Also, I'd like to know how you are getting "Free" maximize. With double Maximize enhancements, Max still costs 7 extra SP.

In my eyes Sorc/FvS/Wiz 16/2/2 is the best if you dont care about level 9 spells (I imagine most dps minded Sorcs dont), and Sorc/FvS 18/2 is still significantly more efficient than just Sorc/Wiz 18/2 when using maximize. Especially when the Sorc/FvS can go into unlimited battery mode by turning off maximize and still spam spells like there's no tomorrow.

So, if you only want to splash 2 and efficiency is your only concern, FvS > Wiz

In the end I have to agree with:
Sorc/Wiz/FvS 16/2/2 being the best of all (but dont expect this to last. They'll fix the bug eventually and without notice)
Paladin levels are superfluous. All you need is heavy armor.


Adding in a meridian fragment brings it down to 1 SP. If you're waiting for turbine to fix all the bugs, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Of all the current meta builds, maybe only paladin is WAI, all other meta builds are bugged in some form or another. And I really hope they don't nerf casters any time soon, because casters are vastly underpowered compared to the current melee line up.

richieelias27
01-11-2015, 07:59 AM
Adding in a meridian fragment brings it down to 1 SP. If you're waiting for turbine to fix all the bugs, you'll be waiting for a very long time. Of all the current meta builds, maybe only paladin is WAI, all other meta builds are bugged in some form or another. And I really hope they don't nerf casters any time soon, because casters are vastly underpowered compared to the current melee line up.

Certainly can't argue with that.

SilvanDDO
01-12-2015, 10:33 AM
Prr and paladin levels aside, look at 12 sorc\6 wiz\2 fvs with arcane supremacy and chain missiles SLA, fire savant 21 points for DOT, and just rewards goodies.

I have been playing different versions of the Sorc12-15/FVS 2-4/Monk 2 for several years now. Never really felt like I had it right until I took this tip and went 12SORC/6WIZ/2FVS. Deep splashing Wiz gives you Arcane Supremacy for Crits which really increases DPS significantly and the Missile SLA's which extend mana. I love Adamantine over Monk2 (evasion) it always felt wrong to me to be a monk splash. I miss the additional run speed and certainly Dodge a little but heavy armor caster is great fun and is better in EE, around the same in EH.

It is more of a play style decision but this is the most fun ive had playing the game as a caster. Shadow Guardian Armor at 28th is fantastic.
Shadow Guardian
DR 30/Epic
DR 60/Epic while below 75% health

Max Crits and Power on Force, Fire and Sonic and push Cold/Electric/Acid with red slots on Thunderforged Kama's along with the Meridian Stone + FVS/Arcane Maximize to bring it to 1SP or zero cost is a must. I do Quicken eff 3 on the arcane side with the crits and mana generation. You have to go up the Eld Knight tree to the 2nd core for the 5% and +10Force. The BF core through 2nd con and 15% arcane. I wanted to do the 6pts to get the additional PRR on the BF but didnt have the points to do that and 35% to wear heavy and Arcane Supremacy... Quickened Reconstruct & Sorc speed casting Quicken/Max Chain SLA+Chain+MM SLA w/(sometimes quickened always maxed) FM, MM, SR + Burst/Ruin/Hellball. Not really sure on most efficient rotation. Seems like CMSLA/CM/MMSLA/FM/SR or MM with Burst/Ruin/Hellball when they come up or timed when close range for Burst. I also have the Arcane MM past life feat to add to the chain for champs. No Empower or any of the Combat/Mobile casting. Never seem to have a problem, you have to jump around anyway as a caster.

Get all the Orchard Quest caster gear. I use the cord on the waist so I can go Fire/Force 150 on the Kama's and have 3 for Cold/Electric/Acid + Meridian Stone. I have not swapped in the Inferno Bracers because I like the +20 Crit on Force from the Sage Cuffs because I dont raid enough yet to finish the kama's. I still use the Cloak of Flames for Fire Crits as well as the Blasting Chime for Sonic Crits (although I question that.. would like advise if thats worth it). I stayed with max CHA instead of all INT... also may be a mistake because of the loss of reflex saves. I use both Insightful Reflexes and Force of Personality. I am 36pt build with past lives in wizx2 and fvsx1, originally a Nova Shiradi follower (thx).

I have 4/1/1 Twists so I use Fire Energy Burst, Reflex Save +6/Spot +6 and Fortitude +6 tier1. My saves are all 55+ but I would like my reflex higher.. may switch to Max INT to accomplish that. I use Ruin and Hellball.. wouldn't leave my guild ship without them, Epic Force/Toughness/Mental Toughness. This character is all about SP and Crits in Force/Fire/Sonic with backup dps from Cold/Electric on resistant mobs. Skills Concentration23, Spellcraft23, Repair23, Deplomacy (for queen which i have max at 10sec), Perform.

Thanks for the tips Nova Shiradi, Completionist Shiradi Done Right, then the Toaster threads but especially for this one on the deep splash wizzy which I should have thought of but didn't.

I never run out of mana and can do most EE solo although it takes a while and isn't really worth it (takes pots) other than the challenge of pulling it off once. Attempting to do the orchard 4 solo EE now (sort of my ultimate challenge), think i can pull most of those off solo EE, they are easy on EH except GOP which I cannot solo (any tips on brothers + beholder solo play let me know).

If you have any questions or suggestions let me know. If there is enough interest I may post the DDO planner for the build, but I think I typed enough information to sort it out. I don't pretend to be the greatest DDO player, but I am a mature player who is still having fun with the game.

AtomicMew
01-12-2015, 10:53 PM
Nice, good to know it's working out well. It's definitely a good suggestion by painkiller. I don't know if your gear setup, but I'd strongly suggest 3 piece abishai set and alchemical with arcane augmentation. With such low caster levels in both sorc and wiz SLAs, you'll really benefit. It also ups energy burst caster level as an added bonus.

SilvanDDO
01-13-2015, 02:41 AM
Nice, good to know it's working out well. It's definitely a good suggestion by painkiller. I don't know if your gear setup, but I'd strongly suggest 3 piece abishai set and alchemical with arcane augmentation. With such low caster levels in both sorc and wiz SLAs, you'll really benefit. It also ups energy burst caster level as an added bonus.

Cool to get a response from you AtomicMew I highly respect your opinion. I thought about this and it was one of the reasons I never did it. Then I worked out the math prior to watching it in action. I know crit % does not necessarily directly equate to it happening.

Here is approximately how my rotation goes with max on everything (because its 1sp cost):
8sec cooldown CM SLA 8sec 6@12th instead of 8 missiles@16th (25% less damage) or 5 base damage x 6 = 30 instead of 40 base
2sec cooldown CM = 30 instead of 40 base
2sec cooldown MM SLA @ (5 Max at 9th) @ 5 x 5 = 25 base
2sec cooldown MM @ (5 Max at 9th) @ 5 x 5 = 25 base
2sec cooldown CM = 30 instead of 40 base
So the rotation does around 140 instead of 170 or around a 17.6% damage loss if I time CM's perfect (which I never do). Its more like 15% the way I cast.

But the heavy damage often comes from these which are also affected by the additional Crit%:
6sec Hellball (reflex saves neg) max base 60x4=240 AOE
15sec Ruin = (no save) 500 base DD
30sec Energy Burst = (reflex saves .5) = Very BIG base AOE (burst is so much fun... worth all that Destiny grinding)


Arcane Supremacy +25% Crit <passive>/+100% for 12sec every 90sec or around 13% of the time 75% more so that is roughly like another 9.75% (12/90=.133 x 75%=9.75%) passive. Really its higher then that because of the time between combat. So I am getting minimum around +34.75% Crit all the time from Arcane Supremacy.

I also get Elemental and Force IV for another 2% with 6th wiz so the numbers increase to 36.75%

So (very roughly) I increase my damage x2 36.75% of the time (73.5% damage increase maximum if they always landed) in exchange for a loss of 17.6% damage from my CM/MM rotation. I know all the mobs are not hit by the crits and that % may not be entirely accurate but I can tell you from obvious first hand experience I do considerably more damage with Arcane Supremacy because of Crits then I did with those additional missiles from CM.
Yes I will proc more shiradi with more missiles but overall it works out to around the same loss/gain.

It's actually a bigger deal on EE then EH where those crits really help a ton with the fat HP mobs particularly with Hellball/Ruin/Burst (on mobs that are not resistant).

It's not worth it to me to muck my my Epic gear with Abashi or Augment items to get those missiles.

Arcane Supremacy is Supreme. Learned that with the Nova Shiradi build early on. So glad to have it back with this one.

I also take much less damage with the Shadow Heavy armor (Adamantine) vs Evasion (Monk). Particularly in EE.

Current Gear @28

Helm: Blue Dragon (Int Insightful 3)
Gloves: Con10/Dodge10 (will likely change these out now that my dodge is 1% max with epic fanged gloves and buy me 4pts off BF tree with 10% arcane failure reduction from fanged)
Goggles: Epic Glimpse of the Soul (Wis11, Saves, Deplo20, True Seeing, Ward)
Ring1: Epic Eye of the Beholder (Int11, Saves, 250Mana, Neg Energy Absorb, Absorb Doomsphere)
Ring2: Lantern (Wis Insightful 2, Light 144SP, Light Procs)
Wrist: Sages Cuffs (20force crit, 4 penetration), would like to trade out for Inferno Bracers but dont have raid upgraded Kama's for Force Crits
Trinket: Epic Blasting Chime (2Evoc, 16Sonic Crit)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Flames: (4IAC, 16Fire Crit, Fire Shield, Fire Absorb 10)
Waist: Epic Cord of Reprisals: (11CHA, 24 PRR, 20 Perf, Sonic 144SP, Soundproof, Roar)
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent: (11Saves, Speed, Greater Hero)
Neck: Mystic Eidolons (4Insightful Con/Dex, SumShadow, AugSum, Deathblock, Ghostly)
Docent: Shadowscale (Heavy w/Adamantine)
MainHand: Kama (150SP Force w/Meridian + Reconstruct 138SP)
OffHand: Kama (150SP Fire w/Glacation 138SP + Magnatism 138SP) (need raid upgrades for crit Force/Fire, perhaps 17% all + Searing Light)

Augments (outside of those mentioned in Kama's)
HP40
Arcane Failure 15%
Protection 8
Good Luck 2
True Imperial Blood 1E to all
Fear Immunity
Vitality 20
Repair 15
Dex 8
Str 8
Natural Armor 8
Cha 2Insightful
Blindness Immune
Feather Fall
Masters Gift

Ancient
01-13-2015, 02:56 AM
Nice, good to know it's working out well. It's definitely a good suggestion by painkiller. I don't know if your gear setup, but I'd strongly suggest 3 piece abishai set and alchemical with arcane augmentation. With such low caster levels in both sorc and wiz SLAs, you'll really benefit. It also ups energy burst caster level as an added bonus.

Any suggestions on how to get those? I hardly ever see LOB/MA and seem to have horrid luck with chronoscope drops.

AtomicMew
01-13-2015, 03:58 AM
Cool to get a response from you AtomicMew I highly respect your opinion. I thought about this and it was one of the reasons I never did it. Thanks ^^


Then I worked out the math prior to watching it in action. I know crit % does not necessarily directly equate to it happening.

Here is approximately how my rotation goes with max on everything (because its 1sp cost):
8sec cooldown CM SLA 8sec 6@12th instead of 8 missiles@16th (25% less damage) or 5 base damage x 6 = 30 instead of 40 base
2sec cooldown CM = 30 instead of 40 base
2sec cooldown MM SLA @ (5 Max at 9th) @ 5 x 5 = 25 base
2sec cooldown MM @ (5 Max at 9th) @ 5 x 5 = 25 base
2sec cooldown CM = 30 instead of 40 base
So the rotation does around 140 instead of 170 or around a 17.6% damage loss if I time CM's perfect (which I never do). Its more like 15% the way I cast.

I think these numbers are a bit wrong. CM SLA will cast at wizard caster level (6), not sorc caster level (12). Same story with MM SLA. Also, abishai + alchemical is +5 caster levels, so the difference is 3 missiles. This is how it worked last time I tested things out, but I never trust anything in DDO to work "as expected" so feel free to re-test these things. Also, don't forget abishai and alchemical bump up energy burst damage, which is also awesome. ;o



Current Gear @28

Helm: Blue Dragon (Int Insightful 3)
Gloves: Con10/Dodge10 (will likely change these out now that my dodge is 1% max with epic fanged gloves and buy me 4pts off BF tree with 10% arcane failure reduction from fanged)
Goggles: Epic Glimpse of the Soul (Wis11, Saves, Deplo20, True Seeing, Ward)
Ring1: Epic Eye of the Beholder (Int11, Saves, 250Mana, Neg Energy Absorb, Absorb Doomsphere)
Ring2: Lantern (Wis Insightful 2, Light 144SP, Light Procs)
Wrist: Sages Cuffs (20force crit, 4 penetration), would like to trade out for Inferno Bracers but dont have raid upgraded Kama's for Force Crits
Trinket: Epic Blasting Chime (2Evoc, 16Sonic Crit)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Flames: (4IAC, 16Fire Crit, Fire Shield, Fire Absorb 10)
Waist: Epic Cord of Reprisals: (11CHA, 24 PRR, 20 Perf, Sonic 144SP, Soundproof, Roar)
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent: (11Saves, Speed, Greater Hero)
Neck: Mystic Eidolons (4Insightful Con/Dex, SumShadow, AugSum, Deathblock, Ghostly)
Docent: Shadowscale (Heavy w/Adamantine)
MainHand: Kama (150SP Force w/Meridian + Reconstruct 138SP)
OffHand: Kama (150SP Fire w/Glacation 138SP + Magnatism 138SP) (need raid upgrades for crit Force/Fire, perhaps 17% all + Searing Light)t

I feel that this gear setup could use some tightening. First off, take a look at epic noxious embers (150 fire spellpower and 17% all crit). I don't feel that mystic eidolons is that good on a caster, and you can make up the HP loss with a greensteel. Balance of land and sky has +3 stacking resistances too. This way you can drop blasting chime, cloak of flames without loss of DPS.

AtomicMew
01-13-2015, 04:02 AM
Any suggestions on how to get those? I hardly ever see LOB/MA and seem to have horrid luck with chronoscope drops.

Chrono, you can up an in progress LFM and get your friends to join ;o. Beyond that, not sure as I've had the set for a long time. No advice on LOB/MA although you can solo these raids pretty easily if you really wanted to. It definitely is a PITA though.

SilvanDDO
01-13-2015, 04:25 AM
Thanks ^^



I think these numbers are a bit wrong. CM SLA will cast at wizard caster level (6), not sorc caster level (12). Same story with MM SLA. Also, abishai + alchemical is +5 caster levels, so the difference is 3 missiles. This is how it worked last time I tested things out, but I never trust anything in DDO to work "as expected" so feel free to re-test these things. Also, don't forget abishai and alchemical bump up energy burst damage, which is also awesome. ;o




I feel that this gear setup could use some tightening. First off, take a look at epic noxious embers (150 fire spellpower and 17% all crit). I don't feel that mystic eidolons is that good on a caster, and you can make up the HP loss with a greensteel. Balance of land and sky has +3 stacking resistances too. This way you can drop blasting chime, cloak of flames without loss of DPS.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. Very helpful.

Edit: For anyone caring to read this who might be interested. What I resolved from this was that Chain SLA & MM SLA are as AtomicMew said on the wizard line only 3 missiles with 6WIZ. So I will likely take them out of my rotation or only use them when low on mana. CM SLA is on an 8sec timer so it wasnt as big of a deal. I still cast CM (on a 2sec timer) with 6 @ 12 instead of 8 missiles @ 15/16. So my rotation goes on as before with CM/MM/FM/CM at a 25% loss of damage on CM and around a 15-17% loss overall on the chain. Since Chain SLA is on an 8 sec timer and I never had it before with Sorc 15/16 its not a loss but less gravy to deep splash 6Wiz unless you go the Abashi set + Augment route as Atomic suggested.

It hopefully wasn't lost that you still get 25% passive Crits to all and 100% for 12sec every 90sec with Arcane Supremecy in trade for a 25% loss on your CM. From personal experience this is certainly worth the trade, in particular with Ruin/Hellball/Burst and other spells you might cast that are affected by Crit%.

In addition my personal experience seems to demonstrate that the PRR/MRR gained from the Adamantine Feat with Shadow Armor Docent at 28 outweighs the Evade gained from Monk2. It is not the same until you hit 28 and have the upgraded Thunderforged Shadow Docent and are BF or WF. But the reduction in damage seems obvious to me even with the loss of Dodge from 27% to 1% (with Dodge feat and Gear I had with Monk2). So I effectively swapped the Dodge Feat for the Adamantine Feat to gain the Heavy Armor along with the 6pts up the BF tree which might be partially mitigated by the Vol Gloves which give you 10 of the 15% you need in addition to the 5% from EK (which I did anyway for the force 10) and 15% Blue Slot which was not a big deal for me with all the Slots from the Orchard gear but would be a bigger factor for someone trying to go the Abashi set route.

I also will be trying to get into the Abbott Raid to get the Epic Noxious Embers which seems far easier and more efficient then trying to get 30 Deathwyrm Raid Shadow Dragon Pholo to finish the Kama's, but time will tell. I saw a video of a Sorc on my server soloing Mark on EN so that's now a goal of mine. The points on the GreenSteel items are also completely valid for the HP and Stacking Saves. I always knew that but I hate Shroud. Once I get the Noxious Embers however that will be my first stop to replace the 3 items I only use for crits.

Thanks again for all the tips. I strongly encourage those Sorc/FVS/Monk's out there to try the deep splash 6Wiz in place of Monk2.

I also would like feedback about going all INT instead of CHA on lvl gains like Atomic has suggested in other threads and seems correct for Reflex saves and perhaps mana cap? Seems like an even stronger argument when you deep splash Wiz? Would give me more skill points as well which are useful for Balance/Deplo/Perform maxed. Not caring about DC's whats the loss by going all INT Sorc/Wiz instead of CHA on lvl gains? Ill do this next time I want to blow another $20 on DDO points.

BTW through all this testing I also determined that Quicken Spell is nearly worthless to me as a Sorc (it doesn't seem to make the MM rotation go much faster or speed up the SLA's anymore) and swapped it for Empower because I have to spend 6 on something other than Max to work up the Arcane Supreme tree and Empower + Max helps my DPS more in a boss fight when I can dump then Quicken + Max. Feedback on that as well is useful to me. I miss quicken reconstruct a little but not much.

Ancient
01-13-2015, 08:41 PM
Chrono, you can up an in progress LFM and get your friends to join ;o. Beyond that, not sure as I've had the set for a long time. No advice on LOB/MA although you can solo these raids pretty easily if you really wanted to. It definitely is a PITA though.

Thank you for the answers!

I tried epic MA (just once) and one of the two titans hits really hard, but I suppose I could try heroic and I've never even tried to solo LOB.

On the alchemical item, do you go with a shield or dual wield?

One last item, I'm not up to date on CM math and the wiki appears to be out of date. What casting level is needed to get max missiles: 19, 20 or other?

AtomicMew
01-14-2015, 02:07 AM
Thank you for the answers!

I tried epic MA (just once) and one of the two titans hits really hard, but I suppose I could try heroic and I've never even tried to solo LOB.

On the alchemical item, do you go with a shield or dual wield?

One last item, I'm not up to date on CM math and the wiki appears to be out of date. What casting level is needed to get max missiles: 19, 20 or other?

I'm not playing the 12/6/2 split, so I'm using thunderforged + libram.

For alchemical shields, you can do a light shield + crystal refinement for -10% ASF. Although who knows if the ASF reduction is stacking properly. Interestingly, you could also consider heavy shield + medium armor (or mithral body) for the 2x MRR boost. I could see this working out better than heavy armor in some cases.

SealedInSong
01-16-2015, 12:21 PM
I'm not playing the 12/6/2 split, so I'm using thunderforged + libram.

For alchemical shields, you can do a light shield + crystal refinement for -10% ASF. Although who knows if the ASF reduction is stacking properly. Interestingly, you could also consider heavy shield + medium armor (or mithral body) for the 2x MRR boost. I could see this working out better than heavy armor in some cases.

Helpful thread, thanks all.

Atomic, quick question:
The 2x MRR boost you're referring to comes from the heavy (or tower) shield, not from mithral/medium armor, correct?
http://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Resistance_Rating

In other words, Medium armors have no clear advantage over Heavy armor in the MRR department? I just wanted to clarify in case I'm missing something.

FranOhmsford
01-16-2015, 12:25 PM
Ok your flawed with this reasoning.

Yes 25% dodge means getting hit 3 out of 4 but NOT for FULL damage. Why in the world would I have 0 PRR just because I have max dodge? I have max dodge AND 60+ PRR so yes I get hit 1 less time out of 4 attacks AND I take less dmg from the other 3...kinda the best of both worlds?

A Character with Max Dodge is most likely wearing an outfit or robes and not using any sort of shield.

So exactly where do you get 60+ PRR from on that character?

Sehenry03
01-16-2015, 03:19 PM
A Character with Max Dodge is most likely wearing an outfit or robes and not using any sort of shield.

So exactly where do you get 60+ PRR from on that character?

Ok you'll have to forgive me if I mess up any named items or actual PRR number but here goes:

Dumathoins(?) Bracers +30
Bladeforged Enhancement +12
Imp Shield from EK tree +10
Circle of Malevolence +5
Monk Earth Stance +3

I think that adds to 60 and I believe that was my setup. Again I am at work will have to check when I get home.

Do I need corrected anywhere?

And no I don't use the same gear setup and my gear is not ideal but this is stuff I couldn't pass up because I could still keep my DC and damage numbers good

FranOhmsford
01-16-2015, 03:48 PM
Ok you'll have to forgive me if I mess up any named items or actual PRR number but here goes:

Dumathoins(?) Bracers +30
Bladeforged Enhancement +12
Imp Shield from EK tree +10
Circle of Malevolence +5
Monk Earth Stance +3

I think that adds to 60 and I believe that was my setup. Again I am at work will have to check when I get home.

Do I need corrected anywhere?

And no I don't use the same gear setup and my gear is not ideal but this is stuff I couldn't pass up because I could still keep my DC and damage numbers good

So you have to be a Bladeforged Earth Stance Monk with Wizard or Sorc levels then?

What can an actual Fleshy Monk in any of the other stances get as a reasonable number at Lvls 15,20,24 and 28?

Sehenry03
01-16-2015, 04:33 PM
I only took the first one. The best earth stance gives something like +15 and not really a huge deal.

Sehenry03
01-16-2015, 04:55 PM
So you have to be a Bladeforged Earth Stance Monk with Wizard or Sorc levels then?

What can an actual Fleshy Monk in any of the other stances get as a reasonable number at Lvls 15,20,24 and 28?

Well this whole build is based on being a toaster I just went with BF because they are better sorcs then WF. I never claimed being a fleshy would get the same PRR.

I would guess a fleshy PRR would be 12 lower but I have never looked at the fleshy enhancements to see if I could do better.

I just said I had 60PRR and Max Dodge which I managed.

FranOhmsford
01-16-2015, 09:09 PM
Well this whole build is based on being a toaster I just went with BF because they are better sorcs then WF. I never claimed being a fleshy would get the same PRR.

I would guess a fleshy PRR would be 12 lower but I have never looked at the fleshy enhancements to see if I could do better.

I just said I had 60PRR and Max Dodge which I managed.

I apologise...As my original point was perhaps going off topic for this specific thread.

BUT

I stand by my point in the general sense.

Dodge is a broken mechanic that gives more benefit to the guy with a good PRR/MRR score than the other way round!

Sehenry03
01-17-2015, 10:37 AM
I apologise...As my original point was perhaps going off topic for this specific thread.

BUT

I stand by my point in the general sense.

Dodge is a broken mechanic that gives more benefit to the guy with a good PRR/MRR score than the other way round!

Oh well this is 100% true.

But I have always thought Dodge/Blur/Displace were horrible systems for defense and did not have any long lasting benefits for the game. As a personal opinion I think the game is 100 times better off now with those going to the wayside. Evasion I am a bit skewed against. I don't mind it personally but it irritated the hell out of me that it was the only true defensive option for how many years? Most decent builds had either 2/6 monk or 2 rogue splashed and I HATE that you can splash 2 levels of anything and get that powerful of a benefit out of it. I am glad Heavy Armor has become so big and that evasion has been knocked back a few pegs simply because of that.

I wish they would implement a system that would stop a simple splashing for effects like this. I know I am in the minority here its just another crutch I think along with easy scroll healing and other things.

But yes...you are 100% correct Dodge is not nearly as good as it was before the last few updates.

Ancient
01-17-2015, 10:47 AM
Dodge is a broken mechanic that gives more benefit to the guy with a good PRR/MRR score than the other way round!

Layered defenses work that way, as they should and that is a good thing.