PDA

View Full Version : PM and AM Spell Like Abilities: useful or a waste?



redoubt
11-04-2014, 12:10 AM
Do you like them?

Do you find them useful? If yes, how do you use them and at what levels have you found them useful?

Background for my question.
I did a PM life on my main and I'm now working an alt the is a PM with enchant and necro spec (an 2 rogue for trap skills). My plan is AM core 4 for enervation and PM core 5 for lich.
In my previous life as a PM I found the SLAs to be very lacking due to no metamagic feats applying to them. I've tried to avoid them so far, but I can't get to 30AP spent in the PM tree to get core 5. The skeleton is largely considered a joke, so I've skipped that line. With not doing the SLA line, I don't see the use in the null-crit line. I've picked up everything else except cloak of night, which also seems to have dubious utility.

I've spent 26 AP so far in the tree.
Core 4. 4
deathless vigor 6
negative energy conduit 3
bone armor 3
enhanced quicken 6
INT x2. 4

Any suggestions on which I should take to get to the magic 30? Should I reconsider my position on the SLAs?

EllisDee37
11-04-2014, 12:13 AM
The only SLA I use is enervation from the AM cores, but I hear that the magic missile AM cores are also good for shirardi spammers.

The higher-tier "bolt" SLAs are garbage in both trees.

Lonnbeimnech
11-04-2014, 12:22 AM
Illusion focused.
phantasmal killer sla, phantasmal killer spell, FoD spell, wail, CoD, PWK, trap the soul... And the instakilling never stops.

Wh070aa
11-04-2014, 12:42 AM
They are kinda meh.
I use the extended haste (ftee knock and jump that comes with it), and sometimes the free extended Displacement(and invisibility/blurr).
It's noting but a free spell slot, and tad bit of spell point savings (allowing you to keep stuff up). Only reason to take them is to save like 10 to 20 spell points on buffs, and maybe save some money on scrolling invisibility.

But yea, I have never taken more than 3 cores, exempt for the stone to flesh when I was level 12, for the Medusa quest (which I could had just scrolled).

PM SLA's are ultra ****ing useless, only ting that is worth the points is the forms. All other stuff is filler.(3% healing amp? Pet stuff? Toggle that reduces your healing by 50%, (with no benefit, you might as well turn off form, and have BIGGER benefit). Spell crits, extra hp, and skeleton summon(not its upgrades) is nice tho. Also +1 Necro DC.Only thing really worth getting are forms.

Also the arcane bolt from archmage is as useless as PM stuff.

Eth
11-04-2014, 01:22 AM
Arcane Bolt/Blast are just as useless as Necrotic Bolt/Blast. Don't take them.
Why not the crit. line though? 8% crit. chance is a lot.
It helps your selfheals and Necrotic Ray is one of your best damage spells on a wizard (especially regarding damage/sp).

The skelly can be worth 2 points IMO, while leveling for the quests where you need a lever puller.

Portalcat
11-04-2014, 03:36 AM
Some of the specific AM core SLAs are incredibly good - ennervation (and the AM necromancy core line generally in undead-heavy content) for PM builds and magic missile + chain missile for shiradi wizards come to mind.

Most others are either outright forgettable or are stuck in archmage core lines that you wouldn't generally want to take. The arcane blast and necrotic blast lines are really poor.

fmalfeas
11-04-2014, 04:02 AM
Necrotic is better than arcane though. Fort save for half damage, vs Reflex for half (or, with how much evasion there is, and its DC...spell level 4, can't be heightened...so...no damage ever).

Meko99
11-05-2014, 04:44 PM
They are junk, absolute waste of space, 1d6 per level, is **** damage compared to litterly ANY OTHER damage spell out there.
I keep necrotic blast on the same bar as my past life sorcerer freebee spell, cause I wasted AP's to try out the PM cheap spells.

I use Necrotic ray like All the damn time, but that's an actual spell and not a PM enhancement. I have focused a ton of points and gear into maximizing my bonus to negative spell damage since it works on most things, and I still can't get them to be worth the time it takes to cast them. The most I ever got from necrotic blast was like 121 damage and that was a super crit, compared to necrotic ray which only costs 10sp and hits from 200 to 600 with a level drain effect.

Complete and utter waste of AP's. They don't do **** to heal your undead either, Death Aura, and Lesser Death Aura, heals over time, just Aura up, invis and jump around with your pet trying to pull aggro and you'll heal up quick enough as long as your not taking area damage.

Never tried the AM spells but they are all 1d6 same as the PM spells, and i've never been a fan of Force spells, they seem to be working against the philosphy that wizards should aim for a targets weakness to maximize the spells effect, Force spells are just attacking stuff at its strongest point. Armor and damage reduction. Far better off with elemental, positive, negative or untyped damage like disintigrate to bypass reductions.

Heck i've hit undead in level 17-20 dungeons with Disrupt Dead, yes that lowbie spell for 150 to 200 damage pretty consistently and still have yet to get the PM enhancements to hit above 100 except once in a blue moon.

Violith
11-05-2014, 06:47 PM
Do you like them?

Do you find them useful? If yes, how do you use them and at what levels have you found them useful?

Background for my question.
I did a PM life on my main and I'm now working an alt the is a PM with enchant and necro spec (an 2 rogue for trap skills). My plan is AM core 4 for enervation and PM core 5 for lich.
In my previous life as a PM I found the SLAs to be very lacking due to no metamagic feats applying to them. I've tried to avoid them so far, but I can't get to 30AP spent in the PM tree to get core 5. The skeleton is largely considered a joke, so I've skipped that line. With not doing the SLA line, I don't see the use in the null-crit line. I've picked up everything else except cloak of night, which also seems to have dubious utility.

I've spent 26 AP so far in the tree.
Core 4. 4
deathless vigor 6
negative energy conduit 3
bone armor 3
enhanced quicken 6
INT x2. 4

Any suggestions on which I should take to get to the magic 30? Should I reconsider my position on the SLAs?


null crit line is worth it, both for heals, as well as necro ray (which does good dmg for the SP cost) also. even the rank 1 skeleton night makes a useful lvr puller.

AtomicMew
11-06-2014, 02:28 AM
null crit line is worth it, both for heals, as well as necro ray (which does good dmg for the SP cost) also. even the rank 1 skeleton night makes a useful lvr puller.
Necrotic ray used to be one of my favorite spells. It's sad that it's just been outclassed by shiradi missile spam :/

Garix
11-06-2014, 03:00 AM
I'll offer a slightly differing point of view. At least as to the Necrotic SLA's. With one caveat. None of this applies to EE content.

I use all three of the Necrotic spells alot.

It's part of my standard spell rotation.

Instakill on any casters, gather everything else up and drop a Circle of Death followed by Wail. After that just keep spamming the Necrotic stuff. It's essential free damage. The minuscule amount of HP cost is easily covered by Death Aura, and saves my SP for more important things.

If speed is your thing then there are better ways of doing things, if you're not in a rush then its simple easy and cheap :)

Works for me on all Heroic Content and EN/EH.

Just wish the stuff could be heightened at the very least.

Such755
12-28-2014, 12:07 AM
The SLA you get from Pale master is ****.
It used to be nearly a mandatory thing for all pale masters, because of spare AP that you had nothing to do with.
Now there's way more valuable things than that. The damage it adds is insignificant, especially on epic content.

Arch Mage's SLAs on the other hand...
I use Web. Free to quicken and heighten, and it uses reflex save rather than fort. I find it extremely helpful and I will not give it up.

EllisDee37
12-28-2014, 12:34 AM
It used to be nearly a mandatory thing for all pale masters, because of spare AP that you had nothing to do with.It was never worth spending AP on. Before the enhancement pass you got them for free when you took PM prestiges. (Pale Master I gave the touch attack, Pale Master II the single target bolt, and Pale Master III the aoe blast.) That's why it's so crazy that the enhancement pass changed them from being free to costing 6 AP for the aoe blast. Totally nuts.


Arch Mage's SLAs on the other hand...
I use Web. Free to quicken and heighten, and it uses reflex save rather than fort. I find it extremely helpful and I will not give it up.Not those SLAs. The OP is asking about the force ones: Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast. Much like PM SLAs, they're useless because they can't be meta'd, and they are also too expensive. At least for these, you used to have to pay for them separately, so it's not like the enhancement pass started charging 6 AP for what you used to get for free. It's a little weird that they just randomly doubled the cost of the weaker one, so now it's 3 AP for both instead of 2 AP. But whatever, they always pretty much stunk.

LiquidZombie
12-31-2014, 05:14 AM
Before the enhancement pass you got them for free when you took PM prestiges. (Pale Master I gave the touch attack, Pale Master II the single target bolt, and Pale Master III the aoe blast.) That's why it's so crazy that the enhancement pass changed them from being free to costing 6 AP for the aoe blast. Totally nuts.

As I recall, under the previous system the first Pale Master became available at level 6, cost 4 AP out of the gate and gave only Necrotic Touch, 50 negative spellpower and a very weak skeleton (not even the Knight). You can have a fully upgraded Necrotic Touch in the new system for the exact same AP cost (4), or just the basic skeletal knight for only 3 AP, and both of these are available at level one. If you want just Zombie this will cost a bit more (6 AP), but you can still get this at level 3.

I don't recall how much PM II or PM III cost under the old system but I'll bet they were several AP each (2 or 4). So I don't really see that they have increased the AP cost of the SLAs so much as rebalanced the AP you would have previously spent on the PrE's themselves, giving you the choice whether to invest in the SLAs or the skeleton line.


Much like PM SLAs, they're useless because they can't be meta'd, and they are also too expensive.

I can't speak to the Archmage SLAs since I've never tried them, but I don't agree that the PM ones are completely useless, at least not while levelling. By the time you get to about level 10 your Necrotic Touch is going to be doing more damage than Chill Touch/Shocking Grasp, will continue to scale as you level, and is significantly cheaper to cast. The bolt and blast don't stack up well when compared to regular spells, but if you consider them as extra burst damage that can be cast essentially for free while Death Aura is active they can be useful during the midgame if you don't need mega DPS.

Of course once you hit epics they all become complete junk because almost everything has a sky-high fort save. Perhaps an enhancement to increase the DC of the PM/AM SLAs would be something they could add to the rather underwhelming Magister destiny.

EllisDee37
12-31-2014, 05:32 AM
As I recall, under the previous system the first Pale Master became available at level 6, cost 4 AP out of the gate and gave only Necrotic Touch, 50 negative spellpower and a very weak skeleton (not even the Knight). You can have a fully upgraded Necrotic Touch in the new system for the exact same AP cost (4), or just the basic skeletal knight for only 3 AP, and both of these are available at level one. If you want just Zombie this will cost a bit more (6 AP), but you can still get this at level 3.Nobody took the prestige line for the SLAs. You took the prestige because that was a prereq for undead form. In terms of what the prestige itself gave you, as opposed to the forms they unlocked, the primary value was the negative spell power and crit chance. The SLAs were an afterthought. Put it this way: If the SLAs were removed, you'd still take the prestige line. That's why the SLAs were considered free.

The old enhancements are still on ddowiki. You can see the PM prestige here (http://ddowiki.com/page/Wizard_enhancements_%28history%29#Prestige_Enhance ments).

phillymiket
12-31-2014, 05:38 AM
Junk.

Not worth the casting time in a tough fight.

You are far far better off splitting your AP between PM and AM and get whats good from both trees rather than waste AP on the weak bolts and blasts.

Such755
01-08-2015, 02:09 PM
Ah yes, I forgot you got the necro stuff for free. My bad.

Totally not worth it now.

DDOisFree
01-08-2015, 05:15 PM
Illusion AM SLAs are good.

The PK gives you an extra instakill, and is only 10 SP heightened, quickened, enlarged.

The invis, blur and displacement SLAs free up your level 2 and 3 spell slots, as you dont need to have those spells prepared anymore.