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Amundir
10-30-2014, 11:46 AM
Have a couple melee past lives under my belt now and fixing to start another. However never in any of my past lives did I try to accumulate armors that do different damages upon being hit.

So the question is, how worth it is it to try for these items vs other items? Especially for endgame.


EDIT: **** mispelled Defense, :(

unbongwah
10-30-2014, 03:03 PM
The problem with guard effects is they usually don't scale up in power. There are ways of boosting some of them: e.g., FvS w/Shield of Condemnation (light vulnerability) + Warpriest Light Guard + an armor with light guard effect; Swashbuckler's Sword Dance scales with Sonic Spellpower; Vanguard Shield Riposte scales with Melee Power. But overall they don't do enough DPS to be worthwhile, even on a hate-tank, IMHO. For me, the only interesting guard effects are defensive buffs like Displacement Guard or Earthen Guard; or the CC effects like Earthgrab Guard or Air Guard.

Tobril
10-30-2014, 03:15 PM
The problem with guard effects is they usually don't scale up in power. There are ways of boosting some of them: e.g., FvS w/Shield of Condemnation (light vulnerability) + Warpriest Light Guard + an armor with light guard effect; Swashbuckler's Sword Dance scales with Sonic Spellpower; Vanguard Shield Riposte scales with Melee Power. But overall they don't do enough DPS to be worthwhile, even on a hate-tank, IMHO. For me, the only interesting guard effects are defensive buffs like Displacement Guard or Earthen Guard; or the CC effects like Earthgrab Guard or Air Guard.


Radiance guard too, blinding enemies works just as well at cap as it does in heroics.


Personally I wouldn't bother going out of my way for any DPS guards.

Lonnbeimnech
10-30-2014, 03:22 PM
For endgame I would try to slot a bunch of golem hearts. With all the loot for enecro4 having a blue slot and green slot you can have a silly amount of these on one character. And what else would you slot on a blue slot? 100% fort? +8 resistence? All outmatched at that level anyway. except +2 good luck, I suppose.

Saekee
10-30-2014, 03:37 PM
in heroics the cacophonic defense on the blasting chime does a lot of damage and is generally not resisted, procs often too.

unbongwah
10-30-2014, 03:57 PM
Radiance guard too, blinding enemies works just as well at cap as it does in heroics.
Good point: only problem is it looks like Radiance Guard (http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiance_Guard) is only available on older epic items, so it's not something you would still want equipped by level cap.

in heroics the cacophonic defense on the blasting chime does a lot of damage and is generally not resisted, procs often too.
According to the wiki, Cacophonic Guard (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cacophonic_Guard) has ~10% proc chance and does ~250-400 dmg per proc; which works out to be roughly 25-40 dmg per hit on avg. That's a lot better than some other guard effects, like Disintegration Guard (http://ddowiki.com/page/Disintegration_Guard) (avg 8.9 dmg per hit). It's actually a pretty good item for a Swashbuckler: if they hit you, there's a chance of Cacophonic proccing; if they miss you, they take dmg from Sword Dance which is boosted by Resonance. Either way, it's free extra DPS.

FestusHood
10-30-2014, 04:19 PM
I played around with a guard build on my tanks last life. Lots of the guardian items from the Wheloon chain rewards have guard effects. The bracers have two. I was wearing some celestial armor with a guard effect. You can get shields with both a guard effect and riposte. Also using a weapon with riposte on it. All the damage effects from the ripostes stack.

There is a nice guard effect in tier 5 of unyielding sentinel also. I was able to get up to an average of about 150 damage per time attacked. My tank has now twisted the first two tiers of consecration, which does some pretty good damage on it's own, along with healing.

I jokingly referred to this as my full "tropical thunder" guard build. It's definitely a flavor build, but interesting to play with.

This life i will play around with the same concept, as it's easy to spec out of when you have to. My new, more appropriate name for this build is: The snapping turtle.

MangLord
10-31-2014, 02:14 AM
I certainly wouldn't rely on guard effects, but they can be a nice addition to a swashbuckler or other easily missed front line melee character. My level 24 swashbuckler has a level 24 ruby of resonance 114, and between the sonic damage on criticals and when enemies miss me, I'm sure it provides a fair level of supplemental DPS, especially when a small mob is taking 50 sonic damage every time they try to hit me. Six enemies swinging and missing is 300 damage that I'd otherwise have to dish out myself. If I notice in time, I'll often target off a slivered enemy and let him kill himself on my riposte and sonic guards as I focus on another enemy. Given that people farm for an item that will give them +2 stacking damage, getting a scaling d20 sonic damage when you're missed seems like a much better return on investment.

If you're a newer player using lootgen armors, the guard effects aren't really worth equipping, IMO. I'd rather opt for a deathblock effect or percentage based elemental protection.

FuzzyDuck81
10-31-2014, 03:11 AM
One of my characters is pretty guard-heavy (though not full porcupine), with the shadowscale docent, glorious dawn, guardians bracers & a greensteel rad2 cloak plus golems heart & crushing wave guard augments slotted... aiming for battlerager's harness & ward token too and it certainly makes a noticeable difference, especially when you have a mixture of on-hit & on-miss guards.. no matter what happens, as long as they're attacking you they take extra damage :) But then, all those items have other useful effects in addition to the guards.

I'd say they're very nice to have overall, but generally the more effect-based rather than damage-based ones are probably more effective.. always nice to have enemies get earthgrabbed, or blinded, or just fall down from time to time when they attack you.

Firewall
11-02-2014, 05:30 PM
The U22 Broken Music Box has Cacophonic Guard as a hidden effect when all three slots are filled.
Also there was a new Sapphire of Crushing Wave Guard augment introduced with U22.

MangLord
11-03-2014, 07:23 PM
I'm playing a drow swashbuckler at the moment, and I'd say that my personal build doesn't gain a whole lot from "on hit" guards. I run around with 26% dodge, 10% incorporeal and 20% blur normally, with a displacement on larger mobs and boss fights. I had the crushing wave sapphire equipped for a little while, and found that it might go off once or twice during a long quest. My riposte and sonic guards go off all the time, since they're based on misses. Not tremendous damage per miss, but everything counts in large amounts. I also benefit from the riposte and AOE vulnerability guards from my Barnacled Buckler very often.

In my opinion, the shadow armor is terrible. At end game you fight an awful lot of undead, and I find it incredibly annoying that I'm actually healing them as they attack me. I can't understand why that decision was made. Honestly, I see the thunderforged armor as being mostly useless now that epic Orchard armor is available. Even if Orchard was never made epic, I'd still rather work with epic Dragonscale, simply because it doesn't heal undead.

stoerm
11-04-2014, 06:51 AM
Good point: only problem is it looks like Radiance Guard (http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiance_Guard) is only available on older epic items, so it's not something you would still want equipped by level cap.

You can have it on a GS item (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=belt&craft=1&effects=radiance2_it_,iee_2_con&groups=plus_10_hp,plus_15_hp,plus_20_hp&forced=ee_1_dex,gee_3_dex,radiance_1_&altar=3&weapon=weapon) too. I specifically crafted a radiance guard as an "epic-proof" GS HP item.

P.S. Greensteel also offers some other nice guards. Some work in epics due to no save or because they work on reflex, eg. earthgrab, trap the soul and enervation.

FuzzyDuck81
11-06-2014, 02:03 AM
You can have it on a GS item (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=belt&craft=1&effects=radiance2_it_,iee_2_con&groups=plus_10_hp,plus_15_hp,plus_20_hp&forced=ee_1_dex,gee_3_dex,radiance_1_&altar=3&weapon=weapon) too. I specifically crafted a radiance guard as an "epic-proof" GS HP item.

P.S. Greensteel also offers some other nice guards. Some work in epics due to no save or because they work on reflex, eg. earthgrab, trap the soul and enervation.

I did much the same thing with my greensteel, except for the 1st tier - 10hp isn't all that much to worry about, but fire lore in there instead is a great boost to consecration & energy burst, especially combined with the shiny new epic inferno bracers.

bsquishwizzy
11-06-2014, 05:21 PM
Have a couple melee past lives under my belt now and fixing to start another. However never in any of my past lives did I try to accumulate armors that do different damages upon being hit.

So the question is, how worth it is it to try for these items vs other items? Especially for endgame.


EDIT: **** mispelled Defense, :(


As everyone else said, it not worth it.

Named stuff with augments, stuff with deathblock, healing amp, and so on would be better.