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FestusHood
10-14-2014, 03:06 PM
So i sez to myself, "How can a fighter with a shield keep up with a paladin when he's got that holy sword thing?"

12 fighter/ 6 bard/ 2 cleric

Human probably best race for this, since no ap is spent in the racial tree. I chose half-orc though just cuz.

4 points in warpriest for divine might
Enough points in kensei to get power surge. Haste boost, extra action boosts, tactics bonus, the rest cores.
Enough points in stalwart to get the stance and +6 strength. Skip the threat bonus.
Enough points in vanguard to get shield stun. Also get the one that gives temporary melee power on a stun attempt.
Enough points in swashbuckler to get low blow.
A few points left over to play around with. No tier 5 enhancements. Don't need em.

Max your strength
Enough intelligence to max out perform, umd, and balance. 14 should do it. Take bard every 3-4 levels to shore up skills.
Some con, rest charisma.

Basic feats. Not in order taken.

Power attack
Single weapon fighting X3
Shield mastery x2
Shield bashing
Improved critical slashing
Stunning blow
Cleave, Great cleave
A few feats left to play around with. I'll take empower healing and quicken, though those won't matter till epic, so i will take them late.

Main weapon: Foresters brush hook. Heroic version, and later epic. Can use other swashbuckling weapons, they just won't be as good. Buckler shield offhand.

Should be pretty versatile in the sense that you have lots of options you can try out with ap spending.

Made this using a leftover +20 heart from my attempt at a munchkinized bard/fighter/barbarian hybrid that didn't work out. This guy was level 15 when i did this, and still is.

At level 15, it's far and away the highest melee dps build i have made. YMMV. Alternating stunning blow with the shield stun, it's pretty easy to keep the melee power bonus from vanguard up almost all the time. Not to mention stuff is stunned. Low blow adds one more way to incap your opponent, though it doesn't seem to give helpless damage.

Have haste boost from kensei and doublestrike boost from swashbuckler. So lots of boosting available. Could opt for the stacking damage boost from human if you wanted. Mine is a Horc, so i can't try that.

P.S. I forgot to mention in the feats list that you need to take proficiency kama, as it's classed as an exotic weapon.

unbongwah
10-14-2014, 03:20 PM
A few points left over to play around with. No tier 5 enhancements. Don't need em.
A Swashbuckler without Coup de Grace and Exploit Weakness looks...odd to me. In particular, no CdG on a build which gets so many stuns feels like an oversight. Also Precision + Thread the Needle is more DPS than Power Atk alone.

However, I'm not sure how to swing the APs for it: 21 APs into Kensei, 4 APs into WP, 13 APs into SD, 13 APs into Vanguard, 33 APs into SB - that's 84 APs, so something has to give.

FestusHood
10-14-2014, 03:34 PM
A Swashbuckler without Coup de Grace and Exploit Weakness looks...odd to me. In particular, no CdG on a build which gets so many stuns feels like an oversight. Also Precision + Thread the Needle is more DPS than Power Atk alone.

However, I'm not sure how to swing the APs for it: 21 APs into Kensei, 4 APs into WP, 13 APs into SD, 13 APs into Vanguard, 33 APs into SB - that's 84 APs, so something has to give.

I view this as a fighter more than a bard. I was just after raw munchkin dps.

Yes, there are many ways you can spend the ap to get something slightly different with this setup.

P.S. There are some leftover feats, so taking precision along with power attack is an option. If i were to try to include those things you mention here, i would just dump stalwart altogether and put one point in warchanger for skaldic rage, and use the rage spell for the same +6 strength. You would lose some defensive benefits from the stance obviously.

the_one_dwarfforged
10-18-2014, 07:27 AM
i like it.

the only issue i have with it is that a paladin can use heavy armor, a heavy shield, and a heavy weapon. whereas this build uses light stuff, and that kind of kills the mood for me.

FestusHood
10-18-2014, 08:17 AM
i like it.

the only issue i have with it is that a paladin can use heavy armor, a heavy shield, and a heavy weapon. whereas this build uses light stuff, and that kind of kills the mood for me.

That's true, but if you go heavy you can't use the single weapon fighting feats. The paladin will be better at self healing too, at least until epic. The brush hook has the advantage that it has metalline and aligned on it, so you don't have to worry about breaking most dr.

Makkuroi
10-20-2014, 03:41 PM
why cleric over fvs? fvs has better saves...

Interesting build but unfortunately I dont have a fighter PL on my schedule anytime soon.

EllisDee37
10-20-2014, 03:59 PM
However, I'm not sure how to swing the APs for it: 21 APs into Kensei, 4 APs into WP, 13 APs into SD, 13 APs into Vanguard, 33 APs into SB - that's 84 APs, so something has to give.What does 21 AP get you in kensei? Isn't dropping that to 17 relatively painless?

EDIT: Ah, it's for power surge.

drnknmnky
10-21-2014, 09:50 PM
You could try getting the Gloves of Titans Grip for the clicky (3 uses per rest) for psionic strength, drop some fighter levels for more bard levels allowing you to free up your intelligence build points and still be good on skill points. I really doubt you would have a hard time hitting with a kama even without the feat with this kind of strength score. Just some thoughts.

Edit. I see you plan on extra action boosts so 3 uses per rest for gloves might not be appealing. Disregard :)

Xenaphon
10-23-2014, 02:49 PM
So i sez to myself, "How can a fighter with a shield keep up with a paladin when he's got that holy sword thing?"

12 fighter/ 6 bard/ 2 cleric

Human probably best race for this, since no ap is spent in the racial tree. I chose half-orc though just cuz.

4 points in warpriest for divine might
Enough points in kensei to get power surge. Haste boost, extra action boosts, tactics bonus, the rest cores.
Enough points in stalwart to get the stance and +6 strength. Skip the threat bonus.
Enough points in vanguard to get shield stun. Also get the one that gives temporary melee power on a stun attempt.
Enough points in swashbuckler to get low blow.
A few points left over to play around with. No tier 5 enhancements. Don't need em.

Max your strength
Enough intelligence to max out perform, umd, and balance. 14 should do it. Take bard every 3-4 levels to shore up skills.
Some con, rest charisma.

Basic feats. Not in order taken.

Power attack
Single weapon fighting X3
Shield mastery x2
Shield bashing
Improved critical slashing
Stunning blow
Cleave, Great cleave
A few feats left to play around with. I'll take empower healing and quicken, though those won't matter till epic, so i will take them late.

Main weapon: Foresters brush hook. Heroic version, and later epic. Can use other swashbuckling weapons, they just won't be as good. Buckler shield offhand.

Should be pretty versatile in the sense that you have lots of options you can try out with ap spending.

Made this using a leftover +20 heart from my attempt at a munchkinized bard/fighter/barbarian hybrid that didn't work out. This guy was level 15 when i did this, and still is.

At level 15, it's far and away the highest melee dps build i have made. YMMV. Alternating stunning blow with the shield stun, it's pretty easy to keep the melee power bonus from vanguard up almost all the time. Not to mention stuff is stunned. Low blow adds one more way to incap your opponent, though it doesn't seem to give helpless damage.

Have haste boost from kensei and doublestrike boost from swashbuckler. So lots of boosting available. Could opt for the stacking damage boost from human if you wanted. Mine is a Horc, so i can't try that.

P.S. I forgot to mention in the feats list that you need to take proficiency kama, as it's classed as an exotic weapon.


I have thought about something similar, but I would go 12 ftr/7 bard /1fvs
7 Bard gives you 3rd level spells such as haste and cure serious. 1 fvs for divine might.
I would not spend the points in kensai to get the str boost, 1 min is too short. I rather make vanguard and swash better. I would go tier 5 vanguard for DPS or Tier 5 Swash for insta kill.

FestusHood
10-23-2014, 03:01 PM
You could try getting the Gloves of Titans Grip for the clicky (3 uses per rest) for psionic strength, drop some fighter levels for more bard levels allowing you to free up your intelligence build points and still be good on skill points. I really doubt you would have a hard time hitting with a kama even without the feat with this kind of strength score. Just some thoughts.

Edit. I see you plan on extra action boosts so 3 uses per rest for gloves might not be appealing. Disregard :)

Just my own taste i dislike swapping items to use short term clicky's. The item swap cooldown bugs me, especially if you are using more than one. Plus the titans grip gloves only regenerate one use per rest.

FestusHood
10-23-2014, 03:17 PM
why cleric over fvs? fvs has better saves...

Interesting build but unfortunately I dont have a fighter PL on my schedule anytime soon.

Originally, this guy was slightly different, with barb levels instead of cleric. I can't remember exactly why i took cleric levels over fvs. I do know i disliked relying on rage for this build, so i used my +20 to change it. He had 18 barbarian levels the previous life, and i enjoyed that. He was also getting +15 strength from rage effects. This guy would never have had more than +7 from rage.

I suppose fvs might be a better choice than cleric. I didn't consider the difference in base saves.

FestusHood
10-23-2014, 04:06 PM
I have thought about something similar, but I would go 12 ftr/7 bard /1fvs
7 Bard gives you 3rd level spells such as haste and cure serious. 1 fvs for divine might.
I would not spend the points in kensai to get the str boost, 1 min is too short. I rather make vanguard and swash better. I would go tier 5 vanguard for DPS or Tier 5 Swash for insta kill.

This is an interesting combination also. I hadn't really considered the spellcasting aspect of the bard levels. I liked the option from the second cleric level of getting 10 prr from tier two enhancements if i dropped the enhancements in stalwart, which i will certainly try at some point.

Without any significant positive spell power or healing amp, i won't be expecting to rely on cure serious for healing, but if i could fit in the extend feat, having displacement as a spell might be useful. I don't worry much about haste, i always have a crafted 10% alacrity item until i can get something better. I also have piles of better than vendor haste pots.

This guy is still level 16, and i planned to take the second cleric level at level 20, but i will consider taking a 7th bard level instead. Would still stick with the power surge plan though, i want his stuns to work.

adrian69
01-06-2015, 09:46 PM
So i sez to myself, "How can a fighter with a shield keep up with a paladin when he's got that holy sword thing?"



It's called 20 Bard. Way out DPS'd my newly coded Holy Sword Paladin.