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DarkSable
10-13-2014, 05:20 PM
Hey guys!

So, I have an alt that I'm designing its third life for. 36pt build, +4 (or +5, can't remember) tomes, almost nothing in the way of gear. One sorc past life, one bard past life.

It's currently a SWF / Freezing CC bard which I enjoy playing, but am not enthralled with. I would like to TR into a 3 Bard / 1 Barb / 16 Wizard for melee capabilities, run speed, and 35% incorporeal / 50% displacement, respectively. I did buy Harper Agent for deliciousness on my rogue, so I'm planning on going INT-based, dumping dex and str, pumping CON and using CHA instead of wiz for saves, for synergy with bard.

Here's my question... with a very high INT, how much effort am I going to have to put into getting a usable Flesh to Stone DC / spell penetration? Is it feasible, or am I looking at months of grinding for epic gear that I don't have?

This toon will mostly be played as a miss-chance DPS tank, with 50%/35%/~25%/5% stacking miss chances, with only about a ~21% chance of getting hit each swing and undead immunities plus self-healing over time. Essentially, I'm going to be going DPS against trash, and off-tanking against bosses.

That being said, I would also like to be useful in raids in other ways, most specifically for the Mark of Death. The easiest way for me to do this is to be able to get a reliable Flesh to Stone to keep trash mobs off the raid, which is why I'm asking about it. Thanks for your input!

Violith
10-13-2014, 08:37 PM
Hey guys!

So, I have an alt that I'm designing its third life for. 36pt build, +4 (or +5, can't remember) tomes, almost nothing in the way of gear. One sorc past life, one bard past life.

It's currently a SWF / Freezing CC bard which I enjoy playing, but am not enthralled with. I would like to TR into a 3 Bard / 1 Barb / 16 Wizard for melee capabilities, run speed, and 35% incorporeal / 50% displacement, respectively. I did buy Harper Agent for deliciousness on my rogue, so I'm planning on going INT-based, dumping dex and str, pumping CON and using CHA instead of wiz for saves, for synergy with bard.

Here's my question... with a very high INT, how much effort am I going to have to put into getting a usable Flesh to Stone DC / spell penetration? Is it feasible, or am I looking at months of grinding for epic gear that I don't have?

This toon will mostly be played as a miss-chance DPS tank, with 50%/35%/~25%/5% stacking miss chances, with only about a ~21% chance of getting hit each swing and undead immunities plus self-healing over time. Essentially, I'm going to be going DPS against trash, and off-tanking against bosses.

That being said, I would also like to be useful in raids in other ways, most specifically for the Mark of Death. The easiest way for me to do this is to be able to get a reliable Flesh to Stone to keep trash mobs off the raid, which is why I'm asking about it. Thanks for your input!

not sure on the exact number, but I believe someone said a 50DC for flesh to stone was good in EN mark of death, higher difficulties will of course need higher DC's.

would suggest looking at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide

Bracers
10-13-2014, 10:03 PM
not sure on the exact number, but I believe someone said a 50DC for flesh to stone was good in EN mark of death, higher difficulties will of course need higher DC's.

would suggest looking at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide

EN = 58
EH = 65
EE = 72

Crazy Stoner :P

moo_cow
10-13-2014, 10:14 PM
EN = 58
EH = 65
EE = 72

Crazy Stoner :P

This seems about right, but it really depends on what you are stoning. I find that it is very easy to control the beholders with a 66-68 FTS but I find that 72 - 74 would be more suited to the vampires. (this being on ee)

DarkSable
10-13-2014, 10:54 PM
not sure on the exact number, but I believe someone said a 50DC for flesh to stone was good in EN mark of death, higher difficulties will of course need higher DC's.

would suggest looking at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide

Thank you!

And apologies for not finding the PM guide; I don't usually play casters, so I'm a bit out of my league here.

A 70+ DC sounds... difficult to get at best. I'm guessing that my chances of achieving it on a multiclass build isn't going to happen?

Moo_Cow, thanks for that tidbit; if I can keep the beholders under control, with the stacked miss chances, I'm hoping that I can tank the vampires somewhat decently. Not sure if it's just a pipe dream, but might be worth trying.

moo_cow
10-13-2014, 11:38 PM
Thank you!

And apologies for not finding the PM guide; I don't usually play casters, so I'm a bit out of my league here.

A 70+ DC sounds... difficult to get at best. I'm guessing that my chances of achieving it on a multiclass build isn't going to happen?

Moo_Cow, thanks for that tidbit; if I can keep the beholders under control, with the stacked miss chances, I'm hoping that I can tank the vampires somewhat decently. Not sure if it's just a pipe dream, but might be worth trying.

With a 68 dc I found that the vampires only stayed stoned for about 30 -45 seconds. They were saving a bit so with a defic diadem I was hitting them with a 70.

Eth recorded a video of an EE MoD where he was using a 72 transmutation dc and it was working really well, for the vampires he bumped up to a 79. He held them extremely well. When I ran it on ee I started off trying to stone them but only holding them for 30 seconds was a bit of a drain on sp. If you are just on stoning duty though, kiting/tanking them shoiuldnt be a huge problem. Not sure how to deal with the vampires otherwise. Don't think sunburst can insta kill them, they are protected with an epic ward I think and I doubt they can be blinded.

Eth
10-14-2014, 02:18 AM
Let's see...
I'll make some assumptions, since you didn't mention everything about the build.

Race: Drow
Destiny: Shadowdancer for synergy of melee-power and extra DCs
Feats: at least one transmutation focus feat (can be picked up from wizard extra feat list) to unlock +3 DC twist; Heighten
Items: tier 2 thunderforged transmutation 2-hander, 11 item, 3 insight item, upgraded shadow armor are available

Enhancements:
- 6 points in racial tree (+2 int)
- 32 points in necro tree (for Improved shrouding), +2 int from necro tree
- 14 AP in swash? (just an assumption)
- 14 AP harper; int to attack/damage, know the angles, +2 int
- that's 14 AP left; Ill assume you spend 10 more of those in the harper tree to pick up +2 more int; leaves 4 to play around with whatever

Int from enhancements total: 8


Int: 20 base + 4 tome + 7 levels + 3 insight item + 1 globe + 11 item + 6 destiny + 2 yugo pot + 2 shipbuff + 8 enhancements = 64
DCs: 10 base + 9 level + 27 mod + 1 focus + 3 twist + 1 shipbuff + 6 item + 1 unique + 1 profane + 2 augment = 61

Possible more DCs: 2 int from twists, 3 int from epic feats, 1 litany = 6 int (or +3 DCs)

So you can still end up with a DC between 61-64 which is absolutely fine for EH and borderline useful for beholders only on EE.

DarkSable
10-14-2014, 12:26 PM
Let's see...
I'll make some assumptions, since you didn't mention everything about the build.

Race: Drow
Destiny: Shadowdancer for synergy of melee-power and extra DCs
Feats: at least one transmutation focus feat (can be picked up from wizard extra feat list) to unlock +3 DC twist; Heighten
Items: tier 2 thunderforged transmutation 2-hander, 11 item, 3 insight item, upgraded shadow armor are available

Enhancements:
- 6 points in racial tree (+2 int)
- 32 points in necro tree (for Improved shrouding), +2 int from necro tree
- 14 AP in swash? (just an assumption)
- 14 AP harper; int to attack/damage, know the angles, +2 int
- that's 14 AP left; Ill assume you spend 10 more of those in the harper tree to pick up +2 more int; leaves 4 to play around with whatever

Int from enhancements total: 8


Int: 20 base + 4 tome + 7 levels + 3 insight item + 1 globe + 11 item + 6 destiny + 2 yugo pot + 2 shipbuff + 8 enhancements = 64
DCs: 10 base + 9 level + 27 mod + 1 focus + 3 twist + 1 shipbuff + 6 item + 1 unique + 1 profane + 2 augment = 61

Possible more DCs: 2 int from twists, 3 int from epic feats, 1 litany = 6 int (or +3 DCs)

So you can still end up with a DC between 61-64 which is absolutely fine for EH and borderline useful for beholders only on EE.


Ah, thank you! That's incredibly useful; I haven't really pieced this build together entirely myself, since I wasn't sure if pumping DCs was worth it.

If I went Sun Elf for marginally better DC's, picked up greater spell focus, and reset my enhancements to focus on DCs, would it be manageable? I'm perfectly happy to run in in one form for questing and another for raiding. I'm also more than willing to run in a different ED if it would pump my DCs more; I'm thinking magister with defensive twists, or INT twists if they're needed. I wouldn't be able to run around with a two hander... although I suppose if I'm switching to a DC rig for raiding, there's no reason not to run with a staff.

Hmm... when I have more time, I'm going to have to go through and figure out exactly what I'm doing with this so that I have both options open.