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Retrodark
10-10-2014, 05:17 PM
I am just messing around with this idea since it seems like PMs have the best survival in the new content and Paladins get a better holy sword. I feel zombie form just seems bad, so I am only going to lvl 14 pal in order to get lvl 6 wiz for vampire.

I would like to wear heavy armor. Since most of the casting is for buffing, could probably just deal with the occasional (5-15% casting failure). Much of what I have below is rough guesswork as I am sitting at work totally bored today. It is just an idea on paper for the moment. It is probably a terrible idea, but it sounds slightly interesting and remotely fun.

Feedback is welcome.

Pros:

Undead defenses
Ability to cast holy sword
Some wizard utility, buffs and scrolls
High UMD
Decent Saves
High PRR/MRR

Cons:
DPS not optimal
Hard to fit in some desired enhancements like getting better than -%5 casting failure with armor.
Only have the lesser aura for heals and store pots while in Vampire form.
No zeal because lvl 15 paladin is not really an option
Very low dodge
Stay away from stuff that casts light spells.

Here is a rough draft of what I am thinking

Vamp Helsing
Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
(14 Paladin \ 6 Wizard \ 8 Epic)

HPs - over 1000 buffed
SP - over 1200

STR - (16) +6(tome) +6(lvl) +2(enh) + 2(vamp) +2(yugo) +11(helm) + 6(stance) +17(DM) +4 (tensors) +5 (scream) +2 (pot) +1 exc +2 prof +2 (ship)= 84.
DEX - (8) +5(tome) +2(pot) +2(ship) +4(tens) 21 not used for anything but some minor AC
CON - (14) +5(tome) + 2(yugo) +11(belt) +4 (tensor's) +4(neck) +2(pot) +5(scream) +1 (exc) +2 (ship) - 50
INT - (15) +5(tome) + 11(ring) +2(yugo) +2(pot) +2(ins) +1(exc) +2 ship - 40 (15 reflex bonus)
WIS - (10) +5(tome) + 11(item) +2(yugo) +2(pot) +2(ins) +1(exc) +2 ship - 34
CHA - (16) +5(tome) +1(lvl) +1(enh) + 2(vamp) +2(yugo) +2(pot) +10-11(item) +2 ins +1 exc +2 ship = 44 (17 to saves/DM)


Feats:
Level 1 (Wizard)
(Human Bonus) Power Attack
(Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
(Selected) Single Weapon Fighting
Level 2 (Paladin) (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Level 3 (Paladin) (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Level 6 (Paladin) (Selected) Shield Mastery
Level 9 (Paladin) (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Level 12 (Paladin) (Selected) Improved Single Weapon Fighting
Level 15 (Paladin) (Selected) Greater Single Weapon Fighting
Level 18 (Wizard) (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Level 19 (Wizard) (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Level 21 (Epic) (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
Level 24 (Epic) (Selected) Epic: Bulwark of Defense
Level 26 (Epic) (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Level 27 (Epic) (Selected) Epic: Ruin?
Level 28 (Epic) (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball?



Epic Destiny:

Divine Crusader or LD.

Twists:
Sense Weakness, Legendary Shield Mastery, Brace

Enhancements:

Human -1
Eldrich Knight -12 (some of this can be spent elsewhere)
Pale Master - 11 (enough to get vampire)
KotC - 33 - Cleaves, etc.
Sacred Defender - 23(+6 str and +20% health)


Gear layout
- Head - Epic Emerald Gaze (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Emerald_Gaze) (+2 in Char)- no reason to get mythic because the +4 ins str is useless with DM.
- Neck - Upgraded Necklace of Mystic Eidolons (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Necklace_of_Mystic_Eidolons) (+2 luck)
- Trinket - Epic Litany (if I were to ever get one) (empty slot).
- Armor - Shadow armor dragonplate w/ shadow guardian (spell agility +15, globe)
- Goggles - Epic Glimpse of the Soul (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Glimpse_of_the_Soul) or
- Belt - Epic Belt of Thoughtful Rememberance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Belt_of_Thoughtful_Rememberance) or Epic Chord of Reprisals (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Chord_of_Reprisals)
- Bracers - Epic Inferno Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Inferno_Bracers) or Epic Ethereal Bracers
- Gloves - EE Nether Grasps
- Boots - Orcish Privateer's Boots (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Orcish_Privateer%27s_Boots)
- Cloak - Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf
- Ring 1 - Epic Eye of the Beholder (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Eye_of_the_Beholder) (False Life 40)
- Ring 2 - Something good here

- Main hand - Complete TF rapier / the 3BC rapier (meteoric aug; wis +2)
- Offhand - Libram of Silver Magic (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Libram_of_Silver_Magic) (heal +13) or Complete TF orb /w 150 null and 22% null lore (Heal +15, meteoric, deconstructor)

Saves(these are sort of a guess, and I feel they should be slightly higher)
Fort +9(pal) +2(wiz) +17(DG) + 18(con) +11(item) +3(PL) +3(stance) +4(GH) +4(other) - (71)
Reflex +4(pal) +2(wiz) +17(DG) + 15(INT) + 11(item) +3(PL) +3(stance) +4(GH) +4(other) - (63)
Will +4(pal) +5(wiz) +17(DG) +7(wis) +11(item) +3(PL) +3(stance) +4(GH) +4(other) - (58)

AtomicMew
10-11-2014, 03:53 PM
How do you plan to self heal with only 6 levels of wizard? I wouldn't make a PM character with less than 8 levels of wizard, preferably 10, and extend is pretty much a must have feat with so few wizard levels.

unbongwah
10-11-2014, 04:20 PM
Pros of vamp form: +2 STR, +2 CHA, +2 Enchantment DCs, +100% fortification, -25% threat, vorpal melee hits proc level drain
Cons of vamp form: 3x dmg from light spells, immune to pos energy healing (inc. your own LoHs), dependent on Death Auras, NEB, and friendly casters with Inflict/Harm spells

Self-healing is this build's Achilles Heel. With only Lesser Death Aura to heal yourself, I can't possibly see how this would be a good idea unless you run with a static group and one of the casters is willing to help keep you alive - err, undead.

the_one_dwarfforged
10-12-2014, 01:24 AM
undead based healing is just awful in any situation in my opinion. minimal options, difficult to boost, more hot than burst focus.

to me going undead is always a massive mistake that offers paltry benefits in return.

Drathsiddh
10-12-2014, 02:29 AM
Pros of vamp form: +2 STR, +2 CHA, +2 Enchantment DCs, +100% fortification, -25% threat, vorpal melee hits proc level drain
Cons of vamp form: 3x dmg from light spells, immune to pos energy healing (inc. your own LoHs), dependent on Death Auras, NEB, and friendly casters with Inflict/Harm spells

Self-healing is this build's Achilles Heel. With only Lesser Death Aura to heal yourself, I can't possibly see how this would be a good idea unless you run with a static group and one of the casters is willing to help keep you alive - err, undead.

Agreed, but with enough investment in the PM tree, Imp Shrouding can get you:
Heal on every hit, pair this up with a sweet off hand proc, and double strike+Haste+LDA (no DA) that is some pretty fast self healing.
Also the light vulnerability is greatly reduced, and can be reduced further with Cloak of Night, and since the self healing is coming from thrashing your opponents with two nasty blades, it is a huge pro.

So the Pro's would be something like this:
+30 HP (PM)+15(EK)=45 HP
+2 Con
Skele for low lvls.
Some decent wiz spells (Haste, Rage, Shield, to name a few)
Cons:
Immune to positive Healing.
Heavy investment into PM.
Stat points are spread WAY to wide (Int, Str, Cha , Con, Dex if going TWF and need a +6 wis item too, thats all the Stats ingame)
Still takes lots of light damage.
No zeal!!
Shines only at lvl 12 + only if you have 6 wiz by then, otherwise even longer.

To be honest OP, I dont see this working out, either go Pally or PM.
Note: This has got me thinking, if you get your Off hand proc chance to 100 (Rng) then with haste boost and haste (45% atk speed boost, and it stacks, tested by my) then you can really self heal fast with just 6-7 in wiz .Unbongwah can you make it work?

AtomicMew
10-12-2014, 03:08 AM
Agreed, but with enough investment in the PM tree, Imp Shrouding can get you:
Heal on every hit, pair this up with a sweet off hand proc, and double strike+Haste+LDA (no DA) that is some pretty fast self healing.
Also the light vulnerability is greatly reduced, and can be reduced further with Cloak of Night, and since the self healing is coming from thrashing your opponents with two nasty blades, it is a huge pro.

So the Pro's would be something like this:
+30 HP (PM)+15(EK)=45 HP
+2 Con
Skele for low lvls.
Some decent wiz spells (Haste, Rage, Shield, to name a few)
Cons:
Immune to positive Healing.
Heavy investment into PM.
Stat points are spread WAY to wide (Int, Str, Cha , Con, Dex if going TWF and need a +6 wis item too, thats all the Stats ingame)
Still takes lots of light damage.
No zeal!!
Shines only at lvl 12 + only if you have 6 wiz by then, otherwise even longer.

To be honest OP, I dont see this working out, either go Pally or PM.
Note: This has got me thinking, if you get your Off hand proc chance to 100 (Rng) then with haste boost and haste (45% atk speed boost, and it stacks, tested by my) then you can really self heal fast with just 6-7 in wiz .Unbongwah can you make it work?

It just isn't enough self healing for end game. If you're going TWF, you probably want to go with 6 ranger (tempest). Then you'd need to drop 14 paladin either way. Maybe something like 10 wizard/6 ranger/4 paladin.

Saekee
10-12-2014, 06:41 AM
Dump pally--go lawful neutral 12 monk 8 wiz; use grave wrappings and vamp form so you proc massive negative levels on vorpal hits (wraps will give higher attack speed); tier 5 pale master for self-healing on hit; monk pajamas resolves arcane spell failure. While leveling, use heroic souleater or just kill all as uber monk. Use tier 3 calomels on bosses.
Pale master professionals can tip you on rest of gear to boost death aura.
Should be fun to play.

unbongwah
10-12-2014, 12:07 PM
Note: This has got me thinking, if you get your Off hand proc chance to 100 (Rng) then with haste boost and haste (45% atk speed boost, and it stacks, tested by my) then you can really self heal fast with just 6-7 in wiz .Unbongwah can you make it work?
Not relevant to the OP's build, but I did have some rgr / monk / wiz ideas. Harper opens some interesting possibilities, like INT-based wiz 15 / monk 2 / rgr 3: TWF w/wraps or short swords (100% offhand proc thanks to Tempest + Deft Strikes); possibly Zen Archery + Manyshot for burst ranged DPS because duh ;); PM w/lvl 8 spells. For novelty's sake I was thinking vamp-form Shadowdancer with Energy Burst Twisted in.

Despite bonus wiz & monk feats, they're pretty tight and BAB progression complicates leveling: at a minimum ITWF, GTWF, Precision or Power Atk (monk feat), and IC:Blunt or Pierce; if you want MS, you also need PBS & Zen Archery (can be 2nd monk feat) and ideally IC:Ranged; some or all of Adept/Master/GM of Forms; wiz feats go towards your metamagics and Spell Focus (for DC Twist).

But that's all just theorycrafting on my part; no clue how well it would work in reality. Though naturally it would work better if you have the PLs to make up for the loss of Spell Pen & DCs from heavy MCing.

Retrodark
10-15-2014, 04:56 PM
How do you plan to self heal with only 6 levels of wizard? I wouldn't make a PM character with less than 8 levels of wizard, preferably 10, and extend is pretty much a must have feat with so few wizard levels.

I agree that the self healing (while in undead form) will be terrible. It will rely heavily on store pots (I might still have a few of these left :)). Vampire mode can be used more of a tool for surviving quests like Epic GOP. In addition, I am thinking the Paladin defenses will help a lot (HP, AC, PRR, MRR, saves, etc.). You are right about extend. I switched maximize out for extend. Anyway, this is probably not a toon I would frequent EE content in very often. If I was going 8 lvls of wizard, I would just go 12 and go wraith, but I wanted at least 14 lvls of paladin too.

Retrodark
10-15-2014, 05:00 PM
Dump pally--go lawful neutral 12 monk 8 wiz; use grave wrappings and vamp form so you proc massive negative levels on vorpal hits (wraps will give higher attack speed); tier 5 pale master for self-healing on hit; monk pajamas resolves arcane spell failure. While leveling, use heroic souleater or just kill all as uber monk. Use tier 3 calomels on bosses.
Pale master professionals can tip you on rest of gear to boost death aura.
Should be fun to play.

This is a totally different build and does not even remotely resemble the idea I had here. Thanks for your input though.

Retrodark
10-15-2014, 05:36 PM
Pros of vamp form: +2 STR, +2 CHA, +2 Enchantment DCs, +100% fortification, -25% threat, vorpal melee hits proc level drain
Cons of vamp form: 3x dmg from light spells, immune to pos energy healing (inc. your own LoHs), dependent on Death Auras, NEB, and friendly casters with Inflict/Harm spells

Self-healing is this build's Achilles Heel. With only Lesser Death Aura to heal yourself, I can't possibly see how this would be a good idea unless you run with a static group and one of the casters is willing to help keep you alive - err, undead.

Thanks for you input. Self-healing is definitely the "Achilles Heel" of the build. I could use inflict damage scrolls and I still have a few store pots left. In addition, maybe twist cocoon for the temp hps.

P.S. I would not stay in vamp form when around light casting mobs (esp in EE content)