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ChemE
10-02-2014, 07:24 PM
I want to TR into an Iconic, preferably, PDK. Not interested in anything other than thf since it took forever to grind out a ESOS and it's just what I prefer. Any ideas would be great. Is an iconic a good choice here? Don't have blade forged so that's not really an option.

unbongwah
10-03-2014, 10:35 AM
How about Bladefo- ? j/k :cool:

I'll presume you want at least pal 15 for Zeal + Holy Sword, because why wouldn't you? ;) Are you willing to splurge on an LR +1 to switch to pure pally? If not, do you want a pal 18 split (18/2 or 18/1/1) or are you open to a more heavily-MCed split? Apart from swinging a big ol' eSOS, is there anything else you want, like Manyshot or trap skills or Evasion or whatever?

Handi_Smith
10-03-2014, 03:22 PM
I would be interested in hearing others opinion on this type of build as I too have a lot of Great axes SOS and Pinion. Many shot sounds cool...melee in between cool downs

ChemE
10-05-2014, 06:16 AM
How about Bladefo- ? j/k :cool:

I'll presume you want at least pal 15 for Zeal + Holy Sword, because why wouldn't you? ;) Are you willing to splurge on an LR +1 to switch to pure pally? If not, do you want a pal 18 split (18/2 or 18/1/1) or are you open to a more heavily-MCed split? Apart from swinging a big ol' eSOS, is there anything else you want, like Manyshot or trap skills or Evasion or whatever?

I don't have a heart right now so the 1 fighter level will have to stay. Right now my fighter is a human 12/6/2 fighter/monk/pally so any good optimal build will do.

brucelee82
10-05-2014, 09:18 AM
odd thought

Go morning lord. Use the Harper enhancements to use int for hit/damage. Max intelligence then use charisma secondary. Throw in some levels of rogue and insightful reflexes.

Takllin
10-05-2014, 10:11 AM
I don't have a heart right now so the 1 fighter level will have to stay. Right now my fighter is a human 12/6/2 fighter/monk/pally so any good optimal build will do.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429975-Sestra-s-Build-Thread?highlight=Sestra

This would be the build that you want then. Something along these lines, use it as a template of sorts. 18 Paladin/1 Fighter/1 Ranger. Full THF line, Manyshot, almost all the goodies a Paladin has(no capstone).

Toro12
10-05-2014, 07:05 PM
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429975-Sestra-s-Build-Thread?highlight=Sestra

This would be the build that you want then. Something along these lines, use it as a template of sorts. 18 Paladin/1 Fighter/1 Ranger. Full THF line, Manyshot, almost all the goodies a Paladin has(no capstone).

You don't get any extra level 4 spells at 18 as a pally. Seems kinda pointless to me to go 18 pally over 15 pally. Only 1 extra remove disease for 18 vs 15 not even an extra smite.

Those 3 extra levels would be better spent, I'm thinking.

EllisDee37
10-05-2014, 07:31 PM
You don't get any extra level 4 spells at 18 as a pally. Seems kinda pointless to me to go 18 pally over 15 pally. Only 1 extra remove disease for 18 vs 15 not even an extra smite.

Those 3 extra levels would be better spent, I'm thinking.Paladin 18 would mainly be for the KotC core. Compared to the ML12 core, the ML18 core gives an additional 2d6 light damage on every attack (supposedly scales with melee power) plus 500 damage vorpals against undead, which works out to +25 per swing vs undead.

If you run a lot of undead quests, pally 18 is pretty solid compared to 15. Even if not, a melee power-scaling +2d6 light damage on all attacks isn't terrible.

F2PPremiumLeech
10-10-2014, 02:59 AM
I'm looking for pure THF build using greataxes and I have few questions:

I presume all points to CHA on level ups?
What is best destiny to run it? LD or DC?
LD requires taking cleave and great cleave feats ? Enhancement ones dont work apparently?
Dwarf or human? Dwarves have that bonus to axes and possibility of con to dmg? Is con to dmg valid choice on paladin?


Anything else I should know?

elcagador
10-10-2014, 10:30 PM
Combining master of stone/wind stance, a dance of flowers twist, quick strike, haste boost, zeal, holy sword and recharging adrenaline+exalted smites seems interesting too:

Bladeforged Paladin 15/ Rogue 3/Monk 2 or Paladin 16/rogue 2/Monk 2

Kotc 40 pt, thief acrobat 22 pt, Bladeforged 18 pt, Fury of the wild for burst dps with evasion and some cc.

Feats: Force of Pers., Magical training, quicken, Ic Bludgeon, THf (monk feat), Power attack (monk feat), Ithf, gthf, adept of forms, master of forms, overwhelming critical, Ptwf or Pthf, epic dmg reduction, elusive target

Twists: A dance of flowers, Improved power attack, extra action boost, brace for impact, Hail of blows, etc.
Stats (32 pt): 16 str, 16 con, 16 cha, 8 wis, 10 int, lvl up on cha, no tomes required

Weapons: Sireth, TF, Stout Oak Walking Stick, etc.

unbongwah
10-10-2014, 10:42 PM
Adamantine Body blocks Evasion and uncenters you, which would rather undermine the point to monk-splash build like that.

elcagador
10-10-2014, 10:46 PM
Adamantine Body blocks Evasion and uncenters you, which would rather undermine the point to monk-splash build like that.

Oh yeah, thanks for the info, then it will be without that feat., centered with evasion.

Chimeran1
10-11-2014, 12:26 AM
Oh yeah, thanks for the info, then it will be without that feat., centered with evasion.

Some things to note:

Kensai sucks ... Waste of AP for very little gain ~ 4 points max for Speed Attack
Monk for Paladin sucks since U23, evasion... Bah you don't need it.
Cetus build... /fail
My Bladeforge fails a save on EH and takes 30 damage if that.....who cares, with 1050hp and a 1200 crit self repair every 6 seconds that can be cast while Bladesworn transformed or even if you have been molestered by a Quells intervention.

I wish I had an ESoS cause just another reason to Nerdgasm over Bladeforged

Good luck to any non BF Paladin healing through Mark of Death raid.
Bladeforge 16/4 Paladin/Fighter
Harper enhance are lame, have to spend heaps for $uck all gain. It is just candy and AP is better spent in BF racials.
Extra spell points ..eh , yeah thought so, I got gear and pots for that.
Few extra melee power for how many AP.... No thanks, I am getting + 20%

Bladeforge is an easy level cap, far easier than PDK.
Bonuses for using an SoS!! Sold !!! ( BF get great sword bonuses, power attack bonuses, 2H glancing bonus...20% damage clickie with an ESos = nerd dribble ) :)
The Bladeforge self repair is awesome for raids and should be called " Last Forge Standing " because you are almost immortal "

I totally missed this when I TR'ed into PDK ( yeah you ba$tard, you know who you are for talking me into it, now I got 28 levels of Purple Dragon Kitty to yawn through ) !!
BF self repair while intervened = woot !

Bldeforge are naturally immune to Sleep, Energy drained, Nauseated, Sickened, Exhausted, and Paralyzed effects.
Immune to ability score damage from Natural Poisons,( step over that dead Fleshie that got owned by that EE poison Ward :) and Natural Diseases.
PDK are not, and what a pain during the leveling process.... Never an issue for BF

Heal amp? GTFO fleshie Cleric did I ask to be healed by your inferior divine magic? :)
Oh wait, you can't heal cause you are intervened..../fail

With 115 repair power on your TF and BF past life % bonus, racial repair amp you require no, and I really mean no outside healing, you are the self sufficient king @ 600-900 standard repair, 1200-1400 critical repair...... fleshies can eat my biscuit, or if I like you, I will throw one of my Lay on Hands to heal your poison ward pawned body :)

It's back to Bladeforge for me, yeah ok miss out on a extra human feat and spend one on Adamantine but OMG the payoff is so so so worth it.

Note: Cosmetic eyes do not work with PDK and DDO shop hair styles are bugged, so I was gutted when I found out my Violet Eyes ( weekly 100 roll ) didn't work!!!

gwonbush
10-11-2014, 12:42 AM
Aren't Quells supposed to stop Bladeforged Reconstruct? I'm pretty sure that was in the release notes.

Takllin
10-11-2014, 02:01 AM
Aren't Quells supposed to stop Bladeforged Reconstruct? I'm pretty sure that was in the release notes.

Yeah it does block Bladeforged Reconstruct, not sure what the above poster is talking about. It is actually much easier to stay alive as a fleshy in MoD than as a Robot. Cacoon cannot be quelled.

EllisDee37
10-11-2014, 03:48 AM
If intercession is a major issue, you can always switch to Atonement.

Epic Glimpse of the Soul looks okay, but I'm not in love with it outside of intercession so that might be a trickier swap then Atonement.

Chimeran1
10-11-2014, 04:20 AM
Yeah it does block Bladeforged Reconstruct, not sure what the above poster is talking about. It is actually much easier to stay alive as a fleshy in MoD than as a Robot. Cacoon cannot be quelled.

Weird , I've never had an issue and dont carry cacoon.
Maybe I'm smoking too much crack but was sure the reconstruct was working, divine might wasn't or the Crusader AoE.
Perhaps the effect just didn't last long enough to really hurt and I was reconstructing after it wore off?
Survivability was not an issue, BF is just cake walking in there unless you stand in the fire and lose all your spell points.

Zoda
10-11-2014, 06:49 AM
Whole fleshy vs BF selfheal comparison is pointless if you are not planning to run elite (talking about MoD here), where fleshy > bladeforged, noone cares about the 6 minute normal runs.

I'd pick fleshy any day over BF because BF is way too taxing on AP for a class that already has amazing selfhealing capabilities. Human can get racial boost for a grand total of 1 AP and as BF you spend 16. It results in a tiny bit better damage output because of the PA line, but you will have to give up on something from other trees. Being a robot also gives serious disadvantages if you are planning to run in crusader because of the healamp penatly.

BF recon is supposedly silenced by quells and deathknights, and I think I remember Cetus twisting coccoon for ee to work around that (although it's supposed to stop EA slas as well and it doesn't... weird stuff).

@ChemE: PDK is decent choice, although I prefer pure (capstone is very nice, that light damage gets added to every glancing blow too). 19/1 gets 3rd spell slot for cure moderate, which atm hits me with my setup for 450ish average, 18/1/1 can get manyshot. Pure human is very solid choice, I made pure pdk with +1 lr heart for aesthetic reasons (and so I get a PDK life when I tr), but human would make no difference compared to PDK with my setup. I like STR based over CHA or whatever else, saves will be no fail anyway and dps is better that way. If you have any questions I'm happy to answer in game.

Toro12
10-11-2014, 07:32 AM
So you want iconic , and a THF paladin, no bladeforged.

Well that leaves few options

PDK and treat it like a human and go with the 19/1 pally fighter.
Grab a bit of heal amp from PDK tree, if that.

Go heavy in the kotc tree get the tier 5s.
Take a small dip in to defender to get a couple boosts while in heavy armor and stance along with that tasty, tasty +6 str.

Feat wise
Power attack
THF , iTHF, gTHF
IC : Slash
Leaves you 3 feats to play with (plus the fighter level bonus)
I like extend not having to recast zeal and holy sword is nice, as are longer divine favor and resists.
---
Hope you have a regular SoS to go with your eSoS. That is Easy button with holy sword.

Had a THF human pally who was left sitting at 17 for many a moon. Couple days after pally changes she is at 20 still swinging her standard SoS and still murdering epic stuff.

EllisDee37
10-11-2014, 07:43 AM
I like extend not having to recast zeal and holy sword is nice, as are longer divine favor and resists. Extend isn't particularly useful for zeal, holy sword and resists, which all last at least 19 minutes on a 19/1 build. (24 minutes if you're in Divine Crusader, which you probably will be.)

It helps with divine favor only in a "quality of life" sense. At 10 spell points to cast, extend gives no mana savings. Twice the duration for twice the cost. I find that when my only short-term buff is divine favor, I prefer not extending it. Divine favor has a max caster level of 18, meaning it caps at 2:12. That's close enough to divine might's 2:00 to be a nice easy deal of just refreshing both at the same time, as opposed to keeping track of two different counters.

I used to value extend quite a bit for zeal, but now that it's 1 minute per level I dropped extend like a bad habit.

Takllin
10-11-2014, 10:22 AM
Weird , I've never had an issue and dont carry cacoon.
Maybe I'm smoking too much crack but was sure the reconstruct was working, divine might wasn't or the Crusader AoE.
Perhaps the effect just didn't last long enough to really hurt and I was reconstructing after it wore off?
Survivability was not an issue, BF is just cake walking in there unless you stand in the fire and lose all your spell points.

Are you running EE or EH/EN? EH/EN it doesn't matter because they are ridiculously easy. EE is very different.

I know Recon doesn't work when quelled. Divine Might works when quelled, I just used it in the raid while quelled. Quell also lasts 30 seconds, I kinda doubt you are talking about running EE...

Chimeran1
10-11-2014, 03:05 PM
Whole fleshy vs BF selfheal comparison is pointless if you are not planning to run elite (talking about MoD here), where fleshy > bladeforged, noone cares about the 6 minute normal runs.

I'd pick fleshy any day over BF because BF is way too taxing on AP for a class that already has amazing selfhealing capabilities. Human can get racial boost for a grand total of 1 AP and as BF you spend 16. It results in a tiny bit better damage output because of the PA line, but you will have to give up on something from other trees. Being a robot also gives serious disadvantages if you are planning to run in crusader because of the healamp penatly.

BF recon is supposedly silenced by quells and deathknights, and I think I remember Cetus twisting coccoon for ee to work around that (although it's supposed to stop EA slas as well and it doesn't... weird stuff).

@ChemE: PDK is decent choice, although I prefer pure (capstone is very nice, that light damage gets added to every glancing blow too). 19/1 gets 3rd spell slot for cure moderate, which atm hits me with my setup for 450ish average, 18/1/1 can get manyshot. Pure human is very solid choice, I made pure pdk with +1 lr heart for aesthetic reasons (and so I get a PDK life when I tr), but human would make no difference compared to PDK with my setup. I like STR based over CHA or whatever else, saves will be no fail anyway and dps is better that way. If you have any questions I'm happy to answer in game.

Bladeforge is not running in Crusader for the AoE heal and is not at any disadvantage from heal amp.
I will take a full instant repair over any HoT.
The reconstruct also boosts melee speed

Power of the Forge: Action Boost: For 20 seconds you gain:
+20% Action Boost bonus to weapon damage
+30 Action Boost bonus to Universal Spell Power
+4 Action Boost bonus to all Saving Throws
+10 Action Boost bonus to Armor Class and Physical Resistance Rating

Each to their own.
For me it is Bladeforge for the ease of leveling, immunities, self repair, not needing to slot cacoon twist, not needing to use spell slots for heals, not getting held or poisoned, exhausted etc.
I can still have tier 5 KotC, fighter haste boost, sacred defender tier4 and all the good racials, AP have never been an issue, DPS is always very good and the survivability is exceptional.

Toro12
10-11-2014, 03:25 PM
Extend isn't particularly useful for zeal, holy sword and resists, which all last at least 19 minutes on a 19/1 build. (24 minutes if you're in Divine Crusader, which you probably will be.)

It helps with divine favor only in a "quality of life" sense. At 10 spell points to cast, extend gives no mana savings. Twice the duration for twice the cost. I find that when my only short-term buff is divine favor, I prefer not extending it. Divine favor has a max caster level of 18, meaning it caps at 2:12. That's close enough to divine might's 2:00 to be a nice easy deal of just refreshing both at the same time, as opposed to keeping track of two different counters.

I used to value extend quite a bit for zeal, but now that it's 1 minute per level I dropped extend like a bad habit.

I considered it but I really like the extended holy sword and zeal for longer quests and explorer areas. I'm a bit pickier with DM so I go longer between shrines. Same goes for resists.

I get what you are saying and I did even look to drop extend (and toughness ) when I took my pally out of retirement but for what?
I considered cleaves but sharing cooldowns with the pally EnH they aren't all that useful. Not seeing anything I kept extend and picked up stunning blow at 18.

On a THF toon I just don't see that much good stuff in feats that I would use more than extend. Maybe empower heal if I ever can get myself to grind through destinies for cocoon. Ill pick up OWcrit and per a haste feats in epic which means I could still get emphjeal.
Plus I still have toughness to burn off

EllisDee37
10-11-2014, 07:24 PM
I did [...] look to drop extend (and toughness ) when I took my pally out of retirement but for what?I consider Empower Heal a must have, which I take instead of your toughness. Ideally at level 12.

I now take Precision instead of Extend. Like you I dropped the two cleave feats.

Chimeran1
10-12-2014, 01:40 PM
I consider Empower Heal a must have, which I take instead of your toughness. Ideally at level 12.

I now take Precision instead of Extend. Like you I dropped the two cleave feats.

Empower heal I always figured was for healers/clerics, heal amp your lay on hands is 1000+, Crusader aura 80+
Why bother with precision, do you have a problem hitting?
With gear, miss chance should only be on a 1
The fortification bypass better than power Attack?
5 extra damage ( 8 if Bladeforged ) on a Crit multiplier is a whole lot of hurt you would be missing out on.
Comparable to 10 strength ( 16 if Bladeforged ) worth of damage mod.
Bastard sword will be 15-20 crit range, that's a lot of dps you would be missing out on if a SWF ( if you are going the DPS path )

Just curious, because I have heard the debate on power Attack and precision a few times.

EllisDee37
10-12-2014, 08:09 PM
Empower heal I always figured was for healers/clerics, heal amp your lay on hands is 1000+, Crusader aura 80+It's for cure spells.


Why bother with precision, [...] The fortification bypass better than power Attack?The bonus to hit is meaningless. The sole reason to take precision is the fort bypass, and yes, it is massively huge for undead, construct and plant quests, where everything you face has 100% fort. Much better than power attack. Consider if you build for fort bypass:

35% dragon's edge
25% precision
15% grim precision (twist from shadowdancer)
5% ship buff
---
80% fort bypass

Just comparing in a vacuum, as a paladin you'll almost certainly have a crit profile of 13-20x3 at a minimum, which is what you have with holy sword while using any falchion or (if you're into staff builds) a sireth. Let's call your base damage that multiplies with crits x. In 20 attacks, assuming you hit on a 2, that gives you 19x base damage before crits, plus an extra 16x on top of that from crits.

Assuming you're facing 100% fort mobs, like say you're running druid's deep, or any of the endgame undead quests/raids, or even brothers of the forge...

With power attack:
19*(x+5) = 19x + 95

With precision:
(19 + (25% of 8) * 2)x = (19 + 2*2)x = 23x

Comparing them:
23x = 19x+95
4x = 95
x = 23.75

That means if you do more than 23.75 damage per swing (which I sincerely hope you do), then precision is better than power attack against 100% fort mobs. I believe this also follows for any mobs with at least 25% more fort than you can bypass without precision.

EDIT: Power attack is worth 10 instead of 5 for THF. In that case, precision is better than power attack if you do at least 47.5 damage per swing. Which again, I sincerely hope you do.

unbongwah
10-12-2014, 09:00 PM
Ideally you have both, IMHO: Power Atk for zero-Fortification mobs or for using FotW / LD abilities, Precision for high-Fort mobs or ranged atks. But (A) a pure pally is still feat-starved and (B) Precision req's base DEX 13 and a lot of THF pallies dump DEX. So as always, it's a question of tradeoffs.

Toro12
10-12-2014, 11:06 PM
I consider Empower Heal a must have, which I take instead of your toughness. Ideally at level 12.

I now take Precision instead of Extend. Like you I dropped the two cleave feats.


Toughness is a remnant of a by-gone era, taken at level 1 or 3
Precision is out as dex is dump stAted

Never had the cleaves , when this toon was active they didn't give +[w] and had slow animations that lowered DPS.

She was in retirement bank toon purgatory a long time :(
----
What would you emp heal on ? An 8 sp CMW ?
Without anything to lower the cost it is cheaper to cast twice. Sure emp CSW for emergencies but still seems expensive.
When I go Cocoon I'll probably grab it till then extend is good enough.

EllisDee37
10-12-2014, 11:41 PM
What would you emp heal on ? An 8 sp CMW ?Yep.

moo_cow
10-13-2014, 12:08 AM
If you have the feats I would take both PA and Precision. Assuming you are running a falchion with fairly good dps both would have their advantages.

25 % precision for a decently built pally will nab you an extra 20 damage + per swing against fort mobs

+10 damage from PA would nab an extra 20 damage + against trash.

When I ran THF I did like to use PA more often for the momentum swings and such but I guess it depends on how you like to swing your weapon.

ChemE
10-13-2014, 09:55 PM
Decided to go THF, pure pally and human; at level 12 so far and I like it. Both healing and damage are very good.