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Wh070aa
09-29-2014, 10:49 AM
Harper tree and artificer stacking. Anyone has a idea what is, and what is not stacking? I assume arti spells are not stacking with Harper int to hit/damage stuff, but how does Battle Engineer stuff stack with Harper? Does not list as anti-requisites, but I could not find any info on it.

Thoden
09-29-2014, 02:24 PM
They are applying bonuses to two different things, so they stack. The BE line adds to hit and damage to specific weapons, while the Harper enhancements add to your general to hit and damage.

The Harper enhancements Strategic Combat I and II mean that you won't have to memorize Insightful Damage or Strikes (unless you want to save the enhancement points by only taking one and making up the difference with a spell).

Luxgolg
09-30-2014, 03:10 PM
They are applying bonuses to two different things, so they stack. The BE line adds to hit and damage to specific weapons, while the Harper enhancements add to your general to hit and damage.

The Harper enhancements Strategic Combat I and II mean that you won't have to memorize Insightful Damage or Strikes (unless you want to save the enhancement points by only taking one and making up the difference with a spell).

Does Insightful Damage stack with Strategic Combat II ?

unbongwah
09-30-2014, 04:07 PM
Does Insightful Damage stack with Strategic Combat II ?
No. Know the Angles will stack with either, though, so that's a net win for arties.

Luxgolg
10-01-2014, 10:22 AM
No. Know the Angles will stack with either, though, so that's a net win for arties.


Well that explains that then :(

Might pull all AP from Harper, go with original design and see that its at again

Singular
10-04-2014, 01:30 AM
Using the Harper tree, I've never had higher damage on Needle. My highest normal crit - w/out adrenaline - came in at just over 800 hp damage (w/the normal ones being around 400-500). Highest adrenaline crit is just over 4000 damage.

It's very much worth it!

Phaeton_Seraph
10-04-2014, 12:00 PM
Using the Harper tree, I've never had higher damage on Needle. My highest normal crit - w/out adrenaline - came in at just over 800 hp damage (w/the normal ones being around 400-500). Highest adrenaline crit is just over 4000 damage.

It's very much worth it!

What exactly do you think is working for you?

A few more questions:

Are you a pure Artie?
More Xbow-based than arcane?
Where did you scrounge your APs from to invest in the Harper tree?
Was there anything you gave up that you felt like it hurt your toon in some ways?







For Everone Else:

I'm also curious about this Melee Power and Versatile Adept. How does that compare to BE's Weapon Training?


Weapon Training: Select either Crossbows or Hand and a Half Weapons. Gain bonuses to Attack and Damage Rolls with the selected weapon types.

Crossbow Training: +1 to attack rolls with all crossbows. +1 to damage with non-repeating crossbows.
Hand and a Half Training: +1 to attack and damage rolls with Bastard Swords and Dwarven Waraxes. Your Glancing Blows with these weapons also have a +2% chance of producing magical weapon effects such as Flaming.


Versatile Adept I: [+1/+2/+3] Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power.

Singular
10-05-2014, 05:14 AM
What exactly do you think is working for you?

A few more questions:

Are you a pure Artie?
More Xbow-based than arcane?
Where did you scrounge your APs from to invest in the Harper tree?
Was there anything you gave up that you felt like it hurt your toon in some ways?


For Everone Else:

I'm also curious about this Melee Power and Versatile Adept. How does that compare to BE's Weapon Training?

For sure:

1. Yes. Always pure!
2. Yes, mostly xbow. I mainly use spells to CC - and Ruin for quick kills
3. I dropped most of Arcanotech

4. I answered that here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439717-Optimizing-a-pure-arti-for-EE?p=5445171&posted=1#post5445171

just above your post.

In short, I lost 3% crit, the infusions (was just getting used to using them for healing), decreased cost of emp/max but gained a ton of damage via the xbow.

You're Arcanotech, so just comparing dropping some BE to gain some Harper, you'd be losing more than me. It's worth it if you can carefully invest in the Int and spell power via Versatile Adept - I'd recommend to you to keep as many BE cores as possible since that increases the spell power granted from your rune arm. For me, Harper and BE stack, so I lost nothing. I think there's more damage given out of Harper though - if you ignore Endless Fusillade.

unbongwah
10-05-2014, 12:25 PM
Might pull all AP from Harper, go with original design and see that its at again
Don't forget Harper is the only PrE at present which adds Ranged Power; so that + KtA is a pretty good incentive for putting some APs into it if you can.

Luxgolg
10-06-2014, 08:52 AM
Don't forget Harper is the only PrE at present which adds Ranged Power; so that + KtA is a pretty good incentive for putting some APs into it if you can.

Flipping back and forth over the weekend while ED XP farming, There was a difference, but I'm still not convinced. I need to play with it next TR methinks.

Phaeton_Seraph
10-06-2014, 01:45 PM
For sure:

1. Yes. Always pure!
2. Yes, mostly xbow. I mainly use spells to CC - and Ruin for quick kills
3. I dropped most of Arcanotech

4. I answered that here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439717-Optimizing-a-pure-arti-for-EE?p=5445171&posted=1#post5445171

just above your post.

In short, I lost 3% crit, the infusions (was just getting used to using them for healing), decreased cost of emp/max but gained a ton of damage via the xbow.

You're Arcanotech, so just comparing dropping some BE to gain some Harper, you'd be losing more than me. It's worth it if you can carefully invest in the Int and spell power via Versatile Adept - I'd recommend to you to keep as many BE cores as possible since that increases the spell power granted from your rune arm. For me, Harper and BE stack, so I lost nothing. I think there's more damage given out of Harper though - if you ignore Endless Fusillade.

Thanks for the reply here, too.

So far I have Versatile Adept I&II. I took all 3 of Magical Endurance an Strategic Combat I (I do have the insightful damage buff always going).

I dumped a lot of the BE tree, I may have 1 tier of Crossbow. I dumped a bit of rune arm. I believe I did try to keep some core stuff.

In Arcanotech, I dumped everything on the dog, except Careless master. I took none of the Meta related stuff (I never do, though, it seems a poor return on investment).

As you might expect, I dumped a lot of the weapons related feats in favour of casting feats (I may have Precision and Improved Criticals). Basically, the repeater plinks to fill in wasted APMs, and is used when spells are inefective, or a combo thereof when I can only use the Det and Strike on certain mobs.


After these changes, I don't see a huge difference with my repeater. The numbers look different, but they total up fairly similarly, I think.

The rune arm simply doesn't charge as fast, hold it's charge and such. I don't think the damage itself has been affected.

My SP doesn't seem to be lasting longer, but I am throwing more spells, for sure.
It's hard to say if my spells are hitting harder...especially as mobs seem to be a little different than before the update (at least that what I felt I observed before I mucked with the Harper's tree). And, I haven't been running this artie enough, and when I have, I've been helping people with favour &c. The EE Servants and VoN I ran felt pretty good though.

I'm going to have to watch the numbers floating more carefully.


Generally, I'd been happy enough not to worry about getting down to power tweaking. I'm considering making a thunderhome caster weapon, but I don't think it has arcane augmentation the way my alchemical repeater does (arcane augmentation IX).

Singular
10-07-2014, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the reply here, too.

So far I have Versatile Adept I&II. I took all 3 of Magical Endurance an Strategic Combat I (I do have the insightful damage buff always going).

I dumped a lot of the BE tree, I may have 1 tier of Crossbow. I dumped a bit of rune arm. I believe I did try to keep some core stuff.

In Arcanotech, I dumped everything on the dog, except Careless master. I took none of the Meta related stuff (I never do, though, it seems a poor return on investment).

As you might expect, I dumped a lot of the weapons related feats in favour of casting feats (I may have Precision and Improved Criticals). Basically, the repeater plinks to fill in wasted APMs, and is used when spells are inefective, or a combo thereof when I can only use the Det and Strike on certain mobs.


After these changes, I don't see a huge difference with my repeater. The numbers look different, but they total up fairly similarly, I think.

The rune arm simply doesn't charge as fast, hold it's charge and such. I don't think the damage itself has been affected.

My SP doesn't seem to be lasting longer, but I am throwing more spells, for sure.
It's hard to say if my spells are hitting harder...especially as mobs seem to be a little different than before the update (at least that what I felt I observed before I mucked with the Harper's tree). And, I haven't been running this artie enough, and when I have, I've been helping people with favour &c. The EE Servants and VoN I ran felt pretty good though.

I'm going to have to watch the numbers floating more carefully.


Generally, I'd been happy enough not to worry about getting down to power tweaking. I'm considering making a thunderhome caster weapon, but I don't think it has arcane augmentation the way my alchemical repeater does (arcane augmentation IX).

I think spells will be harder to judge, for sure - but you can check to see if your spell power went up. If so, they should hit for more.

The one probably we all have is to find the balance we want between spell damage and repeater damage. So I guess you're going to be maxing your spell damage :)