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Aleph1368
09-17-2014, 12:58 PM
Hey folks,
This is my first post on this forum (or any, to be honest), so hopefully I'll get all the etiquette correct.
I've been preparing for my character's next life, and I'd really love to play a high-DPS ranged build, but not a sorc or wizard. Whenever I played D&D PnP I'd play a jack-of-all-trades rogue who used a bow in a fight but wasn't his forte. Finding that this doesn't really work well in DDO, my first life was basically a trap-monkey. My second life as an artificer was trap-monkey/melee DPS. So now I'm looking to get away from the traps and just focus on damage. One of my groupmates suggested a monkcher, but after some research it seems the consensus is monkcher, while more versatile, doesn't output as much DPS as a pure AA ranger can. So I played around with the character creator and this is the first iteration I designed. I'm very open to feedback, and thank you for taking your time with this!
(Also, sorry for the weird spacing on these tables. I used tables because the preview without tables came out hard to read, but I can't figure out how to make these columns closer together. If anyone can tell me I'll edit this so it's easier to read.)
Level 28 True Neutral Human Female
(20 Ranger / 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 422
Spell Points: 334

BAB: 20/20/25/30/30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 24
Will: 8


Abilities
(36-Point)
Strength
Dexterity
Constitution
Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma


Base Stats
(Level 1)
14
18
14
14
10
8


Base Stats
(Level 28)
19
31
19
19
15
13


Modified Stats
(Level 28)
19
35
19
19
15
13




Skills
Starting Base Skills (Level 1)
Ending Base Skills (Level 28)


Balance
6
23.5


Bluff
1
12.5


Concentration
2
4


Diplomacy
1
12.5


Disable Device
n/a
n/a


Haggle
-1
1


Heal
0
20


Hide
4
12


Intimidate
-1
1


Jump
6
27


Listen
4
25


Move Silently
4
12


Open Lock
n/a
n/a


Perform
n/a
n/a


Repair
2
4


Search
6
27


Spellcraft
2
4


Spot
4
25


Swim
2
4


Tumble
6
23.5


Use Magic Device
1
12.5



Ability raises go to DEX

Feats:
Favored Enemy: Undead
Point Blank Shot
Precision
Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Favored Enemy: Giant
Dodge
Mobility
Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Shot on the Run
Favored Enemy: Aberration
Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Toughness
Favored Enemy: Elf
Epic: Combat Archery
Epic: Great Dexterity
Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
Epic: Blinding Speed
Epic Destiny: Doubleshot

Enhancements:
Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Arcane Archer Dexterity (Rank 1) X2
Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Awareness (Rank 3)
Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 3)
Inferno Shot (Rank 3)
Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Attack Boost (Rank 3)
Moonbow (Rank 1)
Runebow (Rank 1)
Aligned Arrows (Rank 1)
Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Far Shot (Rank 1)
Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
Versatile Empathy (Rank 2)
Empathic Healing (Rank 1)
Sniper Shot (Rank 1)
Aimed Shot (Rank 1)
Deepwood Stalker Dexterity (Rank 1) X2
Damage Boost (Rank 3)

unbongwah
09-17-2014, 01:56 PM
One of my groupmates suggested a monkcher, but after some research it seems the consensus is monkcher, while more versatile, doesn't output as much DPS as a pure AA ranger can.
I dunno who told you that, but: they're wrong. In terms of sustained ranged-only DPS with a longbow, monkcher wins due to 10K Stars (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ten_Thousand_Stars); non-monkchers don't get anything as good, unfortunately. Pure rgr is about versatility with a dash of RPing flavor. See my Elven Ranger for examples.

I can't read your build in that format, but I will say that the only way to get DEX-to-dmg with longbows is Elven Grace, so DEX-based human is your first mistake.

Now I'll sit back and wait for someone to tell you that what you really want is a shuriken build. :cool:

Aleph1368
09-17-2014, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the speedy feedback! It's possible I was using outdated information, but the sources I found said you get less damage from Zen Archer build, you have fewer feats because of the ones automatically granted to rangers, and monkchers need to spread their ability points more thinly. I'll try to rebuild this idea using a monkcher that takes Zen Archery to facilitate 10k Stars with a bow. Is the idea behind this being able to bounce between 10k Stars and Manyshot to increase the effective dps?

unbongwah
09-17-2014, 04:00 PM
Is the idea behind this being able to bounce between 10k Stars and Manyshot to increase the effective dps?
Correct.

Now the drawbacks to monkchers are:
(A) They're more stat-constrained than other builds, since you need high WIS for 10K Stars and enough base DEX to take your ranged feats; plus either high STR (w/Bow STR) or high DEX (w/Elven Grace) for your dmg-per-hit. Plus some CON, ofc: a dead monkcher is an useless monkcher. :) [And if you have access to Div Might, you'll want to invest in some CHA.] Non-monkchers usually dump WIS to focus on other stats.
(B) They tend to be more backloaded than other builds b/c it takes a while before you have all your really good ranged feats, namely Manyshot, 10K Stars, and Imp Prec Shot. Depending on how you build one, you're often better off using melee at low lvls and only switch to full-time ranged in, say, the teen lvls.

Anyway, there are several different ways of building a monkcher, but I like to start with monk 6 / rgr 6. You need at least 6 monk lvls to take 10K Stars; it also gets you 3 free feats (e.g., Zen Archery, Precision, 10K), Adept of Forms, and various PrE perks (e.g., Shadow Veil, Deft Strikes if you also melee). Rgr 6 provides a bunch of free feats, ofc, as well as access to rgr PrEs; in particular, you can take almost all of AA, which lets you play something other than an elf or HE; and Sniper Shot from DWS is a pretty nice ranged atk, esp. while MS or 10K is active. Then it's a question of what to do with your remaining 8 lvls: more rgr for extra feats & higher lvl spells? More monk for Imp Evasion & higher-tier stances? A third class like, say, ftr to add more feats?

Just to point out a few options: Santa's Little Slayer (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431464-Santa-s-Little-Slayer-Another-Elfin-Centered-Kensai) (the U23 change to Overwhelming Crit means you can drop STR a lot); Sestra's old AA (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429975-Sestra-s-Build-Thread?p=5378670&viewfull=1#post5378670); a 28pt elf DEX build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445916-%2812-FTR-6-RGR-2-MNK%29-I-beg-you!-Help-me-build-this!-%28New-player%29?p=5387283&viewfull=1#post5387283) I put together.

Aleph1368
09-19-2014, 02:25 PM
Thanks again for all your help! I think a big part of my initial confusion was without 20 rgr there's no way to get the Master of Imbuement enhancement, and I thought the passive +20% chance doubleshot was better than actively using 10K Stars and Manyshot. But I ran a quick, rudimentary monkcher build with your 6 monk/6 ranger starting suggestion and then finishing with ranger; it seems that based on how 10K Stars and Manyshot determine chance to fire an additional projectile, while those are active it should outweigh the Master of Imbuement. I'll probably tinker with it a bit more, as I have plenty of time before we TR again, but I'm confident your recommendations have built a much more effective ranged DPS character! Thank you!

unbongwah
09-19-2014, 04:41 PM
The problem is the Doubleshot (http://ddowiki.com/page/Doubleshot) penalties from 10K Stars and Manyshot render Doubleshot bonuses largely useless to monkchers. But if you don't use those feats, you're missing out on a lot of burst DPS as an archer.

BTW, if you still wanted the AA capstone on a monkcher, you can take the elf or half-elf racial AA PrE instead of the rgr version.

Tilomere
09-20-2014, 06:14 AM
Pure rangers are hybrid healer/buffers/ranged/melee. Pure Ranger DPS = does not compute.

Grailhawk
09-22-2014, 06:21 PM
Pure rangers are hybrid healer/buffers/ranged/melee. Pure Ranger DPS = does not compute.

Pure Ranger Melee DPS is easily still in the top 10% of all builds yes the top 2 (Swashbuckler and Paladin) melee builds do a good 10-20% more damage but pure Rangers are not at the level of does not compute. They can stand up to the Cetus builds.