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Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:09 AM
Greetings DDO Players,

I am a member of the Player's Council 2014, acting completely independently from the Developers in this thread which is neither approved of or disapproved of by the Devs. I call this the Lost Trees Project, hoping to help press the Devs forward in creating a third tree for Artificer, Druid, and Favored Soul. Technically, Sorcerers already have 5 trees, but one could easily make the point that Savant is actually 4 copies of the same tree, which leaves grounds to press a possible new tree for Sorcerers.

Up front I want to make several things clear, I have no idea when an additional Sorcerer tree will be made if ever. The Devs has hinted publicly that they would like for every class to have three trees. This project is not part of the current NDA list.

Hopefully we can sort thru and create another sample tree besides the Warmage tree https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446038-Warmage-Project-Sorcerer-tree as it presented difficulties being a evocation specialist tree which is exactly what the Savant trees are. At one time long ago, the Devs suggested they were interested in Acoylyte of the Skin for a Sorcerer tree and thread will explore that possibility as well as variation and side paths created by such exploration.

I appreciate all the help on the Warmage tree but would like a second option for the Devs not knowing what their decisions will be.

As a member of the Player's Council, I am allowed to present my own personal projects and vision for the future of DDO.

When we are done here, there will be a permanent placement of our theories and ideas into the Player's Council Forums, and I will press the Developer to work towards these new trees. Even if these don't not take place until after I leave the Player's Council at the end of the year, those ideas will still remain behind to inspire the Developers.

Thank you for your help and feedback, it is appreciated and a link to this thread will be included in that final report to the developers.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:10 AM
I felt that this was definitely worth posting for the Devs to examine.
{Core 12 bladebarrier needs moving to capstone or removing, capstones might be a bit strong, but we need that kind of thing. This tree should be considered for both a possible Warlock and existing Sorcerer.

It is a bit of a power upgrade from round 3 which is also worth looking at. I was pondering adding melee power +1/+1/+1/+2/+2/+2 to the core Hezzy, repeating with ranged on Orthon, and adding 1d4 poison every 2 seconds per core Pit Fiend.

Removed rerolled round 1 due to space limitations.


Acolyte of the Skin Rerolled Round 4? (Bonus Round by Edrein)


Core abilities

Acolyte of the Skin I: Choose an outsider essence to summon to begin the Mysterious Bonding Rituals, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence. In addition, each enhancement point spent in the Acolyte of the Skin tree grants +1 Universal Spell Power to all spells and +1 to your Maximum Spell points.

Succubus I: Charm Person: Spell Like Ability: Charm Person (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon I: You gain proficiency with light crossbows and can use your charisma score to hit with crossbows.

Hezrou I: You gain martial weapons profiency,10 PPR and MRR. (Each core ability after this one grants +10 HP and 2/good DR.)

Mind Flayer I: Hypnotism: Spell Like Ability: Hypnotism (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend I: You gain martial weapons proficiency and 15hp.

Bezekira I: Invisibility: Spell Like Ability: Invisibility (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder I: Ray of Enfeeblement: Spell Like Ability: Ray of Enfeeblement (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith I: You gain martial weapons proficieny, 10 HP and -5% ASF. (EAch core ability after this one grants +7hp and -5% ASF.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: Sorcerer Level 1



Acolyte of the Skin II: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus II: Otto's Resistible Dance : Spell Like Ability: Otto's Resistible Dance (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon II: You can now use your charisma score to damage with crossbows.

Hezrou II: You gain an Aura of Stench; providing 5% attack slow, -XX attack damage, and -1 saves to all enemies within a 15ft radius. (This Aura will increase/multiply/stack per YY time with each core rank, to a cap of 20% slow, 15-25% damage, and -4 to 6 saves.)

Mindflayer II: Mind Blast: This attack is a standard conal AOE. Anyone caught in this cone must succeed at a Will save (DC 17 + Charisma Score + 1/2 Warlock/Sorcerer Level) or be stunned for 5-10 seconds.

Pit Fiend II: Like a true pit fiend your melee attacks drip of your venom: Your MELEE attacks now deal 1d6 Supernatural Poison. (This damage increases by 1 die at each core until capped at 5d6. This damage is also increased by Melee Power.)

Bezekira II: Blindness : Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder II: Dispel Magic : Spell Like Ability: Dispel Magic (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith II: Haste : Spell Like Ability: Haste (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin I, Sorcerer Level 3



Acolyte of the Skin III: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus III: Charm Monster : Spell Like Ability: Charm Monster (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon III: Your Orthon skin has enabled you to increase the power of your crossbow: Your RANGED attacks now deal 1d6 + sonic spellpower/Ranged power. (This ability further increases in damage at ranks 12 and 18, increasing to 3d6 and 5d6 respectfully.)

Hezrou III: Infernal Power: +4 profane bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus to Fortitude saves, and 10% melee attack speed for 30 seconds. (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 45 seconds.)

Mind Flayer III: Hold Person : Spell Like Ability: Hold Person (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend III: Tail Lash: You swing your tail outward in an attempt to damage and trip enemies in a small radius. You 'cleave' for +1W and perform a trip effect with a reflex DC of (insert reasonable number). (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 15 seconds.)

Bezekira III: Haste : Spell Like Ability: Haste (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder III: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability : Spell Like Ability: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith III: Rage : Spell Like Ability: Rage (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin II, Sorcerer Level 6



Acolyte of the Skin IV: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus IV: Mind Fog : Spell Like Ability: Mind Fog (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon IV: Rapid Fire: You gain 20% ranged alacrity for 30 seconds. (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 45 seconds.)

Hezrou IV: Multiselector; Unholy Blight or Chaos Hammer: both spells are added to your spell list.

Mind Flayer IV: Feeblemind : Spell Like Ability: Feeblemind (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend IV: Burning Blood : Spell Like Ability: Burning Blood (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira IV: Displacement : Spell Like Ability: Displacement (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder IV: Break Enchantment : Spell Like Ability: Break Enchantment (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith IV: Blade Barrier : Spell Like Ability: Blade Barrier (Activation Cost: 50 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin III, Sorcerer Level 12



Acolyte of the Skin V: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus V: Dominate Monster : Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon V: Your skin has become corrupted and filled with maggots like an Orthon: You gain Maggot Guard; when struck by an enemy you deal 10d4 Evil Damage. (This ability scales with Light Spellpower/Ranged Power.)

Hezrou V: Infernal Warmachine: You gain +4 alchemical strength and constitution, full BAB, and +10% doublestrike. However, you have grown accustomed to using fury over magic and receive -2 to spell DCs and all spells gain a 1.5 increase to their cooldowns. (Activation Cost: 100 SP. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

Mind Flayer V: Hold Monster : Spell Like Ability: Hold Monster (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend V: Demonic Glide: Rush forward up to 30 feet to your selected opponent and cleave all enemies around you for 3W and deal 5d8 + Melee Power Evil Damage as well. (Activation Cost: 35 SP. Cooldown: 15 sec

Bezekira V: Prismatic Spray : Spell Like Ability: Prismatic Spray (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder V: Globe of Invulnerability : Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith V: Tenser's Transformation : Spell Like Ability: Tenser's Transformation (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin IV, Sorcerer Level 18




Master of the Skin: Through extensive training and countless hours of study, you have finished the Ritual of Bonding. You gain +2 Charisma, and +2 Constitution, You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons. You have racial immunity to natural poisons and sleep. You gain +15% universal energy absorption. Your SLAs from the Acolyte of the Skin tree now cost 50% less sp to cast. Additionally you gain benefits based on your Skin;

Succubus: +4 to all Enchantment and Illusion based DCs.

Orthon Mastery: 10% doubleshot and 5% primal ranged alacrity.

Hezrou Mastery: 5% chance to apply 4 random ability damage per attack.

Mindflayer: Extract Brain: Spell Like Ability: Finger of Death. (Activation Cost: 25 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds.) This uses Charisma and Illusion DC. It only works within melee range, requiring a form of CC beforehand.

Pit Fiend Mastery: Meteor Swarm: Spell Like Ability: Meteor Swarm. (Activation Cost: 25 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds.)

Bezerika: Knock down enemies for 2 seconds on vorpal hit. Enemies knocked down by this effect are considered helpless.

Beholder: Eye Beam: Spell Like Ability: Prismatic Ray. (Activation Cost: 25 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds.)

Marilith: You gain 10% doublestrike, 15% offhand doublestrike, and 30 PRR and MRR.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 40 Requires: Acolyte of the Skin V, Sorcerer Level 20



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff, Concentration, and Spellcraft +1/+2/+3

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture changes passively according to your skin selection. You gain +4 natural armor. (Possible wings, face tentacles, horns, eye-stalk, etc. You aren't supposed to be pleasant to look at.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Superiority of the Outsiders I: Passive: Your total Arcane Spell Failure chance is reduced by 3%/6%/10%.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Outsider Defense: You Gain a stacking +4 DR / Good for every Acolyte of the Skin Core ability you posses.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: None


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II: Whenever you fail a concentration check, you automatically succeed the next two concentration checks you make in the next 3/6/10 seconds..

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +5 PPR and +5 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I1


Superiority of the Outsiders II: +5%/+10%/+15% to apply Planar Superiority to wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells. Planar Superiority applies a stacking +100% effectiveness.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders I


Power of the Pit II: You gain +2 to hit and damage with all weapons, 2 melee power/ranged power, and 1% doublestrike/doubleshot.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Summon Fiend I: Any Non Good Outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +50% fortification, +15 PPR, and +15 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirements



Tier Three

Deceptive Life of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 4/3/2 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: False/Greater False/Superior False Life every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 2/5/7 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 No Requirements


Skin adaptation III: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Superiority of the Outsiders III: +20%/+30%/+40% when cast for your spells to be considered +2 spell level.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements



Tier Four

Blindness Planar Madness: Your attacks and spells have a 5% chance of applying Blindness to foes. This can only trigger once every five seconds.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Bestow Curse Planar Madness: Your attacks and spells have a 5% chance of applying Bestow Curse to foes. This can only trigger once every three seconds.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Contagion Planar Madness: Your attacks and spells have a 5% chance of randomly applying a version of Contagion to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every 7 seconds.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Power of the Pit IV: You gain +2 to hit and damage with all weapons, 2 melee power/ranged power, and 1% doublestrike/doubleshot.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school or 3% doublestrike/doubleshot and 3 Melee/Ranged Power.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Fiendish Strength: You gain an Insight bonus to Damage, Doublestrike, and Attack Speed equal to your 1/2 Charisma modifier for 30/60/120 seconds

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Spell Penetration: +1/+2/+3 to your Caster Level check to overcome enemy spell resistance.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Ablative of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 5 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: Ablative Armor every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 1 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Deceptive Life of the Pit


Summon Fiend II: Any Non Good Outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Summon Fiend I





.............................


Acolyte of the Skin Rerolled Round 3


Core abilities

Acolyte of the Skin I: Choose an outsider essence to summon to begin the Mysterious Bonding Rituals, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence. In addition, each enhancement point spent in the Acolyte of the Skin tree grants +1 Universal Spell Power to all spells and +1 to your Maximum Spell points.

Succubus I: Charm Person: Spell Like Ability: Charm Person (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon I: Shield: Spell Like Ability: Shield (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou I: Cause Fear: Spell Like Ability: Cause Fear (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer I: Hypnotism: Spell Like Ability: Hypnotism (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend I: Sonic Blast : Spell Like Ability: Sonic Blast (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira I: Invisibility: Spell Like Ability: Invisibility (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder I: Chill Touch: Spell Like Ability: Chill Touch (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith I: Gust of Wind: Spell Like Ability: Gust of Wind (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: Sorcerer Level 1



Acolyte of the Skin II: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus II: Otto's Resistible Dance : Spell Like Ability: Otto's Resistible Dance (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon II: Blur : Spell Like Ability: Blur (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou II: Daze Monster: Spell Like Ability: Daze Monster (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer II: Ooze Puppet : Spell Like Ability: Ooze Puppet (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend II: Resist Energy : Spell Like Ability: Resist Energy (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira II: Blindness : Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder II: Dispel Magic : Spell Like Ability: Dispel Magic (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith II: Slow : Spell Like Ability: Slow (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin I, Sorcerer Level 3



Acolyte of the Skin III: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus III: Charm Monster : Spell Like Ability: Charm Monster (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon III: Stoneskin : Spell Like Ability: Stoneskin (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou III: Chaos Hammer : Spell Like Ability: Chaos Hammer (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer III: Hold Person : Spell Like Ability: Hold Person (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend III: Bestow Curse : Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira III: Haste : Spell Like Ability: Haste (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder III: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability : Spell Like Ability: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith III: Rage : Spell Like Ability: Rage (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin II, Sorcerer Level 6



Acolyte of the Skin IV: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus IV: Mind Fog : Spell Like Ability: Mind Fog (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon IV: Tenser's Transformation : Spell Like Ability: Tenser's Transformation (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou IV: Fear : Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer IV: Feeblemind : Spell Like Ability: Feeblemind (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend IV: Wall of Fire : Spell Like Ability: Wall of Fire (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira IV: Displacement : Spell Like Ability: Displacement (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder IV: Break Enchantment : Spell Like Ability: Break Enchantment (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith IV: Solid Fog : Spell Like Ability: Solid Fog (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin III, Sorcerer Level 12



Acolyte of the Skin V: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus V: Dominate Monster : Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon V: Acid Fog : Spell Like Ability: Acid Fog (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou V: Crushing Despair : Spell Like Ability: Crushing Despair (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer V: Hold Monster : Spell Like Ability: Hold Monster (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend V: Burning Blood : Spell Like Ability: Burning Blood (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira V: Prismatic Spray : Spell Like Ability: Prismatic Spray (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder V: Globe of Invulnerability : Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith V: Cyclonic Blast : Spell Like Ability: Cyclonic Blast (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin IV, Sorcerer Level 18




Master of the Skin: Through extensive training and countless hours of study, you have finished the Ritual of Bonding. You gain +2 Charisma, and +2 Constitution, You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons. You have racial immunity to natural poisons and sleep. You gain +15% universal energy absorption. Your SLAs from the Acolyte of the Skin tree now cost 50% less sp to cast.


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 40 Requires: Acolyte of the Skin V, Sorcerer Level 20



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff, Concentration, and Spellcraft +1/+2/+3

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to a color according to the essence you have chosen. You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Superiority of the Outsiders I: Passive: Your total Arcane Spell Failure chance is reduced by 3%/6%/10%.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Outsider Defense: You Gain a stacking +4 DR / Good for every Acolyte of the Skin Core ability you posses.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: None


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II: Whenever you fail a concentration check, you automatically succeed the next two concentration checks you make in the next 3/6/10 seconds..

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +5 PPR and +5 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I1


Superiority of the Outsiders II: +5%/+10%/+15% to apply Planar Superiority to wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells. Planar Superiority applies a stacking +100% effectiveness.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders I


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Summon Fiend I: Any Non Good Outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +50% fortification, +15 PPR, and +15 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirements



Tier Three

Deceptive Life of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 2 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: False Life every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 2 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No Requirements


Skin adaptation III: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Superiority of the Outsiders III: +10%/+20%/+30% when cast for your spells to be considered +1 spell level.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements



Tier Four

Blindness Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of applying Blindness to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Blindness had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Blindness is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Bestow Curse Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of applying Bestow Curse to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Bestow Curse had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Bestow Curse is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Contagion Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of randomly applying a version of Contagion to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Contagion had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Contagion is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Prismatic Ray Activation Cost: 10 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Spell Penetration: +1/+2/+3 to your Caster Level check to overcome enemy spell resistance.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Ablative of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 5 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: Ablative Armor every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 1 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Deceptive Life of the Pit


Summon Fiend II: Any Non Good Outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Summon Fiend I








............................



Acolyte of the Skin Rerolled Round 2


Core abilities

Acolyte of the Skin I: Choose an outsider essence to summon to begin the Mysterious Bonding Rituals, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence. In addition, each enhancement point spent in the Acolyte of the Skin tree grants +1 Universal Spell Power to all spells and +1 to your Maximum Spell points.

Succubus I: Charm Person: Spell Like Ability: Charm Person (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon I: Shield: Spell Like Ability: Shield (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou I: Cause Fear: Spell Like Ability: Cause Fear (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer I: Hypnotism: Spell Like Ability: Hypnotism (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend I: Sonic Blast : Spell Like Ability: Sonic Blast (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira I: Invisibility: Spell Like Ability: Invisibility (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder I: Chill Touch: Spell Like Ability: Chill Touch (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith I: Gust of Wind: Spell Like Ability: Gust of Wind (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: Sorcerer Level 1



Acolyte of the Skin II: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus II: Otto's Resistible Dance : Spell Like Ability: Otto's Resistible Dance (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon II: Blur : Spell Like Ability: Blur (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou II: Daze Monster: Spell Like Ability: Daze Monster (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer II: Ooze Puppet : Spell Like Ability: Ooze Puppet (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend II: Resist Energy : Spell Like Ability: Resist Energy (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira II: Blindness : Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder II: Dispel Magic : Spell Like Ability: Dispel Magic (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith II: Slow : Spell Like Ability: Slow (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin I, Sorcerer Level 3



Acolyte of the Skin III: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus III: Charm Monster : Spell Like Ability: Charm Monster (Activation Cost: 3 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon III: Stoneskin : Spell Like Ability: Stoneskin (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou III: Chaos Hammer : Spell Like Ability: Chaos Hammer (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer III: Hold Person : Spell Like Ability: Hold Person (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend III: Bestow Curse : Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira III: Haste : Spell Like Ability: Haste (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder III: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability : Spell Like Ability: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith III: Rage : Spell Like Ability: Rage (Activation Cost: 6 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin II, Sorcerer Level 6



Acolyte of the Skin IV: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus IV: Mind Fog : Spell Like Ability: Mind Fog (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon IV: Tenser's Transformation : Spell Like Ability: Tenser's Transformation (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou IV: Fear : Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer IV: Feeblemind : Spell Like Ability: Feeblemind (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend IV: Wall of Fire : Spell Like Ability: Wall of Fire (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira IV: Displacement : Spell Like Ability: Displacement (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder IV: Break Enchantment : Spell Like Ability: Break Enchantment (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith IV: Solid Fog : Spell Like Ability: Solid Fog (Activation Cost: 10 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin III, Sorcerer Level 12



Acolyte of the Skin V: The Mysterious Bonding Rituals continues, gaining a Spell Like Ability from that essence.

Succubus V: Dominate Monster : Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Orthon V: Acid Fog : Spell Like Ability: Acid Fog (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Hezrou V: Crushing Despair : Spell Like Ability: Crushing Despair (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Mind Flayer V: Hold Monster : Spell Like Ability: Hold Monster (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Pit Fiend V: Burning Blood : Spell Like Ability: Burning Blood (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Bezekira V: Prismatic Spray : Spell Like Ability: Prismatic Spray (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Beholder V: Globe of Invulnerability : Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Marilith V: Cyclonic Blast : Spell Like Ability: Cyclonic Blast (Activation Cost: 15 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Requires: Acolyte of the Skin IV, Sorcerer Level 18




Master of the Skin: Through extensive training and countless hours of study, you have finished the Ritual of Bonding. You gain +2 Charisma, and +2 Constitution, You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons. You have racial immunity to natural poisons and sleep. You gain +15% universal energy absorption. Your SLAs from the Acolyte of the Skin tree now cost 50% less sp to cast.


AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 40 Requires: Acolyte of the Skin V, Sorcerer Level 20



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff, Concentration, and Spellcraft +1/+2/+3

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to a color according to the essence you have chosen. You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Superiority of the Outsiders I: Passive: Your total Arcane Spell Failure chance is reduced by 2%/4%/6%.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Outsider Defense: You Gain a stacking +4 DR / Good for every Acolyte of the Skin Core ability you posses.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: None


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II: Whenever you fail a concentration check, you automatically succeed the next two concentration checks you make in the next 3/6/10 seconds..

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +5 PPR and +5 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I1


Superiority of the Outsiders II: +5%/+10%/+15% to apply Planar Superiority to wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells. Planar Superiority applies a stacking +100% effectiveness.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders I


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Summon Fiend I: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +50% fortification, +15 PPR, and +15 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirements



Tier Three

Deceptive Life of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 2 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: False Life every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 2 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No Requirements


Skin adaptation III: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Superiority of the Outsiders III: +5%/+10%/+15% when cast for your spells to be considered +1/+2/+3 spell level. This does not stack with Heighten Spell Metamagic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements



Tier Four

Blindness Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of applying Blindness to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Blindness had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Blindness is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Bestow Curse Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of applying Bestow Curse to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Bestow Curse had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Bestow Curse is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Contagion Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of randomly applying a version of Contagion to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Contagion had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Contagion is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Prismatic Ray Activation Cost: 10 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Spell Penetration: +1/+2/+3 to your Caster Level check to overcome enemy spell resistance.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Ablative of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 5 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: Ablative Armor every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 1 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Deceptive Life of the Pit


Summon Fiend II: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Summon Fiend I





.................................................. .................





Acolyte of the Skin round 8


Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Quasit: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small Quasit hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This Quasit is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The Quasit will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the Quasit is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Aura of Fiendish Fear, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +66.6% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +66.6% electric absorption


Capstone Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)
You gain: +2 Cha +2 Con

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick). You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation II: You gain +5 PPR and +5 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking DR [2/4/6] / Good for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10% acid absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws against Magic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Summon Fiend I: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +50% fortification, +15 PPR, and +15 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Three

Inherit Spell Knowledge: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Order's Wrath as a level 4 spell.

Demon: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Path of Heresy I:

Deceptive Life of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 2 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: False Life every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 2 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No Requirements


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Planar Madness: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Your Imp now does Acid damage instead of Fire. Your Shield of Blasphemy now affects vulnerability to Acid instead of Fire.

Demon: Your Quasit now does Cold damage instead of Electric. Your Shield of Blasphemy now affects vulnerability to Cold instead of Electric.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep. You gain +10 PPR and +10 MMR

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Fiendish Glare: Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy IV:

Ablative of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 5 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: Ablative Armor every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 1 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Path of Heresy III


Summon Fiend II: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Summon Fiend I

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:11 AM
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/420079-Acolyte-of-the-Skin-a-suggestion-and-a-thread-to-discuss

Wow, an entire thread on this subject, definitely worth reading.
THANK YOU!

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:12 AM
Very nice, when we start talking about self healing and the like, its a good sign others things are looking good.


Ok, into the notes section on the front page:

Want self healing options including one or more of the following, etc:



Better potions to drink


New spell ~ Greater False Life granting 50~100 temp hp.


Option for Imp/Quasit to do healing pulses every X seconds for YdZ positive energy.


Palemaster has self healing, would like to see something for Sorcerer as well.





That will do for starters, will ponder more.

.......................


Older tree rounds here:

Acolyte of the Skin round 7


Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Quasit: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small Quasit hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This Quasit is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The Quasit will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the Quasit is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Aura of Fiendish Fear, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +33% stacking fire absorption

Demon: You gain +33% stacking electric absorption


Capstone Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)
You gain: +2 Cha +2 Con

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Path of Heresy I: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking DR [2/4/6] / Good for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +10% electric absorption

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws against Magic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Tier Three

Inherit Spell Knowledge: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Order's Wrath as a level 4 spell.

Demon: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Flaming Sphere Spell Like Ability: Flaming Sphere (Activation Cost: 2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 2 spell.)

Demon: False Life Spell Like Ability: False Life (Activation Cost: 2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 2 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10% acid absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Planar Madness: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Your Imp now does Acid damage instead of Fire.

Demon: Your Quasit now does Cold damage instead of Electric.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Path of Heresy IV: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy III


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Fiendish Glare: Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy V: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy IV


Summon Fiend: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements




...................................



Acolyte of the Skin round 6


Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Quasit: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small Quasit hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This Quasit is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The Quasit will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the Quasit is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Aura of Fiendish Fear, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +33% stacking fire absorption

Demon: You gain +33% stacking electric absorption


Capstone Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)
You gain: +2 Cha +2 Con

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Path of Heresy I: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking DR [2/4/6] / Good for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +10% electric absorption

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws against Magic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Tier Three

Inherit Spell Knowledge: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Order's Wrath as a level 4 spell.

Demon: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10% acid absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Planar Madness: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Your Imp now does Acid damage instead of Fire.

Demon: Your Quasit now does Cold damage instead of Electric.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Path of Heresy IV: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy III


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Fiendish Glare: Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy V: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy IV


Summon Fiend: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements

...............


Acolyte of the Skin round 4


Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Quasit: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small Quasit hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This Quasit is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The Quasit will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the Quasit is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Aura of Fiendish Fear, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +33% stacking fire absorption

Demon: You gain +33% stacking electric absorption


Capstone Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)
You gain: +2 Cha +2 Con

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Path of Heresy I: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking DR [2/4/6] / Good for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +10% electric absorption

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws against Magic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Tier Three

Inherit Spell Knowledge: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Order's Wrath as a level 4 spell.

Demon: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10% acid absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Planar Madness: Your spells have a 2% chance of triggering the Vortex of Madness which can trigger only once every 60/45/30 seconds. Vortex of Madness adds a random effect to your spells. {I'll let Varg and Sev figured out the random effect charts, or they can plug into Colors of the Queen instead.}

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Path of Heresy IV: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy III


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Fiendish Glare: Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy V: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy IV


Summon Fiend: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements




.................................................. ........



Acolyte of the Skin round 3


Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and poison-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Quasit: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small Quasit hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This Quasit is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The Quasit will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the Quasit is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Aura of Fiendish Fear, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +33% stacking fire absorption

Demon: You gain +33% stacking electric absorption


Capstone Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)
You gain: +2 Cha +2 Con

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.



Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Path of Heresy I: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking DR [2/4/6] / Good for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +10% electric absorption

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws against Magic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Tier Three

Inherit Spell Knowledge: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Order's Wrath as a level 4 spell.

Demon: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10% acid absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Outsider Defenses I: Passive: When your HP drops below 50% of maximum, you are immediately protected by an Profane Barrier that reduces all incoming damage by 10% for the next 20/40/60 seconds. This effect may only trigger once every 180/150/120 seconds.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Path of Heresy IV: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy III


Power of the Pit IV: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Outsider Defenses II: Your profane barrier now reduces 20% of incoming damage.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 Requirement: Outsider Defenses I


Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Fiendish Glare: Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy V: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy IV


Summon Fiend: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements





........................................



Acolyte of the Skin round 2


Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non lawful alignment.


Core 3
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Aura of Menace: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Aura of Menace, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18
Defense of the Pit Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 0 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)


Capstone +2 Cha +2 Con
Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 0 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)



Tier One

Outsider Defenses I: You gain DR/Good 3

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Path of Heresy I: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +2% electric spell critical chance

Demon: You gain +2% electric spell critical chance

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Tier Two

Outsider Defenses II: You gain DR/Good 7

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Outsider Defenses I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +10% electric absorption

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 to all saving throws against Magic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit I: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirements


Tier Three

Outsider Defenses III: You gain DR/Good 12
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Outsider Defenses II


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% stacking fire absorption

Demon: You gain +10% stacking electric absorption

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10% acid absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit II: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 Requirement: Power of the Pit I


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Outsider Defenses IV: You gain DR/Good 18
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Outsider Defenses III


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Path of Heresy IV: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy III


Power of the Pit III: Your spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Outsider Defenses V: You gain DR/Good 25

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Outsider Defenses IV


Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Fiendish Glare: Spell Like Ability: Fear (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy V: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy IV


Summon Fiend: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has +200% fortification, +50 PPR, and +50 MMR.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements






..................................................


Sample rough possible Acolyte of the Skin round 1


Core 1 Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon.
Requires: Any non lawful alignment.

Core 3

Demon path ???

Devil path ???


Core 6

Demon path ???

Devil path ???


Core 12 ????

Demon path ???

Devil path ???


Core 18

Demon path ???

Devil path ???


Capstone +2 Cha +2 Con

Chain Target SLA ~ fuzzy math here.


Tier One

Outsider Defenses I: Spell Like Ability: Shield (Activation Cost: 3 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements

Summon Fiend II: You summon an Imp who grants you various bonuses chosen from a multi-select list:
Chose a bonus that you have not already chosen:

Suggestions welcome.

Unfortunately the IMP does not battle creatures but it is indestructible.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Outsider Defenses II: Spell Like Ability: False Life (Activation Cost: 4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Outsider Defenses I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Hyponotism Spell Like Ability: Spell Like Ability: Hypnotism (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirement.


Summon Fiend II: You summon an Imp who grants you various bonuses chosen from a multi-select list:
Chose a bonus that you have not already chosen:

Suggestions welcome.

Unfortunately the IMP does not battle creatures but it is indestructible.
Your Summon Fiend learn new vocabulary.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Summon Fiend I



Tier Three

Outsider Defenses III: Spell Like Ability: Displacement (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Outsider Defenses II


Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Outsider Defenses II


Skin adaptation III: You gain +10 fire absorption.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Summon Fiend III: You summon an Imp who grants you various bonuses chosen from a multi-select list:
Chose a bonus that you have not already chosen:

Suggestions welcome ~ need about six total.

Unfortunately the IMP does not battle creatures but it is indestructible.
Your Summon Fiend learn new vocabulary.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Summon Fiend II


Shrug off damage ~ massive protection clicky with huge cooldown.



Tier Four

Outsider Defenses IV: Spell Like Ability: Stoneskin (Activation Cost: 6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Outsider Defenses III


Skin adaptation IV: You gain +10% cold absorption.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Skin adaptation III


Fiendish Glare: Needs conversion to DDO: The target becomes shaken for 10 minutes, and must also attempt a Will save (DC 10 + acolyte's class level + Cha modifier) or be stunned
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Summon Fiend IV: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has +100% fortification, +25 PPR, and +25 MMR.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Summon Fiend III


Dominate Person Spell Like Ability: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Person (Activation Cost: 30/20/10 SP. Cooldown: 18/15/12 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirement.




Tier Five

Outsider Defenses V: Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 7 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Outsider Defenses IV


Skin adaptation V: The fiendish skin and acolyte become one, and only final death can separate them. The acolyte's type changes to outsider. Additionally, an acolyte of this level gains damage reduction 10/good.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Glare of the Pit: Needs conversion to DDO: an acolyte has the supernatural ability to produce fiery rays from his eyes. Once per day as a standard action, he can project two rays (one from each eye) with a range of 100 feet. Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 8d6 points of fire damage. The rays can be aimed at two different targets within range, but the target of each ray must be designated simultaneously.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Fiendish Glare


Summon Fiend V: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has augment summoning applied to it.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Summon Fiend IV


Dominate Monster Spell Like Ability: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 30/20/10 SP. Cooldown: 18/15/12 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 Requirement: Dominate Person.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:13 AM
I want to start out broad and not narrow things down too fast.

1) What do you most want to see added to Sorcerers?

2) Do you feel the name Acoylyte of the Skin will break the game's teen rating and hence needs renaming?

3) Is there any particular theme you want pursued?

4) Ideas in general are very welcome.


Thank you, very much for your help.
I cannot do this on my own.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:40 AM
http://dndtools.eu/classes/acolyte-of-the-skin/

Reading thru this I see a few points of interest:

Like Divine Disciple we could a double path: Devil or Demon path.

Also: An acolyte of the skin summons the essence of a fiend and wears it like a second skin.

This approach seems to avoid destroying our teen rating as the ritual summon an essence and not a being.

Also: Special: Must have made peaceful contact with a summoned evil outsider.

This also indicates a more peaceful approach to the theme, avoiding some DM's adult rating handling of the subject matter.


So a further question arises: "What other summoned evil outsiders are there, and should we include them too?"

Also: "If we choose two paths: Devil and Demon, how do we distinguish between the two?"
Part of Divine Disciples success was the stark difference in the two paths.

Scrabbler
09-17-2014, 11:40 AM
I'll just quickly summarize some old concepts for Acolyte of the Skin, which involved some devs who have probably been reassigned by now. Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).
You gain evil-outsider traits like DR, energy resistance, protection from evil magic, vulnerability to holy magic.
Character features which require Good alignment stop working for you. (That primarily means Divine Grace saving throws)
You get a grab-bag of SLAs, including fire damage, poison damage, hypnotize / dominate, chain CC (like single-target Web).
You have defensive clickies that give strong protection, but only for 30-60 seconds out of every 200-400.
You can summon an Evil Outsider as a pet. It is controllable like Pale Master skeleton, and has a column of the tree devoted to improving this pet. Unlike Pale Master, you gain several pet choices as you progress through the cores and can summon which one is best for the current situation.
Choices like Dretch, Succubus, Flesh Render, Tharaak Dog, etc. Often the best choice is the one that is immune to the major energy damage in this dungeon.
Your pet's aura gives you a buff according to the type of pet. For example, succubus probably gives Charisma and Enchantment DC, while others have energy resist, energy spellpower, and necro DC.

Knowing that Acolyte of the Skin will deactivate Paladin saving throws, I recommend that AOTS tier 5 grant a strong bonus to saving throws. (Keep in mind that Sorc18/Pal2 saving throws will be nerfed in the update after this one)

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:44 AM
Thanks Scrabbler!


Question: "Do we have add non lawful alignment limitation for this tree?"

That would void Paladin splashes which should be terribly rare role playing wise.

Scrabbler
09-17-2014, 11:45 AM
Also: An acolyte of the skin summons the essence of a fiend and wears it like a second skin.
This approach seems to avoid destroying our teen rating as the ritual summon an essence and not a being.
Plenty of existing DDO characters summon Fiends when they feel like it. Interestingly, most of the choices for Summon Monster are Evil, with some Neutral and only 1 Good.


Also: Special: Must have made peaceful contact with a summoned evil outsider.
This also indicates a more peaceful approach to the theme, avoiding some DM's adult rating handling of the subject matter.
Erm, "peaceful contact" is often a euphemism for behavior that'd get you NC-17 at American cinemas.


Question: "Do we have add non lawful alignment limitation for this tree?"
That would void Paladin splashes which should be terribly rare role playing wise.
I'd prefer to interfere with Paladin splashes in a different way, by stating that taking certain AOTS enhancements (maybe not the generic stuff in t1) will deactivate features which require a Good alignment, like Divine Grace and Smite Evil.

That is similar in effect as requiring non-Good alignment to take those AOTS enhancements, except that the player doesn't need to have chosen non-Good back at character creation, or have avoided Paladin levels at all. It's just more forgiving for a system where class and alignment respec aren't free. That's fairly important when the tree is being added to a game where characters already exist.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:47 AM
Well, maybe we can just kind of overlook the finer details....

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:56 AM
I'll just quickly summarize some old concepts for Acolyte of the Skin, which involved some devs who have probably been reassigned by now.

I appreciate this very much.


Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick).

Sounds easy enough. Something for the graphics experts.


You gain evil-outsider traits like DR, energy resistance, protection from evil magic, vulnerability to holy magic.

We do need to keep a watch on Barbarian DR developments as this would impact other DR greatly.
Barbarians are hoping for a great increase.


Character features which require Good alignment stop working for you. (That primarily means Divine Grace saving throws)

Might be tricky, is there anything other than Paladins that comes under this category.
I could see non lawful alignment as monk and pally are pretty strong anyway.


You get a grab-bag of SLAs, including fire damage, poison damage, hypnotize / dominate, chain CC (like single-target Web).

Hey, SLAs are my cup of tea!
Woot!


You have defensive clickies that give strong protection, but only for 30-60 seconds out of every 200-400.

Ok.


You can summon an Evil Outsider as a pet. It is controllable like Pale Master skeleton, and has a column of the tree devoted to improving this pet. Unlike Pale Master, you gain several pet choices as you progress through the cores and can summon which one is best for the current situation.

More companion coding (not good as companion coding unless a reused existing version is very time consuming).


Choices like Dretch, Succubus, Flesh Render, Tharaak Dog, etc. Often the best choice is the one that is immune to the major energy damage in this dungeon.

Ok


Your pet's aura gives you a buff according to the type of pet. For example, succubus probably gives Charisma and Enchantment DC, while others have energy resist, energy spellpower, and necro DC.

Hmm...that companion coding might be a reason why we have not seen this surface quicker.
Is the companion essential?

Realize there is a TON I have to guess at, but with Arty and Druid needing companion coding I am hesitant about this.
It sounds good, but what if the companion constantly dies in EE?


Knowing that Acolyte of the Skin will deactivate Paladin saving throws, I recommend that AOTS tier 5 grant a strong bonus to saving throws. (Keep in mind that Sorc18/Pal2 saving throws will be nerfed in the update after this one)

Ok, will consider.

THANKS!

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:59 AM
That is similar in effect as requiring non-Good alignment to take those AOTS enhancements, except that the player doesn't need to have chosen non-Good back at character creation, or have avoided Paladin levels at all. It's just more forgiving for a system where class and alignment respec aren't free. That's fairly important when the tree is being added to a game where characters already exist.

I understand.

Scrabbler
09-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Realize there is a TON I have to guess at, but with Arty and Druid needing companion coding I am hesitant about this.
What do you mean? The more classes there are needing improved companion programming, the less effort it costs each of them.



It sounds good, but what if the companion constantly dies in EE?
That is indeed a major obstacle. Of course Artificer, Druid, and Pale Master features already depend on that question, so it's something that needs work regardless of AOTS. For AOTS to use an important pet is kinda based on if PM pets are working decently to start with.


On a related topic, PM pets have an advantage in that they get healed by splash from the PM player healing himself. An AOTS pet wouldn't have that, so I'd suggest one or two of the AOTS enhancements give the pet a pretty rapid regeneration, and let the player press a button to heal it a few hundred points for a spellpoint cost. (The pet should have very high healing amp too)

Seikojin
09-17-2014, 12:47 PM
I want to start out broad and not narrow things down too fast.

1) What do you most want to see added to Sorcerers?

2) Do you feel the name Acoylyte of the Skin will break the game's teen rating and hence needs renaming?

3) Is there any particular theme you want pursued?

4) Ideas in general are very welcome.


Thank you, very much for your help.
I cannot do this on my own.

1. I think Sorcs need one or two directions with a final tree. Either more raw SP tapping (spellfire, maybe a spellfire iconic), or a golem pet (Acolyte), similar to Wiz necro.
2. No, I think it is fine. It is very thematic and suiting for what it could be. See below.
3. I really think it could be a defensive tree. More sla's tied to buffs.
4. I am thinking barkskin/hardening/or false life sla, then stoneskin, then a globe of some sort as slas. Also summon a golem pet that can be upgraded to a slow marut. Very similar to wizard with necromancy, but conjuration focused. If the first tier sla is construct hardening, the sorc should get cores that turn them more into a construct.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 12:49 PM
What do you mean? The more classes there are needing improved companion programming, the less effort it costs each of them.

Companion artificial intelligence is highly time consuming, and it cannot be passed around using companions that are very different from each other. There is more than that involved including trees and other things.

A wolf would think much different than say a devil.

This is a highly complex issue that I do not fully understand.
I do know it is a problem.



That is indeed a major obstacle. Of course Artificer, Druid, and Pale Master features already depend on that question, so it's something that needs work regardless of AOTS. For AOTS to use an important pet is kinda based on if PM pets are working decently to start with.


On a related topic, PM pets have an advantage in that they get healed by splash from the PM player healing himself. An AOTS pet wouldn't have that, so I'd suggest one or two of the AOTS enhancements give the pet a pretty rapid regeneration, and let the player press a button to heal it a few hundred points for a spellpoint cost. (The pet should have very high healing amp too)

Yes, the question arises quickly do we want to commit part of the tree for a companion which might kill the possibility of a Dev using some spare time to create a new Sorcerer tree?

Especially if no one will use the companion in the end, because it dies too much.

Not trying to rain on people's parade, but I am seeing quickly why this tree project might have been back burnered for years...

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 12:54 PM
1. I think Sorcs need one or two directions with a final tree. Either more raw SP tapping (spellfire, maybe a spellfire iconic), or a golem pet (Acolyte), similar to Wiz necro.

Thanks for the replies.



2. No, I think it is fine. It is very thematic and suiting for what it could be. See below.

Good to know.


3. I really think it could be a defensive tree. More sla's tied to buffs.

Considering Sorcerers die a lot and love SLA, I can see that being a good thing.


4. I am thinking barkskin/hardening/or false life sla, then stoneskin, then a globe of some sort as slas.

Those sound great.


Also summon a golem pet that can be upgraded to a slow marut. Very similar to wizard with necromancy, but conjuration focused. If the first tier sla is construct hardening, the sorc should get cores that turn them more into a construct.

Could we consider maybe a few new summons added to the summon monster list instead of a true companion?
That might be an easier selling point?
Or perhaps a summon buff but only for evil outsider summons?
We could do that I think much easier?

Lonnbeimnech
09-17-2014, 01:03 PM
Well, druid in D&D get to chose their aminal companion from a long list of different animals, that improve as the druid gains levels.

But in ddo we get a wolf.

For the same reason the acolyte of the skin companion should be simplified to one thing, probably an imp (just a renamed mephit).

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 02:25 PM
Extremely rough tree up for round one, I tried to gather up whatever seemed available.
I also went the safe route on a few things, but that can change.

Feel free to tear it apart and consider it a starting point, but no where near the finish line...

THANK EVERYONE, FEEDBACK IS VERY APPRECIATED.
I CANNOT DO THIS WITHOUT YOU!

LuKaSu
09-17-2014, 02:48 PM
Sample rough possible Acolyte of the Skin round 1

Tier Two

Hyponotism Spell Like Ability: Spell Like Ability: Hypnotism (Activation Cost: 1 SP. Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirement.



Dominate Person Spell Like Ability: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Person (Activation Cost: 30/20/10 SP. Cooldown: 18/15/12 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirement.

Tier Five

Dominate Monster Spell Like Ability: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 30/20/10 SP. Cooldown: 18/15/12 seconds)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 Requirement: Dominate Person.


Okay, now, there's no reason to play a enchantment archmage.




Tier Three

Outsider Defenses III: Spell Like Ability: Displacement (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Outsider Defenses II


And no reason to play an illusion Archmage



Tier Four

Outsider Defenses IV: Spell Like Ability: Stoneskin (Activation Cost: 6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Outsider Defenses III


And no reason to play an Abjuration Archmage.

So, it's like you're giving all the benefits (with no hard choices) of all the archmages other than the evocation one, all in one sorcerer tree. It makes this one sorc tree better than all of the possible archmage trees, at levels below they get them. At least with AM, you have to choose either the enchantments, or the displacement, or the stoneskin, instead of getting it all.

With this setup, I could be throwing around fully-meta'd Stoneskin and Dominate Person at level 4.

I would say, if you are set on throwing these SLAs into the mix, I would at least put them as cores, above the level where you could cast them naturally. Maybe since you are trying to have two different paths, maybe the enchantment ones could go along with one path, and the defensive ones could go along the other path?

Maybe the enchantment ones could go on Core 3, 12, and 18 (enchantment AM doesn't even get hold monster until Core 18, so it wouldn't seem right to put dominate at a lower level than that)

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 06:58 PM
Oh I agree its very unbalanced right now.
Very.
And thank you for saying so, I appreciate it.

I am just gathering up stuff and throwing it in there.
Placement into cores would be better, but do we honestly want Dominate Monster as star ability of this tree.
Players tend to hate to be charmers for the most part.


With some thought on the matter of companions ~ the best approach that I can see for this would be ~
Indestructable Imp that looks like a store pet companion that shoots scorching ray at foes every X seconds or the like similar to
the Favored Souls archon ability that grants some buffs on the side.


This tree needs a lot of work to have a snowballs chance in hell of happening, no wonder it never took of the ground so far....

Thanks for the honesty, I think if we forget about what we want, and realize what we need, we can do this....

LuKaSu
09-17-2014, 07:37 PM
Oh I agree its very unbalanced right now.
Very.
And thank you for saying so, I appreciate it.

I am just gathering up stuff and throwing it in there.
Placement into cores would be better, but do we honestly want Dominate Monster as star ability of this tree.
Players tend to hate to be charmers for the most part.

Charmer builds, for me, are like ranger builds and pure rogue builds. I WANT to want to play them, but whenever I build one, they just don't live up to my expectations. I know that it is possible to build good ones (of all three types), but I keep coming back to my melee divines

With some thought on the matter of companions ~ the best approach that I can see for this would be ~
Indestructable Imp that looks like a store pet companion that shoots scorching ray at foes every X seconds or the like similar to
the Favored Souls archon ability that grants some buffs on the side.

This tree needs a lot of work to have a snowballs chance in hell of happening, no wonder it never took of the ground so far....

Thanks for the honesty, I think if we forget about what we want, and realize what we need, we can do this....

Sorry, I'm not trying to just throw water of your ideas. You and several of us together have brought the proposed Favored Soul Tree (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448054-Third-Favored-Soul-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project?goto=newpost) to a pretty good point, and it's a whole lot different than the first mock-up. So, it's still well within the realms of possibility that you'll get this one whipped into shape as well.

DrWily
09-17-2014, 09:47 PM
Sorry, I'm not trying to just throw water of your ideas. You and several of us together have brought the proposed Favored Soul Tree (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448054-Third-Favored-Soul-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project?goto=newpost) to a pretty good point, and it's a whole lot different than the first mock-up. So, it's still well within the realms of possibility that you'll get this one whipped into shape as well.

On it.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 11:55 PM
I think your thought about the cores is important.

How about we swap the Devil ~ Demon path from the cores to the tier 1 thru 5, and move the power stuff to the cores.
That gives more latitude and a bit less effort.

Second, I think if we start thinking outside of the box that would help.

Third, what do Devils and Demon inspire in our minds the most?

Hmmm...


And don't worry about raining upon my parade I need all the honest advice I can get here, after all this is probably the bottom of the bucket, lol... the passed over by the Devs...

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 12:01 AM
Devil Traits

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm


Devil

Devils are fiends from lawful evil-aligned planes.

Many devils are surrounded by a fear aura, which they use to break up powerful groups and defeat opponents piecemeal. Devils with spell-like abilities use their illusion abilities to delude and confuse foes as much as possible. A favorite trick is to create illusory reinforcements; enemies can never be entirely sure if a threat is only a figment or real summoned devils joining the fray.

Devil Traits

Most devils possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
•Immunity to fire and poison.
•Resistance to acid 10 and cold 10.
•See in Darkness (Su): Some devils can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even that created by a deeper darkness spell.
•Summon (Sp): Some devils share the ability to summon others of their kind (the success chance and type of devils summoned are noted in each monster description).
•Telepathy.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 12:02 AM
Demon Traits

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm


Demon

Demons are a race of creatures native to chaotic evil-aligned planes. They are ferocity personified and will attack any creature just for the sheer fun of it—even other demons.

Demon Traits

Most demons possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
•Immunity to electricity and poison.
•Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10.
•Summon (Sp): Many demons share the ability to summon others of their kind (the success chance and type of demon summoned are noted in each monster description). Demons are often reluctant to use this power until in obvious peril or extreme circumstances.
•Telepathy.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 12:21 AM
Elemental Forms

At levels 13 and 17 a druid may use their 'Wild Shape' feat to change into an elemental.
You are considered an elemental.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep, paralysis and stun, and 100% bonus to fortification.
Elemental forms keep their equipped weapons after the transformation.
You must prepare your elemental form spells as normal and do not receive additional spell preparation slots for them.


We might can copy some of this for "poison immunity and the like.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 12:35 AM
Devils and Demons should get this:

You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep

Aura of Fear

Summon Imp/whatever

Deception or Fierce fighter

Telepathy



Devils should get this:

Major fire absorption
Minor acid and cold absorption
More likely to use illusions, exceptions apply
Possible True Seeing or Spot bonus

Demons should get this:

Major Electrical absorption
Minor acid, cold, and fire absorption
More likely to use brute force, exceptions apply

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 02:27 AM
Round 2 is up.

Changes ~ plenty....

Studying it out, I found a strong relationship with the Angel of Vengeance tree which makes sense as angel, devils, and demons share qualities but not alignments and ideals. So you will see a tendency for some profane version of the AoV tree, with divergences such as some of the new Beacon of Hope tree qualities.


The most powerful SLAs were moved to Capstone, Core 18.
Namely Dominate Monster and Globe of Invulnerablity.
These are zero sp cost to encourage their use.

Others were eliminated, and less powerful ones typically seen when fighting devils were brought in namely:
Poison, Contagion, Blindness, and Curse.

Fear was brought into tier five as Fear is very typical of PnP versions of these type of outsiders.

Most of these spell don't see very common usage.

There is a very powerful tier 5 summons buff, but the rest of it went into an Imp version of the AoV archon.


Cheers, this was fun, and it is sort of taking shape now....

Wizza
09-18-2014, 05:34 AM
I made a suggestion thread when EK was not yet announced. HERE (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/420079-Acolyte-of-the-Skin-a-suggestion-and-a-thread-to-discuss).

Re-reading it now, it kinda needs some adjustments but whatever, just throwing it out.

Skavenaps
09-18-2014, 06:22 AM
I dont know if that post is for the sake of do a PrE, but for me, an import part of a PrE is the flavor. if you are going to do a Devil and Demon Pre, please, get the things right.

Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non lawful alignment.

Do you realize that Devils are LAWFUL? How is supposed that you take the powers of a Devil and don't let you become lawful?

Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_baatezusubtype&alpha=

Baatezu, the kind of more common devil, is inmune to fire and posion. So its tematic that they increase others vulnerability to fire and posion.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_tanarrisubtype&alpha=

Tanar'ri are Immunity to electricity and poison.So the same, vulnerability to electricity and poison.

Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Imps are Devils and Quasits is the demon equivalent.

Core 6
Aura of Menace: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

is not aura of menace a typical Angel power?

Core 18
Defense of the Pit Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 0 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)


It should be an aura of flames (Devil) or electricity (Demon) that protects from that element (as the Dragon ED).

Holybird
09-18-2014, 08:06 AM
Ok normally I like your ideas Silver, but this time

1) You step at Barbs feet. 25Dr/Good? Makes my barb feel so poor.
2) Core 18. 0sp cost Globe of Invulnerability? With 10 secs cool-down? That makes you permanently immune against all lvl 4 and under spells. Could add 1 sp cost so it would seem at least not so OP?
3) Overall like the idea of tree. But too powerful atm. With some changes I could actually roll a sorc some day :D

With all respect Holybird.


P.S Ye really hit the jackpot with Gatekeeeper, do the same with this :D

mezzorco
09-18-2014, 08:20 AM
The tree shouldn't require a non-lawful alignment. If fact, demons are chaotic evil creatures, while devils are lawful evil.
Devils never lie and youcan always trust their words (do you remember the devil in nwn2?).
I would replace alignment restriction with any lawful for devil path and any chaotic for demon path. Or simply discard it, like pale master, kensei and assassin.

Also, the tree shouldn't grant you an imp if you chose the demon path, because imps are lawful evil creatures.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 09:48 AM
I made a suggestion thread when EK was not yet announced. HERE (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/420079-Acolyte-of-the-Skin-a-suggestion-and-a-thread-to-discuss).

Re-reading it now, it kinda needs some adjustments but whatever, just throwing it out.

Post #3 now reads:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/420079-Acolyte-of-the-Skin-a-suggestion-and-a-thread-to-discuss

Wow, an entire thread on this subject, definitely worth reading.
THANK YOU!



The tree shouldn't require a non-lawful alignment. If fact, demons are chaotic evil creatures, while devils are lawful evil.
Devils never lie and youcan always trust their words (do you remember the devil in nwn2?).
I would replace alignment restriction with any lawful for devil path and any chaotic for demon path. Or simply discard it, like pale master, kensei and assassin.

Also, the tree shouldn't grant you an imp if you chose the demon path, because imps are lawful evil creatures.

Opsay, as you and others mentioned, lol, opsay, we will change thus.

Guess I need to goggle what is the Imp version in demon form?

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 09:56 AM
Ok normally I like your ideas Silver, but this time

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE FEEDBACK, YOU ARE IMPORTANT!


1) You step at Barbs feet. 25Dr/Good? Makes my barb feel so poor.

My Barbarian Project suggested changing Barbarian DR / -- to something like
"Barbarian DR = (Barbarian Level * 0.X) + (Epic Level * 2)"

So, yes atm this is uber compared to Barbarian.
I hope to make this similar to the hopefully new and improved Barbarian.
Sev has publically stated that he hopes but does not promise to improve Barbarians in update 24.
And that is as good as you will ever get from a Dev till you see it hit Lamania.
They shy away from promises.
So let us consider this Fuzzy Math atm.

By the way, it was the player's huge response helping me with the Barbarian project which might have pushed that cart along its way.
Thank you all!


2) Core 18. 0sp cost Globe of Invulnerability? With 10 secs cool-down? That makes you permanently immune against all lvl 4 and under spells. Could add 1 sp cost so it would seem at least not so OP?

No body uses that spells, no body, and its a great spell.
But sure I could tack on 10% of its true sp cost.
Easy to do.


3) Overall like the idea of tree. But too powerful atm. With some changes I could actually roll a sorc some day :D

Well, I am happy to hear that.


With all respect Holybird.


P.S Ye really hit the jackpot with Gatekeeeper, do the same with this :D

Woot! :) :) :) With players like you guy around helping, we can do this.

LuKaSu
09-18-2014, 09:58 AM
Acolyte of the Skin round 2

Tier Two

Outsider Defenses II: You gain DR/Good 7

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Outsider Defenses I


Tier Three

Outsider Defenses III: You gain DR/Good 12
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Outsider Defenses II


Tier Four

Outsider Defenses IV: You gain DR/Good 18
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Outsider Defenses III


Tier Five

Outsider Defenses V: You gain DR/Good 25

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Outsider Defenses IV



Keep in mind that back in the day, getting your WF Favored soul to have a 17 DR made you feel almost invulnerable. Obviously, the numbers won't work with epics, but these DRs still would be plenty super-powerful in heroics. You can have enough APs at level 3 to take Tier 3 enhancements. So imagine running around Korthos and the Harbor with a DR of 12. You'd be unstoppable.

Tier 4, you could get by, say level 5, so imagine running around the marketplace and Three Barrel Island with a DR of 18. Completely too much. And there's not a whole lot of creatures that would break DR/Good by that level anyway, so it's basically like having DR of 18/-.

Or imagine a 4 Sorc / x Fighter build. 18 DR for a 4 Sorc / 1 Fighter. Even if he never casts a spell, those four Sorc levels would make him more un-killable than all other fighters nearby.

Maybe a low core (3) could give you 5/Good, then a higher level core (12?) could raise the number to be equal to 5 + half your sorcerer levels or something, then your core 20 cap could bring it up to 20/Good. Even at the level 12, getting 5+6 DR would be very powerful. I know that the goal is to have an increasing amount of power as you go up the tree, but trees also have to be relatively balanced for low levels.

On a positive note, a 16 Barbarian / 4 Sorc would finally get the DR that he should have! So, that's a win (but a 7 Barb / 5 Sorc could have 25 DR at level 12. Wow!)

My general advice: if anything would make a low-level character or low-level splash crazy powerful, put it in the cores.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 10:09 AM
Aye, a nice long post, THANK YOU!
Will read and respond.


I dont know if that post is for the sake of do a PrE, but for me, an import part of a PrE is the flavor. if you are going to do a Devil and Demon Pre, please, get the things right.

Need all the roleplaying help I can get.
I will confess there were some places like:
"Who likes to poison more, Devils or Demons?"





Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non lawful alignment.

Do you realize that Devils are LAWFUL? How is supposed that you take the powers of a Devil and don't let you become lawful?



Lol, and after carefully planning out a final build with chaos hammer included for those moments when devils arrive, and Order's Wrath for those moments when Demons arrive, all that planning, and I forget this detail.

Many eyes on the tree is the way to go.
Thank you!



Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_baatezusubtype&alpha=

Baatezu, the kind of more common devil, is inmune to fire and posion. So its tematic that they increase others vulnerability to fire and posion.

I think we could slip that in.



Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_tanarrisubtype&alpha=

Tanar'ri are Immunity to electricity and poison.So the same, vulnerability to electricity and poison.

Sure, we could add poison to that list.

Powerwise, force, light, and sonic are a step above acid, cold, electric and fire.
The former are less likely to be blocked by resistances and immunity than the latter.
Since this is a copy of the AoV tree (I found angel, devils, and demons to share certain traits) we could definitely justify this addition.



Core 12
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level fire damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Fire Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its fire beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 + caster level electric damage every 2 seconds, and uses half of your electric Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its electric beam attacks. The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.[/b]

Imps are Devils and Quasits is the demon equivalent.


Thank you, you have saved me 30 minutes of searching.
In return, I will spend those 30 minutes adding these great suggestions to the tree.



Core 6
Aura of Menace: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second[/b]

is not aura of menace a typical Angel power?


Yes, it is.
I did notice that many devils and demons sported some sort of fear auras themselves.
So, a rename is in order, and perhaps a minor rewriting?
But the fear aura theme seems appropriate unless players think otherwise.



Core 18
Defense of the Pit Spell Like Ability: Globe of Invulnerability (Activation Cost: 0 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)[/b]


It should be an aura of flames (Devil) or electricity (Demon) that protects from that element (as the Dragon ED).

Ah, hmm..., yes I put 10% +10% = 20% inside the tier trees for their respective energies.
But you do have a point.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 10:13 AM
Keep in mind that back in the day, getting your WF Favored soul to have a 17 DR made you feel almost invulnerable. Obviously, the numbers won't work with epics, but these DRs still would be plenty super-powerful in heroics. You can have enough APs at level 3 to take Tier 3 enhancements. So imagine running around Korthos and the Harbor with a DR of 12. You'd be unstoppable.

Tier 4, you could get by, say level 5, so imagine running around the marketplace and Three Barrel Island with a DR of 18. Completely too much. And there's not a whole lot of creatures that would break DR/Good by that level anyway, so it's basically like having DR of 18/-.

Or imagine a 4 Sorc / x Fighter build. 18 DR for a 4 Sorc / 1 Fighter. Even if he never casts a spell, those four Sorc levels would make him more un-killable than all other fighters nearby.

Maybe a low core (3) could give you 5/Good, then a higher level core (12?) could raise the number to be equal to 5 + half your sorcerer levels or something, then your core 20 cap could bring it up to 20/Good. Even at the level 12, getting 5+6 DR would be very powerful. I know that the goal is to have an increasing amount of power as you go up the tree, but trees also have to be relatively balanced for low levels.

On a positive note, a 16 Barbarian / 4 Sorc would finally get the DR that he should have! So, that's a win (but a 7 Barb / 5 Sorc could have 25 DR at level 12. Wow!)

My general advice: if anything would make a low-level character or low-level splash crazy powerful, put it in the cores.

Thanks very much, will put these things into the next round, and I think I have enough great feedback to make round 3.

mezzorco
09-18-2014, 10:30 AM
Guess I need to goggle what is the Imp version in demon form?

Quasit. It's almost identical to imp ;)

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 10:32 AM
Quasit. It's almost identical to imp ;)

Cool THANK YOU!

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 12:06 PM
Round 3 is now up.

Changes ~ well a lot of the suggestions made were taken.


Core 1 Non lawful was changed to non good.
Sorry Paladin splash fans, I don't want to risk a lot of bugs by disabling good alignment features.
If you take this tree the good aligned gods ought to disown you anyway...lol...

Core 3 Alignment based is changed to poison based. Added Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good

Core 6 Renamed to Aura of Fiendish Fear {which means it no longer would stack with the Exalted Angel's Angelic presence.

Core 12 Demons get their own Quasit instead of being insulted by an Imp.
Added Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.


Core 18 Globe SLA was removed and replaced with:
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +33% stacking fire absorption

Demon: You gain +33% stacking electric absorption

{Which totals at +45% for the whole tree.}


Capstone Dominate Monster SLA now cost 2 sp instead of being free.
Add: Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.

{Also added recommendation for AoV capstone to increase from 10 to 20 appropriately in the that project's notes.}



Tiers 1 thru 5

DR is moved away from the tiers and into cores as was suggested.


A bluff skill + 25 sp

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


along with a variation of Aggravate made it into tier 1 and 2 where the old DR enhancements were.

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking DR [2/4/6] / Good for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I

Considering bluff lasts for 4 seconds with a 15 second cooldown, I think its ok to add.
{Unless Half Elf would break it, hmm....I think the additional use is high cooldown too.
It would be nice to see Sorcerer bluffing a bit.}
It does grant an interesting variation of skill bonus and fiends seem to love to use bluff so its thematic.


A variation of Arcane Barrier made it into tier 4 and 5 where the old DR enhancements sat.

Outsider Defenses I: Passive: When your HP drops below 50% of maximum, you are immediately protected by an Profane Barrier that reduces all incoming damage by 10% for the next 20/40/60 seconds. This effect may only trigger once every 180/150/120 seconds.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

Tier Five

Outsider Defenses II: Your profane barrier now reduces 20% of incoming damage.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 Requirement: Outsider Defenses I



Power of the Pit +1 universal spell now appears in Tiers 1 thru 4; however the two Path of Heresy spell crits have been reduced downward to Devil: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance Demon: You gain +1% electric spell critical chance

{This was done with the theory that Acolyte of the Skin should serve as a universal tree in contrast to the Savant's heavy evocation specialization, but leaving the thematic devil/demon flair.}


One of the Energy Absorptions was moved to core 18, leaving room for a bit more thematic flair (taking a page out of Beacon):

Inherit Spell Knowledge: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Order's Wrath as a level 4 spell.

Demon: Add to the list of Sorcerer spells that you can choose from to learn: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


THANKS VERY MUCH!
YOU FOLKS ARE GREAT!

HatsuharuZ
09-18-2014, 12:47 PM
This tree needs a mult-enhancement selector for +DCs. Call it... Fiendish Magic: Pick from +1 to Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy or Enchantment spells.

Scrabbler
09-18-2014, 12:55 PM
It would be nice if in addition to Devil vs Demon choices, there was a 3rd option that was more funky-weird, aligned with Eberron strangeness instead of classic D&D. Something from Xoriat, Kyrthi, or Dal Quor.

Holybird
09-18-2014, 01:07 PM
Ok Round 3 seems rather good. Flavor is good and tree itself seems pretty nice. Only one question: How will the Barrier of this tree stack with Eldritch Knight barrier, as they seem to work very similarly? And do they stack with that one spell?(Forgot its name:D)


Edit:NVM the spell just realized it is Arti only spell. But maybe someone scrolls it, hmmmm.........

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 02:05 PM
This tree needs a mult-enhancement selector for +DCs. Call it... Fiendish Magic: Pick from +1 to Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy or Enchantment spells.

Aye, I have spell pen covered the Fiendish Fear aura, but absolutely zero DC bonuses, will look and see. We already have a completely full tree, but maybe I can find room. Its a good request.


It would be nice if in addition to Devil vs Demon choices, there was a 3rd option that was more funky-weird, aligned with Eberron strangeness instead of classic D&D. Something from Xoriat, Kyrthi, or Dal Quor.

Agree, maybe not a third multi-select, but we can at least insert a tribute feature.
Seems like I need another space.


Ok Round 3 seems rather good. Flavor is good and tree itself seems pretty nice. Only one question: How will the Barrier of this tree stack with Eldritch Knight barrier, as they seem to work very similarly? And do they stack with that one spell?(Forgot its name:D)


Edit:NVM the spell just realized it is Arti only spell. But maybe someone scrolls it, hmmmm.........

Labelled profane, but it would reduce the flavor and power of EK copying it like that,
and it seems I need a tier 4 and 5 slot. So let us just remove it.

Round 4 coming up with that change.

Scrabbler
09-18-2014, 02:34 PM
The version of AOTS at the top of this page seems too much like a "Fire or Lightning" tree, meaning it's practically an extension of the Fire Savant / Air Savant that Sorcerer already has.

Think for a minute about what that means for builds... would you ever make an Air Savant without quite a few AOTS points for better crit and a shoulder cannon? Would you ever make AOTS without heavy points in Air or Fire Savant? I wouldn't want AOTS to have a strong build linkage to any elemental damage type... keep it generic.

(Also, when was the last time you ever fought a DDO Devil and got blasted with fire? That's rare, but are there any DDO Demons who shoot you with Lightning? I can think of one named guy...)

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 02:43 PM
Round 4 and 5 are up:


Changes:

Removed tier 4 and 5 Outsider Defense I and II.


Replaced with :

Tier 5

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.


Round 4 introduces:

Tier Four

Planar Madness: Your spells have a 2% chance of triggering the Vortex of Madness which can trigger only once every 60/45/30 seconds. Vortex of Madness adds a random effect to your spells. {I'll let Varg and Sev figured out the random effect charts, or they can plug into Colors of the Queen instead.}


Round 5 changes Planar Madness to:

Planar Madness: Your spells have a 2%/4%/6% chance of triggering the Vortex of Madness which can trigger only once every 60/45/30 seconds. Vortex of Madness is the equivalent of drinking a potion of wonder (without actually having to drink a potion).
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 02:46 PM
The version of AOTS at the top of this page seems too much like a "Fire or Lightning" tree, meaning it's practically an extension of the Fire Savant / Air Savant that Sorcerer already has.

Think for a minute about what that means for builds... would you ever make an Air Savant without quite a few AOTS points for better crit and a shoulder cannon? Would you ever make AOTS without heavy points in Air or Fire Savant? I wouldn't want AOTS to have a strong build linkage to any elemental damage type... keep it generic.

(Also, when was the last time you ever fought a DDO Devil and got blasted with fire? That's rare, but are there any DDO Demons who shoot you with Lightning? I can think of one named guy...)
An excellent point and one that eventually I ran into with the Warmage project, I am not sure that any Sorcerer tree except maybe a Eldritch Knight type would be able to avoid the impact of the Savants.


I could try to add a cold multi-select option, are there evil outsiders who are immune to cold?


If we are trying to reduce the situation, it currently stands at:

+1% spell crit fire or electric at tier one and three

along with the archon with although it does do damage, it is not overwhelmingly strong

I could further reduce the spell crits, but I did want to encourage Savants to dip into the tree.

Scrabbler
09-18-2014, 02:50 PM
[I]Planar Madness: Your spells have a 2%/4%/6% chance of triggering the Vortex of Madness which can trigger only once every 60/45/30 seconds. Vortex of Madness is the equivalent of drinking a potion of wonder (without actually having to drink a potion).
That's sorta a fun idea... but here's an alternative way to do it:

Planar Madness is an active icon which costs some spellpoints and pulls you through a portal for a brief meeting with an Archfiend. You roll the better of Bluff, Intim, or Dip (not exactly the same DC for each) and receive a few minutes buff (or debuff) according to the result. (The buff is exclusive with Queen Tea)

It's fun to give players an ability with a random weird result, and actually more fun to give it a small chance of being bad for you. But it's important to at least let the player decide when to subject himself to the randomness; so he can avoid it during especially critical moments. So it shouldn't be attached to every spell you cast.

Note that a nice way to do "Bad For You" results is to lower your DPS, but greatly raise your survivability. So the player can have a laugh at being turned into a melee-only Dretch for 40 seconds, but when that form expires (or runs out of hp) he's back as a healed-up Sorcerer.

Holybird
09-18-2014, 02:51 PM
Round 4 and 5 are up:


Changes:

Removed tier 4 and 5 Outsider Defense I and II.


Replaced with :

Tier 5

Planar Edge: Multi-select: Choose one school from all the spell schools, you gain +1 DCs for that spell school.


Round 4 introduces:

Tier Four

Planar Madness: Your spells have a 2% chance of triggering the Vortex of Madness which can trigger only once every 60/45/30 seconds. Vortex of Madness adds a random effect to your spells. {I'll let Varg and Sev figured out the random effect charts, or they can plug into Colors of the Queen instead.}


Round 5 changes Planar Madness to:

Planar Madness: Your spells have a 2%/4%/6% chance of triggering the Vortex of Madness which can trigger only once every 60/45/30 seconds. Vortex of Madness is the equivalent of drinking a potion of wonder (without actually having to drink a potion).
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

Make sure that it doesn't blow things up? And I mean literally. It wouldn't be very nice to fear every time it goes on that ye may explode. It would look funny tho:D

P.S Now the tree seems to be pretty good. Dunno how many times I have already said this, but keep on this good work:D

Holybird
09-18-2014, 02:55 PM
An excellent point and one that eventually I ran into with the Warmage project, I am not sure that any Sorcerer tree except maybe a Eldritch Knight type would be able to avoid the impact of the Savants.


I could try to add a cold multi-select option, are there evil outsiders who are immune to cold?

White Abishai maybe?

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 02:59 PM
White Abishai maybe?

I don't suppose they have some cute version of Imps?

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 03:00 PM
Make sure that it doesn't blow things up? And I mean literally. It wouldn't be very nice to fear every time it goes on that ye may explode. It would look funny tho:D

That would be something, lol, here comes one of the AotS!
Everyone Run I hear a hissing sound!



P.S Now the tree seems to be pretty good. Dunno how many times I have already said this, but keep on this good work:D

THANKS YOU FOLKS ARE GREATEST, LOVE BRAINSTORMING WITH ALL OF YOU!

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 03:03 PM
White Abishai
Medium Outsider (Baatezu, Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30ft (6 squares), fly 40ft (average)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6
Attack: Tail sting +6 melee (1d6+2 plus 1d6 cold)
Full Attack: Tail sting +6 melee (1d6+2 plus 1d6 cold), 2 claws +4 melee (1d4+1) and bite +4 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Cold, spell-like abilities, summon baatezu
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, DR 5/ good or silver, immunity to fire and poison, regeneration 2, resistance to acid 10 and cold 10, see in darkness, spell resistance 16, telepathy 100ft
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills: Bluff +8, Diplomacy +5, Concentration +9, Escape Artist +9, Hide +9, Intimidate +8, Listen +8, Move Silently +9, Spot +8
Feats: Improved Initiative, Multiattack
Environment: Nine Hells of Baator
Organization: Solitary, pair or wail (3-12 of mixed types)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always lawful evil
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: +6

Darn, fire immunity.

Scrabbler
09-18-2014, 03:03 PM
A gameplay need Sorcerers have is to obtain self-healing, or something similar. Wizards currently have the Pale Master tree to get healing, and if you're a Construct then Sorcerer has lots of healing. But biological Sorcs are far behind in that regard... too far.

Something like that could be a good addition for Acolyte of the Skin. You wouldn't want it to be too good compared to Pale Master (which carries a serious drawback), or even compared to Cleric spells. So probably the cooldown on the healing should be pretty long, or it shouldn't be healing at all (like a much stronger version of the False Life spell, which adds 50-100 temp hp)

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 03:11 PM
A gameplay need Sorcerers have is to obtain self-healing, or something similar. Wizards currently have the Pale Master tree to get healing, and if you're a Construct then Sorcerer has lots of healing. But biological Sorcs are far behind in that regard... too far.

Something like that could be a good addition for Acolyte of the Skin. You wouldn't want it to be too good compared to Pale Master (which carries a serious drawback), or even compared to Cleric spells. So probably the cooldown on the healing should be pretty long, or it shouldn't be healing at all (like a much stronger version of the False Life spell, which adds 50-100 temp hp)

Excellent question, I pause and wonder.

Sev said Barbarian fixes might be in update 24, and what if the suggestion of new potions actually came into being?
Long shot but that might affect Sorcerer, however I will ponder this for a bit.

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 03:19 PM
Acolyte of the Skin round 6 is up.

Changes:




Tier Four

Planar Madness: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Your Imp now does Acid damage instead of Fire.

Demon: Your Quasit now does Cold damage instead of Electric.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements




Now that leaves the ability to utilize all four energies with only a small advantage to fire and electric.

If folks want totally energy neutrality I can remove the two +1 fire/electric spell crit and find something else to replace them with, or just remove one of them and leave tier 3 one in, I think I might do that.

Need a tier 1 flavor,,,,hmm...or a tier 3...

Maybe I'll ponder minor self healing...

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 03:47 PM
Round 7 is up.

Changes:

Removed +1 fire/electric spell crit from Path of Heresy III and replaced with:

Tier Three

Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Flaming Sphere Spell Like Ability: Flaming Sphere (Activation Cost: 2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 2 spell.)

Demon: False Life Spell Like Ability: False Life (Activation Cost: 2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 2 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


I think this is the best I can offer for simple self healing.

The Demon branch gets false life of 2 sp which is not bad, and combined for cure serious potions, and the fiendish DR might be pretty good.

The Devil branch gets a cheap summons practically free to balance out.

Holybird
09-18-2014, 04:12 PM
For self healing to sorcs maybe Imp would work like arti dog with automated repairs enhancement( or whatever it is called). SO it heals you 4d4+1 POSITIVE HEALING ( no toaster love heh) per 6 seconds. Not bad , not overpowered eh?

Silverleafeon
09-18-2014, 07:50 PM
Very nice, when we start talking about self healing and the like, its a good sign others things are looking good.


Ok, into the notes section on the front page:

Want self healing options including one or more of the following, etc:


Better potions to drink


New spell ~ Greater False Life granting 50~100 temp hp.


Option for Imp/Quasit to do healing pulses every X seconds for YdZ positive energy.


Palemaster has self healing, would like to see something for Sorcerer as well.





That will do for starters, will ponder more.

DrWily
09-18-2014, 08:02 PM
How about an upgrade (T5?) to the Imp/Quasit that allows it to heal you by a small amount of damage that it deals with it's attacks.

HatsuharuZ
09-18-2014, 08:21 PM
False Life isn't that great... as you level up, the amount of temp HP it gives makes it a waste of spell points.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 10:45 AM
How about an upgrade (T5?) to the Imp/Quasit that allows it to heal you by a small amount of damage that it deals with it's attacks.

Hmm...I think I could work that in somewhere.

Could it be temp hp?

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 10:46 AM
False Life isn't that great... as you level up, the amount of temp HP it gives makes it a waste of spell points.

That is why I made the SLA only cost 2 sp, or would like it replace with something else.
Should I put the electric / fire +1 crit back?
Or should I make it 1 sp instead of 2?

Scrabbler
09-19-2014, 10:49 AM
Should I put the electric / fire +1 crit back?
If there is crit (or a lot of spellpower) for specific elements, then players will be encouraged to take AOTS for the wrong reasons. They'll treat it as an extension of Air / Fire Savant, and not its own tree. The reasons to take AOTS should be to gain some other kind of features than elemental blasting damage.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 10:53 AM
If there is crit (or a lot of spellpower) for specific elements, then players will be encouraged to take AOTS for the wrong reasons. They'll treat it as an extension of Air / Fire Savant, and not its own tree. The reasons to take AOTS should be to gain some other kind of features than elemental blasting damage.

Yes, and that is a good reason to consider self healing inside the tree.
Will not replace and will consider options.

HatsuharuZ
09-19-2014, 11:20 AM
That is why I made the SLA only cost 2 sp, or would like it replace with something else.
Should I put the electric / fire +1 crit back?
Or should I make it 1 sp instead of 2?

How about this: Make it an 'eternal false life' toggle which automatically casts false life on the user every 30 to 60 seconds or so, at the cost of 2 sp per cast while it is active.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 12:24 PM
How about this: Make it an 'eternal false life' toggle which automatically casts false life on the user every 30 to 60 seconds or so, at the cost of 2 sp per cast while it is active.

Interesting.


I guess I need a few blasphemy ideas, will pull out that electric/fire crit, insert some blasphemy multi-selection, and work on this false life / self sufficiency .... etc...

Scrabbler
09-19-2014, 12:35 PM
AOTS sla idea:

Hell Ray or Hell Glare. You shoot a beam at one enemy that does Sonic, Lightning, Acid, and either Fire or Cold damage (whichever you have more spellpower). This based on the concept of Hellball, but of course is much less total damage. Note that this style of SLA won't favor any particular Savant variety.

LuKaSu
09-19-2014, 04:38 PM
Yes, and that is a good reason to consider self healing inside the tree.
Will not replace and will consider options.

But the whole theme is pretty much diametrically opposed to Positive Spellpower, and you've not an undead Sorcerer.

Maybe, instead of outright healing, the changes to the skin could produce some sort of forcefield that needs to be busted through before you feel the pain.

Maybe something like Ablative Armor that automatically applies every so often, that the amount of protection scales with your sorcerer level or your expenditure of points into the AotS tree. (Again, for balance reasons, making sure that it doesn't god-mode level 3 sorcs, but also makes a measurable difference at high levels.) If it doesn't re-cast too often (not more than once every 2 minutes or so), a self-only version of the ablative armor spell itself would work pretty well.

DrWily
09-19-2014, 07:10 PM
Hmm...I think I could work that in somewhere.

Could it be temp hp?
Possibly. Doing my own take on this (just some slight mods to Round 7) and I can make it give temp hp. To be honest, I don't think every class should be able to self heal, or else everyone would just solo EE


Interesting.


I guess I need a few blasphemy ideas, will pull out that electric/fire crit, insert some blasphemy multi-selection, and work on this false life / self sufficiency .... etc...
I'll try to come up with a couple.

Nightmanis
09-19-2014, 09:07 PM
But the whole theme is pretty much diametrically opposed to Positive Spellpower, and you've not an undead Sorcerer.

Maybe, instead of outright healing, the changes to the skin could produce some sort of forcefield that needs to be busted through before you feel the pain.

Maybe something like Ablative Armor that automatically applies every so often, that the amount of protection scales with your sorcerer level or your expenditure of points into the AotS tree. (Again, for balance reasons, making sure that it doesn't god-mode level 3 sorcs, but also makes a measurable difference at high levels.) If it doesn't re-cast too often (not more than once every 2 minutes or so), a self-only version of the ablative armor spell itself would work pretty well.

Why not do something akin to Palemaster then, but with Hell?

You've made a pact with Khyber, the dragon of hell. He's instilled the greatest power of the fiery pits, allowing you to become a Tiefling, then a Demon, and finally rising to the highest ranking, a Devil General.

Give it some evil attacks, maybe even give the capstone Blade Barrier (a blackened one, of course)

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 11:53 PM
AOTS sla idea:

Hell Ray or Hell Glare. You shoot a beam at one enemy that does Sonic, Lightning, Acid, and either Fire or Cold damage (whichever you have more spellpower). This based on the concept of Hellball, but of course is much less total damage. Note that this style of SLA won't favor any particular Savant variety.

This reminds me to the purchasable:

Past Life: Arcane Prodigy Past Life You recall more about your past life as a sorcerer. Your maximum spell points are increased by 10 at first level, and 5 spell points for each additional level and can produce random elemental damage spells ten times per rest. (Activate this sorcerer ability to blast a target with a ray of combined elements, doing 1d12 damage of a random elemental type plus an additional 1d12 per three caster levels on impact. A successful Reflex save reduce the damage by half.)


But the whole theme is pretty much diametrically opposed to Positive Spellpower, and you've not an undead Sorcerer.

Maybe, instead of outright healing, the changes to the skin could produce some sort of forcefield that needs to be busted through before you feel the pain.

Maybe something like Ablative Armor that automatically applies every so often, that the amount of protection scales with your sorcerer level or your expenditure of points into the AotS tree. (Again, for balance reasons, making sure that it doesn't god-mode level 3 sorcs, but also makes a measurable difference at high levels.) If it doesn't re-cast too often (not more than once every 2 minutes or so), a self-only version of the ablative armor spell itself would work pretty well.

Ablative Armor Artificers level 1
Spell Point Cost: 10sp Duration: 5 Minutes Cooldown: 1 Minute
Description:
Wards an ally against physical damage and force damage. Once this infusion has prevented a total of 5 damage per caster level (max 50) it is discharged.




Possibly. Doing my own take on this (just some slight mods to Round 7) and I can make it give temp hp. To be honest, I don't think every class should be able to self heal, or else everyone would just solo EE


I'll try to come up with a couple.

Thanks I appreciate that.
I might move the tier 5 blasphemies downward to make room for a tier 5 Ablative Armor, then remove the tier 1 and 2 blasphemies, moving upward into tier 3 and 4 cluster.


Why not do something akin to Palemaster then, but with Hell?

You've made a pact with Khyber, the dragon of hell. He's instilled the greatest power of the fiery pits, allowing you to become a Tiefling, then a Demon, and finally rising to the highest ranking, a Devil General.

Give it some evil attacks, maybe even give the capstone Blade Barrier (a blackened one, of course)

Interesting.


THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP, YOU FOLKS ARE GREAT!

Silverleafeon
09-20-2014, 08:01 AM
Round 8 is up.

Rounds 1 thru 7 have moved to underneath the notes in post 4 due to space limitaions.


Changes:

Cores:

Greatly increased Core 18 now granting:

Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +66.6% fire absorption

Demon: You gain +66.6% electric absorption

{This is partly due to removing fire/electric absorption from skin adaptation theme.}


Tier One ~ combined Skin adaptation I and II into I ; created a new Skin adaptation II working toward AotS to be more self sufficient by increasing its defensive roles. Removed Path of Blasphemy I involving Fire/Electric spell crit to encourage this to be a universal tree. Also Toughness now requires Skin adaptation I

Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick). You gain +4 natural armor.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation II: You gain +5 PPR and +5 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I

Moved Skin Adaptations acid and cold downward a tier to tier 2 and 3 respectively.


Tier 2 ~ to further reflect the summon fiend ability created:

Summon Fiend I: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has an additional stacking +50% fortification, +15 PPR, and +15 MMR.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier 3 Changed Path of Heresy I:

Deceptive Life of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 2 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: False Life every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 2 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No Requirements

To be either Devil or Demon and moving towards more self sufficiency.


Tier Four ~ added Shield of Blasphemy to the Planar Madness effect / Moved what is now Path of Heresy III downward a tier from tier 5 to tier 4.

Planar Madness: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Your Imp now does Acid damage instead of Fire. Your Shield of Blasphemy now affects vulnerability to Acid instead of Fire.

Demon: Your Quasit now does Cold damage instead of Electric. Your Shield of Blasphemy now affects vulnerability to Cold instead of Electric.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Poison Spell Like Ability: Poison (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy I


Path of Heresy III: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Blindness Spell Like Ability: Blindness (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Tier Five ~ added PPR and MMR to the final skin adaptation / created new Path of Heresy involving Ablative Armor toggle.

Skin adaptation V: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep. You gain +10 PPR and +10 MMR

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Path of Heresy IV:

Ablative of the Pit Toggle: Cooldown 7 Seconds. Costs 5 Spell Points per minute. Automatically casts Spell Like Ability: Ablative Armor every minute while the toggle is active. (Considered a level 1 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Path of Heresy III



Also ~ reduced sp cost of Fear SLA from 5 sp to 2 sp to help make tier 5 more tempting to take.

Drathsiddh
09-22-2014, 12:28 AM
Very nice, when we start talking about self healing and the like, its a good sign others things are looking good.


Ok, into the notes section on the front page:

Want self healing options including one or more of the following, etc:



Better potions to drink


New spell ~ Greater False Life granting 50~100 temp hp.


Option for Imp/Quasit to do healing pulses every X seconds for YdZ positive energy.


Palemaster has self healing, would like to see something for Sorcerer as well.





That will do for starters, will ponder more.



Okay for starters:



Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.

Core Three (Note: Changed from core twelve)
Devil Path: Summon Imp: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small imp hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This imp is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 fire damage every 2 seconds, and The imp will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the imp is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.

Demon Path: Summon Quasit: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small Quasit hovers over your shoulder and attacks nearby enemies. This Quasit is indestructible, deals 1 to 3 electric damage every 2 seconds. The Quasit will only attack enemies that have already been damaged, and will not attack fascinated or mesmerized foes, and always attacks the enemy with the fewest hit points in range. All threat generated by the Quasit is applied to you. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second.
(The Caster level and Spellpower Scalling was removed.

Core Six
Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second
Passive: Your Imp/Quasit now adds your caster level to the damage it deals


Core Twelve (Note: moved from Core 3)
Devil Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to fire and poison-based damage by 20%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Demon Path: Shield of Blasphemy: Toggle: Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering profane condemnation for 20 seconds, increasing their vulnerability to electric and poison-based damage by 20%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Cooldown: 1 second.

Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good and your Imp/Quasit adds half your fire/electric spellpower to its damage.

Core 18
Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +66.6% fire absorption
Demon: You gain +66.6% electric absorption


Capstone a
Glare of the Pit: Spell Like Ability: Dominate Monster (Activation Cost: 2 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)
You gain: +2 Cha +2 Con

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.

Also Change the following:

Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick). You gain +4 natural armor.

To something like this:

Skin adaptation: Multi-Selector, Choose on of:
Your skin turns red and you and your Imp/Quasit have a -20 to hate generation.
Your skin turns green and you gain +20 spellpoints and your imp/quasit now adds your Constitution modifier to its damage.
You skin turns grey and you gain +20 Melee Power Rating (is that what it's called?) while your Imp/Quasit deals 1 to 4 damage rather than 1 to 3.

and add:

Depending on what your skin texture is you gain one of the following:
Red: You ignore 10/15/25 MRR, PRR and Energy Resistance Rating.
Green: You gain 20/40/50 Universal Spellpower.
Grey:Activate:For the next x/y/n seconds, a dark energy aura envelops you in an aura of magic healing you for 1 to 3 hit points per 3 Sorcerer level. Spell point cost: 60/50/45(?) Cooldown: (?)
Tier Three/Four
And then later you will give you a reduced benefit of the of a second choice, thus no completely destroying role playing builds because obviously a red skin is way cooler than a grey one.

The idea behind switching cores was because I don't want a repeat of the Sacred Defender where you gain enhancements that wont work until you are level 6.
That's about it, consider when making your next round.

Skavenaps
09-22-2014, 03:52 AM
Four things i will like to comment.

1-66% baseline absorcion is OP cause you can hit 100% easy with just 1 item. Make it NO STACKING WITH ANYTHING or put something negative to compensate that (like 25% extra dmg from holy dmg, similar to vampire form) and make it a toggle.

2-About not wanting to commit with 1 element to not favor 1 kind of savant. With plannar madness it will not happend. You have fire, that can be morphed into acid or Electric that can be morphed into Cold if you take the plannar madness enh.

3-Glare of the pit, maybe my memory fails here, but i seem to remember on PnP it was 2 rays of fire dmg. So, this plus plannar madness..

If devil path without plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Fire
If devil path with plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Acid
If demon path without plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Electric
If demon path with plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Cold

4-I understand lots of sorc wanna an easy and cheap healing way, but i dont know if that tree the place for it. Devils are not famous for they healing power.. yeah some have fast healing but thats all.

Silverleafeon
09-22-2014, 10:19 AM
Also Change the following:

Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick). You gain +4 natural armor.

To something like this:

Skin adaptation: Multi-Selector, Choose on of:
Your skin turns red and you and your Imp/Quasit have a -20 to hate generation.
Your skin turns green and you gain +20 spellpoints and your imp/quasit now adds your Constitution modifier to its damage.
You skin turns grey and you gain +20 Melee Power Rating (is that what it's called?) while your Imp/Quasit deals 1 to 4 damage rather than 1 to 3.

and add:

Depending on what your skin texture is you gain one of the following:
Red: You ignore 10/15/25 MRR, PRR and Energy Resistance Rating.
Green: You gain 20/40/50 Universal Spellpower.
Grey:Activate:For the next x/y/n seconds, a dark energy aura envelops you in an aura of magic healing you for 1 to 3 hit points per 3 Sorcerer level. Spell point cost: 60/50/45(?) Cooldown: (?)
Tier Three/Four
And then later you will give you a reduced benefit of the of a second choice, thus no completely destroying role playing builds because obviously a red skin is way cooler than a grey one.

That's about it, consider when making your next round.
[/LIST]

Thanks, I never thought about tying skin color to benefits but its a good idea.

Monsters don't have PPR/MMR (I know that is not obvious because I had to ask a Dev) they are hand crafted. So I guess that is why vulnerability is often used as a player toon benefit.


Four things i will like to comment.

1-66% baseline absorcion is OP cause you can hit 100% easy with just 1 item. Make it NO STACKING WITH ANYTHING or put something negative to compensate that (like 25% extra dmg from holy dmg, similar to vampire form) and make it a toggle.

Absorption is multiplicatively stacked so you would end up with { [(100 - 66%) * (100 - 33%) ] * ( (initial damage - protection) -resistance )) = total damage taken.

However, you have a point since it would easily approach immunity anyway, and that number is probably too high. Anything above 50% is unheard of so far. Will adjust next round.



2-About not wanting to commit with 1 element to not favor 1 kind of savant. With plannar madness it will not happend. You have fire, that can be morphed into acid or Electric that can be morphed into Cold if you take the plannar madness enh.

Yes, but we back down upon a lot of things so now its variety. We no longer have 2% crit bonuses for a specific element, nor do we have spell power for a energy type. We could make the Imps do random energy type, but that might be going too far.



3-Glare of the pit, maybe my memory fails here, but i seem to remember on PnP it was 2 rays of fire dmg. So, this plus plannar madness..

If devil path without plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Fire
If devil path with plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Acid
If demon path without plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Electric
If demon path with plannar madness -> 2 Rays of Cold

You are quite correct.
The choice for dominate monster instead was two fold:
We step away from even more pushing an individual energy type.
We embrace the old Dev design of Dominate/hypno without overpoweredness.
We also move away from pure evocation which is what the Savant tree is.

A literal translation seemed a bit to evoker style, and this emphasized the fear / deception strength of the D&D pen and paper monsters.



4-I understand lots of sorc wanna an easy and cheap healing way, but i dont know if that tree the place for it. Devils are not famous for they healing power.. yeah some have fast healing but thats all.

I agree, to bring in major healing, we would have to reduce damage to the level of a divine and no one wants that. Its similar to being a barbarian ~ you choose damage over self healing (unless you are robot...lol). So the false life / ablative armor gives some defense without going too far I hope.

DrWily
09-22-2014, 07:49 PM
How about an upgrade (T5?) to the Imp/Quasit that allows it to heal you by a small amount of damage that it deals with it's attacks.

Hmm...I think I could work that in somewhere.

Could it be temp hp?

T5 Enhancement:
Feeding: Your Imp/Quasit now gives you 3/6/10 temporary HP every time it deals damage, for 30 seconds. It stacks up to 10 times.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 Prerequisite: Summon Imp/Summon Quasit

Wizza
09-23-2014, 05:14 AM
As a Sorcerer player from the beginning of DDO, I'd never go above Core 3 and Skin Adaption I in this tree.

First of all, I don't understand the point of this tree. Is it an utility tree? Is it an offensive tree? Is it a defensive tree? Is it something else? Right now it's nothing, really. I'm not trying to be mean but there is really not a single thing that is exciting, too much stuff copied from other trees and too much stuff that is useless in DDO.

The capstone is absolute garbage. There should be a Demonic form here, with all its benefits, skin changes and whatsoever. Dominate Monster is just meh as a capstone, I'd never take it.

Nothing good in Tier 1. Toughness is already in EK, not sure why Spell Crit is 1% instead of the standard 2% but that goes back to my question "what is this tree supposed to do?".

Tier 2 has absolutely nothing. Noone uses bluff, noone would waste 6 points to get 6 DR for a few seconds.

Not sure why Acid Absorption is even here.

+3 Saves against Magic on a Sorcerer is useless.

And Summons: summons will never be good in DDO. Just accept this fact and get rid of it. Yes, they make sense in this tree but no, they don't make sense in DDO at all.


Tier 3: False life, really? 20 temporary HP every minute? Make it every 10 seconds, making it actually a free 20 DR/- and I could think about it.

Order's Wrath and Chaos Hammer are level 4 spells, which is enough to say that no Sorcerer will ever get it with the abudance of lvl 4 spells that there is.

Cold abs: see acid absorption.


Tier 4: Again level 4 spells. Again level 4 USELESS spells. All FOUR of them are useless.

Not sure why Planar Madness is here as well. Either you make the chance to every element to get it at Core 3, or there is no reason for some to be in the core 3 and others to be in Tier 4.


Tier 5: Why +1 DC? What's the point here? This is not an offensive tree looks like, no Spell power, not enough crit chance.

Again, more useless spells. Fear: noone ever used this spell.

Ablative armor is actually a cool idea and a useful spell. The CL should scale with the Character level, making it prevent 5 damage per caster level (max 150 at CL 30).

Summons: see previous comment.




So, in the end, I can see what the problem with this tree is: too much flavor. Flavor is not good in DDO, specially when it comes to important stuff like Enhancements, that have to scale well enough into Epics. See EK, Shadar-kai who are full of flavor but everyone is screaming to the Devs to fix them.

More useful stuff, less flavor.

Also: STOP copying stuff from other trees. The AoV archon is clearly an example. And do not even try to make you heal, why the hell would it? Actually, instead of doing damage, it could daze mobs every 5 or so seconds. Try to come up with something yours.

Silverleafeon
09-23-2014, 12:36 PM
Thanks for the input it is greatly appreciated.
THANKS!



As a Sorcerer player from the beginning of DDO, I'd never go above Core 3 and Skin Adaption I in this tree.

When I started the Warmage project there were fanfare requests from Sorcerer players for a tree that one could spent 1 ap to gain 1 usp.


First of all, I don't understand the point of this tree. Is it an utility tree? Is it an offensive tree? Is it a defensive tree? Is it something else? Right now it's nothing, really. I'm not trying to be mean but there is really not a single thing that is exciting, too much stuff copied from other trees and too much stuff that is useless in DDO.

An excellent question. And now is good time to look at it.

What is it?

Hmm... DR = defense ; +1 universal spell crit = universal tree ; think of it as a defensive archmage type in its own way.

The tree probably needs review to not be underpowered, but I am trying not to make it overpowered.
Savant is a tough act to follow and balance beside.

It could easily be considered a huge splash for a single savant.
Taking core 18 and tier 5 from Savant then taking capstone and tier 4 from this tree might be a good combo.
Will have to look at the points spent to see.
You gain 0.25 USP per AP along with +4% USC right off the bat and that is definitely attractive to some Sorcerers.


The capstone is absolute garbage. There should be a Demonic form here, with all its benefits, skin changes and whatsoever. Dominate Monster is just meh as a capstone, I'd never take it.

Compared to the Savant capstone, especially if you are warforged/bladeforged it is actually pretty good.
{Ever go into elemental form as a warforged sorcerer There are reasons why we hardly ever see pure sorcerers.}

Dominate differs greatly from Mass Charm monster in two fold ~ it turns on monster against the rest, and that monster follows your thru the quest till it dies or saves while doing damage and pulling agro along the way. Its not for every play style, but it definitely ranks up there among the best heroic SLA in game for the right player. Just like Hypno can give you that extra second or two needed, this sla will have its moments.


Nothing good in Tier 1. Toughness is already in EK, not sure why Spell Crit is 1% instead of the standard 2% but that goes back to my question "what is this tree supposed to do?".

If someone has a replacement for toughness I would love to hear it.

There are suggestions to make skin adaptation I offer multiple choices.
Gray = natural armor ?
Red = spell casting ?
Green = ?

1% is what you will get when its universal spell crit.. Having 2% implies specialization which is something this tree is not hopefully.



Tier 2 has absolutely nothing. Noone uses bluff, noone would waste 6 points to get 6 DR for a few seconds.

Not sure why Acid Absorption is even here.

+3 Saves against Magic on a Sorcerer is useless.

And Summons: summons will never be good in DDO. Just accept this fact and get rid of it. Yes, they make sense in this tree but no, they don't make sense in DDO at all.

The DR stacks with fiendish DR so in epic levels that is DR 26. Bluff also adds 25% threat reduction during it's duration.

Acid absorption represents part of the defensives package. Combined with an item and Energy Sheath it comes into its own nicely. For someone who is not player a 2 pally / XX Sorcerer / ? monk toon, saving throw vs magic is going to start looking interesting again when Divine Grace no longer offers uber uber saves anymore. {A patch or two after update 23 and divine grace will be limited to {2 + (pally level * 3)}

Since an Acoylyte of the Skin might be playing in Magistar, having the ability to make your Succubus, extremely hard to kill will be interesting especially since it does not cost resources when it dies. Combined, those are massive summons buffs.



Tier 3: False life, really? 20 temporary HP every minute? Make it every 10 seconds, making it actually a free 20 DR/- and I could think about it.

Order's Wrath and Chaos Hammer are level 4 spells, which is enough to say that no Sorcerer will ever get it with the abudance of lvl 4 spells that there is.

Cold abs: see acid absorption.

For heroics, false life + DR / half Sorcerer level is pretty good. For Epic Normal or Epic Hard combined with DR 20, it actually might help. Yes we could consider more than once per minute.

How many level 4 sorcerer spells will Daze opponents effectively on EE. Order's Wrath fits that bill nicely. Again, yes its a defensive option as much of this tree feature such. Holy Smites blinds and blindess on EE is a game changer. I agree compared to running thru a dungeon trigging off mass hold monster and energy burst this is a very different playstyle, but one cannot think we should buff that playstyle.

See my notes on acid absorption.


Tier 4: Again level 4 spells. Again level 4 USELESS spells. All FOUR of them are useless.

Not sure why Planar Madness is here as well. Either you make the chance to every element to get it at Core 3, or there is no reason for some to be in the core 3 and others to be in Tier 4.

There are cheap SLAs and a cost factor to gain Ablative Armor toggle.
The ability to cast a fully metamagiced curse or blindess is interesting.
Perhaps I should drop the poison/contagion or make it a multi-select with more choices?
Perhaps Poison and Contagion should be cheaper.


Tier 5: Why +1 DC? What's the point here? This is not an offensive tree looks like, no Spell power, not enough crit chance.

Again, more useless spells. Fear: noone ever used this spell.

Ablative armor is actually a cool idea and a useful spell. The CL should scale with the Character level, making it prevent 5 damage per caster level (max 150 at CL 30).

Summons: see previous comment.

This is the only sorcerer heroic enhancement place in the game to gain a non evocation DC bonus. And its actually +3 not +1 look at core three six: Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second



If you want a Sorcerer that has better mass hold monster this tier is the place to be.
Fear reduces saving throws and changes agro temp.
It can be like hypno and grant that life saving moment.
This is an SLA that can be fully metamagiced.

Yes, I like Ablative armor and wish there was a Greater False life, perhaps I should write one up.

Summoning a Hezrou or Succubus with +250% fortification, +65 PPR, and +65 MMR is actually going to be a significant distraction on EN or EH. Its not a bad one shot bomb on EE if you don't mind the agro mess it will create.



So, in the end, I can see what the problem with this tree is: too much flavor. Flavor is not good in DDO, specially when it comes to important stuff like Enhancements, that have to scale well enough into Epics. See EK, Shadar-kai who are full of flavor but everyone is screaming to the Devs to fix them.

More useful stuff, less flavor.

Adding power is fairly easy, would to have input on power adjustments from others.
This is not Savant, its something different, not an evocation specialist.


Also: STOP copying stuff from other trees. The AoV archon is clearly an example. And do not even try to make you heal, why the hell would it? Actually, instead of doing damage, it could daze mobs every 5 or so seconds. Try to come up with something yours.

Copy and Paste makes easy coding. I have an eye on that.
But yes, I should be creative when I can.

Something about a devil/demon tree has relationships with an angel tree.
Would be glad to have examples of different things in the tree.
Ideas are good for Devs to see.


All in all, what does a single Savant gain from this tree:

An Archon that can do damage in its energy.
The ability to make a foe up to 50% vulnerable to its energy.
The ability to spend 1 AP to get 1 USP.
+4 Univeral Spell Crit
Up to 20~24 / Good
Some reduction of damage taken
Some cheap debuffing SLA
A decent capstone for warforged
Some hands free auto protection and auto damage effect
+1 to any school of DC with -2 DC bebuff from core 6 and -2 debuff from shaken (fear sla) and -4 from bestow curse = fairly good change of landing that save or die type spell


What does a EK gain from this tree:
More defensive bonuses
See above.


Actually the more I look at the tree, the more power I find.

Places to smooth out ~ skin choices, and wondering if poison / contagion belong here.

HatsuharuZ
09-23-2014, 01:38 PM
In the original "Acolyte of the Skin" prestige class, one of the abilities was gaining additional stat points, amongst other fiendish traits. Perhaps there could be a toggle or form change of some kind, similar to PM undead form? It wouldn't be as powerful, but could provide something like -CON, +CHA, or vice versa.

Also, Glare of the Pit was a ranged stunning ability like Kukan-Do (the monk enhancement). Perhaps that could be an option, as well?

harry-pancreas
09-23-2014, 02:26 PM
looks pretty good, though i'm gonna say i'd like to see a sorc that can self-hjeal without being a robot. From a new player perspective is too hard (i know, UMD, heal scrolls, cocoon, blah blah. That's for an average/vet player, not a new one).

This one could have a toggle SLA that toggles a regen effect, it would be the same as the PM aura.
Maybe 3rd core (lvl 6) for a lesser regen aura and the 4th core (lvl 12) for a regen aura. These effects should be gained at higher lvls than PM's, because sorcs have some advantages over a wizard (spell points, and if you're not a robot DC casting becomes viable with less gear/PL's/etc)

granted i don't like to be a robot, may be not urgent but i'd still like to see that. Probably not a popular opinion though.


Edit: i skipped by accident one page of the post. Looks more popular than i thought. Regen fits with the hellish flavour me thinks, better than FL prolly.

edit 2: i skipped a lot, i'd give good feedback and not an idea just thrown there later :) overall, the tree is a good idea

Wizza
09-23-2014, 02:50 PM
An excellent question. And now is good time to look at it.

What is it?

Hmm... DR = defense ; +1 universal spell crit = universal tree ; think of it as a defensive archmage type in its own way.

Is it a defensive or an universal tree? Not sure it can be both. See below.



The tree probably needs review to not be underpowered, but I am trying not to make it overpowered.
Savant is a tough act to follow and balance beside.

It could easily be considered a huge splash for a single savant.
Taking core 18 and tier 5 from Savant then taking capstone and tier 4 from this tree might be a good combo.
Will have to look at the points spent to see.
You gain 0.25 USP per AP along with +4% USC right off the bat and that is definitely attractive to some Sorcerers.

This is not going to happen. For me, even to gain that 4%, I'd have to give up my Secondary element. This WON'T happen, ever. So, what should have this tree to make me give up my second element? That's the question that you should answer. I'm not giving up 8% fire crit chance and fire spell power to get a mere 4% USC and a minor USP or a few DR (again, I wouldn't take your capstone so I'm not counting that DR 20/- ). I simply won't. And I won't even because at the lower tiers, this tree is not offering much in terms of Defense either.




Compared to the Savant capstone, especially if you are warforged/bladeforged it is actually pretty good.
{Ever go into elemental form as a warforged sorcerer There are reasons why we hardly ever see pure sorcerers.}

Is it? Savant capstone is:

+2 Charisma
+10 Electric and Sonic Spell Power
+1 Caster Level when casting Electric, Sonic, and Air spells.
+1 Maximum Caster Level when casting Electric, Sonic, and Air spells.

Yours is:

DR 20
+2 Cha

Now, if you put in the Elemental form of savants, you understand why I would never take this over my primary element form.



Dominate differs greatly from Mass Charm monster in two fold ~ it turns on monster against the rest, and that monster follows your thru the quest till it dies or saves while doing damage and pulling agro along the way. Its not for every play style, but it definitely ranks up there among the best heroic SLA in game for the right player. Just like Hypno can give you that extra second or two needed, this sla will have its moments.

I know how the spell works but it simply is not good. You never wants a mob following you that you absolutely have no control over, which is why summons are weak in this game and should just be left where they are.





The DR stacks with fiendish DR so in epic levels that is DR 26. Bluff also adds 25% threat reduction during it's duration.

Threat reduction worked before MotU. Right now, noone cares about them. Not even Rogues probably. For sure not Sorcerers who just blow up things so quickly.



Acid absorption represents part of the defensives package. Combined with an item and Energy Sheath it comes into its own nicely. For someone who is not player a 2 pally / XX Sorcerer / ? monk toon, saving throw vs magic is going to start looking interesting again when Divine Grace no longer offers uber uber saves anymore. {A patch or two after update 23 and divine grace will be limited to {2 + (pally level * 3)}

Whoever is not splashed to pally, will not have enough saves on a Sorcerer. Simple as that. It's still a nice enhancements that fits into the theme. I'd lower it in tier anyway.



For heroics, false life + DR / half Sorcerer level is pretty good. For Epic Normal or Epic Hard combined with DR 20, it actually might help. Yes we could consider more than once per minute.

Problem is not False Life itself, which can act as a DR. It's how much it's going to be up or not.



How many level 4 sorcerer spells will Daze opponents effectively on EE. Order's Wrath fits that bill nicely. Again, yes its a defensive option as much of this tree feature such. Holy Smites blinds and blindess on EE is a game changer. I agree compared to running thru a dungeon trigging off mass hold monster and energy burst this is a very different playstyle, but one cannot think we should buff that playstyle.

It doesn't matter. The damage and the daze of those spells are really weak. If you want blidness, you have Incendiary cloud on a Sorcerer.




There are cheap SLAs and a cost factor to gain Ablative Armor toggle.
The ability to cast a fully metamagiced curse or blindess is interesting.
Perhaps I should drop the poison/contagion or make it a multi-select with more choices?
Perhaps Poison and Contagion should be cheaper.

Perhaps, but I still think noone ever used and will ever use neither Poison nor Contagion.




This is the only sorcerer heroic enhancement place in the game to gain a non evocation DC bonus. And its actually +3 not +1 look at core three six: Aura of Fiendish Fear: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Fiendish Fear, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. Cooldown: 1 second

Yeah, you have that +1 DC but nothing to go with it.


Anyway, my 2c.

Silverleafeon
09-23-2014, 03:15 PM
Thanks Wizzy for the honesty, I APPRECIATE IT. I will look things over some more.

I can think of a few changes already:

Core 18 multi-select SLA: chose one:

Devil: Order's Wrath as a level 4 SLA.

Demon: Chaos Hammer as a level 4 SLA
Hmm...better...still weak but better.


Or other...and move the Fire/electric absorbtion to tier 3 in its place.
Maybe we could make the aborbs be 5/10/15% each.



I agree no one will probably use the Poison or Contagion.
Curse as an SLA could be interesting.

False Life toggle while not bad is weak.


What about instead of Posion, Contagion, Curse, or Blindess being an SLA how about your spells have a X% chance of applying these to a target?
X= 5% chance to trigger once per two seconds.

harry-pancreas
09-24-2014, 12:25 PM
Hey, i hope you don't mind, i redesigned some stuff (it's still a colaboration, maybe you wanna mix some of this stuff with yours). I left some of your names so you can find what i replaced (some names like the path of heresy probably don't make any sense with my changes in a flavour point of view).



Flavour text i found: Acolytes of the skin seek to gain power by replacing their skin with that of a demon's.



Core 1
Planar Power: For each point spent in this tree you gain +1 Universal Spell Power.
Choose a path: Devil or Demon; this will be your choice for multi-selections later on.
Requires: Any non good alignment.


Core 3

Defense of the Pit Multi-select chose one:

Devil: You gain +10% profane bonus to fire, acid and cold absorption

Demon: You gain +10% profane bonus to electricity, acid and cold absorption


Passive: Fiendish DR: You gain DR 5 / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Planar Power, Sorcerer level 3



Core 6
Your fiendish skin gain a regeneration effect. Toggle: You regen 1-4 hp every 2 seconds, and this ability costs 15sp every (24 secs + 3 per caster level) while active. This is affected by your alignement spell power (aka light). If you drop below 0 HP but are not dead, this effect can bring you back to consciousness
passive: +2 PRR and MRR

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Shield of Blasphemy, Sorcerer level 6


Core 12
Your fiendish skin's regeneration effect is now better. Toggle: You regen 2-8(+1 per 2 caster levels) hp every 2 seconds, and this ability costs 25sp every (24 secs + 3 per caster level) while active.
Passive: +3 PRR and MRR (total +5)

Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now You gain DR (Sorcerer Level divided by 2) / Good.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: core 6, Sorcerer level 12


Core 18

Devil Path: Magic of Blasphemy: Toggle: Your offensive spells have a 3% chance of triggering a paralyzing supernatural poison on the enemy, unless they save against FORT. This stuns enemies for 6 secs (Rendering them helpless). This effect can trigger every 30 seconds. DC: 20+CHAR bonus + half character level

Demon Path: Magic of Blasphemy: Toggle: Your offensive spells have a 3% chance of triggering a paralyzing fear effect on the enemy, unless they save against WILL. This stuns enemies for 6 secs (Rendering them helpless). This effect can trigger every 30 seconds. DC: 20+CHAR bonus + half character level




Capstone Glare of the Pit:
Devil: +2 cha and +2 con. +10% to fire, acid and cold absorbtion and
Demon: +4 con and+10% to electricity, acid and cold absorbtion
Passive: Your Fiendish DR is now DR 20 / Good.





Tier One

Skills of the Pit I: Bluff +1/+2/+3 ; 3rd Rank: You gain +25 spell points.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Skin adaptation I: Your skin texture switches to red, green, or grey (you pick). Your fiensish skin gains +4 profane bonus to armor (stacks with robe/armor/spells)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements

Resistance of the battleground : +2/+4/+6 Spell resistance

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1


Power of the Pit I: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements



Tier Two

Skills of the Pit II:

Sowing Confusion: Your enemy's confusion galvanizes you. Whenever you use bluff, or use an ability that triggers an bluff check, you gain a stacking [2/4/6] bonus to universal spell power for the duration of the bluff effect, whether or not the bluff succeeds, or indeed if there is anything present to be bluffed.
(i changed DR for spellpower because, i think, if i bluff something is too blast it away, need no defense. Granted there might be a lot of enemies around and not only 1, but i think it makes more sense)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skill of the Pit I


Skin adaptation II: You gain +10% fire(devil) or electricity (demon) absorption. +2 armor bonus for a total of +6

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Skin adaptation I


Profane Resistance: You gain +1/+2/+3 profane( or unique/whatever stacking with most stuff) bonus to all saves

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Power of the Pit II: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requirement: Power of the Pit I





Tier Three

Piercing magic: +1/+2/+3 spell penetration

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 No requirements




Heretical hardness: +5/+10/+15 PRR and +5/+7/+10 MRR

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No Requirements


Skin adaptation III: Gain +10% fire(devil)/electricity (demon) absorption. +2 Armor bonus for a total of +8

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Skin adaptation II


Power of the Pit III: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit II


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four

Battleground's soldier: You gain a permanent heroism effect (+2 bonus to all attacks, skills checks and saves)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Efficient metamagic: maximize/empower/enlarge/quicken

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10


Path of Heresy II: Multi-select chose one:

Devil: Bestow Curse Spell Like Ability: Bestow Curse (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

Demon: Contagion Spell Like Ability: Contagion (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 7 seconds. Considered a level 4 spell.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


Power of the Pit IV: Some of your spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit (devil: fire, acid, alignement // demon: elec, acid, alignement)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requirement: Power of the Pit III


Charisma or Constitution: Choose one: +1 Charisma +1 Constitution

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier Five

Battleground's hero: You gain a permanent greater heroism effect (+4 saves, skills, fear inmunity)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements


Skin adaptation III: You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep. You gain +10 PPR and +10 MMR

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requirement: Skin adaptation IV


Power of the battleground: Spell Like Ability:
Devil: binding chain (Activation Cost: 25/23/20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 60/50/40 seconds. Considered a level 6 spell.)
Demon: Telekinesis (Activation Cost: 25/23/20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 40/50/40 seconds. Considered a level 6 spell.)
Metamagic: no.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements


Heretical magic: +2 INT, +1/3/5 spellcraft, +15/20/25 spell points
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements


Path of Heresy III:

Gain 5+CHA bonus+half character level racial bonus to spell resistance (plus tier 1) (I put "racial bonus" so it doesn't stack with drow's SR for obvious reasons. The lower tier does stack.)

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Path of Heresy II


------------------------------------------------------

What i tried to do (based on your ideas) is to make a defensive tree with some self-hjealing, some unique bonuses with fiendish flavour (in the case of Selfhjeals i copied the PM aura because i think it's perfect for this game).
I added some bonuses every caster tree has, like efficient meta and spell penetration.

I'm out of ideas for the SLA's (though they're weak, i think contagion and poison are fine tbh, not everything has to be uber)

One of the strong points of my designed tree would be the SR, but to make it so it needs to stack with SR gear. IF that's not possible because of the coding, it could be changed to 5+chabonus+full character level for a max of 63 assuming charisma 70.

It's a cheap tree, Total cost if you get everything is 65 ap's if i'm not misstaken so it's possible to mix with other(s)(i changed a few things after calculation, but i think at the same cost).

My favourite things are the regen effect of the 6 and 12 cores and the tier 5 SLA's. I'm not sure how the SR would scale on heroics, it might be OP instead of SR's current state (completely worthless).
Alignement spells suck, but i didn't know what to use to pump up the regen effect. It could be positive spellpower but it's still useless for a sorc. The SLA's could be replaced by order's wrath and chaos hammer (you added them previously)

This what you'd gain if you take everything on the tree:

absortion: 50% elec/fire + 30% cold and acid
AC: +8 profane
Spower: 65 universal
skills: +3 bluff +5 spellcraft
PRR/MRR: +30/+25
saves: +3 profane
SR: tons, even if you're a drow. I'm fairly sure this tree as it is would make it possible to build for SR, even on EE (assumig CHA 70* you can get, at cap, 55+item (base5+30 CHA bonus+14 Half character level at cap+6 full lower tier ) . And it can be better adding completionist and some other stuff. This would be building for it, thus making a heavy investment and that's why i added 6 from destinies)
unique: +2 int, little stacking spower, paralyzing effects, self-hjealing
And some coolness with the binding chain/telekinesis

http://ddowiki.com/page/Binding_Chain
http://ddowiki.com/page/Telekinesis

*cha 70: (18 base + 11 (item) + 1 (exceptional) +3 (insight) +4 (enhancements) +5 (tome) +7 (lvl up) +2(ship) +1 (litany) +6 (destinies) + 2 (capstone)





I hope it helps.

Cheers-

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 12:50 PM
Reread Wizzy other thread and all the comments there.


While I don't have any access to white boards or the like, I do try to get a feeling of what the Devs are thinking.

I sort of get the impression that a third druid+arty+favored soul set of trees would be much more desirable to them than a new Sorcerer tree, perhaps.


So, I ask myself why would this be so?

And then myself answers, look at your last two Sorcerer projects ~ Warmage and AotS.


Both of them sooner or later ran into the situation of competing with or buffing Savant.

Now look at EK ~ it neither competes with nor buffs the Savant trees.

So we have the offensive Savant tree, the defensive EK tree, what is left to build?


I am more used to divines/bards and the like the immediate answer would be buffing allies.
The inverse of buffing allies is debuffing foes.

What do devils in Amarath do a lot ~ they constantly curse us including healing curses.
Or more simply put they debuff us.

Now all the brainstorm so far is good and helpful to the Devs, if you look closely at the Harper tree you will find some ideas from round X of the Warmage project within it.


So, Acolyte of the Skin rerolled might have new goals and ideals.

Avoid Buffing Savant Trees


Avoid competing with Savant Trees


Consider implementing ways to buff the EK Tree


Focus this new version on Debuffing Foes


Focus this new version on a school of magic other than evocation


Consider granting SLAs and effects that duplicate the Sorcerer Past life SLA's random energy effect.


Consider Wildmage type effects that are random.

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 12:52 PM
i hope it helps.

Cheers-

great stuff thanks very much!

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 12:56 PM
I guess the basic problem is that Savant is possible the most power tree set in the game, especially when combined with the Draconic ED.

The Savants do have a weakness ~ one must choose carefully what energy one casts.
As already mentioned in this thread, Devils do not exclusively cast fire, they cast a variety of spells.

So I intend to exploit the Savant's Weakness with AotC rerolled.

HatsuharuZ
09-24-2014, 01:11 PM
Reread Wizzy other thread and all the comments there.


While I don't have any access to white boards or the like, I do try to get a feeling of what the Devs are thinking.

I sort of get the impression that a third druid+arty+favored soul set of trees would be much more desirable to them than a new Sorcerer tree, perhaps.


So, I ask myself why would this be so?

And then myself answers, look at your last two Sorcerer projects ~ Warmage and AotS.


Both of them sooner or later ran into the situation of competing with or buffing Savant.

Now look at EK ~ it neither competes with nor buffs the Savant trees.

So we have the offensive Savant tree, the defensive EK tree, what is left to build?


I am more used to divines/bards and the like the immediate answer would be buffing allies.
The inverse of buffing allies is debuffing foes.

What do devils in Amarath do a lot ~ they constantly curse us including healing curses.
Or more simply put they debuff us.

Now all the brainstorm so far is good and helpful to the Devs, if you look closely at the Harper tree you will find some ideas from round X of the Warmage project within it.


So, Acolyte of the Skin rerolled might have new goals and ideals.

Avoid Buffing Savant Trees


Avoid competing with Savant Trees


Consider implementing ways to buff the EK Tree


Focus this new version on Debuffing Foes


Focus this new version on a school of magic other than evocation


Consider granting SLAs and effects that duplicate the Sorcerer Past life SLA's random energy effect.


Consider Wildmage type effects that are random.


How about a mix of necromantic and enchantment effects? Debuffs are also a good idea. Sorcs don't currently have any enhancements that let them improve enchantment or necromancy DCs.

harry-pancreas
09-24-2014, 01:19 PM
Reread Wizzy other thread and all the comments there.


While I don't have any access to white boards or the like, I do try to get a feeling of what the Devs are thinking.

I sort of get the impression that a third druid+arty+favored soul set of trees would be much more desirable to them than a new Sorcerer tree, perhaps.


So, I ask myself why would this be so?

And then myself answers, look at your last two Sorcerer projects ~ Warmage and AotS.


Both of them sooner or later ran into the situation of competing with or buffing Savant.

Now look at EK ~ it neither competes with nor buffs the Savant trees.

So we have the offensive Savant tree, the defensive EK tree, what is left to build?


I am more used to divines/bards and the like the immediate answer would be buffing allies.
The inverse of buffing allies is debuffing foes.

What do devils in Amarath do a lot ~ they constantly curse us including healing curses.
Or more simply put they debuff us.

Now all the brainstorm so far is good and helpful to the Devs, if you look closely at the Harper tree you will find some ideas from round X of the Warmage project within it.


So, Acolyte of the Skin rerolled might have new goals and ideals.


Avoid Buffing Savant Trees
Avoid competing with Savant Trees
Consider implementing ways to buff the EK Tree
Focus this new version on Debuffing Foes
Focus this new version on a school of magic other than evocation
Consider granting SLAs and effects that duplicate the Sorcerer Past life SLA's random energy effect.
Consider Wildmage type effects that are random.



you reminded me i wanted to add a healing curse SLA...though it might be worthless if it doesnt work with bosses, and nothing work with bosses...lol

because of all the above is why i focused on SR and some unique abilities (binding chain, telekinesis). AotS could be that "unkillable" guy who can make the killing easier for his group with some debuff/CC (binding chain, telekinesis on that mob hiting the squieshie of the party, the fear/poison paralyzing effects etc).
I'm not sure if i accomplished my goal, but that was the objective, lol

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 01:24 PM
How about a mix of necromantic and enchantment effects? Debuffs are also a good idea. Sorcs don't currently have any enhancements that let them improve enchantment or necromancy DCs.

Sounds like a good place to start.


you reminded me i wanted to add a healing curse SLA...though it might be worthless if it doesnt work with bosses, and nothing work with bosses...lol

Aye, but it would be cool anyway.

I ran across an enhancement somewhere in my projects (Ravager?) that reduced healing amp of foes.

harry-pancreas
09-24-2014, 01:34 PM
How about a mix of necromantic and enchantment effects? Debuffs are also a good idea. Sorcs don't currently have any enhancements that let them improve enchantment or necromancy DCs.

that could enter the PM's terrain. I have always seen devils as conjuration and abjuration specialists, and demons as transmutation (demorgorgon) and necromancy specialists.

Conjuration (Except for web and PW's) and abjuration are kinda meh in DDO but, maybe, it would be interesting (if not OP) to add power word SLA's, or some enhancements that reduce the cooldown.
More i think about it, more i like the globe of invul SLA i saw thrown there in this thread too.

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 01:35 PM
Ok here is what I am thinking.


For say a third druid/fvs/arty tree ~ its a seller's market {in other words, the Devs want this someday}, so they look and lurk and ponder in their spare time.

But for a Sorcerer tree ~ its a buyer's market {in other words, we need to sweeten the deal}, so they look and lurk but with a convince me I need this type attitude.

This is all very much guess work, please don't take this as known stuff.


So what I want to do is sell them a package deal.

To this project I am adding:

I want to build 2~3 planar ED, ideas for a planar sphere, and an Acolyte of the Skin tree that has multi-select for Devils, Demons and Mind Flayers.

That way we can sell the whole thing as a possible Planar Update {insert cool name here}.
(I know its a lot more work, but in the end I think it will be worth it.)


First thing on my list ~ kill Savant fans with this:

AotS Core 1

Planar Madness I: Everytime you cast a spell or spell like ability that uses Acid, Cold, Electric or Fire as an energy type there is a 25% chance that the type of energy will be changed to another type of energy randomly choosen from this list: Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, or Sonic.

(The day that we can prove we can create a tree that does not buff Savant is the day the Devs sit up and take notice of the possibility of a new sorcerer tree. This day has now come.)

harry-pancreas
09-24-2014, 01:43 PM
First thing on my list ~ kill Savant fans with this:

AotS Core 1

Planar Madness I: Everytime you cast a spell or spell like ability that uses Acid, Cold, Electric or Fire as an energy type there is a 25% chance that the type of energy will be changed to another type of energy randomly choosen from this list: Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, or Sonic.

(The day that we can prove we can create a tree that does not buff Savant is the day the Devs sit up and take notice of the possibility of a new sorcerer tree. This day has now come.)

mmm i like random stuff, and i really really don't wanna be negative, but i'm not sure if they playerbase like this kind of randomness. It is true necro/enchantment is PM's terrain, BUT instead of DC's you can add massive spellpower bonuses (negative) and, for enchantment, either DC focus or some debuff to the mob's will save everytime you cast an enchantment spell (kinda like hyptonism...maybe -1 to will save per level of the spell cast).

I love your "planar expansion" idea, too bad they will never give us a planescape setting, sighs. :P

I think putting fleshie sorcs close to WF/BF is a good focus as well. Anyways, just throwing some ideas.

You said debuffing too...i suggest devil/demons/beholder (they're outsiders of xoriat in eberron). Antimagic :D

HatsuharuZ
09-24-2014, 01:47 PM
that could enter the PM's terrain. I have always seen devils as conjuration and abjuration specialists, and demons as transmutation (demorgorgon) and necromancy specialists.

Conjuration (Except for web and PW's) and abjuration are kinda meh in DDO but, maybe, it would be interesting (if not OP) to add power word SLA's, or some enhancements that reduce the cooldown.
More i think about it, more i like the globe of invul SLA i saw thrown there in this thread too.

PM's terrain is being able to self-heal while doing necromancy. Fighters, barbarians and paladins all have the terrain of being able to do melee damage. So what? That's no reason do deny sorcerers the ability to specialize in something other than evocation.

And it's not like you'd have to create all-new spells for necromancy or enchantment, as you would for abjuration and conjuration that make use of DCs.

harry-pancreas
09-24-2014, 02:48 PM
PM's terrain is being able to self-heal while doing necromancy. Fighters, barbarians and paladins all have the terrain of being able to do melee damage. So what? That's no reason do deny sorcerers the ability to specialize in something other than evocation.

And it's not like you'd have to create all-new spells for necromancy or enchantment, as you would for abjuration and conjuration that make use of DCs.


ok what you said about is not exactly the same terrain it's true, though i think it would be pretty simillar.

Fighter, barbarian and paladin are all melees but fighters are supossed to be the masters of tactics, barbs the kings of DPS, and pallys the masters of defense (that's the idea, whether it happens or not right now it's another issue), so they're not in the same terrain, they're all melees but different. It's like saying sorcs and wizards are the same because they're terrain is arcane magic.

Wizard terrain is DC casting, versatility
Sorc terrain is fast casting, tons of sp, damage.

Another post of mine states that adding huge spellpower bonuses for neg energy would be good idea for a sorc (it's on their terrain, direct damage)

A sorc using DC's for necromancy, even without self hjealing, would strike me PM with lack of self hjealing, not as a sorc, but that might be just me.


And as i too said, you can work conjuration and maybe abjuration with cooldowns or whatever rather tan DC.


oh, and self healing while doing something else is everyone's terrain now, except fleshie sorcs and barbarians.

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 04:56 PM
mmm i like random stuff, and i really really don't wanna be negative, but i'm not sure if they playerbase like this kind of randomness.

True and it might be very hard to code as well.


It is true necro/enchantment is PM's terrain, BUT instead of DC's you can add massive spellpower bonuses (negative) and, for enchantment, either DC focus or some debuff to the mob's will save everytime you cast an enchantment spell (kinda like hyptonism...maybe -1 to will save per level of the spell cast).

Aye, just think if an AotS could easily drop a curse on a foe ~ that is -4 to saving throws which is a significant advantage without ever uttering the words school of necromancy.


I love your "planar expansion" idea, too bad they will never give us a planescape setting, sighs. :P

Yes I am very keen on a planar update! Sounds like fun.


I think putting fleshie sorcs close to WF/BF is a good focus as well. Anyways, just throwing some ideas.

You said debuffing too...i suggest devil/demons/beholder (they're outsiders of xoriat in eberron). Antimagic :D

Love that, how about Mind Flayer or Beholder or Devil or Demon That should be a keen tree when we are don.


PM's terrain is being able to self-heal while doing necromancy. Fighters, barbarians and paladins all have the terrain of being able to do melee damage. So what? That's no reason do deny sorcerers the ability to specialize in something other than evocation.

And it's not like you'd have to create all-new spells for necromancy or enchantment, as you would for abjuration and conjuration that make use of DCs.


ok what you said about is not exactly the same terrain it's true, though i think it would be pretty simillar.

Fighter, barbarian and paladin are all melees but fighters are supossed to be the masters of tactics, barbs the kings of DPS, and pallys the masters of defense (that's the idea, whether it happens or not right now it's another issue), so they're not in the same terrain, they're all melees but different. It's like saying sorcs and wizards are the same because they're terrain is arcane magic.

Wizard terrain is DC casting, versatility
Sorc terrain is fast casting, tons of sp, damage.

Another post of mine states that adding huge spellpower bonuses for neg energy would be good idea for a sorc (it's on their terrain, direct damage)

A sorc using DC's for necromancy, even without self hjealing, would strike me PM with lack of self hjealing, not as a sorc, but that might be just me.


And as i too said, you can work conjuration and maybe abjuration with cooldowns or whatever rather tan DC.


oh, and self healing while doing something else is everyone's terrain now, except fleshie sorcs and barbarians.

Listens with interest.


THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!
GREAT JOB, YOU FOLKS ARE FANTASTIC.

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 06:18 PM
As we reroll, a little brainstorming.

The devil crew

http://ddowiki.com/images/Monster_Succubus_official.png
Succubus ??? thought this was a demon?

http://ddowiki.com/images/Orthon.jpg
Orthon

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Aspidon.png/350px-Aspidon.png
Pit Fiend

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Monster_Suulomades.jpg/350px-Monster_Suulomades.jpg
Horned Devil

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Bezekira_Generic.jpg/350px-Bezekira_Generic.jpg
Bezekira

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Bearded_Devil.jpg/350px-Bearded_Devil.jpg
Bearded Devil



The demon crew


http://ddowiki.com/images/Monster_Bebilith_official.png
Bebilith

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Draegloth.jpg/350px-Draegloth.jpg
Draegloth

http://ddowiki.com/images/Dretch.jpg
Dretch

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Hezrou.jpg/350px-Hezrou.jpg
Hezrou

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Fire_Reaver.jpg/350px-Fire_Reaver.jpg
Fire Reaver

http://ddowiki.com/images/Monster_FleshRender_official.gif
Flesh Render

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Glabrezu.jpg/350px-Glabrezu.jpg
Glabrezu

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Monster_Goristro_PnP_Dungeon-177.jpg/350px-Monster_Goristro_PnP_Dungeon-177.jpg
Goristro

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/MonsterArt_IceFlenser_official.jpg/350px-MonsterArt_IceFlenser_official.jpg
Ice Flenser

http://ddowiki.com/images/Monster_Jarilith_official.gif
Jarilith

http://ddowiki.com/images/Marilith_Offical_WotC.jpg
Marilith sub-race




And the Aberrations team:

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Mind_Flayer.jpg/350px-Mind_Flayer.jpg
Mind Flayer

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Ancient_Beholder.jpg/350px-Ancient_Beholder.jpg
Beholder

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Dream_Reaver.jpg/350px-Dream_Reaver.jpg
Dream Reaver

http://ddowiki.com/images/Beacon.jpg
Will O Wisp (not an outsider??)

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Antimagic_Shadow_Beholder.jpg/350px-Antimagic_Shadow_Beholder.jpg
Shadow Beholder

http://ddowiki.com/images/Ancient_Nightmare.jpg
Ancient Nightmare

http://ddowiki.com/images/Ancient_Flayer.jpg
Ancient Flayer

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Rare_Encounter_Bestore.jpeg/350px-Rare_Encounter_Bestore.jpeg
Rust Monster (not an outsider ??)

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Bishop_Zasha%27oth_of_the_Fury.jpg/350px-Bishop_Zasha%27oth_of_the_Fury.jpg
Drow Scorpion (not an outsider ??)

http://ddowiki.com/images/Casko.jpg
Mimic (not an outsider ??)

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Chaos_Beholder.png/350px-Chaos_Beholder.png
Chaos Beholder

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Cho%27ahz.jpg/350px-Cho%27ahz.jpg
Drider (not an outsider ??)

http://ddowiki.com/images/Evil_Eye.png
Evil Eye

http://ddowiki.com/images/Eye_Horror.png
Eye Horror

HatsuharuZ
09-24-2014, 06:32 PM
I'd take driders and scorrow off of that list. They're abberations, but they're homegrown ones.

Also, lets assume that succubi are devils. I think that the lore has changed what they are a few times... and in one case, I think they changed from being demons to devils due to some divine shenanigans on the part of Asmodeus.

Silverleafeon
09-24-2014, 09:05 PM
Sounds wise.

Ok Succubi are devils, Scorro and driders are scrubbed.

She is a bit too cute to fall into the demon team, looking at the pictures.


Someone suggested bringing back the Globe of Invulnerability for a possible Beholder anti-magic sla direction, and I like that a lot.

Mind Flayers are into mind control and like, maybe they could pick up the domination routine.

Those demons look like brutes to me, hmm... a possible boost to EK.

We know the devils curse like mad...hmm....

Drathsiddh
09-25-2014, 12:05 AM
Sounds wise.

Ok Succubi are devils, Scorro and Driders are scrubbed.

She is a bit too cute to fall into the demon team, looking at the pictures.


Someone suggested bringing back the Globe of Invulnerability for a possible Beholder anti-magic sla direction, and I like that a lot.

Mind Flayers are into mind control and like, maybe they could pick up the domination routine.

Those demons look like brutes to me, hmm... a possible boost to EK.

We know the devils curse like mad...hmm....

Core One
Choose one of the following paths, Mind Flayers, Devils, Demons.
Mind Flayer You gain charm person as an SLA and deal 1d6 un -typed damage to the target whenever you cast an Enchantment spell.
Demons You gain Nightsheild SLA and gain 5 DR when you cast an Abdjuration spell for 1 minute.
Devils ?

Also, another idea for a tree; "Arcane Forged" basically you have the soul of a dead construct who slowly turns your skin into a construct, which like the PM's will have forms:
Iron Defender Soul: Your soul is slowly turning you into a machine, gain x dr, +2 con, -2Cha and are healed from repair spells, damaged by rust but take a -50 penalty to incoming positive spells and gain the Grease as an SLA.
Then your form slowly increases, giving you that healing option XD.

Skavenaps
09-25-2014, 06:00 AM
What are doing aberration on the list now? I understand in Eberron they come from Xoriath, but they are still Aberration[Extraplanar if on material plane] not Outsiders.

And yes, succubi and inccubi are DEMONS, not devils. The devil" equivalent" will be Erinyes.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Erinyes

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 11:59 AM
Thanks, now doing research on what is an outsider and what is not, what are the outer planes and what is not...including the Forgotten Realms and Ebberon version.

Also rereading the prestige class wording again.

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 12:02 PM
Perfect Self
Usage: Passive
Prerequisite: Monk 20

Description You have transcended your former race and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained Damage Reduction 10 / Epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 12:06 PM
In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game, an outsider is a type of creature, or "creature type". Outsiders are at least partially composed of the essence (if not the material) of a plane other than the Prime Material Plane.

All outsiders have darkvision out to 60 feet. As a group, they have no other special abilities or immunities.

Most outsiders have the extraplanar subtype, but those that don't always have the native subtype and live on the Material Plane. Most extraplanar outsiders are from the Outer Planes, but some come from the Inner Planes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)


Forgotten Realms cosmology[edit]

The Forgotten Realms cosmology was originally the same as that of a standard Dungeons & Dragons campaign. The cosmology for the 3rd edition of D&D was altered substantially so that it contained twenty-six Outer Planes, arranged in a tree-like structure around the central 'trunk' of the material plane of Toril. Unlike the Outer Planes of the standard D&D cosmology which were heavily alignment-based, the Outer Planes of the Forgotten Realms cosmology were faith-based. The planes of the Forgotten Realms were retooled in the 4th edition to match the new default cosmology, with many of the planes or realms being relocated to the Astral Sea, and a handful now located in the Elemental Chaos.


Eberron cosmology[edit]

This is a description of the Eberron Cosmology prior to the Eberron fourth edition rules. For 4th edition cosmology information, please see World of Eberron.

The Eberron cosmology, used in the original Eberron campaign setting, contained thirteen Outer Planes in 3rd edition, and gained at least two for 4th edition under the new cosmology. They exhibit traits similar to those of the standard D&D cosmology but also some (Irian, Mabar, Fernia, and Risia) appear more like Inner Planes. The cosmology was unique in that the Outer Planes orbited around Eberron through the Astral plane, now they are floating like other planes in the Astral sea. As they orbited, their overlap with the material plane changed and access to those planes became easier or restricted.


Name

Alignment

Enhanced magic

Impeded magic

Coterminous / Remote / Orbit

Daanvi, the Perfect Order Law (strong) Lawful Chaotic 100 years / 100 years / 400 years
Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams None Illusion None never / always / off orbit
Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead None None All 1 year / 1 year / 100 years
Fernia, the Sea of Fire Evil Fire Cold 1 month / 1 month / 5 years
Irian, the Eternal Day None Positive energy Negative energy 10 days / 10 days / 3 years
Kythri, the Churning Chaos Chaos (strong) Chaotic Lawful erratic / erratic / erratic
Lamannia, the Twilight Forest None Druidic None 7 days / 7 days / 1 year
Mabar, the Endless Night None Negative energy Positive energy 3 days / 5 days / 5 years
Risia, the Plane of Ice Evil Cold Fire 1 month / 1 month / 5 years
Shavarath, the Battleground Varies Weapon-related Pacifying, charms 1 year / unknown / 36 years
Syrania, the Azure Sky Good (strong) Good Evil 1 day / 1 day / 10 years
Thelanis, the Faerie Court None Arcane None 7 years / 14 years / 225 years
Xoriat, the Realm of Madness Evil None None unknown / unknown / millennia
Thelanis, the Feywild[3]
Dolurrh, the Shadowfell[3]

See also Chapter 5 of the Eberron Campaign Setting[4]

Like most other D&D campaign settings, in 3rd edition D&D Eberron has a number of planes. Besides the Prime Material Plane, the Ethereal Plane, the Plane of Shadow, and the Astral Plane, the Eberron Campaign Setting has thirteen relatively unique planes. Gates or portals to any of the planes are very rare. These thirteen planes metaphysically orbit around Eberron, and depending on their current location are considered in one of four states.[5]
##Waxing/Waning - The plane is either approaching or moving away from Eberron. Planar travel occurs as normal.
##Coterminous - The plane actually touches Eberron, and certain effects are strengthened in Eberron. Also, it may be possible to travel between planes by going to an appropriate spot. For example, when Risia, the Plain of Ice is coterminous, one may enter the plane from Eberron by walking into a blizzard. Because of seals placed by the Gatekeeper druids, Xoriat, the Realm of Madness, is incapable of becoming coterminous with Eberron.
##Remote - The plane is furthest from Eberron, and certain effects are weakened in Eberron. Also, reaching a remote plane with the spell plane shift is difficult and requires a high Spellcraft DC check. Because of the conflict between the Quori and the giants of Xen'drik, Dal Quor is always considered remote from Eberron.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 12:09 PM
Wear Fiend (Su): An acolyte of the skin summons the essence of a fiend and wears it like a second skin. The bonded fiendish skin is for all intents and purposes the character's own. It increases the acolyte of the skin's natural armor bonus by 1 and grants a +2 inherent bonus to Dexterity. The acolyte also gains darkvision out to 60 feet. The DM determines the actual nature of the skin, be it demonic, devilish, or from some other fiendish creature.

http://dndtools.eu/classes/acolyte-of-the-skin/

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 12:16 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiend_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

Fiends is a term used in the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game to refer to any malicious otherworldly creatures within the Dungeons & Dragons universe. These include various races of demons and devils that are of an evil alignment and hail from the Lower Planes. All fiends are extraplanar outsiders.


The most common types

Demons

Devils

Yugoloths


Other fiends

Demodands

Hordlings

Kython

Night Hags

Quori

Rakshasas

Slaad

Half-fiends and Fiendish Creatures

Other Fiends not associated with a specific group[edit]
##Abominations - (Chichimec, phane, infernal, dream larva, phaethon, xixecal, hecatoncheires) - the unwanted offspring of deities.
##Abyssal Drake - the result of an ancient breeding program that combines the nastiest elements of demons, wyverns, and red dragons. From the Abyss plane.[2]
##Achaierai - Massive evil, clever, and predatory flightless birds with a distinct taste for torture. Of the Acheron plane.[3]
##Avari - man-sized, batlike fiends that are the chief rivals of yugoloths for territory. Unfortunately, they are neither as powerful or as numerous as the fiends and have lost much over time. Long ago, avari dwelt in a large central community, but their many wars shattered their unity, forcing them to live in isolated clan in desolate areas of the planes. They dwell there in dank caverns filled with bats, and inhabit similar environs when found on the Material Plane. Of the Gehenna plane.[4]
##Ba'atun - vicious, white-winged primate-like creatures that find death and destruction as their constant companions. Their origin is surrounded in mystery – perhaps they were demons made from snow, perhaps they are exiles from a frozen realm, or perhaps they have always been here, lurking. Their home plane is unknown.[5]
##Barghest - lupine fiend that resembles a goblin-wolf hybrid with terrible jaws and sharp claws, feeds on blood and souls to grow stronger. Of the Gehenna plane.[6]
##Broodfiend - almost headless, grotesque mix of worm, lizard, bat, and ape, created by avolakias to serve Kyuss.[7]
##Daelkyr - Fiends from the plane of Xoriat in the Eberron Campaign Setting.
##Diakk (Carcene and Varath) - evil flightless birds of the Carceri plane.[6]
##Diurge - Gray-skinned, red-eyed denizens of a nightmare realm known as Darkrealm, a nightmarishly twisted version of a Material Plane world. Diurges live to serve the evil lords of Darkrealm, but are occasionally ordered to travel to the Material Plane to spread chaos. These beings are extremely sadistic, hating everything that lives, and willing to manipulate anyone in the process of achieving their goals. They are horrible conquerors, subjugating other life forms ruthlessly, and causing pain wherever they go. Their lack of individual greed enables them to better work together towards this common goal.[8]
##Dune Stalker - fiends summoned to Material Plane to kill targets or carry out other quests. Of the Gray Waste of Hades plane.[9]
##Ebon Aspect - an abomination to not only all that is true and just in the world, but also to the traditional faith of the worshipers of Erythnul, Hextor, and Venca. Appear in the lands haunted by the Ebon Triad.[10]
##Hassitor - extinct exemplar race of Acheron Plane.
##Hellchain Weaver - eight-legged mass of chains made entirely of cruel hooks, barbed chains, and jagged iron. Of the Nine Hells of Baator plane.[11]
##Maelephant - elephant-headed fiends originally created by powerful baatezu lords to serve as guardians, many run free since their lords were deposed.[12]
##Mapmaker - humanoid lizardkin with weaselish features. Of the Pandemonium plane.[13]
##Marrashi - disease spreader that resembles a winged gnoll.[9]
##Nightmare (includes Cauchemar and Lesser) - proud equine creatures with hearts as black and evil as the dark abysses from which they come. Of the Gray Waste plane.[3]
##Nimicri - a unique vast creature that mimics a town that can duplicate creatures if a single drop of their blood touches it. Of the Gehenna plane.[14]
##Shadowlands Oni
##Sugo - flattish brown disks with suckered tentacles. Of the Acheron plane.[13]
##Tener - spindly, bipedal arachnoid; greed incarnate. Of the Pandemonium plane.[15]
##Utukku - lion-headed scaled fiends that kill all outsiders who pass through their territory, including others of their kind. Their lairs in the great ash deserts of Carceri always include impressive defenses, as each utukku must defend itself from all competitors. Utukku want no part of the intrigues of other fiends, and prey on any demons and devils they meet.[16]
##Vaath - a creature of pure sadism that delights in both physical and emotional pain. Of the Carceri plane.[17]
##Vaporighu - petty, sadistic, and voracious blobs of hideous, bloated, waddling hairy flesh. Of the Gehenna plane.[9]
##Viltch - resembles a dirty gray, three-legged mandrill; destroys beauty and order. Of the Pandemonium plane.[18]
##Vorr - a hateful canine of the Abyss.[12]
##Wirchler - a disembodied mouth with two arms. Of the Gehenna plane.[13]
##Yeth Hound - fearsome flying hounds with a frightening bay. Of the Gray Waste.[6]

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 12:22 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberration_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

Aberration (Dungeons & Dragons)

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (July 2013)

In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game, aberration is a type of creature, or "creature type". Aberrations generally all have bizarre anatomies, strange abilities, alien mindsets, or any combination thereof.

In 3rd edition Dungeons & Dragons, all aberrations have darkvision out to 60 feet.[1] As a group, they have no other special abilities or immunities.

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 12:24 PM
Hmmm....anyone ever banished a beholder or a mind flayer?

Maybe ill test that out in game somewhere.



However, I am thinking about instead of dividing up demon vs devil instead making a list of about 8 outsiders that are different from each other. Each one would grant special "stuff" not unlike the long list shown in Arch Mage, but not copying the style of Arch Mage.

So each Cores would be part of a long multi-selection that you choose your path at core one. The skin color would be determined by your choice. I think coding for changing skin color should be fairly easy to do.

HatsuharuZ
09-25-2014, 01:10 PM
Wear Fiend (Su): An acolyte of the skin summons the essence of a fiend and wears it like a second skin. The bonded fiendish skin is for all intents and purposes the character's own. It increases the acolyte of the skin's natural armor bonus by 1 and grants a +2 inherent bonus to Dexterity. The acolyte also gains darkvision out to 60 feet. The DM determines the actual nature of the skin, be it demonic, devilish, or from some other fiendish creature.

http://dndtools.eu/classes/acolyte-of-the-skin/

So essentially, the bonuses you get are the same, regardless of what kind of fiend you get. Perhaps this could be elaborated on slightly, where you get a set number of "fiendish essence" exclusive toggles, and each one has it's own set of benefits, including stat bonuses, stat penalties and other bonuses. Other enhancements could let you choose additional bonuses from a set of options, such as resistance to elements, HP bonuses, spellpower bonuses, etc.

harry-pancreas
09-25-2014, 01:14 PM
What are doing aberration on the list now? I understand in Eberron they come from Xoriath, but they are still Aberration[Extraplanar if on material plane] not Outsiders.

And yes, succubi and inccubi are DEMONS, not devils. The devil" equivalent" will be Erinyes.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Erinyes

http://ddowiki.com/page/Succubus

they're devils in DDO, i think they changed that with 3.0

harry-pancreas
09-25-2014, 01:14 PM
Hmmm....anyone ever banished a beholder or a mind flayer?

Maybe ill test that out in game somewhere.



However, I am thinking about instead of dividing up demon vs devil instead making a list of about 8 outsiders that are different from each other. Each one would grant special "stuff" not unlike the long list shown in Arch Mage, but not copying the style of Arch Mage.

So each Cores would be part of a long multi-selection that you choose your path at core one. The skin color would be determined by your choice. I think coding for changing skin color should be fairly easy to do.

i've banished beholders. I don't remember if i ever tried with flyers

harry-pancreas
09-25-2014, 01:16 PM
What are doing aberration on the list now? I understand in Eberron they come from Xoriath, but they are still Aberration[Extraplanar if on material plane] not Outsiders.

And yes, succubi and inccubi are DEMONS, not devils. The devil" equivalent" will be Erinyes.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Erinyes

outsiders or not, aberrations are from xoriat in eberrron and the skin thingie theme goes well with them in DDO (harbinger of madness chain)

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 01:26 PM
So essentially, the bonuses you get are the same, regardless of what kind of fiend you get. Perhaps this could be elaborated on slightly, where you get a set number of "fiendish essence" exclusive toggles, and each one has it's own set of benefits, including stat bonuses, stat penalties and other bonuses. Other enhancements could let you choose additional bonuses from a set of options, such as resistance to elements, HP bonuses, spellpower bonuses, etc.

Yes, I think time limitations, etc...left the same bonus for all fiends, however that is a point I think we should greatly expand upon. This is something a computer can handle better than a human DM. It would be nice to have a lot of options and choices that is the only way I see we can be seen beside the powerful Savant trees.

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 01:27 PM
outsiders or not, aberrations are from xoriat in eberrron and the skin thingie theme goes well with them in DDO (harbinger of madness chain)

True certain parts of the goggoling I did included things that sounded a lot like that.

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 01:30 PM
We also have to taking into account the roleplaying part of it:

RITUAL OF BONDING

The Ritual of Bonding is a blasphemy that was long ago eradicated from most arcane libraries, but a few barely legible copies—or at least references thereto—survive along with promises of great power. Spellcasters who happen upon such documents can choose to destroy or ignore the find, but the temptation has already occurred. Those who give in can eventually stumble upon the complete ritual, usually through extended contact with one or more summoned fiends that are all too eager to share their terrible knowledge.


This indicates the complete ritual is complex and mysterious which means it could be more encompassing than one might guess at first.

harry-pancreas
09-25-2014, 02:47 PM
the outer planes of FR are:

celestia (Lawful good)
bytopia (NG) lawful tendency
elysium (NG)
beastlands (NG) chaotic tendency
arborea (CG)
ysgard (CG) chaotic neutral tendency
limbo (CN)
pandemonium (CN) evil tendency
abyss (CE)
carceri (NE) chaotic tendency
hades or "the gray waste" (NE)
gehenna (NE) lawful tendency
baator or the nine hells (LE)
acheron (LN) evil tendency
mechanus (LN)
arcadia (LN) good tendency


* i always thought carceri was the one NE with tending towards law and gehenna towards chaos, 'cause carceri is a prison and gehenna it's like a shavarath (a battlefield for the blood war), kinda makes more sense but it seems i was wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane#Standard_D.26D_cosmology

Silverleafeon
09-26-2014, 12:35 AM
Acolyte of the Skin rerolled round 1 is up.

Changes: lots and lots, totally rerolled with very little unchanged.

Holybird
09-26-2014, 08:13 AM
Marilith Gust of Wind appears twice. Assuming that is a mistake?

Silverleafeon
09-26-2014, 01:12 PM
Marilith Gust of Wind appears twice. Assuming that is a mistake?

Definitely, copy and paste to form new core then overwriting with new spells.
Thanks for the catch will look for another spell to replace it with.

Removed Jump.
Moved Gust of Wind down to core 1.
Added Slow for core 3.
Added Rage for core 6.


THANKS!

DrWily
09-26-2014, 06:03 PM
Nice! Love it!

I also noticed that each tier has only 4 different enhancements instead of five.

Silverleafeon
09-27-2014, 12:00 PM
Nice! Love it!

I also noticed that each tier has only 4 different enhancements instead of five.

:) :) :) :) :)

Round 2 rerolled coming up, I have some ideas for that fifth column:
Spell Pen high up.
Metamagics reduced costs.
Etc..

Glad you liked it, I think we have a winner here.
The Devs might tweak it, change it whatever, but this looks like the right design.

mezzorco
09-27-2014, 12:27 PM
Ok, I definitely want to play one of those sorcerers, NOW!

Great job ;)

Silverleafeon
09-27-2014, 01:39 PM
Round 2 is up, hopefully the final round.
Changes:

Added a fifth column introducing:

Tier 1
Superiority of the Outsiders I: Passive: Your total Arcane Spell Failure chance is reduced by 2%/4%/6%.
{The idea is tempt EK fans to splash this tree, and help them out a bit as their ASFC is a bit too high.}


Tier 2
Superiority of the Outsiders II: +5%/+10%/+15% to apply Planar Superiority to wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells. Planar Superiority applies a stacking +100% effectiveness.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders I
{Something a little different.}


Tier 3
Superiority of the Outsiders III: +5%/+10%/+15% when cast for your spells to be considered +1/+2/+3 spell level. This does not stack with Heighten Spell Metamagic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders II
{Although this looks heavy, its only +0.45 DC on average.}


Tier 4 ~ a bit of arranging here:
Blindness Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of applying Blindness to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Blindness had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Blindness is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements

Bestow Curse Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of applying Bestow Curse to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Bestow Curse had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Bestow Curse is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Contagion Planar Madness: Your spells have a 5% chance of randomly applying a version of Contagion to foes as per the wizard spell. This can only trigger once every second. If the Spell that applied Contagion had heighten spell metamagic feat applied to it then the Contagion is also considered to be heightened.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements

{Removed Poison as it is divine only spell.}


Tier 5

Spell Penetration: +1/+2/+3 to your Caster Level check to overcome enemy spell resistance.

AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements
{Something to temp players to take tier 5.}

mezzorco
09-27-2014, 03:33 PM
Tier 1
Superiority of the Outsiders I: Passive: Your total Arcane Spell Failure chance is reduced by 2%/4%/6%.
{The idea is tempt EK fans to splash this tree, and help them out a bit as their ASFC is a bit too high.}


Make it 1/2/3 AP cost, 3/6/10% and we have a deal.
Consider that in EK light armor, medium armor and shield proficiency each cost 2 AP and each grant a feat on top of 5% ASF reduction.
I know it's T5, but Still Spell costs 1/2/3 AP and grants 5/10/15% ASF reduction.
Keep in mind that EK isn't a strong tree, so I'd say 10% for 3APs would be fine. But it's up to you :)



Tier 3
Superiority of the Outsiders III: +5%/+10%/+15% when cast for your spells to be considered +1/+2/+3 spell level. This does not stack with Heighten Spell Metamagic.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders II
{Although this looks heavy, its only +0.45 DC on average.}


You have plenty of SLAs (from AotS and Savants), lots of spellpoints, bonus spellpoints from tree, and maybe you don't have to use quicken thanks to the autosuccess on concentration checks.
This means you'll make great use of heighten, both on spells and SLAs. If this enhancement doesn't stack with heighten, you only benefit from it with 9th level spells.

Silverleafeon
09-27-2014, 03:51 PM
Round 3 is up.

Changes:


Make it 1/2/3 AP cost, 3/6/10% and we have a deal.
Consider that in EK light armor, medium armor and shield proficiency each cost 2 AP and each grant a feat on top of 5% ASF reduction.
I know it's T5, but Still Spell costs 1/2/3 AP and grants 5/10/15% ASF reduction.
Keep in mind that EK isn't a strong tree, so I'd say 10% for 3APs would be fine. But it's up to you :)

Great suggestion, its done.


You have plenty of SLAs (from AotS and Savants), lots of spellpoints, bonus spellpoints from tree, and maybe you don't have to use quicken thanks to the autosuccess on concentration checks.
This means you'll make great use of heighten, both on spells and SLAs. If this enhancement doesn't stack with heighten, you only benefit from it with 9th level spells.

I agree, its been changed to this:

Superiority of the Outsiders III: +10%/+20%/+30% when cast for your spells to be considered +1 spell level.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requirement: Superiority of Outsiders II


Now its useful and hopefully not overpowered.
I considered making the percent a bit higher - 33~40, but its only a tier three enhancement and I want wizard to remain king of DCs.

Silverleafeon
09-28-2014, 01:27 PM
Looking over this tree as a possiblility to share with the possible Warlock class.

The main point I can see, (beside superiority of outsiders III increasing % slightly)

rewording:

Summon Fiend I: Any Evil outsider that you summon automatically has.....

into

Summon Fiend I: Any Non-Good outsider that you summon automatically has.....

that way your summon bonus alignment matcher your person alignment.

This buffs a few more critters and possibly makes it more flexible for Warlocks.
{Went ahead and changed this in the round 3 version as summon buffs are pretty minor affair for most.}

Otherwise, I am really like this tree.
It would be fun to play and offers something very different from Savants.


THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALL THE HELP, WE DID THIS TOGETHER.
YOU FOLKS ARE GREAT!

Will listen to any more comments on this tree, and submitting a report in the Player's Council as well as adding it to the Player's Project Index.



Update 23 is tomorrow which means the PC is looking at update 24 stuff now and in the near future.
Will be focusing on the last of the lost trees (artificer) as well the possible Warlock class.


THANKS AGAIN!

Silverleafeon
10-03-2014, 04:42 AM
Round 4 rerolled is up.

Thank you Edrein, congratulations.

It needs some power adjusting, but I like the ideas therein.

mezzorco
10-03-2014, 05:50 AM
Round 4 rerolled is up.


Orthon I: You gain proficiency with light crossbows and can use your charisma score to hit with crossbows.

Sorcerers are already proficient with all simple weapons, including light and heavy crossbows. Maybe you mean light repeating crossbows.
I'd say give it heavy repeating crossbow proficiency at level 12, too. This helps staying pure without wasting a feat.

Holybird
10-03-2014, 08:07 AM
If this hits live you will see Holybird Tr:ing to sorc at the same second. Love the Hezrou line. Keep up the good work:D

edrein
10-03-2014, 10:37 AM
Ah yes, whoopsies that is indeed a typo on my end. That should be light repeater proficiency. The reason it remains only light is the fact that an Orthon's crossbow is a small wrist-mounted device. I kept my changes to the tree from a lore and functional perspective. As to Blade Barrier, what do you all think? I know it'd be a bit silly to give a sorcerer the option to run around dropping them at level 12, but at the same time if we switched it to say core 18 or the capstone, the power balance of that tree would shift heavily. A marilith can innately cast blade barriers, hence why I put it as a spell for them. If you were to switch it for the core, you'd have to deeply nerf the doublestrike to not make the option compete with Tempest from ranger.

Silverleafeon
10-03-2014, 06:51 PM
I think just increasing the cooldown would be enough for the core 12 blade barrier.
Maybe 1 minute, leaving the sp cost alone?

No more than 1 minute and possibly 45 seconds.

Trillea
10-03-2014, 07:21 PM
I hate to say it, but blade barrier really should be the lv 20 capstone with a standard cooldown. With it, the sorc has access to every massive-damage-over-time AOE in the game. I know that it is the one and only spell I miss from my days as a divine caster. If you swap it with Tenser's at lv 18, it leaves room for a 2-level melee splash, perhaps fighter, monk, or paladin and able to have full BAB. I think this would be a better change overall, because if you go 20 sorc you will get more out of the extra damage spell, and if you have only 18 levels of sorc and 2 of a melee splash, you can get a lot out of that as well.

Silverleafeon
10-03-2014, 11:12 PM
We kind of had this discussion with Warmage and in the end, earthquake (recommended by pen and paper) was not added, but blade barrier (recommended by pen and paper) was added as capstone. So I kind of think long term, Trillea's thoughts are going to prevail.

We DO need a reason for Sorcerers to go pure.

Blade Barrier is a shirdai lovers dream come true...well after nuclear magic missles anyway...