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Khain
09-10-2014, 02:33 PM
after some deep testing i make final decision. trying some pala multiclass with monk, ranger, rogue, but best solution what i find is, that for pure meele is best to go pure paladin, if looking for max dps and good survivability. also trying find best single targed dps weapon and style fighting and my result are that max single targen dps is pure paladin , vanguard tf dwarven axe with thf feats in ld destiny. Secondary enhacements trees are kotc and harper. iam not testing all styles, maybe my calculation are wrong, please send here yours results with testing:). Sorry for my eng language.

edited: changed vanguard with thf to kotc with swf.
Finally i get my future build, its dps paladin, pure paladin human, str based, 41 kotc , 24 harper,14 vanguard and human 1, using swf with daxe, that is max dps, no only from paladin class, but through all classes and multiclases. try it.

edited2: change quicken for cleave as prerequisite for momentum swing

human pala 20

feats:
3xswf, 2xshield mastery, powerattack, quicken, stunning blow, ic, oc, daxe proficienty, perfect twf, perfect thf.

destiny: ld
twists:
legendary shield mastery, cocoon, confront any foe.
playstyle: twitch attacks because not having gthf, using confront any foe every 10s for meele power buff, cleaves and divine sacrifice on cd, using exalted smite for dps burst.
weapons:
thunderforged daxe
offhand: thunderforged orb

with poor eq i get about 230-240 base hit, with right eq and bufs can be about 250-260. with boosts and full blitz doing about 500 base + 50% double strike and 45% attackspeed. Also build doesnt have very good self heal, no quicken and empower heal feats, u can switch cleave feat for quicken and loose momentum swing what is some dps loss.

Seikojin
09-10-2014, 04:22 PM
A 14/6 Pally fighter is pretty strong as well, and you can dip into stalwart to get added boosts instead of dipping into harper.

Khain
09-11-2014, 02:18 AM
yes, that is good option, making you more tank, but loosing vanguard capscone take large dps hit. i am going to harper tree for 9 meele power and charisma, but trade it for sacred defender is also good option. trading about 8% dps for 20% hp.

Khain
09-19-2014, 03:32 AM
edited

EllisDee37
09-19-2014, 06:18 AM
Why the SWF feats? Is there a vanguard enhancement to make them work with shields like there is in the swashbuckler tree?

Palna
09-19-2014, 06:48 AM
Why the SWF feats? Is there a vanguard enhancement to make them work with shields like there is in the swashbuckler tree?

He's using a TF Orb in off-hand. Was thinking in he same direcion, but thought you'd nede the magical training feat or be non-proficient? That light not matter though (havent tested it yet)?

CThruTheEgo
09-19-2014, 09:05 AM
Why the SWF feats? Is there a vanguard enhancement to make them work with shields like there is in the swashbuckler tree?

Nope.

Kriogen
09-19-2014, 09:50 AM
Why the SWF feats? Is there a vanguard enhancement to make them work with shields like there is in the swashbuckler tree?
Doublestrike stacking.

SWF just because (it's popular this days/months/modules/ ... "popular"), shield feats for extra doublestrikes. It's very possible that this combo (SWF+shield feats) will be nerfed in the near future(*). So I'd be careful.

'Orb' because it doesn't break SWF and shield mastery doublestrike bonus works with orb. No PRR stuff, but doublestrike works. Maybe bug, maybe not. In DDO you never know :/

What OP wants/has works. But have a spare LR token. You never know.

P.S.:
"Near future" is relative in DDO. It can be next monday or never.

Bridge_Dweller
09-19-2014, 10:26 AM
A 14/6 Pally fighter is pretty strong as well, and you can dip into stalwart to get added boosts instead of dipping into harper.

And lose Zeal? Terrible idea.

unbongwah
09-19-2014, 11:12 AM
A 14/6 Pally fighter is pretty strong as well, and you can dip into stalwart to get added boosts instead of dipping into harper.
I'd rather do pal 15 / ftr 4 / <splash> 1 or maybe pal 15 / ftr 5 (for Block & Cut) so as to keep Zeal + Holy Sword.

EllisDee37
09-19-2014, 11:14 PM
'Orb' because it doesn't break SWF and shield mastery doublestrike bonus works with orb.Ah, gotcha.

Nightmanis
09-20-2014, 12:47 AM
I still say having 4 rogue for no mercy and quickstrike would be more dps.

Anvil of thunder+holy sword+no mercy= more DEEPZ

Swap to a staff, hit something, swap back to the axe, enjoy another 8 seconds of +25% doublestrike.

Khain
09-21-2014, 05:04 PM
I still say having 4 rogue for no mercy and quickstrike would be more dps.
/
Anvil of thunder+holy sword+no mercy= more DEEPZ

Swap to a staff, hit something, swap back to the axe, enjoy another 8 seconds of +25% doublestrike.

yes but u need also quick draw feat, even with, loss dps from switching negate quick strike boost, i tried it but not very usefull for me. Also u loss pala capstone if you go 4 rougue and its loss of 10 mp and 4 cha and 4d6 light damage which proc on glancing and scale with mp. Swf with orb is now best dps option, but u cant be in defensive stance, witch is little nerf.

Palna
09-22-2014, 01:47 PM
Been trying to get this to work (theorycrafting only, not been on Lama) with SWF and SM for doublestrike which seems best option/FotM, and also get Manyshot (Pyrene type build). I was thinking pal15/rgr3/ftr2 with these feats

Ranger feats: Bow Str, Rapidshot
13 Std feats: PA, Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery, SWF, ISWF, GSWF, IC Slash, OC, Stun Blow, Bastard, PBS, Manyshot, IC Ranged
ED feats: PSWF, PTWF

Would Khopesh be better then Bastard? I'm currently using Bastards so will probably stick with that, should get a little AoE from glancing blows.

Get Cleaves from KotC, Greater Defensive Stance in defender. Maybe Vanguard if it works with Orb instead of Shield?

Palna
09-22-2014, 01:57 PM
I'd rather do pal 15 / ftr 4 / <splash> 1 or maybe pal 15 / ftr 5 (for Block & Cut) so as to keep Zeal + Holy Sword.

Wouldn't 33 AP for Block and Cut be pretty costly, considering you won't be able to use Defensice Stance from fighter so would want that from Paladin? Or was the stance moved to level 3 (thought it was moved back to 6)? There aren't really many good enhancements outside the stance in defender imo...

EllisDee37
09-23-2014, 02:58 AM
Wouldn't 33 AP for Block and Cut be pretty costly, considering you won't be able to use Defensice Stance from fighter so would want that from Paladin? Or was the stance moved to level 3 (thought it was moved back to 6)? There aren't really many good enhancements outside the stance in defender imo...Stance is 3.

Khain
09-23-2014, 03:31 AM
Been trying to get this to work (theorycrafting only, not been on Lama) with SWF and SM for doublestrike which seems best option/FotM, and also get Manyshot (Pyrene type build). I was thinking pal15/rgr3/ftr2 with these feats

Ranger feats: Bow Str, Rapidshot
13 Std feats: PA, Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery, SWF, ISWF, GSWF, IC Slash, OC, Stun Blow, Bastard, PBS, Manyshot, IC Ranged
ED feats: PSWF, PTWF

Would Khopesh be better then Bastard? I'm currently using Bastards so will probably stick with that, should get a little AoE from glancing blows.

Get Cleaves from KotC, Greater Defensive Stance in defender. Maybe Vanguard if it works with Orb instead of Shield?

ranged option with 15 pala is also good, khopesh is maybe better then bastard sword but onky about small margin. dwarven axe is best, because x4 crit and glancing blow. Advance of that having glancing blow is that light damage from kotc proc 100% on glancing, and with good meele power its about 50+ damage, so your cleaves and momtum swing get much stronger. Vanguard not working with orb, only shield bash core work and if u have stunning blow also follow up working. Defender stances not workng with orbs, this nerf to swf with orb was introduced in last lama update. Also kotc cleaves isnt counted for momentum swing, so u need at least cleave feat. Momentum swing working perfect with daxe and swf, fast and deadly. I tried dvine crusader last lama entry and its better then LD quite a large margin, so if u cant mantain blitz up, DC is better.

the_one_dwarfforged
09-23-2014, 03:50 AM
i think a tf bastard sword with dragons edge and crippling flames will greatly out dps a dwarven axe with the same effects. its a pretty limited situation (lvl 28 wep, more used for rednames and non fire immune enemies) but itd be worth making one since you can just cast holy sword on different weapons to gain your crit enhancement without worrying about things like swashbuckling, centeredness, or weapon focus.

Palna
09-23-2014, 12:20 PM
Stance is 3.

Ah, okay. Then 15/5 is a pretty good option :-)

Palna
10-01-2014, 09:13 AM
weapons: thunderforged daxe
offhand: thunderforged orb


What upgrades are you using on your TF gear?

goodspeed
10-01-2014, 10:44 PM
im still rockn the phyrain build. idk about swf, the bards got some good stuff going for that. Race wise i'd probably either go human, or blade forged.

As it stands gotta rework the feats as most aren't needed anymore. Hell even stats aren't needed for that crit feat. Have to measure the best outcome usage for feat/AP usage. Hard to say with class splits though. With the old build before monks became god mode splashes, it was 15 pally, rng, and rog for the manyshot burst. (Again much more easily reachable with less feat requirements now.)

Now you could go 18/2, or 16/2ftr/2rog. or 15/3/2.

However taking into account how this new spell dmg reduction works, it could be more beneficial to cut out the rog if you could half the dmg enough with saves first and then the % cut down. However 15 is now the bar min for going deep. The loss of zeal or holy sword would really jip you.

Either way whatever is built needs to put out or its just the same old dull bladed pally of old.

Chimeran1
10-07-2014, 05:11 AM
Swf with orb is now best dps option.

Agreed.
Thunder forged Bastard sword for the glancing blows, TF orb ( devotion, heal lore, + fire for Crusader )
No brainer really, and no...
Your Balizarde will not out DPS a TF Bastard sword but it will still out dps the Cetus build :)

maayan2003
10-08-2014, 11:04 AM
what is the best split for a swf+sm pala in your opinion?
staying pure or maybe getting some fighter levels or something?