PDA

View Full Version : More pet options please!



richieelias27
09-04-2014, 07:53 AM
So now that you are fixing hirelings and pets with update 23, I think it is a great time to start looking at pet options.

So, here is my suggestion list:

1. Give the full range of Animal Companion options to Druids. We should be able to choose between Panthers, Spiders, Wolves, etc.

2. Give Rangers the Animal Companions they are supposed to have. A lesser version if you must, but the animal companion is a core ability for the Ranger class.

3. Familiars. Why don't Wizards have them yet? You have something that works exactly like the Wizard familiar would in-game already in the Epic tree: Primal Avatar.

4. Spread the love from above: How about we give Artificers some additional pet options as well? I feel like a robotic chicken would be insanely popular.

Uska
09-04-2014, 09:14 AM
So now that you are fixing hirelings and pets with update 23, I think it is a great time to start looking at pet options.

So, here is my suggestion list:

1. Give the full range of Animal Companion options to Druids. We should be able to choose between Panthers, Spiders, Wolves, etc.

2. Give Rangers the Animal Companions they are supposed to have. A lesser version if you must, but the animal companion is a core ability for the Ranger class.

3. Familiars. Why don't Wizards have them yet? You have something that works exactly like the Wizard familiar would in-game already in the Epic tree: Primal Avatar.

4. Spread the love from above: How about we give Artificers some additional pet options as well? I feel like a robotic chicken would be insanely popular.

as to the ranger are you going to give up your free melee feats or free ranged feats? since they gave both in place of a gimp pet. I don't really want to see pets increased but giving druids and arties a choice in what their pet is I can support. Again on rangers I like having both lines of feats free over a nearly completely useless pet.

FranOhmsford
09-04-2014, 09:57 AM
as to the ranger are you going to give up your free melee feats or free ranged feats? since they gave both in place of a gimp pet. I don't really want to see pets increased but giving druids and arties a choice in what their pet is I can support. Again on rangers I like having both lines of feats free over a nearly completely useless pet.

And I'd much prefer a "Viable" Pet on my Tempests or AAs to a feat line I'm rarely going to use!

Uska
09-04-2014, 10:22 AM
And I'd much prefer a "Viable" Pet on my Tempests or AAs to a feat line I'm rarely going to use!

That's just,it a ranger pet wouldn't be viable even if it was double( ie full str) what was supose to be I gringe at the Druid and Artie pets now they are one step from being useless and a ranger pet would be the same or worse. I rarely pull my Artie pet this life and didn't pull my wolf on my Druid life much at all from 1-20 maybe their more useful for those that solo but I try to group. I put pets at one step below hirelings which I rate at one of the worst additions to the game ever.

Gljosh
09-04-2014, 10:41 AM
I really enjoyed my Druid and Arti life because I had a pet, even my Wizard life was pretty decent with the pet. However, I solo quite a bit so I have 3 Druid Past lives (+6 stats). In the past every player had the ability to have an Iron Defender that was just poorly designed (took a feat and 8ap I believe) unless you like a random grease spell and no offense. Personally I would love to see a Cannith Favor grant of a metal based dog that you could upgrade using item from both Cannith raids and the slayer zones. At this rate another expansion gold seal hireling would be great as well (like the panther, owlbears, and lvl 3 Cleric).

The_Human_Cypher
09-04-2014, 12:53 PM
1. Give the full range of Animal Companion options to Druids. We should be able to choose between Panthers, Spiders, Wolves, etc.

Druids should at least have a bear companion in addition to the wolf. A druid in bear form would then have a bear instead of a wolf following it around. :)

droid327
09-04-2014, 02:00 PM
Rangers already get summon spells for animal companionship. I think it'd be simpler and more wide reaching to improve the usefulness of summons rather than force ranger into druids role space by making them a pet class.

dunklezhan
09-04-2014, 02:20 PM
Rangers already get summon spells for animal companionship. I think it'd be simpler and more wide reaching to improve the usefulness of summons rather than force ranger into druids role space by making them a pet class.

I totally agree. I can't think how to balance that to stop rangers getting OP summons at L14 when they get their level 4 spells, but yes, I think that's a fairly fun compromise. Temporary, self controlling, but level appropriate pets. Maybe it's just a free spell they get at the same levels as wizards or druids get their L1-9 summon spells, but they can only have one slotted at once? So your level 19 ranger has their Level 4 spell list, but they also have by that point a Summon Nature's Ally IX available to put in their one free 'summon' spell slot.

Or something. But I'd rather see that than them get pets (unless they were going to do that and force the TWF/Ranged choice similarly to monk light/dark. Then I'd be fine with them having the full druid style pet. But not a wolf)

richieelias27
09-04-2014, 04:08 PM
as to the ranger are you going to give up your free melee feats or free ranged feats? since they gave both in place of a gimp pet. I don't really want to see pets increased but giving druids and arties a choice in what their pet is I can support. Again on rangers I like having both lines of feats free over a nearly completely useless pet.

Because the only way to add a pet to the Ranger class is to get rid of their melee and ranged feats? Who said that? Not I.

You speak almost as if adding a pet with -4 levels would break the Ranger and turn it into a monster, thus forcing a nerf in other areas. Hint: It would not.

droid327
09-04-2014, 07:33 PM
I totally agree. I can't think how to balance that to stop rangers getting OP summons at L14 when they get their level 4 spells, but yes, I think that's a fairly fun compromise.

I suggested something like this in a thread a couple weeks ago...the formula for the CR of a summon should be (Caster Level) + 2*(Epic Level) + (Level of Summon).

So a pure L28 Ranger could summon a Glass Spider (Summon IV) with a CR of 20 + 16 + 4 = 40. That's not out of line with CRs of monsters in L28 Epic quests. A pure 28 Wizard could summon a Hezrou (Summon IX) with a CR of 20 + 16 + 9 = 45.

However, a 6-level Ranger splash at L28 using Summon IV would only give you 6 + 16 + 4 = 26. Not altogether worthless per se, but its not going to be doing a lot and its not going to be viable in EE or even EH. And your L14 Ranger would only be able to summon CR18 creatures when he gets Summon IV at 14.

Scrolls would only summon based on Caster Level + Level of Summon, since scrolls have no Epic Levels :) So UMD wouldn't give you the ability to summon Epic-level creatures from vendor-sold scrolls (think they only go up to Summon V at CL9).

That'd make summons better just by virtue of stat-flating them. They'd still have the limitations of their AI to maintain balance, but they'd serve as more survivable meatshields and reasonable sources of auxiliary DPS.


Because the only way to add a pet to the Ranger class is to get rid of their melee and ranged feats? Who said that? Not I.


Because Rangers were given both sets of feats as a design decision by Turbine when they couldn't implement Animal Companions at launch. They decided to take the PnP ranger, which was a Ranged-and-Pet *or* Melee-and-Pet class and turn it into a hybrid Melee-Ranged class instead.

Since then, they solved the problem and gave us Druids, who are a Melee-and-Pet class. Retconning Ranger to be closer to PnP, at this point, would make a bit of a logjam between those two classes.

Uska
09-04-2014, 07:35 PM
Because the only way to add a pet to the Ranger class is to get rid of their melee and ranged feats? Who said that? Not I.

You speak almost as if adding a pet with -4 levels would break the Ranger and turn it into a monster, thus forcing a nerf in other areas. Hint: It would not.

No its about balance they got both because they lost the pet if they get the pet they need to put rangers back to normal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

richieelias27
09-05-2014, 07:39 AM
Because Rangers were given both sets of feats as a design decision by Turbine when they couldn't implement Animal Companions at launch. They decided to take the PnP ranger, which was a Ranged-and-Pet *or* Melee-and-Pet class and turn it into a hybrid Melee-Ranged class instead.

Since then, they solved the problem and gave us Druids, who are a Melee-and-Pet class. Retconning Ranger to be closer to PnP, at this point, would make a bit of a logjam between those two classes.

These decisions were made long, long, long ago under a completely different development team if I recall correctly. DDO has changed so much since then that I would say recalling decisions made... what has it been.. 8 ago years now? is not entirely relevant... I mean come on, you got about 1 attack per second at BAB 0 back then as well... The only reason you brought a Wizard with you in those days was for Haste.... Clerics were ridiculed if they did anything but heal.... The power of all classes has increased so much that adding a lesser pet to the Ranger would not increase its power by much at all. Totally different game now.

Also, the Druid is a melee, spellcasting, and pet class. And not only that, it can do all of these things QUITE well. In fact, I dare say that with the right feats a Druid makes a better melee than a Ranger does by far (even without abusing the TWF+SWF bug, which honestly makes it the best melee in the game...). So I do not believe anything about a pet adding power-creep to a Ranger.

Anyway... Entire thread is mainly about adding a little bit more choice to Druids (sideways buff. does not increase power), adding a slight buff to Mages with cosmetic pets that add a very small buff to the player (and can possibly pull levers), giving Aty's more choice (another sideways buff), and possibly giving what amounts to a lever puller to Rangers as well (honestly the least important part of the original post).

Point is, being stuck with a wolf or mechanical dog 100% of the time, when the name of the game is OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS is just a wee bit boring. High time for more choices. Hell they could even make the extra druid/arty companions unlockable with favor/purchase with TP. I'd be ok supporting Turbine by buying animal companion flavor.

LuKaSu
09-06-2014, 06:59 PM
I don't really want to weigh-in on the Ranger idea too much, but I wouldn't want to give different summons in place of either ranged or TWF feats. If it was just giving them one extra spell for summons, though, and not take stuff away, I'd be fine with it.

The Druids having choices of other animals, however, I think it a definitely good idea, even if they are exactly the same functionally, but just skinned differently. Maybe have it be a multi-selector or something.

Core 1 - choose the pet
Tier 1 somewhere - some pet-themed boost. (specific for each type of animal companion)
Tier 2 - Tier 4 - each one would have some pet boost that you could use your APs for.

Maybe out of the four, two passives and two actives, I dunno.