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View Full Version : Third Artificier Tree [Lost Trees Project] along with an ED for Artificer types.



Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 03:14 AM
Greetings DDO Players,

I am a member of the Player's Council 2014, acting completely independently from the Developers in this thread which is neither approved of or disapproved of by the Devs. I call this the Lost Trees Project, hoping to help press the Devs forward in creating a third tree for Artificer, Druid, and Favored Soul. {Paladins have a possible third tree coming.}

Up front I want to make several things clear, I have no idea when these third trees will be made if ever. The Devs has hinted publicly that they would like for every class to have three trees. This project is not part of the current NDA list.

Hopefully we can sort thru and create one or more new sample trees as well as list desires and request by players for all three of these classes {Artificier, Druid, and Favored Soul}. (It would also be nice to study an ED for Artificers in the Artificer thread.)

As a member of the Player's Council, I am allowed to present my own personal projects and vision for the future of DDO.

When we are done here, there will be a permanent placement of our theories and ideas into the Player's Council Forums, and I will press the Developer to work towards these three new trees. Even if these don't not take place until after I leave the Player's Council at the end of the year, those ideas will still remain behind to inspire the Developers.

Thank you for your help and feedback, it is appreciated and a link to this thread will be included in that final report to the developers.

Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 03:15 AM
Various Tree Suggestions

Failedlegend's Renegade Mastermaker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5445614&viewfull=1#post5445614)
Singular's Arty ED (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5435326&viewfull=1#post5435326)
Silverleafeon's Alchemist (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5421548&viewfull=1#post5421548)
Failedlegend's Future Arachnotech rebuild (http://www.johnbearross.com/spiderdetail2.jpg)
Failedlegend's Future Battle Engineer rebuild (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/152/1/5/steampunk_cannoneer_by_jubjubjedi-d67bs79.jpg)

Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 03:15 AM
A thread for Arty Epic Destinies: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449048-Artificer-Epic-Destiny-Ideas


Since the other thread is entitled for the missing third artie enhancement tree, I thought it best to start a new thread for the ED. Here is the updated version of what was being discussed in the other thread. Please feel free to add idea-rich criticism. If something is too weak or too strong, please say so. If something should be in another tier, or you want to see something not on this list, post your ideas. Also, I'm terrible with naming things - so all of the names I've used are generic and lack description. Feel free to leave better names :)

Ok, let's build an artie ED.

Innate abilities. Rune Arm Feat granted at level 0.
Granted automatically as you level up in the destiny.
Passive Portion: You gain all of the following:
+1 enchantment bonus per level of Artificer ED including this one (up to +6 total at level 5).
+1 Artificer, Sorcerer, Wizard or Bard caster level per level of Artificer ED not including this one (up to +5 total at level 5).
Active Portion: (Cooldown 5 second): You now have 2 Analytical Strikes: +100 weapon power.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0

No requirements
Bodily Focus I : (Passive) Bonus: gain +25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical Strike and it increases to +200 weapon power.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8

Bodily Focus II: (Passive) Gain an additional 25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it increases to +300 weapon power.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it increases to +400 weapon power.
Additionally, you gain: (Cooldown: 120 seconds) Radiant Forcefield of 35% damage absorption for 20 seconds. [Edit: or decrease it back to 25 and make the duration twice as long as the spell or something, or put something else here – I’m having issues coming up with novel artificer actives]
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20
No requirements


Tier One
Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Artificer Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.

Rune Arm Focus I: Passive Bonus: Rune arms gains +1/2/3 DCs. [edit: tempted to write +1/3/6 here b/c, let’s be honest, rune arm DC’s are among the lowest dcs in the game]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Unstoppable Mechanics : You tinker a bit with your pets and hirelings, adding bits and pieces to them. Passive Bonus to pets and hirelings: +1/2/4 to all stats, saves, to hit, damage and levels.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Weapon Boost : Active Ability: (Cooldown 60 seconds) For the next 9/12/15 seconds attacks that you make are at [+1/2/3] and have a chance to knock targets prone against a a DC 15+Character Level+Str/Int (whichever is higher) Mod reflex check.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Action Boost Focus: Passive Bonus: Your action boosts gain 3/6/10% greater effectiveness. [edit: this might be too powerful. I am trying to think of some kind of bonus to action boosts that does not exist in other EDs]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity: Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 0
No requirements

Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Rune Arm Focus II : Passive Bonus: Rune arms gain an increase of 10/20/30% to their spell power.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 4
No requirements

Unstoppable Mechanics II: You work diligently on your pet, adding bits and pieces to the big puppy. Passive Bonus to homunculus 3/6/10% dodge and 30/60/100 AC and Rank 3: 25% incorporeal.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Unstable Workings: Passive Bonus: Your electric, fire and force spells gain a 1/2/3% chance to critical [edit: too weak? Too powerful?]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Action Boost Focus II: Passive Bonus: Action boost durations are extended by 10/20/30%. [edit: trying to extend endless fusillade by a bit – max here is 2 seconds, which seems fair]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 4
No requirements

Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Force Infusion : (Active) You hurtle a potion of bottled force at a single target. Tier 1: 3/6/10d100 force/untyped damage. Costs 20 sp, affected by force spellpower. Cooldown 15 Seconds.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
Requires:

Finely Honed Weapons : Passive Bonus: +[1/2/3]d6 bleeding damage is added to your weapons. [Edit: this might be stupid. feel free to change it to something else]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

Infused Casting : Passive Bonus: 10/20/30 spell power to force, fire or electric. [Edit: just going off the class – I feel that we, and it, should pay homage to the arties who prefer acid lines, too]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity : +1 Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
No requirements

Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Detonation: (Active) Please choose electric, fire or force. You cause an explosion dealing 1d10+10 of the chosen damage per character level in a burst centered around you. All enemies affected must make a DC 15+Character Level+Int Mod reflex check to avoid being electric: stunned, fire: slowed or force: knocked prone. Successful saves negate the knockdown effect and take half damage. Cooldown 20 seconds. [Edit: I changed this one to be determined by which specialty the artificer has chosen]
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 2 Progression: 12
No requirements

Considered Attacks: Bastard Sword or Dwarven Axe: Passive Bonus: +[3/6/9]% glancing blow damage. Crossbows: Passive +[3/6/9]% double shot. [Edit: no idea for swf]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 12
Requires:

Construct Mastery: Passive Bonus: Increases your susceptibility with repair spells by 10/20/30% and healing magic by 5/10/15%.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 12
Requires:

Electrifying Blow: Active: Your next attack is filled with shocking electricity, is at +[3] weapon dice and has a chance to paralyze the target.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity: Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Ultimate Infusion: Passive Bonus of +3 to evocation DCs. [edit – this looks powerful, but arties struggle greatly to have high DCs. Since it’s tier 5, it cannot be twisted.]
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Improved Mechanics: Passive Bonus adding 1 extra bolt to non-repeating crossbows.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Energized Rune Arm: Passive Bonus to rune arms: Attacks have a 1/3/7% chance to overwhelm the target’s nervous system and cause temporary paralysis.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 16
No requirements

Endless Thought: Your Analytical Strike now regenerate on vorpal strikes.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Endless Calm: Your Analytical Strikes cannot be used for weapons, but instead add 30 spell power for 20 seconds.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16

Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Unbridled Artificer ED Epic Moment : Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins). After 20 vorpal hits, this ability can be activated. If crossbow, then a 10 second endless fulisade with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit. If melee, then a 20 second +40% haste boost with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit. If this ability is taken, Overpowered cannot be taken.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Overpowered: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins). After 20 spell crits, this ability can be activated. You release massive stored energy into your spells for a brief time. For 20 seconds, your spell power is increased by 200. If this ability is taken, Unbridled Artificer cannot be taken.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity: Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence/Dexterity.
EDP Cost: 2s
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 03:16 AM
Alchemist round 4


Innate abilities

Alchemist Rune Knowledge I : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in Alchemist. Gain +25 sp for each level you posses in Alchemist. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge II: The penalty for moving while charging a rune arm (if any) is cut into half. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge III: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge IV: Arcane Capacitors: When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 50% slower than normal. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Thaumaturgical Conduits: You have made improvements to the efficiency of your rune arms. Your rune arms build charge a stacking 25% faster. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier One

Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Alchemist Epic Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.


Repairing Runes : Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Nearby allies heal 1d100 repair energy every [60/40/20] seconds for five minutes. Usable once per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Empowering Runes I : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 2.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Covering Shots : Active Ability: (Cooldown [30/20/15] seconds) Toss three daggers in a cyconic arc in front you, each dealing [10d20/15d20/20d20] piercing damage.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 0 No requirements


Craftmaster The Alchemist gains an additional +2 stacking bonus to all crafting skills. You also gain the Rune Arm feat.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 No requirements



Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods I : Alchemist Stance Toggle: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Gain a stacking +1[W]. Can be active at the same time as any other Stance.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements


Empowering Runes II : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 3.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemical Skillfulness : +1/+2 Use Magic Device

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings : Passive Bonus: Repairing Runes additionally grants DR [2/4/6]/ Adamantine and stacking [2/4/6] spellpower to nearby allies. 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 4 Requires: repairing runes



Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements



Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods II : Alchemist Stance Toggle: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Rune damage to weapons is doubled. Can be active at the same time as any other Stance.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Runes of Fullisade : You gain +3 EF. Your Endless Fullisade regenerages 1 per XY seconds. (Perhaps 1 per 2 minutes?) If you did not already have Endless Fullisade you do now.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: None


Super Turret I : Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes). Multi-select: Choose the energy type this turret does ~ Fire/Ice/Lighting/Cold. You may have more than 1 Super Turret Summons out at a time.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: None


Improving the Formula Any potion an Alchemist consumes is cast at a stacking +10 caster level of the current level of the potion.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 No requirements



Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Super Turret II : Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes). Multi-select: Choose the energy type this turret does ~ Force/Sonic. You may have more than 1 Super Turret Summons out at a time.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Super Turret I


Mobility Runes : Charging your rune arm no longer causes you to move at reduced speed.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: None


Blade Barrier SLA Cast Blade Barrier as an SLA. Sp Cost 40; Cooldown 40 Seconds.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements


Master of the Blades : Passive: You gain +1[W] and the Improved Critical Slashing feat if you don't already have it.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 Requirements: Lord of the Blades Teachings


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 No requirements


Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods IV : Alchemist Stance Toggle: On damage, 4% chance to knockdown foe. If you are using a greatbow this number is doubled.
EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods III


Super Turret III : Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes). Multi-select: Choose the energy type this turret does ~ Light/Negative energy. You may have more than 1 Super Turret Summons out at a time.
EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Super Turret II


Detect Armor Weakness : Passive Bonus: Attacks reduce enemy Fort by -1 for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to [5/10/15] times.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 16 No requirements


Evasion : You gain the Evasion Feat.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Mobility Runes


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 No requirements


Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Turbine a more powerful version of Blade Barrier. Unlike Blade Barrier, it also causes damage (but not as much) to enemies who stay standing in it. However, you can't keep it up for as long.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Runes of the Gods V : Alchemist Stance Toggle: Gain +X melee power, +Y ranged power, and + Z universal spell power

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods IV


Body Of War Fuzzy Math {Sev and Varg can sort it out} ~ an effect to temporarily turn you into a Warforged Titan. Similar to Nature's Avatar form, except attack speed isn't reduced (so the +damage doesn't have to be as extreme). You're not as big as some enemy WFTs found around the game; less than twice as tall as a regular player. Passive 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements

Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 03:16 AM
I want to start out broad and not narrow things down too fast.

1) What do you most want to see added to Artificiers?

2) Should this be a range or a caster tree or a hybrid?

3) Is there any particular theme you want pursued?

4) Ideas in general are very welcome.

5) What ideas do you have or want for the Artificer ED?

6) I would like to start an possible new sphere and call it a planar sphere, if I do I would need to link the artificer Epic Destiny to a plane. Is this possible, or even desirable. The passive bonus for the planar sphere could be similar to the Primal but sp instead of hp.

Orbiting Eberron are the thirteen planes:
? Daanvi, the Perfect Order
? Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams
? Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead
? Fernia, the Sea of Fire
? Irian, the Eternal Day
? Kythri, the Churning Chaos
? Lamannia, the Twilight Forest
? Mabar, the Endless Night
? Risia, the Plain of Ice
? Shavarath, the Battleground
? Syrania, the Azure Sky
? Thelanis, the Faerie Court
? Xoriat, the Realm of Madness

Thank you, very much for your help.
I cannot do this on my own.

Toro12
09-04-2014, 05:34 AM
Arcanotech - the good ; SLAs and meta magic enhancements , awesome. Naturally caster tree. The bad; weak sauce dog related ****.

Battle engineer - the good ; melee and ranged buffs. The in the trenches kinda Tree. The bad - misplaced SP buff from charge state and general weakness in the melee buffs.

---
Idea for 3rd tree
Remove runs arm stuff from BE and doggie stuff from Arcano.
Give BE more melee and ranged beef.
Give Arcano more caster stuff to replace doggie stuff.

Creat new tree with focus on techno
Mucho rune arm buffs to go with thermal venting and charge state stuff culled from BE tree.
Big time doggie buffs (and I mean huge , massive godzilllllla! Buffs) to partner with the AoE toon buffs culled from Arcano .

This splits the arti nicely
Arcano for using their arcane focus
BE for using arcane and techno knowledge for buffing up to fight
New third tree for focus on the mechanical side of things. Tweaking your dog and your rune arm to make them and you better.

Maybe call it master mechanic or gifted craftsman or Steve for all I care

Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 06:48 AM
Thanks!

FranOhmsford
09-04-2014, 07:08 AM
Just one question - What on Eberron have Artificers got to do with the Planes?

Xyfiel
09-04-2014, 07:09 AM
I gave a proposal on ML forums last year for a 3 tree concept once we saw the other two. I begged Steelstar to put Rune arms in the caster tree, make more range/melee in the BE tree, and have a construct tree with the dog enhancements. It has been too long to remember the full idea. I also argued that nothing about Arty anywhere meant they should only get bonuses to bastard/dwarf axe but lost. Anyway I will try to remember my thoughts.

BE:
Change left side to include all one handed weapons.
Move all rune arm enhancements to Arcanotech.
Move wrack and the other construct one to new construct tree.
Add in melee and ranged enhancements. Lots of options that can be copied from other trees.
Add force/electric and maybe fire weapon buffs like EK or swash..

Arcanotech:
Move dog enhancements to construct tree.
Replace dog with rune arm enhancements.
Add + rune arm dc possibly one per core.

Construct:
Construct essence increased to 100%. Become full construct with immunities as tier V or capstone.
+ Repair spell power.
Dog enhancements.
Wrack enhancements.
Repair Amp.

HatsuharuZ
09-04-2014, 11:20 AM
I feel like the current artificer trees were put together in a hurry. Some things were added to the trees which dilute their power, or seem like they don't belong. Also, the core abilities in battle engineer are very underpowered, while the capstone for arcanotechnician is inappropriate for a spell-casting tree.

As for what to put in a third tree, I'd like to see two things:

1) enhancement line that improves upon the benefits of the "construct essence" feat, and has the option of giving some kind of passive improvement to warforged characters.

2) enhancement line for improving the efficacy of items, with a focus on using items that harm enemies.

Livmo
09-04-2014, 01:10 PM
I feel like the current artificer trees were put together in a hurry. Some things were added to the trees which dilute their power, or seem like they don't belong. Also, the core abilities in battle engineer are very underpowered, while the capstone for arcanotechnician is inappropriate for a spell-casting tree.

As for what to put in a third tree, I'd like to see two things:

1) enhancement line that improves upon the benefits of the "construct essence" feat, and has the option of giving some kind of passive improvement to warforged characters.

2) enhancement line for improving the efficacy of items, with a focus on using items that harm enemies.

The current trees are underwhelming to say the least. I was very disappointed and we lost so much!

If DDO doesn't want to make a 3rd tree or ED, at the very least they can clean up what is already available. I think it's ridiculous to have to use the Harper tree to fill the gaps, when we should have the nice stuff already in our base trees.

I would like to see the rune arm pieces removed and replaced. Also, for those of us that are cyborgs, some buff to repair would be nice to have. We should not be punished for going pure arty, because it should be the other way around if the goal is be aligned with DnD. I don't want 6 levels of ranger and a gimped dog.

The SLAs could be allot better, leave in Lightening Sphere in Arcanotechnician and get rid of the others. Replace them with Repair, Tactical Detonation and nice heal throwable like Curative Admixture to heal party members for example. Lightening Motes, Static Shock, and Blast Rod? They can create 2 options for each SLA if you want to keep the those. In general give people options and they would be happier.

Give Weapon attachment from Battle Engineer a makeover to go from meh to oh yeah! It's tier 5 with a long cool down and it's very easy to drop when using a scroll or wand and you have to wait for the cool down again! Arties are supposed to use scrolls and wands. This gives credence to some peoples' claims on the forums.

In my opinion the new arty trees were from a student that waited to the very last minute and pulled an all nighter in preparation for the final exam/term paper. 1.5 usable trees at best, and I give the final result C-. The Harper tree feels like pouring salt into an open wound to me.

Shrimpboy
09-04-2014, 03:45 PM
For the love of god, bring back the old boulder toss. Give it a new graphic animation and name, preferably in an Arty epic destiny or even in magister... But I'm stumped on what else I'd want in an arty destiny.

Livmo
09-04-2014, 03:55 PM
For the love of god, bring back the old boulder toss. Give it a new graphic animation and name, preferably in an Arty epic destiny or even in magister... But I'm stumped on what else I'd want in an arty destiny.

How about a Boulder Toss like item such as a force missile that is similar to a TOW/ITOW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW) and armor piercing? This could be SLA with similar cool down to BT. Can be boosted with force spell power and crit from a spell stick or augment, etc.

Silverleafeon
09-04-2014, 04:12 PM
GREAT STUFF, I am loving all the great feedback.
THANKS EVERYONE!


{Making a note, someday suggest a pass thru for Artificer~you never know while they are in ARty they might do a quick fix up.}

No promises, but have hope we can get a new tree and ED for artiies let us make it a good one.



Just one question - What on Eberron have Artificers got to do with the Planes?

You have every right to ask this question.

There is the role playing point of view and the game mechanics point of view.


Role Playing ~ Artificers are an Eberron exclusive class, and in Eberron Planes are rather important. Each plane can probably be tied into a class fairly well. So Eberron epic toons are more likely to gain an Planar Sphere.

{Yes I know, this is the Cart before the Horse, so let us look at why I want a Planar Sphere?}


A planar sphere would be a bridge between all other epic destiny spheres, which is something we need.

The current spheres are all full atm but they could be added to.

No one will get bent out of shape if we let players pile up at lot of sp at the rate of Passive Bonus: +3 maximum SP and +4 per ten character levels. This is why its such a perfect passive past life reward for a new planar sphere.

We could just have a single toggle tied to the whole sphere: +1/2/3% striding and swimming speed (planar type) {everyone loves movement bonus} [No body will complain about power creep there. If that is too low, we could double it to 2/4/6% striding and swimming speed (planar type) ]


Then we can place all those future ED inside this sphere ~ up to 15 of them without fear of huge past life uberness.

More ED, more past lives, more to conquer, more fate points, and a bridge between spheres without HUGE power creep.


So that fighter has more sp for cocoon?
Much better than more PPR and AC?


THANKS HALE99 this is great!!!!!!



Someday, I would like to see a Psionic Sphere as well.

Seikojin
09-04-2014, 04:29 PM
I want to start out broad and not narrow things down too fast.

1) What do you most want to see added to Artificiers?

2) Should this be a range or a caster tree or a hybrid?

3) Is there any particular theme you want pursued?

4) Ideas in general are very welcome.

5) What ideas do you have or want for the Artificer ED?

6) I would like to start an possible new sphere and call it a planar sphere, if I do I would need to link the artificer Epic Destiny to a plane. Is this possible, or even desirable. The passive bonus for the planar sphere could be similar to the Primal but sp instead of hp.

Orbiting Eberron are the thirteen planes:
? Daanvi, the Perfect Order
? Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams
? Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead
? Fernia, the Sea of Fire
? Irian, the Eternal Day
? Kythri, the Churning Chaos
? Lamannia, the Twilight Forest
? Mabar, the Endless Night
? Risia, the Plain of Ice
? Shavarath, the Battleground
? Syrania, the Azure Sky
? Thelanis, the Faerie Court
? Xoriat, the Realm of Madness

Thank you, very much for your help.
I cannot do this on my own.

1. Warforged Titan mode.
2. It should be a dual runearm tree. So ranged.
3. Yeah, build up to transform into a giant war machine. Or a larger war machine, but not too big that you can't fit in tunnels.
4. I think the existing trees need to be more focused so one is pet specific, one is spell specific, and the third can be more focused on runearms and being a warforged war machine.
5. I would like an ED for them that focuses on being a spell tweaker. Like changing fireballs into explosive air blasts on the same die scale. Making fire bolts from the sky instead of lightning. Lava quakes, etc. maybe too much code involved or art assets. Or a pet destiny.
6. Sounds cool, but I would say you get bonuses from the plane you align with. make all of them available in the cores, and have them tweak abilities in the tree with their plane capabilities.

HatsuharuZ
09-04-2014, 04:50 PM
I'd like to see artificers make things. There are spells that create objects of various sizes in DDO, and I'd like to see some of that here. I know there is the "conjure bolts" spell, but that could be expanded on.

Examples:

1) Caltrops. Small slow effect and piercing damage with no save in an area. Oozes and incorporeal targets are immune to this.

2) Grenades and Traps: Stacks of conjured throwing weapons and traps similar to the ones created by the trapmaking feat, but better. Uses trap parts as spell components.

3) Blades: Like the blades found in Shroud and Shavarath, this would make a great spell.

4) Shrapnel Blast: I imagine artificers making clouds of shrapnel

5) Walls/Barricades: These would have HP and block the enemies' attacks while they last. Ofc, melee mobs could just walk around them.

DrWily
09-04-2014, 06:19 PM
1: A new tree, and the other two to be shifted and swapped around a bit. But mostly, I think it's fine.

2: Ranged/Spell hybrid. Focused towards the use of non-repeaters (they need some love too).

3: My idea for a tree is a dual-selector, like Divine Disciple there is a 'good side' and an 'evil side.'

4: Beneficial Injections, which aid allies. And Harmful Injections, which hinder enemies. Both require using a non-repeater to use them, and the harmful ones are treated as poison-based attacks.

5: Unsure yet.

6: Also unsure.

If you'd like, I can try and set up an Arti tree.

FranOhmsford
09-04-2014, 07:45 PM
You have every right to ask this question.

There is the role playing point of view and the game mechanics point of view.


Role Playing ~ Artificers are an Eberron exclusive class, and in Eberron Planes are rather important. Each plane can probably be tied into a class fairly well. So Eberron epic toons are more likely to gain an Planar Sphere.

{Yes I know, this is the Cart before the Horse, so let us look at why I want a Planar Sphere?}


A planar sphere would be a bridge between all other epic destiny spheres, which is something we need.

The current spheres are all full atm but they could be added to.

No one will get bent out of shape if we let players pile up at lot of sp at the rate of Passive Bonus: +3 maximum SP and +4 per ten character levels. This is why its such a perfect passive past life reward for a new planar sphere.

We could just have a single toggle tied to the whole sphere: +1/2/3% striding and swimming speed (planar type) {everyone loves movement bonus} [No body will complain about power creep there. If that is too low, we could double it to 2/4/6% striding and swimming speed (planar type) ]


Then we can place all those future ED inside this sphere ~ up to 15 of them without fear of huge past life uberness.

More ED, more past lives, more to conquer, more fate points, and a bridge between spheres without HUGE power creep.


So that fighter has more sp for cocoon?
Much better than more PPR and AC?




None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with "Role-Playing"!

The Planes are most closely tied to Divines and maybe Wizards and Sorcs.

Artificers are grounded in the Reality of Eberron and the Prime Material - They are Scientists in a Magical World!


As for a Fighter with SPs - If you want to play a Fighter with SPs we have a certain class called "PALADIN"
OR there's hundreds of Multiclassing Options open to us!

EDs are broken enough already what with being available to ALL Classes and Builds - We don't need to make things worse!

Failedlegend
09-04-2014, 11:44 PM
1) What do you most want to see added to Artificiers?

Something that furthers construct essences idea/theming with a bunch of unqiue abilities




2) Should this be a range or a caster tree or a hybrid?


The two tree's we already have cover weapon and casting so the third one should be a utility/support tree




3) Is there any particular theme you want pursued?


I'd like to see some focus on the construct essence feat with the artificer using his magitech to make himself better...a cyborg essentially...the main focus would be fleshies but don't forget Warforged




4) Ideas in general are very welcome.


Definitely take some ideas from the Renegade Master Maker, Ultimate Gadgeteer, Gnome Artificer, Combat Trapsmith, Tech Smith prestige classes, but also a good source of would actually be the WoW crafting school engineering, lots of crazy inventions with chances of failure (ie. Defibrillator paddles, 2 minute cooldown 50% chance to revive target with 50% health)

I'd also say kill the construct essence feat and make it the core 1 for "Master Maker"

You could also take the Rune arm boosts out of Arcanotech to make room for more spell castery stuff, actually why your at it, take all the Dog boosting abilities and stick them in the dogs enhancement tree whilst simultaneously updating the dogs enhancements to the new style

This is what I have so far

Core 1 Construct Essence - Gain 50% healing from Repair spells but suffer a -25% penalty to positive energy healing. In addition, you now take 50% damage from rust effects. This healing increase by 10% for every Core ability (penalty remains at -25%), Gain Living construct type (as well as your current) +1 Repair Spellpower per pt. spent in tree.

Core 3 ???

Core 6 ???

Core 12 A "repair" version of True Rez (SLA)

Core 15 Auto-Repair Systems

Core 18 ???

Core 20 +40 Repair Amp (for a total of 150%) (work in some sort of "giant mech mode")


Possible Abilities inside Tree

Battle Fist - This would probably be a full line from Tier 1 all the way to tier 5 basically an SWF version of Unarmed combat (rune arm in other hand) this counts as a light bludgeoning weapon AND unarmed (in PnP it was considered natural AND manufactured weapon making it special) for any effects such as improved weapon finesse. The "Arm" can be improved using Cannith Crafting (bigger enchantments per tier)

Note: Possibly make this a multi-selector for a Heavy OR Light Battlefist with the former being 1d8 base but is not finessable the latter being 1d6

Tier 1 - Increases Unarmed Damage to 1d6, Attacks considered Mithral (1d8 & Adamantine if Heavy)
Tier 2 - +0.5w, +X Craftable
Tier 3 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, +1 Crit Range (19-20)
Tier 4 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, +1 Crit Threat (x3)
Tier 5 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, Some special battlefist unique attack...Rocket uppercut :P (+3{w} prone & stunned on failed save uses int for DC, balance check to get back up)


Master Crafter - various bonuses to crafting

Various Warforged traits, some even slightly better (due to newer tech)

Increased Fort (can get up 125% in total)

Increased PRR, MRR/MRR Cap and bonus HP

A couple cool effects that make use of the mech fist....thinking maybe an attack that immobilizes the target (ie. You grab the target with your fist keeping it from moving and putting it in a "helpless" state

+Str, Con and/or Int

"Palm Shot" equipping a x-bow now causes you to fire bolts out of your battle fist causing it to become a ranged attack, otherwise it functions as battle fist normally does. (anything that effects crossbows and/or battlefists affects this attack unless it's specific to melee)

Various "Mass" repairs

Multi-selector allowing choice of Composite, Mithral or Adamantine Plating (as WF Feats) and allows use of docents....gains similar MRR and dodge/evasion restrictions due to "Armor Up"

Inscribed Armor - requires Metal Plating - removes ASF penalty from plating

Bonuses to Will and Fort possibly with no fail on a 1 at Tier 5 (like +2/3/6 Will/Fort than Rank = 3 no fail on a 1)

An ability using your UMD score called "Intimidating Display" where you basically flare up your new tech showing of the arcane lines,etc. a failed save will cause fear-like effect, a succesful save leaves them shaken.

"Imbued Rune arm" - You have become one with your rune arm causing it to automatically fire when it hits max charge and increasing its DC by X




6) I would like to start an possible new sphere and call it a planar sphere, if I do I would need to link the artificer Epic Destiny to a plane. Is this possible, or even desirable. The passive bonus for the planar sphere could be similar to the Primal but sp instead of hp.


I think the "Planar" Sphere would be a good place for EDs that don't fit into the other sphere's and Arty would fit nicely into Arcane.

Livmo
09-05-2014, 11:10 AM
Something that furthers construct essences idea/theming with a bunch of unqiue abilities




The two tree's we already have cover weapon and casting so the third one should be a utility/support tree




I'd like to see some focus on the construct essence feat with the artificer using his magitech to make himself better...a cyborg essentially...the main focus would be fleshies but don't forget Warforged




Definitely take some ideas from the Renegade Master Maker, Ultimate Gadgeteer, Gnome Artificer, Combat Trapsmith, Tech Smith prestige classes, but also a good source of would actually be the WoW crafting school engineering, lots of crazy inventions with chances of failure (ie. Defibrillator paddles, 2 minute cooldown 50% chance to revive target with 50% health)

I'd also say kill the construct essence feat and make it the core 1 for "Master Maker"

You could also take the Rune arm boosts out of Arcanotech to make room for more spell castery stuff, actually why your at it, take all the Dog boosting abilities and stick them in the dogs enhancement tree whilst simultaneously updating the dogs enhancements to the new style

This is what I have so far

Core 1 Construct Essence - Gain 50% healing from Repair spells but suffer a -25% penalty to positive energy healing. In addition, you now take 50% damage from rust effects. This healing increase by 10% for every Core ability (penalty remains at -25%), Gain Living construct type (as well as your current) +1 Repair Spellpower per pt. spent in tree.

Core 3 ???

Core 6 ???

Core 12 A "repair" version of True Rez (SLA)

Core 15 Auto-Repair Systems

Core 18 ???

Core 20 +40 Repair Amp (for a total of 150%) (work in some sort of "giant mech mode")


Possible Abilities inside Tree

Battle Fist - This would probably be a full line from Tier 1 all the way to tier 5 basically an SWF version of Unarmed combat (rune arm in other hand) this counts as a light bludgeoning weapon AND unarmed (in PnP it was considered natural AND manufactured weapon making it special) for any effects such as improved weapon finesse. The "Arm" can be improved using Cannith Crafting (bigger enchantments per tier)

Note: Possibly make this a multi-selector for a Heavy OR Light Battlefist with the former being 1d8 base but is not finessable the latter being 1d6

Tier 1 - Increases Unarmed Damage to 1d6, Attacks considered Mithral (1d8 & Adamantine if Heavy)
Tier 2 - +0.5w, +X Craftable
Tier 3 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, +1 Crit Range (19-20)
Tier 4 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, +1 Crit Threat (x3)
Tier 5 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, Some special battlefist unique attack...Rocket uppercut :P (+3{w} prone & stunned on failed save uses int for DC, balance check to get back up)


Master Crafter - various bonuses to crafting

Various Warforged traits, some even slightly better (due to newer tech)

Increased Fort (can get up 125% in total)

Increased PRR, MRR/MRR Cap and bonus HP

A couple cool effects that make use of the mech fist....thinking maybe an attack that immobilizes the target (ie. You grab the target with your fist keeping it from moving and putting it in a "helpless" state

+Str, Con and/or Int

"Palm Shot" equipping a x-bow now causes you to fire bolts out of your battle fist causing it to become a ranged attack, otherwise it functions as battle fist normally does. (anything that effects crossbows and/or battlefists affects this attack unless it's specific to melee)

Various "Mass" repairs

Multi-selector allowing choice of Composite, Mithral or Adamantine Plating (as WF Feats) and allows use of docents....gains similar MRR and dodge/evasion restrictions due to "Armor Up"

Inscribed Armor - requires Metal Plating - removes ASF penalty from plating

Bonuses to Will and Fort possibly with no fail on a 1 at Tier 5 (like +2/3/6 Will/Fort than Rank = 3 no fail on a 1)

An ability using your UMD score called "Intimidating Display" where you basically flare up your new tech showing of the arcane lines,etc. a failed save will cause fear-like effect, a succesful save leaves them shaken.

"Imbued Rune arm" - You have become one with your rune arm causing it to automatically fire when it hits max charge and increasing its DC by X




I think the "Planar" Sphere would be a good place for EDs that don't fit into the other sphere's and Arty would fit nicely into Arcane.

I like all of these ideas and I was smitten by this since we lost allot of spell power and the dog should have his own trees (and help druid wolf too pls):


"You could also take the Rune arm boosts out of Arcanotech to make room for more spell castery stuff, actually why your at it, take all the Dog boosting abilities and stick them in the dogs enhancement tree whilst simultaneously updating the dogs enhancements to the new style"

EDIT and afterthought, it would be nice to be able choose which spell powers to boost. Of course electric and force, but it would nice to boost acid and cold spell powr like I used to in the old arty line. I used to reset my enchancemtes based on what I wanted to play. I miss being able to boost those.

Silverleafeon
09-06-2014, 02:17 AM
Possible conclusions:

Want to gear up as a pure artificer and use the existing two trees and see if they need any twitch when and if the Dev pass thru Artificer.
Will be taking notes from anyone who wants to give easy to code, quality changes that are not overpowered.
Thanks.


When we proceed on the Artificer Epic Destiny samples, let us make two versions of each one ~ an arcane sphere and a planar sphere so the Devs can have the version that fits whatever future plan they want.


Great ideas, staying at stage one while more player give out their basic concepts and desires.

THANKS EVERYONE!

xberto
09-06-2014, 06:38 PM
Love the turret spell at lower levels. Maybe add some USEFUL and powerful turrets as SLAs for high levels. Acid spewing. Lightening, Disintegrating. Maybe a jackhammer that has an earthquake effect.

Elytia
09-06-2014, 07:58 PM
Arties lost so much in the enhancement pass I'm not sure if they can change it without a complete rework of trees but as for my requests:

1. More runearm Spellpower. Damage could scale if you focused on one sphere under old enhancements. Now they're pointless at low levels.

2. Above all else, remove the stupid speed restriction to movement speed when running with charged runearm or at least drop it down from having to be level 12 to something more reasonable. Unless you have good speed item (not much chance at low levels) it's stop, wait to charge, fire (for peanuts damage) then move again. Every other class gets buffs at tier 5. We arties get to move at normal speed. Not exactly fair is it?

Silverleafeon
09-07-2014, 05:32 AM
Love the turret spell at lower levels. Maybe add some USEFUL and powerful turrets as SLAs for high levels. Acid spewing. Lightening, Disintegrating. Maybe a jackhammer that has an earthquake effect.

A better (higher level) turret summons would be very nice.

Failedlegend
09-07-2014, 07:15 AM
A better (higher level) turret summons would be very nice.

Definately I love the turret summons.

Oxarhamar
09-07-2014, 07:24 AM
None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with "Role-Playing"!

The Planes are most closely tied to Divines and maybe Wizards and Sorcs.

Artificers are grounded in the Reality of Eberron and the Prime Material - They are Scientists in a Magical World!


As for a Fighter with SPs - If you want to play a Fighter with SPs we have a certain class called "PALADIN"
OR there's hundreds of Multiclassing Options open to us!

EDs are broken enough already what with being available to ALL Classes and Builds - We don't need to make things worse!

Guess what scientists study in magical worlds?

Magic! More specifically it's natural sources and how to efficiently tap into them.

drawing power from the planes is a great idea for Artofers weather or not it fits into the DnD you imagine in your head or not.

Oxarhamar
09-07-2014, 07:53 AM
Possible conclusions:

Want to gear up as a pure artificer and use the existing two trees and see if they need any twitch when and if the Dev pass thru Artificer.
Will be taking notes from anyone who wants to give easy to code, quality changes that are not overpowered.
Thanks.


When we proceed on the Artificer Epic Destiny samples, let us make two versions of each one ~ an arcane sphere and a planar sphere so the Devs can have the version that fits whatever future plan they want.


Great ideas, staying at stage one while more player give out their basic concepts and desires.

THANKS EVERYONE!

Been playing Arti/Arti splash Multi class almost excluding lay since Artificer class was Released.

IMO both Arti Trees are rather mixed up.

Rune arm stuff in BE. rune arms are for casters should be in Archano. BE should have more ranged/melee damage multi selectors.
dog stuff in Archano. dog enhancements should be in the dogs enhancements not in Archano.

Endless fusillade should be extended to last for more than 6 seconds. Maybe in tiers EF 1 (6 seconds) EF 2 (12seconds) EF 3 (24seconds) this will make it more compentive with comparative ranged combat Manyshot/10kstars. Now I know they both cost a feat but they also are able to be used indefinitely where EF is an Action boost thus it still is limited to # of boosts.


I heavily multi class Artificers now to max Ranged DPS and ignore Runearms and spell casting outside of buffs.

I think Runearms need a pass as well. They vary too much in shot type some spraying too wide to use in halls others hitting the floor or cieling if you don't jump and fire or aim just right.

I think the rune arm shot should for straight down the line of fire that your bolts travel. If you can hit something with bolts then you should hit it with Runearms not this every rune arm functions differently and is blocked by different terrian.

I think I am spending ~24 AP in BE and everything else goes into other classes or racials. That's just wrong.


While we are on the subject "Shot type attacks" need to be fixed so that if the are not actually fired they do not go on cool down. With a repeater you have to time them just right to not lose the attack in the animation.

I built a 6/6/8 Arti/Ranger/Fighter the shot attacks I had were:
Sniper shot
aimed shot
Leg shot
wrack construct
Hunter mercy
Shattering shot
A good death
pin

Managing all the cool downs and trying not to loose the shots into the animation made this build unplayable with those attacks.

Eventually just dumped all but pin and moved my AP to other things.

Singular
09-07-2014, 10:03 PM
Greetings DDO Players,

I am a member of the Player's Council 2014, acting completely independently from the Developers in this thread which is neither approved of or disapproved of by the Devs. I call this the Lost Trees Project, hoping to help press the Devs forward in creating a third tree for Artificer, Druid, and Favored Soul.

Thank you for your help and feedback, it is appreciated and a link to this thread will be included in that final report to the developers.

Thank you for starting this thread!

I've kind of left playing arties b/c the recent changes continue to disappoint me, leaving my artie further and further behind at end game. But I miss her :)

And I understand that it's difficult not to affect arties when attempting to balance ranged damage at the moncher level. It's just disappointing that arties have to suffer for it.


For the love of god, bring back the old boulder toss. Give it a new graphic animation and name, preferably in an Arty epic destiny or even in magister... But I'm stumped on what else I'd want in an arty destiny.


How about a Boulder Toss like item such as a force missile that is similar to a TOW/ITOW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW) and armor piercing? This could be SLA with similar cool down to BT. Can be boosted with force spell power and crit from a spell stick or augment, etc.

Both great comments. Losing a force buffed boulder toss cost pure arties 10-15% of their dps output. If/when an artie ED is made, we should have something artificer-like to replace BT. I'm all for a tossed explosive or a single target infusion - the infusions rock, they're a purely artificer thing. So something along those lines, like a toss molotov cocktail bomb, or a force boulder toss, or perhaps a super charged rune arm blast.

In fact...an artie ED should have:

- buffs to xbow, bastard sword and dwarven axe
- buffs to rune arm damage
- buffs to artie spells (possibly including an 'energy burst' effect artie style)
- buffs to spell points, max level, and DCs (both rune arm and spell)
- poss. buffs to pets

In fact, I think it would be pretty easy for the Devs to make an artie ED. All EDs have 2 or 3 'streams' in that you can go one way or another. It's pretty clear that an artie ED would have you chose between melee/ranged on one side while having infusion on other other.


Something that furthers construct essences idea/theming with a bunch of unqiue abilities

The two tree's we already have cover weapon and casting so the third one should be a utility/support tree

I'd like to see some focus on the construct essence feat with the artificer using his magitech to make himself better...a cyborg essentially...the main focus would be fleshies but don't forget Warforged

I think most of your ideas are great. These two bother me:


Battle Fist

It feels too monkish to me. Why give arties an unarmed option? We have nothing else to buff unarmed attacks - it feels this would either synergize with monk (something I don't really get why arties should) or it would be another lost, unsupported stepchild (like acid spell power and crits for arties...).


"Imbued Rune arm" - You have become one with your rune arm causing it to automatically fire when it hits max charge and increasing its DC by X

I really don't like the idea of making my rune arm automatically fire. That immediately decreases my ability to direct dps where I need it. No! Unless it's a toggle - like 'auto-attack rune arm' - then no, that would be bad.

HatsuharuZ
09-07-2014, 11:12 PM
Battle Engineer's core abilities are a bit weak, so how about adding something in there that lets "Weapon Attachment" add additional abilities, such as DR bypass (adamantine?), bleeding, knockdown on vorpal... or something like that.

Failedlegend
09-08-2014, 12:00 AM
It feels too monkish to me. Why give arties an unarmed option? We have nothing else to buff unarmed attacks - it feels this would either synergize with monk (something I don't really get why arties should) or it would be another lost, unsupported stepchild (like acid spell power and crits for arties...).


It's from the Renegade Mastermaker Prestige class which is all about a fleshies "achieving perfection" through body mods, pretty much the defacto "make construct essence better" prestige class

Battlefist: You have used your skill and ingenuity to create a battlefist. The battlefist is a mechanical hand that resembles a gauntlet with articulated fingers. Through a grueling and painful ordeal requiring a full day of construction and surgery, you permanently attach the battlefist to your arm, replacing your hand in the process. Your battlefist functions like your hand formerly did, and it does not inconvenience you in the least.

You are considered proficient with your battlefist, and it is treated as if it were a both a natural and a manufactured weapon.

At 2nd level, your battlefist becomes a magic weapon and gains a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus improves by 1 at 5th level and again at 9th level. A battlefist with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus can be further enhanced or improved with Craft Magic Arms and Armor just as if it were a magic weapon. (hence the suggested crafting ability.

As for "being supported" the enhancement line itself should be designed to do that.



I really don't like the idea of making my rune arm automatically fire. That immediately decreases my ability to direct dps where I need it. No! Unless it's a toggle - like 'auto-attack rune arm' - then no, that would be bad.

It's a enhancement , doesn't need to be a toggle since you don't need to take it.

Singular
09-08-2014, 08:57 PM
It's from the Renegade Mastermaker Prestige class which is all about a fleshies "achieving perfection" through body mods, pretty much the defacto "make construct essence better" prestige class

Battlefist: You have used your skill and ingenuity to create a battlefist. The battlefist is a mechanical hand that resembles a gauntlet with articulated fingers. Through a grueling and painful ordeal requiring a full day of construction and surgery, you permanently attach the battlefist to your arm, replacing your hand in the process. Your battlefist functions like your hand formerly did, and it does not inconvenience you in the least.

You are considered proficient with your battlefist, and it is treated as if it were a both a natural and a manufactured weapon.

At 2nd level, your battlefist becomes a magic weapon and gains a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus improves by 1 at 5th level and again at 9th level. A battlefist with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus can be further enhanced or improved with Craft Magic Arms and Armor just as if it were a magic weapon. (hence the suggested crafting ability.

As for "being supported" the enhancement line itself should be designed to do that.

Ah, I see. I didn't know there was such a thing. In DDO, putting that in would basically be adding another monk-splash multiclass. or maybe this one would be an artie splash.


It's a enhancement , doesn't need to be a toggle since you don't need to take it.

If all it does is make your rune arm fire, then sure, I'm all for people taking that. I can't imagine why they would, though. Our spell power is maximal when the rune arm is maximally charged, which means to produce max dps you want to fire off your energy bursts and spells, then fire the rune arm. Having it auto-fire would make that pretty difficult.

If there are other benefits for taking it, then it needs a toggle.

Failedlegend
09-08-2014, 10:17 PM
Ah, I see. I didn't know there was such a thing. In DDO, putting that in would basically be adding another monk-splash multiclass. or maybe this one would be an artie splash.


Could easily be made not to stack, Arty is already anti-monk wouldn't hurt to make battle fist incompatible with Monks

Oxarhamar
09-08-2014, 10:30 PM
Could easily be made not to stack, Arty is already anti-monk wouldn't hurt to make battle fist incompatible with Monks

Or make battle fist center while using a rune arm.

Blamo! monkificer

Failedlegend
09-08-2014, 11:39 PM
Or make battle fist center while using a rune arm.

Blamo! monkificer

The goal is to have this be NOT compatible with Monk so it creates an alternative unarmed style to Monks.

DrWily
09-09-2014, 12:30 AM
The goal is to have this be NOT compatible with Monk so it creates an alternative unarmed style to Monks.

That was a thought I had for a "Brawler" style enhancement tree.

Oxarhamar
09-09-2014, 03:52 AM
The goal is to have this be NOT compatible with Monk so it creates an alternative unarmed style to Monks.

It was a joke

The last thing we need is another unarmed fighting style after Druid worf nightmare

I would not support a 3rd tree for artificer that did not alight with the combat styles already available melee/ranged and Caster/rune arm

artificers trees are weak they need a tree that supports their existing styles unless their existing trees get a complete overhaul like I suggested earlier in the thread adding a new tree with a new style for Arti that does not build on and compliment the exhausting trees just leaves Artificer in the same position as it is now spread too thin into different styles.


Interestingly enough from the Eberron campaign setting :

This +1 weapon resembles a massively oversized spiked gauntlet; one designed for a Medium warforged looks like a gauntlet designed for an ogre. It attaches to the arm of a warforged, completely covering the hand. This component only operates when attached and locked in place.
A battlefist increases the damage dealt by the character’s natural slam attack to 1d8 points of bludgeoning and piercing damage (assuming a Medium character). Versions with higher enhancement bonuses are not uncommon.
A warforged monk who uses a battlefist deals increased unarmed damage as though the character were one size larger than actual, and he can add the battle fist’s enhancement bonus to his unarmed attack and damage rolls.

Singular
09-09-2014, 04:51 AM
Could easily be made not to stack, Arty is already anti-monk wouldn't hurt to make battle fist incompatible with Monks

I didn't mean that would be bad, I was just concluding where that would go. It might be kind of neat to see some cyborg monks.

Singular
09-09-2014, 04:53 AM
It was a joke

I would not support a 3rd tree for artificer that did not alight with the combat styles already available melee/ranged and Caster/rune arm

artificers trees are weak they need a tree that supports their existing styles unless their existing trees get a complete overhaul like I suggested earlier in the thread adding a new tree with a new style for Arti that does not build on and compliment the exhausting trees just leaves Artificer in the same position as it is now spread too thin into different styles.

Totally. It would be very nice to see arties competitive in high levels again.

Failedlegend
09-09-2014, 09:44 AM
artificers trees are weak they need a tree that supports their existing styles

So than the solution is to improve those trees not use a new tree to supplement them

HatsuharuZ
09-09-2014, 10:46 AM
So than the solution is to improve those trees not use a new tree to supplement them

Why not have both? The Devs did that with bards, and the results were great~

Oxarhamar
09-09-2014, 11:42 AM
Why not have both? The Devs did that with bards, and the results were great~

Exactly

The trees do need fixing but, they should have a third tree that can supliment one or the other through multi selectors and different paths.

Trees that compliment each other are far more likely to create a powerful pure than 3 rag tag trees with little synergy.


Otherwise you can give Artificer whatever tree you want I'll just ignore it and multi class my Artificer as I do now.

Failedlegend
09-09-2014, 05:52 PM
Exactly

The trees do need fixing but, they should have a third tree that can supplement one or the other through multi selectors and different paths.

Trees that compliment each other are far more likely to create a powerful pure than 3 rag tag trees with little synergy.


Otherwise you can give Artificer whatever tree you want I'll just ignore it and multi class my Artificer as I do now.

I never said to make it incompatible with the other trees I just it's a bad idea to make a 3rd tree to mask that the other trees are bad...the renegade Master maker tree (including battle fist and everything else I mentioned) would work just fine with the others since it's the utility/support tree. Even if the user didn't want to utilize the battle fist line.

Besides the Modus operandi of the devs seems to be to fix existing trees of a class whenever they add a new one (ie. Paladin or Bard)

Oxarhamar
09-09-2014, 10:32 PM
I never said to make it incompatible with the other trees I just it's a bad idea to make a 3rd tree to mask that the other trees are bad...the renegade Master maker tree (including battle fist and everything else I mentioned) would work just fine with the others since it's the utility/support tree. Even if the user didn't want to utilize the battle fist line.

Besides the Modus operandi of the devs seems to be to fix existing trees of a class whenever they add a new one (ie. Paladin or Bard)

Least can we agree on that bit.

Do hope the schedual Arti for revamp sooner or later I feel like it gets over looked due to all the ranged hate on the forums

Silverleafeon
09-10-2014, 09:11 AM
I started a sample tree on Druid and Favored Soul, but am going to leave the artificier tree open for debate another week.
See if we can get some more good ideas before we begin.

The Druid tree possible choice is beastmaster, and I am leaving it openended to allow a druid/artificer summons multiclass build be possible.

DrWily
09-11-2014, 05:42 PM
Does anyone else want to see hand crossbows put into the game?

Drathsiddh
09-12-2014, 01:48 AM
I like failedlegends idea of a "Construct" tree like the Pale Master. Artis need to have more racial options, not be locked into Warforged, but OP may also be a problem, Drow get bonus to Int, Dex and Cha, three very important stats to the class, taking a penalty to Con the only other important stat. With that said, I have an idea;
Make runearms affect spells and weapons (if it is OP make it affect spells instead of weapons) or make a Master Mechanic type of tree, granting evasion and trapping skills.

Silverleafeon
09-12-2014, 02:41 AM
Does anyone else want to see hand crossbows put into the game?

An excellent question, anyone?





The Druid beastmaster tree is now being changed to gatekeeper with the best of beastmaster taking up a column or so.

Hence a artificer dog buff tree as the main theme would likely follow the same route ~ abandoned and becoming part of a greater tree with a broader theme. So we will not make that mistake twice, although, some buffs for arty dogs is not a bad ideas as a small part of the upcoming tree.

Irongutz2000
09-12-2014, 05:38 AM
An excellent question, anyone?





The Druid beastmaster tree is now being changed to gatekeeper with the best of beastmaster taking up a column or so.

Hence a artificer dog buff tree as the main theme would likely follow the same route ~ abandoned and becoming part of a greater tree with a broader theme. So we will not make that mistake twice, although, some buffs for arty dogs is not a bad ideas as a small part of the upcoming tree.
Dogs need huge buffs IMO. There AI is just horrible, I can move out of danger in EE's but unless I heal him constantly he dies. He just stands there and takes it to the face , he has 1400+ HP at cap but he has low prr 30? maxed out with an augment slotted.

The healing over time thing need to heal for more ( its scaled for heroics not EE's )
U need an option to get more prr on the dog
Also some gaurds would be nice.

Yes I have tested with a lot invested in the dog including a shadow scale docent

Silverleafeon
09-13-2014, 12:46 AM
Dogs need huge buffs IMO.

Noted, and will include the same request as the druid fans had:

Please Devs include an update to the arty/druid companions when you can, preferably along with the lost third tree...

In the meantime, it seems appropriate to include a column reserved just for extra quality companion buffs, that will help pack the tree up with 5 columns.



A random thought, I have been pondering an alchemist tree / epic destiny theme someday, with tons of ways to make consumables and like worthwhile...I recall a pen and paper play by post game that I DMed a few years ago, where an artificer would literally burn up a quarter or more of a wand to make particularly effective rounds for the party...

LuKaSu
09-13-2014, 01:09 AM
It's from the Renegade Mastermaker Prestige class which is all about a fleshies "achieving perfection" through body mods, pretty much the defacto "make construct essence better" prestige class

Battlefist: You have used your skill and ingenuity to create a battlefist. The battlefist is a mechanical hand that resembles a gauntlet with articulated fingers. Through a grueling and painful ordeal requiring a full day of construction and surgery, you permanently attach the battlefist to your arm, replacing your hand in the process. Your battlefist functions like your hand formerly did, and it does not inconvenience you in the least.

You are considered proficient with your battlefist, and it is treated as if it were a both a natural and a manufactured weapon.

At 2nd level, your battlefist becomes a magic weapon and gains a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus improves by 1 at 5th level and again at 9th level. A battlefist with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus can be further enhanced or improved with Craft Magic Arms and Armor just as if it were a magic weapon. (hence the suggested crafting ability.

As for "being supported" the enhancement line itself should be designed to do that.



It's a enhancement , doesn't need to be a toggle since you don't need to take it.

I'm not exactly sure how a battlefist might come into play, but you won't be able to make something craftable or not through enhancements. Imagine I upgraded my arm enough to craft on a vampirism shard, then I reset my enhancements. It's not going to un-craft my arm all the sudden.

If they do set up a battle fist, maybe you can "craft" specialties into your fist through selectable enhancements. Maybe you could choose from five different options on two different selectors. Maybe five passive, and you can choose one, and five actives, and you can choose one. Everything has to be touch range, so it doesn't feel like wearing two runearms.

Random examples (not suggestions. just spit ballin' here)
Active) Branding iron - Permanent stacking fire weakness on target touch attack
Passive) Unstable Coolant - Percent chance freeze guard. 5% freeze target upon being hit, fort save
Active) Rocket punch - Melee Stun attack, but with reflex save instead of fort
Passive) Electric Gauntlet - Adds a lesser lightning strike attack to metal weapons (5% chance to do caster level d 4 shock damage on hit)
Passive) Grounding Harnesses - 20% Lightning Absorbtion
Active) Powered Grapple - Holds an opponent in place. Looks and acts just like Hold Person spell, but with a fort save, and it's a touch-range attack.
Passive) Force Deflection - 50% chance to deflect magic missiles and force missiles.

HatsuharuZ
09-13-2014, 01:14 AM
A random thought, I have been pondering an alchemist tree / epic destiny theme someday, with tons of ways to make consumables and like worthwhile...I recall a pen and paper play by post game that I DMed a few years ago, where an artificer would literally burn up a quarter or more of a wand to make particularly effective rounds for the party...

Two issues with consumable items:

1) Players already have options for increasing spell points and decreasing costs (such as SLAs), that they don't need any *offensive* consumable items. With more spell points, the loss of the vancian magic system, the advent of spellpower, plus the ability to use multiple metamagic feats on spells, who needs wands of fireball in combat? In PnP, the number of spells slots you had was usually the number of spells you could cast per day, or something close to that number. Now that we don't have that anymore, offensive wands have lost their niche.

2) Wands and such tend to have very low caster levels, and thus very low DCs, which can't be increased very much at all. Just today my sorcerer got a caster level 8 wand of lightning from a level 16 quest. Who would need or want this?

Hiponic
09-13-2014, 03:17 AM
As far as a Thrid Tree Harper did alot for me.. Though most are surprised I enjoyed it.
Where I feel arti's need to most help is in Epics.. We dominate Heroics already.

Artificers need a ED
Something's it might include?

Rune Arm DC's: EE Your run arm blast get's saved every shot.. Think the DC is 10+Int+Charge Tier when fired?
Rune Arm Spell Power: Since NOBODY really knows what affects rune arm power.. maybe we should figure this out?
Int/Dex/Wis: Int and Dex of course.. But I've found it's really easy to get low on wisdom and botch a Spot check sometime
Trapping: Shadow dancer is cool and all but its not a Arti tree.. Its just all we got.
EVASION or something?: YES YES! The Arti ED Should Include Evasion at the least.. Or something that can give us a CHANCE in EE to get past the trap.
We are trappers..

think of more later.

Failedlegend
09-13-2014, 07:07 AM
I'm not exactly sure how a battlefist might come into play, but you won't be able to make something craftable or not through enhancements. Imagine I upgraded my arm enough to craft on a vampirism shard, then I reset my enhancements. It's not going to un-craft my arm all the sudden.

If they do set up a battle fist, maybe you can "craft" specialties into your fist through selectable enhancements. Maybe you could choose from five different options on two different selectors. Maybe five passive, and you can choose one, and five actives, and you can choose one. Everything has to be touch range, so it doesn't feel like wearing two runearms.

Random examples (not suggestions. just spit ballin' here)
Active) Branding iron - Permanent stacking fire weakness on target touch attack
Passive) Unstable Coolant - Percent chance freeze guard. 5% freeze target upon being hit, fort save
Active) Rocket punch - Melee Stun attack, but with reflex save instead of fort
Passive) Electric Gauntlet - Adds a lesser lightning strike attack to metal weapons (5% chance to do caster level d 4 shock damage on hit)
Passive) Grounding Harnesses - 20% Lightning Absorbtion
Active) Powered Grapple - Holds an opponent in place. Looks and acts just like Hold Person spell, but with a fort save, and it's a touch-range attack.
Passive) Force Deflection - 50% chance to deflect magic missiles and force missiles.

I see what you are saying and totally agree, it will all be in how they word the flavour text/enhancement titles

I love rocket punch, definitely needs a tiny burning hands effect coming out of your elbow area on use



Two issues with consumable items:

1) Players already have options for increasing spell points and decreasing costs (such as SLAs), that they don't need any *offensive* consumable items. With more spell points, the loss of the vancian magic system, the advent of spellpower, plus the ability to use multiple metamagic feats on spells, who needs wands of fireball in combat? In PnP, the number of spells slots you had was usually the number of spells you could cast per day, or something close to that number. Now that we don't have that anymore, offensive wands have lost their niche.

2) Wands and such tend to have very low caster levels, and thus very low DCs, which can't be increased very much at all. Just today my sorcerer got a caster level 8 wand of lightning from a level 16 quest. Who would need or want this?

I gotta say that I LOVE the healing grenades and would love to see some of that stuff in renegade mastermaker

Thayion516
09-13-2014, 10:20 PM
I would love 3 streamlined trees for arty that actually bring variety and playability to the table.

Tree 1. Melee tree. Focus on crossbows. Melee single weapon combat with BS and DA. Moderate tier 2 ability for Trapping/search to bridge gap. Something neat at teir 4 like Tactical Detonation counts +DC per arty level also. Endless Fusillade +1/2/3 seconds would be another great one. One of the t5 can be War Machine: something like +5% all damage +10PR/MR, -10% movement.

Tree 2. Magic and Rune arm tree. Give a teir 2 +5/10/15 repair amp. Then all the magic force/ electrical goodies. Give mods to rune arms. Dunno what else could go here that would fit. Im not the best as a magic user!

Tree 3. Fleshy and Dog tree. Make sure to put a couple of flesh ability in teir 2 and 3 to give access easier to encourage diversity. Huge dog buffs! And actually classify buffs as a size bonus (dog actually gets a little bigger!) to abilities. Teir 5 could have ability for dog called Juggernaut: bad ass dog. Be aware tho. The problem with dogs are they die easily. Will have to make him MUCH tougher. I would be ok with dog that performed like a straight fighter of equal level.

Scrabbler
09-13-2014, 10:52 PM
FYI, the designer plan for the 3rd Artificer tree was for it to be either Renegade Mastermaker or Spellcarved Soldier, depending upon whether your race was a Construct or not. Naturally those trees would share at least 20% enhancements in common...

Silverleafeon
09-14-2014, 01:09 AM
FYI, the designer plan for the 3rd Artificer tree was for it to be either Renegade Mastermaker or Spellcarved Soldier, depending upon whether your race was a Construct or not. Naturally those trees would share at least 20% enhancements in common...

Hmm...we will have to goggle/research those ideas...

Silverleafeon
09-14-2014, 01:12 AM
As far as a Thrid Tree Harper did alot for me.. Though most are surprised I enjoyed it.
Where I feel arti's need to most help is in Epics.. We dominate Heroics already.

Artificers need a ED
Something's it might include?

Rune Arm DC's: EE Your run arm blast get's saved every shot.. Think the DC is 10+Int+Charge Tier when fired?
Rune Arm Spell Power: Since NOBODY really knows what affects rune arm power.. maybe we should figure this out?
Int/Dex/Wis: Int and Dex of course.. But I've found it's really easy to get low on wisdom and botch a Spot check sometime
Trapping: Shadow dancer is cool and all but its not a Arti tree.. Its just all we got.
EVASION or something?: YES YES! The Arti ED Should Include Evasion at the least.. Or something that can give us a CHANCE in EE to get past the trap.
We are trappers..

think of more later.

Thanks and great!


I see what you are saying and totally agree, it will all be in how they word the flavour text/enhancement titles

I love rocket punch, definitely needs a tiny burning hands effect coming out of your elbow area on use




I gotta say that I LOVE the healing grenades and would love to see some of that stuff in renegade mastermaker

Artificers do have some unique item features.

It is unlikely that we could create a tree for artificers and warlocks to share, but I'll be watching in case that possibility comes up.
Unlikely, but maybe for a fourth tree later on?

HatsuharuZ
09-14-2014, 02:01 AM
A crazy idea:

How about an enhancement that lets the artificer use one of his skills to empower his wand/item/runearm damage using a skill? Either UMD or Spellcraft would be most appropriate.

Scrabbler
09-14-2014, 02:14 AM
How about an enhancement that lets the artificer use one of his skills to empower his wand/item/runearm damage using a skill? Either UMD or Spellcraft would be most appropriate.
In addition to the Spellcraft skill that runearms already apply?

Thayion516
09-14-2014, 05:12 AM
FYI, the designer plan for the 3rd Artificer tree was for it to be either Renegade Mastermaker or Spellcarved Soldier, depending upon whether your race was a Construct or not. Naturally those trees would share at least 20% enhancements in common...

I got no idea what that is.... lol

zerit2002
09-14-2014, 07:49 AM
1) enhancement line that improves upon the benefits of the "construct essence" feat, and has the option of giving some kind of passive improvement to warforged characters.


I haven't read the whole thread.
Just wanted to express my support for the idea of an enhancement line that improves upon the benefits of the construct essence feat.

I want to play a cyborg! :D
But I also want him to be able to repair himself properly... 50% healing from Repair spells is rubbish :(

HatsuharuZ
09-14-2014, 09:06 AM
In addition to the Spellcraft skill that runearms already apply?

*shrugs*

Well, it's not like runearms get full benefit from spellpower anyways.

Singular
09-14-2014, 06:34 PM
*shrugs*

Well, it's not like runearms get full benefit from spellpower anyways.

Poor, sad rune arms :(

Singular
09-14-2014, 06:39 PM
Does anyone else want to see hand crossbows put into the game?

Aren't they covered by 'light crossbow'? If not, what would the advantages be to using one?

(I thought the slaver's hand crossbow was one...but maybe I'm mistaken)


As far as a Thrid Tree Harper did alot for me.. Though most are surprised I enjoyed it.
Where I feel arti's need to most help is in Epics.. We dominate Heroics already.

Artificers need a ED
Something's it might include?

Rune Arm DC's: EE Your run arm blast get's saved every shot.. Think the DC is 10+Int+Charge Tier when fired?
Rune Arm Spell Power: Since NOBODY really knows what affects rune arm power.. maybe we should figure this out?
Int/Dex/Wis: Int and Dex of course.. But I've found it's really easy to get low on wisdom and botch a Spot check sometime
Trapping: Shadow dancer is cool and all but its not a Arti tree.. Its just all we got.
EVASION or something?: YES YES! The Arti ED Should Include Evasion at the least.. Or something that can give us a CHANCE in EE to get past the trap.
We are trappers..

think of more later.

Great comments! Totally agree.

I might be wrong, but I believe that rune arms under lvl 20 to use 50% spell power and those over lvl 20 to use 80% spell power. At least that's how it seems to me.

DrWily
09-14-2014, 08:24 PM
Aren't they covered by 'light crossbow'? If not, what would the advantages be to using one?

(I thought the slaver's hand crossbow was one...but maybe I'm mistaken)

Yeah, Slaver's is a L. Repeater I think.

And for using a Hand Crossbow, the book describes it being able to be fired 1 handed, so I'd like to see it be a cross between a L. Crossbow and a Thrown Weapon, being able to have something like Celestia in your offhand.

HatsuharuZ
09-14-2014, 09:57 PM
I feel that artificers should get more spellpower with items. How about letting add their UMD or spellcraft mod to their item spellpower?

Rakuda13
09-16-2014, 08:15 AM
Do this %100 agree with it


I gave a proposal on ML forums last year for a 3 tree concept once we saw the other two. I begged Steelstar to put Rune arms in the caster tree, make more range/melee in the BE tree, and have a construct tree with the dog enhancements. It has been too long to remember the full idea. I also argued that nothing about Arty anywhere meant they should only get bonuses to bastard/dwarf axe but lost. Anyway I will try to remember my thoughts.

BE:
Change left side to include all one handed weapons.
Move all rune arm enhancements to Arcanotech.
Move wrack and the other construct one to new construct tree.
Add in melee and ranged enhancements. Lots of options that can be copied from other trees.
Add force/electric and maybe fire weapon buffs like EK or swash..

Arcanotech:
Move dog enhancements to construct tree.
Replace dog with rune arm enhancements.
Add + rune arm dc possibly one per core.

Construct:
Construct essence increased to 100%. Become full construct with immunities as tier V or capstone.
+ Repair spell power.
Dog enhancements.
Wrack enhancements.
Repair Amp.

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 07:14 AM
Lots of great feedback here, and that is something the Devs can benefit from later on {if and when they do this lost tree}.

Reading happily and waiting a little longer before we start throwing up a few sample trees.

THANKS ALL, doing great.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 07:32 AM
Ok, the Lost Trees of Favored Soul, Druid, and Acolyte of the Skin are looking in fairly good shape.
Now to tackle this double deal.

Please feel free to be honest as my round 1 will probably be rather flawed, but I listen to others, and I bet we can get something worthwhile after some rounds.

THANKS!

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 07:56 AM
Ok, first issue is can we afford to add another ED to the Arcane Sphere?


Right now we have 3 ED in each sphere, and each ED has 3 earnable past life toggles along with a passive advantage.

Adding one to the Arcane Sphere would in fact set a precedent of adding another to Primal, Divine, and Martial.

Since we have a "possible new class that benefits from heavy armor" that might possibly be coming someday over the rainbow tm that could include a new Martial Sphere addition.

A new toggle would be an option that would require some creativity but would not include more power creep.

However with that new toggle would come 3 more stacks of passive bonuses in Arcane, possibly Martial, then likely Divine and Primal?

So, can afford the power creep of plus three stacks of:



Passive Bonus: +1% Absorption of Acid, Cold, Electric, and Fire damage.


Passive Bonus: +2 AC per stack of this Past Life and +1 AC per ten character levels.


Passive Bonus: +3 PRR per stack of this Past Life.


Passive Bonus: +3 maximum HP and +4 per ten character levels.




Hmm...

Perhaps the viewpoint of someone who has earned the maximum already would help ~ personally I found the more epic past life feats that I gained, the more Tank like my Fawngate became. Players were more likely to look to me to fill in the odd job or the tank position regardless of my build. Since I like to lead raids a lot, it helps to be flexable. I die less, but in the end, I don't feel overpowerful as much as last lady standing.

So, I think maybe we could add a fourth to the Arcane Sphere.



On the other hand, creating a new Planar Sphere could provide a bridge between the other Spheres. I am not sure how well that would work as only having one ED in a bridge Sphere would enable easy bridging at first, but less easy later on. We almost need three ED to go into a new Planar Sphere to do it right.

If the Devs wanted less power creep from past lives, the suggested new planar passive:
"Passive Bonus: +3 maximum SP and +4 per ten character levels." would make power creep even less than adding to existing Sphere.

One could use multi-selection planar bonuses in the EDs giving a theme and creativity ready made, that has some advantages.


So both approaches have disadvantages and advantage.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 08:03 AM
Ok wherever it goes, Planar or Arcane only about 1~3 features will be affect and likely the multi-selections could be in either tree without the general public caring.

So, will listen and deal with that later on.

We need an Artificer ED and I will toss out a round 1 of it too.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 08:19 AM
Now we face another problem ~ caster levels.

ED were created with a limitation of granting +5~6 caster levels yet we now have 28 character levels and someday we will have 30 character levels (it is not if but when will this happen). This does affect some spells (sun beam for example) and all spell pen checks, and as Monsters advance our caster levels will not.

Some have suggested tying caster levels with character levels, or as I have suggested raising the Ed levels and making the tree function like heroic trees.

Either way, we are going to face a break down point when we raise the level cap involving caster levels.


Since Divine Crusader was the last ED created and its Obvious Magistar was one of the first, I will ignore Magistar wording and copy and past from Divine Crusader hoping the Devs have already taken this into account.



Just Cause : Passive Bonus: You gain Cleric, Favored Soul, and Paladin Caster Levels equal in your level in Divine Crusader. Gain +25 sp, +10 hp, and your Base Attack Bonus is equal to your total Character Level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements

Since Artificers cast arcane spells, we will lump the arcane classes into it as such:

{insert cool title here : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in {insert cool ED name here. Gain +25 sp, +10 hp, and {insert cool new ability here}.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements


There problem solved for now, whatever Sphere it goes into.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 10:19 AM
Post #4 has one round of the Artificer Epic Destiny.

You will find it similar to Shirdai, yet quite different than Shirdai in ways that benefit artificer.


Perhaps it is better to address the epic destiny first, as it seems to be covering a far amount of Artificer issues....


Suggestions, advice, opinions, debates, changes are very welcome.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP, I CANNOT DO THIS WITHOUT YOU!



PS I am sure someone will bring up why Runes of the Gods stance does not affect spells. Then someone else will bring up magic missle/chain missle/etc... It was a choice of limiting the stance to activating once per second or limiting the stance to not affecting spells; I chose the later to help improved precise shot work better.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 10:38 AM
*shrugs*

Well, it's not like runearms get full benefit from spellpower anyways.

What is the amount applied and maybe we can adjust it inside our artificier ED tree?

Thanks

Scrabbler
09-19-2014, 10:58 AM
Post #4 has one round of the Artificer Epic Destiny.
Having a copy of Tea with the Queen is too close to Shiradi. And it makes a lot less sense in the setting, because Lord of Blades is a physical person who lives in a campsite in the countryside, not a fuzzy phantom being from another dimension. The way to visit him is to walk / ride / fly over there, not vanish through a portal. He also doesn't live somewhere that time flows differently.


Here are two things needed by top tiers of an Artificer ED: Body Of War, an effect to temporarily turn you into a Warforged Titan. Similar to Nature's Avatar form, except attack speed isn't reduced (so the +damage doesn't have to be as extreme). You're not as big as some enemy WFTs found around the game; less than twice as tall as a regular player.
Turbine, a more powerful version of Blade Barrier. Unlike Blade Barrier, it also causes damage (but not as much) to enemies who stay standing in it. However, you can't keep it up for as long.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 11:03 AM
GREAT STUFF, thanks will put that in round two epic moment!

HatsuharuZ
09-19-2014, 11:27 AM
What is the amount applied and maybe we can adjust it inside our artificier ED tree?

Thanks

I can't recall, but it was around the time the devs introduced the word "spellpower" to the game, and the devs seemed to think that under the new system, certain SLAs and other abilities were going to be too powerful, so they gave them, including rune arms, a "reduced benefit from spellpower".

Certon
09-19-2014, 11:56 AM
I think this needs something.

I can't put my finger on it exactly, so I'll make a general power to explain.

Toggle: Improving the Formula
When toggled, any potion you consume is cast at your artificer level or the level of the potion, whichever is greater. Also, if the potion gives a bonus, this bonus is considered an Alchemical Bonus instead of its regular type.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 12:15 PM
I think this needs something.

I can't put my finger on it exactly, so I'll make a general power to explain.

Toggle: Improving the Formula
When toggled, any potion you consume is cast at your artificer level or the level of the potion, whichever is greater. Also, if the potion gives a bonus, this bonus is considered an Alchemical Bonus instead of its regular type.

Very nice.

Silverleafeon
09-19-2014, 12:16 PM
I can't recall, but it was around the time the devs introduced the word "spellpower" to the game, and the devs seemed to think that under the new system, certain SLAs and other abilities were going to be too powerful, so they gave them, including rune arms, a "reduced benefit from spellpower".

Half is typical when something is reduced, hmmm...researched needed here to verify.
Hmm..Lamania is still open...a +20 and I can look it over...

Silverleafeon
09-20-2014, 08:48 AM
Round 2 is up:

Changes:

Edited the Innates to make them easier to read.


Considered replacing this with something else but don't know what to replace it with so left it in:

Craftmaster The Alchemist gains an additional +2 stacking bonus to all crafting skills.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements



Added to tier 4, this universal twistable potion boost as fighters and barbarians badly need it:

Improving the Formula Any potion you consume is cast at a stacking +10 caster level of the current level of the potion.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements



Added to tier 6 in Fuzzy Math forms atm:

Turbine a more powerful version of Blade Barrier. Unlike Blade Barrier, it also causes damage (but not as much) to enemies who stay standing in it. However, you can't keep it up for as long.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Body Of War Fuzzy Math {Sev and Varg can sort it out} ~ an effect to temporarily turn you into a Warforged Titan. Similar to Nature's Avatar form, except attack speed isn't reduced (so the +damage doesn't have to be as extreme). You're not as big as some enemy WFTs found around the game; less than twice as tall as a regular player.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Reduced Lord of the Blades Teachings II : from 4 down to 3 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Lord of the Blades Teachings I

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 08:53 AM
I am going to rewrite that twistable potions buff to something like:

Improving the Formula
Any potion you consume is cast at your artificer level or the level of the potion +X, whichever is greater.


That way artificer get something very nice, and its a reasonable buff for non artificers.

Question is how high can X be before its unacceptable?

3~8ish maybe?

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 10:25 AM
I guess its time to start throwing down some sample heroic trees and see what looks good and what does not.

Will start working on it, and feel free to be honest.

I'll need to read the entire thread to try to get a feeling of what is most wanted.

I think we can agree a column buffing the Arty dog would be helpful.
Something not unlike the column found in the Druid's Gatekeeper tree.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 10:50 AM
1) Caltrops. Small slow effect and piercing damage with no save in an area. Oozes and incorporeal targets are immune to this.

3) Blades: Like the blades found in Shroud and Shavarath, this would make a great spell.

I might could add these two to the Alchemist ED somewhere, the latters seems like good fit for the "better blade barrier" tier 6

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 10:54 AM
Love the turret spell at lower levels. Maybe add some USEFUL and powerful turrets as SLAs for high levels. Acid spewing. Lightening, Disintegrating. Maybe a jackhammer that has an earthquake effect.

Good stuff will try to fit it in.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:01 AM
Both great comments. Losing a force buffed boulder toss cost pure arties 10-15% of their dps output. If/when an artie ED is made, we should have something artificer-like to replace BT. I'm all for a tossed explosive or a single target infusion - the infusions rock, they're a purely artificer thing. So something along those lines, like a toss molotov cocktail bomb, or a force boulder toss, or perhaps a super charged rune arm blast.

Interesting, will have to ponder possibilities.



In fact...an artie ED should have:

- buffs to xbow, bastard sword and dwarven axe
- buffs to rune arm damage
- buffs to artie spells (possibly including an 'energy burst' effect artie style)
- buffs to spell points, max level, and DCs (both rune arm and spell)
- poss. buffs to pets

In fact, I think it would be pretty easy for the Devs to make an artie ED. All EDs have 2 or 3 'streams' in that you can go one way or another. It's pretty clear that an artie ED would have you chose between melee/ranged on one side while having infusion on other other..

Thanks, I'll try to remember these things.
I did provide an alternative to Prism, worked on some of the problems of rune arms, gave sp and caster levels.

I did not buff pets, buff rune arm spell power, provide melee options,

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:03 AM
Why not have both? The Devs did that with bards, and the results were great~

Ok, we will do a full focus on Artificers.

What ED could they have.

What needs shifting/fixing in the existing trees.

What the new tree should be.

Request and suggestions for the Dog Enhancements to be greatly upgraded.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:14 AM
As far as a Thrid Tree Harper did alot for me.. Though most are surprised I enjoyed it.
Where I feel arti's need to most help is in Epics.. We dominate Heroics already.

Artificers need a ED
Something's it might include?

Thanks will look at this list closely.



Rune Arm DC's: EE Your run arm blast get's saved every shot.. Think the DC is 10+Int+Charge Tier when fired?

Considering Spellcasters can obtain 10 + ability score + 9 that places Artificiers in the Bard category of "needs buffing" to compete.

If a typical charge tier is say 4~5 then you are 4~5 shy of average right off the bat.
We could probably add +1 rune arm DC to almost every Innate in Alchemist and not be overpowered.
That would be easily justified as I justified the Bardic Spell Singer buffs with many, many posts urging such.



Rune Arm Spell Power: Since NOBODY really knows what affects rune arm power.. maybe we should figure this out?

+20 heart in Lamania atm, will reincarnate Fawngate today, not sure if I can figure it out, but it is always grand to play what you are working on.


Int/Dex/Wis: Int and Dex of course.. But I've found it's really easy to get low on wisdom and botch a Spot check sometime
Trapping: Shadow dancer is cool and all but its not a Arti tree.. Its just all we got.

Ok, I wondered what the third ability should be, do we have a second for putting the ED as Int/Dex/Wis?


EVASION or something?: YES YES! The Arti ED Should Include Evasion at the least.. Or something that can give us a CHANCE in EE to get past the trap.
We are trappers..

Ok, I will look for tier 5 or Innate to place evasion.


think of more later.

ALL FEEDBACK IS WELCOME, AND GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Your enthusiasm might make the difference on how soon a fix will be considered.
The barbarians are rejoicing atm...

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:16 AM
If they do set up a battle fist, maybe you can "craft" specialties into your fist through selectable enhancements. Maybe you could choose from five different options on two different selectors. Maybe five passive, and you can choose one, and five actives, and you can choose one. Everything has to be touch range, so it doesn't feel like wearing two runearms.

Random examples (not suggestions. just spit ballin' here)
Active) Branding iron - Permanent stacking fire weakness on target touch attack
Passive) Unstable Coolant - Percent chance freeze guard. 5% freeze target upon being hit, fort save
Active) Rocket punch - Melee Stun attack, but with reflex save instead of fort
Passive) Electric Gauntlet - Adds a lesser lightning strike attack to metal weapons (5% chance to do caster level d 4 shock damage on hit)
Passive) Grounding Harnesses - 20% Lightning Absorbtion
Active) Powered Grapple - Holds an opponent in place. Looks and acts just like Hold Person spell, but with a fort save, and it's a touch-range attack.
Passive) Force Deflection - 50% chance to deflect magic missiles and force missiles.

Interesting idea, thank you!

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:19 AM
I haven't read the whole thread.
Just wanted to express my support for the idea of an enhancement line that improves upon the benefits of the construct essence feat.

I want to play a cyborg! :D
But I also want him to be able to repair himself properly... 50% healing from Repair spells is rubbish :(

I agree, 50% is not enough to compete with an artificers buffed heal scrolls.


Also mentioned elsewhere, an artificer is not the type of class that weapon's bond works well for.
Something like Barbarian would work much better.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:20 AM
I might be wrong, but I believe that rune arms under lvl 20 to use 50% spell power and those over lvl 20 to use 80% spell power. At least that's how it seems to me.

Thanks.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 11:51 AM
Question:

Has anyone left Maximized turned on and noticed any effect on your runearm damage?

It has been noted leaving Maximized turned on is supposed to increase Colors of the Queen.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 07:51 PM
Toying with the idea of a mechical body type tree which was been mentioned already.
Pulling and improving the pet bonuses into here, and building upon the Construct Essence feat and other things mentioned already.

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 07:54 PM
Not necessary like this, but this is going front and center for a good overview and lets see what we can do...



Something that furthers construct essences idea/theming with a bunch of unqiue abilities




The two tree's we already have cover weapon and casting so the third one should be a utility/support tree




I'd like to see some focus on the construct essence feat with the artificer using his magitech to make himself better...a cyborg essentially...the main focus would be fleshies but don't forget Warforged




Definitely take some ideas from the Renegade Master Maker, Ultimate Gadgeteer, Gnome Artificer, Combat Trapsmith, Tech Smith prestige classes, but also a good source of would actually be the WoW crafting school engineering, lots of crazy inventions with chances of failure (ie. Defibrillator paddles, 2 minute cooldown 50% chance to revive target with 50% health)

I'd also say kill the construct essence feat and make it the core 1 for "Master Maker"

You could also take the Rune arm boosts out of Arcanotech to make room for more spell castery stuff, actually why your at it, take all the Dog boosting abilities and stick them in the dogs enhancement tree whilst simultaneously updating the dogs enhancements to the new style

This is what I have so far

Core 1 Construct Essence - Gain 50% healing from Repair spells but suffer a -25% penalty to positive energy healing. In addition, you now take 50% damage from rust effects. This healing increase by 10% for every Core ability (penalty remains at -25%), Gain Living construct type (as well as your current) +1 Repair Spellpower per pt. spent in tree.

Core 3 ???

Core 6 ???

Core 12 A "repair" version of True Rez (SLA)

Core 15 Auto-Repair Systems

Core 18 ???

Core 20 +40 Repair Amp (for a total of 150%) (work in some sort of "giant mech mode")


Possible Abilities inside Tree

Battle Fist - This would probably be a full line from Tier 1 all the way to tier 5 basically an SWF version of Unarmed combat (rune arm in other hand) this counts as a light bludgeoning weapon AND unarmed (in PnP it was considered natural AND manufactured weapon making it special) for any effects such as improved weapon finesse. The "Arm" can be improved using Cannith Crafting (bigger enchantments per tier)

Note: Possibly make this a multi-selector for a Heavy OR Light Battlefist with the former being 1d8 base but is not finessable the latter being 1d6

Tier 1 - Increases Unarmed Damage to 1d6, Attacks considered Mithral (1d8 & Adamantine if Heavy)
Tier 2 - +0.5w, +X Craftable
Tier 3 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, +1 Crit Range (19-20)
Tier 4 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, +1 Crit Threat (x3)
Tier 5 - +0.5w, +X Craftable, Some special battlefist unique attack...Rocket uppercut :P (+3{w} prone & stunned on failed save uses int for DC, balance check to get back up)


Master Crafter - various bonuses to crafting

Various Warforged traits, some even slightly better (due to newer tech)

Increased Fort (can get up 125% in total)

Increased PRR, MRR/MRR Cap and bonus HP

A couple cool effects that make use of the mech fist....thinking maybe an attack that immobilizes the target (ie. You grab the target with your fist keeping it from moving and putting it in a "helpless" state

+Str, Con and/or Int

"Palm Shot" equipping a x-bow now causes you to fire bolts out of your battle fist causing it to become a ranged attack, otherwise it functions as battle fist normally does. (anything that effects crossbows and/or battlefists affects this attack unless it's specific to melee)

Various "Mass" repairs

Multi-selector allowing choice of Composite, Mithral or Adamantine Plating (as WF Feats) and allows use of docents....gains similar MRR and dodge/evasion restrictions due to "Armor Up"

Inscribed Armor - requires Metal Plating - removes ASF penalty from plating

Bonuses to Will and Fort possibly with no fail on a 1 at Tier 5 (like +2/3/6 Will/Fort than Rank = 3 no fail on a 1)

An ability using your UMD score called "Intimidating Display" where you basically flare up your new tech showing of the arcane lines,etc. a failed save will cause fear-like effect, a succesful save leaves them shaken.

"Imbued Rune arm" - You have become one with your rune arm causing it to automatically fire when it hits max charge and increasing its DC by X




I think the "Planar" Sphere would be a good place for EDs that don't fit into the other sphere's and Arty would fit nicely into Arcane.

Shrimpboy
09-21-2014, 09:16 PM
Just some ideas...

ED: Needs a Boulder Toss Replacement and Force Spec Energy Burst kind of thing.
Tier 1: 3/6/10d100 force/untyped damage. Affected by force spellpower. No idea what visual effect, but maybe a bazooka kind of thing? Rune arm overload? Something artificer-y. Cooldown 20 Seconds.
Tier 4: Detonate Armor: You get a -10 penalty to AC for 10 seconds but deal 1d15+15 Untyped damage per character level in a burst centered around you. All enemies affected must make a DC 15+Character Level+Int Mod reflex check to avoid being knocked prone. Successful saves negate the knockdown effect and take half damage. Cooldown 30 seconds
Tier 5: The WF Titan idea could implement a Rune Arm based system when transformed to represen the arm asplosions they get. Because then all classes can get a taste of the arty goodness they are missing out on and it fits the vibe. :)
Cores: I feel the cores shouldn't have rune arm specific things in it because the cores for all the other EDs are generally useful to all classes. Have the first core give the rune arm feat or move the rune arm bonuses to the actual tree. Just my opinion.

Enhancements:
I feel all the trees need a revamp... Battle Engineer could borrow plenty of ideas from Harper Tree like Know the Angles in exchange for the rune arm enhancements. Arcanotech needs bonuses to Evo DC similar to the way Spellsinger gets low tier bonuses to Evo or Enchant DC so our casting could stay competitive. Remove the doggie buffs in exchange for the rune arm enhancements. I love the idea of the master maker tree. The benefits would need to be multiselectors for WF vs Fleshy. Like Fleshies would get the ability to wear docents while WF can get a free body feat or something along those lines. Throw the new doggie buffs into this tree and have this focus on repair amp, repair SLAs, and Doggie.

These are my opinions and feel free to change them or neglect them. :)

Silverleafeon
09-21-2014, 10:08 PM
Just some ideas...

These are my opinions and feel free to change them or neglect them. :)

They are cherished, thank you.
And so it begins...woot!

Silverleafeon
09-22-2014, 10:48 AM
Looking at the epic destinies I see, a long list of restricted class feats being granted thru epic destiny options shown below, therefore I conclude that the Alchemist ED could offer the Rune arm feat somewhere (probably inside the innates to prevent twisting?)

Also, as already suggested, this ED could use evasion somewhere that is not twistable.



Fanaticism : Passive Bonus: You gain the Smite Evil feat. While you are Unbreakable, weapons you equip gain True Law if you are Lawful, and True Chaos if you are Chaotic, dealing 1d6 damage of that alignment to enemies of different alignments.


Healing Hands : Passive Bonus: You gain the Lay On Hands feat. You gain +25 positive spellpower.


Leap of Faith : Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 seconds, 10 sp) Leap through air (like leap of faith). Costs 10 sp, recharges at a rate of 15 seconds in private areas and 3 seconds in public areas. If you already possess this ability, it now recharges at a rate of 1 every 12 seconds in private areas.


Bane of Undeath : Passive Bonus: You gain the Turn Undead feat. Weapons you equip gain undead bane (+2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 damage against undead).


Fatesinger's Repertoire : For every level of Fatesinger, gain 2 Songs, +3 sonic resistance and 25 Spell Points. If you didn't have Inspire Courage gain that feat.


Inner Focus : Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 mins) Instantly restore 25-125 Ki. Passive Bonus: You gain +10 maximum ki and +1 stacking spell resistance, and an additional +10 maximum ki and +1 stacking spell resistance for each level of Grandmaster of Flowers you have (so that should be +60ki, +6 SR).


Centered Mind : Passive Bonus: Grants the Slippery Mind feat, allowing an extra saving throw versus enchantments. Also gain +1 to the DC of your tactical feats


Action Boost Damage : Active Ability: (Cooldown 20 seconds (30 if you twist it)) Activate to gain a +[20/25/30]% Action Boost bonus to weapon damage for 20 seconds (This epic ability cannot be taken if you have Action Boost Damage as a class enhancement, and it shares a cooldown with all other action boosts).


Shadow Mastery : Passive Bonus: You now have Evasion. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds


Nature's Fury / Natural Evasion : Passive (Multiple Enhancement Selector) Gain +1 critical damage multiplier on a roll of 19-20, or Evasion, while in animal form, unarmed, or two-weapon fighting.

Singular
09-22-2014, 07:09 PM
They are cherished, thank you.
And so it begins...woot!

Ok, so I copied this from Fury of the Wild and tried to make a mixed spell casting – ranged destiny, using some of the ideas above.

Innate abilities
Granted automatically as you level up in the destiny.
Passive Portion: You gain all of the following:
+1 damage per level of Artificer ED including this one (up to +6 total at level 5).
+1 Artificer, Sorcerer, Wizard or Bard caster level per level of Artificer ED not including this one (up to +5 total at level 5).
Active Portion: (Cooldown 5 second): You now have 2 Analytical Strikes: +[2] weapon dice and +2 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0

No requirements
Bodily Focus I : (Passive) Bonus: gain +25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical Strike and it moves up to +[3] weapon dice and +4 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8

Bodily Focus II: (Passive) Gain an additional 25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it moves up to +[4] weapon dice and +6 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it moves up to +[5] weapon dice and +8 to critical hit on your next attack.
Additionally, you gain: (Cooldown: 120 seconds) Radiant Forcefield of 35% damage absorption for 20 seconds. [Edit: or decrease it back to 25 and make the duration twice as long as the spell or something, or put something else here – I’m having issues coming up with novel artificer actives]
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20
No requirements

Tier One
Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Artificer Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.

Rune Arm Focus I: Passive Bonus: Rune arms gains +1/2/3 DCs. [edit: tempted to write +1/3/6 here b/c, let’s be honest, rune arm DC’s are among the lowest dcs in the game]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Action Boost Focus I: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds) Nearby allies are raged gaining +[3/4/5] morale bonus to Strength and Intelligence, and suffer a -2 penalty to armor class. Nearby enemies take up to [10/20/30]d20 sonic damage. [3/4/5] uses per rest. Duration 3 minutes per use.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Weapon Boost : Active Ability: (Cooldown 60 seconds) For the next 9/12/15 seconds attacks that you make are at [+1/2/3] and have a chance to knock targets prone against a a DC 15+Character Level+Str/Int (whichever is higher) Mod reflex check.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Action Boost Focus: Passive Bonus: Your action boosts gain 3/6/10% greater effectiveness. [edit: this might be too powerful. I am trying to think of some kind of bonus to action boosts that does not exist in other EDs]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence: Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 0
No requirements

Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Rune Arm Focus II : Passive Bonus: Rune arms gain an increase of 10/20/30% to their spell power.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 4
No requirements

Unstoppable Mechanics : You tinker a bit with your pets and hirelings, adding bits and pieces to them. Passive Bonus to pets and hirelings: +1/2/4 to all stats, saves, to hit, damage and levels.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Unstable Workings: Passive Bonus: Your electric, sonic and force spells gain a 1/2/3% chance to critical [edit: too weak? Too powerful?]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Action Boost Focus II: Passive Bonus: Action boost durations are extended by 10/20/30%. [edit: trying to extend endless fullisade by a bit – max here is 2 seconds, which seems fair]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 4
No requirements

Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Force Infusion : (Active) You hurtle a potion of bottled force at a single target. Tier 1: 3/6/10d100 force/untyped damage. Costs 20 sp, affected by force spellpower. Cooldown 15 Seconds.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
Requires:

Finely Honed Weapons : Passive Bonus: +[1/2/3]d6 bleeding damage is added to your weapons. [Edit: this might be stupid. feel free to change it to something else]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

Infused Casting : Passive Bonus: 10/20/30 spell power to force, sonic or electric. [Edit: just going off the class – I feel that we, and it, should pay homage to the arties who prefer acid lines, too]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
No requirements

Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Detonation: (Active) You cause an explosion dealing 1d10+10 Untyped damage per character level in a burst centered around you. All enemies affected must make a DC 15+Character Level+Int Mod reflex check to avoid being knocked prone. Successful saves negate the knockdown effect and take half damage. Cooldown 20 seconds. [Edit: I changed Shrimpboy's a bit here b/c I thought making it more like tactical detonation would add flavor]
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 2 Progression: 12
No requirements

Considered Attacks: Bastard Sword or Dwarven Axe: Passive Bonus: +[3/6/9]% glancing blow damage. Crossbows: Passive +[3/6/9]% double shot. [Edit: no idea for swf]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 12
Requires:

Construct Mastery: Passive Bonus: Increases your susceptibility with repair spells by 10/20/30% and healing magic by 5/10/15%.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 12
Requires:

Electrifying Blow: Active: Your next attack is filled with shocking electricity, is at +[3] weapon dice and has a chance to paralyze the target.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Ultimate Infusion: Passive Bonus of +3 to evocation DCs. [edit – this looks powerful, but arties struggle greatly to have high DCs. Since it’s tier 5, it cannot be twisted.]
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Energized Rune Arm: Passive Bonus to rune arms: Attacks have a 1/3/7% chance to overwhelm the target’s nervous system and cause temporary paralysis.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 16
No requirements

Endless Thought: Your Analytical Strike now regenerate on vorpal strikes.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Endless Calm: Your Analytical Strikes cannot be used for weapons, but instead add 30 spell power for 20 seconds.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16

Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Unbridled Artificer ED Epic Moment : Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins). After 20 vorpal hits, this ability can be activated. If crossbow, then a 10 second endless fulisade with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit. If melee, then a 20 second +40% haste boost with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2s
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

__________________________________________________ _______

I tried to use some of the ideas above. I don't know if I like the epic moment above, but it's all I could come up with. I was trying to find something comparable to Fury of the Wild in terms of damage output without copying Fury. Hence, the focus on weapon dice multiplying instead of straight up damage multiplying. Both LD and Fury produce comparable damage output at max values - it would be nice if the artie ED was close to this, so that arties wouldn't feel they'd be better off in Fury.

I'm not sure if I got the right mix of rune arm/casting/attacking here. Please feel free to add what's missing. I apologize to Failedlegend, I didn't include the Battlefist stuff b/c I don't understand it. Please feel free to work it into the tree.

Singular
09-22-2014, 07:15 PM
Looking at the epic destinies I see, a long list of restricted class feats being granted thru epic destiny options shown below, therefore I conclude that the Alchemist ED could offer the Rune arm feat somewhere (probably inside the innates to prevent twisting?)

Also, as already suggested, this ED could use evasion somewhere that is not twistable.



Fanaticism : Passive Bonus: You gain the Smite Evil feat. While you are Unbreakable, weapons you equip gain True Law if you are Lawful, and True Chaos if you are Chaotic, dealing 1d6 damage of that alignment to enemies of different alignments.


Healing Hands : Passive Bonus: You gain the Lay On Hands feat. You gain +25 positive spellpower.


Leap of Faith : Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 seconds, 10 sp) Leap through air (like leap of faith). Costs 10 sp, recharges at a rate of 15 seconds in private areas and 3 seconds in public areas. If you already possess this ability, it now recharges at a rate of 1 every 12 seconds in private areas.


Bane of Undeath : Passive Bonus: You gain the Turn Undead feat. Weapons you equip gain undead bane (+2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 damage against undead).


Fatesinger's Repertoire : For every level of Fatesinger, gain 2 Songs, +3 sonic resistance and 25 Spell Points. If you didn't have Inspire Courage gain that feat.


Inner Focus : Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 mins) Instantly restore 25-125 Ki. Passive Bonus: You gain +10 maximum ki and +1 stacking spell resistance, and an additional +10 maximum ki and +1 stacking spell resistance for each level of Grandmaster of Flowers you have (so that should be +60ki, +6 SR).


Centered Mind : Passive Bonus: Grants the Slippery Mind feat, allowing an extra saving throw versus enchantments. Also gain +1 to the DC of your tactical feats


Action Boost Damage : Active Ability: (Cooldown 20 seconds (30 if you twist it)) Activate to gain a +[20/25/30]% Action Boost bonus to weapon damage for 20 seconds (This epic ability cannot be taken if you have Action Boost Damage as a class enhancement, and it shares a cooldown with all other action boosts).


Shadow Mastery : Passive Bonus: You now have Evasion. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds


Nature's Fury / Natural Evasion : Passive (Multiple Enhancement Selector) Gain +1 critical damage multiplier on a roll of 19-20, or Evasion, while in animal form, unarmed, or two-weapon fighting.




Good point. I wonder if it could, instead of what I posted above, something like:

-Gain the use rune arm feat if you don't have it. Every level in this destiny adds 10% spell power to the rune arm.

etc.

Shrimpboy
09-22-2014, 08:13 PM
Ok, so I copied this from Fury of the Wild and tried to make a mixed spell casting – ranged destiny, using some of the ideas above.

Innate abilities
Granted automatically as you level up in the destiny.
Passive Portion: You gain all of the following:
+1 damage per level of Artificer ED including this one (up to +6 total at level 5).
+1 Artificer caster level per level of Artificer ED not including this one (up to +5 total at level 5).
Active Portion: (Cooldown 5 second): You now have 2 Analytical Strikes: +[2] weapon dice and +2 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0

No requirements
Bodily Focus I : (Passive) Bonus: gain +25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical Strike and it moves up to +[3] weapon dice and +4 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8

Bodily Focus II: (Passive) Gain an additional 25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it moves up to +[4] weapon dice and +6 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it moves up to +[5] weapon dice and +8 to critical hit on your next attack.
Additionally, you gain: (Cooldown: 120 seconds) Radiant Forcefield of 35% damage absorption for 20 seconds. [Edit: or decrease it back to 25 and make the duration twice as long as the spell or something, or put something else here – I’m having issues coming up with novel artificer actives]
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20
No requirements

Tier One
Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Artificer Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.

Rune Arm Focus I: Passive Bonus: Rune arms gains +1/2/3 DCs. [edit: tempted to write +1/3/6 here b/c, let’s be honest, rune arm DC’s are among the lowest dcs in the game]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Action Boost Focus I: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds) Nearby allies are raged gaining +[3/4/5] morale bonus to Strength and Intelligence, and suffer a -2 penalty to armor class. Nearby enemies take up to [10/20/30]d20 sonic damage. [3/4/5] uses per rest. Duration 3 minutes per use.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Weapon Boost : Active Ability: (Cooldown 60 seconds) For the next 9/12/15 seconds attacks that you make are at [+1/2/3] and have a chance to knock targets prone against a a DC 15+Character Level+Str/Int (whichever is higher) Mod reflex check.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Action Boost Focus: Passive Bonus: Your action boosts gain 3/6/10% greater effectiveness. [edit: this might be too powerful. I am trying to think of some kind of bonus to action boosts that does not exist in other EDs]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence: Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 0
No requirements

Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Rune Arm Focus II : Passive Bonus: Rune arms gain an increase of 10/20/30% to their spell power.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 4
No requirements

Unstoppable Mechanics : You tinker a bit with your pets and hirelings, adding bits and pieces to them. Passive Bonus to pets and hirelings: +1/2/4 to all stats, saves, to hit, damage and levels.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Unstable Workings: Passive Bonus: Your electric, sonic and force spells gain a 1/2/3% chance to critical [edit: too weak? Too powerful?]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Action Boost Focus II: Passive Bonus: Action boost durations are extended by 10/20/30%. [edit: trying to extend endless fullisade by a bit – max here is 2 seconds, which seems fair]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 4
No requirements

Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Force Infusion : (Active) You hurtle a potion of bottled force at a single target. Tier 1: 3/6/10d100 force/untyped damage. Costs 20 sp, affected by force spellpower. Cooldown 15 Seconds.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
Requires:

Finely Honed Weapons : Passive Bonus: +[1/2/3]d6 bleeding damage is added to your weapons. [Edit: this might be stupid. feel free to change it to something else]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

Infused Casting : Passive Bonus: 10/20/30 spell power to force, sonic or electric. [Edit: just going off the class – I feel that we, and it, should pay homage to the arties who prefer acid lines, too]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
No requirements

Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Detonation: (Active) You cause an explosion dealing 1d10+10 Untyped damage per character level in a burst centered around you. All enemies affected must make a DC 15+Character Level+Int Mod reflex check to avoid being knocked prone. Successful saves negate the knockdown effect and take half damage. Cooldown 20 seconds. [Edit: I changed Shrimpboy's a bit here b/c I thought making it more like tactical detonation would add flavor]
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 2 Progression: 12
No requirements

Considered Attacks: Bastard Sword or Dwarven Axe: Passive Bonus: +[3/6/9]% glancing blow damage. Crossbows: Passive +[3/6/9]% double shot. [Edit: no idea for swf]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 12
Requires:

Construct Mastery: Passive Bonus: Increases your susceptibility with repair spells by 10/20/30% and healing magic by 5/10/15%.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 12
Requires:

Electrifying Blow: Active: Your next attack is filled with shocking electricity, is at +[3] weapon dice and has a chance to paralyze the target.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Ultimate Infusion: Passive Bonus of +3 to evocation DCs. [edit – this looks powerful, but arties struggle greatly to have high DCs. Since it’s tier 5, it cannot be twisted.]
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Energized Rune Arm: Passive Bonus to rune arms: Attacks have a 1/3/7% chance to overwhelm the target’s nervous system and cause temporary paralysis.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 16
No requirements
Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16

Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Unbridled Artificer ED Epic Moment : Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins). After 20 vorpal hits, this ability can be activated. If crossbow, then a 10 second endless fulisade with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit. If melee, then a 20 second +40% haste boost with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Strength/Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2s
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

__________________________________________________ _______

I tried to use some of the ideas above. I don't know if I like the epic moment above, but it's all I could come up with. I was trying to find something comparable to Fury of the Wild in terms of damage output without copying Fury. Hence, the focus on weapon dice multiplying instead of straight up damage multiplying. Both LD and Fury produce comparable damage output at max values - it would be nice if the artie ED was close to this, so that arties wouldn't feel they'd be better off in Fury.

I'm not sure if I got the right mix of rune arm/casting/attacking here. Please feel free to add what's missing. I apologize to Failedlegend, I didn't include the Battlefist stuff b/c I don't understand it. Please feel free to work it into the tree.

Love this tree, to be honest. If it came out, I would have a really tough time deciding on what to take!!! My only concern is I don't see anyway to regenerate any Analytical Strikes, which may be intentional to prevent broken-ness, which is understood. I would make the caster levels affect all arcane caster levels. Mixes caster damage and martial damage all in one. <3 Could even be a decent tree for Eldritch Knights or Bards or any other int based builds that come from the Harper Tree.

Singular
09-22-2014, 09:04 PM
Love this tree, to be honest. If it came out, I would have a really tough time deciding on what to take!!! My only concern is I don't see anyway to regenerate any Analytical Strikes, which may be intentional to prevent broken-ness, which is understood. I would make the caster levels affect all arcane caster levels. Mixes caster damage and martial damage all in one. <3 Could even be a decent tree for Eldritch Knights or Bards or any other int based builds that come from the Harper Tree.

Oh! I totally forgot to put that in. I'll go edit it in :)

Good point - I'll change the caster thing to all arcanes. Yeah, when I was thinking about it, I was thinking about EK too. But, shoot, forgot to add EK focused stuff in. Any suggestions?

Singular
09-22-2014, 09:16 PM
Love this tree, to be honest. If it came out, I would have a really tough time deciding on what to take!!! My only concern is I don't see anyway to regenerate any Analytical Strikes, which may be intentional to prevent broken-ness, which is understood. I would make the caster levels affect all arcane caster levels. Mixes caster damage and martial damage all in one. <3 Could even be a decent tree for Eldritch Knights or Bards or any other int based builds that come from the Harper Tree.

Ok, changed as per your suggestions. Also added a way to turn Analytical Strikes into spell power for Arcanotechs. The only problem being, I wouldn't know how they'd regen their - we also need an epic moment for the arcanotechs.

Silverleafeon
09-22-2014, 11:01 PM
SPLENDID NEW ENTRY THERE.
THANKS A MILLION!

Sev is keeping me hopping atm, lol...

Shrimpboy
09-23-2014, 11:35 AM
Ok, changed as per your suggestions. Also added a way to turn Analytical Strikes into spell power for Arcanotechs. The only problem being, I wouldn't know how they'd regen their - we also need an epic moment for the arcanotechs.

So the more I thought about it, the more I was curious how much damage +5W damage would really do. So I did basic math (could do percentages for O-Crit and Non-Crits to get the more precise number, but I did it for Needle. 6.5(d12 average) x 5 x 3(crit multplier on a roll of 10-20) gives 97.5 damage when you crit, 32.5 Non-crit (roll of 1-9). I feel this is very underwhelming, even considering the benefits compared to Fury. Even worse for thunderholme xbows. I don't know, does the extra benefits of the actual Tree make it worth the trade of +1000 damage crits from Adrenaline and the massive survivability bonuses of +Con and HP cores? I'm not sure. But just pointing it out. Obviously it shouldn't be as strong as adrenaline but +97.5 damage on a crit (which is only 55% of the time with tier 5 Strikes) is...eh. I think increasing it to +15W wouldn't be gamebreaking compared to other things, because melees can get +5W from Legendary Dreadnought Momentum Swing and Lay Waste. +15 means 292.5 extra damage on a crit with Needle which isn't Adrenaline strong but gives that FPS "BOOM, HEADSHOT!" happy feeling vibe. ^^

SillyWallaby
09-23-2014, 03:27 PM
Ok, so I copied this from Fury of the Wild and tried to make a mixed spell casting – ranged destiny, using some of the ideas above.

Innate abilities
Granted automatically as you level up in the destiny.
Passive Portion: You gain all of the following:
+1 damage per level of Artificer ED including this one (up to +6 total at level 5).
+1 Artificer, Sorcerer, Wizard or Bard caster level per level of Artificer ED not including this one (up to +5 total at level 5).
Active Portion: (Cooldown 5 second): You now have 2 Analytical Strikes: +[2] weapon dice and +2 to critical hit on your next attack.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0


What about instead of +1 damage its a +1 stacking enhancement bonus to equipped weapons? As an artificer you're upgrading your weapon, and you get a bit more spellpower from implement weapons (which helps the caster aspect of the ED)

And to be clear, when you say "to critical hit" you mean the critical multiplier, NOT a bonus to confirm crits? I think it should be giving a bonus to the mult, so Fury gives more crits and this gives bigger crits




Action Boost Focus I: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds) Nearby allies are raged gaining +[3/4/5] morale bonus to Strength and Intelligence, and suffer a -2 penalty to armor class. Nearby enemies take up to [10/20/30]d20 sonic damage. [3/4/5] uses per rest. Duration 3 minutes per use.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements


What about calling it something like "Flash of Brilliance" and give a bonus to Dexterity and Intelligence, remove the -AC/rage status, and do electric damage instead? That differentiates it more from Primal scream. Arties have some focus on electric damage so that fits better, and I feel the dex instead of str is more helpful for a ranged arti (And there's already scream for +str, and a dex bonus can be useful for other builds). Thematically I feel electricity and dexterity go together



Weapon Boost : Active Ability: (Cooldown 60 seconds) For the next 9/12/15 seconds attacks that you make are at [+1/2/3] and have a chance to knock targets prone against a a DC 15+Character Level+Str/Int (whichever is higher) Mod reflex check.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 0
No requirements



Strength/Intelligence: Passive Bonus: +1 Strength/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 0
No requirements


Again, why not change the str to dex, or in the case of the +stat, make it 3 choices: dex/str/int?



Unstoppable Mechanics : You tinker a bit with your pets and hirelings, adding bits and pieces to them. Passive Bonus to pets and hirelings: +1/2/4 to all stats, saves, to hit, damage and levels.
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 4
No requirements

What about giving them some more PRR/MRR, Dodge, and/or Incorpeal? That might help them survive in EE's and make it different from Natural Shielding/Grand Summoner. Or maybe a silly big bonus to AC because you armor the heck out of them? (We can't really have good AC, how about our pets/hires :P?)



Force Infusion : (Active) You hurtle a potion of bottled force at a single target. Tier 1: 3/6/10d100 force/untyped damage. Costs 20 sp, affected by force spellpower. Cooldown 15 Seconds.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 8
Requires:

Do you intend for this to act like the other potions spells? They sometimes fly wonky/break on the ceiling


Finely Honed Weapons : Passive Bonus: +[1/2/3]d6 bleeding damage is added to your weapons. [Edit: this might be stupid. feel free to change it to something else]
EDP Cost: 1
Ranks: 3 Progression: 8
No requirements

How about 5/10/15% fort bypass and helpless damage instead of the bleed damage?



Electrifying Blow: Active: Your next attack is filled with shocking electricity, is at +[3] weapon dice and has a chance to paralyze the target.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 12
No requirements

Whats the CD?


Endless Thought: Your Analytical Strike now regenerate on vorpal strikes.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 16
No requirements

Make it multi select and the other option is regen on 5% of spell casts?



Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

Unbridled Artificer ED Epic Moment : Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins). After 20 vorpal hits, this ability can be activated. If crossbow, then a 10 second endless fulisade with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit. If melee, then a 20 second +40% haste boost with +[2] weapon die and +4 to critical hit.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Make it multi select ranged/melee/caster? For the caster give it a boost to universal spellpower/crits or maybe a big pile of temp SP or even just gain some SP? Why not make it +5[W] / +8 like the Analytical Strikes? Unbridled Fury is basically 10 free Adrenalines, unless you were trying to make the capstone something new?

__________________________________________________ _______

So those are some of my thoughts to make it more arti/caster-y and a bit less "Fury, but Int"


So the more I thought about it, the more I was curious how much damage +5W damage would really do. So I did basic math (could do percentages for O-Crit and Non-Crits to get the more precise number, but I did it for Needle. 6.5(d12 average) x 5 x 3(crit multplier on a roll of 10-20) gives 97.5 damage when you crit, 32.5 Non-crit (roll of 1-9). I feel this is very underwhelming, even considering the benefits compared to Fury. Even worse for thunderholme xbows. I don't know, does the extra benefits of the actual Tree make it worth the trade of +1000 damage crits from Adrenaline and the massive survivability bonuses of +Con and HP cores? I'm not sure. But just pointing it out. Obviously it shouldn't be as strong as adrenaline but +97.5 damage on a crit (which is only 55% of the time with tier 5 Strikes) is...eh. I think increasing it to +15W wouldn't be gamebreaking compared to other things, because melees can get +5W from Legendary Dreadnought Momentum Swing and Lay Waste. +15 means 292.5 extra damage on a crit with Needle which isn't Adrenaline strong but gives that FPS "BOOM, HEADSHOT!" happy feeling vibe. ^^

How would the math change if Analytical Strikes is adding to the crit multiplier, as I think is intended? How do you get 10-20 crit for Needle, if you take the "to critical" to mean crit chance, I think a +8 would have crits on a 9 if you have improved critcal?

Singular
09-23-2014, 06:50 PM
So the more I thought about it, the more I was curious how much damage +5W damage would really do. So I did basic math (could do percentages for O-Crit and Non-Crits to get the more precise number, but I did it for Needle. 6.5(d12 average) x 5 x 3(crit multplier on a roll of 10-20) gives 97.5 damage when you crit, 32.5 Non-crit (roll of 1-9). I feel this is very underwhelming, even considering the benefits compared to Fury. Even worse for thunderholme xbows. I don't know, does the extra benefits of the actual Tree make it worth the trade of +1000 damage crits from Adrenaline and the massive survivability bonuses of +Con and HP cores? I'm not sure. But just pointing it out. Obviously it shouldn't be as strong as adrenaline but +97.5 damage on a crit (which is only 55% of the time with tier 5 Strikes) is...eh. I think increasing it to +15W wouldn't be gamebreaking compared to other things, because melees can get +5W from Legendary Dreadnought Momentum Swing and Lay Waste. +15 means 292.5 extra damage on a crit with Needle which isn't Adrenaline strong but gives that FPS "BOOM, HEADSHOT!" happy feeling vibe. ^^

I agree with you, totally.

tbh, I didn't calculate the damage, just took the kinds of numbers we usually see in EDs. But, yeah, I think it needs to be comparable damage output to adrenaline.

Singular
09-23-2014, 07:02 PM
What about instead of +1 damage its a +1 stacking enhancement bonus to equipped weapons? As an artificer you're upgrading your weapon, and you get a bit more spellpower from implement weapons (which helps the caster aspect of the ED)

Sounds good - that's not too powerful? That would be an additional +18 spell power. I guess not too high.


And to be clear, when you say "to critical hit" you mean the critical multiplier, NOT a bonus to confirm crits? I think it should be giving a bonus to the mult, so Fury gives more crits and this gives bigger crits

Ok, let's make that change too.


What about calling it something like "Flash of Brilliance" and give a bonus to Dexterity and Intelligence, remove the -AC/rage status, and do electric damage instead? That differentiates it more from Primal scream. Arties have some focus on electric damage so that fits better, and I feel the dex instead of str is more helpful for a ranged arti (And there's already scream for +str, and a dex bonus can be useful for other builds). Thematically I feel electricity and dexterity go together

Ah, that's my mistake. I didn't catch it - oops! I directly copied from Fury, then went through each power and altered it to make it an artie one. I must have missed that. Yes, we shouldn't replicate Primal Scream.


Again, why not change the str to dex, or in the case of the +stat, make it 3 choices: dex/str/int?

Sure, we can do that. The reason I didn't is b/c all the other EDs only offer 2 choices. str/int seems more important than dex - all dex does is add a to hit bonus.


What about giving them some more PRR/MRR, Dodge, and/or Incorpeal? That might help them survive in EE's and make it different from Natural Shielding/Grand Summoner. Or maybe a silly big bonus to AC because you armor the heck out of them? (We can't really have good AC, how about our pets/hires :P?)

Ok - find some place to put it, let's add it in. We can swap out the primal scream for this immediately.


Do you intend for this to act like the other potions spells? They sometimes fly wonky/break on the ceiling

Yes, to fit w/the artie flavor. Yeah, the wonky part sucks. That's a dev bug issue, though.


How about 5/10/15% fort bypass and helpless damage instead of the bleed damage?

Ok!


Whats the CD?

Good point. 5 seconds.


Make it multi select and the other option is regen on 5% of spell casts?

Make it multi select ranged/melee/caster? For the caster give it a boost to universal spellpower/crits or maybe a big pile of temp SP or even just gain some SP? Why not make it +5[W] / +8 like the Analytical Strikes? Unbridled Fury is basically 10 free Adrenalines, unless you were trying to make the capstone something new?

Please do come up with an arcanotech version. I'm kinda lost there.

Yes, I was trying to come up with something new - I thought an extended EF would be that. In the comments above, one person suggested that an artie ED should extend the duration of EF. I was thinking that, if appropriately long, with the right damage bonuses, it would pump out about the same dps as a Fury Shot.




So those are some of my thoughts to make it more arti/caster-y and a bit less "Fury, but Int"

How would the math change if Analytical Strikes is adding to the crit multiplier, as I think is intended? How do you get 10-20 crit for Needle, if you take the "to critical" to mean crit chance, I think a +8 would have crits on a 9 if you have improved critcal?

Now you're asking for math! Arg! Shrimpboy worked out some above. I was aiming for something that would be similar in dps output to adrenaline shots - that requires something comparable to 300, then 400% damage multiplier. I'll get back to you on this :) unless someone comes up with a clever way to do it without replicating adrenaline.

Shrimpboy
09-23-2014, 07:07 PM
How would the math change if Analytical Strikes is adding to the crit multiplier, as I think is intended? How do you get 10-20 crit for Needle, if you take the "to critical" to mean crit chance, I think a +8 would have crits on a 9 if you have improved critcal?

First off, I love the fort bypass and helpless damage idea, as well as the enhancement bonus per level vs damage. And yes, you are correct, it should be a crit on a 9 which means 60% chance, my apologies. My estimate is still rough because I didn't factor in O-Crit (which favors Adrenaline anyway, further proving my point.) Lastly, the bonus to crit multiplier instead of crit range would vary the math extraordinarily, because the crit multiplier's damage potential depends on all factors, like seeker and int mod and enhancement bonuses, etc. The more + to damage you get, the more mileage from crit multiplier you get, while the crit range with increased W values is a straight additive to your DPS compared to a normal crit or hit. So calculating the damage potential of crit multiplier is iffy.

Singular
09-23-2014, 09:19 PM
So the more I thought about it, the more I was curious how much damage +5W damage would really do. So I did basic math (could do percentages for O-Crit and Non-Crits to get the more precise number, but I did it for Needle. 6.5(d12 average) x 5 x 3(crit multplier on a roll of 10-20) gives 97.5 damage when you crit, 32.5 Non-crit (roll of 1-9). I feel this is very underwhelming, even considering the benefits compared to Fury. Even worse for thunderholme xbows. I don't know, does the extra benefits of the actual Tree make it worth the trade of +1000 damage crits from Adrenaline and the massive survivability bonuses of +Con and HP cores? I'm not sure. But just pointing it out. Obviously it shouldn't be as strong as adrenaline but +97.5 damage on a crit (which is only 55% of the time with tier 5 Strikes) is...eh. I think increasing it to +15W wouldn't be gamebreaking compared to other things, because melees can get +5W from Legendary Dreadnought Momentum Swing and Lay Waste. +15 means 292.5 extra damage on a crit with Needle which isn't Adrenaline strong but gives that FPS "BOOM, HEADSHOT!" happy feeling vibe. ^^

Ok, so let's work out an Analytical Strikes that compares to Adrenaline in Needle:

A few assumptions:
- I’m not accounting for precision (up to +30%)
- that people will have Overwhelming Critical
- I’m assuming +17 max seeker (an EE Consuming Darkness)
- I’m not adding in sneak damage, since it would be the same for both
- I’m ignoring the red/orange slot, since it can be equal for both weapons
- Int damage from Intelligent Strikes is set at 20
- Deadly is set to 11, which is max afaik.
- I’m assuming feats appropriate for repeaters – improved critical, point blank range, etc
- NOTE: all values above what my assumptions are that are added to base damage increase Needle’s dps greater than Thunderholme’s b/c of its crit multiplier.
- This is for fleshies, not wf. To make it for toasters, add 0.5 to the weapon die (I'll put that at the bottom)

Damage sources:
Weapon: (2-12) for N, rounded to 7

Weapon bonus: +11 for N (b/c of artie bonuses)
Int: +20
Deadly: +11
Battle Engineer: +5
Prowess for Needle: +4
ED bonus: +6

= 57

Added Critical Damage:
Battle Engineer: +3 to crits
Seeker: +12
Exceptional Seeker: +5

= 20

Weapon multipliers:
Deadly: +1
Point Blank Range: +1
Combat Archery: +1
Weapon: +2.5

Criticals:
17-20 = +[*3]
19-20 = +[*1]

Average shot:

Needle:
[5.5(7)+(11+20+11+5+4+6)]*15+[3*5.5(7)+(11+20+11+5+4+12+5+3+6)]*2+[4*5.5(7)+(11+20+11+5+4+12+5+3+6)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[5.5(7)+57]*15+[3*(5.5(7)+77)]*2+[4*(5.5(7)+77)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[38.5+57]*15+[3*(38.5+77)]*2+[4*(38.5+77)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[96.5]*15+[3*(116.5)]*2+[4*(116.5)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
1447.5+699+932+0(0.05)*1=2875.5
3078.5/20 = 153.925

153.925 is the average shot by Needle, not including phlembotomizing, red augments or additional damage sources, like Dragon Masques. To compare Needle to TH weapons, add phlembotomizing.

Ok, so this tell us criticals with full 400% Adrenaline will look like so:
Normal crit: 349.5*4 = 1398
19-20 crit: 466*4 = 1864

(Just for information, max damage would be:
Normal crit: 429*4 = 1716
19-20 crit: 572*4 = 2288

Ok - am I missing something here? I often hit above 2500 hp dam w/Needle in Fury. EDIT: perhaps it's the archer's focus.)

(I can't wait to get Overwhelming Critical!!!).

Singular
09-23-2014, 09:23 PM
Ok, so here is a repost of the steps above:

Needle:
[5.5(7)+(11+20+11+5+4+6)]*15+[3*5.5(7)+(11+20+11+5+4+12+5+3+6)]*2+[4*5.5(7)+(11+20+11+5+4+12+5+3+6)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[5.5(7)+57]*15+[3*(5.5(7)+77)]*2+[4*(5.5(7)+77)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[38.5+57]*15+[3*(38.5+77)]*2+[4*(38.5+77)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[96.5]*15+[3*(116.5)]*2+[4*(116.5)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
1447.5+699+932+0(0.05)*1=2875.5
3078.5/20 = 153.925

If we add to the weapon mod, we get:

+5

[10.5(7)+57]*15+[3*(10.5(7)+77)]*2+[4*(10.5(7)+77)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[73.5+57]*15+[3*(73.5+77)]*2+[4*(73.5+77)]*2+0(0.05)*1=
[130.5]*15+[3*(150.5)]*2+[4*(150.5]*2+0(0.05)*1=
1957.5+903+1204+0= 4064.5/20

203.225

So, yeah, a +5 weapon mod doesn't do much. We'll likely have to add melee/ranged power or some kind of crit modifier but, as Shrimpboy mentions above, the math gets really tricky - no wonder the devs went with straight up 300 and 400% increase in damage! That's easy to calculate.

Instead of weapon mod, let's just increase the crit multiplier. Assuming average weapon damage of 7:

Needle starts at *3 = 349.5
Overwhelming Crit *4 = 466
*5 = 582.5
*6 = 699
*7 = 815.5
*8 = 932
*9 = 1048.5
*10 = 1165

etc. (just add 116.5 to each step).

So that would be another way to go - adding ranged and melee power with each level (3-5 perhaps - apparently LD is going to have 5/level so maybe this one should just be 3).

Without knowing exactly how much melee/ranged power any toon will have, it's impossible to say what crit bonus to give. The point is to approach Adrenaline, so it should max out at 400% (or not quite reach it).

Were we to ignore an increased crit chance, it could be a straight forward boost in M/R power. In that case, I'd recommend:

Innate abilities
Granted automatically as you level up in the destiny.
Passive Portion: You gain all of the following:
+1 enchantment bonus per level of Artificer ED including this one (up to +6 total at level 5).
+1 Artificer, Sorcerer, Wizard or Bard caster level per level of Artificer ED not including this one (up to +5 total at level 5).
Active Portion: (Cooldown 5 second): You now have 2 Analytical Strikes: +100 weapon power.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0

No requirements
Bodily Focus I : (Passive) Bonus: gain +25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical Strike and it increases to +200 weapon power.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8

Bodily Focus II: (Passive) Gain an additional 25 maximum HP and 25 maximum SP.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it increases to +300 weapon power.
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16

Active Portion: (Cooldown: 5 seconds) You gain one more Analytical strike and it increases to +400 weapon power.
Additionally, you gain: (Cooldown: 120 seconds) Radiant Forcefield of 35% damage absorption for 20 seconds. [Edit: or decrease it back to 25 and make the duration twice as long as the spell or something, or put something else here – I’m having issues coming up with novel artificer actives]
EDP Cost: 0
Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20
No requirements

___________________

Please note: in the above, I changed the +1 dam/lvl to +1 weapon enchantment per level. Second, the above includes no bonus to crit - that makes it slightly less powerful than adrenaline. Given that spell power is also being boosted in the above, I'm not sure it needs to be exactly on par with Adrenaline - what do you think?

SillyWallaby
09-23-2014, 10:48 PM
Sure, we can do that. The reason I didn't is b/c all the other EDs only offer 2 choices. str/int seems more important than dex - all dex does is add a to hit bonus.

Divine Crusader is str/wis/cha, and maybe someone will find a use for dex.



Ok - find some place to put it, let's add it in. We can swap out the primal scream for this immediately.

I was thinking it would replace what was there originally, to make it something different. Compared to 100 hp/60 prr/evasion from Natural shielding +4 stats/saves/dmg/hit doesn't seem like much to me. Maybe make it give 3/6/10% dodge and 30/60/100 AC and Rank 3: 25% incorporeal (your dog/hire has died so much that it's part ghost :P)



Please do come up with an arcanotech version. I'm kinda lost there.

I meant something similar to how humans can take a spellpower action boost or how Unyielding Sentinel gives temp HP. So something like 100 universal spellpower for 20 sec OR 1000 temp spellpoints for 20 sec, OR maybe free meta magics for 20 sec?

Just had an idea for another possible capstone/T6 effect, single shot xbows shoot 2 extra bolts, so they shoot 3 like repeaters. I miss using greatcrossbows :(

Singular
09-24-2014, 02:56 AM
Divine Crusader is str/wis/cha, and maybe someone will find a use for dex.


I was thinking it would replace what was there originally, to make it something different. Compared to 100 hp/60 prr/evasion from Natural shielding +4 stats/saves/dmg/hit doesn't seem like much to me. Maybe make it give 3/6/10% dodge and 30/60/100 AC and Rank 3: 25% incorporeal (your dog/hire has died so much that it's part ghost :P)


I meant something similar to how humans can take a spellpower action boost or how Unyielding Sentinel gives temp HP. So something like 100 universal spellpower for 20 sec OR 1000 temp spellpoints for 20 sec, OR maybe free meta magics for 20 sec?

Just had an idea for another possible capstone/T6 effect, single shot xbows shoot 2 extra bolts, so they shoot 3 like repeaters. I miss using greatcrossbows :(

Sounds good - I'll work them in.

Uhm, looked up Draconic and Magister for their epic moments. They both suck. So I suggest we go along with that and ignore our arcanotechnicians, too.

Just kidding.

How about something like:

Overpowered: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins). After 20 spell crits, this ability can be activated. You release massive stored energy into your spells for a brief time. For 20 seconds, your spell power is increased by 200.
EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1 Progression: 20

Silverleafeon
09-25-2014, 05:46 PM
Linked the other Artificer ED thread to this one on page one.
Will place your ED upon page one soon.


Currently working on a brainstorm for Acolyte of the Skin, and some PC stuff atm.
Will try to get the basics of a tree up when my brain comes up with more ideas.

Phaeton_Seraph
09-25-2014, 07:08 PM
I want to start out broad and not narrow things down too fast.

1) What do you most want to see added to Artificiers?

2) Should this be a range or a caster tree or a hybrid?

3) Is there any particular theme you want pursued?

4) Ideas in general are very welcome.

5) What ideas do you have or want for the Artificer ED?

6) I would like to start an possible new sphere and call it a planar sphere, if I do I would need to link the artificer Epic Destiny to a plane. Is this possible, or even desirable. The passive bonus for the planar sphere could be similar to the Primal but sp instead of hp.

Orbiting Eberron are the thirteen planes:
? Daanvi, the Perfect Order
? Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams
? Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead
? Fernia, the Sea of Fire
? Irian, the Eternal Day
? Kythri, the Churning Chaos
? Lamannia, the Twilight Forest
? Mabar, the Endless Night
? Risia, the Plain of Ice
? Shavarath, the Battleground
? Syrania, the Azure Sky
? Thelanis, the Faerie Court
? Xoriat, the Realm of Madness

Thank you, very much for your help.
I cannot do this on my own.

2) Not saying that this is what I want, but I wonder if this isn't the opportunity to make a Melee-ficer viable without the need for multiple past lives and weird wranglings.

This would be similar to the way the Rogue Mechanic tree and the Acrobat tree, but instead of Acrobats, we could have the Artificer's version of the Eldritch Knight (an alchemical knight? Then we can call them Alchi-ficers).

It would require reformatting the B.E. tree a bit to move the hand&half/bastard swords over, and then make the BEs weapon specialisation useful again. They could give us back Skill boost, and give us something like Awareness, or something to boost our spot and searches into the BE tree.

A Melee-ficer would need some tactical SLAs and such, in a similar (but hopefully more useful) way to the Eldritch Knight (http://ddowiki.com/page/Wizard_Eldritch_Knight_enhancements) tree. We would need Artie versions of the EK enhancements:


Weapon Mastery - this would be an enhancement to give Dwarven axe or bastard sword proficiencies (or a choic thereof).
Rune Arm Shield Training - adds DR to shield for blocking. And allows for Rune Arm to charge to a higher level while blocking.
An Artie version of Battemage.
Armour proficiency (Heavy), and an ASF add-on for Heavy Armour.
Toughness

Some sort of boost to Str (maybe connected to a rune arm charge?)

The melee-ficer is really the only direction I think makes sense (although it's probably not my bag). Then you have ranged, arcane and melee, and combinations thereof.

Singular
09-26-2014, 05:56 AM
2) Not saying that this is what I want, but I wonder if this isn't the opportunity to make a Melee-ficer viable without the need for multiple past lives and weird wranglings.

This would be similar to the way the Rogue Mechanic tree and the Acrobat tree, but instead of Acrobats, we could have the Artificer's version of the Eldritch Knight (an alchemical knight? Then we can call them Alchi-ficers).

It would require reformatting the B.E. tree a bit to move the hand&half/bastard swords over, and then make the BEs weapon specialisation useful again. They could give us back Skill boost, and give us something like Awareness, or something to boost our spot and searches into the BE tree.

A Melee-ficer would need some tactical SLAs and such, in a similar (but hopefully more useful) way to the Eldritch Knight (http://ddowiki.com/page/Wizard_Eldritch_Knight_enhancements) tree. We would need Artie versions of the EK enhancements:


Weapon Mastery - this would be an enhancement to give Dwarven axe or bastard sword proficiencies (or a choic thereof).
Rune Arm Shield Training - adds DR to shield for blocking. And allows for Rune Arm to charge to a higher level while blocking.
An Artie version of Battemage.
Armour proficiency (Heavy), and an ASF add-on for Heavy Armour.
Toughness

Some sort of boost to Str (maybe connected to a rune arm charge?)

The melee-ficer is really the only direction I think makes sense (although it's probably not my bag). Then you have ranged, arcane and melee, and combinations thereof.

You know what would be awesome?

If you could create an energy field around you with your rune arm, thereby acting as a shield.

Shrimpboy
09-26-2014, 06:32 AM
You know what would be awesome?

If you could create an energy field around you with your rune arm, thereby acting as a shield.

Devs... Get on this! Defensive Rune Arms with a forcefield shot that gives DR and Energy Absortion on a higher percentage and duration per charge level. Great for both meleeficers and survivability ranged characters.

Luxgolg
09-26-2014, 09:43 AM
You know what would be awesome?

If you could create an energy field around you with your rune arm, thereby acting as a shield.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Libram_of_Silver_Magic

Sort of like when you active block with this, or any other orb. It creates a purple magical shield in front of the caster and boosts something

Soth13
09-26-2014, 10:40 AM
I didn't read through the whole thread so if this was already mentioned bear with me. Yes ED's are based around a class, but they are also designed to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Meaning if you design the ED around rune arm use it should give the ability to use rune arms if the character does not already have it. A good example of this is the Divine Crusader tree that gives turn undead as a tier 1 ability

just my 2cp


Edit: read trough the entire thread, It was indeed mentioned. As such I second the thought of it adding the feat (obviously)

Silverleafeon
09-26-2014, 05:38 PM
I'll try to update page one, people are just kind of looking but not replying at the new Acolyte of the Skin rerolls round 1, so its either complex, possibly good, or plain terrible; I'll find out in a few days, in the meantime some attention here would be good. I'll see what I can do.

Oxarhamar
09-26-2014, 10:18 PM
alchemist ED

Just No!

It's all rune arm & Shiradi

No more Shiradi!


At least if this is going your serious proposal make all the Rune Arm bits a Multi selector to some passive ranged damage bonuses (no 7% Shiradi procs)

That way Artificers who don't want to use the Broke-arm can still use the ED.

Otherwise I'll just stick to DC, LD, Fury.


I am fine with the ED having rune arm stuff but' don't make it the only path.

Look at what Artificers do Ranged,melee,casting Runearms. The ED needs to be more like DC where it supports all those styles through different branches of the tree or multi selectors.

Oxarhamar
09-26-2014, 10:23 PM
The ED needs an alternate path to runearm use more Battle Engineer focused with a way to increase the durations of EF

Singular
09-28-2014, 03:17 AM
The ED needs an alternate path to runearm use more Battle Engineer focused with a way to increase the durations of EF

Ok, I'll add the runearm feat - but I stuck a way to extend EF in it.

Orberron
10-01-2014, 09:43 AM
I'm not quite sure if something similar has been suggested, but i'd like to see a melee focused tree that would allow you to get the benefit of both swf and thf (maybe an enhancement line that allows you to gain half the benefit of the thf line of feats, at the cost of half the attack speed bonus from the swf line of feats) for the bastard sword and dwarven axe.

Additional stuff i'd like to see in the tree is prr and mrr bonuses and the ability to wear heavy armor/ take the adamantine body feat while not taking an arcane spell failure penalty. Heck I think it'd be neat if there was an enhancement line in the tree (or maybe as the cores) that allows you to toggle your runearm between offensive and defensive modes.

That way you can modify your runearm so that instead of it doing being used to shoot glowing balls of death at monsters it makes a forcefield around you. The prr/mrr bonuses could go up depending on the maximum tier of the runearm, ie. if the runearm only has a max tier of 3 your prr and mrr bonuses could be similar to that of a medium shield, while a max tier of 5 could have the bonus be similar to that of a tower shield.

I'd also like to see it have force damage added to your melee hits that increases based on your force spellpower.

I'm honestly not quite sure if something like that is even possible from a coding standpoint, but i'd love an arti tree that focuses on melee damage and damage reduction.

Silverleafeon
10-02-2014, 04:28 PM
Reading here and the Devs just dropped another thread in the Player's Council Forums.
I will do more here, but I have to reply to that thread within a few days.
Keep up with the PC stuff first, then the projects.

Good news is Update 24 is already being worked upon.

Thayion516
10-05-2014, 03:37 PM
Welp, all this input on a artificer ED (which I dont really see the need for and I think is too specific for implementation) but where are the Artificer Enhancement Trees? That is where the real work needs to be done and allows for some Artificer specific playstyles and power increases. The current enhancements are kinda horrible. LOL.

1 Melee/range tree.
1 caster/rune arm tree
1 fleshy/pet tree
IMO.

Tier 1 deals with general stuff like Search/Trap/Repair skills and maybe -10 ASF with plating.

Mix in some very solid/good passive enhancements into tier 2 and 3 to encourage different play styles/build mixes.

Tier 4 should be some powerful effects/clickies that increase some base abilities/mechanics or simulate effects (Evasion, or +2/4/6 to tactical detonation DC, Intel bonus increase repair%, ect..)

A defining tier 5 ability in each that is fully unique, powerful and flavorful.

Failedlegend
10-05-2014, 03:53 PM
stuff - see below

We have discussed several things about the trees..in short

1 Melee/range tree. (Battle Engineer w/ the rune arm stuff moved to Arcano or RMM)
1 caster/rune arm tree (Arcano with the Doggie stuff moved to either the dog personal tree or Renegade Master Maker)
1 fleshy/pet tree (Focus on Construct essence, arty dog, and some cool techy/engineer type abilities, also Battle fist)

Obviously the gaps in BE and AT would to be filled with combat/spellcastery things but the devs tend to tweak existing trees when they make a new one anyways.



Mix in some very solid/good enhancements into tier 2 and 3 to encourage different play styles/build mixes.

100% agreed, multi-classing has sort of become a "dirty word" around here so people flip out at synergies and whilst I agree the capstone in general need to be quite potent there also needs to be some cool synergies between classes especially iconic mixes (like Fighter/Wizards, Monk/Clerics, Fighter/Clerics, Druid/Monks, Druid/Barbarians, Bard/Barbarians, Paladin/Sorcs, etc.)



Welp, all this input on a artificer ED (which I dont really see the need for and I think is too specific for implementation)


I think the idea is to make an ED that focuses on X-Bow use and the rune arm...the former is a weapon anyone can use the latter can be granted as a proficiency in the first core (IOW not twistable) or a diff bonus if you already have proficiency (basically it a multi-selector with the other bonus requiring rune arm prof)


That said I'd like to fill out my Renegade Master Maker idea a bit, courtesy of some of the ideas here, a couple things from Edrein's Animal Lord and some ideas I've thought of since (I will post the tree once I'm done editing)

Thayion516
10-05-2014, 04:09 PM
That "Battle Fist" thing is too restrictive. Put in more weapon types to select as not to bind people into one weapon type. What if people don't want to use only Unarmed?

Why not just be a Monk?

Also you are using a full top to bottom slot on one singular ability. There are only what, 25?, total slots to be used IF all are used, most all trees do not use all slots. The Opportunity Cost is too high to pigeon hole one play style within an already melee focused tree.

One of the best things in the Swashbuckler tree is that it does not force you into a single weapon, but more over just focuses on a Style/Flavor with individually fun/powerful abilities to mix and match with.

Failedlegend
10-05-2014, 04:35 PM
Also you are using a full top to bottom slot on one singular ability. There are only what, 25?, total slots to be used IF all are used, most all trees do not use all slots. The Opportunity Cost is too high to pigeon hole one play style within an already melee focused tree.


First off it's not ready I didn't mean to paste it...I will post it later

Second it's not uncommon for trees to hae a specialty weapon, it doesn't force you to use it.

BE has a full line for only X-Bows or Bastard Swords
Warpriest has a line that only works for your divine weapon
Vangaurd is entirely based on using shields
Stalwart & Sacred Defender reuire a medium/heavy armor or a shield
Most caster trees have a line dedicated to metamagic, SLAs and/or crits...not every caster wants all of those
Henshin/Theif Acrobat have a whole line and several abilities based on
Ninja Spy = Short swords
Both AA & DWS requires a Bow for the majority of their abilities
Same with Assassin with Daggers/Kukris (AFAIK this is a bug though it's supposed to be any piercing weapons)
Mechanic = X-bows

On the other hand I'm fine with it being a single enhancement that scales with character level, again it's not ready...I will add it soon.

Failedlegend
10-05-2014, 08:46 PM
Renegade Mastermaker

Core 1 Construct Essence - Gain 50% healing from Repair spells but suffer a -25% penalty to positive energy healing. In addition, you now take 50% damage from rust effects. This healing increase by 10% for every Core ability (penalty remains at -25%), Gain Living construct type (as well as your current) +1 Repair Spellpower per pt. spent in tree.
Core 3 Malfunctioning Constructs: Deal ?d? physical damage in an 30ft AOE for 30 seconds
Core 6 Auto-Repair Systems (2d4 repair (+1 per caster level) every 2 seconds, Duration: 60 seconds + 4 seconds per character level)
Core 12 Repair Mod, Mass
Core 15 A "repair" version of True Rez (SLA) (Rebuild?)
Core 18 Mass Recon
Core 20 Passive: +2 Int/Con, +40 Repair Amp (for a total of 150%)

Active Choose 1:

- Makeshift Mechsuit: Until you run out of temp HPs you gain enter a Titan-esque form (effect is simialar tensor's effect except metallic w/ blue glow lines and solid)- whilst this form is active you gain +X Str . Xx10 Temp HPs ,+X PRR(x = Int Score) ,all elemental damage is reduced by half and you melee attacks gain knockdown on hit (fort save based on int).This can only be used once per rest.

- Giant Ballista: Your X-Bow (any type) gains the max charge damage of your rune arm (and all it's effects) until you fire X shots (x= int score) or 2 minutes have passed during this effect you move at half your regular speed but do not need to reload as the bolts appear magically, your rune arm eill not charge during this ability. This can only be used once per rest.


Tier 1
- Battle Fist or Palm Shot (see below for details)
- Rune Arm Tinkering: Your Rune arm gains +1/2/3 DCs
- Technological Terror: Will Save vs. UMD check - Failed save = fear, successful save = shaken
- Improving the Formula: Any potion you consume is cast at your artificer level or the level of the potion +3, whichever is greater.
- Curious (+1/2/3 UMD, Spellcraft, Repair)


Tier 2
- Improved Battle Fist or Palm Shot
- Master Crafter: ANY crafting you do requires 15% less materials
- Metal Plating: Multi-selector allowing choice of Composite, Mithral or Adamantine Plating (as WF Feats) and allows use of docents
- Inspiration: Multi-selector (see "Inventions" below)
- Intelligent Design - Add your character level to your constructs Attack,Intim, Bluff, PRR, MRR and AC as well as +6 to all Stats.


Tier 3
- Masterwork Battle Fist or Palm Shot
- Filtration System: +2/4/6 Fort Save, Underwater Action @ Rank 2, No fail on 1 @ Rank 3
- Inscribed Armor removes ASF penalty from plating
- Further Inspiration: choose a 2nd "Invention"
- Str, Con or Int


Tier 4
- Perfect Battle Fist or Palm Shot
- Dual Minded: +2/4/6 Will Save, Immune to Ability Damage/Negative Levels @ Rank2, No fail on 1 @ Rank 3
- Imbued Rune arm :You have become one with your rune arm causing it to automatically fire when it hits max charge (this is a toggle)
- Turret SLA of some sort
- Str, Con or Int


Tier 5
- Rocket Punch or Missile Launcher: Requires PBF or PPS (see below for details)
- Master Builder: Your Arty construct's level is now your character level (epic included)
- Force Shield: Your MRR and MRR Cap increase by X when wielding your rune arm, also every time you charge your rune arm to max (sitting at max does nothing) you gain THP = your max charge level x your int mod, also your MRR is doubled vs. Traps.
- Evocation focus: +1 to all evocation spells.
- Nano Skinmeld: +20/40/60% to you and your constructas Fortification



Inventions (feel free to make suggestions)

- Caltrops. X% Slow effect and 1d4 per caster level piercing damage with no save in a 30ft area for 30+1 per caster level seconds. Oozes and incorporeal targets are immune to this.
- Vacuum: Toggle, destorys all nearby breakable and loots any purple bags/items on the ground except BTC stuff.
- "World Enlarger": Makes you incredibly tiny causing you to gain +40 Hide/MS and Sheds all aggro until you attack
- Rocket Booster: Featherfall effect & +40 jump for 1/minute per caster level
- Water Striders: Walk on water for 30 seconds
- Water Scooter: Passive Increase to swim speed by 100%
- Rocket Powered Roller Skates: Toggle: Untyped (or "Tech") Increase to movement speed by 10% (100% in public areas)
- Decoy: Creates a believable copy of you that immediately gains the top aggro slot until it dies (starts with the same as your max HP)


Weapon

Palm Shot - Alternative choice to Battle fist follows same progression except for tier one which counts as either GX-Bow or Repeater (based on whatever you have equipped) and your GX-Bow/Repeaters gain Int-to-damage.
Battle Fist - Grants profieciency with handwraps, uses SWF (since you wield a rune arm in other hand) this counts as a bludgeoning weapon AND unarmed (in PnP it was considered natural AND manufactured weapon making it special) for any effects such as improved weapon finesse. The "Arm" can be improved through "Modifications"
Note: This a multi-selector for a Heavy OR Light Battlefist with the former being 1d8 base but is not finessable the latter being 1d6

Tier 1 - Your Unarmed "Battlefist" Attacks are considered 1d6 Mithral & Finessable (or 1d8 & Adamantine if Heavy)
Tier 2 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector)
Tier 3 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector), +1 Crit Range
Tier 4 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector), +1 Crit Threat
Tier 5 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector), Unique Attack
Battlefist: Rocket uppercut +3[w] prone & stunned on failed reflex save uses int for DC, balance check to get back up
Palm shot: Missile - ???


Modification Ideas (please any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated)

Battle Fist
Active) Branding iron - X% Vunerability on target touch attack
Passive) Electric Gauntlet - Adds a lesser lightning based effect (5% chance to do char level D4 shock damage on hit)
Active) Powered Grapple - Holds an opponent in place. Looks and acts just like Hold Person spell, but with a fort save.

Palm Shot
Active) Rain of Fire - 30ft AOE regular ranged attack vs. all targets (including secondary efefcts on rune arm and weapon)

Both
Passive) Unstable Coolant - Percent chance freeze guard. 5% freeze target upon being hit, fort save
Passive) Grounding Harnesses - Electric Damage immunity (or possibly even healing)
Active) Grapple Hook - Flings you towards target enemy dealing +3{w} damage upon "collison"
Passive) Force Deflection - Retruns any magic missles or similar spells or SLA back at caster

Silverleafeon
10-08-2014, 08:38 AM
EXCELLENT WORK Failed, nice job.

I have decided to quote older rounds and leave them inside the thread and only put current rounds on page one.

I have some work organizational, and a lot of comments and quotes to make here.

This is a veritable paradise for developers when in due they explore the possibilities of the lost trees.
Any comments on trees, ideas, new trees, etc are greatly appreciated.

I have four projects going here, plus the possibility of the next class after the possible next class.
We can do this, and I thank everyone who participates, large or small.

THANK YOU, together we can do this.

Failedlegend
10-08-2014, 09:37 AM
EXCELLENT WORK Failed, nice job.

Thanks :) Any suggestions to improve it?



I have decided to quote older rounds and leave them inside the thread and only put current rounds on page one.


Since tyhe trees themselves take up alot of space why not just post the link to each most updated version in your project threads

Something like this:

Various Tree Suggestions

Failedlegend's Renegade Mastermaker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5445614&viewfull=1#post5445614)
Singular's Arty ED (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5435326&viewfull=1#post5435326)
Silverleafeon's Alchemist (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5421548&viewfull=1#post5421548)
Failedlegend's Future Arachnotech rebuild (http://www.johnbearross.com/spiderdetail2.jpg)
Failedlegend's Future Battle Engineer rebuild (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/152/1/5/steampunk_cannoneer_by_jubjubjedi-d67bs79.jpg)

Silverleafeon
10-18-2014, 03:54 AM
Thanks :) Any suggestions to improve it?

Sadly at the moment, I feel a bit like I have a writer's block concerning artificer creativity, hopefully it will pass...lol...




Since tyhe trees themselves take up alot of space why not just post the link to each most updated version in your project threads

Something like this:

Various Tree Suggestions

Failedlegend's Renegade Mastermaker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5445614&viewfull=1#post5445614)
Singular's Arty ED (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5435326&viewfull=1#post5435326)
Silverleafeon's Alchemist (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5421548&viewfull=1#post5421548)
Failedlegend's Future Arachnotech rebuild (http://www.johnbearross.com/spiderdetail2.jpg)
Failedlegend's Future Battle Engineer rebuild (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/152/1/5/steampunk_cannoneer_by_jubjubjedi-d67bs79.jpg)

Perfect, thank you so much!

Silverleafeon
10-18-2014, 03:59 AM
Since I have a tendency to lose earlier rounds sometimes, here is the earlier rounds of alchemist:

I did find an public Dev statement that Crafting is still a desirable things to upgrade if the Devs ever find time to do so, hence I will leave the Crafting bonus inside Alchemist, and add Rune Arm use to it for a basic round 3 upgrade. Also evasion at tier 5, somewhere.



Alchemist round 2


Innate abilities

Alchemist Rune Knowledge I : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in Alchemist. Gain +25 sp for each level you posses in Alchemist. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge II: The penalty for moving while charging a rune arm (if any) is cut into half. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by the Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge III: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge IV: Arcane Capacitors: When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 50% slower than normal. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Thaumaturgical Conduits: You have made improvements to the efficiency of your rune arms. Your rune arms build charge a stacking 25% faster. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by the Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier One

Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Alchemist Epic Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.


Repairing Runes : Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Nearby allies heal 1d100 repair energy every [60/40/20] seconds for five minutes. Usable once per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Empowering Runes I : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 2.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Covering Shots : Active Ability: (Cooldown [30/20/15] seconds) Toss three daggers in a cyconic arc in front you, each dealing [10d20/15d20/20d20] piercing damage.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 0 No requirements


Craftmaster The Alchemist gains an additional +2 stacking bonus to all crafting skills.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 No requirements



Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods : Alchemist Ranged Stance: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d6] extra force damage and exhaust foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements


Empowering Runes II : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 3.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemical Skillfulness : +1/+2 Use Magic Device

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings I : Passive Bonus: Repairing Runes additionally grants DR [2/4/6]/ Adamantine and stacking [2/4/6] spellpower to nearby allies. 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 4 Requires: repairing runes



Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements



Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Blinding Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d8] extra light damage and blind foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Empowering Runes III : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 4.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 8 Requirement: Empowering Runes II


Exploding Runes I : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d12] extra fire damage with a splash effect that harms foes in a 5 meter radius. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Exploding Runes I : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d12] extra fire damage with a splash effect that harms foes in a 5 meter radius. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 No requirements



Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Freezing Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d10] extra cold damage and slow foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Mobility Runes : Charging your rune arm no longer causes you to move at reduced speed.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Master of the Blades : Passive: Your Blade Barrier spell has +2/+4 maximum caster level.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements


Improving the Formula Any potion you consume is cast at a stacking +10 caster level of the current level of the potion.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 No requirements


Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Paralyzing Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to chance to paralyze living creatures for 3 seconds. (No saving throw observed). Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Shouting Runes: Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [5d10] extra sonic damage. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Detect Armor Weakness : Passive Bonus: Ranged attacks reduce enemy Fort by -1 for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to [3/6/10] times.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 16 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 No requirements


Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Turbine a more powerful version of Blade Barrier. Unlike Blade Barrier, it also causes damage (but not as much) to enemies who stay standing in it. However, you can't keep it up for as long.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Runic Reserve Activating this Rune is a Spell that restores spell points and cures feeblemind. Major = 105-600

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings II : 3 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Lord of the Blades Teachings I


Body Of War Fuzzy Math {Sev and Varg can sort it out} ~ an effect to temporarily turn you into a Warforged Titan. Similar to Nature's Avatar form, except attack speed isn't reduced (so the +damage doesn't have to be as extreme). You're not as big as some enemy WFTs found around the game; less than twice as tall as a regular player.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements




.............................................



Alchemist round 1


Innate abilities

Alchemist Rune Knowledge I : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in Alchemist. Gain +25 sp, +10 hp, and All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge II: Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by the Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level. The penalty for moving while charging a rune arm (if any) is cut into half. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge III: Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level. Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge IV: Arcane Capacitors: When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 50% slower than normal. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by the Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level. Thaumaturgical Conduits: You have made improvements to the efficiency of your rune arms. Your rune arms build charge a stacking 25% faster.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level. Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier One

Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Alchemist Epic Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.


Repairing Runes : Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Nearby allies heal 1d100 repair energy every [60/40/20] seconds for five minutes. Usable once per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Empowering Runes I : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 2.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Covering Shots : Active Ability: (Cooldown [30/20/15] seconds) Toss three daggers in a cyconic arc in front you, each dealing [10d20/15d20/20d20] piercing damage.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 0 No requirements


Craftmaster The Alchemist gains an additional +2 stacking bonus to all crafting skills.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 No requirements



Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods : Alchemist Ranged Stance: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d6] extra force damage and exhaust foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements


Empowering Runes II : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 3.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemical Skillfulness : +1/+2 Use Magic Device

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings I : Passive Bonus: Repairing Runes additionally grants DR [2/4/6]/ Adamantine and stacking [2/4/6] spellpower to nearby allies. 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 4 Requires: repairing runes



Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements



Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Blinding Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d8] extra light damage and blind foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Empowering Runes III : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 4.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 8 Requirement: Empowering Runes II


Exploding Runes I : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d12] extra fire damage with a splash effect that harms foes in a 5 meter radius. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Exploding Runes I : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d12] extra fire damage with a splash effect that harms foes in a 5 meter radius. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 No requirements



Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Freezing Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d10] extra cold damage and slow foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Mobility Runes : Charging your rune arm no longer causes you to move at reduced speed.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Master of the Blades : Passive: Your Blade Barrier spell has +2/+4 maximum caster level.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 No requirements


Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Paralyzing Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to chance to paralyze living creatures for 3 seconds. (No saving throw observed). Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Shouting Runes: Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [5d10] extra sonic damage. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Detect Armor Weakness : Passive Bonus: Ranged attacks reduce enemy Fort by -1 for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to [3/6/10] times.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 16 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 No requirements


Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runic Reserve Activating this Rune is a Spell that restores spell points and cures feeblemind. Major = 105-600

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings II : 4 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Lord of the Blades Teachings I


Audience with the Lord of Blades : Active Ability: (Cooldown 2min 34seconds) Pop off for a war conference with the Lord of Blades, the king of Mournland, returning a few seconds later. Depending on your diplomacy with the Lord of Blades, you may experience effects either favorable or ill, though the conference is always informative. (Diplomacy Check (DC 20)). Note: This is a 1 per day ability.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements

Silverleafeon
10-18-2014, 04:01 AM
The two epic destinies suggested so far are sort of ranged variations of Shirdai and Fury of the Wild with a lot of spin on them.
If anyone has a different perspective (even if its only an idea) feel free to post it.
After all this is a playground of ideas to be brainstormed.

Silverleafeon
10-18-2014, 04:12 AM
Here is round 3 of Alchemist, you will find the changes in red here. The copy on page 1 does not have the changes in red.


Alchemist round 3


Innate abilities

Alchemist Rune Knowledge I : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in Alchemist. Gain +25 sp for each level you posses in Alchemist. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge II: The penalty for moving while charging a rune arm (if any) is cut into half. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by the Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge III: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge IV: Arcane Capacitors: When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 50% slower than normal. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Thaumaturgical Conduits: You have made improvements to the efficiency of your rune arms. Your rune arms build charge a stacking 25% faster. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by the Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier One

Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Alchemist Epic Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.


Repairing Runes : Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Nearby allies heal 1d100 repair energy every [60/40/20] seconds for five minutes. Usable once per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Empowering Runes I : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 2.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Covering Shots : Active Ability: (Cooldown [30/20/15] seconds) Toss three daggers in a cyconic arc in front you, each dealing [10d20/15d20/20d20] piercing damage.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 0 No requirements


Craftmaster The Alchemist gains an additional +2 stacking bonus to all crafting skills. You also gain the Rune Arm feat.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 No requirements



Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods : Alchemist Ranged Stance: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d6] extra force damage and exhaust foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements


Empowering Runes II : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 3.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemical Skillfulness : +1/+2 Use Magic Device

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings : Passive Bonus: Repairing Runes additionally grants DR [2/4/6]/ Adamantine and stacking [2/4/6] spellpower to nearby allies. 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 4 Requires: repairing runes



Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements



Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Blinding Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d8] extra light damage and blind foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Empowering Runes III : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 4.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 8 Requirement: Empowering Runes II


Exploding Runes I : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d12] extra fire damage with a splash effect that harms foes in a 5 meter radius. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Exploding Runes I : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d12] extra fire damage with a splash effect that harms foes in a 5 meter radius. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 No requirements



Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Freezing Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d10] extra cold damage and slow foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Mobility Runes : Charging your rune arm no longer causes you to move at reduced speed.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Master of the Blades : Passive: Your Blade Barrier spell has +2/+4 maximum caster level. 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 Requirements: Lord of the Blades Teachings


Improving the Formula Any potion you consume is cast at a stacking +10 caster level of the current level of the potion.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 No requirements


Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Paralyzing Runes : Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to chance to paralyze living creatures for 3 seconds. (No saving throw observed). Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Shouting Runes: Passive Bonus: While in Runes of the Gods Stance, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [5d10] extra sonic damage. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot Ranged Stances.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Detect Armor Weakness : Passive Bonus: Ranged attacks reduce enemy Fort by -1 for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to [3/6/10] times.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 16 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 No requirements


Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Turbine a more powerful version of Blade Barrier. Unlike Blade Barrier, it also causes damage (but not as much) to enemies who stay standing in it. However, you can't keep it up for as long.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Runic Reserve Activating this Rune is a Spell that restores spell points and cures feeblemind. Major = 105-600

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements

Lord of Blades Teaching II has been removed and replaced with:

Evasion : You gain the Evasion Feat.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Mobility Runes


Body Of War Fuzzy Math {Sev and Varg can sort it out} ~ an effect to temporarily turn you into a Warforged Titan. Similar to Nature's Avatar form, except attack speed isn't reduced (so the +damage doesn't have to be as extreme). You're not as big as some enemy WFTs found around the game; less than twice as tall as a regular player.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements

Failedlegend
10-18-2014, 07:15 AM
Various Tree Suggestions

Failedlegend's Renegade Mastermaker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5445614&viewfull=1#post5445614)
Singular's Arty ED (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5435326&viewfull=1#post5435326)
Silverleafeon's Alchemist (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types?p=5421548&viewfull=1#post5421548)
Failedlegend's Future Arachnotech rebuild (http://www.johnbearross.com/spiderdetail2.jpg)
Failedlegend's Future Battle Engineer rebuild (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/152/1/5/steampunk_cannoneer_by_jubjubjedi-d67bs79.jpg)

Lol the "future rebuilds" only lead to pictures it was just an example :P

I'll post them here when I get time to look through them, also I probably missed some of the suggestions in thread

gwonbush
10-18-2014, 11:20 PM
Personally, I'd change Master of Blades from an increase to the maximum caster level of BB to a BB SLA. Make the ability have a real use for people other than artis, clerics and favored souls. Also, I would presume that it would be easier to code.

Oxarhamar
10-19-2014, 03:49 AM
The two epic destinies suggested so far are sort of ranged variations of Shirdai and Fury of the Wild with a lot of spin on them.
If anyone has a different perspective (even if its only an idea) feel free to post it.
After all this is a playground of ideas to be brainstormed.

I don't have the spare time to write up full ED or tree for Arti

But,

where is the ranged/melee DPS why so much focus on only une arms and casting.

Give us a dual path ED like Divine Crusader to be either ranged or melee DPS or spell casting or a bit of both. Remember Artificer is not purely a caster.

Lengthened EF for one. (as I have already mentioned.

Please no more 7% procs (shiradi) or big spiky damage like (adrenaline) something original and unique if I wanted to use either of those types of ED for an Arti I would just use those ED (I use neither when Given the choice and absolutely hate both of those EDs when I am running in Primal for the sphere XP.

Relem
10-19-2014, 05:57 AM
Shouldn't the Artificer ED be more based around creation? Things like advanced turrets. We've already got EDs for traps, range combat, melee, spell power and spell DCs. Yes it would be nice to have an ED purely dedicated to what an arti needs. But the Artificer is more about creating items to get around a problem then to actually get his/her hands dirty.

mezzorco
10-19-2014, 06:20 AM
Make this new ED count for purpose of calculating your iron defender abilities, i.e. it stacks with artificers levels.

Nature avatar should do the same for druids.

Thayion516
10-19-2014, 09:59 AM
I don't have the spare time to write up full ED or tree for Arti

But,

where is the ranged/melee DPS why so much focus on only une arms and casting.

Give us a dual path ED like Divine Crusader to be either ranged or melee DPS or spell casting or a bit of both. Remember Artificer is not purely a caster.

Lengthened EF for one. (as I have already mentioned.

Please no more 7% procs (shiradi) or big spiky damage like (adrenaline) something original and unique if I wanted to use either of those types of ED for an Arti I would just use those ED (I use neither when Given the choice and absolutely hate both of those EDs when I am running in Primal for the sphere XP.

I Agree, Where is the Melee side? I dont want to cast spells with a cross bow all day. Hey I can do that in Shidari, and that's already built!

Silverleafeon
10-19-2014, 04:27 PM
Lol the "future rebuilds" only lead to pictures it was just an example :P

I'll post them here when I get time to look through them, also I probably missed some of the suggestions in thread

Thanks will adjust links soon.
Appreciate all the help!!!


Personally, I'd change Master of Blades from an increase to the maximum caster level of BB to a BB SLA. Make the ability have a real use for people other than artis, clerics and favored souls. Also, I would presume that it would be easier to code.

Hmm...an often asked for blade barrier sla.
It would be popular.

For a heroic tree it needs to be a capstone type, but it should be a good fit inside an epic destiny.

Either tier 4 or tier 5, depending.
I could see tier 4 and twistable if the cooldown was say 45ish seconds and the sp cost 30+
A tier 5 could have reduced cooldown and cost since it would not be twistable.


I don't have the spare time to write up full ED or tree for Arti

But,

where is the ranged/melee DPS why so much focus on only une arms and casting.

Give us a dual path ED like Divine Crusader to be either ranged or melee DPS or spell casting or a bit of both. Remember Artificer is not purely a caster.

Lengthened EF for one. (as I have already mentioned.

Please no more 7% procs (shiradi) or big spiky damage like (adrenaline) something original and unique if I wanted to use either of those types of ED for an Arti I would just use those ED (I use neither when Given the choice and absolutely hate both of those EDs when I am running in Primal for the sphere XP.

I agree, we need our own direction, something a bit different.

How about this:

Alchemist round 4 preview possible

Runes of the Gods : Alchemist Rune Arm Stance: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Melee, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d6] extra force damage and exhaust foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot or Combat Expertise or Power Attack Stances.
: Requirement Must have a Rune Arm Equipped.

We could adjust the numbers to a higher percentage such as 33% instead of 7%, reducing damage or simply reducing the amount of bonuses available.. Some of them such as blindness would have to be lower amounts. By reducing the amount of them, we could make room for advanced turrets which we definitely need as indicated below.



Shouldn't the Artificer ED be more based around creation? Things like advanced turrets. We've already got EDs for traps, range combat, melee, spell power and spell DCs. Yes it would be nice to have an ED purely dedicated to what an arti needs. But the Artificer is more about creating items to get around a problem then to actually get his/her hands dirty.

Look for this in round 4 of Alchemist.
THANK YOU!


Make this new ED count for purpose of calculating your iron defender abilities, i.e. it stacks with artificers levels.

Nature avatar should do the same for druids.

Look for this in round 4 of Alchemist as well.
THANK YOU!

YES I AGREE NATURE'S AVATAR AS WELL!

Silverleafeon
10-19-2014, 04:33 PM
I Agree, Where is the Melee side? I dont want to cast spells with a cross bow all day. Hey I can do that in Shidari, and that's already built!

Yes, round 4 of Alchemist will address this.

I asked myself, what would a melee want that is not already available.

Since we are zoning out spellcasting, I think we can include the bonus procs to melee.

Question: Is this ok, melee needing to have a rune arm in their off hand?

This would be primarily single weapon fighting.
Is this going to make Swashbuckling too good?
I think the best Swashing is without a rune arm anyway.


Strongly considering a features of: the damage added to your weapons from an equipped rune arm is doubled?
Somewhere in the tree.

Question: how high should the 7% procures be raised to in order to make players happy if we add melee attacks with rune arm?

7% ~ 10% ~ 15% ~ 20% ~ 33% ~ 50%

Question: should there be more defensive procures such as knockdown, anti spellcasting, and the like?

Vellrad
10-19-2014, 05:10 PM
Artificers are caster/marksman hybrid class (or caster/melee), and there is already a caster/marksman hybrid ED, called shiradi.

EDs should never be class based, should be playstyle based.

Singular
10-19-2014, 08:37 PM
Artificers are caster/marksman hybrid class (or caster/melee), and there is already a caster/marksman hybrid ED, called shiradi.

EDs should never be class based, should be playstyle based.

- it's in the wrong sphere (primal opposed to arcane)
- it doesn't buff Int
- it provides druid/ranger spell levels
- it's not optimal for arties in terms of dps output or utility

In other words, Shiradi is clearly not made for artificers to utilize effectively.

Relem
10-19-2014, 09:11 PM
Look for this in round 4 of Alchemist.
THANK YOU!



I sense that the fact you used capitals with an exclamation mark for thank you means that my opinion means nothing to the thread and you just intend to shout it down.

Once I finish my TR train, I will be heading back to Artificer. Hopefully there will be a ED waiting for me that makes it different from the others. So one is watching this thread with interest.

The artificer has magic running through his veins due to draconic heritage; much like the sorcerer the artificer is in a position of potentially great magic combined with extraordinary crafting abilities. Unlike the sorcerer, the artificer forsakes learning to use spells and instead learns to channel raw arcane magic through his veins into a permanent permeable form through magic items. With his enhanced skills he also receives a supernaturally high level of ability with all the skills that he pursues that deal with his crafting expertise; and can make mundane and magical items of varying qualities with ease. Another key difference between sorcerers and artificers is that artificers also are able to shape divine magic by establishing a connection to the magic's deity, but his abilities are wholly innate without requiring the service of the god. Artificers are also able to break down and reclaim components from previously created magical items through a process called rending, and they commonly use this ability to fuel their own creations and projects.[source: D&D wiki:Artificer]

There are plenty of EDs Artis can use for different situations. To me this is what makes the artis stand out from the rest, the fact that they can feel at home in any destiny (except for GMoF because Artificers have enough sense not to go to work in their pyjamas). Lets have an ED that's is true to what an Artificer does and not just another DPS bragging mechanic.

Sorry Vellrad, the ED should be about class, it is about taking a class into something more. It's advanced skills that no mere mortal with only heroic skills would dare try to perform. Otherwise explain GMoF.

Oxarhamar
10-20-2014, 04:46 AM
Thanks will adjust links soon.
Appreciate all the help!!!



Hmm...an often asked for blade barrier sla.
It would be popular.

For a heroic tree it needs to be a capstone type, but it should be a good fit inside an epic destiny.

Either tier 4 or tier 5, depending.
I could see tier 4 and twistable if the cooldown was say 45ish seconds and the sp cost 30+
A tier 5 could have reduced cooldown and cost since it would not be twistable.



I agree, we need our own direction, something a bit different.

How about this:

Alchemist round 4 preview possible

Runes of the Gods : Alchemist Rune Arm Stance: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Melee, Ranged and Thrown attacks have a 7% chance to deal [3d6] extra force damage and exhaust foes for [3] seconds. Can be active at the same time as Archer's Focus or Improved Precise Shot or Combat Expertise or Power Attack Stances.
: Requirement Must have a Rune Arm Equipped.

We could adjust the numbers to a higher percentage such as 33% instead of 7%, reducing damage or simply reducing the amount of bonuses available.. Some of them such as blindness would have to be lower amounts. By reducing the amount of them, we could make room for advanced turrets which we definitely need as indicated below.




Look for this in round 4 of Alchemist as well.
THANK YOU!

YES I AGREE NATURE'S AVATAR AS WELL!

How about instead of 7% chance or even 33% chance we just get ON HIT effects. My Artificer hates random damages

and can we get them not typed as spell type damage to be boosted with spell powers etc.

I understand if the destiny has a path that can be focused on mostly casting, rune arms and spell power but, could we have one that just adds some straight up damage to melee/ranged (without the runearm equipped requirement making the ED useless to THF & Bow based Artificers) I don't play either of those but, know they are options that players like to use.



Increasing Endless fuselage duration would be definite turn on for me.

lets say tier 4 or 5 depending on how OP it is made


Extended Fuselage: increases the duration of endless fuselage by (X)sec.




Let the ED be like a Tree following a couple particular branches will bring Spell power, Spell points, runearm stuffs or following a different set of branches will bring ranged/melee damage (direct damage not procs based on spell power that's caster side stuff)

Silverleafeon
10-20-2014, 09:49 PM
I sense that the fact you used capitals with an exclamation mark for thank you means that my opinion means nothing to the thread and you just intend to shout it down.

No, I used Cap because I was very happy that you reminded me of the forgotten but much needed Super Turrets. The use of Caps was simply to emphasize my thanks. It is sincere and that style has been used elsewhere (perhaps not proper internet etiquite) by me. If I offended I apologize. I do try to listen to you folks, this is a complex thread as we have several major goals here.


Basic notes for Round 4:

Add Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes).
Example, model after Primal's Dryad which can take some damage.

Add something to the effect of "You gain +3 EF. Your Endless Fuselage regenerages 1 per XY seconds. (Perhaps 1 per 2 minutes?)

Convert 7% to something unique. Example ~
Tier 3 Runes of the Gods I ~ does +1 [w] ~ toggle rune arm must be equipped.
Tier 4 Runes of the Gods II ~ rune damage to weapons is doubled
Tier 5 Runes of the Gods III ~ gain +XY melee power, ranged power, and universal spell power.

Create a variation of Shirdai's Nerve Venom with ~ Tier 5 target is knockdown 1/ 3 / 5% . If you are using a greatbow this number is doubled.

Silverleafeon
10-20-2014, 10:01 PM
How about instead of 7% chance or even 33% chance we just get ON HIT effects. My Artificer hates random damages

Thanks, working towards that as seen above.


and can we get them not typed as spell type damage to be boosted with spell powers etc.

Not sure I understand you here.
You want the extra damage to be untyped (so it is boosted by impulse and goes thru most resists?)
Or are you saying something else.


I understand if the destiny has a path that can be focused on mostly casting, rune arms and spell power but, could we have one that just adds some straight up damage to melee/ranged (without the runearm equipped requirement making the ED useless to THF & Bow based Artificers) I don't play either of those but, know they are options that players like to use.

Interesting, is there anyone else that feels this way?
All feedback is good, would love to here perspectives on this.

Should the tree be tied heavily to rune arms, or branch away from this direction?



Increasing Endless fuselage duration would be definite turn on for me.

lets say tier 4 or 5 depending on how OP it is made


Extended Fuselage: increases the duration of endless fuselage by (X)sec.

Yes, I had completely forgotten about EF and the super turret even though they were brought up before. Perhaps all the other projects got me in a tizzle. There are less projects now that some have reached their conclusions, so I can focus more here.



Let the ED be like a Tree following a couple particular branches will bring Spell power, Spell points, runearm stuffs or following a different set of branches will bring ranged/melee damage (direct damage not procs based on spell power that's caster side stuff)

Listens with interest.

I will probably need to reorganize to make room to fit all the forgotten stuff.
Do you feel some of the Cores should be moved to tiers instead?
We could reverse swap some stuff.

Oxarhamar
10-21-2014, 02:41 AM
Thanks, working towards that as seen above.


1)
Not sure I understand you here.
You want the extra damage to be untyped (so it is boosted by impulse and goes thru most resists?)
Or are you saying something else.


2)
Interesting, is there anyone else that feels this way?
All feedback is good, would love to here perspectives on this.

Should the tree be tied heavily to rune arms, or branch away from this direction?


3)
Yes, I had completely forgotten about EF and the super turret even though they were brought up before. Perhaps all the other projects got me in a tizzle. There are less projects now that some have reached their conclusions, so I can focus more here.


4)
Listens with interest.

I will probably need to reorganize to make room to fit all the forgotten stuff.
Do you feel some of the Cores should be moved to tiers instead?
We could reverse swap some stuff.

1) I'd like extra dame to be ranged or melee damage direct damage rather that tied to Spell power.
OR at least be a multi selector Choose either added Melee/ranged damage OR added Force typed Spell power effected damage.
It the case of a multi selector the Melee/range focus Arti could choose direct damage and the Caster Arti could choose the spell typed damage .
Yes I think is Artificer is to get a spell type proc it should be force to follow in the Artificers main focus .

2)I think the tree should have a path that can focus on run arms for caster types but, also a path that focuses on melee/ranged damage independent of that. (I use a rune arm but, never bother firing it is just an added boost to my repeater) buff it is good but, don't make the ED entirely focused on Runearm alone.

3)I am going to try to get a good look at the tree and give more feedback.


I had another Idea for a possible Tier 5 or 6 Obsene Alchemy: You have modified your Crossbows Magazine to accept 1 more bolt that normal. (this effects both Repeating and non repeating crossbows)
This could even make the ED very good for Greatcrossbow wielding Mechanics rogues.

Oxarhamar
10-21-2014, 02:51 AM
No, I used Cap because I was very happy that you reminded me of the forgotten but much needed Super Turrets. The use of Caps was simply to emphasize my thanks. It is sincere and that style has been used elsewhere (perhaps not proper internet etiquite) by me. If I offended I apologize. I do try to listen to you folks, this is a complex thread as we have several major goals here.


Basic notes for Round 4:

Add Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes).
Example, model after Primal's Dryad which can take some damage.

Add something to the effect of "You gain +3 EF. Your Endless Fuselage regenerages 1 per XY seconds. (Perhaps 1 per 2 minutes?)

Convert 7% to something unique. Example ~
Tier 3 Runes of the Gods I ~ does +1 [w] ~ toggle rune arm must be equipped.
Tier 4 Runes of the Gods II ~ rune damage to weapons is doubled
Tier 5 Runes of the Gods III ~ gain +XY melee power, ranged power, and universal spell power.

Create a variation of Shirdai's Nerve Venom with ~ Tier 5 target is knockdown 1/ 3 / 5% . If you are using a greatbow this number is doubled.

These I like better

Thayion516
10-21-2014, 05:44 AM
Yes, round 4 of Alchemist will address this.

I asked myself, what would a melee want that is not already available.

Since we are zoning out spellcasting, I think we can include the bonus procs to melee.

Question: Is this ok, melee needing to have a rune arm in their off hand?

This would be primarily single weapon fighting.
Is this going to make Swashbuckling too good?
I think the best Swashing is without a rune arm anyway.


Strongly considering a features of: the damage added to your weapons from an equipped rune arm is doubled?
Somewhere in the tree.

Question: how high should the 7% procures be raised to in order to make players happy if we add melee attacks with rune arm?

7% ~ 10% ~ 15% ~ 20% ~ 33% ~ 50%

Question: should there be more defensive procures such as knockdown, anti spellcasting, and the like?

To answer your questions. No I would not like to be forced to use another item in addition to b sword and d axe and also be forced into a stance. That's 3 forces. We need more build freedom then that. Item and weapon selection use is one of the most important and emerging aspects of this game.

Attacking with a rune arm is not melee imo. It's ranged.

How about just a straight +3,6,9 melee power on a multi selection for Daxe and Bsword? Then let us choose if we want to use 2wf or swf, and what's in our offhand? That's easy and straight to the point. Also Daxes and Bsword should be selectable for our Bonus feats or a grant in our tree. I like freedom in building because that is the one thing DDO has. The more restraints the less I like the tree.

I think any proc should be on a 10% chance. That's a 19-20 roll. Fair enough to happen often but not OP. Otherwise OC is OP, right? As long as it is a moderate proc. Obviously lightning strike on 10% is too much. Proc damage should be viewed in the terms of damage output over time. How many procs in a min? 5 mins?

Personally I would LOVE to see a large buff in tactical detonation. That ability is right in line with Artificer lore and abilities. I want to throw hand grenades at bad guys!

Failedlegend
10-21-2014, 05:47 AM
Make this new ED count for purpose of calculating your iron defender abilities, i.e. it stacks with artificers levels.

Nature avatar should do the same for druids.

I believe all companions/summons should scale into epic either naturally or with a 21/24 Epic feat that makes your companions level = character level shouldn't limit it to specific EDs

Epic Augment Summoning (Req: Augment Summoning)

Increases any summons or companions to your character level, <possible secondary effect>

Sidenote: I also think Caster levels should be granted with each epic level instead of based on specific EDs, this would actually nullify the need for a Arcane Shiradi clone...than alchemist can be more focused on unique potions, mutagens are various oother alchemy things.

Irongutz2000
10-21-2014, 02:08 PM
No, I used Cap because I was very happy that you reminded me of the forgotten but much needed Super Turrets. The use of Caps was simply to emphasize my thanks. It is sincere and that style has been used elsewhere (perhaps not proper internet etiquite) by me. If I offended I apologize. I do try to listen to you folks, this is a complex thread as we have several major goals here.


Basic notes for Round 4:

Add Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes).
Example, model after Primal's Dryad which can take some damage.

Add something to the effect of "You gain +3 EF. Your Endless Fuselage regenerages 1 per XY seconds. (Perhaps 1 per 2 minutes?)

Convert 7% to something unique. Example ~
Tier 3 Runes of the Gods I ~ does +1 [w] ~ toggle rune arm must be equipped.
Tier 4 Runes of the Gods II ~ rune damage to weapons is doubled
Tier 5 Runes of the Gods III ~ gain +XY melee power, ranged power, and universal spell power.

Create a variation of Shirdai's Nerve Venom with ~ Tier 5 target is knockdown 1/ 3 / 5% . If you are using a greatbow this number is doubled.

These r great ideas and would take them on my arite. +1

Silverleafeon
10-21-2014, 02:21 PM
I am not sure about artificer dogs, because on live I am a druid atm, but druid dogs do gain epic levels when you are a pure druid.
My wolf is level 28 atm.


Credit where credit is due, Failedlegend has come up with a grand idea that pets should have their own:

Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post

- Companion/Hireling Focused Epic destiny (Neutral Sphere?)


And I love that idea, good work Failed!
{sorry no link, its in the restricted section}



Also, a random thought ~ gain X melee and ranged power for every tier your rune arm is charged?
Possibility that might not fly.

Failedlegend
10-21-2014, 05:39 PM
To clarify I meant that their should be a hireling/pet focused ED in general but the companions themselves getting their OWN Epic destiny just like they get their OWN enhancements...that's a MUCH better idea :D

Silverleafeon
11-02-2014, 12:53 PM
Alchemist round 4


Innate abilities

Alchemist Rune Knowledge I : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in Alchemist. Gain +25 sp for each level you posses in Alchemist. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge II: The penalty for moving while charging a rune arm (if any) is cut into half. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge III: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 8 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge IV: Arcane Capacitors: When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 50% slower than normal. This multiplicatively stacks with any other modifiers. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 12 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Thaumaturgical Conduits: You have made improvements to the efficiency of your rune arms. Your rune arms build charge a stacking 25% faster. Any activated abilities ("clickies") on clothing, jewelry, and trinkets used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 16 No requirements


Alchemist Rune Knowledge VI: Rune Arm Overcharge: The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased by one charge tier. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by an Alchemist are cast at a stacking additional +1 caster level.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 20 No requirements



Tier One

Abilities in this tier can be purchased after taking the Alchemist Epic Destiny. All abilities below have 1 rank unless otherwise listed.


Repairing Runes : Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Nearby allies heal 1d100 repair energy every [60/40/20] seconds for five minutes. Usable once per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Empowering Runes I : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 2.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Covering Shots : Active Ability: (Cooldown [30/20/15] seconds) Toss three daggers in a cyconic arc in front you, each dealing [10d20/15d20/20d20] piercing damage.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 0 No requirements


Craftmaster The Alchemist gains an additional +2 stacking bonus to all crafting skills. You also gain the Rune Arm feat.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 0 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 No requirements



Tier Two
After 4 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods I : Alchemist Stance Toggle: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Gain a stacking +1[W]. Can be active at the same time as any other Stance.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements


Empowering Runes II : Your equipped rune arm grants you a stacking +5/10 Universal Spell Power when it is charged above Tier 3.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Alchemical Skillfulness : +1/+2 Use Magic Device

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 4 No requirements


Lord of the Blades Teachings : Passive Bonus: Repairing Runes additionally grants DR [2/4/6]/ Adamantine and stacking [2/4/6] spellpower to nearby allies. 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 4 Requires: repairing runes



Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 4 No requirements



Tier Three
After 8 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods II : Alchemist Stance Toggle: (Cooldown 5 seconds) Rune damage to weapons is doubled. Can be active at the same time as any other Stance.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Runes of Fullisade : You gain +3 EF. Your Endless Fullisade regenerages 1 per XY seconds. (Perhaps 1 per 2 minutes?) If you did not already have Endless Fullisade you do now.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: None


Super Turret I : Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes). Multi-select: Choose the energy type this turret does ~ Fire/Ice/Lighting/Cold. You may have more than 1 Super Turret Summons out at a time.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: None


Improving the Formula Any potion an Alchemist consumes is cast at a stacking +10 caster level of the current level of the potion.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 Requirement: Runes of the Gods


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 8 No requirements



Tier Four
After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Super Turret II : Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes). Multi-select: Choose the energy type this turret does ~ Force/Sonic. You may have more than 1 Super Turret Summons out at a time.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Super Turret I


Mobility Runes : Charging your rune arm no longer causes you to move at reduced speed.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: None


Blade Barrier SLA Cast Blade Barrier as an SLA. Sp Cost 40; Cooldown 40 Seconds.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 No Requirements


Master of the Blades : Passive: You gain +1[W] and the Improved Critical Slashing feat if you don't already have it.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 2 Progression: 12 Requirements: Lord of the Blades Teachings


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 No requirements


Tier Five
After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Runes of the Gods IV : Alchemist Stance Toggle: On damage, 4% chance to knockdown foe. If you are using a greatbow this number is doubled.
EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods III


Super Turret III : Super Turret summons (able to take 30 seconds of an EE foe beating upon it and dish out enough damage to sting foes). Multi-select: Choose the energy type this turret does ~ Light/Negative energy. You may have more than 1 Super Turret Summons out at a time.
EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 12 Requirement: Super Turret II


Detect Armor Weakness : Passive Bonus: Attacks reduce enemy Fort by -1 for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to [5/10/15] times.

EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 16 No requirements


Evasion : You gain the Evasion Feat.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requirement: Mobility Runes


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 No requirements


Tier Six
After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.


Turbine a more powerful version of Blade Barrier. Unlike Blade Barrier, it also causes damage (but not as much) to enemies who stay standing in it. However, you can't keep it up for as long.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No Requirements


Runes of the Gods V : Alchemist Stance Toggle: Gain +X melee power, +Y ranged power, and + Z universal spell power

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 16 Requirement: Runes of the Gods IV


Body Of War Fuzzy Math {Sev and Varg can sort it out} ~ an effect to temporarily turn you into a Warforged Titan. Similar to Nature's Avatar form, except attack speed isn't reduced (so the +damage doesn't have to be as extreme). You're not as big as some enemy WFTs found around the game; less than twice as tall as a regular player. Passive 1 extra use of repairing runes per day.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Dexterity or Intelligence : Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity or Intelligence.

EDP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements

Relem
11-02-2014, 02:16 PM
Concerning Super Turret 2&3.

How about making them multi choice like version 1? Have force and sonic together, with light and negative together. At the moment I can see the logic behind the current set up, both force and light are good against undead. But I've got this feeling that there is something coming that has nothing to do with undead and may expose a weakness in the ED.

HatsuharuZ
11-02-2014, 02:18 PM
It's "Fullisade", not "fuselage". XD

Silverleafeon
11-03-2014, 10:17 AM
Concerning Super Turret 2&3.

How about making them multi choice like version 1? Have force and sonic together, with light and negative together. At the moment I can see the logic behind the current set up, both force and light are good against undead. But I've got this feeling that there is something coming that has nothing to do with undead and may expose a weakness in the ED.


It's "Fullisade", not "fuselage". XD

Ty for both of these, I guess I'll do a round 4 "patch", lol...add the multi-selects and spell correct.

Thanks


EDIT: Patch put in place ;) thanks for feedback, all thoughts are welcome. I am trying to give this thread more attention now.
Hopefully I can get around to a sample enhancement tree next...

Relem
11-03-2014, 11:23 AM
The only thing I'd probably change now is some of the wording. Instead of "used by the artificer", change it to "used by the character". But it seems like a sound ED, good all rounder with no glaring weakness or over powering strengths.

Damn it... I want to do a Turbine with a Super Turret now!!!! The ultimate doughnut of destruction.

Silverleafeon
11-03-2014, 11:58 AM
The only thing I'd probably change now is some of the wording. Instead of "used by the artificer", change it to "used by the character".

Thanks, I missed those copy and paste errors.

Removed any artificer references and replaced with "an Alchemist".


But it seems like a sound ED, good all rounder with no glaring weakness or over powering strengths.

Woot, makes me happy.

Credit goes to you folks!
Without you, it would not be nearly as nice.


Damn it... I want to do a Turbine with a Super Turret now!!!! The ultimate doughnut of destruction.

LOL, indeed, that would tempted me to change my final build...

Silverleafeon
11-23-2014, 02:00 PM
I think maybe this feature in the Alchemist ED needs changing slightly:

Alchemist Rune Knowledge I : Passive Bonus: You gain Artificer, Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard Caster Levels equal in your level in Alchemist. You gain rune arm and iron defender artificer levels equal to your levels in Alchemist. Gain +25 sp for each level you posses in Alchemist. All potions, scrolls, and wands used by an Alchemist have their caster levels increased by an additional stacking 1.

EDP Cost: 0 Ranks: Automatic Progression: 0 No requirements

Silverleafeon
11-29-2014, 10:31 AM
Renegade Mastermaker

Core 1 Construct Essence - Gain 50% healing from Repair spells but suffer a -25% penalty to positive energy healing. In addition, you now take 50% damage from rust effects. This healing increase by 10% for every Core ability (penalty remains at -25%), Gain Living construct type (as well as your current) +1 Repair Spellpower per pt. spent in tree.
Core 3 Malfunctioning Constructs: Deal ?d? physical damage in an 30ft AOE for 30 seconds
Core 6 Auto-Repair Systems (2d4 repair (+1 per caster level) every 2 seconds, Duration: 60 seconds + 4 seconds per character level)
Core 12 Repair Mod, Mass
Core 15 A "repair" version of True Rez (SLA) (Rebuild?)
Core 18 Mass Recon
Core 20 Passive: +2 Int/Con, +40 Repair Amp (for a total of 150%)

Active Choose 1:

- Makeshift Mechsuit: Until you run out of temp HPs you gain enter a Titan-esque form (effect is simialar tensor's effect except metallic w/ blue glow lines and solid)- whilst this form is active you gain +X Str . Xx10 Temp HPs ,+X PRR(x = Int Score) ,all elemental damage is reduced by half and you melee attacks gain knockdown on hit (fort save based on int).This can only be used once per rest.

- Giant Ballista: Your X-Bow (any type) gains the max charge damage of your rune arm (and all it's effects) until you fire X shots (x= int score) or 2 minutes have passed during this effect you move at half your regular speed but do not need to reload as the bolts appear magically, your rune arm eill not charge during this ability. This can only be used once per rest.


Tier 1
- Battle Fist or Palm Shot (see below for details)
- Rune Arm Tinkering: Your Rune arm gains +1/2/3 DCs
- Technological Terror: Will Save vs. UMD check - Failed save = fear, successful save = shaken
- Improving the Formula: Any potion you consume is cast at your artificer level or the level of the potion +3, whichever is greater.
- Curious (+1/2/3 UMD, Spellcraft, Repair)


Tier 2
- Improved Battle Fist or Palm Shot
- Master Crafter: ANY crafting you do requires 15% less materials
- Metal Plating: Multi-selector allowing choice of Composite, Mithral or Adamantine Plating (as WF Feats) and allows use of docents
- Inspiration: Multi-selector (see "Inventions" below)
- Intelligent Design - Add your character level to your constructs Attack,Intim, Bluff, PRR, MRR and AC as well as +6 to all Stats.


Tier 3
- Masterwork Battle Fist or Palm Shot
- Filtration System: +2/4/6 Fort Save, Underwater Action @ Rank 2, No fail on 1 @ Rank 3
- Inscribed Armor removes ASF penalty from plating
- Further Inspiration: choose a 2nd "Invention"
- Str, Con or Int


Tier 4
- Perfect Battle Fist or Palm Shot
- Dual Minded: +2/4/6 Will Save, Immune to Ability Damage/Negative Levels @ Rank2, No fail on 1 @ Rank 3
- Imbued Rune arm :You have become one with your rune arm causing it to automatically fire when it hits max charge (this is a toggle)
- Turret SLA of some sort
- Str, Con or Int


Tier 5
- Rocket Punch or Missile Launcher: Requires PBF or PPS (see below for details)
- Master Builder: Your Arty construct's level is now your character level (epic included)
- Force Shield: Your MRR and MRR Cap increase by X when wielding your rune arm, also every time you charge your rune arm to max (sitting at max does nothing) you gain THP = your max charge level x your int mod, also your MRR is doubled vs. Traps.
- Evocation focus: +1 to all evocation spells.
- Nano Skinmeld: +20/40/60% to you and your constructas Fortification



Inventions (feel free to make suggestions)

- Caltrops. X% Slow effect and 1d4 per caster level piercing damage with no save in a 30ft area for 30+1 per caster level seconds. Oozes and incorporeal targets are immune to this.
- Vacuum: Toggle, destorys all nearby breakable and loots any purple bags/items on the ground except BTC stuff.
- "World Enlarger": Makes you incredibly tiny causing you to gain +40 Hide/MS and Sheds all aggro until you attack
- Rocket Booster: Featherfall effect & +40 jump for 1/minute per caster level
- Water Striders: Walk on water for 30 seconds
- Water Scooter: Passive Increase to swim speed by 100%
- Rocket Powered Roller Skates: Toggle: Untyped (or "Tech") Increase to movement speed by 10% (100% in public areas)
- Decoy: Creates a believable copy of you that immediately gains the top aggro slot until it dies (starts with the same as your max HP)


Weapon

Palm Shot - Alternative choice to Battle fist follows same progression except for tier one which counts as either GX-Bow or Repeater (based on whatever you have equipped) and your GX-Bow/Repeaters gain Int-to-damage.
Battle Fist - Grants profieciency with handwraps, uses SWF (since you wield a rune arm in other hand) this counts as a bludgeoning weapon AND unarmed (in PnP it was considered natural AND manufactured weapon making it special) for any effects such as improved weapon finesse. The "Arm" can be improved through "Modifications"
Note: This a multi-selector for a Heavy OR Light Battlefist with the former being 1d8 base but is not finessable the latter being 1d6

Tier 1 - Your Unarmed "Battlefist" Attacks are considered 1d6 Mithral & Finessable (or 1d8 & Adamantine if Heavy)
Tier 2 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector)
Tier 3 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector), +1 Crit Range
Tier 4 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector), +1 Crit Threat
Tier 5 - +0.5w, +1 Mod (multi-selector), Unique Attack
Battlefist: Rocket uppercut +3[w] prone & stunned on failed reflex save uses int for DC, balance check to get back up
Palm shot: Missile - ???


Modification Ideas (please any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated)

Battle Fist
Active) Branding iron - X% Vunerability on target touch attack
Passive) Electric Gauntlet - Adds a lesser lightning based effect (5% chance to do char level D4 shock damage on hit)
Active) Powered Grapple - Holds an opponent in place. Looks and acts just like Hold Person spell, but with a fort save.

Palm Shot
Active) Rain of Fire - 30ft AOE regular ranged attack vs. all targets (including secondary efefcts on rune arm and weapon)

Both
Passive) Unstable Coolant - Percent chance freeze guard. 5% freeze target upon being hit, fort save
Passive) Grounding Harnesses - Electric Damage immunity (or possibly even healing)
Active) Grapple Hook - Flings you towards target enemy dealing +3{w} damage upon "collison"
Passive) Force Deflection - Retruns any magic missles or similar spells or SLA back at caster

I am very impressed with this, trying to find where I can improve but feeling its the sort of thing Sev could take to the next level.

Happy Thanksgiving/Holidays everyone, whenever you celebrate it.

Failedlegend
11-29-2014, 06:51 PM
I am very impressed with this, trying to find where I can improve but feeling its the sort of thing Sev could take to the next level.

Happy Thanksgiving/Holidays everyone, whenever you celebrate it.

I'm glad you like it...some suggestions for inventions or mods would be helpful :)

Oxarhamar
12-03-2014, 06:14 AM
I'm glad you like it...some suggestions for inventions or mods would be helpful :)

Just my honest feedback don't take it as criticism.

As a full time repeater Artificer
I like Balista & Palm Shot. Not sure I'd go pure to capstone this one once per rest is kinda uninteresting. Save the big bang for that one moment then meh rather see it toned down and have a cooldown instead.

Everything else in the Tree is just enhancement point tax to get those for me.

construct essence @ tier 1 core is a big bummer. I Like to run in any/all races on Artificer and even on a WF or Bladeforged I don't like then -%pos healing.

Vaidan
01-16-2015, 10:42 AM
Regarding the third tree for artificers, I have an interesting idea taken from necro: Fleshwright.


Basically, buff the construct escence on fleshy arties, but also focus on giving "Biological Modifications" to one's dog, and buffing stats in general. Maybe an enhancement later that makes the dog heal from lightning. Possibly you can "raise" party members with shock type magic.

Basically, this would be the durable/ dog tree, with some other interesting stuff in there too. Thoughts?

Failedlegend
01-16-2015, 03:28 PM
Regarding the third tree for artificers, I have an interesting idea taken from necro: Fleshwright.


Basically, buff the construct escence on fleshy arties, but also focus on giving "Biological Modifications" to one's dog, and buffing stats in general. Maybe an enhancement later that makes the dog heal from lightning. Possibly you can "raise" party members with shock type magic.

Basically, this would be the durable/ dog tree, with some other interesting stuff in there too. Thoughts?

Sounds like Renegade Master Maker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448055-Third-Artificier-Tree-Lost-Trees-Project-along-with-an-ED-for-Artificer-types/page7?p=5445614#post5445614) actually. As for the lightning healing the construct I'd say that should go somewhere in the Doggy Tree if they get around to updating that. It IS a really cool idea though. Oh and I already have a reviving "invention" in my version of the tree (it's quoted a couple posted above and linked earlier in this post)

Vaidan
01-17-2015, 11:08 AM
Maybe also have the improvements to construct escence deal both with positive and repair healing :D

Failedlegend
01-17-2015, 04:09 PM
Maybe also have the improvements to construct essence deal both with positive and repair healing :D

By taking on construct essence (and the rest of the cores) your basically turning yourself into a half-construct (and eventually near full construct) gaining Pos heal amp makes no sense.

Holybird
03-10-2015, 08:47 AM
Artificer ED confirmed (If I understood right)! https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/457031-You-know-the-game-is-not-balanced-properly-when/page11#post5560156

Sehenry03
03-10-2015, 07:52 PM
Artificer ED confirmed (If I understood right)! https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/457031-You-know-the-game-is-not-balanced-properly-when/page11#post5560156

"No shared tree. Steelstar would kill me. He's been dying to work on the third Artificer tree. And an Artificer ED for that matter."

That tells me that Steel wants to work on it but hasn't been allowed to yet. It could mean it could happen in 6 months or 6 years. Sev/Cor have put exactly ZERO interest in fixing Arty's so I am going with at least a year or more. It is so frustrating to know that they keep "fixing" classes that are not that bad off especially compared to the Arty. Rogues were in a "decent" state and they get a pass first. Then he mentioned Druids/fighters and both are in MUCH better shape then Arty's...Druids especially. They are a WHOLE lot better in Epics then Arty's are yet they apparently are due for a "fix" next.

Again just really frustrating that the class I am looking forward to the most to play in Epics and is the weakest in Epics is pretty much being passed over in every respect by Turbine and we can't even get a mention from them =(

F2PPremiumLeech
05-28-2015, 04:20 AM
I'm not sure if this is the right place to write my thoughts but here goes anyway:

I like that Super Turret proposal you have here. Having ability to choose element dmg type of your turret has been on my wishlist for long, especially since different runearms offer different types of spellpower bonuses. Has nice synergy with Energy Burst if you can focus on boosting only one type of elemental spellpower.

Next thing is a bit more thematic. In quests related to artificers you see a lot of golems and magefire turrets. I've always been intrigued about the possibility of artificers being able to summon them. Maybe ED core ability? Could give a hireling/pet like command bar to allow control of them. Or perhaps artificer could take on "golem form" like druids do with animals?

Arkai
05-28-2015, 05:52 AM
Rogues were in a "decent" state and they get a pass first. (


The old mechanic tree was, by far, one of the worst trees in the entire game, so your "decent" is very accurate :)

Oxarhamar
06-06-2015, 10:17 PM
The old mechanic tree was, by far, one of the worst trees in the entire game, so your "decent" is very accurate :)

Disagree, the old Mechanic tree was light years ahead of Battle Engineer as far as Repeater builds went so if you think Mech was bad then Artificer is seriously gimped.