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GlassJaw
08-26-2014, 09:29 PM
Hi all. I've been away from the game for a 6 months or so but thinking about jumping back in. I have a paladin that I want to TR into Ranger since I haven't played the class all that much.

I definitely want to go Elf and be pure Ranger and but I'm going back and forth on whether to focus on Str or Dex.

Overall I'm thinking a hybrid of melee/ranged and focus on Deepwood Sniper and Tempest. Most of the enhancements and abilities seem to favor a Dex build but Elven Grace is really expensive to build towards.

Thanks!

Saekee
08-26-2014, 09:38 PM
It is easier to buff Str--Ram's might does more for Str as well. You also get the whole TWF line without the need for high dex & you get Bow Str for free. You therefore do not need a decent dex at all. The epic lines that will interest you also offer Str & Con buffs, not Dex.

I play Dex builds but I like stealthy weaponized monks.

Enoach
08-26-2014, 10:14 PM
Yes, there are a lot of ways to increase Strength - more so than Dexterity so there is some flexibility

First as a Ranger you will have access to TWF and IPS without needing to meet the Dexterity Requirements

However, you still want Dexterity for your reflex save, especially if you are going the 9 levels for Evasion.

Based on what it sounds like you want to do, I would lean more towards Strength, but I would not skimp on Dexterity. Possibly starting with a 16 str [10 AP] (all level-ups) and a 16 Dex [6 AP] (for elf same cost as 14 Dex on other races). This will leave you 12 AP to 20 AP (28 to 36 pt build) for other attributes such as Constitution and Wisdom. You could also start with 18 Dex for 10 AP and still do level-ups in strength.

Grailhawk
08-26-2014, 10:25 PM
Rangers are better off Strength based.

GlassJaw
08-26-2014, 10:51 PM
Well that's 3 votes for Strength so far.

I'm finding the feats a bit trickier for a Str-based build. Here's what I have so far:

1. Power Attack
2. Cleave
3. Great Cleave
4. Imp Crit Slashing
5. Imp Crit Ranged
6. Precision
7. Point Blank Shot

It would be nice to have room for Dodge, Dragonmark, Extend, and/or Empower Healing. For a Dex build, I could drop the PA/C/GC chain for 3 of those.

mezzorco
08-27-2014, 03:19 AM
Well that's 3 votes for Strength so far.

I'm finding the feats a bit trickier for a Str-based build. Here's what I have so far:

1. Power Attack
2. Cleave
3. Great Cleave
4. Imp Crit Slashing
5. Imp Crit Ranged
6. Precision
7. Point Blank Shot

It would be nice to have room for Dodge, Dragonmark, Extend, and/or Empower Healing. For a Dex build, I could drop the PA/C/GC chain for 3 of those.

Remember that, with incoming U23, overwhelming critical will not have a str requirement, nor the g.cleave feat (only impr crit).
Cleave and g.cleave do not perform well while TWF, I suggest you to simply rely on Dance of Death (now with only 15 sec cooldown).
Also, you don't need extend metamagic, because all your buffs will last 20 minutes or more, depending on ED.

I just made a pure ranger elf yesterday, 32pt build with 20 dex and 16 con.
If I had 34/36 I would put rest into wis.

Feats will be:
1. Dodge
2. Precision
3. Point blank shot
4. IC slashing
5. IC ranged
6. empower heal
7. any (prob lightning reflexes)

blerkington
08-27-2014, 06:40 AM
Hi,

I think fitting at least one metamagic feat, like empowered healing, in is a good idea. It will make your self healing much better. That's one of the major strengths of the ranger.

If you are planning on taking the racial weapon enhancement line, IC pierce might be better than IC slash. Although rapiers and scimitars are both decent weapons, rapiers are paired with longbows, whereas scimitars are paired with shortbows.

You may also find your HP a little low in heroics if this character doesn't take toughness and doesn't have a decent selection of HP boosting gear. If you are hoping to elite streak to 20 then having a decent amount of HP will help a lot, especially if you plan to melee a lot along the way.

You can change your feat choices around if you take toughness now and later on want to swap it out. Just be careful not to take it at a very low level because that may limit what you can swap it for later.

Also, if you can afford it, the elven dragonmark for invisibility and displacement is really nice. If you think you have some room in your feats and AP, then that might be worth considering too.

Good luck with it.

Thanks.

Wipey
08-27-2014, 06:49 AM
If you go Elf for little flavour and Dragonmark, might as well get maximum potential from it, so Extend.
Quicken + Empower Heal or Maximize is non negotiable.

I will probably swap PA for Precision ( let's get real, turning Precision for Manyshot every time, turning PA on after must be such pita, maybe okay if you have some fancy gaming mouse with macros ), don't have high hopes for Tempest specials ( didn't try Ranger on Lama, too busy with Pally ) to replace Cleaves ( even with all the negatives for twf, you have to have aoe ).

Eth
08-27-2014, 06:55 AM
Both are viable.
The major buffs you miss out when dex-based: +2 from Ram's might, 5 from primal scream

Currently Dex has the better ingame named items (+11 on Dumatoins, +4 insightful on Mystic Eidolons).
Though U23 will have some very nice goggles with +11/+4 for Str.

Also Overwhelming crit. only requires improved critical with the next update, so no need for Str for that anymore.

Dex also limits your weapon choices, but thunderforged scimitars are very strong.

Eth
08-27-2014, 06:58 AM
I will probably swap PA for Precision ( let's get real, turning Precision for Manyshot every time, turning PA on after must be such pita, maybe okay if you have some fancy gaming mouse with macros ), don't have high hopes for Tempest specials ( didn't try Ranger on Lama, too busy with Pally ) to replace Cleaves ( even with all the negatives for twf, you have to have aoe ).

If you replace cleaves, quickdraw becomes a must, IMO.
Especially if you want to use action-boost + Dance of Death.

By the way I've been using Dance of Death on live for months now (yes, with the 1 min cooldown). When it works, it's awesome.
Biggest problem with it is, that you must hit on activation or it goes on cooldown and doesn't activate (that the case for all tempest on click abilities).

Wipey
08-27-2014, 07:10 AM
I see. Dance of Death is 6 ap though, you wouldn't believe how limiting is spending 20 or so points in any racial tree.
Also, scimmies, rapiers, I think those Liches in Necro had like 37 blunt DR. So yay.
Full time Precision seems like a really good idea.

Bah Rangers, everybody will be playing Paladins !

arcattaii
08-27-2014, 07:13 AM
I vote for DEX.

I've been playing STR pure tempest ranger for a long time, but recently I lesser TR'ed into DEX.

In fact, you won't lose too much 'main' ability, because you are an elf, 2 DEX from start, 2 DEX from racial enhancement and 2 DEX from tempest capstone.
Commonly, you only lose 2 STR from Ram, 5 STR from Primal Scream. Titan's Grip is a very short duration buff and Madstone.. meh

Besides this, the most important reason for me to choose DEX is for Reflex save. It's already very hard to get a decent Reflex save for EE contents with DEX based builds, not to mention STR based builds.

And for feats, I agree with Wipey: Quicken + Empower Heal is a must. But Maximize only affect CSW, if you are feat-tight, drop it.

Eth
08-27-2014, 07:21 AM
I see. Dance of Death is 6 ap though, you wouldn't believe how limiting is spending 20 or so points in any racial tree.
Also, scimmies, rapiers, I think those Liches in Necro had like 37 blunt DR. So yay.
Full time Precision seems like a really good idea.

Bah Rangers, everybody will be playing Paladins !

Currently went with 4 AP (3 targets instead of 4). Dance of Death is not like cleave. It's more like 140 degree in front of your toon. Takes some pratice to get used to positioning to max it's potential.
Although with only 15 secs cooldown you can just spam it, so 4th target might be worth it for the odd case where that actually happens.

Precision over PA - definitely. The only reason why I run PA is stupid blitz charge mechanic and the need for momentum swing. This all goes away with next update, so dropping PA for precision and both cleaves (quickdraw and ...not sure what to take for second feat yet).
On my build I can still pick up exalted cleave from pally.

Also yes to blunt weapons. Warhammers are love :D

Wipey
08-27-2014, 07:28 AM
I know some uber heal amp Rangers like Teh_Troll's Ranger Mafia use Quicken+Maximize and some scrolls. No need for Coccoon to supplement their Cures. Different approach - BIG cures and saving sp with scrolls out of combat.

I know I HAVE to use Both CSW and Cocoon on elven Tempest without any past lives and such so Empower Heal for both is better for me.
Eth plays the same, not BIG expensive heals, but combination of both depending on danger.

I can see how you can go without Cocoon and go with Maximize.
For example I capped my Pally last week, human ( 2 Pally lives, Kotc amp, monk amp ), 350 "character sheet" Devotion ( ! ), CSW hits for 450- 550 with Empower Heal in Crusader. It's so good I want to cry, definitely possible to ditch Cocoon and going with Maximize.

blerkington
08-27-2014, 08:58 AM
Hi,

One thing which I should have said in my last post is that the best feat choices for heroic levelling and endgame play might be different. I think precision is a great feat for endgame content, and my ranger uses it there, but I think power attack might be the better choice for heroic levelling.

It's quite a lot harder to get your fort bypass to a usefully high amount in the heroic levels, and the five extra points per swing from PA might be better on a character who isn't doing (and therefore could be missing out on) a whole lot of sneak attack damage.

Thanks.

Talon_Moonshadow
08-27-2014, 09:04 AM
Ref save.

unbongwah
08-27-2014, 09:49 AM
See my Elven Ranger thread.