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Lessagan
08-24-2014, 04:04 PM
Greetings all. Returning player from back when Eberron Unlimited was part of the title. I've done a bit of homework and am feel somewhat at a loss for the additions to character development. Not only new classes and races but also the Enhancements, Epic Levels and countless buffs and nerfs that the existing roster undoubtedly experienced during my absence.

I know there are quite a few more recent topics about battle clerics. However, even after a bit of browsing, Goggling and even some time playing around in a Character Planner, I still am lost in attempt to rebuild my fav character (which either got wiped while I was away for so long, or I just somehow misplaced). Lessagan is a female Dwarf 18 Cleric / 2 Fighter. I took a level of Fighter at 2 and I think the other was at 13 but idk? She wields a (usually Holy) Great Axe and casts spells between swings to either heal and support herself and allies, or do more damage to the enemy.

28 pt build
Str - High Priority. Due to melee focus of the build. Distinctly remember melee attacks being good enough for a few Barbs to take notice.
Wis - High Priority. Cleric, savvy?
Con - Med-High Priority.
Cha - Med Priority. Turn Undead is really handy once it does more than just "turn undead" ^^
Dex - Low Priority. Minimum skill points to meet basic requirements on gear, feats, etc.
Int - Low Priority. A few points early on for SP gains and no modifier penalty...

Skills - I know that Concentration
Concentration - Those spells need to work, ESPECIALLY when being punched in the face.
Heal - Just yes.
Balance - Bad things tend to happen when healers are on laying down on the job.
Diplomacy - Because you're not squishy... but you're not THE tank either.
Tumble? - For when Diplomacy breaks down?
Use Magic Device? - Yes, no, maybe?
Spell Craft?
Spot?
Listen?
Search?
Haggle?

Feats -
Oh gawds I haven't the slightest idea how I built these!?
All I remember is not being able to get "Pure" but otherwise having access to everything a group/raid healer should need while still being a competent solo melee hybrid.

Any ideas, advice, suggestions as to the best point distributions and at what levels certain things should be done. For example - don't take second level of Fighter prior to reaching the BAB prereq for I2HF ^^
What feats are must have for cleric?
Devote what's left to increasing melee damage and survivability.
Feats that might be tempting on paper but are a complete waste in game?

Appreciate any suggestions or insights you all might have to offer. Please remember that this is going to be a "bottom of the barrel" build for now. First character, no account perks beyond what a free player gets... so we can forget about 32+ point builds and prestige.

Battlehawke
08-24-2014, 05:33 PM
Take a look at the link in my signature for some ideas. Braegan's build titled False Hope is a good one to look at. While that one is a FVS/Pal, it gives a lot of good ideas.

And Welcome Back!

Thalone
08-24-2014, 08:22 PM
Tangent: characters shouldn't get deleted for inactivity. Are you sure you logged on to the correct server?

On topic. Heal is not a particularly useful skill. Each skill point will give you a 1% bigger result. So if you're healing for 100, it ends up being... 101. With 23 skill points put in it's a 23% boost for you investment. It's not going to make or break your character. Tumble usually does not require more than one trained rank for use (buffs should overcome any penalties you get from, for example, heavy armour). I find UMD extremely useful for every class, though some people will argue that since it's usually for Heal/Raise scrolls and you get those natively on a Cleric, it's not really necessary on a divine. I would argue that Invisibility, Fire Shield, Teleport, Blur, Displacement, and GH scrolls are very useful for divines. Of course I agree with you that Balance is useful.

On your stat allocation: INT does not grant SP to Clerics; Clerics get bonus SP from WIS. INT is useful if you want to train skills though. I can't think of why an INT modifier penalty would matter for a cleric. CHA grants you extra turns, which fuel your Bursts and Aura for "free" healing. Were you planning on a mainly melee focus or a DC-casting one? Clerics are rather feat-starved and on a 28pt build you may not have enough to do both effectively on elite difficulty quests. You need minimal wisdom to cast (though your DCs will be terrible) if you want to go the melee route, and some spells work almost as well on a melee divine as they do on a caster (Blade Barrier vs. nonevasion melees, buffs and healing spells). Depending on your answer people may be able to give you more specific advice.

unbongwah
08-26-2014, 02:05 PM
Hi, welcome back to DDO. :)

The basics for battle clerics haven't changed very much. You focus on a mix of melee DPS, survivability, heals, and buffs. Since I presume you're looking for a build to LR your existing cleric into (if you find it!), let's start with a 28pt build based on the class split you posted and go from there.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Dwarf Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 411
Spell Points: 1275
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 5
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 12 14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Divine Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Intense Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Intense Healing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Unyielding Sovereignty (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Martyrdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Incredible Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Incredible Healing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Cure Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Reactive Heal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Feat-wise this is basically identical to the Radiant Titan (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427304-Radiant-Titan-revisited-Clr17-Pal2-Ftr1-melee-healing-spec), although minus the pally splash.

Since you probably weren't around for the Enhancement (http://ddowiki.com/page/Enhancements) overhaul last year, a brief rundown of the new-n-improved cleric PrEs (recommend you read the wiki page for more details):

Radiant Servant: this is still the healing-focused PrE; I spend the majority of APs here for Radiant Burst, Positive Energy Aura, etc.
Warpriest: this is the melee-focused PrE. Divine Might now converts your CHA bonus into an Insightful STR bonus. Smite Foe w/Weakness is another DPS boost. Inflame is an AoE action boost, so it's great for when you're up close with the rest of the melees. Ameliorating Strike procs a free AoE heal effect every time you use Smite Foe; so combined with your auras & bursts, you get a lot of healing without burning any mana.
Divine Disciple: this is the caster DPS PrE; you choose to specialize in either light / Evocation spells or dark / Necromancy spells. If you were making a WIS-based caster build, this is where I would spend most APs.


Primary downsides to this build are low Reflex saves and DPS might be a bit lacking. Fortunately, U23 means armor will provide more protection against magical effects (MRR); and THF will be getting a boost from the new Melee Power system.

As for skills, a brief rundown:

UMD: still one of the most useful skills in DDO; lets you bypass gear restrictions and (in your case) use arcanes scrolls & wands for buffage (e.g., Blur, Displacement, Flame Shield, etc.). Problem is it's a cross-class skill on a cleric, so you need to decide if you'll invest the effort into boosting it via gear & buffs as well as skill pts.
Concentration: let you cast spells and use scrolls without being interrupted when taking damage. I always max it out on my casters; some people skip it and rely on Quicken (does nothing for scrolls, though).
Spellcraft: this boosts most DPS Spellpowers (namely light and all of the elements). Again, I max it out on DPS casters; it's less useful on this build, though.
Heal: boosts Positive & Negative (Necro) Spellpower. Worth investing in on a healer, but if you're pt-constrained, I tend to skip it; you'll have plenty of Devotion Spellpower already.
Diplomacy: aggro mgmt is always a bit wonky in DDO. For a while I took Diplo on my casters, but since then I've dropped it; just doesn't get enough usage to merit the skill pts (or gear slot for +Diplo item).
Balance: yes, you will want to boost this, although I rarely max it out. Note that it's also a pre-req for the new SWF feats (http://ddowiki.com/page/Single_Weapon_Fighting). [I've had a few ideas for SWF+orb-based caster builds, but nothing I've really fleshed out yet.]

unbongwah
08-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Forgot to mention Epic Destinies (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies), which are the real meat of customizing your char in epic lvls. I recommend starting with Divine Crusader, which has some nice synergies with battleclerics; in particular I would max out the Consecration line ASAP and be sure to pick up Celestial Champion.

Gear: the easiest epic gear to farm up are from Eveningstar Commendations (http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendations); in particular, I would go for the cleric set (http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendation:_Clerics_of_Amaunator) (armor / ring / necklace) for the -10% SP cost reduction and the PDK gloves (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Gauntlets) (STR / CON / 30% heal amp) ASAP.

Lessagan
08-27-2014, 01:21 PM
Thanks all for the replies. Sorry it took so long for me to check back. I spent some more time playing with the planner. So here's what I've come up with so far taking in to account the suggestions here as well as continued research of other topics and sites. Again just a reminder that I'm planning under the assumption that I won't have access to Tomes.

Starting Stats
Str - 15
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 10 (for additional Skill Point per level)
Wisdom - 16
Charisma - 8

First two increases given to Str for Feat requirements, everything else dumped into Wisdom. 2 Con from Dwarf Enhancements and potentially Char/Wis from Cleric Enhancements but idk yet

Feats - I think I did okay here
Follower of the Sovereign Host
Power Attack
Cleave
Maximize Spell
Two Handed Fighting
Great Cleave
ITHF
Quicken Spell
GTHF
Improved Critical: Slashing
Toughness
Empower Healing Spell
ED - Holy Strike
Empower Spell
ED - Guardian Angel

Skills - I have no idea how to split the points here.. 1 full point of Tumble will certainly come in handy. How important is Concentration with Quicken Spell? How much Balance, Diplomacy and Concentration is needed to be worth investing in the first place?
Tumble 1
Concentration?
Balance?
Diplomacy?
Heal?

Enhancements - These didn't even exist last time I played so... yeah this could be really bad -.- Any suggestions on points that I could shift around or where to spend any left overs (which there should be two or three of) would be great. Not going to bother listing the pre-req skills that follow in a progression but obviously they are being taken to reach the end of the line if stated below.

Dwarf: Axe Training, all Core enhancements, possibly Throw Your Weight Around and using Armor Mastery to meet point requirements to advance up the tree.
Radiant Servant - Positive Energy Shield. Endless Turning, Mighty Turn, Positive Energy Aura, Cure Focus. Altruism 1/3 as a dump to progress up the tree and possibly Divine Health (worth it?)
Warpriest - Sanctuary, Sacred Touch, Smite Weakness, Inflame (+boosts), Ameliorating Strike. Divine Might (possibly Burden) as dump skill to meet requirements.
Leftovers - Extra points potentially put to use in the Stat Nodes for added Wis/Cha/Str. I considered dipping into Kensei but didn't see anything that would be particularly helpful there.

Scrabbler
08-27-2014, 01:49 PM
Enhancements - These didn't even exist last time I played so
Enhancements existed long before the words "Eberron Unlimited" were part of the title.



First two increases given to Str for Feat requirements, everything else dumped into Wisdom.
Remember that tomes count for feat requirements, and it is pretty easy to get a +2 tome at around 15-20th level.


GTHF
Improved Critical: Slashing
Improved Critical is powerful and you should try to get it fast...


Altruism 1/3 as a dump to progress up the tree and possibly Divine Health (worth it?)
Altruism 3/3 is probably worthwhile for healing spells. Divine Health is not even slightly worth it; you can cure a disease super-quickly, so you don't need immunity.


Tumble 1 Concentration? Balance? Diplomacy? Heal?
You seem to have left Spellcraft out of the skills you're considering. It is useful for Blade Barrier, Divine Punishment, and other damaging magic. Diplomacy has almost no value, except for spell quest interactions and Shiradi tea.

unbongwah
08-27-2014, 03:14 PM
Str - 15
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 10 (for additional Skill Point per level)
Wisdom - 16
Charisma - 8

First two increases given to Str for Feat requirements, everything else dumped into Wisdom. 2 Con from Dwarf Enhancements and potentially Char/Wis from Cleric Enhancements but idk yet
I don't understand why you're putting so much into WIS if you're making a battlecleric. If you're not making a DC-based caster, then you only need WIS 19 in order to cast lvl 9 spells; though you might as well make it 20 for the extra SPs and +1 Will saves. But remember that gear counts towards your spellcasting requirement: by lvl 20 you should have WIS +7 and Insightful WIS +2 items; by endgame you'll have WIS +10 Insightful WIS +3. Furthermore, by gimping your CHA, you're not only reducing the number of Turn Undeads you get to power your auras & bursts, you're also reducing the STR bonus from Div Might, which is pretty important.

Lessagan
08-28-2014, 04:08 AM
@unbongwah

Thanks for the info regarding the Wis requirements for spells. I had let Cha fall away figuring that the enhancements to Turn Undead would limit the usefulness of 2-3 extra Cha mod. You also make a good argument in the case of Divine Might so I'll have to take a closer look at that as well.

@Scrabbler

I must have just forgotten about them then, I really don't remember spending points in the trees ^^

+2 Tomes may be common at that level but by then it would be a little late for being able to get the various Feats that require it. Same reason I didn't bother counting Tomes into Intel - by the time I get an extra skill point from that method there won't be many levels left to really take advantage of it where as a Reinc character would be looking at a starting stat of 9 with expectations of using tomes at earliest available level.


I'll take another look at the plan and try to incorporate improvements based on the discussion. At the very least I'll have a more refined plan for a future life if I don't get an optimal build this time. Skills are still a bit of an unknown. I understand that Concentration becomes less important if you use Quicken at all times and Heal seems to be pretty unpopular all around... Worst case scenario the last 5-10 levels will become a huge PITA full of hard learned lessons before giving the character a new lease on life lol

stoerm
08-28-2014, 04:35 AM
The radiant titan linked by Unbongowah build is a good one, with the caveat that paladin divine grace is getting nerfed somewhat.

There have been two enhancement passes, trees came with the last iteration.