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Wh070aa
08-22-2014, 11:38 AM
I am planning to do an artificer for the past life (so I don't gimp my trapping skills on my arti/wiz/barbarian) and since I have force and lightning caster gear, I decided on TRing to caster arti.Mostly solo play, caster style (ranged, kiting, Jump/haste equivalents when possible. Thinking about spamming lightning SLA's, but rune arm+repeater seems like better damage. (Dubbell O'Seven build -ish, probably different feat order, Max int, then Dex, then Con).
So questions.
1)Is this even viable, with the microscopic spell pool without Torc/green steel? If yes-
2)Warforged vs human - is the healing or extra feat/skills a worth it?
3) Feat sequence - Quicken/maximize early for SLA's, or point blank shot/Precise Shot? Should I switch out something at some level?
4)When it falls off? I know it strong up to level 7 ish(repeater), and after level 16 (BB), but do I have to make major game play changes for mid game?
5)Rune arm slow, am I forced to take the capstone, or I can just skip pressing Alt for damage?
6)Targeting of thrown spells, any advice on that? For me 1 in 3 spells hit's the ceiling.
7)Is UMD- ing Ice storm and stuff worth it? Any other worthwhile scrolls? Can I even get worthwhile umd before like level 12 (Wen its still worth using for other stuff except heals,rise dead, Heroism, true seeing?) How much plat I should have saved up for it?
8)Any spell point tips? I have ultra bad luck with Spell regen items (60+ runs, no torc), I ain't even trying for greensteel, as nothing drops for me. Got ion stone, and efficient meta magic stuff.
9)Is precision any good? I used it a bit, but really 3 feat's seem bit steep for the couple of times the enemies actually line up.
10)Anything I have to know about rune arms? I know most of the tings exempt explosive shot are garbage?
11) Any multiclass tings I should know about? I TR at 20 so I don't care about capstone that much. I am thinking ranger and/or wizard(?)
12) Anything else I should know about?

Livmo
08-22-2014, 11:56 AM
I am planning to do an artificer for the past life (so I don't gimp my trapping skills on my arti/wiz/barbarian) and since I have force and lightning caster gear, I decided on TRing to caster arti.Mostly solo play, caster style (ranged, kiting, Jump/haste equivalents when possible. Thinking about spamming lightning SLA's, but rune arm+repeater seems like better damage. (Dubbell O'Seven build -ish, probably different feat order, Max int, then Dex, then Con).
So questions.
1)Is this even viable, with the microscopic spell pool without Torc/green steel? If yes-
2)Warforged vs human - is the healing or extra feat/skills a worth it?
3) Feat sequence - Quicken/maximize early for SLA's, or point blank shot/Precise Shot? Should I switch out something at some level?
4)When it falls off? I know it strong up to level 7 ish(repeater), and after level 16 (BB), but do I have to make major game play changes for mid game?
5)Rune arm slow, am I forced to take the capstone, or I can just skip pressing Alt for damage?
6)Targeting of thrown spells, any advice on that? For me 1 in 3 spells hit's the ceiling.
7)Is UMD- ing Ice storm and stuff worth it? Any other worthwhile scrolls? Can I even get worthwhile umd before like level 12 (Wen its still worth using for other stuff except heals,rise dead, Heroism, true seeing?) How much plat I should have saved up for it?
8)Any spell point tips? I have ultra bad luck with Spell regen items (60+ runs, no torc), I ain't even trying for greensteel, as nothing drops for me. Got ion stone, and efficient meta magic stuff.
9)Is precision any good? I used it a bit, but really 3 feat's seem bit steep for the couple of times the enemies actually line up.
10)Anything I have to know about rune arms? I know most of the tings exempt explosive shot are garbage?
11) Any multiclass tings I should know about? I TR at 20 so I don't care about capstone that much. I am thinking ranger and/or wizard(?)
12) Anything else I should know about?

You can build a good Caster/repeater/trapper build that can rock even in EE , however based on what typed above, I do not recomend arty for you, unless you are willing take on the learning curve. You can have all 3 if done right. Perhaps another arty might be willing to tackle all of your questions?

You will learn arty better by doing and it may take you a few lives to get it down.

Wh070aa
08-22-2014, 12:18 PM
You can build a good Caster/repeater/trapper build that can rock even in EE , however based on what typed above, I do not recomend arty for you, unless you are willing take on the learning curve. You can have all 3 if done right. Perhaps another arty might be willing to tackle all of your questions?

You will learn arty better by doing and it may take you a few lives to get it down.

I just want some help with the middle of curve. I got the end part, and the beginning part down.

I know I an doing something wrong in the level 7 to 15 window. Idk what tho.

My theories are as follows -
1)I am doing the attack speed/bab ting wrong somehow (more confirm critical gear maybe?)
2)I suck at rune arms (no canith crafting tings on them?)
3) I am a noob?

But yea, it would help learning, If I knew what I should learn. I done many artificer splashes, but noting too deep, and wouldn't mind learning it.

Panzermeyer
08-22-2014, 12:22 PM
Arti's are pretty durable and destructive in Heroic so you are good whichever way you want to run.

Your repeater will tear everything up.

There is really no reason why you cannot get most all the ranged Feats and the caster feats. You will definitely want to get ranged feats as you will not be able to survive alone on arty spells. You will need your repeater.

You will not have to change your play stay much in mid levels.

Splashing for evasion can be useful. However for heroic pure is quite fine as well. The problem with spalshing is that it delays the 2 best damage spells you have for heroic. 6th level you get flam turret which makes the Necro a cake walk. And you get BB at 15. If you do a 2 splash (of anything) you will miss FT for the first tier of the Neco (though have it for end one) and you delay BB till 17. You could also do a Wizzy for extra feat (not really needed) or Sorc for the few level 1 arcane spells (Jump) and access to the Air Savant tree. But for heroic you are likely happy with 2 rogue or pure.

As an Arti you get 5 bonus feats (if pure) plus the 7 regulars. (Assuming not Human)

Point Blank
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
IPS
IC: Ranged

Maximize
Quicken
Empower

If you are worried about spell pool there is room for Mental Toughness and IMT.

I would definitely go with the ranged feats first as your Repeater will slaughter the low level quests far better and quicker than any of your spells will.

Rest for flavor. Be aware of maxing out metamagics, most metamagics do not work nor do not work well with Arti spells. Almost none of them can be extended, heighten is pretty worthless, etc.

Personally I will not run a robot, so I have done Human with Construct Essense for the extra feat. I use the Dragonmark of Passage for Expeditious (in low heroics) and most importantly DD. Very very useful if you mostly solo.

Rune arm use basically you have to decide if you are going full caster or ranged. The main thing about the rune arm is that without the T5 you move super slow charging rune arm, and charge the rune arm slow. So if you go caster route, I would only mainly use the rune arm when I am standing still and likely in boss fights, otherwise just equip it for the extra effects the rune arm offers both yourself and your weapon. The Battle Engineer tree helps with your rune arm.

If you go spell casting go all in with Electric as that is what most SLA's and damage are based in. But still keep the ranged. Some arti spells are slow to cast you need something to do in between.

The cool thing about this is that you can play with it. Since you have enough feats to get both ranged and casting, your focus is mainly off your enhancements which you can reset whenever you want if you don't like how it has turned out.

Boombastic
08-22-2014, 12:25 PM
Just keep in mind that a caster arty is going to be subpar in epics, at least from my personal experience they are. electric immune mobs are a MAJOR pain

cru121
08-22-2014, 12:27 PM
I have leveled a halfling, pure, caster, full meta, dragonmarked, first life. SLAs were really strong 10-16, to the point that I sometimes realized midquest that I haven't summoned any bolts yet. SLAs are also really cheap, SP bar was never a problem. I recommend metas early, quicken at 6 for flame turret. I've used Tira's Splendor for healamp to get more mileage out of full-meta CLW/CSW SLAs.

EDIT: I agree with the poster above. In epics, she sucked.
EDIT: OTOH Electric immune mobs you simply shoot.

Wh070aa
08-22-2014, 01:25 PM
I totally forgot about dimension door.

That's like 2 extra feats tho. Also healing amp kinda suffers(and repairs are not that good). What about healing scrolls/wands? Can you use them, and still use repeater?

Also how much Precise Shot is needed? Improved Precise Shot is nice and all, but is it worth taking Precise Shot early? It's not like I ever stand still for stance, and Jump item/pots mostly covers the "through enemies" part?

Can I take it at like level 12 or so? Or its important in low levels?

Also what about Precision? -25% fort sounds good for undead/constructs? Also is Rapid shot worth getting?

Man human vs WF is a really hard choice. If I go human, I wont be taking the construct essence (because IMO it is not efficient), but I have to UMD heal (which kinda sucks). I do get DDor (so good for when I want to go afk while soloing a quest), but its major enchantment investment.
WF get's all the heals, and more con.

I gonna make test char of a human range focused level arti out, I guess. The human skill boost is rather nice for trapping. Con will probably be a problem tho. O well.

Thanks for the answers.

Livmo
08-22-2014, 03:37 PM
I totally forgot about dimension door.

That's like 2 extra feats tho. Also healing amp kinda suffers(and repairs are not that good). What about healing scrolls/wands? Can you use them, and still use repeater?

Also how much Precise Shot is needed? Improved Precise Shot is nice and all, but is it worth taking Precise Shot early? It's not like I ever stand still for stance, and Jump item/pots mostly covers the "through enemies" part?

Can I take it at like level 12 or so? Or its important in low levels?

Also what about Precision? -25% fort sounds good for undead/constructs? Also is Rapid shot worth getting?

Man human vs WF is a really hard choice. If I go human, I wont be taking the construct essence (because IMO it is not efficient), but I have to UMD heal (which kinda sucks). I do get DDor (so good for when I want to go afk while soloing a quest), but its major enchantment investment.
WF get's all the heals, and more con.

I gonna make test char of a human range focused level arti out, I guess. The human skill boost is rather nice for trapping. Con will probably be a problem tho. O well.

Thanks for the answers.

Yes! You want Improved Precise Shot. I can target a baddie in the back of the pack, and if I'm able to get the pack to line up somewhat, I can take down more than 1 baddie with the same burst from my xbow.

If you still have a free LR heart you can use that instead of multiple lives to dial in your arty. Panzermeyer put down a nice foundation to build upon.

Another reason to go human and take construct essence is for the human racial tree. You can stack SLAs and such and then use Endless Fuselodge. For example,


Human Action Boost to Hit + Arty Action Boost to Damage + Stormrage + Endless Fuselodge + Boulder Toss.

There are lots of other combos, and you can expand and contract your sequences based on the situation you're facing. If you take both to hit and damage boosts in the Battle Engineer enhancement tree, they don't stack, because they share the same cool down. Taking Human and Arty boosts will stack.

--

Tactical Detonation is both Fire and Force. Bladebarrier is force. Ligthening Sphere is electric. Pump INt to the max. and make use of gear that helps with DCs and spell penetration

Panzermeyer
08-22-2014, 04:16 PM
I totally forgot about dimension door.

That's like 2 extra feats tho. Also healing amp kinda suffers(and repairs are not that good). What about healing scrolls/wands? Can you use them, and still use repeater?

Also how much Precise Shot is needed? Improved Precise Shot is nice and all, but is it worth taking Precise Shot early? It's not like I ever stand still for stance, and Jump item/pots mostly covers the "through enemies" part?

Can I take it at like level 12 or so? Or its important in low levels?

Also what about Precision? -25% fort sounds good for undead/constructs? Also is Rapid shot worth getting?

Man human vs WF is a really hard choice. If I go human, I wont be taking the construct essence (because IMO it is not efficient), but I have to UMD heal (which kinda sucks). I do get DDor (so good for when I want to go afk while soloing a quest), but its major enchantment investment.
WF get's all the heals, and more con.

I gonna make test char of a human range focused level arti out, I guess. The human skill boost is rather nice for trapping. Con will probably be a problem tho. O well.

Thanks for the answers.

DD is one feat only. And not that much of an investment. You really only need 3 AP to get it. One into Tier 1 and 2 into Tier 2. I think this will get you 2 DD's. Anything more is for additional uses.

I have a capped Human arti with construct essence honestly I do not know what people complain about there is so much over healing in this game.

If using construct essence then don't both with the human healing amp. Since you are only going with Heroic levels you will be able to heal yourself just fine. If you do some farming of ings you can craft the Ring of the Master Artifice which will be great for your self healing.

Precise shot is important at all levels to be able to fire at the target you want. Casters can really mess with you particularly if you are alive a long time cause you have to mow through the stuff between you and them.

Yes definitely get Rapid Reload I forgot to mention that.

That still leaves you with 3 free feats. As a ranged/caster build what more do you need.
You can still take the MT and IMT and have one more feat. For your style you will get more use out of IPS than PS. But I definitely strongly recommend taking PS. Nothing is worse than not being able to target the monster that you want to.

Precision works well with Artis. I run with that myself.

You seem to be fighting the archery feats a bit. Just curious what would you plan on taking instead. Most meta feats are just useless with Artis. Only ones of note are Max, Emp and Quicken.

You might want to take augment summoning at or before you hit 6. for the flame turret. Drop it around 15 or so, as at the higher levels it is not useful enough.

Also you can take the intim line for your doggie and he will pull aggro for you giving you breathing room.

Livmo
08-22-2014, 04:53 PM
some gear to maybe aspire to:
https://i.imgur.com/Tev6n6I.jpg

Wh070aa
09-04-2014, 05:26 PM
Reporting back.
Level 8 now.

Went with human,max int, 17dex, 14 con, no construct essence for now.

Got dragon mark (for them afk moments, and running away.) Gotta target yourself, or does not work. Good thing I played cleric, so I am used to pressing F1 every time I cast non attack spell. Well at least spell version worked fine, last time I used it.

PBS, maximize and quicken as other feats. Spell casting is hella slow even with quicken.

No problems hitting targets I want.None of the 4 artis I met in game had PS. Save a feat for the low price of stack of jump pots (also maybe invest in stuns for trash).

Cure thingy heals like 40 to 100+ HP.(w/ maximize). I love healing myself in undead crowds. Targeting is surprisingly good, compered to other spells. Don't cast near walls or boxes tho, it goes straight into abyss. Wand healing to top off to save spell points.

Rune arm shot damage is garbage so far. Its like 30-ish.
I summon dog only to tank bosses, because he is useless against trash, and usually is more trouble, than worth.Dies too fast even with nearly maxed armor.(Invoun+lifeshield docent, max out adamantine plating and stuff).

Hasting the flame turret, testing the damage increase. I still don't have a clue it it helps. Animation seems faster, but I might be imagining things.
Turret is awesome tho.Scales poorly, but I hope I can manege.

Battle engineer tree is overpriced, and does absolutely nothing, save for slight repeater damage increase?(did not even notice it).12 points for supposed +5 damage. I still need to shoot like 2 times to kill something with or without it.

Put my points in racial (seriously), and Arcanoechnician. Racial sneak attack, and DDor is nice. Also skill and attack boost. (1 point vs 4 in Engineer.), tho I don't use it that much. Might change it for more PBS(and sneak attack) range.

I been using scrolls/wands a lot.
Lightning sphere SLA + fireball wand combo is pretty devastating at lower levels. Human skill boost helps with the umd a lot (as I roll >5 about 4 times out of 6, failed 14 times to cast restoration scroll on 65% success chance). 75% damage boost means about 60 damage from fireball. Great before you get flame turret.

Rest as usual, but the Artificer masteries are really nice. +20 jump instead of +10 from pots, couple extra seconds of haste clickies, and decently long blurr. (also them stone skin wands/scrolls. Don't use them much tho.) The everlasting heroism flask is nice to have, as I don't have to carry and refill more potions.
With 3 wizard past lives, and maxed out enchants, the web wand is quite useful.(especially against scorpions).
Spell resistance scrolls are exquisite (24 SR @ level 7).
Ice storm is ok for slow/damage, but I don't use it much, because flame turret is good enough.Lasts 30 Seconds, longest damage scroll that I can get/use right now(Not 100% sure, I will go over the lists again, when I feel like it).

Eternal wands were surprisingly bad (well the repeater is just better).

Palliative admixture is really hard to target, but 20 temp hp, and 10 SP mass, just for 5 spell points is worth it. Gotta target the flame turret,ally, dog, or solid wall(not easy, door frames usually work).

Lightning sphere stun is awesome. 80-100 damage + mass stun, and targeting is not too horrid.

Getting to the point where I usually start falling off. I hope I did it right this time ( I hope I can get by just with Fred, but I do have a lesser heart in the bank). So far so good, only problem is DR (and lack of DR gear, I totally forgot to get that, because I taught: "Hey arti has spells for that". Nope.)

Overall I could squeeze out 11+(1d6)(Engeneer+flame arrow) per arrow, if I sacrificed all utility, but 22 to 60(average shot is about 30) (+4d6 or so depending on gear (2d8 +2d6 or something) per arrow is fine for me.

Also I tend to be the dedicated "O ****" healer in parties with druids and bards and even clerics. Admittedly it was a pug cleric, but still.
Does the healing fall off at some point? Or the spell point spending increases, making healing harder?

Well I guess I gotta find out the hard way, since no one answers my "What you do between level 7 and 15" question.

Update.
Level 10 now.
I messed up, and playing the character sucks. I guess I will have to endure till at least level 12 when I actually get some stuff. I hate empty levels. Will try to just discard the rune arm, as it generally does all of +2 damage per bolt, and frankly does not justify gear slot. Vorpal effects are nice and all, but it takes longer to get a crit, than just to nuke them down with SLA's. Too bad that every possible spell is piece of garbage (exempt the SLA ones), or HAS BIGGER CASTER LEVEL WHEN USED AS WAND/SCROLL.
DURR ARCHERY AND RUNEARM SO GOOD.
Thanks guys for the *good* advice. I really should learn, and stop asking advice on forums. Now I gotta Use scrolls and potions like madman, to do anything, which is nice, because I rolled 1 eight times yesterday on UMD rolls. Also the non functioning sneak mechanics are really annoying, and the aggression mechanics are way beyond understandable. Enemies run around like headless chickens, or spontanisuly all aggro one target for no reason.

Update.
Level 15 now, Yay BB, Boo mobility. Gotta wait till 16 for my mobility/damage migration stuff. Gotta start using displacement, instead of blurr. So much gear switching. Gianthood and necro 4 is not fun.

Update.
Level 21 Now. No Towens, but I really don't use rune arms anyway.Glorious Obscenity damage sucks, and the mechanics are too uncomfortable, to invest in. Other rune arms are even worse.
Got insightful reflexes and overwhelming critical. No Combat Archery, because no +4 tome, or point investment. Totally forgot about that.
Running in Divine Crusader, because Shiradi sucks balls, and never procs. Seriously, I have it maxed out, and it proceed like 4 times in servants. Maybe even less, since I had hiradi sorc in party. Yes I had the stance on and stuff.
Divine Crusader gives up to 60% dobleshot(decaying tingy, and on crit procs), +1 crit range and some bane damage. Too bad the Castigation does not work as written (actual effects include 1 to 60 damage, and (on enemy death) healing 1 or 32 Hp to me, ~5 times in rapid succession.*** is that, I have no clue). Still its only ting that gives reasonable ranged power (+50 ish, every 4 minutes, decaying in some amount of time (3 to 12 seconds according to timer, but it has noting to do with anything). Tactical Detonation works with Empyrean Magic, which is a nice perk, giving me a tad bit more critical. I am still switching to shiradi when tanking and stuff. I might just twist in the DR-, instead of the extra spell points(Endless faith) that I have now. I surprisingly don't have any SP problems.
I still haven't tested blitz and adrenaline, to see if they even work, but blah. Probably can't recharge them, so not worth.
Maybe try out draconic too. Probably gotta switch from acid that I have now (for the demons that are lightning immune) to lightning, but I don't have enough spell power to really do anything with it (unless lightning), and that has the immunity problems.
Overall, I have not gotten anything artificer past level 16. Just 4 empty levels, with some extra spell slots, for spells that are not useful, and extra arti feats, that gives you nothing.
I can heal 100 to 200 with infusions, got cocoon, and healing spring/Consecration. I heal way better than on a cleric lol. Only problem is targeting (as with all Arcanotechnician infusions, you can't target self, unlike the spell).
At least level 20 stone skin wands from capstone are nice. Pretty much waste of points taught. +2 int is nice and all, but getting tree up to 42, and missing other stuff? Not worth. Still better than other options. Like endless fusillade. Yay more attacks for 6 seconds, with 6 second animation to do it. Might as well just save points, and just run around and shoot.

Still up to level 18 it was really fun.

Edit: After level 16 and repeater with nightshade venom,IPS, and deadly weapons the archery gets better.

Phaeton_Seraph
09-25-2014, 08:51 PM
I am planning to do an artificer for the past life (so I don't gimp my trapping skills on my arti/wiz/barbarian) and since I have force and lightning caster gear, I decided on TRing to caster arti.Mostly solo play, caster style (ranged, kiting, Jump/haste equivalents when possible. Thinking about spamming lightning SLA's, but rune arm+repeater seems like better damage. (Dubbell O'Seven build -ish, probably different feat order, Max int, then Dex, then Con).
So questions.
1)Is this even viable, with the microscopic spell pool without Torc/green steel? If yes-
2)Warforged vs human - is the healing or extra feat/skills a worth it?
3) Feat sequence - Quicken/maximize early for SLA's, or point blank shot/Precise Shot? Should I switch out something at some level?
4)When it falls off? I know it strong up to level 7 ish(repeater), and after level 16 (BB), but do I have to make major game play changes for mid game?
5)Rune arm slow, am I forced to take the capstone, or I can just skip pressing Alt for damage?
6)Targeting of thrown spells, any advice on that? For me 1 in 3 spells hit's the ceiling.
7)Is UMD- ing Ice storm and stuff worth it? Any other worthwhile scrolls? Can I even get worthwhile umd before like level 12 (Wen its still worth using for other stuff except heals,rise dead, Heroism, true seeing?) How much plat I should have saved up for it?
8)Any spell point tips? I have ultra bad luck with Spell regen items (60+ runs, no torc), I ain't even trying for greensteel, as nothing drops for me. Got ion stone, and efficient meta magic stuff.
9)Is precision any good? I used it a bit, but really 3 feat's seem bit steep for the couple of times the enemies actually line up.
10)Anything I have to know about rune arms? I know most of the tings exempt explosive shot are garbage?
11) Any multiclass tings I should know about? I TR at 20 so I don't care about capstone that much. I am thinking ranger and/or wizard(?)
12) Anything else I should know about?

1) At epic levels in Magister or Draconic (your real home) I have around 1,800 sp, and with a Magister level item, I have over 2,000 sp. Fully invested ArcanoTech SLAs cost 6sp. You can spam those like a mofo and never run out of SP. It's the Reconstructs, TactDets, Prismatic Strikes and Blade Barriers that will drain your SP.

2) Never have run as an WF. I don't know many fleshies who don't have Construct Essence. I've heard people in the forums say it's not worth it, but in games, I hardly ever meet anyone like that, only ever notice them when I throw them a repair and it fails (the fact that I throw them repairs indicates their level of self-sufficency, doesn't it?)

3) Maximise, Heighten and Maximise (and I did throw in Empower last). These all work on your SLAs. Point Blank yes, Precise no.

4) When what falls off specifically? It's more of a constant evolution. If you're always trying to get more, you won't stumble so long on the plateaus. How major your changes are depend on how you balance. Yeah, by level 10 you want to be using repeaters with vorpal-type effects. Around the time you get Blade Barrier, your turrets are not so good...

5) Change your Rune arm's keybindings. Change SP to Ctrl+x, and the rune arm to X. Alt tabbing through mobs will alt tab your out of the DDO client if you spam the Arm. Unless you're a melee-fice using bastard swords/dwarven axes, you're ranged. Any time you're not running, you should charge and spam the Arm, as its turns are relatively independent of your spells/repeaters turns, so if you're not spamming it, you're wasting DPS. Discharge it when you gotta run so you can keep up with the meatshields, keep them (especially the cleric :p ) between you and the mobs. I have invested somewhat in the runearm enhancements, overcharge. venting capacitor &c. Nothing in Tier 5 of the B.E. tree.

6) I assume you're talking of Lightning Sphere. If you got a lock, and they're a straight line and not to far, it generally goes straight.
Advice? Go run Kobold Assault and lob nothing but Lightning Spheres while your dog has fun. You'll get the hang of it.
Sphere's have more range but, if you can, always try to lead with Lightning Motes, it makes them vulnerable to electricity... (at Epic Elite leading with Motes makes the difference between 2-3 kills and no kills when using an Electrical Energy Burst).

7) We have no native access to any DOTs. I always carry ice storm wands, they are extremely useful. Just remember that all UMD-based castings (wand or scroll, not native to Arties), is subject to ASF.

8) Never had a Torc, didn't even wear my ConOpp item this life. Even at higher levels, I still tend to favor Tovens (fewer missed shots, and my Electrical spellpower and lore is maxed), and I do see points floating in, but a ranged artie isn't ging to take the steady damage it needs to recharge like in the videos, and it's probably not tough enough either. Wizardry IX will let you ditch the Ioun stone, but until then, there's nothing better. (There is a stacking elemental energy from greensteel, but it's hard to craft something you'll want to wear until Lvl:20 for a measely 150 sp.
Rely on you're fully meta'd SLAs and you'll probably be OK for SP.

9) Are you a caster or an archer? If you're a caster, then "is Precision any good?" is slightly moot.
IMO, t's not good enough for a caster to warrant spending a feat on it. I know it sounds arrogant but, like the Devs say, it's all about the hard choices. Really, the repeater is just there to keep up the DPS during every spare and turns where you can't cast. (Or to add DPS while you wait for the meatshields to grab the aggro, TactDetting the boss before then is a recipe for a quick raise dead).
(Precise Shot is probably not a waste, but I don't think I missed it this life.)

10) Explosive shot is great at lower levels, except where things are immune to fire.
All arms are useful in their place.
Arms that fire in cone ditributions are probably intended for melee-ficers, and that's why they almost never get used.
All the others are good, depending on the circumstance. Depends on whether there are obstructions, mob DR, and the enhancements. You could have a thread on this topic alone. There probably are a few.
You get to a certain level, and the arms pretty much cease one-hit-killing. (Rune Arms and Repeaters start out OP, but that's probably your fall-off).




11) No comment.

12)
Someone commented that electrical damage becomes less effective at epics. Yes, and yes, and not really.
As a caster, you don't need much Dex. You have Insightful feats and spells. Your Int should be very high. There are feats, enhancements, destinies and equipment bonuses that increase your DCs and crits. Your DCs should be as high as possible for any caster or any class.
You have a spell that causes electrical vulnerability and and enhancement for that as well. You have Meta-enabled SLAs (e.g Heighten).
Unless a mob is absolutely immune to Electricity (and if it is, it's going t be immune to other things too, so electrial is in no way special), I can usually still cause decent damage.
And for when it doesn't work, you have Prismatic Strike, TactDet, DR-breaking Rune Arms, repeaters with interesting procs, Ice Storm Wands, Grenades and a party full of meatshields.


As you advance in your Artie levels (I think this is in the ArcanoTech tree), your clickies will gain longer duration. When you take the ArcanoTech capstone, an Expeditious Retreat clicky lasts 20mins. If you're just doing a 20-lvl dash, then the Mark of Passage isn't terrible, especially if you need the DD for farming. But I wouldn't bother with it myself.


As for your dog, it takes work to do your fog right and to learn to use him. One life of 20 levels won't be enough. But Reinforce and Toughen Construct are spells you should buff him with (IIRC they also work on turrets). You do buff your dog, don't you? I go human and take Augment Summoning at character creation.

You are disillusioned about weapons damage, but that's precisely why I've gone pure caster. You can put out an insane amount of firepower, if your actions per are high enough, and that's why those weapons become less effective. The game's supposed to become harder.
You're going to get to a point where you have to shoot things what feels like a hundred times for it to die, and they don't even have red names. Are you going to ditch your repeater too?
Use the rune arm to add to your DPS, as I said before, it generally doesn't interfere with your other turn-based actions, so why would you waste the resource? You're using Alt so, for you, while you're standing there shooting and casting your left hand shoulf be: Alt (other actions while charging), Tab, Alt (other action while it cools down) and start over from the first Alt. And while you're left hand is doing those options your right hand can still be clicking the mouse and casting spells. (it just occured to me it might be easier as my mouse has a numeric pad on the side for my thumb)

Singular
09-25-2014, 10:18 PM
good stuff edited for space

Great summary and advice! I have a couple of questions:

1. How much damage do your slas do? Are you ok in EE content?
2. How much damage do you do with Toven's?
3. Why Magister? On my sorc, when I run in Draconic, the energy burst + dragon's breath do tremendous damage. When used together I can clear entire rooms of mobs.

Last, on my ranged artie, I have just over 2100 spell points using green steal boots (that I swap after using that mana) and if using the planar conflux of erudition w/needle. I didn't try to max out sp, so pretty sure that's a relatively easy number to achieve.

Phaeton_Seraph
09-26-2014, 10:26 PM
Great summary and advice! I have a couple of questions:

1. How much damage do your slas do? Are you ok in EE content?
2. How much damage do you do with Toven's?
3. Why Magister? On my sorc, when I run in Draconic, the energy burst + dragon's breath do tremendous damage. When used together I can clear entire rooms of mobs.

Last, on my ranged artie, I have just over 2100 spell points using green steal boots (that I swap after using that mana) and if using the planar conflux of erudition w/needle. I didn't try to max out sp, so pretty sure that's a relatively easy number to achieve.

1) Hmmm... I'll get back with more info, but my Lightning Rod usually does 400-500hp of damage, if I remember to use Motes first, higher, when it must be critting, 900hp+ (I think I've seen it go as high as 1,400) when the numbers come up yellow it's often around 250hp. But that's a 6sp spell.

Generally, I'm OK in EE content. Primarily, it's about ensuring the meatsheilds grab the aggro first. The dog and my twisted Kindred Spirit also keep aggro off me (lear to use the dog's intim and bluff)/

With Draconic, I have to jump into the fray to make the Burst and Breath effective. But I have to remember to get my butt out of there ASAP.
I think of my toon as an Artillery-ficer. Artilery is intended to be behind the lines. I can throw tremendous power around, but I have to ensure that the mobs don't gang bang or swarm me. To this end, the Energy Burst and Dragons Breath are tremendous assets.
As I said before, part of making your electrical damage more effective can damage their resistances. Keeping those two tools useful saves your life.


The worst times are when it's just not viable to be out of the scrum or dog pile (or whatever that rugby term is). CI makes fleshies a harder heal (we take a 30% hit to heal IIRC) and wind up spending every 32rd or 4th action reconstructing. e.g. EE VoN 5's dragon

But if you are used to fighting from behind the lines, you get used to self healing/repairing. Healers, if you can get them tend to neglect people their mass/burst heals can't get.

One strategy in various environments (e.g. the new dwarven ruins explorer, with 10 players most at appropriate levels, while I was the lowest level in there seems to have serious caling), I look for a likely WF and become his personal mechanic, someone decently tankish (last time was a WF Sorc, actually). Keep behind him, and help him win the glory. It's not as glamorous as being a Monk or whatever, but it works.

You have to find your own way of play that allows you to work with the other party members, but allows you to fight from your optimal range(s). It seems so many people try to fight the same way, from the same ranges. But there's no reason you should. Don't feel guilty or weak for playing a class the way it was designed to be played.

2) Huh, haven't been watching so much, it's jut something I spam, but I seem to recall it usually hits for approx 300, for each bolt, but I think it's been different lately. I want to get one of those new Dwarven arms.
I typically use the Glass Canon and a Force arm (archaic, atm) for when the mob is immune to energy, and that ice arm from epic Tor for those fiery-type mobs.

I'll write down some numbers tonight and get back to you.


3) Draconic is my home. Magister is the only other ED that gives as much SP as Draconic (that I know of, I haven't gotten far enough into my other EDs to try the healing trees).

Wh070aa
09-27-2014, 01:52 AM
1) Snip.

Why heighten? I really don't see any point in taking it, just for the SLA's, and the stuns work without it. Besides at level where it actually starts doing stuff, you are kiting BB anyway, so stuns are meh. I got quicken instead, because it really speeds up the casting of Sla's, and is nice for tower and BB, and skipped heighten.

As for your rune arm suggestions, they are good and all, but charging and shooting (and waiting for it to go to mob) is too slow, and I have killed all the mobs before the rune arm blast is anywhere near mob. And they go sideways, or have no range (or damage) for rune arms that don't shoot at 90 degree angle right into wall.

I don't see any point in giving up my extra spell SLA, and investing like 40 points to make it actually usable. Otherwise standing or moving at ineradicably slow pace) is just not worth the damage it does vs damage I take. Rune arms are absolutely useless in lower levels, compered to just using repeater, and couple of slas. Only thing they are good for is smashing boxes (and doors), and the extra 1d6 or 1d8 damage, and maybe vorpal effect.

My fights go like this. I run in, cycle all the slas (turret, BB, if needed), then run backwards while shooting repeater, unless I can snipe stuff.

If I try to add rune arm it goes like this- I run in spam slas, start charging rune arm as walking backwards, then I get tripped, take lot of damage, have to heal, and then I spam slas again killing stuff.

What am I doing wrong? Its kinda hard to CC every mob with one shot of CC, and any damage (such as dog, Ice storm or repeater breaks the CC), maybe I just have to wait for SLA cool downs while they are stunned?

Also Since ewryone suggested archery, I went hybrid build. IPS does about same damage as lightning bolt (vorpal effects canceling out the smaller base damage, + it's free).

I sadly couldn't get Toven's Hammer to drop, AND ITS LEVEL 19! I know its game changer, but...

Please read the post you are responding to, if one asks "How do I build artificer to get to level 20" don't answer, well once you get to level 20 and are in magister or draconic, and have epic gear....

Phaeton_Seraph
09-27-2014, 08:11 PM
Why heighten? I really don't see any point in taking it, just for the SLA's, and the stuns work without it. Besides at level where it actually starts doing stuff, you are kiting BB anyway, so stuns are meh. I got quicken instead, because it really speeds up the casting of Sla's, and is nice for tower and BB, and skipped heighten.

As for your rune arm suggestions, they are good and all, but charging and shooting (and waiting for it to go to mob) is too slow, and I have killed all the mobs before the rune arm blast is anywhere near mob. And they go sideways, or have no range (or damage) for rune arms that don't shoot at 90 degree angle right into wall.

I don't see any point in giving up my extra spell SLA, and investing like 40 points to make it actually usable. Otherwise standing or moving at ineradicably slow pace) is just not worth the damage it does vs damage I take. Rune arms are absolutely useless in lower levels, compered to just using repeater, and couple of slas. Only thing they are good for is smashing boxes (and doors), and the extra 1d6 or 1d8 damage, and maybe vorpal effect.

My fights go like this. I run in, cycle all the slas (turret, BB, if needed), then run backwards while shooting repeater, unless I can snipe stuff.

If I try to add rune arm it goes like this- I run in spam slas, start charging rune arm as walking backwards, then I get tripped, take lot of damage, have to heal, and then I spam slas again killing stuff.

What am I doing wrong? Its kinda hard to CC every mob with one shot of CC, and any damage (such as dog, Ice storm or repeater breaks the CC), maybe I just have to wait for SLA cool downs while they are stunned?

Also Since ewryone suggested archery, I went hybrid build. IPS does about same damage as lightning bolt (vorpal effects canceling out the smaller base damage, + it's free).

I sadly couldn't get Toven's Hammer to drop, AND ITS LEVEL 19! I know its game changer, but...

Please read the post you are responding to, if one asks "How do I build artificer to get to level 20" don't answer, well once you get to level 20 and are in magister or draconic, and have epic gear....


OK, maybe my post covered more than you asked for. Reading your last post, I see you already made a hybrid. So you invalidated your own question and wasted time. You're not a pure caster and your going to have develop your toon that way. So, some of what I've said can't be applied. Your fault, not mine.


Your SLAs and their DCs are limited by level. Just like your spells. But your SLAs cost 6sp, unlike your spells. Heightening increases the DC and effectiveness; if you don't understand how, try the wiki, or just try it.

You sound like you're too close to the action. You cast ranged spells, for the most part, you have ranged weapons.

Current play style is for everyone to just charge in and depend on OP builds. That doesn't work for a caster artificer.

Place a turret in a doorway before it's open, or if you're going to pull mobs to it.
Otherwise, don't put your turret down into the action until they are well aggroed by the meat shields. You're not a tank, so stay the hell outta there. You're a support toon.

In fact, screw the people who insist on fighting in a dogpile without any other form of strategy.

Turrets, at heroic levels, make great shields against enemy fire. You can put it down in front of you, while a good ways away from the mosh pit, as a shield and an aggro-magnet if you attract hate.

You should be able to stand still for most of your attacking, because you shouldn't be near enough to the mobs for them to physically attack you. If you are, it's a bad place for you. If your temperament isn't suited for it, go roll a monk.

Don't charge the arm while walking backwards unless you have no choice. When you have to enter the fray, lay down your damage, disengage, withdraw to a safe distance and reengage. Use your sphere to CC and disengage
Use your repeater while withdrawing, it doesn't slow you down much.
Lay down Blade Barriers while withdrawing.
Use your arm when you are stationary. Or slowly advancing (to keep the fight in range but not actually catch up with it). Most of your movements are stop and start.
Remember your arm doesn't lose charge while jumping/falling.
Sometimes, if you can't get out, are being swarmed, you can use an arm that fires exploding shot to spam fire. First tier, fire, first tier, fire... and spam TactDets. If a Sphere works withdraw far enough for your next AoE not to awaken the stunned and only effect the mobs still on you.

A lot of your casting is AoE, so don't follow a lightning sphere with an AoE. Exploding shot counts as an AoE. It's pretty basic.

Really, most of the advice I have given follows a theme. Invest in the SLAs, invest in the spellpower critical stuff, invest in your crossbow skills till you get Fusillade. Remember you're ranged, so maintain distance.

Most of the new enhancements didn't exist pre-epics. The paths I took then don't apply any more. Just look at what I've said that does apply to Heroic, use what you can, and get out of artificer.
You're not going to be any good in your first heroic life. If you don't go epic, you won't be any good in your first life. It's too short to learn your tactics and to make the most out of the class.

So I'm not sure how much more I can help you. You're like a guy who wants to learn enough Waltz to get through a wedding dance, you don't want everything, and there's only so much it's worth teaching. Grind through the levels and get out.


While the post heroic stuff may not help you, and you started the thread, anyone else who wants to do more than a heroic life and sees the subject will find it useful.

Phaeton_Seraph
09-27-2014, 08:47 PM
I'll be TRing my 2nd life Druid into a Shadar-Kai pure-Artie this weekend.

I'll be able to give some good numbers, for anyone curious. I won't have any of the BTC arms yet, but we'll see.

I'm also curious how the dog will work as a hate tank with 2 druid past lives and Augment summons (which should both apply to the Turrets too).

Wh070aa
09-28-2014, 01:30 AM
OK, maybe my post covered more than you asked for. Reading your last post, I see you already made a hybrid. So you invalidated your own question and wasted time. You're not a pure caster and your going to have develop your toon that way. So, some of what I've said can't be applied. Your fault, not mine.


Your SLAs and their DCs are limited by level. Just like your spells. But your SLAs cost 6sp, unlike your spells. Heightening increases the DC and effectiveness; if you don't understand how, try the wiki, or just try it.

You sound like you're too close to the action. You cast ranged spells, for the most part, you have ranged weapons.

Current play style is for everyone to just charge in and depend on OP builds. That doesn't work for a caster artificer.

Place a turret in a doorway before it's open, or if you're going to pull mobs to it.
Otherwise, don't put your turret down into the action until they are well aggroed by the meat shields. You're not a tank, so stay the hell outta there. You're a support toon.

In fact, screw the people who insist on fighting in a dogpile without any other form of strategy.

Turrets, at heroic levels, make great shields against enemy fire. You can put it down in front of you, while a good ways away from the mosh pit, as a shield and an aggro-magnet if you attract hate.

You should be able to stand still for most of your attacking, because you shouldn't be near enough to the mobs for them to physically attack you. If you are, it's a bad place for you. If your temperament isn't suited for it, go roll a monk.

Don't charge the arm while walking backwards unless you have no choice. When you have to enter the fray, lay down your damage, disengage, withdraw to a safe distance and reengage. Use your sphere to CC and disengage
Use your repeater while withdrawing, it doesn't slow you down much.
Lay down Blade Barriers while withdrawing.
Use your arm when you are stationary. Or slowly advancing (to keep the fight in range but not actually catch up with it). Most of your movements are stop and start.
Remember your arm doesn't lose charge while jumping/falling.
Sometimes, if you can't get out, are being swarmed, you can use an arm that fires exploding shot to spam fire. First tier, fire, first tier, fire... and spam TactDets. If a Sphere works withdraw far enough for your next AoE not to awaken the stunned and only effect the mobs still on you.

A lot of your casting is AoE, so don't follow a lightning sphere with an AoE. Exploding shot counts as an AoE. It's pretty basic.

Really, most of the advice I have given follows a theme. Invest in the SLAs, invest in the spellpower critical stuff, invest in your crossbow skills till you get Fusillade. Remember you're ranged, so maintain distance.

Most of the new enhancements didn't exist pre-epics. The paths I took then don't apply any more. Just look at what I've said that does apply to Heroic, use what you can, and get out of artificer.
You're not going to be any good in your first heroic life. If you don't go epic, you won't be any good in your first life. It's too short to learn your tactics and to make the most out of the class.

So I'm not sure how much more I can help you. You're like a guy who wants to learn enough Waltz to get through a wedding dance, you don't want everything, and there's only so much it's worth teaching. Grind through the levels and get out.


While the post heroic stuff may not help you, and you started the thread, anyone else who wants to do more than a heroic life and sees the subject will find it useful.


Thank you for at answering the question. So that's what you do after arti level 7.

I have done the turret door block couple of times, but it does not work in most quests, and turret starts breaking down real fast, if the mobs are higher level. I play mostly wizard/sorcerer(or caster cleric) style, doing most of my casting mid jump, as it helps a lot with the targeting, and using Blurr/stone skin/displacement wands/scrolls (and other DR stuff, depending on level), and have maximum speed I can get (Expeditious(/striding),Haste pots, Shadow walk scrolls) and Dragon knight past life clicky, allowing some greater speed for kiting BB and Precise shot (and dodging caster stuff).

Strategy you described works poorly in many cases like, against casters,archers, phasers(ghosts), or in cases there is no choke point nearby, but I see the benefit. I wish someone told me about this when I originally started the tread.

Singular
09-28-2014, 03:45 AM
1) Hmmm... I'll get back with more info, but my Lightning Rod usually does 400-500hp of damage, if I remember to use Motes first, higher, when it must be critting, 900hp+ (I think I've seen it go as high as 1,400) when the numbers come up yellow it's often around 250hp. But that's a 6sp spell.

Generally, I'm OK in EE content. Primarily, it's about ensuring the meatsheilds grab the aggro first. The dog and my twisted Kindred Spirit also keep aggro off me (lear to use the dog's intim and bluff)/

With Draconic, I have to jump into the fray to make the Burst and Breath effective. But I have to remember to get my butt out of there ASAP.
I think of my toon as an Artillery-ficer. Artilery is intended to be behind the lines. I can throw tremendous power around, but I have to ensure that the mobs don't gang bang or swarm me. To this end, the Energy Burst and Dragons Breath are tremendous assets.
As I said before, part of making your electrical damage more effective can damage their resistances. Keeping those two tools useful saves your life.


The worst times are when it's just not viable to be out of the scrum or dog pile (or whatever that rugby term is). CI makes fleshies a harder heal (we take a 30% hit to heal IIRC) and wind up spending every 32rd or 4th action reconstructing. e.g. EE VoN 5's dragon

But if you are used to fighting from behind the lines, you get used to self healing/repairing. Healers, if you can get them tend to neglect people their mass/burst heals can't get.

One strategy in various environments (e.g. the new dwarven ruins explorer, with 10 players most at appropriate levels, while I was the lowest level in there seems to have serious caling), I look for a likely WF and become his personal mechanic, someone decently tankish (last time was a WF Sorc, actually). Keep behind him, and help him win the glory. It's not as glamorous as being a Monk or whatever, but it works.

You have to find your own way of play that allows you to work with the other party members, but allows you to fight from your optimal range(s). It seems so many people try to fight the same way, from the same ranges. But there's no reason you should. Don't feel guilty or weak for playing a class the way it was designed to be played.

2) Huh, haven't been watching so much, it's jut something I spam, but I seem to recall it usually hits for approx 300, for each bolt, but I think it's been different lately. I want to get one of those new Dwarven arms.
I typically use the Glass Canon and a Force arm (archaic, atm) for when the mob is immune to energy, and that ice arm from epic Tor for those fiery-type mobs.

I'll write down some numbers tonight and get back to you.


3) Draconic is my home. Magister is the only other ED that gives as much SP as Draconic (that I know of, I haven't gotten far enough into my other EDs to try the healing trees).

Thanks for the detailed answer!

Been wondering that for a long time - what kind of damage output w/electricity after motes. I can never quite seem to get the damage from lightning on my artie as on my sorc, even if both characters have similar levels of spell power. But, with motes, you'd think it could be higher as an artie.

Anyways, on my sorc, my lightning nearly always hits for 1800+ damage and often forks, while my artie is lucky to get 600. I've simply taken it off my rotation. Mind you, I have something like 48% crit chance, which is pretty hard to reach on an artie:

caster: 5
mental toughness: 1
epic past lives: 9
enhancements: 10
improved mental toughness: 1
weapon: 22
Total: 48%

Max artie would therefore be 42 w/epic mental toughness - that's pretty close!

Ah. Just went through the air savant enhancements - it must be the +1 to maximum level when casting air spells that does most of it for me.

Also, on my sorc, I do between 3-9k energy bursts - although more in Draconic (I usually run in Shiradi) - and then dragon breath effectively doubles that, so large groups of mobs take 6-18k damage at once. EE rooms cleared.

So I would guess your tactics are to CC the mobs via motes + tac/det, then energy burst/dragon breath, CC again, finish off the rest? If so, I think the higher level electric rune arms might be great. Arching Sky might be a great rune arm - gets everyone standing in front of you - or the 3BC one St. Murray's Fire, which looks like an updated Toven's and is the fastest firing rune arm. I would guess without actually knowning that the higher level ones use more of your spell power than the heroic ones.

Singular
09-28-2014, 03:47 AM
I'll be TRing my 2nd life Druid into a Shadar-Kai pure-Artie this weekend.

I'll be able to give some good numbers, for anyone curious. I won't have any of the BTC arms yet, but we'll see.

I'm also curious how the dog will work as a hate tank with 2 druid past lives and Augment summons (which should both apply to the Turrets too).

Ooooh, that will be nice! Enjoy :)