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imblo99
08-11-2014, 08:15 PM
I have been grindin on trying to build this thing since I got the class on sale there stats are horrible. Warforged and Paladin don't belong in the same sentence. when i bought the thing I just thought it was a iconic Palladin. Not tin man the dum and clumsy and ugly this thing had 3 stats that are all wrong for a paladin constitution does not make a paladin if everything else stinks, So far every tomb I collected over the years and another 2k in points just to mediocre stats. I want my money back.

It would not have been so bad if I did not just rebuild my Pally monk rog human and know how easy the build could be I would just like to know how they got the nerve to sell this bucket of bolts. I mean 6 Wis and then right when u roll this clunker they have must have 11 wis just to stink and 14 to be mediocre. That is just plain not fair to sell a class paired with a 100% inappropriate race and then have the nerve to call it iconic when the only this iconic about this class is if u want a very ugly yard ornament.
I want my money back even if I only paid 50% because it has 0 value it should have came with a free +3 tomb set. not possible to build first time no tr unless u got a lots a cash to buy tombs, This toon reminds of a 72 ford pinto, a rusty bucket a bolts and just as ugly, remember this was one that is u got hit for behind at like 30 MPH blew up yep same as the BF ;-(

Impaqt
08-11-2014, 08:52 PM
I have been grindin on trying to build this thing since I got the class on sale there stats are horrible. Warforged and Paladin don't belong in the same sentence. when i bought the thing I just thought it was a iconic Palladin. Not tin man the dum and clumsy and ugly this thing had 3 stats that are all wrong for a paladin constitution does not make a paladin if everything else stinks, So far every tomb I collected over the years and another 2k in points just to mediocre stats. I want my money back.

It would not have been so bad if I did not just rebuild my Pally monk rog human and know how easy the build could be I would just like to know how they got the nerve to sell this bucket of bolts. I mean 6 Wis and then right when u roll this clunker they have must have 11 wis just to stink and 14 to be mediocre. That is just plain not fair to sell a class paired with a 100% inappropriate race and then have the nerve to call it iconic when the only this iconic about this class is if u want a very ugly yard ornament.
I want my money back even if I only paid 50% because it has 0 value it should have came with a free +3 tomb set. not possible to build first time no tr unless u got a lots a cash to buy tombs, This toon reminds of a 72 ford pinto, a rusty bucket a bolts and just as ugly, remember this was one that is u got hit for behind at like 30 MPH blew up yep same as the BF ;-(

Exactly what stat do you think is so important to your bladeforged paly? o.O

FranOhmsford
08-11-2014, 09:00 PM
Exactly what stat do you think is so important to your bladeforged paly? o.O

He's already stated in that rant {and no you won't believe it!}.

OP - A base 8 Wis and a +6 item will allow you to cast EVERY Paladin spell!

If you have a +2 Wis tome you won't even need to put a SINGLE point into Wisdom on that Paladin of yours!

NOTE: Paladins do not have any DC requiring spells - The ONLY thing you need Wisdom for is to be able to cast your spells and considering Paladins only have 4 spell levels to worry about that's a 14 Wis requirement {WITH GEAR!} at Lvl 14 - +6 Wis items are 10 a penny at Min Lvl 11!


Str, Con and Charisma are your 3 MAIN stats - Dex and Int aren't necessary unless you're planning on building a TANK!

Wis is a DUMP stat!

LuKaSu
08-11-2014, 09:17 PM
Well, at least it's better than a Warforged Paladin. Plus 2 Cha compared to WF, plus the Reconstruct SLA, and adding repair spells into the Paladin spell list, even some mass repairs. At least, if you had been considering a Warforged Paladin, it's definitely an upgrade from that.

On top of that, I don't think you really need any tomes to build a THF or S&B pure Paladin for your first life. STR, CON, and CHA are your main stats. Put 10 points into each to give you 16 STR, 18 CON, and 16 CHA. Drop CHA down to 14 or CON down to 16 if you have 28 point builds only. You could drop the other 2 points into WIS to cast all spells with a +6 WIS item. As long as you're going Paladin, I think the only times you really need tomes on a pure paladin are when you want to try to go TWF. And for TWF builds, yeah Bladeforged would be one of the worst choices.

Toro12
08-11-2014, 10:41 PM
Much like the bunk you have posted about BF paladins in the OP,
The exploding ford pinto was a myth. A few years ago the main drive behind the myth the TV news rag that had " the shocking truth" about the pinto recanted.

The segments producer couldn't get the car to blow up or even catch fire after crashing stuff into it so he loaded the trunk with gas cans and an explosive , which they detonated remotely.

Can't remember if it was 60 min or 20/20
---
EditII
But I agree pinto and BF are both ugly

stoerm
08-12-2014, 03:45 AM
What the previous posters said: there is nothing wrong with BF. Bladeforged are the most powerful melee characters at the moment, and you can build a decent bladeforged paladin without any tomes.

There is pretty much one casting ability you need from a bladeforged, which is the cheap reconstruct SLA "Communion of Scribing".

How about you take a breath, calm down and ask for build help instead of making uninformed rants? Also, next time have a look at ddowiki.com or somewhere else for information before making a blind purchase.

autochthon
08-12-2014, 04:09 AM
*tome

I can't stop laughing. Priceless. He went ballistic in the other thread when I did basically just that.

Karadon_II
08-12-2014, 05:06 AM
*tome

No, if he's wasting build points in Wisdom on a Pally then a tomb is what he needs indeed.

stoerm
08-12-2014, 05:48 AM
No tomes, no lesser reincarnation options for Bladeforged that are at least as good or superior to other races:

(1)

2 paladin / 18 sorcerer. 20 con, 18 cha. Standard sorcerer feats.

(2)


I went with 18pally/2fighter THF DOS III

str16/dex8/con16/int10/wis8/cha16 I believe were my starting stats for 32 pt.

feats taken: adm body, power attack, toughness, ic: slashing, thf, ithf, gthf, cleave, and will take great cleave at 18.

skill pts. I want to say concentration and balance.

(3)

First life adaptation of the juggernaut.

(4)

Your own single weapon fighting build with pally/artificer/x using bastard sword with shield or rune arm.

(5)

Centered 2HF fighter, i.e. Cetus lite.

psykopeta
08-12-2014, 09:43 AM
I have been grindin on trying to build this thing since I got the class on sale there stats are horrible. Warforged and Paladin don't belong in the same sentence. when i bought the thing I just thought it was a iconic Palladin. Not tin man the dum and clumsy and ugly this thing had 3 stats that are all wrong for a paladin constitution does not make a paladin if everything else stinks, So far every tomb I collected over the years and another 2k in points just to mediocre stats. I want my money back.

It would not have been so bad if I did not just rebuild my Pally monk rog human and know how easy the build could be I would just like to know how they got the nerve to sell this bucket of bolts. I mean 6 Wis and then right when u roll this clunker they have must have 11 wis just to stink and 14 to be mediocre. That is just plain not fair to sell a class paired with a 100% inappropriate race and then have the nerve to call it iconic when the only this iconic about this class is if u want a very ugly yard ornament.
I want my money back even if I only paid 50% because it has 0 value it should have came with a free +3 tomb set. not possible to build first time no tr unless u got a lots a cash to buy tombs, This toon reminds of a 72 ford pinto, a rusty bucket a bolts and just as ugly, remember this was one that is u got hit for behind at like 30 MPH blew up yep same as the BF ;-(

u are right, u shouldn't have bought an iconic class w/o knowing about the class, the race and the sinergy between, which is insane, must say, u lose 2 dex, but know what? u don't lose 2 cha, so in fact ur saves will be ALWAYS 1 fortitude and 1 will higher than a wf, only cause ur cha and 2 lvls of paladin

also u have recon as a sla, 1 single sla that crushes all the damm healing or repairing spells a paladin can have

so bf pally is really boosting a pally like mad

but hey, if u don't think that way is ok

imblo99
08-12-2014, 04:29 PM
Exactly what stat do you think is so important to your bladeforged paly? o.O

It not the blade forged that really is the problem its trying to multi class this class is very hard to to all its restriction unlike my human counterpart that I built. that It that it does not leave leftover points to work into better builds, Sure it works fine a suppose for just what it is, but that it just that and no more without tons a tombs. I am just comparing with my recent build of Pally/Monk/rog that had feats so many feats available so much better stats and so much better flexibility. I just expected more from a iconic class that having to only use it for a cookie cutter build to make it work,

From what I seen of this iconic its it just a way to skip 15 levels of play there is nothing I seen that was so off the hook that would make me spend the money to buy it. I can make much better builds without this class then with it. Sorry if that upsets folks but that was how I seen it. It was a waste of money. Its cost Vs. what u get makes it a very poor choice for me. Thats not to say that others won't like just fine like yourself.

Now the answer to your question

Dex: is very poor meaning if u are trying to get dodge it a pain, the TWF line is out right off it kills one line of defence and one in offence that limits choices.

Wis: Having to sink points here just to spell cast and having it start at 6 would not make warforged my first choice right off for any pally class and splashing or multi classes even more difficult and draws to many point out of the pool just for a mediocre ability.

redundant abilities Pallys gain immunity that the pally gains on it own so much of what's gained as a pally is not needed

CHr: well its a forge this it not one of it strong suits needed for much of the paladin abilities turning is just one there are tons of CHR abilities in a pally build that make the race of warforged not really suitable.

So here u have what would be my last choice in races for this class then they bundle it together and call it Iconic the worst possible race for it class

Really how many warforged pallies do u think were made before this class was made. Let me guess, none! Unless it was a very gear intense, tomb intense build mostly done by folks that collected gear from years of playing would make and it would be TR 2 or 3 even,

The big plus of the warforged is starting at 20 con so IMHO to use a forged in a build the first thing u do is push con to 20 then distribute the rest of the points, if the class can do that and have all its main feature then its right for a forged if not wrong class for forged con is it big plus if u dont get to use it why use it at all.

Really to have a warforged that has a starting Con for say 16 just about any race can do that so whats the reason for the forged

Int: Again I like having UMD I would say all CHR classes should have it u need to have INT to have the skill point to spend so you can have a decent skill point pool

With the demands in so many areas this thing is deficient there leaves no int to have skill points on my pallies UMD concentration, balance, jump and a bit of tumble, heal is need and is a pally skill. Repair is not a pally skill but its needed on every warforged

so here u have it


Con is the only stat this thing has that a pally should have but yet since it deficient is almost everything else there is not enough points to go around to make use of it.

So now what was the reason they picked the Warforged to go with the pally class. I can't find a reason

Hay if u like it great. I post my dislike for class as a whole. I would not have bought it I was not paying attention when I bought it. I was just coming back to the game after a long break and seen the cheap price and said great a iconic class then went to build it into a multi class build and Oh No this thing is terrible so I posted my displeasure with the class.

Yes it was my mistake but never the less I felt like I got burned

For me this was a bad choice hay if u like it great if it fits your needs but it dont fit mine

If you read in the forum many said the pally was a dead class years ago. I just don't see how bundling it up with the wrong race for the class helped that

Boombastic
08-12-2014, 04:56 PM
if you're sinking points into wisdom on a bladeforged for paladin spellcasting, you're doing it wrong

autochthon
08-12-2014, 05:11 PM
If you think Bladeforged have any weakness in Charisma you're blind. Bladeforged are no worse off than Human/Elf/Whatever

And the penalties to Wis and Dex are absolutely meaningless for a paladin. Heavy Armor. No need for better than a friggin 8 in base casting score.

Enoach
08-12-2014, 05:15 PM
...If you read in the forum many said the pally was a dead class years ago. I just don't see how bundling it up with the wrong race for the class helped that

I think this is a misunderstanding of what was intended for the Iconic Characters. I see these were not intended to be superior choices but to be ways for people to have a jump start into epics. Also each is more thematic more than they are optimal

We have the following:
Bladeforge - Paladin 1st Level
Followers of the Lord Of Blades - Part of his latest conquest to free Warforged from their place that is being relegated as 3rd Class Citizens.

Purple Dragon Knight - Fighter 1st Level
Knights of Cormyre - Protectors of Eveningstar

Shadar-Kai - Rogue 1st Level
Shadow rogues - assassins

Morninglord - Cleric 1st Level
High Elf clerics coming to Evenignstar's aide but more because of their distaste of the Drow.

Now I agree each Iconic could be better in different classes but it is the thematic that in my opinion make these the most fun.

imblo99
08-12-2014, 05:57 PM
If you think Bladeforged have any weakness in Charisma you're blind. Bladeforged are no worse off than Human/Elf/Whatever

And the penalties to Wis and Dex are absolutely meaningless for a paladin. Heavy Armor. No need for better than a friggin 8 in base casting score.


A base 8 anything bites its now the penalties to the stat itself its the point cost that pulls point that could be used elsewhere I try to have a min base of 10 on every stat with tombs all base 8 stat always get a tomb to make the 10 they all affect skills and the points to have decent skills

Like Heal, concentration balance UMD jump.

Ops u cant cast without 11 base Wis right? That what it said when I was building it and 14 is where it should be I am guessing since they say so when u are building it that don't include gear that means base Wis has to 11 not 8 and this starts out 6

sorry just not into gimp min max builds

I don't use heavy armor mithril is the only way to go medium heavy armor armor class medium armor dex way better I have lots collected for crafting

Plus you're missing my point it not so much if u go with the flow and make nice simple cookie cutter build pure pally it when u try to mix it up a bit this class becomes frustrating.

The other thing is it just not role fitting at all robot Knight

imblo99
08-12-2014, 06:11 PM
I think this is a misunderstanding of what was intended for the Iconic Characters. I see these were not intended to be superior choices but to be ways for people to have a jump start into epics. Also each is more thematic more than they are optimal

We have the following:
Bladeforge - Paladin 1st Level
Followers of the Lord Of Blades - Part of his latest conquest to free Warforged from their place that is being relegated as 3rd Class Citizens.

Purple Dragon Knight - Fighter 1st Level
Knights of Cormyre - Protectors of Eveningstar

Shadar-Kai - Rogue 1st Level
Shadow rogues - assassins

Morninglord - Cleric 1st Level
High Elf clerics coming to Evenignstar's aide but more because of their distaste of the Drow.

Now I agree each Iconic could be better in different classes but it is the thematic that in my opinion make these the most fun.

Ya that my bad on this too I seen the sale and thought since I was just coming back I had to have one of these new Iconic classes. I did not know they were just nothing more than short cuts to epics. I have no need for that, I have 25 characters and a 3rd of than are TR 20s so I don't need a shortcut to place I have a 12 or more characters already and I don't like skipping levels having so many TR builds I have to run everything 3 times for xp anyway.

I guess for me it was just a not need I just did not know and spent money for something I did not need. The name just make it sounds like the this awesome toon when there nothing special just a jump start. I just came back it was the last day of the sale so I bought it before reading what they are.

I guess for some its nice just not for an older player like me

imblo99
08-12-2014, 06:32 PM
u are right, u shouldn't have bought an iconic class w/o knowing about the class, the race and the sinergy between, which is insane, must say, u lose 2 dex, but know what? u don't lose 2 cha, so in fact ur saves will be ALWAYS 1 fortitude and 1 will higher than a wf, only cause ur cha and 2 lvls of paladin

also u have recon as a sla, 1 single sla that crushes all the damm healing or repairing spells a paladin can have

so bf pally is really boosting a pally like mad

but hey, if u don't think that way is ok

Hay u sound like u know what u are doing so ok say you're right the fact is I was just disappointed I spent the money I don't like the class and I will leave it at that. I really did not want it for the pally it was for a past life and to use in a multi class build that i just could not get it work out as far as wis i was just trying to get the 14 it said would be best for casting,

I was trying to version as first time build of the Sir stick a lot but trying to change it up a bit and take the THF line instead in his build using cleave and great cleave the build called for dodge that need 13 dex so it eats my points one wis and dex. Yes CHR has normal base but just cost more points to level. I just made a Human multi class build at it was so easy and had awesome stats without even trying I just expected more for the build I am going to just find some coolie cutter build and use that since I bought the stupid thing if nothing else its a bank toon

This class frustrated me and I vented

So just forget I was wrong but I still hate the class and still want my money back LOL

I should just let it slide No sense to just get everyone mad at me I was out of place and a bit

jalont
08-12-2014, 06:54 PM
I have ran many BF test builds for my main. These include: A Monkcher, A Fighter, A Monk, A Sorc, A Rogue, a Pally and an artie. There was very few tomes used, if any, and no LR. They all worked flawlessly in Epics. I even built a barb to test something but had to use a few LRs.

I really don't understand the problems listed in the OP.

Munkenmo
08-12-2014, 07:54 PM
I was trying to version as first time build of the Sir stick a lot but trying to change it up a bit and take the THF line instead in his build using cleave and great cleave the build called for dodge that need 13 dex so it eats my points one wis and dex. Yes CHR has normal base but just cost more points to level. I just made a Human multi class build at it was so easy and had awesome stats without even trying I just expected more for the build I am going to just find some coolie cutter build and use that since I bought the stupid thing if nothing else its a bank toon

This class frustrated me and I vented


So you want a 32point varient of the stick alot build? Preferably that uses thf instead of cleaves and minimal tome requirements?

Lets look at Stat allocation:

Str is your primary damage stat & 23 str is required for overwhelming critical so if we start with 17base, and invest all level ups in str you'll get 23 str ontime for your level 24 feat. 13/32 points used.

Dex = 13 required for the dodge & deflect feats & your reflex saves stat. Given you'll have charisma added to all saves I'd say focus on hitting 13dex by level 8, so you can factor in a +2 dex tome from favor rewards. 11 dex + 2 tome = 13; that's now 18/32 build points.

Con = hp & fort saves, this build has access to reconstruct, improved evasion, decent dodge & amazing saves, con imo isn't that important to this split, in higher levels you'll get enough hp from gear / ED's that dropping con won't matter. Start with 14 Con. 22/32 build points

Int is only useful for skills but with 5 rogue levels it'd be rude not to try squeeze trapping in, this should be possible 12 int and careful skill selection; 26/32 build points

Wisdom: 6 paladin = only level 1 spells, with 6base wisdom and a +5 wisdom item you'll be able to cast all paladin level 1 spells. The spells divine favor and Protection from evil are useful and worth casting, & wisdom also benefits your will saves. With castable protection from evil & cha to augment your saves, Wisdom is not good enough for this split to justify investing build points in, so base 6 wisdom is fine. (26/32 build points)

Charisma : all saves, divine might & umd, definitely worth atleast a 1:1 investment, so with 14 charisma = you'll have used 32/32 points.

To answer your OP: Yes it is possible to build a bladeforged without investing an extra arm and a leg, all that's required is knowledge and prioritization:
Below is a build with all thf feats, both cleaves, qualifies for overwhelming crit. It's also managed to fit in 23ranks in umd, search & disable.

All you need to do is get a +2 dex tome from favor rewards or the AH, by level 8.

http://i.imgur.com/Fkd2Zw7.png

http://i.imgur.com/GW6T7VF.png

autochthon
08-12-2014, 09:10 PM
A base 8 anything bites its now the penalties to the stat itself its the point cost that pulls point that could be used elsewhere I try to have a min base of 10 on every stat with tombs all base 8 stat always get a tomb to make the 10 they all affect skills and the points to have decent skills
Given that BF is possibly the most powerful non-Cleric/Druid race in the game, and the fact that a base 10 in every stat is completely unnecessary, what the hell is there to complain about.

As the most powerful charisma caster in the game, the best paladin in the game, arguably the best fighter or barbarian. With the closest thing to a downside being "low wisdom and dexterity" and a favored class requiring for all intents and purposes neither and having AMAZING multiclass synergy as one of the best two point dips in the game.


Like Heal, concentration balance UMD jump.The first is useless (bladeforged). The second is mediocre (useless unless you multiclass into a caster). The third is OK. UMD is debatable, your heal is an SLA and you can already equip most of the good stuff leaving basically arcane spells (which you won't be casting). Jump caps to 40 and is near trivial to get there.

So what was that about needing skills again?


Ops u cant cast without 11 base Wis right? That what it said when I was building it and 14 is where it should be I am guessing since they say so when u are building it that don't include gear that means base Wis has to 11 not 8 and this starts out 6 You need precisely 2 points spent in wisdom. Enhancement score or potions of owl's wisdom gets you the rest of the way. You have no offensive spells worth mentioning so you're only casting for utility.


sorry just not into gimp min max builds Minmax is the opposite of gimp.


I don't use heavy armor mithril is the only way to go medium heavy armor armor class medium armor dex way better I have lots collected for crafting See armor changes. See the fact that adamantine is strictly superior outside of a 2 point rogue splash. Given that that the only competition with adamantine is evasion. Dodge is supplementary at best when you're capping your max dex bonus to what 5? Yah so much you've gained.


Plus you're missing my point it not so much if u go with the flow and make nice simple cookie cutter build pure pally it when u try to mix it up a bit this class becomes frustrating.You mean as the best multiclassing paladin race. The best Sorcerer race. The second best Wizard (by virtue of self healing). Near best fighter (by virtue of self healing). And the best Paladin race... By virtue of bonus DR, bonus saves, bonus healing, and some of the best frontline racial enhancements in the game. Yah terrible for "mixing it up"


The other thing is it just not role fitting at all robot Knight
You know. Other tahn the fact that it's PnP canon and a huge friggin thematic hook in the PnP to boot.

So this all boils down to you being unhappy your unrealistic goals of base stats at character creation can't be met trivially. So go play Drow. And unhappy because you didn't bother to do any research at all before your purchase. Look at the wiki next time.

Iconics are supposed to be thematically focused, not the best races but the races best for a certain theme. And Bladeforged are the best paladins and sorcerers in the game.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 03:52 AM
Given that BF is possibly the most powerful non-Cleric/Druid race in the game, and the fact that a base 10 in every stat is completely unnecessary, what the hell is there to complain about.

I personally like to have a minimum base 10 in every stat too AND seeing a Paladin with a 6 Wisdom does offend my 2nd Ed. sensibilities.
BUT
This is DDO - +Stat items drop like candy! And it's absolutely true that an 8 Wis and a +6 Wis item will allow you to cast EVERY Paladin Spell at Lvl 14 and up {and +6 stat items are available at Min Lvl 11 / 9 with Masterful Craftmanship or a Curse!}.

You can also take the Force of Personallity Feat to use your Charisma for your Will Saves!

A Base 8 Wisdom is the absolute MAX a Paladin needs in DDO!


As the most powerful charisma caster in the game, the best paladin in the game, arguably the best fighter or barbarian. With the closest thing to a downside being "low wisdom and dexterity" and a favored class requiring for all intents and purposes neither and having AMAZING multiclass synergy as one of the best two point dips in the game.

Not sure about Barbarian - That does require an Alignment Change as well as a +Lesser Heart!
And H-Orcs, Dwarves and Humans don't make bad Barbs either.


The first is useless (bladeforged). The second is mediocre (useless unless you multiclass into a caster). The third is OK. UMD is debatable, your heal is an SLA and you can already equip most of the good stuff leaving basically arcane spells (which you won't be casting). Jump caps to 40 and is near trivial to get there.

Heal isn't useless to a Bladeforged - They do get LoH!
And the OP did miss out Repair!

With a 23 Base Str for Overwhelming Crit and a Jump Pot the OP won't even need to put a single point into Jump!


You know. Other tahn the fact that it's PnP canon and a huge friggin thematic hook in the PnP to boot.

So this all boils down to you being unhappy your unrealistic goals of base stats at character creation can't be met trivially. So go play Drow. And unhappy because you didn't bother to do any research at all before your purchase. Look at the wiki next time.

Iconics are supposed to be thematically focused, not the best races but the races best for a certain theme. And Bladeforged are the best paladins and sorcerers in the game.

I actually consider Bladeforged to be the only TRUE Iconic Race the Devs have given us!

PDK is a Prestige and I don't like that the Devs have made it Only Humans allowed - Cormyr may be a mainly Human Nation but I've seen nothing in PnP to state that Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc. couldn't become Knights of the Purple Dragon!

Morninglords are Grey Elves and should have +2 Int as well as +2 Dex NOT +2 Wis and zilch for Dex!
Lathander Morninglord is also NOT an Elven God! He is a Realms God worshipped by Humans and other good races too!

Shadar-Kai - There is absolutely NOTHING Iconic about Shadar-Kai other than that the Female Co-Star of the Book of Vile Darkness movie released at the same time as MotU was one!
Tieflings, Gith Pirates, Halflings - All would have been better options for an Iconic Rogue!

Whereas Bladeforged Paladins are absolutely Iconic to Eberron!

autochthon
08-13-2014, 06:03 AM
I personally like to have a minimum base 10 in every stat too AND seeing a Paladin with a 6 Wisdom does offend my 2nd Ed. sensibilities.
BUT
This is DDO - +Stat items drop like candy! And it's absolutely true that an 8 Wis and a +6 Wis item will allow you to cast EVERY Paladin Spell at Lvl 14 and up {and +6 stat items are available at Min Lvl 11 / 9 with Masterful Craftmanship or a Curse!}.

You can also take the Force of Personallity Feat to use your Charisma for your Will Saves!

A Base 8 Wisdom is the absolute MAX a Paladin needs in DDO!Which is the point. Wis is very nearly a dump stat for a paladin, while dex can easily be considered one. Hell even if you dump Dex and Wis both your saves will be fine by virtue of divine grace, and your evasion will be fine too. And dodge... Well just about everything will be just fine. Weird isn't it.




Not sure about Barbarian - That does require an Alignment Change as well as a +Lesser Heart!
And H-Orcs, Dwarves and Humans don't make bad Barbs either.True and true. But mechanically they're one of the best, obviously gighter would be the first choice overbarb but barbs are in a bad place right now anyway.




Heal isn't useless to a Bladeforged - They do get LoH!
And the OP did miss out Repair!Ehhhhh LoH has such a great base healing potential that I don't see Heal as a big deal. And missing out on repair is his own fault, there aren't exactly a huge amount of skills that he needs to be investing in. Though realistically the bonus spellpower gained form investing in the skill is a very small fraction of the total spellpower you gain.


With a 23 Base Str for Overwhelming Crit and a Jump Pot the OP won't even need to put a single point into Jump!Exactly.




I actually consider Bladeforged to be the only TRUE Iconic Race the Devs have given us!

PDK is a Prestige and I don't like that the Devs have made it Only Humans allowed - Cormyr may be a mainly Human Nation but I've seen nothing in PnP to state that Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc. couldn't become Knights of the Purple Dragon!

Morninglords are Grey Elves and should have +2 Int as well as +2 Dex NOT +2 Wis and zilch for Dex!
Lathander Morninglord is also NOT an Elven God! He is a Realms God worshipped by Humans and other good races too!

Shadar-Kai - There is absolutely NOTHING Iconic about Shadar-Kai other than that the Female Co-Star of the Book of Vile Darkness movie released at the same time as MotU was one!
Tieflings, Gith Pirates, Halflings - All would have been better options for an Iconic Rogue!

Whereas Bladeforged Paladins are absolutely Iconic to Eberron!

While tehy haven't been super PnP-centric the other iconic races are at least interesting.

PDKs are almost exclusively human (because of the predominance of humans in Cormyr and special penalties)

Morninglords got stats associated with their class rather than the grey elf race. And of course you don't have to be an elf to be a morninglord, even less so than it takes being a human to be a PDK.

Shadar-kai are weird.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 06:44 AM
Ehhhhh LoH has such a great base healing potential that I don't see Heal as a big deal. And missing out on repair is his own fault, there aren't exactly a huge amount of skills that he needs to be investing in. Though realistically the bonus spellpower gained form investing in the skill is a very small fraction of the total spellpower you gain.

On a Bladeforged? No...You need that extra Spellpower for LoH to be useful! Of course you can make it up with a Devotion item But Base? Nah!

And Repair is an absolute must and for BF/WF does what Heal does for fleshies!


While tehy haven't been super PnP-centric the other iconic races are at least interesting.

PDKs are almost exclusively human (because of the predominance of humans in Cormyr and special penalties)

Note the "almost"
DDO has made it exclusive!

PDK should have been the 3rd Fighter Prestige!


Morninglords got stats associated with their class rather than the grey elf race.

Yes and they got shortchanged there too!

Cleric Base Class and what do they get? +2 Int! Which by the way comes from the Grey Elf Race!

Even though Elves aren't Iconically Clerics - Dwarves and Humans have always been the go-to races in PnP for that class - A Cleric Iconic for Elves wasn't in itself a completely terrible idea {bad yes as not iconic but not terrible.}.
However: Morninglords SHOULD have their full bonuses and penalties i.e. +2 Int & Dex, -2 Str & Con and perhaps be allowed through Enhancements to use Int or Cha instead of Wis as their casting stat.
The Devs could have made them the go to Race for Caster Clerics/FvSs/Sorcs and Wizards along with Drow

Then they could make a Dwarf Champion Iconic Battle Cleric! {Which could also be a strong choice for Paladin, FvS, Druid, Fighter and Barb}.


Shadar-kai are weird.

Yep!

autochthon
08-13-2014, 07:09 AM
On a Bladeforged? No...You need that extra Spellpower for LoH to be useful! Of course you can make it up with a Devotion item But Base? Nah!It works out to like 23 power from levels. Vs the 30 you can have by level 3 on gear. The 20+ possible if you wore Wis gear (not happening but you get the point). For a skill that heals (10+Level)*Cha Mod

You're going to scale it far better by popping a +Cha clickie (or wearing +Cha gear) which has the side effect of being good for saves and such. Hell 30 Cha at level 20 means 300 points of heal off LoH without needing any spellpower. I think giving up the few points won't cripple you.


And Repair is an absolute must and for BF/WF does what Heal does for fleshies!
Does being BF make repair a paladin skill. Because it's not by default, which means like 11 points in repair. Which is basically nothing compared to the raw available repair on gear at level 2.

Generally speaking hard points in the spellpower skills don't provide an exceptional amount of your total spellpower. It's especially egregious with maximizable spells but even other spells show the mediocrity.



Note the "almost"
DDO has made it exclusive!For NPCs (the icons) it's essentially exclusive in PnP


PDK should have been the 3rd Fighter Prestige!This I could go with. If only because "Cha attacker with some party buffs" should be a paladin >.>


Yes and they got shortchanged there too!

Cleric Base Class and what do they get? +2 Int! Which by the way comes from the Grey Elf Race!

Even though Elves aren't Iconically Clerics - Dwarves and Humans have always been the go-to races in PnP for that class - A Cleric Iconic for Elves wasn't in itself a completely terrible idea {bad yes as not iconic but not terrible.}.
However: Morninglords SHOULD have their full bonuses and penalties i.e. +2 Int & Dex, -2 Str & Con and perhaps be allowed through Enhancements to use Int or Cha instead of Wis as their casting stat.
The Devs could have made them the go to Race for Caster Clerics/FvSs/Sorcs and Wizards along with Drow They're sun elves not grey elves. Looked it up even.


Then they could make a Dwarf Champion Iconic Battle Cleric! {Which could also be a strong choice for Paladin, FvS, Druid, Fighter and Barb}.

Honestly I want Dwarven Defender being a dwarf racial tree (like arcane archer is for elves). But that's neither here nor there atm. And maybe extending bladeforged repair spell bonus to all divine classes rather than just paladin (fits thematically).

Impaqt
08-13-2014, 08:36 AM
It not the blade forged that really is the problem its trying to multi class this class is very hard to to all its restriction unlike my human counterpart that I built. that It that it does not leave leftover points to work into better builds, Sure it works fine a suppose for just what it is, but that it just that and no more without tons a tombs. I am just comparing with my recent build of Pally/Monk/rog that had feats so many feats available so much better stats and so much better flexibility. I just expected more from a iconic class that having to only use it for a cookie cutter build to make it work,

From what I seen of this iconic its it just a way to skip 15 levels of play there is nothing I seen that was so off the hook that would make me spend the money to buy it. I can make much better builds without this class then with it. Sorry if that upsets folks but that was how I seen it. It was a waste of money. Its cost Vs. what u get makes it a very poor choice for me. Thats not to say that others won't like just fine like yourself.

Now the answer to your question

Dex: is very poor meaning if u are trying to get dodge it a pain, the TWF line is out right off it kills one line of defence and one in offence that limits choices.

Most melee is better off with THF anyway. Saves are not generally an issue with a paly so Dex is truely a dump stat whether you minmax or play balanced builds..



Wis: Having to sink points here just to spell cast and having it start at 6 would not make warforged my first choice right off for any pally class and splashing or multi classes even more difficult and draws to many point out of the pool just for a mediocre ability.

you dont have to. Paladins cast no DC based spells. Item based Stat increases are incredibly common in this game and absolutely count towards casting requirements. That being said, if you play balanced builds instead of "gimp min max builds" youhave plenty to add a few points here.



redundant abilities Pallys gain immunity that the pally gains on it own so much of what's gained as a pally is not needed

CHr: well its a forge this it not one of it strong suits needed for much of the paladin abilities turning is just one there are tons of CHR abilities in a pally build that make the race of warforged not really suitable.

your Wonderful Human and this horrible bladeforges start at the EXACT SAME base Charisma. :rolleyes:



So here u have what would be my last choice in races for this class then they bundle it together and call it Iconic the worst possible race for it class

Really how many warforged pallies do u think were made before this class was made. Let me guess, none! Unless it was a very gear intense, tomb intense build mostly done by folks that collected gear from years of playing would make and it would be TR 2 or 3 even,

actually there were quite a few because most people realize that base stats mean very little in this game. The min/max builds dont excell simply because they start out with 2 points of strength. It takes work, regardless of the build, to be good.



The big plus of the warforged is starting at 20 con so IMHO to use a forged in a build the first thing u do is push con to 20 then distribute the rest of the points, if the class can do that and have all its main feature then its right for a forged if not wrong class for forged con is it big plus if u dont get to use it why use it at all.

rofl. So your not into Min/max, but your going to waste all those points on Con on a class that gets a D10 HP and significant HP Enhancements?!?!?!!! no. just no.



Really to have a warforged that has a starting Con for say 16 just about any race can do that so whats the reason for the forged

Int: Again I like having UMD I would say all CHR classes should have it u need to have INT to have the skill point to spend so you can have a decent skill point pool

With the demands in so many areas this thing is deficient there leaves no int to have skill points on my pallies UMD concentration, balance, jump and a bit of tumble, heal is need and is a pally skill. Repair is not a pally skill but its needed on every warforged

What do you think you need UMD For? You are not casting offensive spells so there is no need for COncentration. Balance is handy, but not critical imo. Jump is a low cap skill and pretty pointless to drop a bunch of points into. Tumble is pretty much completely useless. Heal is not "need". Repair, again, ight be nice, but 11 points isnt going to make or break a build.



so here u have it


Con is the only stat this thing has that a pally should have but yet since it deficient is almost everything else there is not enough points to go around to make use of it.

So now what was the reason they picked the Warforged to go with the pally class. I can't find a reason

Hay if u like it great. I post my dislike for class as a whole. I would not have bought it I was not paying attention when I bought it. I was just coming back to the game after a long break and seen the cheap price and said great a iconic class then went to build it into a multi class build and Oh No this thing is terrible so I posted my displeasure with the class.

Yes it was my mistake but never the less I felt like I got burned

For me this was a bad choice hay if u like it great if it fits your needs but it dont fit mine

If you read in the forum many said the pally was a dead class years ago. I just don't see how bundling it up with the wrong race for the class helped that

Your complaints are full of holes and your reasoning is contradictory. if your really were not into min/max, a starting stat distibution of 16/6/16/10/10/16 works wonderfully for a "Balanced Paladin"

The Iconic classes were never about making the best pure class default class toon. Paladin splash builds are everywhere. Bladeforged excels in that category due to self repair.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 11:29 AM
They're sun elves not grey elves. Looked it up even.

You didn't look close enough then as Sun or Gold Elves are just Forgotten Realms names for the D&D Grey Elf {though irritatingly Realms also swaps around the names High and Grey - Sun Elves however have the stats of Grey Elves!}.

Moon or Silver Elves {Sometimes annoyingly called Grey Elves} are actually High Elves by stats!


Honestly I want Dwarven Defender being a dwarf racial tree (like arcane archer is for elves). But that's neither here nor there atm. And maybe extending bladeforged repair spell bonus to all divine classes rather than just paladin (fits thematically).

Dwarven Defender is a Pure Fighter though.

Champion is a Fighter/Cleric!
Battlecleric Supreme if you will!

Taking the Bladeforged ability to Reconstruct the Devs could give Mountain Dwarves {as opposed to the Base Hill Dwarf} a Heal Enhancement to allow for 19 Fighter/1 Cleric etc.

Also - 2nd Ed. gave Mountain Dwarves basically the same stats as Hill Dwarves {Both got +1 Con/-1 Cha But Mountain Dwarves were slightly taller and heavier.}.
I don't know how 3rd Ed. treated the Dwarves.
However I feel DDO could give Cormyr's Mountain Dwarves +2 Wis and -2 Dex to balance them out and make them distinctly different to Base DDO Eberron Dwarves.

autochthon
08-13-2014, 12:23 PM
You didn't look close enough then as Sun or Gold Elves are just Forgotten Realms names for the D&D Grey Elf {though irritatingly Realms also swaps around the names High and Grey - Sun Elves however have the stats of Grey Elves!}.

Moon or Silver Elves {Sometimes annoyingly called Grey Elves} are actually High Elves by stats!http://dndtools.eu/races/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/sun-elf--70/

Sun Elves are most definitely +2 Int -2Con in FR 3.0, which is the most recent book to actually stat them out. Unless you can point out a 3.5 book I overlooked.




Dwarven Defender is a Pure Fighter though.

Champion is a Fighter/Cleric!
Battlecleric Supreme if you will!Oh. You mean a warpriest? We have that. Dwarves are pretty good at it already.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 03:35 PM
http://dndtools.eu/races/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/sun-elf--70/

Sun Elves are most definitely +2 Int -2Con in FR 3.0, which is the most recent book to actually stat them out. Unless you can point out a 3.5 book I overlooked.

And High Elves are +2 Dex / -2 Con!

Sun or Gold {Sometimes known as High} Elves in Forgotten Realms are actually D&Ds Grey Elves stats wise - That is +2 Int/+1 Dex/-1 Str/-2 Con
Moon or Silver {Sometimes known as Grey} Elves in Forgotten Realms are actually D&Ds High {or basic} Elves stats wise - That is +1 Dex/-1 Con

From The Complete Book of Elves:

The first subrace is that of the gold elves.
Some also call them sunrise elves or high
elves, although they do not closely resemble
the standard high elves and, indeed, seem
more like grey elves.
and:

The second subrace is known variously as
moon, silver, or grey elves, although again the
name is the main similarity to the typical grey
elf. They more closely resemble high elves
than grey elves, which is not surprising since
the nomadic high elves settled Toril. They are
the most common of elves on this world, or at
least the variety most often seen by non-elves.

But anyway...3rd Ed.? Eurrrrghh!
Take that disgusting pile of trash and throw it down the deepest pit you can find!


Oh. You mean a warpriest? We have that. Dwarves are pretty good at it already.

No...A Warpriest is a Cleric Prestige - A Dwarven Champion is a Multiclass Dwarf Specific Fighter/Cleric!

Yes Dwarves in DDO can use the Warpriest Prestige BUT Elves in DDO can do the same and we still got Morninglords!

Boombastic
08-13-2014, 03:55 PM
And High Elves are +2 Dex / -2 Con!

Sun or Gold {Sometimes known as High} Elves in Forgotten Realms are actually D&Ds Grey Elves stats wise - That is +2 Int/+1 Dex/-1 Str/-2 Con
Moon or Silver {Sometimes known as Grey} Elves in Forgotten Realms are actually D&Ds High {or basic} Elves stats wise - That is +1 Dex/-1 Con

From The Complete Book of Elves:

and:


But anyway...3rd Ed.? Eurrrrghh!
Take that disgusting pile of trash and throw it down the deepest pit you can find!



No...A Warpriest is a Cleric Prestige - A Dwarven Champion is a Multiclass Dwarf Specific Fighter/Cleric!

Yes Dwarves in DDO can use the Warpriest Prestige BUT Elves in DDO can do the same and we still got Morninglords!

DDO is mostly based upon 3rd edtion forgotten realms and eberron. In Forgotten realms sun elves=/=grey elves. If you had followed the link and did a little exploring you would have realized that. I find it incredibly amusing of your disgust of 3rd edition, yet you're playing a game that, in its inception, was largely based upon it.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 05:20 PM
DDO is mostly based upon 3rd edtion forgotten realms and eberron. In Forgotten realms sun elves=/=grey elves. If you had followed the link and did a little exploring you would have realized that. I find it incredibly amusing of your disgust of 3rd edition, yet you're playing a game that, in its inception, was largely based upon it.

1) DDO is based on 3.5 NOT 3rd Ed.!

2) Yes Sun Elves = Grey Elves - That's what I said!!!

3) DDO is a computer game - Despite the fact that I wish to heaven 3rd Ed. had never seen the light of day in PnP - The Skill Based system works fine in a Computer Game.

4) DDO's Forgotten Realms material is more based on 4th Ed+ than 3.5 and definitely way beyond that abomination 3rd Ed.

Boombastic
08-13-2014, 06:49 PM
1) DDO is based on 3.5 NOT 3rd Ed.!

2) Yes Sun Elves = Grey Elves - That's what I said!!!

3) DDO is a computer game - Despite the fact that I wish to heaven 3rd Ed. had never seen the light of day in PnP - The Skill Based system works fine in a Computer Game.

4) DDO's Forgotten Realms material is more based on 4th Ed+ than 3.5 and definitely way beyond that abomination 3rd Ed.

......no, just no. First off, without 3rd ed, there would have been no 3.5. 2nd, grey elves get +2 int and dex, -2 str and con while sun elves get +2 int -2 con, ergo sun elf =/= grey elf, despite the similarity in stats. The simple fact that you think 4th edition is good, compared to 3.5, and even 3.0, is laughable and bad, and you should feel bad for having those thoughts.

autochthon
08-13-2014, 07:12 PM
And High Elves are +2 Dex / -2 Con!

Sun or Gold {Sometimes known as High} Elves in Forgotten Realms are actually D&Ds Grey Elves stats wise - That is +2 Int/+1 Dex/-1 Str/-2 Con
Moon or Silver {Sometimes known as Grey} Elves in Forgotten Realms are actually D&Ds High {or basic} Elves stats wise - That is +1 Dex/-1 ConNot according to the only official 3rd edition era Faerun Races guide. Which I linked.





No...A Warpriest is a Cleric Prestige - A Dwarven Champion is a Multiclass Dwarf Specific Fighter/Cleric!

Yes Dwarves in DDO can use the Warpriest Prestige BUT Elves in DDO can do the same and we still got Morninglords!And the effects of the Dwarven Champion are very much captured by the Warpriest, a cleric that acquires a number of fighter qualities. Don't get caught up on names.
(Edit: And dwarven champion doesnt even exist in 3e as far as I can tell. any 3e. This isn't ADnD or 2e)



......no, just no. First off, without 3rd ed, there would have been no 3.5. 2nd, grey elves get +2 int and dex, -2 str and con while sun elves get +2 int -2 con, ergo sun elf =/= grey elf, despite the similarity in stats. The simple fact that you think 4th edition is good, compared to 3.5, and even 3.0, is laughable and bad, and you should feel bad for having those thoughts.

4th edition is better than 3e at a number of things. It's only bad at certain subsets of things that 3e players put a lot of emphasis on (modular min/max). It's almost strictly more fun at early levels since you get more tools and less cumbersome mechanics. The scaling is off but meh.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 07:18 PM
......no, just no. First off, without 3rd ed, there would have been no 3.5. 2nd, grey elves get +2 int and dex, -2 str and con while sun elves get +2 int -2 con, ergo sun elf =/= grey elf, despite the similarity in stats. The simple fact that you think 4th edition is good, compared to 3.5, and even 3.0, is laughable and bad, and you should feel bad for having those thoughts.

1) 3rd Ed. was a disaster! 3.5 was rushed out because of this!

2) Sun Elves are Grey Elves! 3rd Ed. doesn't count!

3) Did I say 4th Ed was good? No I didn't!

4) A Skill Based System works for Computer Games and it worked for many PnP RPGs Pre 3rd Ed. too BUT D&D was not one of those RPGs! D&D Lasted for over 25 years with minimal changes to the system!
3rd Ed. was the Death of D&D - 3.5 and Pathfinder are NOT D&D! - 4th Ed. 5th Ed. Next etc. etc. Who Cares!
DDO however is the closest thing to D&D left! And frankly 1st and 2nd Ed rules would never have translated to computer gaming - You only have to look at the early 90s attempts like Icewind Dale and Pools of Radiance to see that!

One of the biggest complaints about 4th Ed. I've heard off 3.5 Players is that WotC tried to make D&D PnP into WoW - Well that's how I feel about 3rd Ed.! {Only WoW wasn't around back then!}.
They... TSR as well as WotC were attempting to catch up with massively popular games like MtG and Vampire ignorant of the facts that those games became so popular for other reasons than their systems {MtG was nowhere near as good a game as Spellfire and the D10 System Vampire used was simply horrendous!}.

But the biggest problem I have with 3rd Ed. is stupid lore changes like the one you're citing above!

Sun, Gold and High Elf are all different Forgotten Realms names for the exact same race! Grey Elf!
Just like Moon, Silver and Grey Elf all = High Elf!

Don't even get me started on the Spellplague or Lolth {a Demon/Demigod of a species that keeps its numbers short through barely contained anarchy becoming Uber Greater God of All Evil!}.

Oh and I was never really a fan of the Realms anyway - I always preferred Spelljammer and Dark Sun!



I've grown used to DDO over the past 4 years but I will never again play any edition of PnP other than {my own personal House Ruled} 2nd Ed.!
Which as that means I have to be the DM basically means I will never again get to play D&D PnP {Unless I can find someone exactly like me!}.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 07:29 PM
Not according to the only official 3rd edition era Faerun Races guide. Which I linked.

That's where your problem lies - You're linking the disaster known as 3rd Ed.!


And the effects of the Dwarven Champion are very much captured by the Warpriest, a cleric that acquires a number of fighter qualities. Don't get caught up on names.

Sorry but no - Warpriest is all well and good and I'm exceedingly glad that Clerics have finally after all these years got some love from the Devs {though I still don't think it's anywhere near enough!}.
BUT
I'm talking about Iconics NOT Prestiges!

And I could say exactly the same about Morninglords and Radiant Servant/Warpriest - Either would work.
Or about Shadar-Kai and Assassin! - Who needs Shadar-Kai when you can make an H-Elf Assassin - Apart from the Chain {which we all know is only uber for the mobs in DDO!} and their Emo looks - There's nothing substantially different about Shadar-Kai!

Bladeforged if you take away the Reconstruct Enhancement are pretty much WF with Spikes!
And
PDK - Well that should have been the 3rd Fighter Prestige anyway!

Whereas Dwarven Champion is a truly Iconic MULTI-CLASS D&D Icon!
That with its own racial enhancement tree, use of a second Dwarf race with judicious changes to fit DDO and ability to merge Warpriest with Stalwart or Radiant with Kensai etc. could be something truly special!


4th edition is better than 3e at a number of things. It's only bad at certain subsets of things that 3e players put a lot of emphasis on (modular min/max). It's almost strictly more fun at early levels since you get more tools and less cumbersome mechanics. The scaling is off but meh.

3rd, 3.5, 4th, 5th, 6th, 191st!
None of them are D&D!

autochthon
08-13-2014, 07:31 PM
1) 3rd Ed. was a disaster! 3.5 was rushed out because of this!Doesn't matter. DDO is based almost exclusively on 3.5


2) Sun Elves are Grey Elves! 3rd Ed. doesn't count!Not in DDO because DDO isn;t based on 2e


3) Did I say 4th Ed was good? No I didn't!

4) A Skill Based System works for Computer Games and it worked for many PnP RPGs Pre 3rd Ed. too BUT D&D was not one of those RPGs! D&D Lasted for over 25 years with minimal changes to the system!
3rd Ed. was the Death of D&D - 3.5 and Pathfinder are NOT D&D! - 4th Ed. 5th Ed. Next etc. etc. Who Cares!
DDO however is the closest thing to D&D left! And frankly 1st and 2nd Ed rules would never have translated to computer gaming - You only have to look at the early 90s attempts like Icewind Dale and Pools of Radiance to see that!If you don;t think 3e is DnD then stop playing DDO. It's 3.5e


One of the biggest complaints about 4th Ed. I've heard off 3.5 Players is that WotC tried to make D&D PnP into WoW - Well that's how I feel about 3rd Ed.! {Only WoW wasn't around back then!}.
They... TSR as well as WotC were attempting to catch up with massively popular games like MtG and Vampire ignorant of the facts that those games became so popular for other reasons than their systems {MtG was nowhere near as good a game as Spellfire and the D10 System Vampire used was simply horrendous!}.The only problem 3e hardcore players really gave with 4e is that they removed modularity in favor of defined kits. It works extremely well, and even better than other DnD games, for what it's good at. It just doesn't feel like DnD. Personally I like 3e, Pathfinder, and 4e.


But the biggest problem I have with 3rd Ed. is stupid lore changes like the one you're citing above!

Sun, Gold and High Elf are all different Forgotten Realms names for the exact same race! Grey Elf!
Just like Moon, Silver and Grey Elf all = High Elf!

Don't even get me started on the Spellplague or Lolth {a Demon/Demigod of a species that keeps its numbers short through barely contained anarchy becoming Uber Greater God of All Evil!}.

Oh and I was never really a fan of the Realms anyway - I always preferred Spelljammer and Dark Sun!You're perfectly welcome to not play the 3e abomination that is DDO


I've grown used to DDO over the past 4 years but I will never again play any edition of PnP other than {my own personal House Ruled} 2nd Ed.!
Which as that means I have to be the DM basically means I will never again get to play D&D PnP {Unless I can find someone exactly like me!}.That's your problem. If you want to play an outdated overly cumbersome terribly balanced system that's your choice.

But over here things are based on a more stable, less cumbersome, more balanced system.

FranOhmsford
08-13-2014, 07:59 PM
Doesn't matter. DDO is based almost exclusively on 3.5

And as I've said - That's not a problem for DDO as system wise despite its faults as a PnP game it was designed to facilitate bringing D&D to the world of Computers and in that it's done pretty well.

However - DDO has made many changes over the years from PnP and we've all heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth about these changes so NO DDO is not 3.5 and hasn't been for a very long time!


Not in DDO because DDO isn;t based on 2e

I've said this before and I'll say it again - I really don't understand why the Devs will take ideas from 4th Ed. 5th Ed. WoW etc. etc. But won't look back at what was done well in the past!

I know this has a lot to do with WotC's wish to bury the real Dungeons and Dragons where no-one can find it BUT that's what makes it so wrong!


If you don;t think 3e is DnD then stop playing DDO. It's 3.5e

DDO is a completely different game in a completely different world - the world of Computers that is!

You're comparing Apples to Oranges here - I came to DDO fully expecting to hate it! Instead I found myself hooked within an hour and have played Daily ever since!
Still doesn't stop me making suggestions to make it better though!


The only problem 3e hardcore players really gave with 4e is that they removed modularity in favor of defined kits. It works extremely well, and even better than other DnD games, for what it's good at. It just doesn't feel like DnD. Personally I like 3e, Pathfinder, and 4e.

Maybe the ones you've talked to - The ones who introduced me to DDO {Yes they were and are 3.5 players} won't touch 4th Ed. with a Bargepole!
And the #1 complaint was {and still is} that they were WoWising D&D


That's your problem. If you want to play an outdated overly cumbersome terribly balanced system that's your choice.

Lol - This coming from someone who likes 3rd Ed./3.5!


But over here things are based on a more stable, less cumbersome, more balanced system.

Lol indeed.

Balanced? 3.5? Yeah right!

Less Cumbersome? Really? With how many books {both authorised and 3rd Party}?

You're clutching at straws now.


Still - I'm never going to like 3.5 - I've tried to play it and frankly it's a Min/Maxers dream but a roleplayer's nightmare!
I tried Star Wars D2O back in I believe the 3rd Ed. days {though it could have been at the very start of 3.5} and absolutely hated it! {and I actually thought the Skill Based system so reminiscent of many Sci-Fi RPGs would suit Star Wars!}.
I've tried Pathfinder and that was just about playable {though only just!}.

However - None of that matters for DDO as DDO is NOT a Pen N Paper RPG and therefore lives by entirely different rules!

stoerm
08-14-2014, 01:51 AM
2nd edition was awful.

Can we lock this thread now?

autochthon
08-14-2014, 06:48 AM
Can we lock this thread now?

Probably a good idea before it becomes any more negative.

imblo99
08-23-2014, 01:45 AM
So you want a 32point varient of the stick alot build? Preferably that uses thf instead of cleaves and minimal tome requirements?

Lets look at Stat allocation:

Str is your primary damage stat & 23 str is required for overwhelming critical so if we start with 17base, and invest all level ups in str you'll get 23 str ontime for your level 24 feat. 13/32 points used.

Dex = 13 required for the dodge & deflect feats & your reflex saves stat. Given you'll have charisma added to all saves I'd say focus on hitting 13dex by level 8, so you can factor in a +2 dex tome from favor rewards. 11 dex + 2 tome = 13; that's now 18/32 build points.

Con = hp & fort saves, this build has access to reconstruct, improved evasion, decent dodge & amazing saves, con imo isn't that important to this split, in higher levels you'll get enough hp from gear / ED's that dropping con won't matter. Start with 14 Con. 22/32 build points

Int is only useful for skills but with 5 rogue levels it'd be rude not to try squeeze trapping in, this should be possible 12 int and careful skill selection; 26/32 build points

Wisdom: 6 paladin = only level 1 spells, with 6base wisdom and a +5 wisdom item you'll be able to cast all paladin level 1 spells. The spells divine favor and Protection from evil are useful and worth casting, & wisdom also benefits your will saves. With castable protection from evil & cha to augment your saves, Wisdom is not good enough for this split to justify investing build points in, so base 6 wisdom is fine. (26/32 build points)

Charisma : all saves, divine might & umd, definitely worth atleast a 1:1 investment, so with 14 charisma = you'll have used 32/32 points.

To answer your OP: Yes it is possible to build a bladeforged without investing an extra arm and a leg, all that's required is knowledge and prioritization:
Below is a build with all thf feats, both cleaves, qualifies for overwhelming crit. It's also managed to fit in 23ranks in umd, search & disable.

All you need to do is get a +2 dex tome from favor rewards or the AH, by level 8.

http://i.imgur.com/Fkd2Zw7.png

http://i.imgur.com/GW6T7VF.png



First off I would like to apologize for my earlier rant, just trying to fixing all my toons was running me broke its not the blade forged that the problem it was my attitude so again so to all the folks I offended with my moment of stupidity I alway like to max my toons with tomes many times they're not needed but i like have max tomes when I am not feeling like I have to have them

anyway I was wrong sorry

But in the same who turn my thread into a zoo there is a whole page of stuff that had nothing to do with my post this was my thread last i checked and this stuff has nothing to do with my build

I am surprised u found it in this mess

I just happen to be looking thru my old post and seen u posted here this looks good good to see u again

I have a 2nd life TR warforged with past life sorc +5 commander green steel falchion with acid burst, holy aspect of mineral . I think need to be finished last tier the last tier was not done for some reason but it look like I have everything to finish it depending on how I finish it. I don't remember since it was 3 years ago

He also has supreme tyrant green steel cloak concord of opposition, that has all kinds of charisma bases stats and greater element based spell power exceptional +2 str +6 wis +6 exceptional chr skills

This account does already have I have blade forged. He was a bard but needs to rebuilt he has a +2 tome set on him already and with the new update that is supposed to make this blade forges and pallys in general really good so I would really like to make one now I seen that info on the update.

This is also one of my better toons and would like to get him back in action but I have lots and can make one from a few others

would he be a good candidate for lesser TR'ing into a blade forged with the build u laid out here it looks like it would be U have to be a war forged to LTR into a blade forged right?

I forgot that this has monk levels my falchion would not work. Too bad but I would still like to find a build that fits him it a bummer that u really dont have a lot of weapon choice once u have monk levels it like long swords short swords wraps of staff well shrukins too. If you're helping me I don't mind spending some cash on the build at least then I know its not wasted money

I have a a 3 +3 tomes from the collectable cards too I can make

elamik
01-19-2016, 03:58 AM
Hi mate!

My name is Marc (From Barcelona - Spain) and i have a request for you.

I'm using your build since 3 or 4 years. Now, with the u29 we have a lot of new things and 2 more levels.

Can you post for me a revamped version of your build? (i'm not great on ddo maths)

I have +6 tomes on STR and CON. +5 on DEX and CHA. All others are +4.
I have all the relevant quarterstaffs (Sireth, Thunderforged, Walking stick, Dreampiercer, bla bla bla). I'm proudly end game geared etc.

Can you make me that.
Ty in advance and take care.

Hephaistor
01-20-2016, 02:12 AM
Hi mate!

My name is Marc (From Barcelona - Spain) and i have a request for you.

I'm using your build since 3 or 4 years. Now, with the u29 we have a lot of new things and 2 more levels.

Can you post for me a revamped version of your build? (i'm not great on ddo maths)

I have +6 tomes on STR and CON. +5 on DEX and CHA. All others are +4.
I have all the relevant quarterstaffs (Sireth, Thunderforged, Walking stick, Dreampiercer, bla bla bla). I'm proudly end game geared etc.

Can you make me that.
Ty in advance and take care.

For level 29 and 30 I would pick: Dire Charge (until they nerf it) or Embodiment of Law, Epic Damage Reduction and Scion of Arborea or Scion of Limbo (fix medium bonus vs. higher but random bonus)

The new harper tree doesn't matter as Know the Angles and Divine Might shouldn't stack. But the paladin pass made Defender better, you want to put some points into sacred defence now.