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Silverleafeon
07-26-2014, 04:20 PM
Greetings DDO Players,

I am a member of the Player's Council 2014, acting completely independently from the Developers in this thread which a continuation of the a thread found inside the Player's Council forums.

Up front I want to make several things clear, I have no idea when a new "third" Sorcerer tree will be made if ever. New Sorcerer trees are not on the current NDA list.

This tree is result my brainstorming for new ideas for a possible new class for 2015 onward. The Warmage tree was a suggestion for possible new classes, yet as I looked it over, I found it would fit much better into a Sorcerer tree which is needed than its own class.

A new class needs have its own distinctive traits, and Warmage is simply a more powerful arcane that is limited in focus. Hence I chose to convert it to an enhancement tree rather than directly compete with the Wizard and the Sorcerer. The design of this tree is expected to compliment the existing Savant trees and provide cherry picking as well as be a stand alone tree.

I have received PC feedback and improvements on this already.

Hopefully we can continue sorting thru and create one or more new sample trees, sticking close if possible to 3rd edition roots.

As a member of the Player's Council, I am allowed to present my own personal projects and vision for the future of DDO.

When we are done here, there will be a permanent placement of our theories and ideas into the Player's Council Forums, and I will encourage and press the Developer to work towards adding a "third" Sorcerer tree. Even if these don't not take place until after I leave the Player's Council at the end of the year, those ideas will still remain behind to inspire the Developers.

Thank you for your help and feedback, it is appreciated and a link to this thread will be included in that final report to the developers.

Silverleafeon
07-26-2014, 04:21 PM
Round 15 Draconic Warmage tree for Sorcerers
{ap cost 6+15+14+12+13+13 = 73 total for tree}

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore. So the Warmage turned to the Dragons as their foundation of knowledge and admiration.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Draconic Training ~ Spell Power
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.50 Universal Spell Power.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.
Choosing this core will lock out the Savant Tree Core enhancements, and you cannot take this core if you already have points spent in a Savant tree.


Core 3
Draconic Training ~ Armor Readiness
Your Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by your Sorcerer levels.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 6
Draconic Training ~ Eschew Materials
All your spells have the Eschew Materials metamagic feat applied to them for free.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 12
Draconic Training ~ Enlarge
All your spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them for free.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 18
Draconic Training ~ Quicken
All your spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them for free.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 20
+2 Charisma
Blade Barrier
You gain Blade Barrier as a level eight SLA with a cost of 35 spell points and a cooldown of 25 seconds.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


Elemental Spray III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray II


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Detonator
Upon casting a spell there is a 1/3/5% chance to cause a blast around you dealing Sorcerer Level random damage type.
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap


Arcane Scales:
You gain stacking +2/4/6 natural armor.
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting.
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap


Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Battlefield Barrage III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage II


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
Cost 2 ap Requirement Battle Field Focus II


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap



Tier Five


Evocation Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon I


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon II


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap





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Round 14 Warmage tree for Sorcerers
{ap cost 6+15+14+10+13+13 = 71 total for tree}

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore...


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.50 Universal Spell Power.
All your spell DCs are reduced by 1.


Core 3
Your Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by 10%


Core 6
Sudden Eschew Materials
All your spells have the Eschew Materials metamagic feat applied to them for free.


Core 12
Sudden Enlarge
All your spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them for free.


Core 18
Sudden Quicken
All your spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them for free.


Core 20
+2 Charisma
Blade Barrier
You gain Blade Barrier as a level eight SLA with a cost of 35 spell points and a cooldown of 25 seconds.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


Elemental Spray III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray II


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Detonator
Upon taking damage there is a 5% chance to cause a blast around you dealing Sorcerer Level fire damage.
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Commander:
Your summoned creatures, charmed minions, and hirelings have +2 to all ability scores and increased fortification (+25%).
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting and +10 universal spell power.
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap


Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Battlefield Barrage III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage II


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
Cost 2 ap Requirement Battle Field Focus II


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap



Tier Five


Evocation Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +2 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon I


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon II


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap





.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........




Round 13 Warmage tree for Sorcerers
{ap cost 6+15+14+12+13+13 = 73 total for tree}

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore...


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
For each core Warmage you take, you receive a -1 DC penalty to all your non evocation spells that you cast.
For each core Warmage that you take, your total arcane spell failure is reduced by four percent.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in any of the Savant enhancement trees.
If you already have points spent in the Savant enhancement trees, you cannot take this Core.


Core 3
Static Shock
You gain Static Shock as a level two SLA with a cost of 4 spell points and a cooldown of 6 seconds.


Core 6
Salt Ray
You gain Salt Ray as a level four SLA with a cost of 15 spell points and a cooldown of 8 seconds.


Core 12
Divine Punishment
You gain Divine Punishment as a level six SLA with a cost of 25 spell points and a cooldown of 10 seconds.
Sudden Eschew Materials
All your SLA spells have the Eschew Materials metamagic feat applied to them for free.


Core 18
Sunbeam
You gain Sunbeam as a level seven SLA with a cost of 15 spell points and a cooldown of 12 seconds.
Sudden Enlarge
All your spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them for free.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Blade Barrier
You gain Blade Barrier as a level eight SLA with a cost of 35 spell points and a cooldown of 25 seconds.
Sudden Quicken
All your spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them for free.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


Elemental Spray III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray II


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Shields of Battle I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Resist Energy
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap


Shields of Battle II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Resist Energy
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Shields of Battle I


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap


Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Battlefield Barrage III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage II


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
Cost 2 ap Requirement Battle Field Focus II


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap



Tier Five


Evocation Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon I


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon II


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap








.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................





Round 12 Warmage tree for Sorcerers
{ap cost 6+15+14+12+13+13 = 73 total for tree}

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore...


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in any of the Savant enhancement trees.
If you already have points spent in the Savant enhancement trees, you cannot take this Core.
For each core Warmage you take, you receive a -1 DC penalty to all your non evocation spells that you cast.
For each core Warmage that you take, your total arcane spell failure is reduced by four percent.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Disintegrate as a sixth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Sunbeam spell as a seventh level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Blade Barrier spell as an Eight level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


Elemental Spray III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray II


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Shields of Battle I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Resist Energy
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap


Shields of Battle II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Resist Energy
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Shields of Battle I


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap


Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Battlefield Barrage III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage II


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
Cost 2 ap Requirement Battle Field Focus II


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap



Tier Five


Evocation Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon I


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon II


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap





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Round 11 Warmage tree for Sorcerers
{ap cost 6+15+14+12+13+13 = 73 total for tree}

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore...


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in any of the Savant enhancement trees.
If you already have points spent in the Savant enhancement trees, you cannot take this Core.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Disintegrate as a sixth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Sunbeam spell as a seventh level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Blade Barrier spell as an Eight level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


Elemental Spray III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Elemental Spray II


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Flaming Sphere, Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Flaming Sphere, Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle II


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Shields of Battle I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Resist Energy
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap


Shields of Battle II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Resist Energy
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap Requirement Shields of Battle I


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap


Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Battlefield Barrage III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 1/1/1 Requirements Battlefield Barrage II


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
Cost 2 ap Requirement Battle Field Focus II


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap



Tier Five


Multi-select Evocation/Conjuration Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
You have trained extensively in Conjuration magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon I


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 1/1/1 ap Requires Elemental Cannon II


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap





'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''




Round 10 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore...


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in any of the Savant enhancement trees.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Disintegrate as a sixth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Sunbeam spell as a seventh level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Blade Barrier spell as an Eight level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


[Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Mirthal Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Mithral Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
You gain Lesser Globe of Invulnerability as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap


Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Battlefield Barrage III:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 Requirements Battlefield Barrage II


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Adamantine Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Adamantine Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha
Cost 2 ap



Tier Five


Multi-select Evocation/Conjuration Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
You have trained extensively in Conjuration magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requires Elemental Cannon I


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Score to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap

Silverleafeon
07-26-2014, 04:22 PM
Round 9 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide artillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Disintegrate as a sixth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Sunbeam spell as a seventh level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Blade Barrier spell as an Eight level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Spray I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Elemental Spray II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap Requirement Elemental Spray I


[Forceful Lights and Sounds of Battle I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Magic Missile, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Mirthal Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Mithral Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
You gain Lesser Globe of Invulnerability as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Battlefield Barrage I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2


Battlefield Barrage II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Searing Light, Chain Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 Requirements Battlefield Barrage I


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Adamantine Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Adamantine Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Multi-select Evocation/Conjuration Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
You have trained extensively in Conjuration magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon I
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Force Missiles
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requires Elemental Cannon I


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds their Charisma Score to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap





llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll




Round 8 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide artillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Fire Shield as a fourth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Disintegrate spell as a sixth level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Polar Ray spell as a one eighth level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Cannon I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Magic Missile
You gain Magic Missile as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Sonic Blast
You gain Sonic Blast as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Nimbus of Light
You gain Nimbus of Light as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Mirthal Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Mithral Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Searing Light
You gain Searing Light as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
You gain Lesser Globe of Invulnerabilityas an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Elemental Cannon II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2
Requirements Elemental Cannon I


Chain Missiles
You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Adamantine Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Adamantine Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Multi-select Evocation/Conjuration Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
You have trained extensively in Conjuration magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requires Elemental Cannon II


Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds his Charimsa Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap





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Warmage Round 7


A literal interpretation and conversion of the Warmage class to DDO:


The Warmage Class

A militant spellcaster whose training focuses on battlefield magic.


Hit die d6

Skill points 2 + Int

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Warmages are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and light shields. There is no ASF associated with these.


At 8th level, a warmage gains proficiency with medium armor (see Armored Mage, below). There is no ASF associated with these.

Spell Casting ~ Charisma based ; Spells learned are the same as a Sorcerer.

Warmage Edge (Ex): A warmage is specialized in dealing damage with his spells. Whenever a warmage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt. For instance, if a 1st-level warmage with 17 Intelligence casts magic missile, he deals
1d4+1 points of damage normally, plus an extra 3 points of damage due to his Intelligence bonus. The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class.

A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. For instance, a fireball deals the extra damage to all creatures in the area it affects. However, if a 3rd-level warmage casts magic missile and produces two missiles, only one of them (of the warmage's choice) gains the extra damage, even if both missiles are directed at the same target. If a spell deals damage for more than 1 round, it deals this extra damage in each round.

Magic Items used by a warmage do not gain any benefit from warmage edge.

Sudden Empower: At 7th level, a warmage gains Sudden Empower as an Action Boost. The Sudden Metamagic Action Boosts reduced the sp cost of that particular metamagic to zero.

Sudden Enlarge: At 10th level, a warmage gains Sudden Enlarge as an Action Boost. The Sudden Metamagic Action Boosts reduced the sp cost of that particular metamagic to zero.

Sudden Maximize: At 20th level, a warmage gains Sudden Maximize as an Action Boost. The Sudden Metamagic Action Boosts reduced the sp cost of that particular metamagic to zero.



Warmage Class Spell list:


Level 1
Acid Spray
Burning Hands
Chill Touch
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Niac' Cold Ray
Sonic Blast


Level 2
Electric Loop
Flaming Sphere
Scorch
Searing Ray
Snowball Storm
Melf's Acid Arrow



Level 3

Fire Shield
Fireball
Flame Arrow
Gust of Wind
Ice Storm
Lightning Bolt
Poison
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Acid Blast
Chain Missles


Level 4

Contagion
Phantasmal Killer
Shout
Wall of Fire
Acid Rain
Force Missiles


Level 5
Cloud Kill
Ball Lightning
Cone of Cold
Flamestrike
Prismatic Ray
Cyclonic Blast
Eladar's Electric Surge
Niac's Biting Cold


Level 6

Acid Fog
Blade Barrier
Chain Lightning
Circle of Death
Disintegrate
Fire Seeds
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
Tenser's Transformation



Level 7

Delayed Blast Fireball
Earthquake
Finger of Death
Prismatic Spray
Sun Beam
Waves of Exhaustion


Level 8

Horrid Wilting
Incendiary Cloud
Polar Ray
Greater Shout
Sunburst
Black Dragon Bolt



Level 9

Implosion
Meteor Swarm
Wail of the Banshee


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Warmage round 6

It looks like Warmage as either a Sorcerer or a Wizard tree would prove too competitive with the Savant and Archmage trees respectively. They would either be less powerful than them and hence be wasted coding or they would be more powerful and would outdate existing coding thereby either way promoting wasteful coding time by the Devs.


To convert Warmage into own class will be the discussion of round 7, however the Warlock class may be preferable as a new class over the Warmage, although the Warmage could eaiser to convert.

The same rule could very well apply to classes as well as trees, that classes that are too similar and competitive with others will result in wasted coding time as they might underperform compared to or obsolete existing classes.


However, there may be useful ideas to steal scattered about this thread for other projects.


.................................................. ........................



Round 5 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide artillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Fire Shield as a fourth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Blade Barrier spell as a one sixth level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Heal spell as a one sixth level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Cannon I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Magic Missile
You gain Magic Missile as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Sonic Blast
You gain Sonic Blast as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Nimbus of Light
You gain Nimbus of Light as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Mirthal Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Mithral Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Searing Light
You gain Searing Light as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
You gain Lesser Globe of Invulnerabilityas an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Elemental Cannon II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2
Requirements Elemental Cannon I


Chain Missiles
You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Adamantine Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Adamantine Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Multi-select Evocation/Conjuration Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
You have trained extensively in Conjuration magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requires Elemental Cannon II


Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds his Charimsa Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap



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Round 4 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide artillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Each point spent in this tree provides 1 universal spell power.
You add to your known spell list one first level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one second level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one four level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 12
Sudden Metamagic I
You gain bonus feat: Eschew Materials Metamagic feat and it does not cost sp while activated.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one three and one level five evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 18
Sudden Metamagic II
You gain bonus feat: Enlarge Metamagic feat and it only costs 3 sp while activated.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one level six and one level eight evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 20
+2 Charisma
Sudden Metamagic III
You gain bonus feat: Empower Metamagic feat and it only costs 5 sp while activated.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one level seven and one level nine evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.



Tier One


Evocation Spell Critical I:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
Cost 1 ap


Sudden Battle Magic I
You gain Magic Missile as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Evocation Spell Critical: II:
Your evocation spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
{requires Evocation Spell Critical: I}
Cost 1 ap


Sudden Battle Magic II
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Nimbus of Light, Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, Magic Missle, Sonic Blast
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requirements: Sudden Battle Magic I


Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Mirthal Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Mithral Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Evocation Spell Critical: III:
Your evocation spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
{requires Evocation Spell Critical: II}
Cost 1 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Battefield Rewards
Whenever you cast a spell, you have a 10%/20%/30% chance to gain 5 Temporary Spell Points.
Cost 1/1/1 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Evocation Spell Critical: IV:
Your evocation spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
{requires Evocation Spell Critical: III}
Cost 1 ap


Sudden Battle Magic IV
You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requirement Sudden Battle Magic III


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Adamantine Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Adamantine Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Evocation Focus
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Sudden Battle Magic III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Searing Light, Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Force Missiles, Lightning Bolt, Shout
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requires Sudden Battle Magic II


Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.


Battlefield Mastery
You gain bonus feat: Quicken Metamagic feat and it only costs 3 sp while activated.
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds his Charimsa Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap










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Round 3 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide altillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities

Core 1
Each point spent in this tree provides 1 universal spell power.
You add to your known spell list one first level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.

Core 3
+1 Caster Level to all your evocation spells.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one second level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 6
Bonus Feat
You gain bonus feat: Eschew Materials Metamagic feat and it does not cost sp while activated.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one four level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one three and one level five evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.

Rewards of Combat: When you critically hit with a spell, you gain 3 Warmage type temporary spell points.


Core 18
Bonus Feat
You gain bonus feat: Enlarge Metamagic feat.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one level six and one level eight evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.

Rewards of Combat: When you critically hit with a spell, you now gain 6 Warmage type temporary spell points.


Core 20

+2 Charisma
Your Warmage Edge is doubled.

Rewards of Combat: When you critically hit with a spell, you now gain 10 Warmage type temporary spell points.

Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one level seven and one level nine evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.



Tier One


Universal Spell Critical I:
Your spells have an additional universal 1% chance to critically hit.
Cost 1 ap


Sudden Empower
Your sp cost for using the Empower metamagic feat is cut in half after all other modifiers are applied.
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Universal Spell Critical: II:
Your spells have an additional universal 1% chance to critically hit.
{requires Universal Spell Critical: I}
Cost 1 ap



Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
Cost 2 ap


Sudden Quicken
Your sp cost for using the Quicken metamagic feat is cut in half after all other modifiers are applied.
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Universal Spell Critical: III:
Your spells have an additional universal 1% chance to critically hit.
{requires Universal Spell Critical: II}
Cost 1 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Sudden Maximize
Your sp cost for using the Maximize metamagic feat is cut in half after all other modifiers are applied.
Cost 2 ap



Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Universal Spell Critical: IV:
Your spells have an additional universal 1% chance to critically hit.
{requires Universal Spell Critical: III}
Cost 1 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Sudden Heighten
Your sp cost for using the Heighten metamagic feat is cut in half after all other modifiers are applied.
Cost 2 ap


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.

Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Battlefield Focus III:
You gain +1 to all your spell DCs.
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds his Charimsa Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap


Universal Spell Critical: V:
Your spells have an additional universal 1%/2%/3% chance to critically hit.
{requires Universal Spell Critical: IV}
Cost 1/1/1 ap







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Older trees listed below:





Round 2 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide altillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities

Core 1
Each point spent in this tree provides 1 universal spell power.

Core 3

Bonus Feat
You gain your choice of one Sudden Metamagic feat.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one second level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 6
Bonus Feat
You gain your choice of one Sudden Metamagic feat.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one third level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 12
Bonus Feat
You gain your choice of one Sudden Metamagic feat.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one fifth level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 18
Bonus Feat
You gain your choice of one Sudden Metamagic feat.
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list one fourth and one sixth level evocation Sorcerer spell of your choice.


Core 20
+2 Charisma

Cannon Barrage You gain +2 to the Intimidate and Spellcraft skills, and are able to cast the spell Meteor Swarm at will without using spell points.
Cooldown is ???

Magical Surge
Every time you cast an evocation spell there is a 5% chance of triggering a explosive burst around you dealing Character Level d4 damage.



Tier One


Spell Critical: Evocation I:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
Concentration +3 while spellcasting
Cost 2


Thick in the Battle I
Whenever you cast an Evocation spell, you gain +2 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Spell Critical: Evocation II:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation I}
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
Concentration +3 while spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Thick in the Battle II
Whenever you cast an Evocation spell, you gain an addition +3 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. (For a total of +5). This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Requires Thick in the Battle I, same tier
Cost 1/1/1


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1


Magic Missile
Spell Like Ability: Magic Missile (Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2


Tier Three


Spell Critical: Evocation III:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation II}
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus III:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 3 ap


Thick in the Battle III
Whenever you cast an Evocation spell, you gain an addition +4 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. (For a total of +9). This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Requires Thick in the Battle II, same tier
Cost 1/1/1


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Spell Critical: Evocation IV:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation III}
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus IV:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus III}
Cost 3 ap


Thick in the Battle IV
Whenever you cast an Evocation spell, you gain an addition +5 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. (For a total of +14). This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Requires Thick in the Battle III, same tier
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Evocation Focus:
Your Evocation spells have +1 DC
Cost 2 ap


Spell Critical: Evocation V:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation IV}
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus IV}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
Whenever a warmage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt. A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. Magical items activated by a warmage also gain no benefit from warmage edge. This bonus is not increase by spell power or any other bonus of any kind, it is simply added to the spell after all bonuses are applied.
Cost 2 ap


Ready for Action
Allows the caster to cast a spell without its material component.
The spell does not cost any addition spell points when this toggle is applied.
{It is like having Eschew Materials Metamagic but with zero sp cost.}
Cost 2 ap





.................................................. .................................................. ..................................................



OLD TREE from ROUND ONE

Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide altillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities

Core 0
Each point spent in this tree provides 1 universal spell power.

Core 3
Armored mage (light)
A warmage gains proficiency in light armor and light shields. A warmage's combat focus and specialized training, allows him to avoid arcane spell failure as long as he sticks to light armor and light shields. A warmage gains proficiency in light armor and light shields.

Core 6
Armored mage (medium)
At 8th level, a warmage learns to use medium armor with no chance of arcane spell failure.

Core 12
Sudden Empower
Every time a warmage casts a spell there is a percentage chance that any cost from using Empower Metamagic will be free.
The percentage chance is equal to the Warmage's Arcane Caster Level for that spell.

The warmage adds new spells to their known spell list:
Pick one of these to be added as a fourth level known spell:
Chaos Hammer, Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, Unholy Blight

Core 18
Sudden Maximize
Every time a warmage casts a spell there is a percentage chance that any cost from using Maximize Metamagic will be free.
The percentage chance is equal to the Warmage's Arcane Caster Level for that spell.

The warmage adds new spells to their known spell list:
Pick one of these to be added as a sixth level known spell:
Blade Barrier, Comet Fall, Sunbeam, Disintegrate

Core 20
+2 Charisma and +2 Intelligence

The warmage adds new spells to their known spell list:
Pick one of these to be added as an eight level known spell:
Firestorm, Earthquake, Sunburst

Pick one of these to be added as a ninth level known spell:
Implosion, Storm of Vengeance, Meteor Swarm



Tier One

Spell Critical: Conjuration I:
Your Conjuration spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
Cost 2 ap

Spell Critical: Evocation I:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
Cost 2 ap

Battlefield Focus I:
Concentration +3 while spellcasting
Cost 2

Thick in the Battle I
Whenever you cast an Conjuration or Evocation spell, you gain +2 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Cost 1/1/1

Hit Points:
+10/20/30 hit points
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two

Spell Critical: Conjuration II:
Your Conjuration spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Conjuration I}
Cost 2 ap

Spell Critical: Evocation II:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation I}
Cost 2 ap

Battlefield Focus II:
Concentration +3 while spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap

Thick in the Battle II
Whenever you cast an Conjuration or Evocation spell, you gain an addition +3 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. (For a total of +5). This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Requires Thick in the Battle I, same tier
Cost 1/1/1

Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance


Tier Three

Spell Critical: Conjuration III:
Your Conjuration spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Conjuration II}
Cost 2 ap

Spell Critical: Evocation III:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation II}
Cost 2 ap

Battlefield Focus III:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 3 ap

Thick in the Battle III
Whenever you cast an Conjuration or Evocation spell, you gain an addition +4 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. (For a total of +9). This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Requires Thick in the Battle II, same tier
Cost 1/1/1

Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha


Tier Four

Spell Critical: Conjuration IV:
Your Conjuration spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Conjuration III}
Cost 2 ap

Spell Critical: Evocation IV:
Your Evocation spells have an additional 2% chance to critically hit.
{requires Spell Critical: Evocation III}
Cost 2 ap

Battlefield Focus IV:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus III}
Cost 3 ap

Thick in the Battle IV
Whenever you cast an Conjuration or Evocation spell, you gain an addition +5 to your Universal Spell Power for 8 seconds. (For a total of +14). This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.
Requires Thick in the Battle III, same tier
Cost 1/1/1

Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five

Conjuration Focus:
Your Conjuration spells have +1 DC, +1 caster level, and +1 max caster level
Cost 2 ap

Evocation Focus:
Your Evocation spells have +1 DC +1 caster level, and +1 max caster level
Cost 2 ap

Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus IV}
Cost 2 ap

Warmage Edge
Whenever a warmage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt. The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class. A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. Scrolls activated by a warmage also gain no benefit from warmage edge. The same is true for most other magic items, such as wands and potions. However, staffs activated by a warmage use not only the warmage's caster level but also gain the benefits of the warmage edge, if applicable.

This bonus is not increase by spell power or any other bonus of any kind, it is simply added to the spell after all bonuses are applied.
The second tier makes it double Intelligence modifier.
Cost 2/2 ap


Ready for Action
Allows the caster to cast a spell without its material component.
The spell does not cost any addition spell points when this toggle is applied.

Add your character level to the percentage chance or Sudden Empower and
Sudden Maximize from the Warmage tree.
Cost 3 ap

Silverleafeon
07-26-2014, 04:22 PM
found here

Core Abilities


Warmage
Passive:


Armored Mage (Light) - Warmage training allows the caster to avoid arcane spell failure as long as he sticks to light Armor and Shields
+10 Universal Spell Power
+25% Fortification
Every point spent in this tree grants +0.75 Universal Spell Power

(AP Cost 1, Ranks: 1, Progression: 0, Requires: Sorcerer Level 1)

Warmage Affinity I
Warmage Affinity: Choose one:


Warmage Affinity: Acid
Warmage Affinity: Flame
Warmage Affinity: Frost
Warmage Affinity: Shock

Toggle: Warmages can assess their situation and increase the spell power of one specific element at a time, allowing an additional +10 Spell Power to their selected element. This increases to +15 at level 6, +20 at level 12, +25 at level 18, and +30 at Level 20


Passive:
+10 Universal Spell Power
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 5; Requires: Warmage, Sorcerer Level 3)

Warmage Affinity II: Choose a second Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
+50% Fortification

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; Requires: Warmage Affinity I, Sorcerer Level 6)


Warmage Affinity III: Choose a third Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
Armored Mage (Medium)

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Warmage Affinity II, Sorcrer Level 12)

Warmage Affinity IV: Choose a forth Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
+75% Fortification

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; Requires: Warmage Affinity III, Sorcrer Level 18)

Warmage Mastery


+2 Charisma
+2 Constitution
+25 Universal Spell Power
+1 Caster Level to non-Elemental Spells
+1 Maximum Caster Level to non-Elemental Spells


Tier One
Requires Warmage, Sorcerer Level 1


Spell Like Ability I: Magic Missile (Acivation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 Seconds)
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Toughness: +10/+20/+30 Maximum Hit Points
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Elemental Resistance: You gain +3/+6/+10 bonus to your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic Resistance
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Spell Critical I: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Battlemage: +2/+4/+6 to Concentration and Spellcraft
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)




Tier Two
Requires Sorcerer Level 2, 5 APs Spent in tree


Sudden MetaMagic I: Choose one of the following Feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic to 0 for 20/40/60 Seconds. 1/3/5 Uses per rest.


Empower
Enlarge
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 5; No Requirements)

Pierce Spell Resistance, Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells now bypass 5/10/15 points of your target's resistance to those damage types, if any.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 5; Requires: Elemental Resistance)

Spell Critical II: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 5; Requires: Spell Critical I)


Light Shield Proficiency: You gain proficiency with Light Shields
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 1; No Requirements)




Tier 3
Requires Sorcerer Level 3, 10 APs spent on tree


Sudden MetaMagic II: Choose another Metamagic Feat. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic to 0 for 20/40/60 Seconds. 1/3/5 Uses per rest.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 10; Requires Sudden Metamagic I)


Spell Penetration: You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; No Requirements)


Spell Critical III: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; Requires: Spell Critical II)


Charisma or Constitution:
Choose One:


+1 Charisma
+1 Constitution

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; No Requirements)


Tier 4
Requires Sorcerer Level 4, 20 APs spent on tree


Spell Like Ability II: Scorching Ray (Acivation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 Seconds)
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 20; Requirements: Spell Like Ability I)


Sudden Eschew Materials: Allows the use the Eschew Materials Feat 0 additional Spell Points
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Sudden Metamagic II)


Combat Casting: You gain the Combat Casting Feat
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; No Requirements)


Spell Critical IV: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Spell Critical III)


Charisma or Constitution:
Choose One:


+1 Charisma
+1 Constitution

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; No Requirements)


Tier 5
Requires Sorcerer Level 5, Character Level 12, 30 APs spent in tree


Spell Like Ability III: Blade Barrier (Acivation Cost: 12/8/6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 18/12/6 Seconds)



(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 30; Requirements: Spell Like Ability II)


Mobile Spellcasting: You gain the Mobile Spellcasting Feat
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; Requires: Combat Casting)


Evocation Focus: You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; No Requirements)


Warmage Edge: Whenever a Warmage casts a spell that deals damage, he adds his CHARISMA modifier to the amount of damage dealt. This damage DOUBLES if the character takes the Warmage Mastery Enhancement.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; No Requirements)



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



Warmage seems a pretty cool idea, but in terms of spell power, it is lacking way behind the Savants, plus it can't be an insta-killer because of the penalty's to DC's.

Also I think I have more of a Wildmage over a Warmage, but oh well.

Core One: Whenever you cast an offensive spell one random affect may trigger. This may only be produced once per second.
Blood Seeker: You gain 10 Universal spell power for the next ten seconds.
Infused Spell: Target takes 1d6 damage per Sorcerer.
Cripleding Magic: Target's movement speed is halved and it takes a -2 to Reflex Saaves.
Powerd Spell: Target is stunned for 5 seconds (save halves).
Warded Spell: You gain +10 to elemental resistance for 10 seconds.
Willpwered: You gain +2 to all saves for 10 seconds.


Core Two: +20 Universal spell power.


Core Three: Improves the random effects produced by spells which is granted at Core One
Blood Seeker: You gain 10 Universal spell power for 20 seconds.
Infuseed Spell: Target takes 1d8 damge per Sorcerer level rather than 1d6.
Cripling Magic: Targed takes -3 to reflex saves.
Powerd Spell: No save.
Warded Spell: As well as +10 MRR
Willpowered: +3 to all saves.


Core Four: +20 universal spellpower.


Core Five: + 2 Cha and now every offensive spell you cast may produce two random affects, rather than one.


Tier One:


Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp

+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.

+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft. Tier 3, you gain +30 sp

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp


Tier Two:

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast

You gain the feat: Combat Casting

+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.


Tier Three:
MultiSelection, choose one of:
When you cast an Abjuration Spell you gain +1 PRR and MRR per Sorcerer level for 2 minutes.
When you cast an Evocation spell you gain +20 bonus to spell power.
When you cast a Necromancy Spell you gain temporary Hit points equal to your Sorcer level times 2.
However you take a -1 to the DCs of a school that is not displayed here.

-1/2/4 to the aditional spell point cost of all metamagics.

You gain Mobile Spell casting as a feat

+1 Cha

+1 caster level for Abjuration, Evocation and Necromany spells


Tier Four:

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm

Multiselection: Chose one option that you did not pick at Tier Two.
When you cast an Abjuration Spell you gain +1 PRR and MRR per Sorcerer level for 2 minutes.
When you cast an Evocation spell you gain +20 bonus to spell power.
When you cast a Necromancy Spell you gain temporary Hit points equal to your Sorcerer level times 2.


Tier Five:

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt

A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.

Multi-Selection: Choose one option that you did not pick at tier four:
When you cast an Abjuration Spell you gain +1 PRR and MRR per Sorcerer level for 2 minutes.
When you cast an Evocation spell you gain +20 bonus to spell power.
When you cast a Necromancy Spell you gain temporary Hit points equal to your Sorcerer level times 2.


Just realized that I was late in this post, oh well..

slarden
07-26-2014, 10:47 PM
Very nice work! The thing that jumps out at me is that you would be giving a sorc arguably the best divine spell (blade barrier) and the best druid spell (earthquake).

Obviously what a sorc is going to do is take 5 tiers of this tree and 4 tiers for their main element and this basically amps up their crits for their main element while giving them great crits for force as well. Blade Barrier and Earthquake would almost always be selected because they are just so good. Would the evocation crits apply to epic destiny SLAs?

I love the concept, but this seems like a huge power boost for sorcs which already perform well in EE content.

azrael4h
07-26-2014, 11:28 PM
The T1 HP enhancement is twice as strong as EK. Granted, that's about the only thing in EK other than W&S mastery worth taking. Assuming that it is ever fixed. I would probably drop it for something else. Maybe a working W&S Mastery, and just dump EK in the trash entirely (IMO, the melee mage archetype needs it's own basic class, not a PrE in Wiz/Sorc).

Maybe add a Spell Power action boost clicky.

A tree that didn't suck utterly and gives USP is what Sorc needs. I would probably ditch Savant entirely, or just hit Air for Wind Dance. Personally, I'd also push for a DC-based option as well. Maybe just a retool of Archmage.

Giving Sorcerers access to some of the best non-arcane spells is probably too powerful. I'd at least restrict it to level 6 and below, and probably just give them additional arcane slots, not Druid or Divine spells as options. There's not as many 7-9 spells anyway, but 6 and 4 are very tight levels. Simply giving them the ability to add additional L4, 5 and 6 Arcane spells would be powerful enough.

The Evo/Conj crit boosts could probably just be 1 enhancement, as a multi-select option. TBH, I think most of us would just take Evo boosts since there's more Evo spells in common use. You could give additional SP as a multi-select option, either 3 USP or more for specific types, to replace the other enhancement.

I don't see any T5's I would take over Wind Dance, Heat Death, Earthgrab, or Prison, SLA, or Awaken Weakness. Edge makes little sense, and the minor boost isn't worth the lost mobility. There are not enough stave clickies in the game to bother boosting them, and what few there are are generally Heroic level. Evo focus is available in Savants and again, 99.9% of what is going to be taken. Basically, the only thing I see is Ready For Action's boost to the earlier core abilities.

Minrothad
07-27-2014, 12:17 AM
Yes, yes, a million times, yes! Please , PC members, make this happen. A sorcerer with blade barrier, implosion, freaking earthquake, yeah, that won't make it past Alpha before people realize it's way too OP, but I like the idea behind it, please keep working on this one.

Silverleafeon
07-27-2014, 04:37 AM
Very nice work! The thing that jumps out at me is that you would be giving a sorc arguably the best divine spell (blade barrier) and the best druid spell (earthquake).

Yes, that and a few other things is what shifted the whole thing away from being a new class to being a new tree.

The first write up, I tried to keep as close as possible to the pen and paper version,
which did include those spells.



Obviously what a sorc is going to do is take 5 tiers of this tree and 4 tiers for their main element and this basically amps up their crits for their main element while giving them great crits for force as well. Blade Barrier and Earthquake would almost always be selected because they are just so good.

Yepper, and that makes the other choices not really choices.




Would the evocation crits apply to epic destiny SLAs?

I believe so.


I love the concept, but this seems like a huge power boost for sorcs which already perform well in EE content.
I agree.

The T1 HP enhancement is twice as strong as EK.

That will probably need to be rebalance, I was trying to represent the d6 base that this class receive over the traditional d4 base.



Granted, that's about the only thing in EK other than W&S mastery worth taking. Assuming that it is ever fixed. I would probably drop it for something else. Maybe a working W&S Mastery, and just dump EK in the trash entirely (IMO, the melee mage archetype needs it's own basic class, not a PrE in Wiz/Sorc).

I'll try to look for a spot to place wand and scroll mastery, thank you for the hint.


Maybe add a Spell Power action boost clicky.

Another good suggestion, thank you.


A tree that didn't suck utterly and gives USP is what Sorc needs.
nods


I would probably ditch Savant entirely, or just hit Air for Wind Dance. Personally, I'd also push for a DC-based option as well. Maybe just a retool of Archmage.
I think a DC option would be nice, and will take a bit of balance not to go overboard, so it was not in the first draft.


Giving Sorcerers access to some of the best non-arcane spells is probably too powerful.
I agree.

Imagine the rage when Sorcerer get earthquake and Cleric cannot.



I'd at least restrict it to level 6 and below, and probably just give them additional arcane slots, not Druid or Divine spells as options. There's not as many 7-9 spells anyway, but 6 and 4 are very tight levels. Simply giving them the ability to add additional L4, 5 and 6 Arcane spells would be powerful enough.

I find this excellent advice, and will be taking it.


The Evo/Conj crit boosts could probably just be 1 enhancement, as a multi-select option. TBH, I think most of us would just take Evo boosts since there's more Evo spells in common use. You could give additional SP as a multi-select option, either 3 USP or more for specific types, to replace the other enhancement.

More excellent advice that will move this tree forward, thank you.



I don't see any T5's I would take over Wind Dance, Heat Death, Earthgrab, or Prison, SLA, or Awaken Weakness. Edge makes little sense, and the minor boost isn't worth the lost mobility. There are not enough stave clickies in the game to bother boosting them, and what few there are are generally Heroic level. Evo focus is available in Savants and again, 99.9% of what is going to be taken. Basically, the only thing I see is Ready For Action's boost to the earlier core abilities.
Well, I will just have to create some more actractive Tier 5 abilities, ty.


Yes, yes, a million times, yes! Please , PC members, make this happen. A sorcerer with blade barrier, implosion, freaking earthquake, yeah, that won't make it past Alpha before people realize it's way too OP, but I like the idea behind it, please keep working on this one.

LOL, indeed, and ty for the encouragement!!!

dunklezhan
07-27-2014, 05:20 AM
Looks like a great start.

'Negative' comments follow (you can take it as read that if I haven't said I don't like something then I either like it or thought "/meh". I'll try to come back and go into more detail on /meh at least)

I would drop the armour/shield ASF bonuses as these can be got from EK. I see no point duplicating one tree's abilities within the same class. Also the difference between the purpose of an EK (leaving aside the subject of whether or not it fulfils it's purpose...) and the purpose of warmage is quite subtle, so anything that makes them more distinct from each other would be a good thing. For me, all weapon, shield and armour benefits should be in EK. Elemental affinities in the savant tree, and Warmage should - and the way you've written it, does - be the 'generalist nuker'*.


I don't like the 'sudden' metamagics, too random. A Warmage would not want random in my view, they would be tactical planners and would value reliability over everything. I don't doubt that when taken over the course of an adventure these Sudden effects would be extremely beneficial - I would prefer just static discounts to spell cost. Again though these can be got from elsewhere in the sorc trees so I would question the value of including metamagic discounts at all.




*which I really DO like. This does seem to be a tree for sorcs which supports 'generalist nuking' as opposed to forcing a specialisation, which I never liked (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE earth/air/fire/water savant, what I'm saying is I disliked that it was specialise or go home until EK came in, and then when EK came in it was 'specialise, go melee or go home' - I like the idea of a sorc being effective with a wide spread of spells again). In fact, the tree as written could be 'generalist uninterruptable nuking' which is a nice touch, I'm glad you included those concentration/mobile casting etc options - they're not flashy, but they are quite desirable.

Silverleafeon
07-27-2014, 06:17 AM
Looks like a great start.

Thank you.



I would drop the armour/shield ASF bonuses as these can be got from EK.

An excellent point.
The first write up tried to keep close to the pen and paper version,
but as you say, it is totally duplicating something that is already there.

So I guess I will take it out.



I don't like the 'sudden' metamagics, too random. A Warmage would not want random in my view, they would be tactical planners and would value reliability over everything. I don't doubt that when taken over the course of an adventure these Sudden effects would be extremely beneficial - I would prefer just static discounts to spell cost. Again though these can be got from elsewhere in the sorc trees so I would question the value of including metamagic discounts at all.

A tricky point to convert their class sudden metamagics which are totally free applied once per a day.
Perhaps a free metamagic button with a very long cool down would work?



*which I really DO like. This does seem to be a tree for sorcs which supports 'generalist nuking' as opposed to forcing a specialisation, which I never liked (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE earth/air/fire/water savant, what I'm saying is I disliked that it was specialise or go home until EK came in, and then when EK came in it was 'specialise, go melee or go home' - I like the idea of a sorc being effective with a wide spread of spells again). In fact, the tree as written could be 'generalist uninterruptable nuking' which is a nice touch, I'm glad you included those concentration/mobile casting etc options - they're not flashy, but they are quite desirable.

Aye, this seeming to fit so well into the Sorcerer tree, that I placed it there instead of the possible wizard tree.
I am liking it more and more, and I am glad you do too.

Everyone's Feedback here is very, very appreciated.
Thank you, I hope we can make this a special tree.

dunklezhan
07-27-2014, 06:24 AM
A tricky point to convert their class sudden metamagics which are totally free applied once per a day.
Perhaps a free metamagic button with a very long cool down would work?


Perhaps it would appear as an 'additional' metamagic, with pre-reqs of empower then maximise, which would have the effect of applying one/both of these effects at zero spell cost, but doubling/tripling/quadrupelling/whatever the cooldown (and possibly taking the global 1 second cooldown on your other spells up to 2 seconds). You could then either just toggle them on, or do the right click thing on a spell by spell basis. This would allow you to drag an additional (for example) magic missile out, apply the new metamagics to just that and get a beast of a MM at no extra cost... but that has like a minute cooldown on it. Every now and again you get almost a free 'BOOM', but you can manage it alongside your other metamagic options. Or you can start a boss fight with it toggled on, let off every blast you have, then toggle off and go to normal spellcasting. if the fight lasts another minute, toggle and boom again. They're not free spells still, they're just not costing extra. You're effectively granting a bunch of extra spell points for a specific purpose - and with the spell point figures people who aren't me seem to be able to reach these days, that's not that powerful a thing to be giving out.

Or, simpler, just have a clickie with a 1 min cooldown, when you click it, the next spell you cast gets max/emp at no extra cost but doubles that spell's cooldown. Extra ranks (or core ablities) might reduce the cooldown (lets say 5 ranks, it could go from cooldown +100% down to +80%, +60%, +40%, +20%) but might instead apply to the next 2, 3, 4, 5 spells you cast. Have to be thought about more carefully by better minds than mine to make sure the 'cost' is not a hindrance on effectiveness.

thesnoman
07-27-2014, 03:06 PM
OK - So I dug out my "Complete Arcane" and looked up the Warmage - It's been a while...


Thoughts:
This is a very specialized class in PnP, but I can see this as a Sorcerer tree in DDO. It definitely should not be a Wizard tree simply because of the Wizard's ability to swap out any arcane spell after rest or at a tavern. Warmages need to have a limited number of spells available, similar to a Sorcerer, even though in PnP they had even fewer (Max 7 Spells at Level 20 for a Human - 8 for an Elf/Drow)


I'm not sure about how the OP's tree works in terms of being overpowered, but it looks like it could be far too powerful in DDO simply because Sorcs do have access to every Arcane Spell, while classic PnP Warmages can only access a very small number of spells.



Another thing to consider, as has already been mentioned - is EK. EK already has much of the armor bonuses that warmage would have, but I still think they belong in the Warmage tree - perhaps slightly differently though.


On the tree as I would see it - Much of the OP works, but I'll try to put my take on it since I think the OP will be far too powerful. (This may also be OP, but I think it adheres much more closely to the PnP version of the Warmage and translates well for DDO PLUS has a capstone worth taking):


Core Abilities


Warmage
Passive:


Armored Mage (Light) - Warmage training allows the caster to avoid arcane spell failure as long as he sticks to light Armor and Shields
+10 Universal Spell Power
+25% Fortification
Every point spent in this tree grants +0.75 Universal Spell Power

(AP Cost 1, Ranks: 1, Progression: 0, Requires: Sorcerer Level 1)

Warmage Affinity I
Warmage Affinity: Choose one:


Warmage Affinity: Acid
Warmage Affinity: Flame
Warmage Affinity: Frost
Warmage Affinity: Shock

Toggle: Warmages can assess their situation and increase the spell power of one specific element at a time, allowing an additional +10 Spell Power to their selected element. This increases to +15 at level 6, +20 at level 12, +25 at level 18, and +30 at Level 20


Passive:
+10 Universal Spell Power
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 5; Requires: Warmage, Sorcerer Level 3)

Warmage Affinity II: Choose a second Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
+50% Fortification

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; Requires: Warmage Affinity I, Sorcerer Level 6)


Warmage Affinity III: Choose a third Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
Armored Mage (Medium)

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Warmage Affinity II, Sorcrer Level 12)

Warmage Affinity IV: Choose a forth Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
+75% Fortification

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; Requires: Warmage Affinity III, Sorcrer Level 18)

Warmage Mastery


+2 Charisma
+2 Constitution
+25 Universal Spell Power
+1 Caster Level to non-Elemental Spells
+1 Maximum Caster Level to non-Elemental Spells


Tier One
Requires Warmage, Sorcerer Level 1


Spell Like Ability I: Magic Missile (Acivation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 Seconds)
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Toughness: +10/+20/+30 Maximum Hit Points
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Elemental Resistance: You gain +3/+6/+10 bonus to your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic Resistance
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Spell Critical I: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Battlemage: +2/+4/+6 to Concentration and Spellcraft
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)




Tier Two
Requires Sorcerer Level 2, 5 APs Spent in tree


Sudden MetaMagic I: Choose one of the following Feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic to 0 for 20/40/60 Seconds. 1/3/5 Uses per rest.


Empower
Enlarge
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 5; No Requirements)

Pierce Spell Resistance, Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells now bypass 5/10/15 points of your target's resistance to those damage types, if any.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 5; Requires: Elemental Resistance)

Spell Critical II: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 5; Requires: Spell Critical I)


Light Shield Proficiency: You gain proficiency with Light Shields
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 1; No Requirements)




Tier 3
Requires Sorcerer Level 3, 10 APs spent on tree


Sudden MetaMagic II: Choose another Metamagic Feat. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic to 0 for 20/40/60 Seconds. 1/3/5 Uses per rest.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 10; Requires Sudden Metamagic I)


Spell Penetration: You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; No Requirements)


Spell Critical III: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; Requires: Spell Critical II)


Charisma or Constitution:
Choose One:


+1 Charisma
+1 Constitution

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; No Requirements)


Tier 4
Requires Sorcerer Level 4, 20 APs spent on tree


Spell Like Ability II: Scorching Ray (Acivation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 Seconds)
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 20; Requirements: Spell Like Ability I)


Sudden Eschew Materials: Allows the use the Eschew Materials Feat 0 additional Spell Points
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Sudden Metamagic II)


Combat Casting: You gain the Combat Casting Feat
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; No Requirements)


Spell Critical IV: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Spell Critical III)


Charisma or Constitution:
Choose One:


+1 Charisma
+1 Constitution

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; No Requirements)


Tier 5
Requires Sorcerer Level 5, Character Level 12, 30 APs spent in tree


Spell Like Ability III: Blade Barrier (Acivation Cost: 12/8/6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 18/12/6 Seconds)



(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 30; Requirements: Spell Like Ability II)


Mobile Spellcasting: You gain the Mobile Spellcasting Feat
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; Requires: Combat Casting)


Evocation Focus: You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; No Requirements)


Warmage Edge: Whenever a Warmage casts a spell that deals damage, he adds his CHARISMA modifier to the amount of damage dealt. This damage DOUBLES if the character takes the Warmage Mastery Enhancement.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; No Requirements)

Silverleafeon
07-27-2014, 03:58 PM
Perhaps it would appear as an 'additional' metamagic, with pre-reqs of empower then maximise, which would have the effect of applying one/both of these effects at zero spell cost, but doubling/tripling/quadrupelling/whatever the cooldown (and possibly taking the global 1 second cooldown on your other spells up to 2 seconds). You could then either just toggle them on, or do the right click thing on a spell by spell basis. This would allow you to drag an additional (for example) magic missile out, apply the new metamagics to just that and get a beast of a MM at no extra cost... but that has like a minute cooldown on it. Every now and again you get almost a free 'BOOM', but you can manage it alongside your other metamagic options. Or you can start a boss fight with it toggled on, let off every blast you have, then toggle off and go to normal spellcasting. if the fight lasts another minute, toggle and boom again. They're not free spells still, they're just not costing extra. You're effectively granting a bunch of extra spell points for a specific purpose - and with the spell point figures people who aren't me seem to be able to reach these days, that's not that powerful a thing to be giving out.

Or, simpler, just have a clickie with a 1 min cooldown, when you click it, the next spell you cast gets max/emp at no extra cost but doubles that spell's cooldown. Extra ranks (or core ablities) might reduce the cooldown (lets say 5 ranks, it could go from cooldown +100% down to +80%, +60%, +40%, +20%) but might instead apply to the next 2, 3, 4, 5 spells you cast. Have to be thought about more carefully by better minds than mine to make sure the 'cost' is not a hindrance on effectiveness.


Excellent advice, I will add this suggestion to the Warmage Tree:

We need new tech, please add the following feats to the DDO game:

Sudden Metamagic Feats ~ each Metamagic Feat now has a sudden version as well and can be purchased as a feat with the same restrictions that the regular metamatic feats have. You cannot apply the sudden version and the normal version with the same name to the same spell on the hot bar, you must choose one or the other. You cannot toggle sudden metamagic to be always on. Sudden metamagic feats have no sp cost, but they do have an extra cooldown associated with them.

When the sudden metamagic is applied to a hot keyed spell, that spell can be cast once before the sudden cooldown is applied of X seconds. Having multiple Sudden metamagics applied to the same spell will not increase the cooldown costs.

{Current suggestion is 1 minute for sudden metamagic cooldowns.}

{New tech is always subject to chance due to technical limitations.}

I will put this in post 3 so it is easy to find and look at.

I will probably add a few mult-selectors at tier 5 allowing one to pick up a few of these for free.
A DC boost choice would also be nice for tier 5 along with a max caster level boost.
Keep the "uninterrupted spellcasting" feature and ponder the future of Warmage edge.

Silverleafeon
07-27-2014, 04:14 PM
OK - So I dug out my "Complete Arcane" and looked up the Warmage - It's been a while...


Nods happily.



Thoughts:
This is a very specialized class in PnP, but I can see this as a Sorcerer tree in DDO. It definitely should not be a Wizard tree simply because of the Wizard's ability to swap out any arcane spell after rest or at a tavern. Warmages need to have a limited number of spells available, similar to a Sorcerer, even though in PnP they had even fewer (Max 7 Spells at Level 20 for a Human - 8 for an Elf/Drow)

Aye


I'm not sure about how the OP's tree works in terms of being overpowered, but it looks like it could be far too powerful in DDO simply because Sorcs do have access to every Arcane Spell, while classic PnP Warmages can only access a very small number of spells.


Yes, they limited out the enchantment type spells, but then allowed the best divine spell in the game back in.
I am trying to represent an evocation/conjuration focus by granting those spells bonuses making the enchantment spells less attractive.

If you carefully read the warmage spell list and compare it to the DDO versions you will find most all those spells are either conjuration or evocation.


Another thing to consider, as has already been mentioned - is EK. EK already has much of the armor bonuses that warmage would have, but I still think they belong in the Warmage tree - perhaps slightly differently though.


Yes, I feel duplication of trees is wasted space.


On the tree as I would see it - Much of the OP works, but I'll try to put my take on it since I think the OP will be far too powerful. (This may also be OP, but I think it adheres much more closely to the PnP version of the Warmage and translates well for DDO PLUS has a capstone worth taking):


Thank you very much, I will read thru this sample tree very carefully and I appreciate the time you put into it.
I will probably end up creating two trees for the Devs to choose between.


I don't think I will change Warmage Edge from being Intelligence based to Charisma based, as I would like to follow the PnP version as much as possible, but it is a thought to consider.

dunklezhan
07-27-2014, 04:43 PM
I don't think I will change Warmage Edge from being Intelligence based to Charisma based, as I would like to follow the PnP version as much as possible, but it is a thought to consider.

Make it a selector for build diversity?

Silverleafeon
07-27-2014, 05:00 PM
Make it a selector for build diversity?

I am fond of multi-selectors...

thesnoman
07-27-2014, 05:20 PM
I don't think I will change Warmage Edge from being Intelligence based to Charisma based, as I would like to follow the PnP version as much as possible, but it is a thought to consider.

If this is supposed to be the all-around Nuker, might as well do it right and base everything on Charisma (After all, we already have to deal with Spellcraft being Intelligence based)



I am trying to represent an evocation/conjuration focus by granting those spells bonuses making the enchantment spells less attractive.


It should only be Evocation: From the Warmage section of "The Complete Arcane" in regards to Advanced Learning: "The spell must be a wizard spell of the evocation school"

While I agree that looking at the Warmage Spell List there are plenty of DDO Conjuration spells in there, keeping it all Evocation really makes you look strictly at Damage Spells.

I've edited my original post regarding SLA's - I was looking at the wrong spell list when I came up with those.
Also, please note that I tried to make it a really hard decision to multi-class with this enhancement tree. IMHO, Current Sorcerer capstones actually make you want to multi-class rather than stay pure - this tree gives a big benefit to staying pure Sorcerer

Silverleafeon
07-27-2014, 07:47 PM
Core Abilities


Warmage
Passive:


Armored Mage (Light) - Warmage training allows the caster to avoid arcane spell failure as long as he sticks to light Armor and Shields
+10 Universal Spell Power
+25% Fortification
Every point spent in this tree grants +0.75 Universal Spell Power

(AP Cost 1, Ranks: 1, Progression: 0, Requires: Sorcerer Level 1)

Warmage Affinity I
Warmage Affinity: Choose one:


Warmage Affinity: Acid
Warmage Affinity: Flame
Warmage Affinity: Frost
Warmage Affinity: Shock

Toggle: Warmages can assess their situation and increase the spell power of one specific element at a time, allowing an additional +10 Spell Power to their selected element. This increases to +15 at level 6, +20 at level 12, +25 at level 18, and +30 at Level 20


Passive:
+10 Universal Spell Power
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 5; Requires: Warmage, Sorcerer Level 3)

Warmage Affinity II: Choose a second Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
+50% Fortification

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; Requires: Warmage Affinity I, Sorcerer Level 6)


Warmage Affinity III: Choose a third Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
Armored Mage (Medium)

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Warmage Affinity II, Sorcrer Level 12)

Warmage Affinity IV: Choose a forth Warmage Affinity Toggle
Passive:


+10 Universal Spell Power
+75% Fortification

(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; Requires: Warmage Affinity III, Sorcrer Level 18)

Warmage Mastery


+2 Charisma
+2 Constitution
+25 Universal Spell Power
+1 Caster Level to non-Elemental Spells
+1 Maximum Caster Level to non-Elemental Spells




Your warmage toggles are very interesting.



Tier One
Requires Warmage, Sorcerer Level 1


Spell Like Ability I: Magic Missile (Acivation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 Seconds)
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Toughness: +10/+20/+30 Maximum Hit Points
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Elemental Resistance: You gain +3/+6/+10 bonus to your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic Resistance
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Spell Critical I: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 1; No Requirements)


Battlemage: +2/+4/+6 to Concentration and Spellcraft
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 1; No Requirements)



Interesting, I have not placed SLAs in the warmage tree yet.
I kind of want to be different from the Savant trees if possible.



Tier Two
Requires Sorcerer Level 2, 5 APs Spent in tree


Sudden MetaMagic I: Choose one of the following Feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic to 0 for 20/40/60 Seconds. 1/3/5 Uses per rest.


Empower
Enlarge
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 5; No Requirements)



A good approach to the sudden metamagic conversion problem.



Pierce Spell Resistance, Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells now bypass 5/10/15 points of your target's resistance to those damage types, if any.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 5; Requires: Elemental Resistance)

Spell Critical II: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 5; Requires: Spell Critical I)


Light Shield Proficiency: You gain proficiency with Light Shields
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 1; No Requirements)



Some light shields have ASF, don't they?
I guess we have spell agility augments now a days.



Tier 3
Requires Sorcerer Level 3, 10 APs spent on tree


Sudden MetaMagic II: Choose another Metamagic Feat. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic to 0 for 20/40/60 Seconds. 1/3/5 Uses per rest.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 3; Progression: 10; Requires Sudden Metamagic I)


Spell Penetration: You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; No Requirements)

No spell pen in my tree yet, but spell pen is mostly for instant kills and enchantments.



Spell Critical III: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; Requires: Spell Critical II)


Interesting concept, labeling by energy type instead of school type.



Charisma or Constitution:
Choose One:


+1 Charisma
+1 Constitution

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 10; No Requirements)



This I will have to adopt, its excellently done.



Tier 4
Requires Sorcerer Level 4, 20 APs spent on tree


Spell Like Ability II: Scorching Ray (Acivation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 Seconds)
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 20; Requirements: Spell Like Ability I)


Sudden Eschew Materials: Allows the use the Eschew Materials Feat 0 additional Spell Points
(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Sudden Metamagic II)



I like the thought of a warmage using Eschew metamagic for free.



Combat Casting: You gain the Combat Casting Feat
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; No Requirements)


Spell Critical IV: Elemental and Force: Your Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force, and Untyped Damage Spells have an additional 2% Chance to Critically Hit
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; Requires: Spell Critical III)


Charisma or Constitution:
Choose One:


+1 Charisma
+1 Constitution

(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 20; No Requirements)



Nicely done.



Tier 5
Requires Sorcerer Level 5, Character Level 12, 30 APs spent in tree


Spell Like Ability III: Blade Barrier (Acivation Cost: 12/8/6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 18/12/6 Seconds)



(AP Cost: 1; Ranks: 3; Progression: 30; Requirements: Spell Like Ability II)


Blade Barrier is a definite sweet tier five, not sure it will fly past Alpha, but it should be considered.



Mobile Spellcasting: You gain the Mobile Spellcasting Feat
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; Requires: Combat Casting)


Evocation Focus: You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; No Requirements)

I love these two.



Warmage Edge: Whenever a Warmage casts a spell that deals damage, he adds his CHARISMA modifier to the amount of damage dealt. This damage DOUBLES if the character takes the Warmage Mastery Enhancement.
(AP Cost: 2; Ranks: 1; Progression: 30; No Requirements)

And comes the big question, charisma or not charisma???
I definitely like how you tied this into the Capstone, we should have more of that type of thing in DDO.

A typical Sorcerer is going to have between 40 and 80 charisma depending upon their gimpness.
Assume a Cha of 60ish = 25 damage bonus.
The same Sorcerer might have an Int of 10+8+2+tomes
Assume a Cha of 24ish = 7 damage bonus.

There is quite a difference in the two, and frankly the latter might not be worthy of tier 5.


Thanks again, nice write up, will be using pieces and we might consider something like this for the alternate tree.

TromboneFireTurtle
07-28-2014, 12:49 AM
I am a avid 4e CharOp person (go ahead, mock, see if I care,) and as such I approve of the inclusion of a striker mechanic such as adding a secondary score to damage. The 4e Sorcerer adds either Strength or Dexterity to their damage in addition to their Charisma. For Strength Sorcerers, their Strength Modifier is added to their AC instead of Dexterity or Intelligence. I say this for a multitude of reasons:

1. DDO has transcended 3.5e, and as such we need to be open-minded.
2. This tree has a predilection toward melee, and if Intelligence is selected as the secondary stat, this build becomes MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent) very quickly. For if one wants to engage in melee combat, one must be a certain race i.e. PDK, invest in Dexterity and be of a specific race i.e. Elf, or invest in Strength. One must also invest in Constitution if one wants to stay alive, one also has to invest in Dexterity if one doesn't want to be shredded in the light armor that they are saddled with for the majority of their heroic careers, as well as multiclass Monk or Rogue for evasion, or they bite the bullet and multiclass Fighter for heavy armor. This requires nearly every stat maxed out except for Wisdom. If Intelligence could be applied to AC that would make this much simpler, also, making Charisma or Intelligence the melee combat stat for this tree would make things much simpler.
2a. If melee combat isn't part of this tree at all, ignore my last.
3. This build does seem to want to be in the thick of things, so how about making them resistant to offensive spells directed toward them, like adding their Charisma or Intelligence modifiers to saves against spells or something like that. A Warmage should be capable of defending him or herself from enemy artillery.

That concludes my piece (rant, 2 cents, whatever.) If it makes no sense, feel free to ignore it.

Xyfiel
07-28-2014, 01:55 AM
I have nothing against a third sorc tree but it shouldn't be high priority. We still need a artificer destiny, some trees and destinies reworked, and completion of other classes trees. Paladin, Druid, Artificer, Fighter, and Soul should all get a third tree before Sorcs get another. I know Sorc is an outlier since they can technically get 3 trees now and have 5 to choose from. I just don't see why this is even being discussed on PC at this time. Trees aren't being put out that quickly. I could agree if Sorcs were having issues but they are a top tier class.

Now I understand you have information about things that we don't. You should keep this to the PC forums since we can't give opinions about things we don't know. And you are not a go between between players and Devs, we have Llama for that. Stop acting like you are a dev in training and releasing hints to upcoming stuff or asking for feedback. We have official discussion threads exactly for feedback.

dunklezhan
07-28-2014, 02:08 AM
a bunch of stuff based on what you think devs should be working on.

Utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Without random ideas like this, we'd never have got the metamagic per-spell selectors which was done by a dev during some alloted downtime, based on an idea someone had. This was in the middle of some fairly major other efforts as I recall at the time, but they had a go, found it was easier than first thought and before you know it BOOM it was live and we were all ecstatic.

There is zero harm is thrashing this out in a thread, for the devs to put in a pile marked 'pending enhancement changes'.

Right.

On topic - evocation vs conjuration vs whatever.

Thesnoman is correct it should only be evocation. You can probably stop reading there, I mean there's not a lot you can do to argue with that!

My only thought in terms of a DDO adaptation is that the savant tree is already an evocation specialist - in fact it's three evocation specialists and a conjuration specialist. What's wrong with a tree that bridges both?

Silverleafeon
07-28-2014, 03:50 AM
Round two is up.

Highlights of changes:

Charisma for warmage edge.

Evocation bonuses only eliminating conjuration.

Removal of armor as it is duplicated in the EK tree.

Remove of acquiring divine spells, but expansion of acquiring arcane known spells.

Inclusion of some nice extras such as wand mastery, and an option on spellcraft skills.

Addition of SLAs at tier 2 and capstone.


Thanks for all the help!
The old tree is right below the new one, so compare and decide which pieces are better.

Should more SLAs be included, or less?
Does the capstone look decent?

thesnoman
07-28-2014, 07:03 AM
Your warmage toggles are very interesting.

Thank you - Most of the effort I put into this tree is in the Core Abilities. This is, (as is implied by 'Core abilities'), where I believe you should be getting what truly makes you a Warmage. The Toggles are to give the Warmage versatility - something it really wouldn't have in PnP, but will need in order to be viable in DDO.


Interesting, I have not placed SLAs in the warmage tree yet.
I kind of want to be different from the Savant trees if possible.

I agree - I struggled with putting SLAs into this tree, but decided that the only way to get Blade Barrier would be as an SLA - and it would need a substantial investment in this tree to get it - sometimes in things you really don't want...hence me putting SLAs into this tree.



A good approach to the sudden metamagic conversion problem.

Thank you. Again - there was a lot of thought put into this area as well - and I think, from a developer's standpoint, it would be easier to implement than trying to add more feats to an established class. Keep in mind that using these would still require an investment in the original Metamagic Feat in order for it to be useful.


Some light shields have ASF, don't they?
I guess we have spell agility augments now a days.

Yes and Yes.



No spell pen in my tree yet, but spell pen is mostly for instant kills and enchantments.
Again - I struggled with this one, but it made sense where it would go in the tree.


Interesting concept, labeling by energy type instead of school type.
It's been done before - this actually came straight from Archmage. Again - from a Development Standpoint, I figured it would be easier to implement than trying to implement improved critical chance based on School.


This I will have to adopt, its excellently done.

Like the above, I can't take credit for this - it's been done before in other trees and I thought that those two Stats would most benefit the Warmage and it would really make the player have to choose which benefits his particular character more.



I like the thought of a warmage using Eschew metamagic for free.
It's a feat that is never chosen because materials are so cheap. Therefore, for a large investment into this tree, I thought it made a good enhancement.


Nicely done.


Blade Barrier is a definite sweet tier five, not sure it will fly past Alpha, but it should be considered.

I made sure it required a large investment into the tree - it's not cheap to get. I'd even consider inserting another required SLA to get it. Speaking of which, I'd also consider changing up the first two SLA's to spells that aren't typically available to Sorcerers - more versatility.



I love these two.

Those were easy as a Warmage would have spent years training so that his spell casting time is less hindered by movement. They also make take substantial investment into the tree to acquire.



And comes the big question, charisma or not charisma???
I definitely like how you tied this into the Capstone, we should have more of that type of thing in DDO.

A typical Sorcerer is going to have between 40 and 80 charisma depending upon their gimpness.
Assume a Cha of 60ish = 25 damage bonus.
The same Sorcerer might have an Int of 10+8+2+tomes
Assume a Cha of 24ish = 7 damage bonus.

There is quite a difference in the two, and frankly the latter might not be worthy of tier 5.

My thoughts were also along this line. My current Sorcerer has a 50 Charisma (unbuffed) and a 30 Intelligence (unbuffed). As was suggested earlier in this thread, it could be made into a toggle, but I'm guessing that no Sorcerer would choose Intelligence over Charisma so there is no need to waste additional development time on it.



Thanks again, nice write up, will be using pieces and we might consider something like this for the alternate tree.

Thanks again - I put more time than I normally would into something like this, but I really think this one is worth the effort.

Irastirdadt
07-28-2014, 07:52 AM
Realy Love your ideas, but i think the enhacement to criticals in elemental and force should be 1% per tier, like the archmage tree. (or improve the archmage tree to this!)

Realy great job!

thesnoman
07-28-2014, 03:00 PM
Realy Love your ideas, but i think the enhacement to criticals in elemental and force should be 1% per tier, like the archmage tree. (or improve the archmage tree to this!)

Realy great job!

I made it 2% because there are not the huge bonuses to elemental spell power like in the standard Savant trees - which get 2% for their specific element.

Additionally, Wizards get to change their spells at will - Sorcs are pretty much stuck with the spells they choose during level up (unless you have a huge stock of dragon blood). I think it would need to be play tested to see if it is really overpowered, but it should start at 2% and be reduced, not start at 1% and hope that if it isn't powerful enough that the devs decide to bump it up.

Archmages DO NOT need it bumped to 2% - they already have Arcane Supremacy

T5 Archmage:
Your offensive spells gain a 10% chance to trigger Arcane Supremacy.
Arcane Supremacy: +25% Spell Critical Chance, +100% Spell Critical Damage. 12 seconds duration. This effect may trigger only once every 90 seconds..

Silverleafeon
07-28-2014, 03:21 PM
I placed thesnoman tree in post #4 since I would like to offer two trees for more variety to the Devs.
We can work on it too.


Three new official discussion threads by Sev are up now, the one that most concerns this thread is here
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446136-Armor-Up-Developer-Diary-1
Armor will now become useful finally.

Docents will be part of this new system, they are not listed at the moment, but it has been publicly stated somewhere.
Here it is again:


Yes.

Mithral Body will be treated as Light armor and provide 10 PRR.
Adamantine Body will be treated as Heavy Armor and provide 30 PRR.

Sev~

Honestly, one has to spend 23 points in the EK tree to gain light armor, medium armor, shields, and +30 force power.
I find that an excessive alternative to building up in the Warmage tree.

Mostly humans, races with amp/self heals, warforged, and bladeforged will use this tree.
So adding Docents to any armor options is important.

I would like to make these trees further apart from the Savant trees if possible.

autochthon
07-30-2014, 09:26 AM
So I've been dorking around with EK in general (and reading this thread) and my opinion is that before (or along with) an additional "battlemage" option EK needs a near total overhaul.

I mean look at the stuff propsoed in this enhancement tree compared to EK. Immediate light armour and immediate ASF removal in light armour puts EK's armour mastery to shame. Now this isn't an issue with the proposed Warmage, it's an issue with EK's design (being poor overall) and EK's lack of focus.

I suggest that Warmage be exclusive with EK, you get one or the other and not both with immediate light armour for the Warmage as in previous trees. I might also make other suggestions for both trees later but for the time being that's my immediate recommendation. Keep in mind that almost every option presented in most recommendations is strictly superior to similar options available to EK (Battlemage, Energy Resistance, etc). Perhaps EK has a slated upgrade planned but compared to live WM is pretty much saying "I do everything EK does better except wear armour and maybe smack things with my sword"

Edit: Thes's tree feels a bit better than your revised proposal in terms of representing the PnP

Edit2: Is there anything going on for proposals for EK?If not is there interest on making some propsals to get EK in a better spot?

Exiledtyrant
08-01-2014, 12:50 AM
I agree with what is being said about EK. Ek got slammed with lazy cores, a half finished scaling system, poor proficiency planning ( see shield prof) and wasted slots like the critical confirm and damage while classes are getting crit range and multi buffs now. What's worse it looks like the spell power scaling that was half finished was just a test for the new melee power that is coming now.

As for war mage I think the trees intent needs to be clearly defined before any solid feedback can be given on it. What is it trying to accomplish for casters right now? Wizards don't have a spell damage tree and Sorcerers don't have a DC tree. That's what I've always seen the big split to be. Both could use a generalists tree so that they can focus heavy in 1 element and have back up when something is immune. A tree that works better than trying to crutch on two savants because even having 2 strong elements doesn't work everywhere.


I think the things to stay away from are critical hit chance, bonus meta magic feats, armor, short term spell power and damage that won't scale well. More elemental penetration would be nice as I don't think casters are saturated with that stat yet. Critical hit for magic is already very easy to get high. Adding another critical hit line is probably pushing it. They feel more like filler than useful .Wizards are drowning up to their eye balls in extra meta magic and sorcerers are probably only looking for 3 metas to fit in anyway. Armor is supposed to be one of the things the EK is ahead in and spell failure was a joke before EK enhancements. Short term spell power pressures casters to spam spells on limited spell points. The charisma score to spell damage seems fairly weak as well for a T5. That's what 40 more damage at super high CHA? 40 damage is an ok addition to a melee attack because of the multipliers or speed of application, but not so much on a spell.

Things like concentration and mobile spell casting are also kind of a waste. Concentration is pretty much useless after level 15 and if you needs feats like mobile spell casting or ways to help with interrupt your better off with quicken. Trees are getting useful enhancements now we don't have to shoot for lame stuff like haggle 1/2/3 anymore.

I think the tree should be the best at universal spell power, have enhancements that reduce spell points, empower meta magics not award them, and give a large selection of SLAs. It needs to be more than what the savants became which is just a 4 way copy and paste with maybe 3 different enhancements between them.

Silverleafeon
08-01-2014, 02:05 AM
So I've been dorking around with EK in general (and reading this thread) and my opinion is that before (or along with) an additional "battlemage" option EK needs a near total overhaul.

I mean look at the stuff propsoed in this enhancement tree compared to EK. Immediate light armour and immediate ASF removal in light armour puts EK's armour mastery to shame. Now this isn't an issue with the proposed Warmage, it's an issue with EK's design (being poor overall) and EK's lack of focus.

I agree.



I suggest that Warmage be exclusive with EK, you get one or the other and not both with immediate light armour for the Warmage as in previous trees. I might also make other suggestions for both trees later but for the time being that's my immediate recommendation. Keep in mind that almost every option presented in most recommendations is strictly superior to similar options available to EK (Battlemage, Energy Resistance, etc). Perhaps EK has a slated upgrade planned but compared to live WM is pretty much saying "I do everything EK does better except wear armour and maybe smack things with my sword"

Yes, we will have to compare the two trees carefully.



Edit: Thes's tree feels a bit better than your revised proposal in terms of representing the PnP

Honestly, I like Thes tree better than my round 2.
Thes tree has personality and flavor where as my is rather bland numbers.



Edit2: Is there anything going on for proposals for EK?If not is there interest on making some propsals to get EK in a better spot?

I will certainly listen and we can make a list of possible quick fixes.
If the Devs ever go into an area they tend to wander around, then leave, so it could happen.
Be good to make a quick fix list for the EK tree.
Low coding time, but good impact.


I agree with what is being said about EK. Ek got slammed with lazy cores, a half finished scaling system, poor proficiency planning ( see shield prof) and wasted slots like the critical confirm and damage while classes are getting crit range and multi buffs now. What's worse it looks like the spell power scaling that was half finished was just a test for the new melee power that is coming now.

Nods and listens.



As for war mage I think the trees intent needs to be clearly defined before any solid feedback can be given on it. What is it trying to accomplish for casters right now? Wizards don't have a spell damage tree and Sorcerers don't have a DC tree. That's what I've always seen the big split to be. Both could use a generalists tree so that they can focus heavy in 1 element and have back up when something is immune. A tree that works better than trying to crutch on two savants because even having 2 strong elements doesn't work everywhere.


I agree, we need to find our focus and rally around a theme and purpose.



I think the things to stay away from are critical hit chance, bonus meta magic feats, armor, short term spell power and damage that won't scale well.

Listens closely.



More elemental penetration would be nice as I don't think casters are saturated with that stat yet. Critical hit for magic is already very easy to get high. Adding another critical hit line is probably pushing it. They feel more like filler than useful .Wizards are drowning up to their eye balls in extra meta magic and sorcerers are probably only looking for 3 metas to fit in anyway. Armor is supposed to be one of the things the EK is ahead in and spell failure was a joke before EK enhancements. Short term spell power pressures casters to spam spells on limited spell points. The charisma score to spell damage seems fairly weak as well for a T5. That's what 40 more damage at super high CHA? 40 damage is an ok addition to a melee attack because of the multipliers or speed of application, but not so much on a spell.

Listens.



Things like concentration and mobile spell casting are also kind of a waste. Concentration is pretty much useless after level 15 and if you needs feats like mobile spell casting or ways to help with interrupt your better off with quicken. Trees are getting useful enhancements now we don't have to shoot for lame stuff like haggle 1/2/3 anymore.

EE combat damage means concentration failure, this very true.
Interestingly enough many Sorcerers don't use quicken because the count on the speed of their spells to help.
The Mobile Spell casting would increase your speed slightly.



I think the tree should be the best at universal spell power, have enhancements that reduce spell points, empower meta magics not award them, and give a large selection of SLAs. It needs to be more than what the savants became which is just a 4 way copy and paste with maybe 3 different enhancements between them.

SLAs are always welcome in any caster tree.
They actually represent free metamagics on a limited basis which is what Warmage Sudden Metamagic is in a way.

autochthon
08-01-2014, 08:18 AM
EK proposal in EK thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444278-Eldritch-Knight?p=5394470&viewfull=1#post5394470) (not entirely quick fixes but the areas that are just changes to functionality should be)

Highlights of the proposal:

Improved Mage Armor (1, 3): Toggle, gain the effects of Mage Armor. Additionally increase armor by 7/14/20% when affected by mage armor
Reasoning: A slight buff to the the AC for EK. Mostly just to be a biut tankier to fit the total theme. Toggle effect fixes the need for duration maintenance.

Improved Shield (1, 3):Requires Improved Mage Armor Toggle, gain the effect of shield. While the shield spell is affecting you increase PRR (and MRR) by 3/7/10%
Reasoning: Same as above. Fits the theme. Change to % bonus linearizes the total defensive gain from the effect. Makes it more attractive as a level splash, but *shrug*

Elemental Resistance (1,3): +3/7/10% elemental damage resistance
Reasoning: Improves scaling.

Armor Mastery (2,2): Gain Proficiency in Medium/Heavy armor and 5/10% ASF. Requires Light armor Mastery
Reasoning: This lets a T4 EK choose to go all the way on armor if they do a pure class build. The 5% additional potential ASF isn't quite enough to wear heavy armors effectively without a supporting race. At leats not while using a shield with ASF

Tenser's Transcendance (1,1): Replaces Transformation. Passively gain the effect of Tenser's Transformation, Passively increse the effect of Alchemical Bonuses on you by +2
Reasoning: This is a straight up buff. As one of the few T5 abilities with a direct drawback it feels rather lacklustre. The bonus alchemical effect value makes it more tempting and the permanence makes it a choice between having and not (your other option is an Epic Destiny).

Doublestrike: Removed
Reasoning: Merged with eldritch tempest

Eldritch Tempest (2, 3): Activate: Perform a spinning melee attack, dealing weapon damage +(1/2/3)[W] to all nearby enemies and knocking them prone for 1 second. (Activation Cost: 50/30/10 Spell points. Cooldown: 60/40/20 seconds)
If any foes are struck by Eldritch Tempest, your weapon also releases an explosion of magical force, dealing an additional 1d6 Force damage per character level to all nearby enemies. This additional force damage is affected by your spell power. This ability shares a cooldown with Great Cleave
Passive: +1/2/3% Doublestrike
Reasoning: Straight buffs on an ability that is generally viewed as lacklustre. The cooldown share makes it a replacement for great cleave to prevent AoE getting out of hand compared to a straight fighter as well as making an EK that ca't take power attack for whatever reason not feel too left out. The merge with doublestrike means a low level splash will need to commit to get the "free" doublestrike. And it reduces overall cost in tree a bit.


With that out of the way (those were the lesser changes, my full proposal has a number of large changes to cores and the tree itself).

I think Warmage would be best stressing SUDDEN metamagic (as free metamagic) without free grants and as multiselectors. A strong focus on spells with asssociated DCs. And general mastery. One option would be to provide the ability to "prepare" a spell as an SLA. Instead of just sudden metamagic you could get extremeley flexible SLA slots. For instance

Warmage Spell Mastery T1 (available T2)
Whenever you rest you may prepare a spell of up to (1st/2nd/3rd) level as your warmage focus. Until your next rest you cast the spell as a spell like ability.

Warmage Spell Mastery T2 (available T4)
As above except levels 4/5/6

Warmage Spell Mastery T3 (Available T5)
As above except 7/8/9

Each level requires matching rank in the level below it.

High flexibility. Powerful. And represents a solid commitment (I recommend 2 points per rank in each). This would be in addition to any sudden metamagic.

Silverleafeon
08-01-2014, 08:41 AM
Thanks Auto, this stuff is great and muchly appreciated.

autochthon
08-01-2014, 08:46 AM
You're welcome. Tho I'd pitch the whole EK package I presented in the link if possible (it includes SLA's and a full much needed Core overhaul if you didn't look).

Have you considered Sudden Metamagic as an Action Boost? A capstone Action boost granting completely free metamagic for 20 seconds would actually be interesting (and expand the toolbox of thes's kit) for a 20 level commitment. The current capstone proposals are a little bland.

Exiledtyrant
08-01-2014, 09:52 AM
I was thinking about how sudden meta magics and advanced learning could be translated into DDO. I have thought of this so far.

Core 1
Each point spent in this tree provides 1 universal spell power.
Spells affected by the Empower meta magic now bypass elemental resistance equal to caster level of the spell.

Core 3
Pick an evocation or conjuration spell from your current spell list. This spell is now a 10 sp SLA that can be used every 6 seconds.

+ 10 universal spell power

Core 6
Spells affected by the Maximize meta magic now double the range and area of effect
+10 universal spell power

Core 12
Pick an evocation or conjuration spell from your current spell list. This spell is now a 10 sp SLA that can be used every 6 seconds.
+ 10 universal spell power

Core 18
Spells affected by the Heighten meta magic now increase the DC of that spell by 3

+10 universal spell power

Core 20
+2 Charisma

Pick an evocation or conjuration spell from your current spell list. This spell is now a 10 sp SLA that can be used every 6 seconds

Remove the caster level cap on all evocation and conjuration spells.


Tier One


Spell Efficency I:
Every 6th Real spell cast is free
Cost 2

Magical Device Expertise I:
+3 use magical device
Cost 2

******************

I think with 2 tiered enhancement lines you could take out 2 slots per 1-5 tier. This would lead to need 2 unique enhancements for tier 1 and 2, 1 unique enhancements for tier 3 and 4 as stats would take up a slot and 3-4 unique enhancements for tier 5. Wand/scroll mastery could have a home here instead of EK.


That leaves room for more SLAs, maybe spell casting feats outside of meta magics, maybe ways to modify existing SLAs. I cant think of any right now but UMD is definitely more attractive than concentration and less boring than spellcraft. Scaling from 1 free spell every 6 to 3 casts may also be nice. Not sure on the power level between giving so many SLAs and a free cast for using non SLA spells though. There are infinite SP builds floating around though.

autochthon
08-01-2014, 09:58 AM
I was thinking about how sudden meta magics and advanced learning could be translated into DDO. I have though of this so far.

Core 1
Each point spent in this tree provides 1 universal spell power.
Spells affected by the Empower meta magic now bypass elemental resistance equal to caster level of the spell.

Core 3
Pick an evocation or conjuration spell from your current spell list. This spell is now a 10 sp SLA that can be used every 6 seconds.

+ 10 universal spell power

Core 6
Spells affected by the Maximize meta magic now double the range and area of effect
+10 universal spell power

Core 12
Pick an evocation or conjuration spell from your current spell list. This spell is now a 10 sp SLA that can be used every 6 seconds.
+ 10 universal spell power

Core 18
Spells affected by the Heighten meta magic now increase the DC of that spell by 3

+10 universal spell power

Core 20
+2 Charisma

Pick an evocation or conjuration spell from your current spell list. This spell is now a 10 sp SLA that can be used every 6 seconds

Remove the caster level cap on all evocation and conjuration spells.


Tier One


Spell Efficency I:
Every 6th Real spell cast is free
Cost 2

Magical Device Expertise I:
+3 use magical device
Cost 2

******************

I think with 2 tiered enhancement lines you could take out 2 slots per 1-5 tier. This would lead to need 2 unique enhancements for tier 1 and 2, 1 unique enhancements for tier 3 and 4 as stats would take up a slot and 3-4 unique enhancements for tier 5. Wand/scroll mastery could have a home here instead of EK.


That leaves room for more SLAs, maybe spell casting feats outside of meta magics, maybe ways to modify existing SLAs. I cant think of any right now but UMD is definitely more attractive than concentration and less boring than spellcraft. Scaling from 1 free spell every 6 to 3 casts may also be nice. Not sure on the power level between giving so many SLAs and a free cast for using non SLA spells though. There re infinite SP builds floating around though.

How to break that: Respec AP at level 18+ as a full caster. Choose 1 or more ninth level spells. They're now SLAs AND cost 10 spell points. Which spells would I choose?

Power Word Kill
Meteor Swarm
Energy Drain
WotB

Any and all are expensive spells with middling to long cooldowns. While I'm sure that wouldn't be WAI, that's what the RAW is on those suggestions :P I mean I'm all for WotB as a permanent buff but it's pretty ridiculous.

Exiledtyrant
08-01-2014, 10:12 AM
How to break that: Respec AP at level 18+ as a full caster. Choose 1 or more ninth level spells. They're now SLAs AND cost 10 spell points. Which spells would I choose?

Power Word Kill
Meteor Swarm
Energy Drain
WotB

Any and all are expensive spells with middling to long cooldowns. While I'm sure that wouldn't be WAI, that's what the RAW is on those suggestions :P I mean I'm all for WotB as a permanent buff but it's pretty ridiculous.

Your listing in necromancy spells when it only specifies evocation and conjuration. Power word kill is a bit of a slip as I didn't think it was an exception compared to the other Power words which are enchantment and not conjuration. If meteor swarm is problematic the list could be taken down to spell level 1-8 and still be useful. Sorcerers don't know cooldowns to begin with so tacking on 6 seconds onto a spell that barely goes on CD for 1 second was supposed to be the trade off.

autochthon
08-01-2014, 10:16 AM
Your listing in necromancy spells when it only specifies evocation and conjuration. Power word kill is a bit of a slip as I didn't think it was an exception compared to the other Power words which are enchantment and not conjuration. If meteor swarm is problematic the list could be taken down to spell level 1-8 and still be useful. Sorcerers don't know cooldowns to begin with so tacking on 6 seconds onto a spell that barely goes on CD for 1 second was supposed to be the trade off.

Slightly misread it my bad. But the point was basically "pick high level spell it's now essentially free and can have all metamagic applied to it". May or may not become rather broken depending on how many metamagics you have access to.

Seikojin
08-01-2014, 11:39 AM
Looking at the trees proposed, they seem a bit strong like others have said, especially if you multi-class into a different evocation class.

Thesnoman - I really like this proposal for a tree. Very EK - like, but more on the spell offensive side. I think the SLA's should be multi-selectors for various elements for that caster level. So burning hands, acid spray, mm, etc. Representing the primary element you want to take. Yes this can clash or pair well with savants, and it should. Make mirrored SLA's anti-req each other out, so you can't have burning hands 3 times (sla, sla, spell).

Also the tier 5 mastery thing; I like the idea of adding cha/stat to something. Just make it add to the relevant spell power. Less buggy, adds power, but not op when casting low level/damage spells/sla's.

Maybe ad +1 dc's in the cores for evo, making their dps more reliable as enemies fail to save on reflex.

The metamagic stuff. I think the idea is cool, however I think it should cut the sp cost down dramatically, but not remove the cost completely. As your proposal, they will be diminishing their returns as you click the second, third, 4th enhancement, so people will take max and empower ones and not take others. I think if it was similar to the existing meta magic savers, but stacks, it would allow warmages to be that much more desirable. Meaning instead of dual savants, you will have focused savant warmages.

However, I really like the idea of a 3rd tree for casters. Aren't sorcs supposed to get wildmage or flesh shaper?

autochthon
08-01-2014, 01:21 PM
"Supposed to" is kinda vague. To be honest Savants could use a pass to help differentiate them and taht's something that should be done if Sorc gets touched. I think Warmage as a "third" tree on Sorc makes sense since it can be a flexible non-gimmick tree.

Interestingly it would be a direct counterpart to Archmage XD

Silverleafeon
08-03-2014, 06:08 AM
You're welcome. Tho I'd pitch the whole EK package I presented in the link if possible (it includes SLA's and a full much needed Core overhaul if you didn't look). Thanks, I went and read it. Good Stuff, we can pitch this in with the rest.


Have you considered Sudden Metamagic as an Action Boost? A capstone Action boost granting completely free metamagic for 20 seconds would actually be interesting (and expand the toolbox of thes's kit) for a 20 level commitment. The current capstone proposals are a little bland.Excellent idea.
It is difficult to deal with short term free boosts but one had enough of them it might work out well.
The theory is very interesting.


.....That leaves room for more SLAs, maybe spell casting feats outside of meta magics, maybe ways to modify existing SLAs. I cant think of any right now but UMD is definitely more attractive than concentration and less boring than spellcraft.... There are infinite SP builds floating around though.

Thanks for the write up.
Warmage is looking more and more like we ought to go down the Archmage path with a Warmage feel to it.
I wonder if a copy and paste then modify like crazy approach would work.
The other approach is huge metamagic discounts.

I do like the choice of changing SLAs.


How to break that: Any and all are expensive spells with middling to long cooldowns. While I'm sure that wouldn't be WAI, that's what the RAW is on those suggestions :P I mean I'm all for WotB as a permanent buff but it's pretty ridiculous.

I believe typically converting to an SLA is double cooldown with half the spell cost and metamagics for free,
then it is altered for power consideration. Less sp costs or better spell = longer cooldown.

I the Devs are going to want to list their SLAs and pick over them even if the list is huge.


Sorcerers don't know cooldowns to begin with so tacking on 6 seconds onto a spell that barely goes on CD for 1 second was supposed to be the trade off.

True cooldown for Sorcerer is rather low.


Slightly misread it my bad. But the point was basically "pick high level spell it's now essentially free and can have all metamagic applied to it". May or may not become rather broken depending on how many metamagics you have access to.

Wondering about a "pick a metamagic, its total sp cost is cut in half after all other modifiers are applied?"


Looking at the trees proposed, they seem a bit strong like others have said, especially if you multi-class into a different evocation class.

Nods, next round will look a lot different, I think.



Thesnoman - I really like this proposal for a tree. Very EK - like, but more on the spell offensive side. I think the SLA's should be multi-selectors for various elements for that caster level. So burning hands, acid spray, mm, etc. Representing the primary element you want to take. Yes this can clash or pair well with savants, and it should. Make mirrored SLA's anti-req each other out, so you can't have burning hands 3 times (sla, sla, spell).

Selection of SLAs is tricky, I almost want to copy and paste the Armage tree for SLA, lol...



Also the tier 5 mastery thing; I like the idea of adding cha/stat to something. Just make it add to the relevant spell power. Less buggy, adds power, but not op when casting low level/damage spells/sla's.

Hmm...I wonder. Maybe.
We could do a lot less power boosts elsewhere if we just allowed it to be normal.
What would happen if it was Cha modifier adds to you universal spell power instead or damage to spells?
That would be super easy to program and not over powered?



Maybe ad +1 dc's in the cores for evo, making their dps more reliable as enemies fail to save on reflex.


I did a study once and found that extra +1 DC was more important than +1 crit bonus.



The metamagic stuff. I think the idea is cool, however I think it should cut the sp cost down dramatically, but not remove the cost completely. As your proposal, they will be diminishing their returns as you click the second, third, 4th enhancement, so people will take max and empower ones and not take others. I think if it was similar to the existing meta magic savers, but stacks, it would allow warmages to be that much more desirable. Meaning instead of dual savants, you will have focused savant warmages.

To stack perhaps the "cut sp cost of metamagics in half after other modifiers are applied would work?"



However, I really like the idea of a 3rd tree for casters.

Nods happily me too.


Aren't sorcs supposed to get wildmage or flesh shaper?

I don't get to see the white boards the devs have, and if Sorcerer was in progress in the Player's Council area, I could not be talking to you right now about this. I do recall long ago, some thoughts thrown out in a public statement, but likely it was brainstorming and no more.


"Supposed to" is kinda vague. To be honest Savants could use a pass to help differentiate them and taht's something that should be done if Sorc gets touched. I think Warmage as a "third" tree on Sorc makes sense since it can be a flexible non-gimmick tree.

I think something straight up would be nice, since the Savant all tilt the boat this way and that with their elemental focus.


Interestingly it would be a direct counterpart to Archmage XD

And now I really need to read thru the Archmage tree, lol...


Thanks all, very good feedback, I will try to get the next round going even if its not perfect so we can move forward from here.

Silverleafeon
08-03-2014, 07:13 AM
Round 3 is up.

Basically, I copied the armor placement of the EK tree, then toned down a few things, but tried to make it interesting.
See what you think.

Round 2, then 1 are below it and the other tree is still in its own post.

autochthon
08-03-2014, 08:53 AM
The later bonus spells seem a little low level, of course that might just be me feeling that 6th level spells are a bit less effective than 8th or 9th. You won't be able to "naturally" wear medium with the way the ASF bonuses are spread (15% won't negate common scale). Whether that's intentional or not is something you know rather than me. I'd imagine the intention is to get the WM into wearing the armor without needing ASF bonuses, since that's how PnP works.

Some of your wording is awkward, but that's nothing that you really have to worry about for a pitch I would imagine. Core 1 definitely should have Antirequisite: Eldritch Strike, if only because this tree is basically EK for a caster rather than fighter.

Might I suggest Eschew being made free (somewhere)? Flavorful with minimal cost impacts.

Silverleafeon
08-03-2014, 09:07 AM
The later bonus spells seem a little low level, of course that might just be me feeling that 6th level spells are a bit less effective than 8th or 9th.
Thank you, fixed.
Doubled up some of the higher tiers to get one of each level in.


You won't be able to "naturally" wear medium with the way the ASF bonuses are spread (15% won't negate common scale). Whether that's intentional or not is something you know rather than me. I'd imagine the intention is to get the WM into wearing the armor without needing ASF bonuses, since that's how PnP works.

Copy and paste from EK tree, and I agree, so I changed it to immune from ASF on the appropriate item.
Fixed thank you.



Some of your wording is awkward, but that's nothing that you really have to worry about for a pitch I would imagine.
Thank you, I'll try to smooth it up as we go along.



Core 1 definitely should have Antirequisite: Eldritch Strike, if only because this tree is basically EK for a caster rather than fighter.


Hmm...I don't really intend for them to swing a weapon...



Might I suggest Eschew being made free (somewhere)? Flavorful with minimal cost impacts.

Great idea and done.

autochthon
08-03-2014, 09:21 AM
Hmm...I don't really intend for them to swing a weapon...

That's the point, given the placement of a number of the effects in this new tree WM will be strictly superior over EK in terms of wearing light/medium armor, however it will be less effective at melee. Now imagine you can choose both trees and get best of both worlds. Cores 1-4 mean bonus spells to go with your buffing spells, access to powerful emtamagic bonuses, and you'll be able to get the ASF you need more effectively. While benefitting fully from EKs superior melee. You won;t be giving anything up to do it either.

Further exacerbated if a tree similar to my proposal gets pushed through, where the raw power of evocation access is normally controlled by limiting to missiles or requiring you to get fewer CC/buff spells. Then you spec into the universal power tree and you're looking at more points in the EK offenses and easier access to armor and better spell throughput. With the vanilla EK tree it's not really a huge issue (other than strict superiority) but if the tee gets buffed...

Hence recommending an antirequisite to make sure WM is treated as what it is (Evoker Battle Archmage).

Glad you liked my other suggestions.

Silverleafeon
08-03-2014, 09:43 AM
antirequisite is opposite to prerequisite.

Light dawns...yes I agree will change now.

Added to core 1

Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.

autochthon
08-03-2014, 07:37 PM
antirequisite is opposite to prerequisite.

Light dawns...yes I agree will change now.

Added to core 1

Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.

:P

I was wondering what I was failing to get across lol

Edit: You have "Universal Spell Critical: Evocation" but the effect is not limioted to evocation (Necromancy would be the big offender here in terms of potential critting spells that aren't right flavor)

Edit2: "Skills of the Battlefield" should no longer grant ASF reduction (you have no ASF in requisite armors, and no intention of heavier armors fitting the vision)

Silverleafeon
08-03-2014, 09:56 PM
:P

I was wondering what I was failing to get across lol

I learned a new word, woot!


Edit: You have "Universal Spell Critical: Evocation" but the effect is not limioted to evocation (Necromancy would be the big offender here in terms of potential critting spells that aren't right flavor)
Thank you.
Removed the evocation off the title.

The idea, right or wrong, is that the Savant tree already provide evocation bonuses,
hence the Warmage tree could provide universal bonuses that are a lower amount.
If we limited spell type, then I would want to increase back to 2%.

There was some concern about doubling up the evocation spell critical,
although I run a Cleric 15/Favored Soul 5 that doubled up her light spells.
But light spells are not as powerful as many of the Sorcerer spells.

Yes, we step a bit away from blast spells only there.
Shall I make the tier 5 +1 evocation DC instead of unvisersal?

Perhaps Warmages should instant kill sometimes?



Edit2: "Skills of the Battlefield" should no longer grant ASF reduction (you have no ASF in requisite armors, and no intention of heavier armors fitting the vision)
Thank, you, replaced with tier 3 you gain 30 sp.

Silverleafeon
08-04-2014, 06:32 AM
Ok, Warmage round 4 is up.

Frankly the tree seemed to be missing the feeling of Warmage style.

So, I brought in lots of SLAs, redid the crit back into 1% evocation only, shuffled the bonus metamagics a bit.

The metamagic reduction costs were eliminated, and replaced with the core and tier 5 metamagics bonus feats offering reduced sp prices.

Warforged armor feat considerations were added.

There is also a % chance to gain temp sp gained on spell cast.

I realize the apply for 5 sp empower metamagic (+75 unvisersal spell power) will raise a few eyebrows, until one compares Fire Savant getting +60 fire spell power for free?

I tried to tone down the power, comparing to Savant but striving for more versatility than Savant.
The bonus metamagics will be welcome as Sorcerers are feat starved and I promoted the less chosen ones.

autochthon
08-04-2014, 10:26 AM
Your second tier SLAs have Magic Missile (magic missile is the only option in first tier). Your naming of T3 and T4 are mixed up. I don't think WF armor feats are really necessary (they have ASF in their tree, and well... WF)

I honestly think free feats should be a Sorc prestige thematic element :P

Trillea
08-04-2014, 11:57 AM
Ok, Warmage round 4 is up.

Frankly the tree seemed to be missing the feeling of Warmage style.

So, I brought in lots of SLAs, redid the crit back into 1% evocation only, shuffled the bonus metamagics a bit.

The metamagic reduction costs were eliminated, and replaced with the core and tier 5 metamagics bonus feats offering reduced sp prices.

Warforged armor feat considerations were added.

There is also a % chance to gain temp sp gained on spell cast.

I realize the apply for 5 sp empower metamagic (+75 unvisersal spell power) will raise a few eyebrows, until one compares Fire Savant getting +60 fire spell power for free?

I tried to tone down the power, comparing to Savant but striving for more versatility than Savant.
The bonus metamagics will be welcome as Sorcerers are feat starved and I promoted the less chosen ones.

I like a LOT of what you have done here, my main concern is that the % chance for temp SP when combined with the FvS line on fire/force may make it change from "almost infinite SP" to "infinite sp" especially since all your SLAs are force.

autochthon
08-04-2014, 12:08 PM
I think the level20 core doesn't feel compelling enough in terms of returns (A feat and two spells). There are certainly L20 cores on other classes that feel boring (looking at you assassin), but I think that's an issue with them too. Can we think of spomething really iconic that Warmage has in PnP other than the sudden metamagic (which really is jus ta way to say "you're a wizard that casts spontaneously" in the PnP rules)

Silverleafeon
08-04-2014, 09:48 PM
Your second tier SLAs have Magic Missile (magic missile is the only option in first tier). Your naming of T3 and T4 are mixed up. I don't think WF armor feats are really necessary (they have ASF in their tree, and well... WF)

I honestly think free feats should be a Sorc prestige thematic element :P
Opsay, yes, some copy and paste errors I am sure, cleanup will be done.
Thank you.

I did not want to leave the warforged out, but they do have a huge advantage as a sorcerer anyway.
I will look their racial tree over.
Thank you.

Ok, so you like the free metamagic ?
I think sorcerers really could use some bonus metamagics.
Perhaps we can expand that direction of free metamagic feats more.
The adjusted sp cost is probably too powerful, and might need to be brought into line with typical amounts.

I like a LOT of what you have done here, my main concern is that the % chance for temp SP when combined with the FvS line on fire/force may make it change from "almost infinite SP" to "infinite sp" especially since all your SLAs are force.
Yes, that is highly sought after.
The feature is a copy and paste upgrade from Fire Savant casting fire spells.
Probably too much power there.

I think the level20 core doesn't feel compelling enough in terms of returns (A feat and two spells). There are certainly L20 cores on other classes that feel boring (looking at you assassin), but I think that's an issue with them too. Can we think of spomething really iconic that Warmage has in PnP other than the sudden metamagic (which really is jus ta way to say "you're a wizard that casts spontaneously" in the PnP rules)

I agree, my capstone is frankly boring, I puzzled over it quite awhile without that light bulb moment of something good.
We can keep trying there.


Thanks for reading giving feedback everyone, it is greatly appreciated!!!!

autochthon
08-05-2014, 07:29 AM
Free (and near-free) metamagic and free feat access is something that Sorc really benefits from. I think it would be interesting to see stuff like

"Your spell like abilities gain the effect of Maximize"
"Your spell like abilities gain the effect of Extend"
"Your spell like abilities gain the effect of Quicken"
etc

Imagine if your Warmage spells were all SLA's, and your SLA's were getting beefed up hardcore. With reduced cost to metamagics elsewhere (though slighlt less reduction than you've put in maybe in some cases). Keep the tree specialized in Evocation and a little bit of conjuration as core focus.

So...

Warmage Spell Mastery I
Your spell like abilities gain the benefits of extend spell.
Reduce the additional cost of extend spell for your evocation and conjuration spells by X.

You've got 5 tiers to work with. I'd treat the SLA's and cost reductions as your source of SP sustain (And well... Sorcerer), because that copypasta might get a little abusable :P

This is just brainstorming of course, refining the core concept of the tree. I really don't have any idea what the L20 Core should be though. It should be something rewarding non-multiclass of course, enough to make going single class attractive. But thematically and mechanically speaking...

Silverleafeon
08-05-2014, 08:41 PM
I like that.

I am starting to envision the Warmage as one who wades into battle with some armor, saves sp by having lots of SLAs, has bonus metamagics that only benefit his SLAs, removing any crit multiplies to prevent overpowered, keeping focus on evocation and conjuration, looking over other non arcane spell lists for possible choices, etc...

I am picturing a true warmage as being battlefield worthy and able to keep continual sustained artillery on the foes....

autochthon
08-05-2014, 08:48 PM
I like that.

I am starting to envision the Warmage as one who wades into battle with some armor, saves sp by having lots of SLAs, has bonus metamagics that only benefit his SLAs, removing any crit multiplies to prevent overpowered, keeping focus on evocation and conjuration, looking over other non arcane spell lists for possible choices, etc...

I am picturing a true warmage as being battlefield worthy and able to keep continual sustained artillery on the foes....

I've been rather intrigued by the concept of "Warmage Spellslots" as SLA slots you change when you rest.

So...

Warmage Metamagic Mastery I-V
SLA metamagic

and

Warmage Spell Mastery (Core 20?)
Whenever you rest you may choose one Evocation spell of each spell level you may cast. You cast these spells as spell-like abilites until your next rest.

(No broken CDs and no broken costs here)

Nayus
08-05-2014, 08:58 PM
Tell me something:

What Nuking Sorcerer in this world will NOT take this tree? This is just a savant that isn't bound to a single element.

autochthon
08-05-2014, 09:05 PM
Tell me something:

What Nuking Sorcerer in this world will NOT take this tree? This is just a savant that isn't bound to a single element.

Would need personal spellpower reduced a bit to compensate I suppose. I heard about some upcoming changes to Empower/Maximize to make them less overall spellpower. Tho that's vague recollection.

Ideally going full warmage should be about closer-range spells and flexibility (also lots of spamming). Going Savant should be about monstrous elemental focus. The problem is balancing.

Edit: First step is .5 Spellpower per point in tree and +.25 on close range spells per point in tree.

Silverleafeon
08-05-2014, 09:52 PM
Round 5 is up.

Removed all critical bonuses, increased amount of SLAs greatly.
Assigned bonus spells, including a controversial ones at 18 and 20.
Granted metamagics for SLAs only.
Left Warmage edge as a universal spellpower bonus from Charima modifier inside tier 5.

Silverleafeon
08-05-2014, 10:07 PM
Tell me something:

What Nuking Sorcerer in this world will NOT take this tree? This is just a savant that isn't bound to a single element.

An excellent question.

You are losing the +8 critical chance, +60 element power, +6 caster level, +6 max caster level, capstones, etc..

However you gain +1 universal spell power instead of .75 universal spell power for point spent in tree.

Say you spent 40 points in the tree. You have gained 10 universal spell power from that.
Then you gain 30 to 40 from Warmage edge.
Then with your SLAs you gain big.

So yes we might have to tone down the core 1 ability to .75 or lower.

Edit, dropped the core 1 down to 0.5 universal spell power per point spent.

hale99
08-06-2014, 01:21 AM
Ok Fawn, my friend, I wanted to see how this progressed before I would give you my promised Weigh in. So with out further ado.

Being a 3.5 PnP player I have played and seen several people in my gaming group play a Warmage. It s really interesting "Class" Now I would love to see it brought in as its own class, but not as a Prestige. Warmages have a lot of differences and things that make them so they will not fit well with sorcerers.

The thing about Warmages that make them so awesome in my opinion is how they can choose to just have a auto nuke, plus their edge is amazing :D However when it comes to mixing them with DDO I see several issues....

First - They have no synergy with Sorcerers, sorcerers are elementalists, Warmages are just plain "Hey! Ima nuke you all!" Their spells have some elemental aspects but by far they were not meant to be mixed. Spell selections are different too, so that would have to be taken into account. Mixing them isn't doing Warmage justice.

Second - This is my second big thing, the edge wouldn't really matter at all in DDO. Lets look at it number wise, I mean adding a extra 20 - 30 points( could be higher or lower just a little range) on in DDO isn't going to be all that much, especially in EE's, eH's even. Plus its based off Int.... having a it in a Tree or prestige only for Charisma based casters doesn't really make sense to me.

I do however want to give you credit on this, the work you put into it is amazing and the thought. Its more than most would do, but to me i don't see this being viable. You will have to get ahold of me in game and we can discuss more :D I would like to see other caster types added in eventually, just hoping DDO doesn't totally screw them up hehe.

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 02:08 AM
Yes, either I offer Warmage as Sorcerer Evocator less powerful than Savant and therefore waste the dev's time.
Or I offer Warmage as a Sorcerer Evocator more powerful than Savant and therefore ruin the existing prestige class.

There should be another Sorcerer tree someday, but it should be distinctly different from Savant.
I might fold these ideas into another tree idea.


So, going to think about this awhile, but will go back to my Warlock project as a possible someday future class for DDO,
which is where the discussion about Warmage started from.

I have been unsure about where to place the new class in the forums, and might want to work a round more on it.
But I will bring it out.


All the feedback is appreciated, and will be reported in the PC forums when I am finished here, I promise.
Thank You.

Any amount of time we save the Devs is helpful, and this might confirm why the long ago public suggestions for more Sorcerer Trees were very different sounding than another evoker tree?

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 06:34 AM
Warmage round 6

It looks like Warmage as either a Sorcerer or a Wizard tree would prove too competitive with the Savant and Archmage trees respectively. They would either be less powerful than them and hence be wasted coding or they would be more powerful and would outdate existing coding thereby either way promoting wasteful coding time by the Devs.


To convert Warmage into own class will be the discussion of round 7, however the Warlock class may be preferable as a new class over the Warmage, although the Warmage could eaiser to convert.

The same rule could very well apply to classes as well as trees, that classes that are too similar and competitive with others will result in wasted coding time as they might underperform compared to or obsolete existing classes.

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 06:42 AM
The best literal conversion of Sudden Metamagics shown thus far is in the form of a series of action boosts.

Action Boost Sudden _____ Metamagic

For the next 20 seconds the sp cost of _______ Metamagic is zero.

autochthon
08-06-2014, 06:54 AM
Warmage round 6

It looks like Warmage as either a Sorcerer or a Wizard tree would prove too competitive with the Savant and Archmage trees respectively. They would either be less powerful than them and hence be wasted coding or they would be more powerful and would outdate existing coding thereby either way promoting wasteful coding time by the Devs.


To convert Warmage into own class will be the discussion of round 7, however the Warlock class may be preferable as a new class over the Warmage, although the Warmage could eaiser to convert.

The same rule could very well apply to classes as well as trees, that classes that are too similar and competitive with others will result in wasted coding time as they might underperform compared to or obsolete existing classes.I think the SLA overload tree looks fun and isn't all that competitive with the other prestiges >.<

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 07:13 AM
shifting

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 07:22 AM
The Warmage Class

A militant spellcaster whose training focuses on battlefield magic.


Hit die d6

Skill points 2 + Int

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Warmages are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and light shields. There is no ASF associated with these.


At 8th level, a warmage gains proficiency with medium armor (see Armored Mage, below). There is no ASF associated with these.

Spell Casting ~ Charisma based ; Spells learned are the same as a Sorcerer.

Warmage Edge (Ex): A warmage is specialized in dealing damage with his spells. Whenever a warmage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt. For instance, if a 1st-level warmage with 17 Intelligence casts magic missile, he deals
1d4+1 points of damage normally, plus an extra 3 points of damage due to his Intelligence bonus. The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class.

A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. For instance, a fireball deals the extra damage to all creatures in the area it affects. However, if a 3rd-level warmage casts magic missile and produces two missiles, only one of them (of the warmage's choice) gains the extra damage, even if both missiles are directed at the same target. If a spell deals damage for more than 1 round, it deals this extra damage in each round.

Magic Items used by a warmage do not gain any benefit from warmage edge.

Sudden Empower: At 7th level, a warmage gains Sudden Empower as an Action Boost. The Sudden Metamagic Action Boosts reduced the sp cost of that particular metamagic to zero.

Sudden Enlarge: At 10th level, a warmage gains Sudden Enlarge as an Action Boost. The Sudden Metamagic Action Boosts reduced the sp cost of that particular metamagic to zero.

Sudden Maximize: At 20th level, a warmage gains Sudden Maximize as an Action Boost. The Sudden Metamagic Action Boosts reduced the sp cost of that particular metamagic to zero.



Warmage Class Spell list:


Level 1
Acid Spray
Burning Hands
Chill Touch
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Niac' Cold Ray
Sonic Blast


Level 2
Electric Loop
Flaming Sphere
Scorch
Searing Ray
Snowball Storm
Melf's Acid Arrow



Level 3

Fire Shield
Fireball
Flame Arrow
Gust of Wind
Ice Storm
Lightning Bolt
Poison
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Acid Blast
Chain Missles


Level 4

Contagion
Phantasmal Killer
Shout
Wall of Fire
Acid Rain
Force Missiles


Level 5
Cloud Kill
Ball Lightning
Cone of Cold
Flamestrike
Prismatic Ray
Cyclonic Blast
Eladar's Electric Surge
Niac's Biting Cold


Level 6

Acid Fog
Blade Barrier
Chain Lightning
Circle of Death
Disintegrate
Fire Seeds
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
Tenser's Transformation



Level 7

Delayed Blast Fireball
Earthquake
Finger of Death
Prismatic Spray
Sun Beam
Waves of Exhaustion


Level 8

Horrid Wilting
Incendiary Cloud
Polar Ray
Greater Shout
Sunburst
Black Dragon Bolt



Level 9

Implosion
Meteor Swarm
Wail of the Banshee

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 07:30 AM
Literal Conversion of the Warmage Class is up.
I don't think that Warmage would become Cha because it is obviously double ability like Favored Soul is.



I think the SLA overload tree looks fun and isn't all that competitive with the other prestiges >.<

Well, we shall have to take one last look at round 6 and reconsider it closely then.

Thank you.

Anyone else feel that way?

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 07:49 AM
Round 8 Warmage tree for Sorcerers

Fluff:
An Arcane Master who plunges into the thick of battle to provide artillery support to the troops.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.5 Universal Spell Power.
You add to your known spell list Shield as a first level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Selecting this enhancement will prevent you from spending points in the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree.


Core 3
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Blur as a second level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Enlarge
All your SLA spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 6
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Displacement as a third level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Quicken
All your SLA spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 12
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list Fire Shield as a fourth level evocation Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Empower
All your SLA spells have the Empower metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 18
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Disintegrate spell as a sixth level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Heighten
All your SLA spells have the heighten metamagic feat applied to them.


Core 20
+2 Charisma +2 Constitution
Bonus Spell
You add to your known spell list the Polar Ray spell as a eighth level Sorcerer spell.
Sudden Maximize
All your SLA spells have the Maximize metamagic feat applied to them.



Tier One


Elemental Cannon I:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Magic Missile
You gain Magic Missile as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Toughness
+5/10/15 hit points
Cost 1/1/1


Battlefield Caster
+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.
Cost 1/1/1


Skills of the Battlefield
+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft.
Tier 3, you gain +30 sp
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Two


Sonic Blast
You gain Sonic Blast as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Nimbus of Light
You gain Nimbus of Light as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 4/3/2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap


Shield Training
Passive: You gain proficiency with all shields except Tower Shields, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from equipped shields except Tower Shields
Cost 2 ap


Light Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Light Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Light armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Mirthal Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Mithral Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Wand and Scroll Mastery
+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.
Cost 1/1/1



Tier Three


Searing Light
You gain Searing Light as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
You gain Lesser Globe of Invulnerabilityas an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus I:
You gain the feat: Combat Casting
Cost 2 ap


Spell Penatration:
You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance
Cost 2


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Four


Elemental Cannon II:
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Scorch, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2
Requirements Elemental Cannon I


Chain Missiles
You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap


Medium Armor Proficiency
Passive: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Medium Armor.
{If you are warforged, you gain the Adamantine Body feat instead, and you do not suffer Arcane Spell Failure chance from Adamantine Body.}
Cost 2 ap


Charima Bonus:
You add +1 Cha



Tier Five


Multi-select Evocation/Conjuration Focus
Choose one of the following:
You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
You have trained extensively in Conjuration magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
Cost 2 ap


Elemental Cannon III
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Frost Lance, Acid Blast, Fireball, Lightning Bolt
(Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
Cost 2 ap
Requires Elemental Cannon II


Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.


Battlefield Mastery
60 second buff with a 2 minute cooldown that makes your spells uninterruptable for the duration
{requires Battle Field Focus II}
Cost 2 ap


Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds his Charimsa Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 07:57 AM
Removed the Heal/Blade Barrier granted spells from round 6 and replaced them with Discentegrate and Polar Ray.
Thereby offering more spell slots since all the spells picked as quality ones that most sorcerers would choose, but avoiding the power creep of divine spells. The only divine spells introduced here are nimbus of light and searing light as combat SLAs.


Hmm...dropping from 1 USP per point to 0.5 USP per point may have done the trick.

The SLA metamagic does free up feat slots without overpowering things, because you cannot get any higher power by retaking the metamagics whereas if they offered plain spell power you could.

The SLA overload totals 7 offensive SLAs and 1 defensive SLA compared to Druid offering 6 offensive SLAs and 1 healing SLA.


Maybe, just maybe we got something here?!?

autochthon
08-06-2014, 09:47 AM
Spam that heightened maximized empowered quickened enlarges Ice Lance!

(No seriously I rather like the tree, and it synergizes with Savants without overshadowing them I think)

Silverleafeon
08-06-2014, 04:52 PM
Spam that heightened maximized empowered quickened enlarges Ice Lance!

(No seriously I rather like the tree, and it synergizes with Savants without overshadowing them I think)

Smiles brightly...

Minrothad
08-06-2014, 11:13 PM
Too bad, I was looking forward to having free blade barrier on my sorcerer.

Still looks pretty good, as I see it, it's basically a line that plays with metas/sla, at least that's the only reason why I would take it on my toon. I said before that it was OP because of having so many OP SLAs, but I don't see any reason to remove all of them and at the same time change the spell power per point to 0.5. With that low spell power it sounds like it should have at least one good SLA outside of the same shiradi spamming circle spells. At least one divine spell we can use in endgame content.

A good final core is missing IMO, it just seems too similar to the others and it doesn't seem strong enough to add any incentive to go pure sorcerer, especially now that each point spent only gives 0.5.

Either way, good work.

EDIT: Could we also get a bugged metamagic enhancement that stacks with the same enhancements from the other trees like wizards have? Please?

Seikojin
08-07-2014, 02:00 AM
I like round 8. I think overall it is strong and paired with a savant, it makes a nuking ek, like everyone wants. It would pair well with other spellcasting classes like bard and arti, or druid. It definitely would make a player do savant and warmage instead of two savants.

mezzorco
08-07-2014, 03:10 AM
Battlefield Instinct
You may apply the higher of your intelligence or your charisma as your spellcraft ability skill bonus.

Warmage Edge
A Warmage adds his Charimsa Modifier to their universal spell power.
Cost 2 ap


They're basically the same enhancement. They're both in tier 5 so a player will feel like spending APs on the same enhancement twice (for twice the bonus of course).

I suggest to change Battlefield Instinct to something else for two reasons:
- it's less powerful than warmage edge
- it could be hard to code

I spent some time thinking about how to replace Battlefield Instinct, but with no results :(

Silverleafeon
08-07-2014, 03:10 AM
Too bad, I was looking forward to having free blade barrier on my sorcerer.

Still looks pretty good, as I see it, it's basically a line that plays with metas/sla, at least that's the only reason why I would take it on my toon. I said before that it was OP because of having so many OP SLAs, but I don't see any reason to remove all of them and at the same time change the spell power per point to 0.5. With that low spell power it sounds like it should have at least one good SLA outside of the same shiradi spamming circle spells. At least one divine spell we can use in endgame content.

A good final core is missing IMO, it just seems too similar to the others and it doesn't seem strong enough to add any incentive to go pure sorcerer, especially now that each point spent only gives 0.5.

Either way, good work.

EDIT: Could we also get a bugged metamagic enhancement that stacks with the same enhancements from the other trees like wizards have? Please?

Perhaps we could have blade barrier at the level 20 core in place of polar ray?
That would make a unique capstone?

And perhaps we could ponder one more good sla, maybe make the core 18 a good sla?


I like round 8. I think overall it is strong and paired with a savant, it makes a nuking ek, like everyone wants. It would pair well with other spellcasting classes like bard and arti, or druid. It definitely would make a player do savant and warmage instead of two savants.

Nods sagely...

Silverleafeon
08-07-2014, 03:14 AM
They're basically the same enhancement. They're both in tier 5 so a player will feel like spending APs on the same enhancement twice (for twice the bonus of course).

I suggest to change Battlefield Instinct to something else for two reasons:
- it's less powerful than warmage edge
- it could be hard to code

I spent some time thinking about how to replace Battlefield Instinct, but with no results :(

You have a point there.

I guess we could, make Warmage Edge read Charisma Score instead of Charisma Modifier?
That would mollify those not liking the 0.5 usp per point spent.
Then we could add another SLA there in tier 5.
Then we could have core 20 grant blade barrier.

autochthon
08-07-2014, 07:34 AM
You have a point there.

I guess we could, make Warmage Edge read Charisma Score instead of Charisma Modifier?
That would mollify those not liking the 0.5 usp per point spent.
Then we could add another SLA there in tier 5.
Then we could have core 20 grant blade barrier.

Yes.
(Yes.)
Oh very much yes.
Totes awesome.

I would like to point out that a warmage with that tree is getting 5 free feats as long as they stick to SLA (which isn't going to be hard) for their offensive spells. So goodbye feat starvation. The SP in tree is a lot higher than it looks because of that.

Giving the tree one last once-over I realized it's got magic missile spells. Are there more multi-selector potential spells that could go in those places? Perhaps duplicates for the other multiselectors in those tiers? So you can have more than one elemental SLA set.

a) Because multiselectors rock.
b) Because 41 WM, XX Savant, XX Savant will be a thing.
c) Because SLAs have longer CD than sorc casting by default (or should).
d) Because when I put together a potential EK tree it involved magic missile mastery (and you may pitch that rework + warmage tree).
e) All of the above.

Not to be too egocentric or whatever.

Minrothad
08-07-2014, 10:58 AM
Perhaps we could have blade barrier at the level 20 core in place of polar ray?
That would make a unique capstone?

And perhaps we could ponder one more good sla, maybe make the core 18 a good sla?



Nods sagely...

Now this would be interesting and a good reason to start going pure sorcerer.

Silverleafeon
08-07-2014, 02:27 PM
Sounds great, I will try to have next round up sometime this week.

Silverleafeon
08-07-2014, 11:11 PM
Round 9 is up!


Changes:

Warmage edge is now Charisma Score.
There is no longer a choice to use charisma for spellcraft.

The SLAs have been reshuffled to give more choices and variety as well as more tier 5 power.

Cores 12, 18, and capstone have changed
12 ~ Disintegrate as a level 6 known spell
18 ~ Sunbeam as a level 7 known spell
20 ~ Blade Barrier as a level 8 known spell



Be back next week, thanks very much for all the feedback, you folks are great!

autochthon
08-08-2014, 04:44 AM
Much variety. Such awesome.

Savant double dippers will be pleased.

thesnoman
08-08-2014, 06:16 AM
OK - the more and more that I look at this thread, do the math, and figure the different permutations of this as a 20 Sorcerer, the more I realize that this simply will NOT work as a Sorcerer Tree - taking this tree and dipping into any Savant will simply make this far too powerful. The ONLY way to make this work is to lock out ALL savant trees when the first core enhancement is taken.

On the other hand, lets look at making this a class. I don't think Silverleafeon's translation into a class quite works - too much similarity with Sorcerer. I will work on translating this to a Class (with multiple trees) over the weekend

autochthon
08-08-2014, 08:33 AM
OK - the more and more that I look at this thread, do the math, and figure the different permutations of this as a 20 Sorcerer, the more I realize that this simply will NOT work as a Sorcerer Tree - taking this tree and dipping into any Savant will simply make this far too powerful. The ONLY way to make this work is to lock out ALL savant trees when the first core enhancement is taken.

On the other hand, lets look at making this a class. I don't think Silverleafeon's translation into a class quite works - too much similarity with Sorcerer. I will work on translating this to a Class (with multiple trees) over the weekend

I am of the opinion that it looking too powerful has more to do with the fact that focused builds kinda suck, and that generally speaking other trees aren't powerful enough. I would however like to know what about the tree makes you feel that it is too powerful for savants.

Silverleafeon
08-08-2014, 09:51 AM
I did not note, but since the fire, acid, cold, and electric slas are copy and paste from the Savant trees, they would share cooldowns if they had the same name.

So, all you could gain from say a fire savant tree is ??
Well look at it.

More power to fire, less to cold.
More universal spellpower from points spent.
Two fire SLAs that share cooldowns with the same element.
A choice of tier 5 fire savant or tier 5 warmage.
You could take the fireball from tier 5 warmage, but that is the only noncooldownsharing fire sla you would get,
and you would get that anyway with tier 5 savant.


Now we could add to the Core 1 this:
"Choosing an Acid SLA from this tree locks you out of the Acid Savant tree;
Choosing a Cold SLA from this tree locks you out of the Cold Savant tree;
Choosing an Electric SLA from this tree locks you out of the Electric Savant tree;
Choosing a Fire SLA from this tree locks you out of the Fire Savant tree."

If you did this, it deprives players of the fireball spell as an SLA if they chose fire,
and makes their cold spells not as good either. They could still chose acid and
electric to go with their lesser fire SLAs.

Still that is not too bad considering they have all these other choices...

If they choose tier 5 as a Savant they would get their fireball, but lose the warmage edge.

It should be noted that one cannot take the maximized feat and apply it twice to any slas.
So essentially the free feats for metamagics are more feat to spend upon Spell Focus,
Mental Toughness, and Spell Penatration making the Warmage a potential indirect
DC bonus tree.

Silverleafeon
08-08-2014, 09:52 AM
I will work on translating this to a Class (with multiple trees) over the weekend

I would love to see this and will make a spot to feature it on the first few posts of this thread.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Silverleafeon
08-08-2014, 10:20 PM
I would however like to know what about the tree makes you feel that it is too powerful for savants.

Nods, please explain.


However, locking out from the SAvant trees could be considered.

Silverleafeon
08-09-2014, 12:29 PM
I had time to think it over, and I came up with back story (roleplaying) for the Warmages.


In the beginning there were Sorcerers.

Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed.

Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power,
and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war.

Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates.

Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses.

In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed
them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields.

The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them
to study at their centers of knowledge anymore...




Core One Anitrequisite changing from Eldritch Knight to Savant.

The more I look at it, the more Savant and Warmage are totally different philosophies.
Taking Savant Cores totally messes up the philosophy of the current Warmage tree.

I do want to go back and fill in the tier 4 so we have plenty of places to spend ap.

Looking over the Eldritch Knight tree, I find their philosophies would be compatible;
and that would allow a player to mix and match sword and sorcerer if they wanted.


I know that is a decrease in power for the Warmage, but we are sitting on the high side
of power atm anyway...

Silverleafeon
08-09-2014, 12:43 PM
Round 10 is up (in post #4 as #3 is now full), and there are 60 points available to spend in the tree.
Doing so, would grant a tremendous amount of SLA (I added another one in tier 4).

So if you went Savant your favorite two elements of spell power would be higher,
but Warmage offers flexibility and lower sp costs.

Allowing the Eldritch Knight tree, gives a place to gain more spell power from action points spent,
or one could go to one's racial tree as well.

autochthon
08-09-2014, 12:58 PM
That leaves the original issue of Warmage armor masteries being objectively superior to EK armor masteries.

Silverleafeon
08-10-2014, 03:14 AM
That leaves the original issue of Warmage armor masteries being objectively superior to EK armor masteries.

True, maybe we need a action point dump slot, where we could dump our remaining 20 ap, then lock out the other trees?


Also, I need to do the math on the tree compared to Savant.

Assuming at level cap 30, a player could get a 70 charima?

60 points into warmage tree = 30 USP
Warmage Edge =70 USP
Total = 100 USP


Water Savant with Electric
80 points into two Savant trees = 60 USP
6 cold cores = +60 cold spell power -60 fire spell power
5 electric cores = +50 electric spell power
+6 caster level cold +6 max caster level cold
+8% cold crit chance
Hoarfrost: Whenever you cast a Cold damage spell, you gain +5 to your Cold Spell Power for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 1/3/5 times.

Total possible cold = 120 and a stack of 25
Total possible electric 110 and a stack of 25



But what if a player could acquire 80+ charisma.
Then Warmage Edge starts to get as good as Savant Cores, and we don't want that.
I'm afraid we will probably have to drop Warmage Edge back to Charisma Bonus instead of Charisma Score.
But we should change the tree so we can spend 80 points into it then lock out the EK tree too.

autochthon
08-10-2014, 04:32 AM
The other option is to jut not provide armor masteries. SLAs aren't subject to ASF, and in theory most of the spells you cast offensively will be SLAs. It remains in keeping with the limiting of armor casting to class spells in PnP

Silverleafeon
08-10-2014, 05:02 AM
The other option is to jut not provide armor masteries. SLAs aren't subject to ASF, and in theory most of the spells you cast offensively will be SLAs. It remains in keeping with the limiting of armor casting to class spells in PnP

So simply copy and paste the EK versions right into warmage, therefore they are equal?

Or we could just totally eliminate them?


I like the eliminating version, because then points spent in EK are worthwhile, and no need to increase total cost of Warmage tree.

Silverleafeon
08-10-2014, 08:09 AM
Round 11 is up.
The tree has a total cost of 73 ap.

Changes:
Removed hit point bonuses, and armor shield options since all of those are in the EK tree.
Added more SLAs, reorganized SLAs
Finished moving the Combat ready line down; its starts at tier 2 thru 4 now.
Changed Warmage Edge back to Cha Modifier instead of Cha Score.
Fixed an AP cost error.

Left:
Savant and Warmage are still locked out from each other.
EK tree is now the place to get your warmage armor and hit points.


Overall this tree is the heaviest SLA tree in the game, but players have always been fond of SLAs.
The spell power should be less than Savant trees, providing a distinction between the two.
Those seeking Crowd Control logically could seek either tree, but may steer towards Warmage.

autochthon
08-10-2014, 08:51 AM
So simply copy and paste the EK versions right into warmage, therefore they are equal?

Or we could just totally eliminate them?


I like the eliminating version, because then points spent in EK are worthwhile, and no need to increase total cost of Warmage tree.

Does present the interesting side effect of making warmage "melee" or "warmage only". Not a bad thing, plus the SLA overload is super fun.

jakeelala
08-12-2014, 10:26 AM
this just looks like a OP Archmage. Nothing about this says Warmage.

Silverleafeon
08-14-2014, 09:38 AM
this just looks like a OP Archmage. Nothing about this says Warmage.

I did a bit of googling the other day, looking for a new name for theme for this prestige class.

Again I find the wall of double evocation trees a bit limiting.

If the tree is overpowered, we could insert into every core:

"All your spell DCs are reduced by one, except conjuration and evocation."
{This would more than justify the bonuses.}


Leaving us with new player trap and the discomfort of another Socerer tree with penalties/bonuses in it.


I could be wrong, but I feel like players might like a generalized Socerer tree or a DC sorcerer tree.
Perhaps a duplicate of Archmage or the like, but Sorcerer like.



On another note, while a new Sorcerer tree seem no closer than before, a Dev has read thru this thread and lifted two brainstorming ideas therein for a possible project of their own. Hence, while being vague, I will say our time here has not been in vain...

Silverleafeon
08-14-2014, 08:27 PM
Round 12 is up.

Changes:

Removed conjuration spells from SLA lists.
Tier 5 is now only +1 Evocation DC, as the conjuration option has been removed.
{This is a shift toward evocation only.}

Each core warmage grants a reduce in total arcane spell failure by four percent.
{This is to represent armor ability (which can be gotten thru feats or the EK tree.}

Each core warmage grants a -1 DC penalty to all non evocation spells you cast.
{This is to represent the warmage's very limited spell selection. Instead of prohibiting spells, a warmage is simply far less good at casting them. Hopefully simpler coding than a whole new class.}




I am reluctant do this as I really liked round 11, and I will present both versions, as well as the alternates other players have posted.


In order to compensate for the limitations of this tree, I would like to work on a general tree as well, perhaps even one that could be inserted as an extra tree into clerics, favored souls, wizards, druids, and sorcerers. As an extra tree.

autochthon
08-16-2014, 07:43 AM
I would like to point out that the round 11 tree is focused entirely around SLAs and doesn't play nice with metamagic for actual spells (of course I'm of the opinion that next caster pass should cause SLAs to put their duplicate spell version on cooldown for the SLA duration, for balance). Meaning while it shares / shared similarities with archmage it plays very differently (you don't want to actually cast real spells since they have full metamagic costs). OP would be taking it a bit far as a description because the tree itself absolutely hates hardcasting non-evocation spells.

That being said I came up with a solution for the tree to play nice with Savants.

L1 Core
Change Passive Spellpower to: Gain +1 Spellpower when casting your Warmage SLAs for each point spent in this tree.

This further reinforces the theme as a pure SLA caster, making them masters of their small spellpool (like the book) while allowing them to play nice with savants. Doing so could switch them to the original proposal of making them a "foil" to EK (antirequisite with different armor mastery, or remain as in the 11 without a savant antirequisite) and allowing them the option of specializing in an element if they so wish (which was possible in PnP) or remaining a full generalist by focusing entirely on Warmage.

Silverleafeon
08-16-2014, 04:24 PM
Great thoughts there, will ponder, anyone else have an opinion on the meandering path of this thread?

Silverleafeon
08-16-2014, 09:16 PM
Ok, round 13 is up.

The cores have been totally changed in several ways.

Each core except for core one receives as SLA that is a spell not normally available to Sorcerers.
{This represents the Warmages unique spell list.}

Cores 12, 18, and 20 receive Echew, Enlarge, and Quickened applied to all your spells for free.
{This represents the Sudden metamagic ability.}

The idea here is that a typical Warmage will pick up Heightened, Empower, and Max as regular feats, and this promotes often neglected metamagics. {All round 12 did was free out feats, and since Warmage has huge penalties with other schools there is not a whole lot to spend on feats besides mental toughness and armor feats.} Hence the the most powerful ones have been removed.



Remaining the same:
The huge penalty for non evocation spells remains.
{This represents the Warmage's restrictive spell list in the form of poor preformace instead of total lockout.}

The reduction to overall arcane spell failure remains.
{This represents the Warmage's armor bonuses in the form of reduced ASF to blend with the EK tree.}

The antirequisite of Savant was not removed but might be. It was noted that SLAs with same name taken from Savant and Warmage should share the same cooldown.

The half point USP for each point spent remains at the moment but might need to be pondered..
{Total possible USP to be gained from the tree would be 36.5 compared with a Savant gaining 60 from two Savant trees.

However, Warmage edge add CHA modifier to USP, and a Savant tree adds up to 60 elemental power.
Assuming the Warmage has a 70 CHA, their total USP would be 66.5 compared to the Savant's 60.

This leaves Savant leading with 60 elemental power more. That is a significant power advantage for a Savant. However, they do receive -60 to an opposite element and the Warmage can apply empower and maximize for free to their many metamagics, so in the end, perhaps it should be left alone.}

Silverleafeon
08-18-2014, 06:19 PM
Salt ray can stun on failed fort save, so likely to change that to splinterbolt or the like, as a stunning sla for low level core is too good.

Zoda
08-19-2014, 03:03 AM
I was just thinking the other day that we don't have enough shiradi stuff, now archmages should come with the SP pool of sorcs! Oh, and they need blade barrier too.

Sorry, I wasn't constructive.

Silverleafeon
08-19-2014, 05:22 AM
I really like the style of divine disciple, so trying to work in that direction...

I feel like this is really missing depth and theme, so what if warmage rerolled and see what happens?


Core 1

Warmage Commander:

Follow the path of Detonator, Fortifier, Infiltrator, Summoner, Zenieth

Detonator
Fortifier
Infiltrator
Summoner
Zenith

Silverleafeon
08-19-2014, 01:32 PM
I was just thinking the other day that we don't have enough shiradi stuff, now archmages should come with the SP pool of sorcs! Oh, and they need blade barrier too.

Sorry, I wasn't constructive.

I oh agree, Warmages by nature are overpowered, and hence that is one of the points that I struggle with in this thread.

Perhaps removing magic missile, force missile, and chain missile from the SLAs would help?

Zoda
08-20-2014, 05:03 AM
I oh agree, Warmages by nature are overpowered, and hence that is one of the points that I struggle with in this thread.

Perhaps removing magic missile, force missile, and chain missile from the SLAs would help?

I don't know, if I look at that tree and take Shiradi out of the equation it looks underpowered compared to Savants. But we can't take Shiradi out of the equation, and for sure it doesn't need additional means to get exploited on an even higher level. Also that -1 DC on every school but evo per core just ensures it that you simply can't even play it out of Shiradi nearly as effectively as Savant.

I don't think that nuking sorcs need help doing what they do, sorc is already by far the most powerful of the caster classes in my book. I'd rather see Eldricht Knight reworked into a usable version (not counting bugs).

Also, I'm not gonna pretend that I have extensive knowledge on PnP (although I did play on a couple of occasions), but isn't Warmage a wizard thing? Iirc they were tied to INT and not CHA...

autochthon
08-20-2014, 10:45 PM
I don't know, if I look at that tree and take Shiradi out of the equation it looks underpowered compared to Savants. But we can't take Shiradi out of the equation, and for sure it doesn't need additional means to get exploited on an even higher level. Also that -1 DC on every school but evo per core just ensures it that you simply can't even play it out of Shiradi nearly as effectively as Savant.

I don't think that nuking sorcs need help doing what they do, sorc is already by far the most powerful of the caster classes in my book. I'd rather see Eldricht Knight reworked into a usable version (not counting bugs).

Also, I'm not gonna pretend that I have extensive knowledge on PnP (although I did play on a couple of occasions), but isn't Warmage a wizard thing? Iirc they were tied to INT and not CHA...

Warmage's in PnP are Cha spontaneous spellcasters, with a class feature adding +Int Mod to spell damage. They're in a weird place.

That said removal of the force spells would probably effectively neuter Warmage as a shiradi option. With that happening it might actually be suitable to put more power in the tree (to make something competitive with shiradi). Sounds like a decent compromise.

I too would like an EK rework. Though calling Sorc most powerful spellcaster is... I dunno. I feel like Wizard has some features making it better at things.

Silverleafeon
08-21-2014, 04:11 AM
Ok, one more try at this tree.
Round 14 is up.

Changes:

Removed the multi-projectile force SLAs from the tree ~ Magic Missile, Chain Missile, and Force Missile.
Thereby removing the Shirdai power play.

Revised the Cores again and simplified them

Core 1 now grants +0.5 universal spell power per point spent, and a penalty of -1 to your spell DCs.
Core 3 grants a 10% reduction of arcane spell failure.
Core 6 grants free eschew materials to all your spells.
Core 12 grants free enlarge to all your spells
Core 18 grants free quicken to all your spells.
Core 20 grants +2 Cha and a Blade Barrier SLA

The tier 3 SLAs were removed and the gust of wind sla was moved downward to replace magic missile in tier two.

New for tier three is:

Detonator
Upon taking damage there is a 5% chance to cause a blast around you dealing Sorcerer Level fire damage.
AP Cost 2 ap


Battlefield Commander:
Your summoned creatures, charmed minions, and hirelings have +2 to all ability scores and increased fortification (+25%).
AP Cost 2 ap


Revised for tier three is the addition of usp here:

Battlefield Focus II:
You gain the feat Mobil Spellcasting and +10 universal spell power.
{requires Battle Field Focus I}
Cost 2 ap



Tier five grants +2 evocation DCs, removing the penalty gained in Core 1.
I felt like -6 to all spell schools seriously limited the tree as a whole.
For better or for worse, I removed the restrictions from Savant and EK, hoping it will not be broken.
It would be assumed that SLAs with the same name would share cooldowns, as I know spells of the same name do share cooldown when earned from different classes.

Zoda
08-21-2014, 05:11 AM
Battlefield Commander:
Your summoned creatures, charmed minions, and hirelings have +2 to all ability scores and increased fortification (+25%).
AP Cost 2 ap


lolwhat

Silverleafeon
08-22-2014, 12:57 PM
lolwhat

The idea was Warmage = magic user in army type conditions = inspiration to the troops.
However, we can move that one out, and replace with something better.

Although I am sure that Warmages would love to have spell pen, I am not sure that fits the classic warmage profile very well.
Probably want to redo the Tier three with a theme that is flavorful, as we have a lot of bread and butter SLAs and not a whole lot else.

Working on it, and ty.

HatsuharuZ
08-24-2014, 12:51 AM
The idea was Warmage = magic user in army type conditions = inspiration to the troops.
However, we can move that one out, and replace with something better.

Although I am sure that Warmages would love to have spell pen, I am not sure that fits the classic warmage profile very well.
Probably want to redo the Tier three with a theme that is flavorful, as we have a lot of bread and butter SLAs and not a whole lot else.

Working on it, and ty.

Make it a multi-enhancement selector. Someone is going to use that enhancement, but not everyone will want it.

Silverleafeon
08-24-2014, 09:36 PM
Drawing from the 5th edition core rules, I see Sorcerer getting bonus metamagics and being tied deeply with dragons.
So....


Changes shown below.


Round 15 Draconic Warmage tree for Sorcerers
{ap cost 6+15+14+12+13+13 = 73 total for tree}

Fluff:

In the beginning there were Sorcerers. Then eventually two ancient schools of thought developed. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art and an expression of elemental power, and those who viewed Sorcery as a tool for war. Those who viewed Sorcery as an art gather centers of knowledge near their elemental climates. Those who viewed Sorcery as a tool where employed as mercenaries for the Houses. In time these two schools began facing each other in duals of magic as politics and wars pushed them out of the towers of knowledge unto the battlefields. The feud grew and in time, the Savants distanced themselves from the Warmage not allowing them to study at their centers of knowledge anymore. So the Warmage turned to the Dragons as their foundation of knowledge and admiration.


Core Abilities


Core 1
Draconic Training ~ Spell Power
Every point you spend in the Warmage enhancement tree provides +0.50 Universal Spell Power.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.
Choosing this core will lock out the Savant Tree Core enhancements, and you cannot take this core if you already have points spent in a Savant tree.


Core 3
Draconic Training ~ Armor Readiness
Your Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by your Sorcerer levels.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 6
Draconic Training ~ Eschew Materials
All your spells have the Eschew Materials metamagic feat applied to them for free.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 12
Draconic Training ~ Enlarge
All your spells have the enlarge metamagic feat applied to them for free.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.


Core 18
Draconic Training ~ Quicken
All your spells have the quicken metamagic feat applied to them for free.
Draconic Sacrifice ~ choose a school of magic other than Evocation, your DCs for that school are reduced by two, you cannot choose a school that you have already chosen for Draconic Sacrifice.



Added Niac's Cold Ray, Acid Arrow, and Acid Blast SLAs back into their respective groupings in tier 1,4,5


Tier Three


Detonator
Upon casting a spell there is a 1/3/5% chance to cause a blast around you dealing Sorcerer Level random damage type.
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap


Draconic Scales:
You gain stacking +2/4/6 natural armor.
AP Cost 1/1/1 ap

Silverleafeon
08-24-2014, 09:40 PM
Make it a multi-enhancement selector. Someone is going to use that enhancement, but not everyone will want it.

Left it in, there is plenty to spend points on in this tree anyway...thanks.

Silverleafeon
08-25-2014, 11:08 PM
Our Barbarian pass will not be 23; we are currently planning at looking into Barbarians for 24, assuming plans don't change. (Which they often do.)

Sev~

Due to this development, I will be spending more time on my barbarian project.
Please leave feedback as you notice things, and THANK YOU for all your great help.

Nayus
08-25-2014, 11:15 PM
You're welcome.

Drathsiddh
09-15-2014, 02:34 AM
Warmage seems a pretty cool idea, but in terms of spell power, it is lacking way behind the Savants, plus it can't be an insta-killer because of the penalty's to DC's.

Also I think I have more of a Wildmage over a Warmage, but oh well.

Core One: Whenever you cast an offensive spell one random affect may trigger. This may only be produced once per second.
Blood Seeker: You gain 10 Universal spell power for the next ten seconds.
Infused Spell: Target takes 1d6 damage per Sorcerer.
Cripleding Magic: Target's movement speed is halved and it takes a -2 to Reflex Saaves.
Powerd Spell: Target is stunned for 5 seconds (save halves).
Warded Spell: You gain +10 to elemental resistance for 10 seconds.
Willpwered: You gain +2 to all saves for 10 seconds.


Core Two: +20 Universal spell power.


Core Three: Improves the random effects produced by spells which is granted at Core One
Blood Seeker: You gain 10 Universal spell power for 20 seconds.
Infuseed Spell: Target takes 1d8 damge per Sorcerer level rather than 1d6.
Cripling Magic: Targed takes -3 to reflex saves.
Powerd Spell: No save.
Warded Spell: As well as +10 MRR
Willpowered: +3 to all saves.


Core Four: +20 universal spellpower.


Core Five: + 2 Cha and now every offensive spell you cast may produce two random affects, rather than one.


Tier One:


Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp

+3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding a Shield or Staff.

+1/+2/+3 Concentration, Balance, and Spellcraft. Tier 3, you gain +30 sp

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp
Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Niac's Cold Ray, Shocking Grasp


Tier Two:

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Gust of Wind, Nimbus of Light, or Sonic Blast

You gain the feat: Combat Casting

+25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands.


Tier Three:
MultiSelection, choose one of:
When you cast an Abjuration Spell you gain +1 PRR and MRR per Sorcerer level for 2 minutes.
When you cast an Evocation spell you gain +20 bonus to spell power.
When you cast a Necromancy Spell you gain temporary Hit points equal to your Sorcer level times 2.
However you take a -1 to the DCs of a school that is not displayed here.

-1/2/4 to the aditional spell point cost of all metamagics.

You gain Mobile Spell casting as a feat

+1 Cha

+1 caster level for Abjuration, Evocation and Necromany spells


Tier Four:

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Arrow, Electric Loop, Scorch, Searing Light, Snowball Swarm

Multiselection: Chose one option that you did not pick at Tier Two.
When you cast an Abjuration Spell you gain +1 PRR and MRR per Sorcerer level for 2 minutes.
When you cast an Evocation spell you gain +20 bonus to spell power.
When you cast a Necromancy Spell you gain temporary Hit points equal to your Sorcerer level times 2.


Tier Five:

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt

Multi-selection. Choose one of the following as an SLA that you have not already chosen:
Acid Blast, Frost Lance, Fireball, Lightning Bolt

A Warmage adds their Charisma Modifier to their universal spell power.

Multi-Selection: Choose one option that you did not pick at tier four:
When you cast an Abjuration Spell you gain +1 PRR and MRR per Sorcerer level for 2 minutes.
When you cast an Evocation spell you gain +20 bonus to spell power.
When you cast a Necromancy Spell you gain temporary Hit points equal to your Sorcerer level times 2.


Just realized that I was late in this post, oh well..

Silverleafeon
09-15-2014, 05:10 AM
Warmage seems a pretty cool idea, but in terms of spell power, it is lacking way behind the Savants, plus it can't be an insta-killer because of the penalty's to DC's.

Also I think I have more of a Wildmage over a Warmage, but oh well.


Added to post 5 on page 1, and THANK YOU.

This is actually a SUPER IDEA, wildmage might be a far better choice than warmage for the next sorcerer tree.
I might post more later, great work.


It is never too late to post here, till the tree actually appears....

Silverleafeon
09-16-2014, 03:21 AM
I will not forget this thread, but I am slightly more busy atm.

A sign of lamania coding coming to a close means a possible burst of activity behind the scenes as Devs begin pondering the next update.

DrWily
09-16-2014, 10:43 PM
Warmage seems a pretty cool idea, but in terms of spell power, it is lacking way behind the Savants, plus it can't be an insta-killer because of the penalty's to DC's.

Also I think I have more of a Wildmage over a Warmage, but oh well.
I have an idea for a Wild Mage, though Wild mage is more of a Wizard tree than a Sorc Tree. I still want to see if Turbine will eventually implement Acolyte of the Skin like they said they would like 5 years or so ago...

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 06:45 AM
I have an idea for a Wild Mage, though Wild mage is more of a Wizard tree than a Sorc Tree. I still want to see if Turbine will eventually implement Acolyte of the Skin like they said they would like 5 years or so ago...

I think maybe we should consider that an amplified brainstorming session and not a sincere promise.

Currently the Devs promise not to make promises, lol, a paradox of sorts.

Acolyte of the skin (which need renaming to maintain a teen rating) is a tree that Warlock and Sorcerer might could share?

Silverleafeon
09-17-2014, 10:14 AM
On the other hand, if I don't take on Acoylyte of the Skin as a project and either see it fail or become something interesting, then who will?

Current Favored Soul and Druid lost trees are coming along very nicely, and I seem to have a few spare days again the PC forums, so...why not?

Will put up a project for it, reminding people the Devs seem to be more interested in the lost trees than a new sorcerer tree, but they do have a mind of their own....