View Full Version : Flavor 1: SB Help

07-26-2014, 08:37 AM
After a fair amount of forum reading, it seems that the SB is possibly the best of the three bard types to take a deep splash. In this exercise and since we don't have an updated planner (Ron and his team ROCK btw!), I thought that I would start with a list of feats and see where that takes me. For SB, the feat list was quite long which seemed to imply "splash fighter for sure". That meant losing out on the Evasion capstone. That then screamed "splash rogue". Okay, this is probably a departure from what others might think, but I have always love splashing rogue. I love the utility and the evasion (from when the level cap was 12!!!). I went through the planner and ordered the feats and used a PDK. Here is what I came up with:

1 - Fighter - SWF, Precision, Shield Mastery
2 - Bard
3 - Rogue - Extend
4, 5 - Bard
6 - Bard - ISWF (admittedly, I am only guessing I can take this here, but really no clue)
7, 8 - Bard
9 - Bard - Empower Healing
10 - Fighter - Dodge
11 - Fighter
12 - Bard - IC:Pierce
13 - Bard
14 - Fighter - Improved Shield Mastery
15 - Bard - GSWF
16, 17 - Bard
18 - Rogue - Quicken
19, 20 - Bard

Given that I wouldn't use a +1 heart to swap to Rogue at level 1, the class order, and hence the skill distribution, is a bit wonky. I was able to keep Disable, Search, Spot, Perform all maxed. I did fairly well with Open Lock, but not so well with UMD, Spellcraft, and Heal. Sad, but I think I can live with that.

Overall, this is a straight up Charisma build that spends most of the enhancement points in SB followed by a good bit in Stalwart. Who knew Stalwart provided such neat tools for a buckler user! So awesome! I think the only +3 tome I had budgeted here is a +3 INT tome.

Any thoughts and help would be appreciated. Should I not go with the PDK? Should I start at 7 with another race? any glaring errors here? I so look forward to swashbuckling!

Thanks all! (next post is for WC)

07-26-2014, 09:17 AM
The SWF line has the same BAB requirements as THF and TWF, so ISWF and GSWF require BAB of 6 and 11 respectively.

You won't need dodge. You're using a shield, so you get 10 from skirmisher, 3 from on your toes, 4 from cores – that's 17 right there. Equip yourself with a +8 dodge item and you're at 25%.

You don't have your epic feats listed and without dodge you've got 10 feats, so the fighter levels aren't needed for feats, and neither is PDK/human actually. However, on a cha based build, I would recommend force of personality to get an effective will save.

What's the reason for choosing PDK? Is it just to start at level 15? Or for cha to hit also (that limits you to shortswords if that's the case)?

For a 12bard/6fighter/2rogue split, I personally don't see anything better than the Dwarven Defender Parody build. That build really maximizes the reasons for going with that split and I don't see anything that other racial options offer that is worth giving up the benefits of a con based dwarf. Just my opinion.

Hope that helps.

07-26-2014, 12:17 PM
What C said

Can look at the 'PDK squashbuckler' for the PDK CHA version of the 12/6/2 split

Making 3 separate posts for similar detail is a bit much, most of the responses will be similar. Might work out, but might be more utility to combine. There's a lot of info out there already, bard forum has been one of the more active lately.

07-26-2014, 01:05 PM
What I really want to do is build 3 separate new bards using each of the new trees. I thought it best to separate them on the forums.

This thread I had the initial idea of 14/4/2. Is 12/6/2 better? I'll definitely look up the Squashbuckler. Thanks!

07-26-2014, 04:29 PM
This thread I had the initial idea of 14/4/2. Is 12/6/2 better? I'll definitely look up the Squashbuckler. Thanks!

I missed that you only had 4 levels of fighter. 4 fighter isn't really a useful breaking point for a swashbuckler. 6 fighter allows you to get the stalwart defender stance. 2 levels gets you a couple of extra feats and leaves you with enough bard levels to get the epic bard feat inspire excellence (requires 15 bard).

I would suggest 16bard/2fighter/2rogue only if you feel like you really need those 2 extra feats, which you may not since you haven't chosen anything for epic levels yet. Or 12bard/6fighter/2rogue if you want a swashbuckling stalwart defender. If you don't want a stalwart swashbuckler, and don't need the extra feats that you get with a 2 level splash, but still want trap skills, then go 18bard/2rogue so you can get the fifth core of swashbuckler.

The squashbuckler might give you some ideas, but it's a build that needs a lot of work. It spends 3 feats on dodge feats, which is definitely not necessary on a swashbuckler. The OP hasn't returned to that thread since a few days after posting it, so it's not likely to get an update anytime soon. I haven't followed the thread, though, so other posters may have provided some of the needed fixes, I don't know.

07-27-2014, 05:29 PM
Wow, that was VITAL information! Thanks!

I thought the Stalwart Stance was given upon taking that tree. Yikes!

I guess 6 levels of fighter makes the most sense for sure. Let me see what I an work up...