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unbongwah
07-11-2014, 10:40 AM
EDIT: (10/26/15) Update 28 has majorly buffed Tempest and Deepwood Stalker; U28.1 has buffed Arcane Archer but also changed how Manyshot works. You can read my thoughts here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466230-Ranger-Arcane-Archer-Changes-(Early-Autumn-Edition)?p=5711539&viewfull=1#post5711539), but tl;dr summary: archery has become an even more backloaded DPS combat style than it already was, unfortunately; but the good news is you will see a DPS increase in epics once you've geared for it.

Hello and welcome to another edition of "Revisiting the Classics," wherein I revisit old builds and spruce them up! This thread will be focused on pure builds. If you're looking for a ranger with trap skills, I suggest checking out EllisDee37's Tempest Trapmonkey (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players). If you're interested in more heavily-MCed but still mostly-rgr builds, have a look at Noyellowbar (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430998-Noyellowbar-a-100-monk-free-U19-Build-(15Ranger-4Paladin-1Fighter)) (rgr 15 / pal 4 / ftr 1).

Now, onto some general guidelines:

STR vs DEX: U28 has made DEX builds even more viable than they were before, now that Improved Weapon Finesse applies to bows as well as melee weapons. However, a pure rgr will still come out with at least +7 STR in epic lvls (Ram's Might + Primal Scream) - EDIT: and even more is possible if you have Madstone Boots (http://ddowiki.com/page/Madstone_Boots) or Titan's Grip (http://ddowiki.com/page/Gloves_of_Titan%27s_Grip) (exclusive so you can only have 1 per char, so effectively +6 STR for boss fights) - vs +4 DEX from capstone; and khopeshes are still the overall best choice for crafted / lootgen TWF DPS, which doesn't work with DEX-to-dmg. So basically it boils down to more DPS (STR-based) or higher AC & Reflex saves (DEX-based). I'm going to focus on DEX builds for this thread; for a pure STR-based rgr using khopeshes, see the Cuisinart thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/465697-The-Divine-Cuisinart-A-dual-khopesh-wielding-pure-tempest-ranger-in-divine-crusader).

Feats: The primary appeal of rangers is their versatility; they get a full set of melee & ranged feats and some useful survivability perks like Evasion, defensive buffs, and Cure spells. However, even with all their free feats, you're still feat-constrained on a pure build, which means you have to make some tough choices about what your primary build goals are:



For archery, you still want Point Blank Shot, Precision, Improved Crit:Ranged, Overwhelming Crit, Combat Archery, and Doubleshot (lvl 28 ED feat). Manyshot changes make Doubleshot crucial. [You can also add +4 Ranged Power by taking the Weapon Focus:Ranged & Thrown feats, but this is a pretty modest DPS boost, IMHO, and not worth 2 feats.]
For melee, you still want Improved Crit for your chosen melee weapons & PTWF (Primal ED feat); you also want Precision or Power Attack (or both). Cleave feats aren't as good as Dance of Death, but they're necessary if you want to use Momentum Swing + Lay Waste in Legendary Dreadnought; also Precision is disabled by Rage effects, including FotW. So plan according to which Epic Destiny you intend to use. [You can add up to +6 Melee Power by taking the melee Weapon Focus feats, which would make up for the Melee Power Turbine took away from TWF feats. But again, I don't think it's worth the 1-3 feat cost.]
For survivability, you may want some combination of Dodge bonuses (Dodge/Mobility/Spring Atk), extra HPs (Toughness+eToughness), Two Weapon Defense for extra PRR (combine w/Imp Parry from Tempest), and/or metamagics (Emp Heal+Quik+Rejuv Cocoon is a good combo for epic lvls). I'm also a sucker for Least Shadow Dragonmark feat + Gtr DM for Displacement; plus glowing facial tattoos are cool. :cool:


Skills: again, these are a matter of personal priorities. Self-heals? Max out Heal and Concentration. Want stealth? Hide & Move Silently. Spot is good for finding stealthed enemies; Search is handy for finding secret doors. [Turbine upped their DCs so True Seeing is no longer sufficient for most of them.] If you're going for AA, you'll want to max out Spellcraft, which now boosts your AA imbues. Use Magic Device (UMD) is the only skill I recommend every rgr has, since you've got plenty of skill pts to spare; even if you can't hit the magic 39 mark for Heal scrolls, UMD is still useful for lots of other things (Raise Dead scrolls, Flame Arrow wands, etc.).

The great thing about DDO is you can have two people with identical race / class combos and come up with very different results. This is not meant to be a definitive set of builds, but samples to help give you ideas.

The Classic Archer (updated 12/27/17)

First let's go with the basic leveling plan:

Classic Archer (U37)
Ranger 20
True Neutral Elf


Stats
28pt 32pt Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 8 4: DEX
Dexterity 18 18 8: DEX
Constitution 12 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 14 14 16: DEX
Wisdom 14 14 20: DEX
Charisma 8 8 24: DEX
28: DEX

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Concent 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Hide 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 23
Move Si 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 23
Spellcr 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
32 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8


Feats

1 : Point Blank Shot
3 : Precision
6 : Quicken Spell
9 : Improved Critical: Ranged
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing OR Weapon Focus: Ranged
15 : Spell Focus: Enchantment
18 : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver OR Holy Strike
27 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos OR Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Epic Reflexes OR Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Ethereal Plane OR Plane of Earth OR Feywild

1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
10 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Aberration OR Elemental
Most feats are pretty much what I expect on any ranged toon. Favored Enemies are based on what I consider the most prevalent mobs at any given level. Your final FE feat can be whatever you want based on what you plan to face in epics: elf for drow in Eveningstar, Elemental for ToEE farming, even Dragon if you (still) run eVON 6 or FTP regularly - whatever. The optional feats depend on e.g. do you want to keep melee as a backup (in which case IC:Slash + PTWF is worthwhile) or what ED you plan to use (more on that soon).

Heroic Enhancements: for heroic leveling I prefer tier-5 Deepwood Stalker (DWS) to tier-5 AA; OTOH, if you want to focus on AA imbues (esp. Paralyzing), then you should front-load those instead. So let's look at a couple of leveling plans depending on which you want to focus on first. Note that these schemes presume you want to focus purely on ranged DPS; if you also want to melee, it's a good idea to put 6 APs into Tempest ASAP for the first two cores so you can get DEX to-hit. [Improved Weapon Finesse will provide DEX to dmg so you don't need the third Tempest core.]
tier-5 DWS:

Leveling Guide


AA0 Arcane Archer; AA1 Conjure Arrows; DS0 Far Shot
DS1 Stealthy I, II, III; DS1 Favored Defense I
DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; DS0 Sneak Attack; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II
DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost III; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt I, II, III
DS3 Favored Hunter I, II, III; DS2 Faster Sneaking I
DS0 Sniper Shot; DS2 Faster Sneaking II, III; DS4 Killer I
DS4 Killer II, III; AA1 Corrosive Arrows
AA0 Morphic Arrows; AA2 Elemental Damage; AA1 Energy of the Wild I
AA1 Energy of the Wild II, III; AA3 Soul Magic; AA0 Metalline Arrows
DS2 Survivalist; DS3 Survivalist
DS4 Survivalist; Elf0 Elven Accuracy; (Bank 1 AP)
DS0 Advanced Sneak Attack; DS5 Strikes Like Lightning; DS5 Improved Archer's Focus
DS5 Heavy Draw; DS5 Extra Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
DS5 Head Shot; AA3 Elemental Damage
AA3 Terror Arrows; AA2 Force Arrows I
AA2 Force Arrows II; AA4 Paralyzing Arrows
AA4 Elemental Damage; AA4 Smiting Arrows; AA4 Banishing Arrows
Reset Elf

Deepwood Stalker: Mark of the Hunted



Arcane Archer: Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows

(none)
(none)
Dexterity



Elf0 Elven Accuracy; Elf0 Elven Dexterity; Elf0 Elven Accuracy II
DS0 Horizon Shot; Elf0 Elven Dexterity II; Elf0 Elven Accuracy III


tier-5 AA with a focus on imbues:

Leveling Guide


AA0 Arcane Archer; AA1 Conjure Arrows; DS0 Far Shot
DS1 Stealthy I, II, III; DS1 Favored Defense I
DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; DS0 Sneak Attack; AA1 Corrosive Arrows
AA2 Elemental Damage; AA2 Force Arrows I
AA0 Morphic Arrows; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II, III
DS0 Sniper Shot; AA0 Metalline Arrows; AA3 Elemental Damage
AA3 Terror Arrows; AA2 Force Arrows II
AA1 Energy of the Wild I, II, III; AA3 Soul Magic
AA4 Paralyzing Arrows; AA4 Elemental Damage
AA4 Banishing Arrows; AA4 Smiting Arrows; AA2 Force Arrows III
DS3 Favored Hunter I, II, III; (Bank 1 AP)
AA0 Aligned Arrows; AA5 Elemental Damage; AA5 Arrow of Slaying
AA5 Final Strike; AA5 Runebow
AA5 Moonbow; DS2 Survivalist
DS3 Survivalist; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt I, II
DS0 Advanced Sneak Attack; DS4 Killer I, II, III
DS4 Survivalist; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt III; DS2 Faster Sneaking I
AA0 Shadow Arrows; DS2 Faster Sneaking II, III; DS0 Mark of the Hunted
Elf0 Elven Accuracy; Elf0 Elven Dexterity; Elf0 Elven Accuracy II
AA0 Mystical Archer; Elf0 Elven Dexterity II; Elf0 Elven Accuracy III


The earliest you can grab Paralyzing Arrows is level 6 (costs 22 APs). I think it's worth delaying it a couple of levels to pick up a few things from DWS first (namely Imp Weap Finesse for DEX to dmg and Sniper Shot); but you can reset DWS @ lvl 6 to grab Paralyzing + 4th tier elemental dmg instead.

Epic Configuration: I'm not going to bother listing all possibilities because that's a serious PITA. Let's just look at two:

Burst DPS (FotW)


Feats

30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Earth

Enhancements (80 AP)

Arcane Archer (42 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer

Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike, Elemental Damage, Runebow



Deepwood Stalker (31 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack, Mark of the Hunted

Stealthy III, Increased Empathy I
Faster Sneaking III, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot
Killer III, Merciful Shot, Leg Shot



Tempest (7 AP)

Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest

Item Defense I, Improved Reaction III
Sprint Boost I




Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild

Primal Scream III, Boulder Toss III, Fast Healing III
Acute Instincts III
(none)
Gird Against Demons I, Sense Weakness III, Overwhelming Force III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury


Twists of Fate (36 fate points)

Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
School Specialist: Enchantment (Tier 2 Magister)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)


Focus of this build is on burst DPS via Manyshot + Adrenaline + (Slaying Arrow | Sniper Shot). During Unbridled Fury, rotate thru your ranged special attacks each time Adrenaline Overload pops up. Melee is there for flavor / variety and a way of recharging Adrenaline; also Adrenaline + Overwhelming Force + Merciful Strike can be a potent combo, IMO. Plus adding Spring Boost addresses one of pure rgr's shortcomings, namely no runspeed bonuses apart from Longstrider. Takes either Arborea for the extra Ranged / Melee Power (bigger burst DPS) or Plane of Earth for added acid dmg, +2 Paralyzing DCs, and +20 PRR (good combo of DPS & survivability bonuses IMO).

Listed Twists are a wishlist, not a hard requirement; I'm certainly not expecting a first-lifer to have Epic Completionist. The first priority IMO is Pin for added CC / helpless damage (though you will probably unlock Cocoon first); add the other Twists as they become available and you earn enough Fate pts for them.

Sustained DPS (Crusader)

Based on White Feather Sniper (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469680-White-Feather-Sniper-A-DPS-and-CC-focused-full-time-ranged-pure-ranger)


Ranger 20
Chaotic Good Elf

Feats

30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane

Enhancements (80 AP)

Deepwood Stalker (42 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack, Mark of the Hunted, Horizon Shot

Stealthy III, Increased Empathy I
Survivalist, Faster Sneaking III, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III
Killer III, Merciful Shot
Extra Favored Enemy: Dragon, Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot, Improved Archer's Focus



Arcane Archer (31 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows

Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
Force Arrows II, Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage



Elf (7 AP)

Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II, Elven Accuracy III



Destiny (24 AP)

Divine Crusader

Bane of Undeath, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked, Wisdom
Consecration III
Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic, Blessed Blades
No Regret, Crusade
Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion


Twists of Fate (36 fate points)

Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
School Specialist: Enchantment (Tier 2 Magister)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)


This configuration is more focused on Doubleshot (Zeal of the Righteous) and ranged sneak attacks, using the DWS capstone (Horizon Shot) plus the Ethereal Plane Scion feat. Crusader also boosts your healing (Sacred Ground), adds DR-breaking (Blessed Blades), and boosts your crit range (Celestial Champion).

You could also use the 39 DWS / 41 AA combo from Strimtom's build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly).

unbongwah
07-11-2014, 03:00 PM
Shadow Tempest (updated 9/10/17)
EDIT: Decided to drop the Dodge+Mobility feats which frees up two feat slots and a bunch of APs, which can either go towards ranged DPS or other survivability feats like Two-Weapon Defense.

Shadow Tempest
Ranger 20
True Neutral Elf


Stats
28pt 32pt Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 8 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 20 8: DEX
Constitution 12 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 14 14 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 8 20: DEX
Charisma 8 8 24: DEX
28: DEX

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Concent 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Hide 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Move Si 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spellcr 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
32 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8


Feats

1 : Precision
1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
3 : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
6 : Extend Spell OR Point Blank Shot
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
12 : Quicken Spell
15 : Two Weapon Defense OR Improved Critical: Ranged
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
18 : Empower Healing Spell
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental OR Human
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Weapon Focus: Slashing OR Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target OR Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Tempest (42 AP)

Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind, Dervish

Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
Storm Dancer, Whirling Blades, Dexterity
Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades
Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Whirling Blades, Dance of Death III



Deepwood Stalker (26 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike, Advanced Sneak Attack

Stealthy III, Tendon Cut I
Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt II, Favored Hunter III
Survivalist, Killer III



Elf (12 AP)

Elven Accuracy

Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Valenar Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Valenar Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow



Leveling Guide

DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II, III
DS1 Tendon Cut I; DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; Tem0 Shield of Whirling Steel; Tem1 Improved Defense I
Tem1 Whirling Blades; Tem1 Improved Defense II; Tem0 Tempest
Tem2 Whirling Blades; Tem2 Haste Boost I, II
Elf0 Elven Accuracy; Elf1 Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus I, II, III
Reset Deepwood Stalker

Elf

Valenar Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Valenar Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow




Tempest: Graceful Death

(none)
Haste Boost III



Tem3 Storm Dancer; Tem3 Whirling Blades
Tem2 Improved Parry I, II, III; Tem1 Improved Defense III
Tem4 Storm Tempest; Tem4 Whirling Blades
Tem4 The Growing Storm I, II, III; DS0 Far Shot
DS1 Stealthy I, II, III; DS1 Tendon Cut I
Reset Deepwood Stalker

Tempest: Deflect Arrows

(none)
(none)
Dexterity
(none)
Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III



Tem5 Dual Perfection; Tem5 Whirling Blades
DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II, III
DS1 Tendon Cut I; DS0 Sneak Attack; DS2 Survivalist
DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I; DS0 Exposing Strike
DS3 Survivalist; DS3 Favored Hunter I, II, III
Tem0 Whirlwind; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost II, III; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt I
DS3 Thrill of the Hunt II; DS0 Advanced Sneak Attack; DS4 Killer I, II
Tem0 Dervish; DS4 Killer III; DS4 Survivalist



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Damage Boost III, Constitution
Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
Volcano's Edge
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz


Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)


Tempests have become glass cannons: high melee DPS but squishy compared to barbs & pallies. This build is meant to offset some of that by going DEX-based (higher AC & Reflex saves) and Shadow Dragonmark feat (Displacement for 50% concealment); while still picking up as many melee DPS boosts as I can from DWS & Tempest.

Listed Twists are a best-case scenario; tweak based on available Fate pts as you see fit. Feat-wise, there are a few options, depending on whether you want to invest in ranged DPS (PBS+IC:Ranged+Doubleshot) or more defenses (TWD+Elusive Target). If you invest in archery feats; due to AP shortage I can't afford anything in AA, so she relies on returning / crafted / Flame Arrow ammo. Nevertheless, she'll have up to +30% Doubleshot from Killer + ED feat, so at least 150% Doubleshot during Manyshot at cap.

Scion of Ethereal Plane vs Plane of Earth largely boils to down to focusing on sneak atk dmg (by maxing out Hide skill) or 2d20 acid dmg (w/Corrosion gear). So I invested in both Hide and Spellcraft to keep my options open on this build. Or choose based on which survivability perk you want: Ethereal Plane grants perma-Invisibility Guard; PoE grants +20 PRR. Likewise, your lvl 29 Destiny feat should be either more DPS (Law / Chaos) or more survivability (Deific Warding); or you might be able to hit high enough DCs to make Dire Charge useful.

EDIT: since someone asked about the rationale of some of my epic feats:

Epic Reflexes is to hit no-fail Reflex saves so I can skip Evasive Dance, which saves me 6 APs in Tempest. Investing in Gtr Shadow DM is expensive, so I try to save APs where I can; otherwise I'd have to shave some DPS enhancements from Tempest or DWS to take Elaborate Parry + Evasive Dance.

Epic DR is part of fixing the aforementioned squishiness: +30 PRR from Tempest, +12 from DWS, and +10 from epic DR feat; 22 PRR from lt armor at lvl 30 (30 if I run with Tensers of Div Power); which puts my standing PRR at 74-82. If you take Scion of Earth, it's another +20 PRR, so let's say ~100 PRR before gear. Right now I believe the max possible PRR from gear is +70, but I haven't figured out what's an optimal gear set. 170 PRR is 63% dmg reduction.

Neither feat is essential; but both combined with other bonuses provide a nice boost to survivability to my Shadow Tempest, IMO.

Grailhawk
07-18-2014, 11:36 AM
The Whirling Dervish

This build is focused almost entirely on DPS: first on melee, then on ranged. Emp Heal + Quicken are the only real concessions to survivability; and those could be dropped from, say, Precision+Blinding Speed if you really wanted to go for broke. The +2 STR tome is necessary for Overwhelming Crit; the +3 DEX tome is necessary for Combat Archery.

The Feats are all the right choices I would probably have taken Quicken at 18 and PBS and CA at 24, 27 but the feat you choice are all dead on and probably the best spread fro a true hybrid Ranger.

I think you should re do the Enh to loose a bit out of AA and take more enough in DS to take Sniper Shot.

I think this should be the go to pure 20 Ranger build.

The default paths should use this for the melee Tempest Ranger IMO.

xberto
09-03-2014, 03:45 PM
Those are great ranger builds unbong but the best Elven Ranger for new players IMO is an Elven Shiradi Arcane Archer. Here are some advantages that would appeal to new players.

*You only need one good bow. You can use your imbues to effectively turn your bow into whatever you need.

*Great self healing

*Despite lacking some DPS, with Shiradi you can basically "lock down" mobs. Even is EE content, and new player can be helpful. I think new players especially benefit this mix of agro reduction and crowd control.

*Its just easy.

unbongwah
09-04-2014, 09:32 AM
Switching to AA is simply a matter of shifting APs around. Feel free to post suggestions on how to configure them.

daniel7
09-14-2014, 07:55 PM
Do you plan on removing cleave and great cleave?

Ausdoerrt
09-15-2014, 04:25 AM
I feel like the dump-STR ranger is the most effective one if going elf. Lets you put more points into CON/WIS/INT.

unbongwah
09-15-2014, 09:09 AM
Do you plan on removing cleave and great cleave?
Not sure, because CL/GC are there for the AoE DPS as well as the OC pre-req; plus if you use LD, you want Cleaves to reset Momentum Swing's timer. It does mean you can add OC to any DEX-based rgrs, though.

I feel like the dump-STR ranger is the most effective one if going elf. Lets you put more points into CON/WIS/INT.
As much as I like DEX / Finesse builds, WIS & INT aren't particularly important to a pure rgr like this. And going DEX-based basically commits you to taking elven Grace, which is at least 18 APs; that limits what you're able to take from other PrEs.

mezzorco
09-15-2014, 09:28 AM
CL/GC are there for the AoE DPS

They are really subpar on a TWF for AOE DPS, although they were the only choice.

As soon as U23 arrives, I would drop completely CL and GC (and even PA) from a tempest, relying only on Dance of Death.
Ten seconds duration with 15 seconds cooldown, works with mainhand, offhand, doublestrikes...It's a great improvement over CL and GC and costs no feats.

Regarding PA, since it decreases your to hit, while Precision increases it by a percent, Precision is better than PA against any enemy you don't hit on a 2. And in Epic content hitting on a 2 is not granted.
Precision is plain better against enemies with fortification, too, even if you hit them on a 2: undeads, elementals, constructs, plants, oozes, orange-named and bosses.

Grailhawk
09-15-2014, 10:34 AM
They are really subpar on a TWF for AOE DPS, although they were the only choice.

As soon as U23 arrives, I would drop completely CL and GC (and even PA) from a tempest, relying only on Dance of Death.
Ten seconds duration with 15 seconds cooldown, works with mainhand, offhand, doublestrikes...It's a great improvement over CL and GC and costs no feats.

Regarding PA, since it decreases your to hit, while Precision increases it by a percent, Precision is better than PA against any enemy you don't hit on a 2. And in Epic content hitting on a 2 is not granted.
Precision is plain better against enemies with fortification, too, even if you hit them on a 2: undeads, elementals, constructs, plants, oozes, orange-named and bosses.

I agree with this assessment U23 is changing a lot related to rangers, and this is with out even bringing up what Harper does. Know the Angles + 9 Melee power and 10% healing amp are far more attractive then the stuff in the racial trees.

pappo
09-21-2014, 08:22 PM
Are Drow good for Ranger builds ?
If so, can you point me to a link for a Drow ranger build ? I would like to do AA ranger, with some TWF when the melee gets close.

unbongwah
09-22-2014, 09:21 AM
Drow works fine for STR ranger. Elves are the only race which can get DEX to longbow dmg (Elven Grace), so they're the only viable pick for a DEX-based archer. [Why there isn't a DEX-to-ranged-dmg option in any of the rgr PREs is beyond me, but that's what happens when Turbine doesn't hire me as a consultant... ;)] If you need advice on picking feats, let me know, but converting the first build to drow is pretty straight-forward.

When U23 goes live, I'll try to remember to update these builds. As I mentioned in the OP, also have a look at Noyellowbar (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430998-Noyellowbar-a-100-monk-free-U19-Build-(15Ranger-4Paladin-1Fighter)), specifically the drow variant (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430998-Noyellowbar-a-100-monk-free-U19-Build-(15Ranger-4Paladin-1Fighter)?p=5179287&viewfull=1#post5179287) I posted. U23 should make Noyellowbar even stronger: defensive stance is moving to lvl 3 Sacred D., which means a big boost to PRR & MRR; and Cleaves are being added to KotC PrE, giving you a little more flexibility with feats.

pappo
09-22-2014, 11:01 AM
Drow works fine for STR ranger. Elves are the only race which can get DEX to longbow dmg (Elven Grace), so they're the only viable pick for a DEX-based archer. [Why there isn't a DEX-to-ranged-dmg option in any of the rgr PREs is beyond me, but that's what happens when Turbine doesn't hire me as a consultant... ;)] If you need advice on picking feats, let me know, but converting the first build to drow is pretty straight-forward.

I will LR my Drow into a STR build. I would appreciate any help you can provide on starting Stats and feats. I have a Silver bow to help at low levels, and a toon with crafting levels in the 60's to help with gear. I have a lvl 4 frozen tunic but gear suggestions would also be appreciated.

unbongwah
09-22-2014, 11:37 AM
After U23 goes live, you will no longer need Great Cleave (or STR 23) for Overwhelming Crit. So for a pure drow rgr that's focused on archery, I'd probably do Point Blank Shot (1), Precision (3), Dodge (6), Improved Crit:Ranged (9), IC:Pierce (12), Emp Heal (15), Quicken (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), PTWF (26). You need base DEX 21 to take CA, so figure out what combo of tome(s) & build pts gets you there; plus enough CON not to die, ofc. Everything else goes into STR.

Enhancements: 41 APs into AA (Slaying Arrow, capstone); 21 APs into Tempest (100% offhand proc, +3% Dodge from Imp Dodge); 11 APs into DWS (Sniper Shot, +Pos Spellpower, some sneak atk bonuses); last 7 APs sprinkled as you see fit. Though naturally, feel free to experiment as you level; you may find you prefer, say, the ranged special atks in DWS over AA imbues and shift APs accordingly.

pappo
09-22-2014, 01:31 PM
After U23 goes live, you will no longer need Great Cleave (or STR 23) for Overwhelming Crit. So for a pure drow rgr that's focused on archery, I'd probably do Point Blank Shot (1), Precision (3), Dodge (6), Improved Crit:Ranged (9), IC:Pierce (12), Emp Heal (15), Quicken (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), PTWF (26). You need base DEX 21 to take CA, so figure out what combo of tome(s) & build pts gets you there; plus enough CON not to die, ofc. Everything else goes into STR.

Enhancements: 41 APs into AA (Slaying Arrow, capstone); 21 APs into Tempest (100% offhand proc, +3% Dodge from Imp Dodge); 11 APs into DWS (Sniper Shot, +Pos Spellpower, some sneak atk bonuses); last 7 APs sprinkled as you see fit. Though naturally, feel free to experiment as you level; you may find you prefer, say, the ranged special atks in DWS over AA imbues and shift APs accordingly.

unbongwah - thank you for all this. +1 for the builds you create and help you provide.
I have a rog/monk stick build that I just got to 20, and plan to TR into your Knight of the Holy Stick build because I have so many staffs in my TR cache I hate to lose them.

pappo
09-22-2014, 07:42 PM
After U23 goes live, you will no longer need Great Cleave (or STR 23) for Overwhelming Crit. So for a pure drow rgr that's focused on archery, I'd probably do Point Blank Shot (1), Precision (3), Dodge (6), Improved Crit:Ranged (9), IC:Pierce (12), Emp Heal (15), Quicken (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), PTWF (26). You need base DEX 21 to take CA, so figure out what combo of tome(s) & build pts gets you there; plus enough CON not to die, ofc. Everything else goes into STR.

Enhancements: 41 APs into AA (Slaying Arrow, capstone); 21 APs into Tempest (100% offhand proc, +3% Dodge from Imp Dodge); 11 APs into DWS (Sniper Shot, +Pos Spellpower, some sneak atk bonuses); last 7 APs sprinkled as you see fit. Though naturally, feel free to experiment as you level; you may find you prefer, say, the ranged special atks in DWS over AA imbues and shift APs accordingly.

Well, I screwed up my LR +1 somehow. I went in with 2 rogue 3 ranger and ended up with 3 rogue 2 ranger. I leveled up to 3 rogue / 3 ranger but really don't want the 3 rogue.
Can I use another LR +1 to make me a 2 rogue 4 ranger. I can't delete and start over or I will lose all my TR cache from my previous bard life, and all the named rapiers and shortswords in there.
Any suggestions on how to get to 2 rogue 4 ranger ?

Or is it so bad to have the 3 rogue and just end up as a 3 rogue 17 ranger ?

Grailhawk
09-23-2014, 09:07 AM
Well, I screwed up my LR +1 somehow. I went in with 2 rogue 3 ranger and ended up with 3 rogue 2 ranger. I leveled up to 3 rogue / 3 ranger but really don't want the 3 rogue.
Can I use another LR +1 to make me a 2 rogue 4 ranger. I can't delete and start over or I will lose all my TR cache from my previous bard life, and all the named rapiers and shortswords in there.
Any suggestions on how to get to 2 rogue 4 ranger ?

Or is it so bad to have the 3 rogue and just end up as a 3 rogue 17 ranger ?

Yes you can use a LR +1 to get ride of the extra rogue level.

Don't do 17/3 not a good split if you are under 18 Ranger don't go past 15 so 15/3/2 (fighter or monk) or 15/5 would be your options.

unbongwah
09-23-2014, 09:10 AM
I have a rog/monk stick build that I just got to 20, and plan to TR into your Knight of the Holy Stick build because I have so many staffs in my TR cache I hate to lose them.
With the forthcoming changes to pallies in U23, I may revise KotHS to have 15 lvls of pally for 2 lvl 4 spell slots. Holy Sword can replace Staff Spec, which opens different MCing options, e.g., pal 15 / rog 3 / ftr or monk 2. But that's a topic for another thread.

Or is it so bad to have the 3 rogue and just end up as a 3 rogue 17 ranger ?
Rog 3 / rgr 17 is not ideal, although for an HTR life it's not a big deal. [Shadow Dodge from Acrobat is a nice perk (+3% Dodge, +6 DEX, -30% Fortification), I'm just not convinced it's worth 13 APs on its own, since you need to take a lot of filler on a non-staff build to get it.] Rog 5 / rgr 15 is solid if you plan to use daggers (Knife Spec from Assassin); although if you wish to reuse your short swords & rapiers, that's not helpful. Or you could do something like rog 3 / rgr 15 / <splash> 2.

You should also post in Ellis's Tempest Trapmonkey thread; sure you'll get more advice there.

unbongwah
10-26-2015, 04:23 PM
I've updated the first post with a couple of options for AA & Tempest; and archived my original builds in the second post for comparison's sake. A DWS-specific build would look...well, mostly the same, since what I find appealing about DWS is it buffs melee & ranged DPS almost equally; but it's not as good if you want to specialize.

Doutrinador
10-27-2015, 08:34 AM
I need past life sorcerer for completionlist. Would be EH/EE viable one sorcerer / ranger build? Using spell power and spell critical for elemantel arrows? maybe one lvl of cleric for DM.

anyone?

Doutrinador
11-01-2015, 08:18 AM
[QUOTE=Doutrinador;5713400]I need past life sorcerer for completionlist. Would be EH/EE viable one sorcerer / ranger build? Using spell power and spell critical for elemantel arrows? maybe one lvl of cleric for DM.


anyone?

Enderoc
11-01-2015, 10:02 AM
To be honest an int and wisdom based arcane archer is probably your best bet if you have access to harper tree to increase both ranged and spell power...I would even splash 2 levels of Warlock for UMD and Spellcraft. I mean once you pick up that second level of warlock you got plus 5 UMD granted and it allows you to max both. Makes up for Charisma dump. Maybe 6 fighter, 2 warlock, 12 Ranger....and you are gold. You have the armor, access to tier 5 AA, maxed UMD, Heal, Spellcraft, enough skill points, and extra feats. Just make sure you have enough Dex for combat Archery. So minimum starting 14 with one level up and plus 6 tome.

Doutrinador
11-01-2015, 11:36 AM
To be honest an int and wisdom based arcane archer is probably your best bet if you have access to harper tree to increase both ranged and spell power...I would even splash 2 levels of Warlock for UMD and Spellcraft. I mean once you pick up that second level of warlock you got plus 5 UMD granted and it allows you to max both. Makes up for Charisma dump. Maybe 6 fighter, 2 warlock, 12 Ranger....and you are gold. You have the armor, access to tier 5 AA, maxed UMD, Heal, Spellcraft, enough skill points, and extra feats. Just make sure you have enough Dex for combat Archery. So minimum starting 14 with one level up and plus 6 tome.

Need the Sorcerer past life.

CrackedIce
11-01-2015, 11:41 AM
To be honest an int and wisdom based arcane archer is probably your best bet if you have access to harper tree to increase both ranged and spell power...I would even splash 2 levels of Warlock for UMD and Spellcraft. I mean once you pick up that second level of warlock you got plus 5 UMD granted and it allows you to max both. Makes up for Charisma dump. Maybe 6 fighter, 2 warlock, 12 Ranger....and you are gold. You have the armor, access to tier 5 AA, maxed UMD, Heal, Spellcraft, enough skill points, and extra feats. Just make sure you have enough Dex for combat Archery. So minimum starting 14 with one level up and plus 6 tome.

I agree in principle but not in practice. There is just not enough ap to go around for deepwood and AA if you splash and go into Harper. Are you assuming not going through racial? How if you are discussing level 12 ranger. I myself am 15 ranger 4 fighter and 1 wizard so I see the benefits of splashing in the way you say. But there just is not enough ap to go Harper. Why would you give up killer and advanced sneak attack in Deepwood for Harper? What is your ap breakdown for your suggestion?

adrian69
11-01-2015, 02:15 PM
I need past life sorcerer for completionlist. Would be EH/EE viable one sorcerer / ranger build? Using spell power and spell critical for elemantel arrows? maybe one lvl of cleric for DM.

anyone?

I am not sure that it would be, but I have a similar theorycraft with a wizard, but the pass made it obselete before it was ever done. I think there are better way to do a sorc probably. the problem with ranger is you need 12 levels and 21 points in dws and/or tempest. I did my sorc life as an abridged BF Tukaw. 14 sorc 4 paladin 2 x (can be monk, fighter, fvs, whatever). 16 str/16 con/ 17 charisma. Level ups in charisma and I spec'd acid and beat things in cloudkill. This isn't an EE solo build. I don't see a problem with trying 8-12 sorc/6 ranger/2-6x (rogue, fighter, monk or paladin probably). It'll just have to be really planned out.

unbongwah
11-01-2015, 04:29 PM
I need past life sorcerer for completionlist. Would be EH/EE viable one sorcerer / ranger build? Using spell power and spell critical for elemantel arrows? maybe one lvl of cleric for DM.
It's an interesting idea. I've kicked around AA / caster builds based on Shiradi: typical MM spam plus arrows to supplement; free SPs from Soul Magic + Moonbow to help make up for the heavy MC. I haven't thought too much about how to build it, though: maybe sorc 12 / rgr 6 / FvS 2? 14 APs racial, 41 APs racial AA, 4 APs Warpriest, 21 APs Savant?

To be honest an int and wisdom based arcane archer is probably your best bet if you have access to harper tree to increase both ranged and spell power...I would even splash 2 levels of Warlock for UMD and Spellcraft. I mean once you pick up that second level of warlock you got plus 5 UMD granted and it allows you to max both. Makes up for Charisma dump. Maybe 6 fighter, 2 warlock, 12 Ranger....and you are gold. You have the armor, access to tier 5 AA, maxed UMD, Heal, Spellcraft, enough skill points, and extra feats. Just make sure you have enough Dex for combat Archery. So minimum starting 14 with one level up and plus 6 tome.
The main problem is AP shortage. At this point, given the importance of Doubleshot now, I consider the AA capstone a must-have on a MCed AA build, which costs a minimum of 55 APs (14 racial + 41 AA). With 12 rgr lvls, there's also strong incentives to spend at least 21 APs DWS: extra PBS range, +4d6 SAs, +1 crit range, extra dmg from Favored Hunter and Thrill of the Hunt. At which point, there's only 4 APs left: not even enough to reach T2 Harper. You could ditch DWS entirely, but I'm not convinced that's an improvement; I'd probably just max Killer instead.

Doutrinador
11-02-2015, 02:34 PM
I am not sure that it would be, but I have a similar theorycraft with a wizard, but the pass made it obselete before it was ever done. I think there are better way to do a sorc probably. the problem with ranger is you need 12 levels and 21 points in dws and/or tempest. I did my sorc life as an abridged BF Tukaw. 14 sorc 4 paladin 2 x (can be monk, fighter, fvs, whatever). 16 str/16 con/ 17 charisma. Level ups in charisma and I spec'd acid and beat things in cloudkill. This isn't an EE solo build. I don't see a problem with trying 8-12 sorc/6 ranger/2-6x (rogue, fighter, monk or paladin probably). It'll just have to be really planned out.

Thx for reply.

RS-Makk
11-03-2015, 06:41 PM
The Shadow Tempest

Just when I had convinced myself to TR into a pure Human Dex based human (think the 'Divine Cuisinart' but Dex based).. you had to go post this and get me all undecided again. I'm struggling with the trading off of the extra DPS that I'd lost not having the human damage boost or KTA (that seems to me it would be a LOT of damage when it's all said and done).. and, while I know I can get displacement from shroud clickies.. there's just something sexy about going with the elf dragonmark.

Avaran
11-11-2015, 10:58 PM
Why quicken spell and empower healing? Anything better for a ranged Ranger?

Enderoc
11-11-2015, 11:08 PM
Maximize, Empower spell...
unlike empower healing works for both your cure spells and adds damage due to increased spellpower to your arrows right? http://ddowiki.com/page/Maximize_Spell

You may also now apply this individually to any spell or spell-like ability it applies to by rightclick the spell and enabling it through the dropdown menu.

If Maximize works with Cleric Positive Auras (a non listed spell), it should work with imbues to catch up with warlocks in my opinion.

unbongwah
11-12-2015, 08:30 AM
Why quicken spell and empower healing? Anything better for a ranged Ranger?
Empower Healing works with ED healing abilities like Rejuv Cocoon, Light the Dark, and Renewal; Max & Emp do not. Quicken is so you don't need to make a Concentration check when using CSW; EE mobs in particular hit so hard they render Concentration largely useless.

You could take Weapon Focus Ranged + Thrown for +4 Ranged Power; or rearrange feat order to take Dodge / Mobility / Shot on the Run for extra Dodge % and +3 Ranged Power.

If Maximize works with Cleric Positive Auras (a non listed spell), it should work with imbues to catch up with warlocks in my opinion.
Max & Emp work with Pos Energy Burst, but not with PE Aura; only Emp Heal boosts PEA. I've no idea why you would think metamagics should boost imbues; after all, they don't affect Eldritch Blasts or Spiritual Retribution, which are only boosted by Spellpower the way imbues do.

Avaran
11-19-2015, 09:57 AM
Bump. Can moderator sticky this?

Apollos713
11-19-2015, 01:13 PM
Any particular reason for choosing corrosive arrows over another type, like shocking? I'm not up to date on game-wide mob immunities.

unbongwah
11-19-2015, 05:47 PM
Any particular reason for choosing corrosive arrows over another type, like shocking?
Not really: it all depends on what content you run (i.e., mob immunities), your gear (i.e., what you use for Spellpower), and (if you take Imp Elem Arrows) which debuff effect you want.

Apollos713
11-19-2015, 05:49 PM
Not really: it all depends on what content you run (i.e., mob immunities), your gear (i.e., what you use for Spellpower), and (if you take Imp Elem Arrows) which debuff effect you want.

Thanks for the answer. I was wondering if you looked at how these synergize with the new legendary feats, if one was preferable. Or is that the kind of thing that it doesn't matter too much since resetting enhancements is so cheap?

unbongwah
11-20-2015, 09:41 AM
I haven't been paying attention to U29 yet, so I have no opinion on the new feats. Besides, it's early days; there will doubtless be a lot of changes between now and go-live, so I don't see much point in worrying about it yet.

pappo
11-23-2015, 06:04 PM
After U23 goes live, you will no longer need Great Cleave (or STR 23) for Overwhelming Crit. So for a pure drow rgr that's focused on archery, I'd probably do Point Blank Shot (1), Precision (3), Dodge (6), Improved Crit:Ranged (9), IC:Pierce (12), Emp Heal (15), Quicken (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), PTWF (26). You need base DEX 21 to take CA, so figure out what combo of tome(s) & build pts gets you there; plus enough CON not to die, ofc. Everything else goes into STR.

Enhancements: 41 APs into AA (Slaying Arrow, capstone); 21 APs into Tempest (100% offhand proc, +3% Dodge from Imp Dodge); 11 APs into DWS (Sniper Shot, +Pos Spellpower, some sneak atk bonuses); last 7 APs sprinkled as you see fit. Though naturally, feel free to experiment as you level; you may find you prefer, say, the ranged special atks in DWS over AA imbues and shift APs accordingly.

Unbongwah - Thanks for this information. I followed that feat and enhancement list and leveled to 20. It was a lot of fun. Instead of going into Epics, I decided to try another Drow Elf build for my second life. I wanted to try Ranger/Rogue for some trapping skills, and optional xbow use.
My question is what you would recommend for enhancements for a ranger/rogue build who is not going Tempest. I am trying AA, DWS, and Elf tree and wondered what you would do. I am a 16Ranger/3Rogue now, but just don't seem to be getting much DPS out of the bows. The only named bows, I have so far, are the Elite Roadwatch Bow, Bow of Sinew, and a Elite Tortured Livewood bow.
Right now I have 37 pts in AA, and 32 in DWS, and 4 in Elf.
Feats now, I have IPS, IC Ranged and Piercing, TWF, and ITWF. I 'm thinking I messed up taking too much TWF feats, since I am only doing ranged DPS.
Any help would be appreciated.

unbongwah
11-24-2015, 09:02 AM
I am a 16Ranger/3Rogue now, but just don't seem to be getting much DPS out of the bows.
This thread is meant for pure rgrs; I suggest ED37's TT thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players) for MCed advice.

Marshal_Lannes
11-26-2015, 10:45 AM
You have listed some ideas for the classic archer AA/DS and a Tempest with some archery T/DS, what is your idea for an archery first Tempest 2nd elven ranger? I am envisioning T5 DWS 36-40 pts, elf (w/DMs) 12+ APs, a few in AA for arrows at least and an elemental imbue and how much in Tempest? Attack method ranged first then melee on crippled, pinned enemies if need be. This build would be too squishy to stand in toe to toe with full strength mobs on tough quest content. Oh and would the classic long sword even be worth considering?

pappo
11-26-2015, 11:15 AM
This thread is meant for pure rgrs; I suggest ED37's TT thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players) for MCed advice.

Unbongwah - Thanks for the link, but I don't want to do any Tempest TWF. I wanted to play as a pure ranged archer, with some rogue for traps and maybe sneak attack bonuses.

unbongwah
11-26-2015, 03:18 PM
You have listed some ideas for the classic archer AA/DS and a Tempest with some archery T/DS, what is your idea for an archery first Tempest 2nd elven ranger? I am envisioning T5 DWS 36-40 pts, elf (w/DMs) 12+ APs, a few in AA for arrows at least and an elemental imbue and how much in Tempest?
That's mostly an Enhancement respec: e.g., 42 APs DWS (all T5s + capstone), 12 APs elf (Gtr Shadow DM), 26 APs Tempest (Deflect Arrows + Growing Storm + Storm Tempest) for something melee focused. The problem IMHO is AA feels like a very backloaded PrE to me: you have to invest significantly into Elemental Dmg to improve imbues; and it costs 31 APs to pick up Shadow Arrows (+1 crit multiplier and +5% Doubleshot). And since they didn't add Ranged Alacrity (yet) to AA, it feels like you need to invest in as much dmg per hit as you can if you want to be a "real" archer. If you're also spending 41-42 APs into DWS for capstone & T5s, that doesn't leave much left over for elf or Tempest, unfortunately.

Oh and would the classic long sword even be worth considering?
Not IMHO, unless you're planning to use Fellblades (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Fellblade_%28longsword%29). Bear in mind that if you go DEX-based, your only option for DEX to longsword dmg is Aerenal Grace, which costs at least 18 APs; and you have no option for DEX to-hit on this build.

I wanted to play as a pure ranged archer, with some rogue for traps and maybe sneak attack bonuses.
In your case, I don't have any specific advice to offer. Rgr 16 / rog 3 locks you out of lvl 18 core enhancements; and drow has no access to elf racial AA PrE.

kendo
11-28-2015, 04:31 AM
as going with the 41/39 split for enhancements doesn't leave any room for racial enhancements, do you see human as a good alternative to elf? you won't get quite as high of a DEX score but the extra feat would let you add in mobility or drop dodge and get to cleave for a little more melee damage. the extra skill points would let you either drop INT down just a little and keep the same skill progression or allow you to flesh out another skill or two.

my first inclination was to go elf, though mainly for future flexibility. if you were to decide to go a little more melee focused and that freed up some enhancement points that could go to racial, I have always liked the DM line for elfs.

Marshal_Lannes
11-28-2015, 12:30 PM
Personally I don't see the point of any 41/39 AP build unless you are just min/maxing. If one is going to play a boring split like that one might as well just play a FB capstone/t5 ravager Barbarian who is going to be stronger than any ranger anyway. I don't think you can go 41/39 and say "i'm elf rangering!" because you really aren't. To be an Elf ranger you actually need to have Elven abilities.

unbongwah
11-28-2015, 12:50 PM
as going with the 41/39 split for enhancements doesn't leave any room for racial enhancements, do you see human as a good alternative to elf?
If you want a human rgr, see the Cuisinart thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/465697-The-Divine-Cuisinart-A-dual-khopesh-wielding-pure-tempest-ranger-in-divine-crusader).

Marshal_Lannes
11-28-2015, 01:23 PM
Well, playing around with the trees, this is the best AP splits I could come up with for a 20 Ranger Elf.

Elf Tree 23 APs

Elven Accuracy II
Elven Dexterity II
Ph DM III
Aerenal Wpn Training IV
Lesser and Greater DM of shadow
Aerenal Grace
Skill

Skill has huge benefits, it's worth 5 or 6 APs for the cost of 1. This allows the use of longswords with Dex to Dmg also thru Aerenal Grace. While it doesn't offer a to hit option, it will be easy enough to get into the 30s with STR and add an accuracy item plus the bonus to hit from Elf and Aerenal wpn training hitting shouldn't be a problem.

DWS - 41 pts

All DWS Cores (PBS range now +38 meters with DWS and Elven cores)

5 APs between Stealthy, Tendon Cut and Increased Empathy. Not sure if the extra pos healing power, the extra SA die or a +W melee click is best here.
Survivalist III
Power Boost III
Aimed Shot
Dex II
Killer III
Leg Shot
Merciful Shot
Strikes like Lightning
Head Shot
Im Archer Focus
Heavy Draw

AA 6 pts

AA and Morphic Arrows cores
Conjure Arrows
Flaming Arrow

Tempest 10 pts

Whirling Steel and Tempest cores
Imp Reaction III
Im Defense I
Haste Boost III
Imp Dodge I

I would like to get over 20 pts in Tempest but there is just no way. I consider conjure arrows a must and if I am in the AA tree I might as well get morphic arrows for DR purposes and one elemental imbue.

unbongwah
11-28-2015, 01:59 PM
All DWS Cores (PBS range now +38 meters with DWS and Elven cores)
Horizon Shot: "You are always considered to be in Point Blank Shot and Ranged Sneak Attack range." This renders Elven Accuracy's PBS range increase superfluous.

If you want to go that route, consider 41 APs DWS (capstone), 21 APs Tempest (+1 crit multiplier), 12 APs elf (Gtr Shadow DM), 6 APs AA (Morphic). I'm pretty sure the extra pts in Tempest does more for your melee DPS than the extra pts in elf tree. I don't really see the point of getting DEX to dmg with longswords, since you already get it free to scimitars from Tempest; while Imp Weap Finesse provides DEX to longbows so you don't need Grace anymore. Likewise, +3% Dodge / Doublestrike / Doubleshot from Skill are nice, I'm just not convinced they're worth ditching pts in Tempest or AA to get. Particularly if you're running in LD w/Morphic Arrows + Pulverizer for +1 crit range to bows. EDIT: and I already feel bad about not having at least Growing Storm...

The good news is I don't really think there's a "bad" way to build a pure rgr these days; it's all about your personal priorities in terms of melee, ranged, and survivability.

Marshal_Lannes
11-28-2015, 02:51 PM
Horizon Shot: "You are always considered to be in Point Blank Shot and Ranged Sneak Attack range." This renders Elven Accuracy's PBS range increase superfluous.

If you want to go that route, consider 41 APs DWS (capstone), 21 APs Tempest (+1 crit multiplier), 12 APs elf (Gtr Shadow DM), 6 APs AA (Morphic). I'm pretty sure the extra pts in Tempest does more for your melee DPS than the extra pts in elf tree. I don't really see the point of getting DEX to dmg with longswords, since you already get it free to scimitars from Tempest; while Imp Weap Finesse provides DEX to longbows so you don't need Grace anymore. Likewise, +3% Dodge / Doublestrike / Doubleshot from Skill are nice, I'm just not convinced they're worth ditching pts in Tempest or AA to get. Particularly if you're running in LD w/Morphic Arrows + Pulverizer for +1 crit range to bows. EDIT: and I already feel bad about not having at least Growing Storm...

The good news is I don't really think there's a "bad" way to build a pure rgr these days; it's all about your personal priorities in terms of melee, ranged, and survivability.

Ah yes, good point on Horizon shot. Based on this I would drop a Dex and Elven Accuracy taking 20 APs in Elf and going 13 in Tempest. Or I could take those 3 pts and put them in Inferno Shot III. This looks like a good fit with manyshot?

From the looks of it most of the Tempest DPS increases comes in t4 and t5. Basically it is Deflect Arrows and +1 Crit multiplier, taking scimitars in this case to x3, storm dancer and bleed them out vs 3% dodge/DS/DS, and +4 to hit/dmg. As you say, some interesting choices and lots of ways to build a ranger now. Good options.

kendo
11-29-2015, 04:27 PM
If you want a human rgr, see the Cuisinart thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/465697-The-Divine-Cuisinart-A-dual-khopesh-wielding-pure-tempest-ranger-in-divine-crusader).

why would I want to look at the cuisinart build? that dips heavy into tempest and I am looking at a pure ranged ranger, most likely with a 41/39 AA/DWS split. with nothing left over for racial enhancements, what's the benefit of elf over human? they can start with a higher dex score but human would have the extra feat and skill points.

is the extra point or two in DEX worth that much that elf is the only logical choice for a pure 20 ranged focused build?

Marshal_Lannes
11-29-2015, 04:38 PM
So I looked thru all the named light armors in the game. None of them really jump out as THE best to have. The green dragonscale looks awesome but as armor it is kinda is blah and seems really hard to get. I guess the Thunderholm shadow armor? All the good effects seem to be on medium or heavy armor, the 2d6 SA is decent and seems the way to go for lack of better options unless I am missing something. I would probably want to glammer the armor though because the shadow armor doesn't feel very elf rangerish.

unbongwah
11-30-2015, 09:31 AM
with nothing left over for racial enhancements, what's the benefit of elf over human?
If you've already decided on a 41/39 AP split, then it boils down to the inherent racial bonuses: i.e., +2 DEX vs extra feat & skill pts. Sounds like you've already decided human is better. EDIT: although another possibility is 42 APs DWS (T5s + capstone), 31 APs AA (Shadow Arrows), 3 APs human (Dmg Boost + heal amp), with 4 APs left over to tweak things.

So I looked thru all the named light armors in the game. None of them really jump out as THE best to have. The green dragonscale looks awesome but as armor it is kinda is blah and seems really hard to get.
In terms of DPS, my preferred progression would be:

giantcraft leather (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Giantcraft_Leather_Armor)
black dragonhide (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Black_Dragonhide_Armor) or Assassin Initiate's (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Assassin_Initiate%27s_Leathers_%28Level_15%29 )
Hide of the Goristro (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Hide_of_the_Goristro) w/Tendon Slice 10% or Restored Giantcraft (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Restored_Giantcraft_Leather_Armor)
flawless black dragonhide (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flawless_Black_Dragonhide_Armor) w/EE black dragon helm or ToEE lt armor w/ToEE weapon for set bonus


As you've noticed, Shadow Killer is not a great DPS option; if you use shadow dragonhide, it would be for the survivability benefits, not the DPS boost.

For a Tempest, my guess is ToEE lt armor + ToEE fire weapon + T3 TF weapon w/Dragon's Edge is the best overall endgame option, since that gets you both +20 Melee Power ToEE set bonus and 35% Armor Piercing. at least until eVale comes along and we all redo our gear sets again. :p

I don't know what's the best option for an archer, since you can't have both ToEE and TF weapons equipped, obviously.

unbongwah
11-30-2015, 10:17 AM
Crunching some Doubleshot numbers using the 41 AA / 39 DWS split:

Doubleshot
20% Strikes Like Lightning (T5 DWS)
20% Master of Imbument (AA capstone)
10% Doubleshot ED feat
+5% Shadow Arrows imbue
+9% Doubleshot EPL x3
+8% enhancement (eQuiver of Alacrity (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Quiver_of_Alacrity) or eDynamistic Quiver (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Dynamistic_Quiver))
+2% ship buff (Seasoned Archer)
74% Doubleshot (passive)
20% max Killer
94% Doubleshot (buffed)

Manyshot adds 120% Doubleshot, so that's 214% Doubleshot. If you group with a WC w/Reckless Chant, it becomes 220%. [I still say Turbine should replace AA Attack Boost with Doubleshot Boost; that would goose it to 250% DS.]

kendo
11-30-2015, 02:44 PM
If you've already decided on a 41/39 AP split, then it boils down to the inherent racial bonuses: i.e., +2 DEX vs extra feat & skill pts. Sounds like you've already decided human is better. EDIT: although another possibility is 42 APs DWS (T5s + capstone), 31 APs AA (Shadow Arrows), 3 APs human (Dmg Boost + heal amp), with 4 APs left over to tweak things.


actually, being a long time DnD player, I was leaning towards elf. as Tevye would say -- Tradition ! :) the only race I saw being even close was human, as you have mentioned several times how tight feats and enhancements are with a pure ranger build looking to maximize ranged damage, was curious how the extra feat and skills would match up against a bit more dex.

thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions, it is very helpful

Grailhawk
11-30-2015, 04:40 PM
Crunching some Doubleshot numbers using the 41 AA / 39 DWS split:

Doubleshot
20% Strikes Like Lightning (T5 DWS)
20% Master of Imbument (AA capstone)
10% Doubleshot ED feat
+5% Shadow Arrows imbue
+9% Doubleshot EPL x3
+8% enhancement (eQuiver of Alacrity (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Quiver_of_Alacrity) or eDynamistic Quiver (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Dynamistic_Quiver))
+2% ship buff (Seasoned Archer)
74% Doubleshot (passive)
20% max Killer
94% Doubleshot (buffed)

Manyshot adds 120% Doubleshot, so that's 214% Doubleshot. If you group with a WC w/Reckless Chant, it becomes 220%. [I still say Turbine should replace AA Attack Boost with Doubleshot Boost; that would goose it to 250% DS.]

Divine Crusader has some interesting options for Doubleshot.

Celestial Champion ins +10% double shot instead of +8% from gear and Zeal of the Righteous is +~50% every other manyshot.

Not saying its better then Fury, or Dreadnought but just point out its got a lot of doubleshot not found in other Destinies.

ForwardWu
12-02-2015, 01:06 PM
Even on a pure archer, I found that spending all 41 AP in AA true to get AA capstone seems a bit overkill. When you get most of the doubleshot bonus (~50-70%), I think the benefits from DWS capstone outdone the extra 20% doubleshot. Not aiming at AA capstone also gives the benefit of freeing quite a lot of AP to play around.

unbongwah
12-02-2015, 01:28 PM
My goal would be to hit at least 200% Doubleshot during Manyshot: a guaranteed 3 arrows per shot is a big deal, IMO, particularly when combined with special atks like Slayer Arrow or Sniper Shot. Since MS provides +120% DS, that means you want at least 80% DS from other sources. Unfortunately, I think the only way to do that without both the AA capstone and Strikes like Lightning is to group with a bard who has Reckless Chant (EDIT: or run in DC and use Zeal of the Righteous).

20% Strikes like Lightning OR Master of Imbument
10% Doubleshot ED feat
+5% Shadow Arrows imbue
+9% Doubleshot EPL x3
+8% enhancement (eQuiver of Alacrity (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Quiver_of_Alacrity) or eDynamistic Quiver (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Dynamistic_Quiver))
+6% Reckless Chant
+2% ship buff (Seasoned Archer)
60% Doubleshot (passive)
20% Killer (max stacks)
80% Doubleshot (buffed)

Again, this would be a lot easier if Turbine would just follow my advice and add Doubleshot action boost to AA. :p EDIT: the Doubleshot bonuses are what makes Div Crusader more appealing for an AA than it used to be, IMHO, particularly if you don't have those EPLs or the right quiver.

Hasacz
12-24-2015, 02:55 PM
Hey, what feats would u add to this build lvl 29 and 30? I guess Scion of the Feywild is obvious legendary feat choice but what about lvl 29 epic feat?

unbongwah
12-24-2015, 04:56 PM
Legendary feats: Scion of Arborea is the obvious choice for the +20 Melee/Ranged Power. Although if you focus on DWS SAs and max out Hide, it sounds like Ethereal Plane is a reasonable alternative; perma-Blur and Invis Guard are nice survivability perks. Feywild's Sonic + Enchant bonuses make it feel like it's aimed at bards. Limbo if you think predictability is for cowards. :cool:

As for lvl 29 feats: Deific Warding or Wind thru the Trees if you want to boost your defenses; Dire Charge for the AoE stun (followed by Dance of Death) if you think you can get your DCs high enough (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469396-Is-Dire-Charge-OP); Chaos or Order for the extra DPS; Dreamscape if you're RPing Chaotic Neutral. ;)

The final lvl 30 feat can be whatever you like to fill in any gaps.

RS-Makk
12-24-2015, 05:11 PM
Dire Charge for the AoE stun (followed by Dance of Death) if you think you can get your DCs high enough (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469396-Is-Dire-Charge-OP);

from reading through that thread.. (sorting out the drama).. looks like a mid (maybe even low?) 90's DC is what's needed?

unbongwah
12-27-2015, 01:08 PM
Ever since the U28.2 revamp of Manyshot, there's been a lot of drama over the changes and whether it's a nerf or a buff. Not that I expect this to change people's minds, but I'll show how it's a nerf and a buff...depending on what level you are. :eek:

This table is a simplified view of the DPS bonus from Manyshot pre- and post-U28. The Doubleshot column lists both the +120% DS from MS as well as rgr-based DS bonuses you can have at that level, using the 41 AA / 39 DWS AP configuration:

Level 6: max Killer (+20% DS)
Level 12: Strikes like Lightning (+20% DS)
Level 18: Shadow Arrows (+5% DS)
Level 20: AA capstone (+20% DS)
Level 28: Doubleshot ED feat (+10% DS)







Post-U28
Pre-U28



BAB
Doubleshot
Ranged Power
DPS bonus
Manyshot DPS
Variance


6
140%
24
174%
100%
73.6%


7
140%
28
179%
100%
79.2%


8
140%
32
185%
100%
84.8%


9
140%
36
190%
100%
90.4%


10
140%
40
196%
100%
96.0%


11

140%
44
202%
200%
1.6%


12
160%
48
237%
200%
36.8%


13
160%
52
243%
200%
43.2%


14
160%
56
250%
200%
49.6%


15
160%
60
256%
200%
56.0%


16
160%
64
262%
300%
-37.6%



17
160%
68
269%
300%
-31.2%


18
165%
72
284%
300%
-16.2%


19
165%
76
290%
300%
-9.6%


20
185%
80
333%
300%
33.0%


21
185%
84
340%
300%
40.4%


22
185%
88
348%
300%
47.8%


23
185%
92
355%
300%
55.2%


24
185%
96
363%
300%
62.6%


25
185%
100
370%
300%
70.0%


26
185%
104
377%
300%
77.4%


27
185%
108
385%
300%
84.8%


28
195%
112
413%
300%
113.4%


29
195%
116
421%
300%
121.2%


30
195%
120
429%
300%
129.0%



So you can see that new Manyshot is actually more powerful than old Manyshot except in the BAB 16-19 range; that's when the extra arrow from old MS was most useful, before you have the extra Doubleshot bonuses in epic levels to make up the difference.

Again, this is a simple example, which doesn't factor in your baseline Ranged Power; that would make the epic calcs more complicated. I'm also not counting the extra Doubleshot from Primal EPLs (+9% max), gear (+8% max), ship buff (+2%), or Reckless Chant (+6%).

Now, I think the aspect of new MS which most annoys people - and I admit this vexes me a bit too - is that you don't the guaranteed arrows you do with old MS. After all, there's no such thing as "2.7 arrows;" you either fire 2 or you fire 3. Probabilities are all well & good, but when you've only got a 20-second buff, you want to get as much mileage out of it as you can. Which, again, is why I stressed the importance of hitting a base Doubleshot of at least 80%, so your MS DS bonus is 200%+, guaranteeing at least 2 extra arrows per shot.

unbongwah
03-01-2016, 09:50 AM
I've updated my Shadow Tempest build. I'll also try to update my AA build...umm...eventually. :p But in the interim, feel free to check out CThru's (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469680-White-Feather-Sniper-A-DPS-and-CC-focused-full-time-ranged-pure-ranger) and Strimtom's (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly) builds. Purely ranged rgrs have become very strong; they've also become pretty cookie-cutter, since you want to spend most of your APs on AA+DWS and it's just a question of which T5+cap to take.

unbongwah
12-27-2017, 01:58 PM
Finally updated the archer build in my OP with some advice about possible epic / endgame configurations. It's a holiday miracle! :cool:

pappo
12-27-2017, 05:10 PM
What Ranger tactics work on Reapers ? Are they susceptible to Paralyzing or Terror arrows ?

unbongwah
12-27-2017, 08:03 PM
Beats me! You'll have to ask someone who actually play Reapers.

KaladorUK
12-31-2017, 10:45 AM
What Ranger tactics work on Reapers ? Are they susceptible to Paralyzing or Terror arrows ?

They can definitely be paralyzed.

pappo
01-01-2018, 08:52 AM
They can definitely be paralyzed.

Do you know how high the paralyzing DC needs to be to paralyze a reaper ?

KaladorUK
01-02-2018, 12:18 AM
Do you know how high the paralyzing DC needs to be to paralyze a reaper ?

Do I know exact numbers? No. What I do know is that my girlfriend's character has somewhere around a 68 or 70 DC and paralyzes reapers in r1 more often than not (it's not her main so we never finished getting the gear).

Here's a post I made a few months ago when I was just starting to get her gear together that has some numbers information: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469680-White-Feather-Sniper-A-DPS-and-CC-focused-full-time-ranged-pure-ranger?p=6004813&viewfull=1#post6004813.

Kriogen
01-02-2018, 03:40 AM
Do you know how high the paralyzing DC needs to be to paralyze a reaper ?
Will save vs Enchantment. Around 80 enchant DC is no fail (mob doesnt roll 20) vs more or less anything that is not immune.

It does depend on diff. level. I do know that 80-something DC will work in low reaper mode.

Arlathen
02-18-2018, 04:17 AM
Would love to see a proper 'Hybrid' Ranger using Melee & Ranged fluidly, based around the DWS Capstone. Any chance? :)

unbongwah
02-18-2018, 10:15 AM
Would love to see a proper 'Hybrid' Ranger using Melee & Ranged fluidly, based around the DWS Capstone. Any chance? :)
There's not enough APs to take all three crit bonuses from the cores plus a capstone (31 AA + 21 DWS + 21 Tempest = 73 APs). So any hybrid will have to sacrifice something important, depending on whether ranged or melee DPS is more important to you. E.g., 42 DWS / 31 Tempest / 7 AA if focused on melee; or 31 AA / 7 Tempest if focused on archery.

Fortunately, with the right mix of feats, it's just a matter of Enhancement respec to switch focus.

abull74
05-31-2018, 09:55 PM
What weapons are you using that are finesse-able and slashing for the tempest TWF?

unbongwah
06-01-2018, 09:29 AM
What weapons are you using that are finesse-able and slashing for the tempest TWF?
When it comes to lootgen or crafted weapons, scimitars are your best choice (all else being equal) for DEX Tempest, although you can use any light melee weapon (http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Basic_weapons_by_handedness#Light_Weapons ) you want. When it comes to named weapons, that gets more complicated: there are some which natively support DEX to-hit and/or damage (http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_weapons_with_unusual_attack_or_damage_mods ); and others with improved critical threat ranges - this list (http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_Swashbuckler_weapons_with_improved_crit_pr ofile) is geared towards Swashbucklers, but many of the weapons on it are also good for Tempests.

Elindel22
06-03-2018, 10:24 AM
Getting 65 DC on paralyze arrows is nearly impossible without the best gear and without gimping yourself.

Reaching 60 wisdom is quite impossible for me.

I just quest solo, with hirelings.

And paralyzingly arrows seriously kills my dps.

Can't you reach the same CC benefits using leg shot, head shot, pin and ottos whistler, with IPS ?