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Failedlegend
07-09-2014, 07:01 PM
So I've been working on a Swashbuckler for my Wiz-Tank to TR into I was originally going to work in some Sorc levels for EK and some bonus haggle but it really wasn't worth the 3 Levels and the points were better spent in SB & WC or SS (not to mention it royally messed up the skills) so I switched to a Bard/Fighter/Rogue and switched to Drow since this builds need good dex int and cha...figured it would work pretty good especially since I likely won't be spending many points in the racial tree.

Anyways I'll start with my goals and what-not to assist in any feedback given (thank you in advance)

Goals:

- Try out the swashbuckler prestige (already tested on Lama just want to see how it functions at all levels)
- Make a bard (I've always loved bards in PnP and the upcoming changes see very promising)
- Maximize haggle since I'm always broke
- Use those really awesome looking orbs or have an empty off-hand
- Be a decent spellcaster by going Cha "Different Tack"


Drow Bard16/Fighter2/Rogue2 (Primary: Swashbuckler, Secondary: Warchanter or Spellsinger)

Dex 16
Con 10
Int 18
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

Level Order: Rogue1, Bard 2-8, Rogue 9, Fighter 10-11,Bard 12-20
Skills: Balance, Haggle, UMD, Perform, DD, Search, Spot (OL on Rogue Levels)

1 SWF
3 Extend
6 Weapon Finesse
9 Precision
10F IWSF
11F IC: Piercing
12 Maximize
15 GSWF
18 Quicken
ED Divine Crusader or Draconic Incarnation
21 Inspire Excellence
24 PL:Wiz
26 Perfect SWF (assuming the wiki is correct this is pretty cool)
27 Epic Reflexes
28 Lasting Inspiration

Munkenmo
07-09-2014, 07:30 PM
Your build seems like it'd be much better as a PDK. You're to hit looks like it's going to be fairly weak.

Cha will be slightly reduced, but you'll be able to use cha for to hit and damage.

Failedlegend
07-09-2014, 08:07 PM
Your build seems like it'd be much better as a PDK. You're to hit looks like it's going to be fairly weak.

Cha will be slightly reduced, but you'll be able to use cha for to hit and damage.

Uh...clearly I'm missing something because I don't see how PDK changes that?

gwonbush
07-09-2014, 08:33 PM
I've never had problems hitting on my pure swash without Cha to hit. Not to mention, the enhancement that gives cha to hit is significantly more limited in weapons it can effect than Different Tack.

I'd question your starting int being so high. With 8 skills that you care about, you only need 14 Int to get enough points to max them all out, even without tomes. Dropping the Int to 14 allows you to push Cha to 20 and Con to 12.

Failedlegend
07-09-2014, 08:53 PM
Weapon Finesse+High Dex = Good to-hit

I'm going to try this build on Lama but anything less than 18 Int can't keep those skills up...unless I'm missing something, can you detail your skill taking? (I'd much rather have 20 Cha :D)

Munkenmo
07-09-2014, 09:04 PM
Uh...clearly I'm missing something because I don't see how PDK changes that?

Yep.

Cormyrean Knight Training: You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords.In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength and you are wielding one of the above weapons, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier.

It'd allow you to give up weapon finesse, instead picking up insightful reflexes, so you'd have one stat that boosts your spell power and your reflex saves.

Failedlegend
07-09-2014, 09:33 PM
Yep.

Cormyrean Knight Training: You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords.In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength and you are wielding one of the above weapons, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier.

It'd allow you to give up weapon finesse, instead picking up insightful reflexes, so you'd have one stat that boosts your spell power and your reflex saves.

I know PDK grants cha to-hit but this is a Dex/Cha based build, Int serves little purpose beyond Skills points and boosting Search/DD also I would be forced to use Shortswords instead of both Shortswords AND Rapiers (not to mention PDKs starting stats would be less optimal)

Rull
07-10-2014, 12:18 PM
10 Con? you can't be serious

I'd look at something like
8 Str
10 Dex
15 Con
11 Int
8 Wis
20 Cha

or maybe

8 Str
11 Dex
14 Con
13 Int
8 Wis
20 Cha

Either of them being actually worse, if you just look at stats, than a human with:

8 Str
10 Dex, or 13 Dex
17 Con, or 16 Con
11 Int (effectively 13 because human)
8 Wis
18 Cha

Even without the free feat
Even without the healing amp

Just statwise drow is already outclassed (the only thing it has going for it is the ability to go 20 cha, and then you don't)

With 13 starting INT, or preferably 11 and human:


Perform UMD Search Disable Balance Heal Jump Open Spot ConcentrTumble @INT
1rogue 0 4 4 4 4 2 4 4 4 1 2 @13
2bard 5 4 4 4 5 2 5 4 4 1 2 @13
3fighter 5 4 5 4 5 2 6 4 4 1 2 @13
4fighter 5 4 7 4 5 2 6 4 4 1 2 @14
5bard 7 4 7 5 5 3 8 4 4 1 2 @14
6bard 9 4 9 6 5 3 8 4 4 1 2 @14
7bard 10 4 9 8 5 4 9 4 4 1 2 @15
8bard 10 10 9 8 5 4 11 4 4 1 2 @15
9bard 12 12 9 8 5 6 11 4 4 1 2 @15
10bard 13 13 9 8 9 6 13 4 4 1 2 @15
11rogue 13 13 14 14 9 6 13 4 4 1 2 @16
12bard 15 15 15 15 8 7 13 4 4 1 2 @16
13bard 16 16 16 16 9 8 13 4 4 1 2 @16
14bard 17 17 17 17 12 8 13 4 4 1 2 @16
15bard 17 17 18 18 15 9 13 4 4 1 2 @16
16bard 19 19 19 19 16 9 13 4 4 1 2 @16
17bard 20 20 20 20 17 10 13 4 4 1 2 @16
18bard 21 20 21 21 21 10 13 4 4 1 2 @16
19bard 22 22 22 22 21 11 13 4 4 1 2 @16
20bard 23 23 23 23 22 11 13 5 4 1 2 @16


p.s.
I'd drop finesse faster than you can say fred. You are cha based, not dex.
You dex won't be more than 8 points ahead of your STR even if you gimp yourself. +4 attack is NOT close to being worth a feat. You will still wear a +8 strength item if only for carrying capacity and it being free on mitts and plenty other gear. You won't have the gearslots to surpass that by much.

Failedlegend
07-10-2014, 02:52 PM
Thanks Rull once again it has been proven that Drow are a useless waste of coding and the devs should NEVER make another 28pt Race.

I do disagree with your thoughts on Con & Dex though Con 10 is low but really I would NEVER start with more than 14 unless I was a TYWA Dwarf or just a Str/Con based character (ie. a Barb) Dex on the other hand I wouldn't want to have less than 16 on a swashbuckler which relies alot on being missed so wants as much Dex as possible to crank that AC up, not to mention all the skills that rely on Dex.

As for your skill setup all the trapskills fall horribly behind until mid-levels making them practically useless no? also no Spot.

Currently I'm thinking:

Human

Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Cha 18

Rull
07-10-2014, 06:13 PM
let's put it in numers.

when you look at endgame, 1 ac and 1 reflex don't really weigh up against 28 hp (and 1 fort).

2 ac and 2 reflex don't even weigh up to 28 hp (and 1 fort). a least not on a 700 hp melee bard.

with 3 vs 1 it's close.

but at least twke this from me: 1 ac and 1 reflex DEFINITELY don't weigh up against 56 HP and 2 fort.
using 2 points to up your dex from 15 to 16 instead of you con from 12 to 14 would be an enormous mistake.

+1 to some skills is not even a factor.

Rull
07-10-2014, 06:34 PM
+5 tools, and you can craft a +13 item for what is it, level 7 now? all traps on low level are cake, even without gh and human skill boost. That really isn't a problem.
Putting in full ranks on your rogue level is so much better in the long run than wasting points by crossclassing them away, just to have a lazier level 7-10. your trap skills lag 4 behind at the worst, with just somewhat level appropriate search/disable gear you will success on a 1 (which is overkill already) without even having to boost.

spot can be nice. I think if you start at 12 instead of 11 you could get it up to 20 already.

But do whatever you want. just giving advice, i can get a bit passionate in that :-)

Nimdeadlee
07-10-2014, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=Failedlegend;5376847

Currently I'm thinking:

Human

Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Cha 18[/QUOTE]

If that's the stat distribution you want then it's cheaper going Drow because of the bonuses to Dex, Int & Cha. For example you can go

Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Cha 20

or

Dex 16
Con 14
Int 16
Cha 18

with 32 points as a Drow.

Nordenfeldt
07-14-2014, 07:40 AM
If that's the stat distribution you want then it's cheaper going Drow because of the bonuses to Dex, Int & Cha. For example you can go

Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Cha 20


I know this isnt strictly related, but I'm having a great deal of fun with a Drow pure bard Swashbuckler. Drow are not great (though not quite as bad as some here maintain), so you need to maximize the strengths they do have: not going 20 Cha is just silly. I spent a few points in drow weapon training to get my rapier and shiruken up there, and most of the rest in swashbuckler tree. SR is very useful at heroic levels, and occasionally useful at Epic levels.

Str 10
Dex 14
Con14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 20