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View Full Version : made 3 spelltouched shuriken - are any of these good or try again?



Xirxx
06-30-2014, 09:55 PM
All level 16

1) Acid, Corrosive Salt, Wounding

2) Acid, Cacophony, Wounding

3) Flaming, Magma Surge, Weakening

I tried them all out and they don't seem to be better than my Snowstar..

Xahtep
06-30-2014, 11:47 PM
Acid, Corrosive Salt, Wounding



This one has some potential, the others are meh. To be honest the best thing about cormirian shurikens is the spelltouched. If you really want raw dps get a lit 2.

TeacherSyn
07-01-2014, 07:18 AM
All level 16

1) Acid, Corrosive Salt, Wounding

2) Acid, Cacophony, Wounding

3) Flaming, Magma Surge, Weakening

I tried them all out and they don't seem to be better than my Snowstar..

It's the hidden effects on some stars that bring out the magic. The effects that proc only occasionally aren't too handy, but the ones that penetrate defenses are quite superior. Note also that the Snowstar has higher base damage than the spelltouched L16. Having Improved Critical: Slashing by the time you use spelltouched stars also helps.

Level 16 stars aren't as filled with these hidden effects. Look for more joy from level 20 and certainly L24 stars.

Remember that the barter system also allows you to crunch back unwanted stars from some ingredients you can recycle.

I also concur that two Green Steel stars are essential: Make a Triple-Positive star, which will easily pummel any undead to dust through Epic and beyond, and a Mineral II, which will be a superior Harry Beater.

Xirxx
07-01-2014, 09:46 AM
It's the hidden effects on some stars that bring out the magic. The effects that proc only occasionally aren't too handy, but the ones that penetrate defenses are quite superior. Note also that the Snowstar has higher base damage than the spelltouched L16. Having Improved Critical: Slashing by the time you use spelltouched stars also helps.

Level 16 stars aren't as filled with these hidden effects. Look for more joy from level 20 and certainly L24 stars.

Remember that the barter system also allows you to crunch back unwanted stars from some ingredients you can recycle.

I also concur that two Green Steel stars are essential: Make a Triple-Positive star, which will easily pummel any undead to dust through Epic and beyond, and a Mineral II, which will be a superior Harry Beater.

I guess I will grind out two GS stars - do people still run the raid?

How can I tell what hidden effects I have?

TeacherSyn
07-01-2014, 10:03 AM
I guess I will grind out two GS stars - do people still run the raid?

How can I tell what hidden effects I have?

Sure. But YMMV as per which servers may see more Shroud runs than not.

You can also score Shroud ingredients, including all Shards of Power, from the chests of "Devil Assault", with the added bonus of Tokens of the Twelve for TR Hearts. With the exception of Shards and the flagging stones collected, all other ingredients are unbound and tradeable. Blank Green Steel items are also only Bound on Equip, so others with spare ingredients could make one for you. The only rarer-than-not ingredient to make GS shuriken are the Large Splintered Horns.

There's also the matter of getting to the three altars to actually craft the stars. A friend with a high-level guild ship might offer this to you as they can hold the three altars that appear in the raid or a couple of wilderness locations.

As for hidden effects, it's a matter of watching your Combat logs and the enemy you hit. Some of my L24s have hidden Improved Paralyzing, Disintegrate, and other deleterious effects that appear often because of my Shiradi Shuricannon's high DPS.

If you haven't already, look at the section on Cormyrian items description in the Eveningstar Challenge Pack article on the DDO Wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Eveningstar_Challenge_Pack), which details what spelltouched effects often might be hidden and how many more effects might appear on higher level stars.

Xirxx
07-01-2014, 10:05 AM
Sure. But YMMV as per which servers may see more Shroud runs than not.

You can also score Shroud ingredients, including all Shards of Power, from the chests of "Devil Assault", with the added bonus of Tokens of the Twelve for TR Hearts. With the exception of Shards and the flagging stones collected, all other ingredients are unbound and tradeable. Blank Green Steel items are also only Bound on Equip, so others with spare ingredients could make one for you. The only rarer-than-not ingredient to make GS shuriken are the Large Splintered Horns.

As for hidden effects, it's a matter of watching your Combat logs and the enemy you hit. Some of my L24s have hidden Improved Paralyzing, Disintegrate, and other deleterious effects that appear often because of my Shiradi Shuricannon's high DPS.

If you haven't already, look at the section on Cormyrian items description in the Eveningstar Challenge Pack article on the DDO Wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Eveningstar_Challenge_Pack), which details what spelltouched effects often might be hidden and how many more effects might appear on higher level stars.

ok, I appreciate that.. could it be true that my snowstar is better than the 3 spellouched shuriken I created? due to the large crit range?

TeacherSyn
07-01-2014, 10:12 AM
ok, I appreciate that.. could it be true that my snowstar is better than the 3 spellouched shuriken I created? due to the large crit range?

Exactly. The Snowstar's crit range is actually expanded with the Ninja Spy's Ninja Master level 20 core ability to something like 13-20. Excluding a Thunder-Forged Star, the Snowstar is still a terribly powerful star with the right build. But L20 and L24 stars will help. Star throwers have to have advantages such as additional stars thrown as well as crit range and threat changes to get an advantage. The shuriken is the least-damaging weapon in game (1d2) so anything that increases threat, base damage and number of stars is more important than the weapon's actual effects, which is why the Snowstar is a great weapon but not for all occasions.

But you'll need DR bypassing for enemies, which is why the Triple-Positive is important against slash-resistant enemies like skeleton giants. If no other star, get that GS star.

Grace_ana
07-01-2014, 12:15 PM
Out of curiosity, as I've never tried a thrower build but might run one on a completionist life for fun - for a shuriken build, which is the applicable improved crit feat? I assumed it was thrown and have seen that in some builds, but you mentioned slashing.

Seikojin
07-01-2014, 12:22 PM
Also offhanding things like Celestia helps with adding more procs.

Xirxx
07-01-2014, 01:02 PM
You can also score Shroud ingredients, including all Shards of Power, from the chests of "Devil Assault", with the added bonus of Tokens of the Twelve for TR Hearts. With the exception of Shards and the flagging stones collected, all other ingredients are unbound and tradeable. Blank Green Steel items are also only Bound on Equip, so others with spare ingredients could make one for you. The only rarer-than-not ingredient to make GS shuriken are the Large Splintered Horns.


Can you pull them on heroic?

TeacherSyn
07-02-2014, 09:32 AM
Out of curiosity, as I've never tried a thrower build but might run one on a completionist life for fun - for a shuriken build, which is the applicable improved crit feat? I assumed it was thrown and have seen that in some builds, but you mentioned slashing.

Improved Critical: Thrown is the standard one for any thrown weapon. Shuriken give slashing damage but IC: Thrown increases their critical range.

TeacherSyn
07-02-2014, 09:37 AM
Can you pull them on heroic?

That's a good question, and I don't know. Few people run DA on Heroic, preferring Epic difficulties for the Tokens. When I can, I'll try Heroic Elite (L18) to see what drops and report back.

JamesNiels
07-03-2014, 07:51 AM
I would not make a gs shuriken. Especially not if i had to grind for one. Its gonna collect dust at higher levels. The spelltouched shuriken are great. Especially the lvl 20 ones. 24 as well but not as good as thunderforged.

Not sure if u know how the hidden effects work so ill just type it. All spelltouched shuriken get effects added of another randomly generated spelltouched shuriken. This happens each throw. And added effects are random every single throw. The shuriken u made are bad imo because the third effect (wounding) could be improved paralyzing or life stealing (chance for negs on vorpal). The ideal spelltouched shuriken (IMO) would look something like this:

Force burst
Lightning strike/magma surge (highest average damage of similar effects)
And improved paralyzing

The impr para is gonna kick serious behind up to at least lvl 20. With the amounts of shuriken thrown even a 5% chance to para is good. (Only fail save on a 1)

P.s. u can turn ur bad ones back in to get back something like 1/3 of the ingredients.

P.p.s if u plan on heroic tr at some point by all means: make a gs shuriken!!!

TeacherSyn
07-03-2014, 08:17 AM
I would not make a gs shuriken. Especially not if i had to grind for one. Its gonna collect dust at higher levels. The spelltouched shuriken are great. Especially the lvl 20 ones. 24 as well but not as good as thunderforged.

Not sure if u know how the hidden effects work so ill just type it. All spelltouched shuriken get effects added of another randomly generated spelltouched shuriken. This happens each throw. And added effects are random every single throw. The shuriken u made are bad imo because the third effect (wounding) could be improved paralyzing or life stealing (chance for negs on vorpal). The ideal spelltouched shuriken (IMO) would look something like this:

Force burst
Lightning strike/magma surge (highest average damage of similar effects)
And improved paralyzing

The impr para is gonna kick serious behind up to at least lvl 20. With the amounts of shuriken thrown even a 5% chance to para is good. (Only fail save on a 1)

P.s. u can turn ur bad ones back in to get back something like 1/3 of the ingredients.

P.p.s if u plan on heroic tr at some point by all means: make a gs shuriken!!!

Fighting skeletons is the biggest challenge for a star-thrower. Stars simply cannot bypass Bludgeon DR well without some help. With no other crafting options for a superior undead-slayer that ignores the DR and hits them for what they are, the Triple-Positive GS shuriken is and remains the only and best option you can craft with its Greater Disrupting effects. The Spelltouched stars are awesome, however, Disruption is not one of its options, hidden or otherwise.

That said, the second best one is The Morning Star, also designed to hurt undead and easily farmed or purchased. You won't get Disrupting, but it may still do the job, especially if you add in red augments that add more undead damage. They also have Epic and Heroic versions.

JamesNiels
07-03-2014, 10:16 AM
Fighting skeletons is the biggest challenge for a star-thrower. Stars simply cannot bypass Bludgeon DR well without some help. With no other crafting options for a superior undead-slayer that ignores the DR and hits them for what they are, the Triple-Positive GS shuriken is and remains the only and best option you can craft with its Greater Disrupting effects. The Spelltouched stars are awesome, however, Disruption is not one of its options, hidden or otherwise.

That said, the second best one is The Morning Star, also designed to hurt undead and easily farmed or purchased. You won't get Disrupting, but it may still do the job, especially if you add in red augments that add more undead damage. They also have Epic and Heroic versions.

Point taken on the gs. On undead the disruption will likely outperform the spelltouched by quite a bit. However i dont agree with morningstar being the second best. For undead maybe. But the procs on the spelltouched add more dps than the morningstar on non-undead. If he gets lightning strike that will add 9.15 damage on average per star according to the wiki page. That pllus the 2 bursts will total more on average. Not taking in account the other small-percent-chance-at-high-damage-proc. I have to say however that lightning strike will not add its averaga 9.15 damage on average because if a mob is near dead and it procs it will deal lower damage. I also did not account for a ruby in the red slot. It will likely be a tie if it has a good ruby slotted i guess. Ahem, however the spelltouched are SO much more fun. Lightning strikes and crushing wave sounds all over the place.

Btw good job on making the best monk guide ever! I love it

TeacherSyn
07-03-2014, 12:29 PM
Point taken on the gs. On undead the disruption will likely outperform the spelltouched by quite a bit. However i dont agree with morningstar being the second best. For undead maybe. But the procs on the spelltouched add more dps than the morningstar on non-undead. If he gets lightning strike that will add 9.15 damage on average per star according to the wiki page. That pllus the 2 bursts will total more on average. Not taking in account the other small-percent-chance-at-high-damage-proc. I have to say however that lightning strike will not add its averaga 9.15 damage on average because if a mob is near dead and it procs it will deal lower damage. I also did not account for a ruby in the red slot. It will likely be a tie if it has a good ruby slotted i guess. Ahem, however the spelltouched are SO much more fun. Lightning strikes and crushing wave sounds all over the place.

Btw good job on making the best monk guide ever! I love it

Right...on The Morning Star, I was only speaking of its undead-damaging properties. I've a lot of ST stars that don't do too badly against other undead, but when something red-named like Garamol shows up, his bony butt is mine with that Triple-Positive. Here's proof. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPVpBwKJLx8) Far faster takedown than from my tanking light Monk.

In regards to the guide, thanks. Group contributions from the forums and the wiki as well as play experience made it what is. I just compiled the thing.

JamesNiels
07-03-2014, 03:19 PM
Oh, oops misinterpreted. Not a native speaker to the language. I see it now.

So to answer the op's question: yesh try again. Turn in the crappy ones, keep the best (probably the salt as it deals untyped damage) and try getting better ones. Dont expect to get the optimal combination, ever. One with lightning strike and impr para is as close as i would dare to expect.

And about the snowstar: the spelltouched are probably better. At least without the ninja spy capstone. Dunno about with it.

Oh and u know about carrying a kama/shortsword in ur offhand? It could help. Just checking

Xirxx
07-03-2014, 03:46 PM
Oh, oops misinterpreted. Not a native speaker to the language. I see it now.

So to answer the op's question: yesh try again. Turn in the crappy ones, keep the best (probably the salt as it deals untyped damage) and try getting better ones. Dont expect to get the optimal combination, ever. One with lightning strike and impr para is as close as i would dare to expect.

And about the snowstar: the spelltouched are probably better. At least without the ninja spy capstone. Dunno about with it.

Oh and u know about carrying a kama/shortsword in ur offhand? It could help. Just checking

yes, I currently have a seeker 4 - need to upgrade that