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View Full Version : EK int/cha to att, dmg few options



RD2play
06-25-2014, 09:05 AM
With more and more options opening to a multitude of races/classes in the aspect of ability mod change for attack and damage. (pdk training, bard different tack ...) I was wondering why the EK didn't get this option. maybe you guys just forgot ? or are there balancing issues ? I don't know!

But I do have a few options worth considering imo. all have to do with giving the EK access to its main mod for attack and damage. Int for Wiz and Cha for Sorc.

1 - Grant: add the spell insightful attack to wiz/sorc spellbook/list, with core enhancement level6 (same as arti spell)
and Grant: add the spell insightfull damage with the core level 12 (same as arti spell)

or
2 - Grant: automatic insightful attack with core level 12, and damage with core level 18. Permanent Use STR or INT/CHA modifier for attack/damage whichever is higher

or
3 - add: T4 enhancement insightful attack, 2ap (can be perma or 1/2/3 1ap each SLA) use STR or INT/CHA for attack, whichever is higher.
and add: T5 enhancement insightful damage, 2ap, perquisite insightful attack (same as above, either perma or 1/2/3 1ap each SLA) use STR or INT/CHA for damage, whichever is higher.

or
4 - T5 enhancement 1/2/3 grants insightful bonus to STR equal to .3/.6/1 times INT/CHA modifier (perma or SLA, like "divine might", maybe call it "eldritch might" ??)


Ok, I think these would be great additions to incentivise more investment into EK for both pure and/or multiclass EK characters, as well as adding more mod change options to the game. hope I can get some backing on this change, see what other players think of these Ideas and whether some might be overpowered/underpowered and why, so maybe I can learn new things or different visions.

Thanks for reading :)

PsychoBlonde
06-25-2014, 09:50 AM
With more and more options opening to a multitude of races/classes in the aspect of ability mod change for attack and damage. (pdk training, bard different tack ...) I was wondering why the EK didn't get this option. maybe you guys just forgot ? or are there balancing issues ? I don't know!

Make the case that wizards need too many stats to function and thus need to be able to use their primary spellcasting stat for a melee build because they have no other source of reasonable dps. Oh wait, wizards have AWESOME dps. So, yeah, if you want to build for EK you should use one of the many preexisting melee options. Wizards are powerful as-is, they don't need to be able to SIMULTANEOUSLY melee AND be primary spellcasters. Unlike, say, bards, who need con, cha, dex, and str to function as melee (their only real source of DPS since their 3 damaging spells are laughably awful). And unlike rogues, who need strength, dex, con, int, wis, and cha to function across the board, so giving them an option for a dex build gives them some leeway.

The classes that get "use different stat" options are the ones that have a demanding setup right out the door to be decent at ANYTHING. If you give this kind of build optionality to wizard you're not looking at "decent at something" . . . instead you're looking at "official best at everything".

RD2play
06-25-2014, 11:54 AM
Make the case that wizards need too many stats to function and thus need to be able to use their primary spellcasting stat for a melee build because they have no other source of reasonable dps. Oh wait, wizards have AWESOME dps. So, yeah, if you want to build for EK you should use one of the many preexisting melee options. Wizards are powerful as-is, they don't need to be able to SIMULTANEOUSLY melee AND be primary spellcasters. Unlike, say, bards, who need con, cha, dex, and str to function as melee (their only real source of DPS since their 3 damaging spells are laughably awful). And unlike rogues, who need strength, dex, con, int, wis, and cha to function across the board, so giving them an option for a dex build gives them some leeway.

The classes that get "use different stat" options are the ones that have a demanding setup right out the door to be decent at ANYTHING. If you give this kind of build optionality to wizard you're not looking at "decent at something" . . . instead you're looking at "official best at everything".

Didn't look at it from that perspective thanks !
still, ... adding the spells to the wizard spell book might seem to be the best option if any, since only one can be applied to your weapon at a time. To me the EK seems underwhelming and not a very good tree for a pure wiz ... also arti gets to use INT for attack or damage and you cant tell me that arti needs more than a wizard stat wise, and also a sorc does have the option to go pdk pure or pally splash to get allot out of its main casting stat. You think this is overpowered as well or has it to do with sacrifices where the sorc gets no class feats and you would narrow your weapon choices ?

PsychoBlonde
06-25-2014, 12:07 PM
Didn't look at it from that perspective thanks !
still, ... adding the spells to the wizard spell book might seem to be the best option if any, since only one can be applied to your weapon at a time. To me the EK seems underwhelming and not a very good tree for a pure wiz ... also arti gets to use INT for attack or damage and you cant tell me that arti needs more than a wizard stat wise, and also a sorc does have the option to go pdk pure or pally splash to get allot out of its main casting stat. You think this is overpowered as well or has it to do with sacrifices where the sorc gets no class feats and you would narrow your weapon choices ?

Does it *have* to be a good tree for a pure wizard? And arti's do need more stats than a wizard. Wizards need two--Con and Int. A (crossbow) arti needs Dex, Con, and Int, and that's the simplest arti build stat-wise.

There's nothing wrong with having a tree that's optimized for splashing.

RD2play
06-25-2014, 12:14 PM
Does it *have* to be a good tree for a pure wizard?

I think Yes ! every tree should be viable/good for its parent class especially for pures! I multi all my chars but that is how I feel about it. If you want a true multiclass pre (like how they work in PnP) then the prerequisites should also be more than one class to unlock the pre.

again this is my opinion and I thank very much you for sharing with me your vision :)

bsquishwizzy
06-30-2014, 01:45 PM
Make the case that wizards need too many stats to function and thus need to be able to use their primary spellcasting stat for a melee build because they have no other source of reasonable dps. Oh wait, wizards have AWESOME dps. So, yeah, if you want to build for EK you should use one of the many preexisting melee options. Wizards are powerful as-is, they don't need to be able to SIMULTANEOUSLY melee AND be primary spellcasters. Unlike, say, bards, who need con, cha, dex, and str to function as melee (their only real source of DPS since their 3 damaging spells are laughably awful). And unlike rogues, who need strength, dex, con, int, wis, and cha to function across the board, so giving them an option for a dex build gives them some leeway.

The classes that get "use different stat" options are the ones that have a demanding setup right out the door to be decent at ANYTHING. If you give this kind of build optionality to wizard you're not looking at "decent at something" . . . instead you're looking at "official best at everything".

A wizard or sorc only has awesome DPS is they invest in the following:

1) Spell Pen (for those spells – necro – that need to bypass spell resistance),
2) Crit-multipliers – usually weapons-based,
3) Potency bumpers – again, usually weapons based, though AM has a line for this,
4) A deep spell pool.

You go EK, most of that goes out the window. Getting crit-boosters and potency-boosters usually means tacking those on a weapon, meaning that your standard DPS with a an actual weapon is laughable. You lose a damage-dealing attributes for stuff that bumps your casting power. So you either pick one or the other.

And an EK is now relying on three stats as opposed to two for a normal caster.

Plus, since you are considered melee, you now have to carry around armor, and bolster stats for attack and crits, invest heavily into fortification (Vampire form if the cheapest way to do that up until you discover light spells), AC, Dodge, and appropriate feats (melee is still very-much feat-centric). You’ll not be able to skimp and hang-out at the back of the pack like you could a normal caster. So there are significant trade-offs.

I’ve got an EK right now parked at lvl 12. The problem with the build is that the melee damage is kind of “blah”, so I end up reverting to traditional casting. My thought is that what should be done is to add stuff like Fire Shield, Stone Skin, and bolstering elemental damage on my strikes so that I’m focused more on melee. The problem is that the damage capabilities I’m given are force-related. It’s nice and all, but that’s primarily related to spells like Magic Missile which are all ranged spells. It’s not helping me all that much. From what I can tell, Shield is a force spell, but is tied to a static +4 AC regardless of force spell power. A simple fix is to add in that spell power into the calculation for AC when casting Shield.

As a splash I can see some benefits, but not a whole lot. That being said, they should never make an enhancement tree optimized for splashes. Multi-classing is taking what already is, and making it something new. Making something strictly for customizing a build gives splashing even more undue advantages that they already have.