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stoerm
06-24-2014, 07:46 AM
Having made the leap from the comfort of casting classes to melee, I'm now thinking of going Shadar Kai rogue for my next life. I have some quarterstaves stashed, so it's a natural fit to go acrobat. I'm a bit out of my comfort zone here, thus asking for review.

This is largely a rehash of what's been previously posted on the forums but I may have caught the wrong end of the stick, if you will excuse the pun. For example, I'm not sure if I should take henshin mystic enhancements on top of acrobat ones. I went dex based as it's a good fit with Shadar Kai stats and for the reflex save. The druid level is for Shillelagh and to get Empower Heal; Ram's Might is going to waste.

Feedback gratefully received.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Rogue Pastlife
Level 28 Lawful Neutral Shadar-Kai Male
(6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Druid \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 376
Spell Points: 280
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 24
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 10 13
Dexterity 20 33
Constitution 16 19
Intelligence 14 17
Wisdom 10 13
Charisma 6 9

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 10 31
Bluff -1 27
Concentration 4 32
Diplomacy 3 30
Disable Device 7 34
Haggle 0 8
Heal 1 9
Hide 6 19
Intimidate 3 11
Jump 5 29
Listen 1 9
Move Silently 6 19
Open Lock 10 42
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 11
Search 7 34
Spellcraft 4 22
Spot 5 32
Swim 1 9
Tumble 7 26
Use Magic Device 3 30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Reflexes


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Forced Escape
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Shadar-Kai Grit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Shadar-Kai Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Shadow Phase (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Shadow Jaunt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Empowered Jaunt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Vault (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)

Miahoo
06-24-2014, 08:05 AM
Thats kinda my rog. I just took 1 lvl of ftr instead of druid.

my 2 cents:
- dex build is a trap
- I don't value grandmaster that much. its nice... nothing more. if u want dex based so bad, take ISA.
- if u go str base, drop those crappy feats (aka mobility, precision, spring attack, etc) take 2 cleaves, PA and OC at 21 (I took EToughness at 24, but u can take w/e)
- you probably took GMoF so you can be on wind stance instead of haste - I took the haste feat so I can be on ocean for the saves+dodge or earth when I'm tanking.

hit me in game if u have any questions about my build

lethargos
06-24-2014, 09:11 AM
Just to remind: rams might also gives +2 damage so you want to keep it up.

MalarKan
06-25-2014, 07:31 AM
i looked at your build and inmediatly two things came to my mind:

1.- You can't take Power Attack at level 6, unless you start with 12 str at character creatiom (tomes aply as if u were taking thm manually at each ml each recquires: lvl3 +1, lvl7 +2, lvl11 +3, etc).
2.- Monks get at level 6 the Adept of Forms feat for free, so just ignore this :D

IMHO, as for enhancements, Puting more than 1 point into Sly Flourish and Staff Lounge are a waste. Ima get off my comfy warm bed, turn on my computer and get you a screenshot of how my acrobat tree will look like if it can help ^^

Cheers

MalarKan
06-25-2014, 07:49 AM
Ima get off my comfy warm bed, turn on my computer and get you a screenshot of how my acrobat tree will look like if it can help ^^


http://i.imgur.com/3ZEL4u7.jpg

It a halfling pal8/monk6/rog6 , just grabing paly past lives for better heal amp in the future :P


Cheers!

RD2play
06-25-2014, 07:59 AM
2.- Monks get at level 6 the Master of Forms feat for free, so at 21 you are free to take any other feat you want ^^, so, if you keep your feat progression, you are able to take 1 epic feat :D


6 monk only grants "adept of forms", so if you want "master" for te crit mutli in mountain you still have to burn a feat to get that.

MalarKan
06-25-2014, 08:01 AM
6 monk only grants "adept of forms", so if you want "master" for te crit mutli in mountain you still have to burn a feat to get that.

Oohhh right... LOL in my defense, i will say that im still waking up hahaha

RD2play
06-25-2014, 08:12 AM
Oohhh right... LOL in my defense, i will say that im still waking up hahaha

lol np m8, I am actually not that knowledgeable about monks but since I recently looked into the forms for better understanding (well as much as wiki and asking around will get you) I saw a slipup and thought lets help out! we all have our moments ... especially in the morning :)

stoerm
06-26-2014, 05:03 AM
Thanks for the replies. I trusted the planner blindly, so will have to move the PA feat elsewhere.

I played around with making a strength build, and have the following thoughts:

+ Get more combat feats, eg. 2HF and OC
+ Option of dumping dexterity and taking int+insightful reflexes.
+ More str boosting items available
+ Option of using tactical feats
- Base prime stat (attack and damage) is 3 lower due to starting with 18 vs 20, and Shadar Kai not having a strength enhancement.
- Lower reflex save
- Lose sweeping strikes
- Dex based has more synergy with monk stances. Air stance is great, fire is meh.

Miahoo
06-26-2014, 05:44 AM
+ Option of dumping dexterity and taking int+insightful reflexes.

I don't think it worth it, IR are for int builds, where you get your int to 40-60s (70s?).

If you really need the saves (I have 70s-80s on my str base rog) you can go dex - just take into consideration the stuff you'll lose (2hf [unless u can get 17 base str], oc...)

stoerm
06-26-2014, 06:55 AM
I don't think it worth it, IR are for int builds, where you get your int to 40-60s (70s?).

If you really need the saves (I have 70s-80s on my str base rog) you can go dex - just take into consideration the stuff you'll lose (2hf [unless u can get 17 base str], oc...)

Thanks again.

Final question, which monk stance do you find yourself using? It looks like both air and earth are good.

Miow
06-26-2014, 07:09 AM
I'm using a strength build 15druid 5 rogue at the moment, his saves aren't great but he makes up for it with great self healing(and group healing if you like) and his dps and attack speed(supper fast) are pretty good. I'd go human instead of shadarkai...they are meh.

Miahoo
06-26-2014, 10:03 AM
Thanks again.

Final question, which monk stance do you find yourself using? It looks like both air and earth are good.

Earth only when I'm tanking, as I like the fast movement speed (under earth you get 10% movement penalty)

I usually under the ocean stance for the dodge and saves.

I don't use the wind because I have the blinding speed feat.

dualscissors
07-03-2014, 03:55 PM
Thats kinda my rog. I just took 1 lvl of ftr instead of druid.

my 2 cents:
- dex build is a trap
- I don't value grandmaster that much. its nice... nothing more. if u want dex based so bad, take ISA.
- if u go str base, drop those crappy feats (aka mobility, precision, spring attack, etc) take 2 cleaves, PA and OC at 21 (I took EToughness at 24, but u can take w/e)
- you probably took GMoF so you can be on wind stance instead of haste - I took the haste feat so I can be on ocean for the saves+dodge or earth when I'm tanking.

hit me in game if u have any questions about my build


While Dex may not have as many Ram's Might, rage pots, etc. that raise it, from a fairly new perspective, it seems to me that Dex makes sense in certain instances with rogues: REF, Balance/Hide/Move Sil. Maybe more important here is Sweeping Strikes has a Dex DC and AoE tripping is really great to take advantage of if you are doing a staff build. That said, I'm not sure how well 13 Rog will take advantage of that DC, and the 1/2 Rog level base strikes me as being unworkable in Epic Hard or Elite. Maybe with lots of tactical and trip boons. At the least, I'm with you that STR can be high enough to get the Cleave chain. I wouldn't want to miss those on a melee.

dualscissors
07-03-2014, 04:09 PM
While Dex may not have as many Ram's Might, rage pots, etc. that raise it, from a fairly new perspective, it seems to me that Dex makes sense in certain instances with rogues: REF, Balance/Hide/Move Sil. Maybe more important here is Sweeping Strikes has a Dex DC and AoE tripping is really great to take advantage of if you are doing a staff build. That said, I'm not sure how well 13 Rog will take advantage of that DC, and the 1/2 Rog level base strikes me as being unworkable in Epic Hard or Elite. Maybe with lots of tactical and trip boons. At the least, I'm with you that STR can be high enough to get the Cleave chain. I wouldn't want to miss those on a melee.

Meant to add TWF rogues in the reasons, which is a non-issue here.

tracimatrix
07-11-2014, 03:37 PM
I dont hear much on the rogue acrobat capstone. It looks to be so strong to me, but no one is cheering pure rogue.

You gain +2 Strength and Dexterity, +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves, +5% attack speed with quarterstaves, +2 critical hit damage with all weapons, +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks.

Plus 4 of the rogues special abilities menu. Max sneak dice. Best rogue skills.

Miahoo
07-14-2014, 02:24 PM
I dont hear much on the rogue acrobat capstone. It looks to be so strong to me, but no one is cheering pure rogue.

You gain +2 Strength and Dexterity, +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves, +5% attack speed with quarterstaves, +2 critical hit damage with all weapons, +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks.

Plus 4 of the rogues special abilities menu. Max sneak dice. Best rogue skills.

Splash 6 monk and u get +4 to hit +6 dmg, 25% incorporeal, feats, saves, ki, finishers...

I went full rog before TRing into 13rog/6mnk/1ftr, and the 2nd is much more powerful.