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Klixen
06-20-2014, 01:15 AM
I'm about to make my character completionist (lacking bard PL) and epic completionist (lacking 2 martial PLs). I'm mostly soloing as my play time can be quite erratic and I may need to leave at short notice. Mostly I play EH, so extremely high DCs are not a requirement (I do have 3 wiz and 3 fvs PLs for spell pen, and 3 sorc PLs for evocation DCs with soundburst).

Now, the question is, is there a solo bard build that goes well with the martial destinies? I was thinking maybe a SWF Swashbuckler in LD for Blitzing, that would of course require PA, cleave and great cleave, but would I be over-extending by splashing 2 rogue for trapping skills and evasion?

I've been looking at the Count of Monte Cristo build, but it doesn't really suit LD without those feats, does it? Or I might splash 2 ftr in addition for a few more feats, but would that hurt the DCs too bad on EH?

Chimeran1
06-20-2014, 04:57 AM
Depends on your play style.
12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue
Not sure what your play style is but on epic elite I could solo the blade master boss on Rusty Blades.
Displaced as a SWF swashbuckler.
He only hit me maybe 4 times, it was a joke.

I ran Epic elite Battle for Eveningstar and can " slap in the face" coupe de grace insta kill any non death warded mob, it never fails.

DC spells I don't use, waste of time.
For crowd control I use fascinate , it does most mobs including undead and constructs.

The build is listed as the Squash Buckler build.

Are you melee like I play? Then it's fine.
If you want to be a caster, then swashbuckler kind of a waste of time, may as well go 18/2

To me swashbuckler requires feats, and bards for me are ****, weak, low on feats, suckful dps.
It's a fun change, it's easy to get your perform over 70 with only 12 levels of bard.
I have noticed though you need gear with incorporeal cause the newer content have true seeing, and bards get one shotted.

Melee bard is a lot of fun, I don't die much and am very useful as a utility for raising dead, heal scrolls +50%
I have had no issues with any EE yet and my toon is level 22.
Just get at least 12 levels of bard asap to get the tier 5 swashbuckler " slap in the face " and coupe de grace.
Without those 2 skills, you will just be another craptastic old school bard.

giftie
06-20-2014, 05:01 AM
I'm about to make my character completionist (lacking bard PL) and epic completionist (lacking 2 martial PLs). I'm mostly soloing as my play time can be quite erratic and I may need to leave at short notice. Mostly I play EH, so extremely high DCs are not a requirement (I do have 3 wiz and 3 fvs PLs for spell pen, and 3 sorc PLs for evocation DCs with soundburst).

Now, the question is, is there a solo bard build that goes well with the martial destinies? I was thinking maybe a SWF Swashbuckler in LD for Blitzing, that would of course require PA, cleave and great cleave, but would I be over-extending by splashing 2 rogue for trapping skills and evasion?

I've been looking at the Count of Monte Cristo build, but it doesn't really suit LD without those feats, does it? Or I might splash 2 ftr in addition for a few more feats, but would that hurt the DCs too bad on EH?

I have something just in mind. I've only gotten mine to 18, and I haven't finished tweaking yet, but so far I like it a lot. I expect to present it in full once I finished gearing and testing, but here's what I've gotten so far:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Human Male
(8 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 10 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 430
Spell Points: 502
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 18 34
Dexterity 14 19
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 12 17
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 8 13

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 5
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 6 35
Disable Device 5 34
Heal 1 19
Open Lock 6 17
Perform 1 32
Search 5 34
Use Magic Device 3 32

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target



Swashbuckler up to Core III and Skirmisher, important enhancements are Fast Movement, Deflect Arrows and On Your Toes III.

Mandatory twists are Legendary Shield Mastery and Lithe.

Basically, it's not a Bard at all, it's a self-buffing/self-healing evasive Fighter with trap skills. My idea was to get crit profile as high as possible with Rapier and Kukri, and while I had Divine Crusader in mind, I too need to get a few Martial PLs so it was built for LD as well.

Stuff I estimated but haven't yet verified in-game:

Crit profile 13-18 x4, 19-20x6 with Balizarde.
SWF with 60 STR not relying on temporary boosts
Dual Damage and Haste boost for burst
35% Doublestrike
69% avoidance (and Uncanny Dodge)
106+ PRR
Evasion with 60+ Reflex
Full trap skills and UMD

Should be a potent soloist and suit your requirements for Bard and Martial PLs.

EDIT: Second level Rogue is taken at 18 to make sure you get it before the final XP farm. You could take it much earlier, but possibly wasting skill points (though I doubt it). I would personally get Extend earlier than Great Cleave given the short duration of your buffs.

CThruTheEgo
06-20-2014, 08:21 AM
I've been looking at the Count of Monte Cristo build, but it doesn't really suit LD without those feats, does it? Or I might splash 2 ftr in addition for a few more feats, but would that hurt the DCs too bad on EH?

You could convert Monte Cristo into a build more suited for dreadnought. With EH as your goal, you've got a lot more flexibility and less need for min-maxing. So you could swap precision for power attack, drop spell focus enchantment for cleave, and force of personality for great cleave.

In dreadnought without spell focus enchantment or magister's enchantment specialist, you lose a total of 7 DCs leaving you with a 49 DC. That alone should be sufficient for EH, but you've also got debuffs you can use to boost that number.

Losing force of personality means a loss of 23 will save, leaving you with a 41. In EH failing a will save is much less of a threat than it is on EE, so this isn't a big deal.

Keeping everything else the same, you'd still have the versatility of the original build and be effective enough for EH content while having stronger melee and being more suited for dreadnought.

You could also drop 4 bard levels and take 2 fighter/2 rogue. This allows you to keep all the feats (swapping precision for power attack of course) and add cleave/great cleave while keeping evasion and possibly gaining trap skills if you want to build for them (might need to funnel some points into int at creation). You lose 2 cha (1 will save, 1 DC, 1 damage, and 37 sp), 1 dex (1 reflex), slippery mind, 5 dodge cap, 2 doublestrike, 2 damage, 2 attack, 1 enhancement bonus to your weapon (1 attack/damage and 3 sp if using it as a spell casting implement), and 4 spell pen. You could also switch some enhancements around and take kensai's extra action boost, weapon group specialization, and/or haste boost. Switching enhancements will almost certainly mean losing at least 1 DC, but that won't matter much.

The first option is a fairly simple adjustment and loses DCs and will save, neither of which should matter for EH. The second option loses a little bit of everything (dps, saves, dodge, DCs, spell pen) but gains trap skills (if you build for it) and more sustainable burst dps potential. This option is more complicated and requires a lot of changes so I'd plan it out carefully to make sure everything fits if you go that route.

The last thing to consider is self healing. Monte Cristo relies on sacred ground for most healing with spells thrown in as needed. Without sacred ground you'll need to rely on your spells more. They should still be sufficient for EH but if you find yourself needing a bit more, then consider twisting cocoon and/or fitting in empower healing or maximize. I'd wait and see how you do with just the spells first though, since there are so many valuable things worth twisting and I wouldn't want to give up any feats. If you need to spend a feat for healing I'd probably drop inspire excellence, although I'd really hate to do that and would try to find another way to manage.

Hope that helps.

unbongwah
06-20-2014, 11:30 AM
I think the question is: how much melee DPS are you willing to sacrifice to have viable DCs? E.g., at a minimum I would want Quicken, Heighten, and SF:Evo or Enchant (to open DC Twists); that's three feats you're not putting into melee. Do you give up, say, Shield Mastery/ISM/LSM to get them? Or do you MC with ftr for extra feats; and if so, how far do you go? If you go CHA-based, do you have to sacrifice Overwhelming Crit? Do you use one of your Twist slots for Soundburst SLA? APs you're spending on Swashbuckler are APs you're not spending on Spellsinger for better DCs & Spell Pen. Etc. etc...

Varinon
06-20-2014, 11:48 AM
I have something just in mind. I've only gotten mine to 18, and I haven't finished tweaking yet, but so far I like it a lot. I expect to present it in full once I finished gearing and testing, but here's what I've gotten so far:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Human Male
(8 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 10 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 430
Spell Points: 502
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 18 34
Dexterity 14 19
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 12 17
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 8 13

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 5
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 6 35
Disable Device 5 34
Heal 1 19
Open Lock 6 17
Perform 1 32
Search 5 34
Use Magic Device 3 32

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target



Swashbuckler up to Core III and Skirmisher, important enhancements are Fast Movement, Deflect Arrows and On Your Toes III.

Mandatory twists are Legendary Shield Mastery and Lithe.

Basically, it's not a Bard at all, it's a self-buffing/self-healing evasive Fighter with trap skills. My idea was to get crit profile as high as possible with Rapier and Kukri, and while I had Divine Crusader in mind, I too need to get a few Martial PLs so it was built for LD as well.

Stuff I estimated but haven't yet verified in-game:

Crit profile 13-18 x4, 19-20x6 with Balizarde.
SWF with 60 STR not relying on temporary boosts
Dual Damage and Haste boost for burst
35% Doublestrike
69% avoidance (and Uncanny Dodge)
106+ PRR
Evasion with 60+ Reflex
Full trap skills and UMD

Should be a potent soloist and suit your requirements for Bard and Martial PLs.

EDIT: Second level Rogue is taken at 18 to make sure you get it before the final XP farm. You could take it much earlier, but possibly wasting skill points (though I doubt it). I would personally get Extend earlier than Great Cleave given the short duration of your buffs.

With the exception of being strength based instead of dexterity based, that build is eerily similar to the one I've been running (Exact same class split, very similar enhancements and feats. I'm drow instead of human though--for the rapier enhancements.) I've only gotten to level 13 so far with it but it works very well. (No idea on epics though)

Chimeran1
06-20-2014, 11:22 PM
With the exception of being strength based instead of dexterity based, that build is eerily similar to the one I've been running (Exact same class split, very similar enhancements and feats. I'm drow instead of human though--for the rapier enhancements.) I've only gotten to level 13 so far with it but it works very well. (No idea on epics though)



No fascinate for freezing entire rooms of undead, constructs, vermin,?
A build that relies on pure end game destiny twists ... I don't see the point.
No evasion until level 18?
By not taking bard to 12 you are missing out on so much more.
Swashbuckling alone with its synergy to Charisma bards and the tier 5 skills that you are never going to get?
Charisma bard can do all that, spam crits for 600 with no destiny path or twists.
Fascinate EE never fails, one shot kills never fails etc etc..
+5 damage while in precision stance.

So you miss all that by taking a couple more levels of fighter and gain what?
A toon that looks like a bard but is about 60% weaker than a 12/6/2?

Chimeran1
06-20-2014, 11:29 PM
I think the question is: how much melee DPS are you willing to sacrifice to have viable DCs? E.g., at a minimum I would want Quicken, Heighten, and SF:Evo or Enchant (to open DC Twists); that's three feats you're not putting into melee. Do you give up, say, Shield Mastery/ISM/LSM to get them? Or do you MC with ftr for extra feats; and if so, how far do you go? If you go CHA-based, do you have to sacrifice Overwhelming Crit? Do you use one of your Twist slots for Soundburst SLA? APs you're spending on Swashbuckler are APs you're not spending on Spellsinger for better DCs & Spell Pen. Etc. etc...

I've been running EE since level 20, now level 24.
I've found fascinate CC is a waste of time, everyone is cleaving and nuking I no longer waste my time on it in groups, the high DC for spells require too many past lives for me and groups don't really need it.
Solo is a different story.

A charisma bard 12/6/2 as the Squash Buckler build is very good.
I have no destiny paths, no twists and have run most EE content.
With the Whisperchain mail from high road, CITW rapier at level 23 I get top kills, ( prob from kill steals )toon feels like a killing machine with its high double strike and good dps and to be able to one shot mobs like that... I just laugh at the above builds with less than 12 levels of bard, obviously never used the " Slap and Gap "
Any trouble just hit fascinate and bail, whole room grinds to a halt and you can 1 shot 99% of the mobs.
I have not used any sound burst spells, only heals and scrolls never had any issues and I don't even think the toon has died yet.

Munkenmo
06-20-2014, 11:54 PM
I've been theorizing a melee S&B build, that should be really effective through out the leveling process.

For the majority of heroic content I'd replace weapon finesse with Dragonmark of passage. Sap probably won't be needed given the amount of free knockdowns you can get from swashbuckler / stalwart defender, so if you want ddoor, pick up weapon finesse instead of sap.


http://i.imgur.com/vLBcwEh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fFmFy5w.jpg

giftie
06-23-2014, 12:01 PM
No fascinate for freezing entire rooms of undead, constructs, vermin,?

That's right. Although 2 points can be shuffled into SS core II and III if you find you miss Fascinate Undead.


A build that relies on pure end game destiny twists ... I don't see the point.

It relies on them to the same extent any build does. You don't need Lithe until you equip Dragonscale armor, and Improved Shield Mastery will suffice for heroics.


No evasion until level 18?

As mentioned, Evasion can be taken earlier. For a build aimed at grinding ePLs, skill point optimization is more important than early Evasion.


By not taking bard to 12 you are missing out on so much more.

Bard 12 is one extra level 4 spell, and that's it. This build doesn't go high enough up either enhancement line to qualify for Core IVs.


Swashbuckling alone with its synergy to Charisma bards and the tier 5 skills that you are never going to get?

Swashbuckling has no inherent synergy with Charisma.


Charisma bard can do all that, spam crits for 600 with no destiny path or twists.

Those 600 crits start looking pretty weak compared to 13-18 x4, 19-20 x6 crit profile in Master's Blitz.


one shot kills never fails etc etc..

Ask any Rogue how excited they are about Assassinate in the new raids.


So you miss all that by taking a couple more levels of fighter and gain what?

A toon that looks like a bard but is about 60% weaker than a 12/6/2?

Take a Charisma Bard through 3x Martial PL without PA, Cleave and Great Cleave, and then get back to me and tell me how much stronger it is.

As stated, despite the dominant class this is not a Bard, it's a self-sufficient Fighter.