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ThomasHunter
06-17-2014, 08:54 AM
I really like the Count of Monte Cristo build by CThruTheEgo. I wanted to take that basic template, but make some changes for what I thought would be fun. This build would NOT be for any EE content (I really dislike playing EE in general).

I have a Helf Warchanter at level 9 currently that I plan on LR-ing into a Swashbuckler. So, 32-point build.

STR - 9
DEX - 14
CON - 15
INT - 12
WIS - 8
CHR - 17

Feats:
1 - SWF, Pally Dil
3 - Precision
6 - Extend
9 - ISWF
12 - IC:Pierce
15 - Maximize (I am hoping that Shout and Greater Shout will be fun albeit I have never used those spells before)
18 - GSWF

Not certain about Epic levels yet, but I could see going with Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery at 21 and 24 and Perfect SWF at some point. I would also consider the Haste feat and then drop Extend and change it out for SF:Enchantment at some point as twisting in the additional +3 DC seems fun.

I am unsure of why CThru's build takes Perfect TWF though.

So, is the change too severe? Is the Shout series of spells more about stunning rather than damage so I should drop Maximize? Can I not really combine melee and spell casting? That would be sad!

I am hesitant to LR before receiving some feedback, so I am really looking forward to feedback and information. Thanks!

N-0cturn
06-17-2014, 10:24 AM
Just some thoughts:

Feats:

I think dropping Force of personality for HElf Pally Dil is not a bad change.
However you also dropped Quicken, which helps you a lot to stay alive. Maximize is a good choice because I find Self Heals a bit lacking without it.

Stats:

I am not sure why you changed them the way you did. Why do you need 12 int? Usually I don't have too few skill points on a pure bard.

Also 9 Str could be a bit annoying to level I guess. You still need str to Hit. Well this depends on the kind of gear the char has and which difficulty you play most. Something like 14 - 14 - 16 - 8 - 8 -16 would probably be most effective from 1-20. With good twink gear you could also go 10 - 14 - 15 - 8 - 8 -18 .

Well on the other hand I never levelled a char w/o PA and you might hit fine even with a low str. I am really not sure about this one.

Seikojin
06-17-2014, 12:22 PM
Just some thoughts:

Feats:

I think dropping Force of personality for HElf Pally Dil is not a bad change.
However you also dropped Quicken, which helps you a lot to stay alive. Maximize is a good choice because I find Self Heals a bit lacking without it.

Stats:

I am not sure why you changed them the way you did. Why do you need 12 int? Usually I don't have too few skill points on a pure bard.

Also 9 Str could be a bit annoying to level I guess. You still need str to Hit. Well this depends on the kind of gear the char has and which difficulty you play most. Something like 14 - 14 - 16 - 8 - 8 -16 would probably be most effective from 1-20. With good twink gear you could also go 10 - 14 - 15 - 8 - 8 -18 .

Well on the other hand I never levelled a char w/o PA and you might hit fine even with a low str. I am really not sure about this one.

I think he is rallying for dex to hit and damage.

I would swap maximize for heighten. Since you aren't aiming for EE, your heals and dps should be fine, but you will want some decent CC DC's. I think.

N-0cturn
06-17-2014, 02:02 PM
I think he is rallying for dex to hit and damage.

I would swap maximize for heighten. Since you aren't aiming for EE, your heals and dps should be fine, but you will want some decent CC DC's. I think.

Hm Finesse is not in the Feat list and the focus seems to be on Cha.

Some things I missed:


I am unsure of why CThru's build takes Perfect TWF though.
PTWF gives 5% doublestrike for the mainhand. This also applies to THF and SWF. I am not sure if this is working as intended but it does.


Is the Shout series of spells more about stunning rather than damage so I should drop Maximize? Can I not really combine melee and spell casting? That would be sad!

Shout and greater Shout are simply horrible. They are not about stunning since they only daze the enemy (also evocation/fort save means that even on EH it will be hard to get a working DC) and the damage does not scale with level. Currently the only use for Maximize on a bard is to amplify the Cure spells. Since everyone heals himself and most people no longer use the mass cures regularly it is not as popular as it once was.

However the Devs are talking about changes to the Spellsinger and Warchanter trees and they want to give some kind of DPS casting/SLAs to Spellsinger. Depending on how that works out and if metas will apply maximize might become more useful in the near future.


Can I not really combine melee and spell casting? That would be sad!

This depends on the type of casting:

Compatibility of spellcasting with melee:

Buffs - not a problem

Healing - works fine: minor investment necessary since it works best with a few points more in Cha and some Feats: Quicken, Empower Healing/Maximize - it always depends on how much healing you think you need.

CC - difficult: To get a high DC/Spell Pen you need a lot of feats which you simply cannot afford, although if you max Charisma and take one or two Feats the DC would probably be enough for EH. Spell Penetration would still be an issue in some content though. I am not sure if it is worth it, since you would still have to gear for it and probably take a T2 Twist from Magister. After all you will always have Fascinate as well.
During Heroics it depends on the difficulty. If you are on a Elite BB Streak I would not bother to much with Spell CC. On normal it will probably work just with max Cha.

DPS - Impossible since bards have no damage spells that are worth a penny.

ThomasHunter
06-17-2014, 09:24 PM
Alright, that was really good information about Shout and its ilk. Heh.

I'll drop Maximize and instead, move up GSWF to 15 and take Shield Mastery at 18. Maybe switch those two?

CThruTheEgo
06-19-2014, 08:19 AM
I'd agree with most of the other feedback.

You don't need int and I'd spend those points elsewhere. The important skills are perform, UMD, heal, balance (which you don't even have to max but is worth doing on a melee imo), and concentration (not even neccesary if you're going to take quicken). Dependng on your gear, you may want some points into jump but it doesn't need to be maxed. If you've got an int tome already, then you'll have some points to spend in haggle, bluff, diplo, or whatever you want, none of which need to be maxed.

The sonic spells are not good for damage, but maximize is good for the cure spells, although since your goal is EH you'd be fine with empower heal or no metas at all. Quicken is the most valuable metamagic for self healing anyway.

Cha based with spell focus enchantment and magister's enchantment specialist twisted would give you solid CC DCs for EH, but you will have problems with spell pen (which isn't a big deal imo, you just have to know your mobs and when not to bother with CC spells).

Since you'll have the haste spell, with or without extend I wouldn't bother taking blinding speed. Feats are a valuable resource and you have other means at your disposal for the same effect.

I would definitely take gwsf at level 15 as soon as it becomes available.

And if you want to maximize both your offense and defense, then I'd try to fit in the shield mastery feats. Since there's no good heroic buckler options (unless you happen to have the heroic versions of the crystal cove buckler) it's fine to put these feats off until epic levels. Epic Swashbuckler (from Crystal Cove) is available at level 20 and Kobold Admiral's Tiller (new buckler from E3BC) is available at level 24.

Chimeran1
06-21-2014, 05:19 AM
Just some thoughts:

Feats:

I think dropping Force of personality for HElf Pally Dil is not a bad change.
However you also dropped Quicken, which helps you a lot to stay alive. Maximize is a good choice because I find Self Heals a bit lacking without it.

Stats:

I am not sure why you changed them the way you did. Why do you need 12 int? Usually I don't have too few skill points on a pure bard.

Also 9 Str could be a bit annoying to level I guess. You still need str to Hit. Well this depends on the kind of gear the char has and which difficulty you play most. Something like 14 - 14 - 16 - 8 - 8 -16 would probably be most effective from 1-20. With good twink gear you could also go 10 - 14 - 15 - 8 - 8 -18 .

Well on the other hand I never levelled a char w/o PA and you might hit fine even with a low str. I am really not sure about this one.

You don't need quicken.
This build with gear could do EE no sweat.

Chimeran1
06-21-2014, 05:29 AM
Alright, that was really good information about Shout and its ilk. Heh.

I'll drop Maximize and instead, move up GSWF to 15 and take Shield Mastery at 18. Maybe switch those two?

Buffs, fascinate, and your swash coupe de grace.
Whisper chain armor
Protector of kings rapier and you can do any EE you want.
Charisma build max all the way.
Every group I've been with so far just smash through EE content.
They want bards for the buffs, not CC
I love it, I've even been told its cool to pike, cause I'm a bard.... Man hell yeah $&@! The CC 40 past life bs. :)

painkiller3
07-14-2014, 12:31 PM
...
Since you'll have the haste spell, with or without extend I wouldn't bother taking blinding speed.
...



do they stack (not necessarily for a swashbuckler, but let's say i wanted a barbarian SWF :) )

CThruTheEgo
07-14-2014, 02:07 PM
do they stack (not necessarily for a swashbuckler, but let's say i wanted a barbarian SWF :) )

No, haste and blinding speed do not stack. They do stack with the increased attack speed from SWF though.