PDA

View Full Version : xp shrines - the old system, the new system and change management



slarden
06-07-2014, 09:55 PM
So a 5% xp shrine used to be available for plat if you were a high enough guild level.

Under the new system it will be available for AS only or as a rare drop.

The nerdrage is highly predictable and justifiable. Turbine, you should really continue to offer the old x% xp shrines in the cargo hold for the foreseeable future. Secondly if you make the new xp shrines better (meaning a higher %) you can do this and still sell plenty of the new shrines. How about going up to 8%. Lower the price some and raise the # of tiers from 5 to 8 and make it so the total cost of all 8 tiers is slightly less than the 5 tiers is now. Or lower the cost of the 5 tiers and add 3 tiers to a future release.

The forced conversion idea just won't work.

rosedarkthorn
06-07-2014, 10:30 PM
I can certainly live without a 5% boost in xp if they're going to expect my guild (which includes myself, my husband and one other player whom would never spend TP on AS) to pay 1500 AS for it. Unless it's lowered considerably, I won't bother buying it. I'd like to have the Grand Reliquary, but 1100 AS to finish upgrading it is a bit much, so I would hope they drop the upgradeable tiers in quests too.

There are several others I will want to get - Banquet Hall, Orien Express, Farshifter's Chambers, and Sellsword's Tavern - but I wouldn't mind if they dropped in price either; especially the Sellsword's Tavern which sits at 150 AS. That is still too much. Hopefully I can find it in a quest or on the AH.

The xp shrine, Otto's Irresistible Dancehall, Cannith Crafting Hall, Danger Room, Forbidden Library, and Throne Room? Forget it. They aren't worth what they're priced to me personally.

Qhualor
06-07-2014, 11:54 PM
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee33/Valium_Bash/Gary-Coleman.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Valium_Bash/media/Gary-Coleman.jpg.html)

Mryal
06-08-2014, 01:44 PM
I can certainly live without a 5% boost in xp if they're going to expect my guild (which includes myself, my husband and one other player whom would never spend TP on AS) to pay 1500 AS for it. Unless it's lowered considerably, I won't bother buying it. I'd like to have the Grand Reliquary, but 1100 AS to finish upgrading it is a bit much, so I would hope they drop the upgradeable tiers in quests too.

There are several others I will want to get - Banquet Hall, Orien Express, Farshifter's Chambers, and Sellsword's Tavern - but I wouldn't mind if they dropped in price either; especially the Sellsword's Tavern which sits at 150 AS. That is still too much. Hopefully I can find it in a quest or on the AH.

The xp shrine, Otto's Irresistible Dancehall, Cannith Crafting Hall, Danger Room, Forbidden Library, and Throne Room? Forget it. They aren't worth what they're priced to me personally.

Indeed.no XP shrine for us. even thought we have like 10 active members.While this absurd price may seem 'ok' for a guild with 50 members...in my server the majority of guilds have like 5-15 members.I've been defending this update since the start.I've been liking all the new changes, and involved into heated arguments against many saying that SWF should be nerfed.All for what? I almost feel like im beign robbed with this prices lol.Oh well.Turbine is turbine.
You know, they could have done a lot better.They could have just let all amenites be plat, and introduce a ton of cosmetic customizations for ships for AS.It was better when the P2W with ridiculous prices was optional.I dont mind that.
But what having to pay a ****load of money for something i alredy have now, because turbine will take it away? Thats not right.Not right at all.

Franke
06-08-2014, 02:47 PM
Agreed, my current guild consists of 3 friends, 2 of us are active and the other dips in occasionally. Still, I'm quite used to little by way of shipbuffs already, so I guess little will change in that respect. ;)

Lagin
06-08-2014, 02:53 PM
As much as I would like to agree with this. bumping it up to 8% would conflict with current in-store items.

But the principle or keeping them in the hold is a good one.

/signed for keeping them as is

EllisDee37
06-08-2014, 03:42 PM
bumping it up to 8% would conflict with current in-store items.How so?

Lagin
06-08-2014, 03:48 PM
How so?

I forgot this... :rolleyes:

slarden
06-08-2014, 05:54 PM
I believe Turbine should ensure the new system doesn't invalidate previously earned rewards, e.g., the right to buy 5% shrines for Plat. As I look at the existing AS Shrines, here is what I see

AS Shrines that invalidate previously earned rewards
---------------------------------------------------
5% XP Shrine (and all xp shrines really): 1510 AS
Farshifter's chambers: 90 AS
The Orien Express: 60 AS
Banquet Hall (only to the extent of providing tavern regen on top deck): 75 AS

AS Shrines that are new, completely optional and don't invalidate previously earned rewards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forbidden Library: 195 AS
Danger Room: 180 AS
Otto's Irresistable Dance Hall: 180 AS
Throne Room: 180AS
Sellsword's Tavern: 150 AS
Grand Relinq: Forgot to write down cost, but redundant with small shrines available for plat

I see several shrines available for plat that are new and can be substituted as AS shrines
instead of the 4 shrines that are the same or similar to guild rewards previously earned.
A few examples (it's quite possible some of these were in old buffs and forgot)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hag's Apothecary
Ninja's Assassin
Fencing Master
Game Hunter
Bash the Breakables
Chronoscope
Black Abbot's Shadow
Three Finger Thad's

How about making XP shrine, farshifter, Orien Express and Banquet Hall available for Plat and some of the above shrines for AS instead of invalidating previously earned rewards. If you want to sell XP shrines, make a tier 6, 7, 8 and that are AS only or rare drops. It's xp people will buy those .... or just make an alternative XP shrine available for AS only that is a little better.

As for ships, I don't see any of the upgrades as necessary and the prices seem reasonable to me compared to the old prices. It took years for people to get the top tier ships under the old system so I don't see a problem if takes years to get the top ships under the new system. I do think an upgrade option from the plat ships should be available though - Turbine should to because they will sell more that way instead of guilds settling for the plat ships because they fall behind on the AS upgrades.

Cordovan
06-08-2014, 07:39 PM
All old amenities will remain available for now, as stated earlier, so feel free to continue to buy the old version xp shrine of your choice.

PsychoBlonde
06-08-2014, 07:47 PM
So a 5% xp shrine used to be available for plat if you were a high enough guild level.

Under the new system it will be available for AS only or as a rare drop.

The nerdrage is highly predictable and justifiable.

And stupid. Under the old system you had to KEEP BUYING the thing when it ran out. NOW you buy it ONCE and you have it FOREVER.

Hmm, which one is the better deal, I wonder . . .

Krelar
06-08-2014, 08:13 PM
And stupid. Under the old system you had to KEEP BUYING the thing when it ran out. NOW you buy it ONCE and you have it FOREVER.

Hmm, which one is the better deal, I wonder . . .

The one you spent plat on which is ridiculously easy to acquire?

Ovrad
06-08-2014, 09:40 PM
All old amenities will remain available for now, as stated earlier, so feel free to continue to buy the old version xp shrine of your choice.

Old shrines will remain available for "Some time".
New shrines will start dropping in chests in "Some time".

I'm sure you can understand how this ambiguity can exacerbate this whole situation.

EllisDee37
06-08-2014, 09:44 PM
And stupid. Under the old system you had to KEEP BUYING the thing when it ran out. NOW you buy it ONCE and you have it FOREVER.

Hmm, which one is the better deal, I wonder . . .How much plat is 1500 astral shards worth, in your opinion?

One YEAR of 5% xp shrines for plat costs ~50,000 plat. (Give or take, depending on haggle.)

You're saying it's a better deal to spend 1500 astral shards once than it is to spend ~50,000 plat per year. How many years does it take for your assertion to be true? 100? 1000?

slarden
06-08-2014, 11:14 PM
And stupid. Under the old system you had to KEEP BUYING the thing when it ran out. NOW you buy it ONCE and you have it FOREVER.

Hmm, which one is the better deal, I wonder . . .

It's the age old time vs. money decision. Each person has different circumstances and for many people plat by the month is more appealing because they aren't in a situation where they can obtain AS.

For me I'll gladly buy permanent buffs because it saves me time which I value more, but the system needs to work well for everyone.

To me the issue is that guilds earned the right to purchase certain things for plat through game play that was sometimes supplemented with real $. I don't think that progress should be erased. Cordovan responded that the old buffs will continue to be available which is definitely appreciated. I hope the ones that are replaced with AS-only buffs are available for a good long time so people don't feel their guild rewards were taken away.

Me personally. I am an extremely lazy man that built his entire career around laziness and trying to find an easier way to do things. It's served me well. I am buying the buffs that work with the big button because I want to spend as little time as possible buffing and restocking. I am who I am. I just want to push the big button and be done with buffing.

patang01
06-09-2014, 09:07 AM
How much plat is 1500 astral shards worth, in your opinion?

One YEAR of 5% xp shrines for plat costs ~50,000 plat. (Give or take, depending on haggle.)

You're saying it's a better deal to spend 1500 astral shards once than it is to spend ~50,000 plat per year. How many years does it take for your assertion to be true? 100? 1000?

I agree, the cost of these shrines are way out of proportion to the old cost; It takes me a few quests to crunch together 50k plat. Plonking 1500 shards down on something that is 'permanent' is a value proposition. And the value is way out of proportion to what it does.

Seikojin
06-09-2014, 10:31 AM
Don't the old and new stack (since the old buffs aren't guild typed bonuses)?

Derana
06-09-2014, 10:37 AM
And stupid. Under the old system you had to KEEP BUYING the thing when it ran out. NOW you buy it ONCE and you have it FOREVER.

Hmm, which one is the better deal, I wonder . . .

LOL, it takes me less than 1 day of playing to earn the plat to finance 5 weeks of 5% exp shrine... I don't wanna spend 90 Euro for a 5% permanent xp shrine. We worked our way to 92 to buy the shrine for plat and now it will be taken away sooner or later because Turbine found a new way to make me spend money on this game? No thank you.

Make a 6% xp shrine for astral shards and I would probably pay that. Take away the free 5% version and replace it with a pay to play 5% version, risk an outrage, and many people won't pay anything at all. I really wonder who makes these decisions... Surely not somebody who studied business/marketing. You could introduce a 7% exp shrine for 1500 shards... and people would pay that, probably without complaining because it's an additional update, but no, it must be this silly, lazy way of just turning a 5% plat shrine into a 5% astral shard shrine WITHOUT ANY KIND OF ALTERNATIVE TO PAY WITH PLAT.

slarden
06-09-2014, 10:47 AM
Don't the old and new stack (since the old buffs aren't guild typed bonuses)?

Most, but I don't believe XP stacks.

EllisDee37
06-09-2014, 12:58 PM
Don't the old and new stack (since the old buffs aren't guild typed bonuses)?They do not. The old amenities are being changed to guild type specifically so that they won't stack with the new ones.

Portalcat
06-09-2014, 01:33 PM
Once upon a time, X was easy. It may or may not have been intentional that X was easy, but since it was, I am entitled to X being easy forever!

jalont
06-09-2014, 01:38 PM
LOL, it takes me less than 1 day of playing to earn the plat to finance 5 weeks of 5% exp shrine... I don't wanna spend 90 Euro for a 5% permanent xp shrine. We worked our way to 92 to buy the shrine for plat and now it will be taken away sooner or later because Turbine found a new way to make me spend money on this game? No thank you.

Make a 6% xp shrine for astral shards and I would probably pay that. Take away the free 5% version and replace it with a pay to play 5% version, risk an outrage, and many people won't pay anything at all. I really wonder who makes these decisions... Surely not somebody who studied business/marketing. You could introduce a 7% exp shrine for 1500 shards... and people would pay that, probably without complaining because it's an additional update, but no, it must be this silly, lazy way of just turning a 5% plat shrine into a 5% astral shard shrine WITHOUT ANY KIND OF ALTERNATIVE TO PAY WITH PLAT.

The handwraps from Catacombs sell for 100 Shards all day, everyday. At your stated rate, it would take you less time to farm and sell enough for a permanent 5 percent shrine than it would to farm the plat.

Derana
06-09-2014, 02:05 PM
The handwraps from Catacombs sell for 100 Shards all day, everyday. At your stated rate, it would take you less time to farm and sell enough for a permanent 5 percent shrine than it would to farm the plat.

It's not about having enough shards. My point is that we have unlocked this shrine on our ship (level 100 guild, lvl 85 ship) for plat just like I unlocked Favored Soul, Drow and Artificer with favor. I don't understand why the exp shrines are taken away from me (and my guild) even though we have unlocked and therefore "earned" it.

I don't mind paying shards for 6, 7, 8% xp shrines but I think it is highly unfair, in fact betrayal, to make me pay for something that I unlocked in the game already - just because of some fancy update.

StoddardSolomon
06-09-2014, 06:48 PM
I demand to know the prices this is absurd ! Should I buy a bolt now or wait for the update and get a Falcon and get bigger discount on Tempest ? How will the prices and discount system work ? Are the current laman prices official ? Why nobody answer this !?

PsychoBlonde
06-09-2014, 09:27 PM
I agree, the cost of these shrines are way out of proportion to the old cost; It takes me a few quests to crunch together 50k plat. Plonking 1500 shards down on something that is 'permanent' is a value proposition. And the value is way out of proportion to what it does.

So don't buy it. Heck, I don't even put my Voice of the Master on most of the time.

Will the shrines that drop in chests be bound, or will you be able to sell them on the AH? They'd make good saga rewards, that's for sure.

slarden
06-09-2014, 09:28 PM
I demand to know the prices this is absurd ! Should I buy a bolt now or wait for the update and get a Falcon and get bigger discount on Tempest ? How will the prices and discount system work ? Are the current laman prices official ? Why nobody answer this !?

What level are you now and what ship do you currently have?

StoddardSolomon
06-09-2014, 09:52 PM
What level are you now and what ship do you currently have?

49 we would have gotten 55 long ago but sagas are off

So now I got buy a bolt...then upgrade to tempest...with the current lam prices thats 1.650 AS while if sagas were ok we could get a tempest right now for 1.1k

So I'm bleeding around 550 AS for nothing...such ******** ! !

slarden
06-10-2014, 07:58 AM
49 we would have gotten 55 long ago but sagas are off

So now I got buy a bolt...then upgrade to tempest...with the current lam prices thats 1.650 AS while if sagas were ok we could get a tempest right now for 1.1k

So I'm bleeding around 550 AS for nothing...such ******** ! !

So you don't currently have the bolt? Buy it today for 600 AS. Then wait and buy the Tempest tomorrow for 650. Yes, you are paying 250 AS more, but you get the next ship for 1000 AS less when you are ready to buy it.

So yeah, kind of sux you couldn't get 55 before the release, but the next ship tier will be easier for you. At least the typhoon will cost 1000 less so you are ultimately saving 750AS without having to buy the plat ships.

Thrudh
06-10-2014, 08:25 AM
They could probably keep selling the cargo hold exp shrine forever (maybe raise the plat cost)... The fact that the new exp shrine lasts hours longer and doesn't reset on death and you don't have to run down to the cargo hold to get it will still make it very attractive to many guilds.

StoddardSolomon
06-10-2014, 03:24 PM
So you don't currently have the bolt? Buy it today for 600 AS. Then wait and buy the Tempest tomorrow for 650. Yes, you are paying 250 AS more, but you get the next ship for 1000 AS less when you are ready to buy it.

So yeah, kind of sux you couldn't get 55 before the release, but the next ship tier will be easier for you. At least the typhoon will cost 1000 less so you are ultimately saving 750AS without having to buy the plat ships.

Ya all in all I guess I still come out on top

Anyway have fun =)