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CiaoBoy
06-04-2014, 07:08 AM
Can I get some feedback on this build? Taking advantage of Cormyrean Knight Training to apply cha modifier as melee attack bonus and damage bonus in lieu of str, I use str as a complete dump stat, and I max out cha instead. Taking advantage of Force of Personality to apply cha modifier for will saving throws, I use wis as a complete dump stat. Dex is a complete dump stat. Int is almost a complete dump stat, assigning just enough int to get the skills that I want. So I max out cha with con as a second most important ability score for HP and fortitude saves. Essentially this is a build with 2 main abilities and 4 dump stats.

Reflex saves suffer due to low dex, but since this char doesn't have evasion anyway, it's not as great of a loss as if I had evasion and made it sucky with low reflex saves.

Without Warforged immunities, I choose enhancements that give immunities or increase saves to enchantments and such. FoM and Greater Heroism song effects cannot be dispelled. I also chose a bunch of enhancements in the spellsinger tree for offensive purposes, like crowd control.

Victory Song will increase BAB to a fighter's BAB to help with melee, but melee will pretty much be just free DPS.

Heal and Wail of the Banshee are provided by Spellsinger capstone.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

-CiaoBoy



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight Male
(20 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 428
Spell Points: 895
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 13
Will: 25

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 13
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 18 23
Intelligence 10 15
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 18 36

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 3 32
Bluff 8 44
Concentration 8 39
Diplomacy 8 44
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 4 21
Heal -1 9
Hide -1 9
Intimidate 4 21
Jump 3 32
Listen -1 9
Move Silently -1 9
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 8 46
Repair 0 10
Search 0 10
Spellcraft 0 27
Spot -1 9
Swim -1 9
Tumble n/a 10
Use Magic Device 8 44

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Human Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Penetration


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Adaptability: Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Cormyrean Knight Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Virtuoso (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Maestro of Life and Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Yellow Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Reviving Verse (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Reviving Verse (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Reviving Verse (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Raucous Refrain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Raucous Refrain (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Raucous Refrain (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Capering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Frolic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Victory Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Boast (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Boast (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Boast (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Ironskin Chant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Ironskin Chant (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Ironskin Chant (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspire Recklessness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspire Recklessness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspire Recklessness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - High Spirits (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - High Spirits (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - High Spirits (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)

giftie
06-04-2014, 07:44 AM
Looks good for what you're trying to do.

Too much emphasis on melee feats for my taste - I'd try to squeeze in at least Heighten and SF: Enchantment for +6 DC. Seems a shame not to, if you're going max CHA and can reach usable DCs for EE. And with a Thunder Forged greatsword you can (~65). I'd drop Ruin and Force of Personality for those. You might end up missing other meta-magics (especially Quicken, but I like Extend and Empower Healing), but you'll probably be fine without them.

Personally, I'd say there's room for improvement in your enhancements, I'd imagine once U22 lands you'd benefit from shuffling some points from WC to SB even without swashbuckling.


Victory Song will increase BAB to a fighter's BAB to help with melee.

Victory Song resets on every rest and dungeon entry. It's a pain to remember to keep up - especially since graphic is slightly bugged, but easier if you're slotting Reign from Fatesinger I guess. I rarely use it myself.

EDIT: completely missed you had taken Greatsword proficiency feat. As unbongwah says, there's absolutely no need with access to Master's touch.

unbongwah
06-04-2014, 08:56 AM
You may wish to wait until Swashbuckler goes live; that should have some interesting synergies for CHA-based PDK bards. Plus you'll gain Evasion, if you can figure out how to boost your Reflex saves high enough to be useful. Drawback would be you can't take both THF and SWF feats, but Swashbuckling only works with Finesseable weapons, which don't get glancing blows, so it's not really a loss.

If you do go ahead with this build, skip GS prof and just cast Master's Touch; that frees a feat. And move IC:Slash to lvl 12 or 15; that will be a bigger boost to melee DPS than THF.

CiaoBoy
06-04-2014, 12:41 PM
Many good suggestions that I agree with. Rather than focus on melee prowess, will focus more on enchantment prowess. Melee will simply be free DPS. I've updated the original post with the following changes.

Definitely need Quickened Heal for EE content, so added Quicken in. Added in Empower Healing as well. Took out Greatsword proficiency since Master's Touch will provide proficiency with whatever simple or martial weapon I wield, as you guys have mentioned. Added Spell Focus feats for Enchantment, because with maxed CHA, the DCs ought to be high enough to be effective in EE content. Also added in Spell Penetration feats because the enchantment spells need to overcome Spell Resistance. Didn't put in Extend because with maxed CHA, I ought to have plenty of SP to re-cast buffs. Plus, my songs have longer durations with some of the feats and enhancements that I chose and bardic song usage will regenerate 1 song every 5 minutes with Virtuoso. Rather use that feat slot for something else and I had no room for Extend. Added in Heighten to make my enchantment spells more effective. Took out Ruin and put in Hellball, since it can be CHA-based.

Took out Improved Critical: Slashing, because I wanted to focus more on having effective DCs in EE content and less on melee. Some mobs are immune crit anyway.

Took out all of the THF feats, so glancing blows will suffer, but that might even be a good thing because enchanted mobs will be out of the battle until they are damaged. Rather not have glancing blows to hit them and instead only hit one mob at a time. Also took out Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave for the same reason of hitting just one mob at a time. This will also free up all str points and make that a total dump stat, allowing more points to be put into con. Perhaps I shouldn't even use a greatsword and only use a one-handed weapon so that I don't produce any glancing blows.

I think in this build everything has been done to max out the effectiveness of his enchantments. Max cha, max DCs for Spell Focus: Enchantments, max Spell Penetration, and Heighten. If they are still ineffective in EE content, then something must be wrong with the game. :P

I kept Force of Personality in, because it seems such a waste to have all that cha and such low wis. It seems worthwhile to get decent Will saves. The last thing I want is to get enchanted myself and get killed in EE.

I haven't seen the Swashbuckler enhancements yet, but they do sound promising. I will definitely wait until U22 comes out before I commit to this bard build. If evasion becomes available, I am definitely going to add that in, provided that I can find a way to boost my reflex saves. Perhaps SB enhancements will also make more sense to get rid of a two-handed weapon and glancing blows and just go with a one-handed weapon.

Many thanks for the great suggestions! Keep them coming if you have more!

-CiaoBoy

giftie
06-04-2014, 05:54 PM
You might have gone too far in the other direction. =) Heighten and SF: Enchantment can be aquired by dropping Ruin and Proficiency feats. Beyond that it's just +1 DC/feat. I understand your interest in FoP, but you can keep all the melee goodies and still grab the only really important meta-magic (Quicken) by dropping it. Either way, I'd definitely keep two-handed in, since Thunder Forged two-handers get +1 DC over one-handed.

Your first build was actually pretty similar to The One Bard build a few threads down, which I thought was pretty solid if you have the tomes and build points.

Keep in mind that evasion is the Swashbuckler capstone. You can't really afford to grab all the SS T5s and cores you'd want with that much spent in SB. And with CHA-to-damage available, at that point I'd just drop PDK and go Drow for the racial CHA and enchantment DC.

I think PDKs will still make better Spellsinger/melee hybrids than Drow but for dedicated healer/casters and Swashbucklers, Drow is arguably the better choice.