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View Full Version : PDK squash buckler with evasion- feedback please



Opensezame
05-20-2014, 07:59 AM
So, I have been playing with squash buckler builds and the below is the best I can seem to make. Let me know what you think. The screen shots are totally unbuffed. I was thinking of pre-making the build by using two weapon fighting line and then switching in single weapon fighting line once launched. I decided PDK for the 6 fighter and extra healing amp. The 6 fighter is purely for the extra feats and to-hit.

THE PERFORM SKILL IS ALSO YOUR STUN AND INSTA KILL DC
CHARISMA IS WEAPON DMG MODIFIER

(btw I messed up my skill points and ended up with .5 on perform. If you follow the build it should be right)

===========================================
Third life PDK squash buckler: 12 bard/6 fighter/2 rogue
+4 supreme tome in previous life

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Level 1: fighter

Starting Stats:
8/16/16/8/8/18

Skill points:
4 balance / 4 perform

Feats:
Dodge / Precision / weapon finesse
----------------------------------------

Level 2: Fighter

Skill points:

1 Balance / 1 perform

Feats:
Single Weapon fighting
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Level 3: Fighter

Skill Points:
1 Balance / 1 Perform

Feats:
Force of personality
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Level 4: Fighter

Stat point:
Charisma

Skill Points:
1 Balance / 1 Perform

Feats:
Mobility
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Level 5: fighter

Skill Points:
1 Balance / 1 Perform
-----------------------------------------------

Level 6: Fighter

Skill Points:
2 tumble

Feats:
Improved single weapon fighting / Spring attack
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Level 7: Rogue

Skill Points:
2 perform / 2 balance / 5 UMD
-----------------------------------------------

Level 8: Rogue (evasion auto granted)

Stat point:
Charisma

Skill Points:
5 balance / 4 UMD
-----------------------------------------------

Level 9: bard

Skill Points:
6 perform / 1 balance

Feats:
Empower Heal
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Level 10: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 2 perform/ 4 UMD
----------------------------------------------

Level 11: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 4 heal
----------------------------------------------

Level 12: Bard

Stat point:
Charisma

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 4 heal

Feats:
Improved critical Piercing weapons
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Level 13: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 4 heal
----------------------------------------------

Level 14: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 4 heal
----------------------------------------------

Level 15: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 2 heal/ 3 tumble

Feats:
Greater single weapon fighting
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Level 16: Bard

Stat point:
Charisma

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 1 heal/ 4 tumble
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Level 17: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 1 heal/ 4 tumble
----------------------------------------------

Level 18: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 1 heal/ 4 tumble

Feats:
Extend
----------------------------------------------

Level 19: Bard

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 1 heal/ 4 tumble
----------------------------------------------

Level 20: Bard

Stat point:
Charisma

Skill Points:
1 Balance/ 1 perform/ 1 UMD/ 3 tumble/ 2 haggle
---------------------------------------------

Level 21: Epic

Feat: Skill focus Perform
---------------------------------------------

Level 22: Epic
---------------------------------------------

Level 23: Epic
---------------------------------------------

Level 24: Epic

Stat point:
Charisma

Feats:
Bulwark of defence
---------------------------------------------

Level 25: Epic
---------------------------------------------

Level 26: Epic

Feats:
Epic focus perform
---------------------------------------------

Level 27: Epic

Feats:
Epic reflexes
---------------------------------------------

Level 28: Epic

Stat point:
Charisma

Feats:
Elusive target

http://s18.postimg.org/8ic4jxw6t/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/8ic4jxw6t/)

http://s27.postimg.org/drtnp1rpb/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/drtnp1rpb/)

http://s4.postimg.org/kom7ns82h/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/kom7ns82h/)

Opensezame
05-20-2014, 08:01 AM
Additionally... I am not wearing a perform item on the toon

Theolin
05-20-2014, 09:05 AM
silly me missed the PDK thing .. so
I would think about putting rogue at level 2 to open up the full advancement on skills or consider Bard at level 2 so you can get full advancement on perform as well.

Caveat, feats could easily mess that up though, if they have to be done a certain way.
And I am not sure a UMD of over 50 is needed, cannot think of anything that is that high anyway, but could be wrong.

ArcaneArcher52689
05-20-2014, 09:18 AM
silly me missed the PDK thing .. so
I would think about putting rogue at level 2 to open up the full advancement on skills or consider Bard at level 2 so you can get full advancement on perform as well.

Caveat, feats could easily mess that up though, if they have to be done a certain way.
And I am not sure a UMD of over 50 is needed, cannot think of anything that is that high anyway, but could be wrong.

He probably doesn't want to waste the money. Costs a +1 heart to take rogue @1. Might be worth it if he wanted to eliminate fighter levels, but I personally don't think skill points are worth $11.


As for the build, I like it. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with builds for swashbuckling and SWF.

however, I think you're giving up a lot in enhancements:

For warchanter:
12 AP gets you
10 hp
3 attack
3 songs
6 armor
6 PRR
Greater heroism song
30 temp hp when using IC
12 positive spell power

Opensezame
05-20-2014, 12:17 PM
He probably doesn't want to waste the money. Costs a +1 heart to take rogue @1. Might be worth it if he wanted to eliminate fighter levels, but I personally don't think skill points are worth $11.


As for the build, I like it. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with builds for swashbuckling and SWF.

however, I think you're giving up a lot in enhancements:

For warchanter:
12 AP gets you
10 hp
3 attack
3 songs
6 armor
6 PRR
Greater heroism song
30 temp hp when using IC
12 positive spell power

I get what you mean... I decided being able to fascinate any type of mob was probably worth a little more than what was in the war chanter tree. I suppose it's just down to preference. I like the 6 fighter lvls purely because I finish with all of the feats I wanted. However, the order you take the lvls other than lvl 1(I'm not paying for a +1 heart of wood) is entirely up to you. I did it this way simply because i am less likely to make a mistake!

Opensezame
05-20-2014, 12:28 PM
And I am not sure a UMD of over 50 is needed, cannot think of anything that is that high anyway, but could be wrong.

Ability to use scrolls if you have been neg lvld etc???

N-0cturn
05-20-2014, 01:13 PM
I would not take 6 fighter. You take Spring attack and Mobility, which result in 4% Dodge. If you would take only 2 levels fighter and 16 Bard you would loose those 2 Feats and 1 Point BAB, but you would get Inspire Heroism which also gives you 4% Dodge in addition to lvl 5 and 6 Spells and more/stronger Songs.

I am also not sure why you took Weapon Finesse. My main reason to go Purple Dragon Knight would be that it gives Cha to-Hit with Short Swords. If you plan on using Rapiers with Finesse then I would go regular Human or Drow. But that might be just me, because I need a really good reason to convince myself to play PDK or HElf.

On a Cha-based Bard I currently see no reason to multi-class, if you do not have a specific goal

I would drop:
Spring Attack, Mobility --> you loose 4% Dodge and get 4% back because of Inspire Heroism
Extend: The loss in duration is not that great since you have 20 level bard instead of 12

Epic focus perform - On a max Cha bards you will never have any issue with the height of you Perform Skill

Bulwark of defence: The save bonus is nice but feats are limited
Force of personality: same as above

Instead I would take: Quicken and Inspire Excellence

Feats: Dodge, Precision, weapon finesse, SWF, iSWF, gSWF, Quicken, Empower Heal and Inspire Excellence

EDIt: Forgot to list improved Critical, lvl 27 Feat is not listed as well

I am not sure yet which feat to leave out on a Drow Bard. Probably Weapon Finesse.

zaphear
05-20-2014, 01:20 PM
I'd personally go Strength based and get some Divine Might action going on. You'll have way higher Strength in the end. Yeah Charisma is your Skill stat, but seriously do you really need that extra +5 with Perform? Isn't it fairly easy to get it above 100 as it is.

unbongwah
05-20-2014, 01:47 PM
squash buckler
http://www.rightathome.com/Designing/Crafts/PublishingImages/PirateSquashBucklers/yf_craft_groupART_HEAD.jpg

ARRRR, avast ye squashy mateys!

Opensezame
05-20-2014, 02:11 PM
I am also not sure why you took Weapon Finesse. My main reason to go Purple Dragon Knight would be that it gives Cha to-Hit with Short Swords. If you plan on using Rapiers with Finesse then I would go regular Human or Drow. But that might be just me, because I need a really good reason to convince myself to play PDK or HElf. .

I don't like short swords, and the damage is higher on rapiers... the charisma modifier is for the dmg on squashbuckler not the to-hit, and this is why I use weapon finesse. I like the healing amp for PDK, and the fact I don't have to do lvls 1-15

Additionally I like improve crit pierce, which u don't seem to have in your build, and I prefer to be stronger unbuffed than have circumstantial bonuses which is why I prefer the feats

Opensezame
05-20-2014, 04:53 PM
http://www.rightathome.com/Designing/Crafts/PublishingImages/PirateSquashBucklers/yf_craft_groupART_HEAD.jpg

ARRRR, avast ye squashy mateys!

Yeh squash buckler... I know it should be swash I just prefer it lol

Squish'em 'n' squash'em

N-0cturn
05-20-2014, 06:21 PM
I don't like short swords, and the damage is higher on rapiers... the charisma modifier is for the dmg on squashbuckler not the to-hit, and this is why I use weapon finesse. I like the healing amp for PDK, and the fact I don't have to do lvls 1-15

Additionally I like improve crit pierce, which u don't seem to have in your build, and I prefer to be stronger unbuffed than have circumstantial bonuses which is why I prefer the feats

Ah right I forgot to list improved Critical. However it is calculated into the Feats (I only listed 9, although it would have been 10 for a Human (I exclude the lvl 27)).

If you prefer better stats unbuffed that your choice, but bard might not be the optimal class in this case. Buffing themselves and other is one of the really strong points about a bard. It's not like the songs can be dispelled you just have to sing every few minutes.

Opensezame
05-21-2014, 01:49 AM
I just prefer to be stronger in the first place. The GH song is nice, but you can cast it individually on scrolls... And that goes for any scroll of a spell I don't have. Additionally I still have 20 songs... And the songs that come with a lvl 12 bard.

Loriac
05-21-2014, 03:07 AM
I was looking at the same class split for when u22 hits. My thoughts are that with 6 fighter, and the ability to use a buckler while swashbuckling with bard levels, it almost seems a crime not to invest in the stalwart defender tree. I'd go with human, make it str based, and with the following approximate investments in ap:

Swashbuckler - 39ap (I think that this gets all the good tier 5 except for exploit weakness which I'm not really convinced by)
Stalwart defender - 24 ap (+15PRR/+3 saves from the basic stance, +20%hp/+6Str from the improved stance)
Kensai - 10ap (extra action boost III, haste boost III)
Human - 3ap (damage boost, improved recovery)
Spare 4ap, probably goes into extra songs or extra duration on songs

Weapons would be whatever is your highest dps in the swashbuckling category (I quite like the look of the sun blade type weapons, as you get a better weapon die and slashing damage, but ymmv).

Edit: feats would include shield mastery and improved shield mastery for the bonuses to PRR and doublestrike. You could also twist in the 2nd tier unyielding sentinel ability to increase standing doublestrike to around 18 before other bonuses/action boosts.

legendkilleroll
05-21-2014, 06:37 AM
I was looking at the same class split for when u22 hits. My thoughts are that with 6 fighter, and the ability to use a buckler while swashbuckling with bard levels, it almost seems a crime not to invest in the stalwart defender tree. I'd go with human, make it str based, and with the following approximate investments in ap:

Swashbuckler - 39ap (I think that this gets all the good tier 5 except for exploit weakness which I'm not really convinced by)
Stalwart defender - 24 ap (+15PRR/+3 saves from the basic stance, +20%hp/+6Str from the improved stance)
Kensai - 10ap (extra action boost III, haste boost III)
Human - 3ap (damage boost, improved recovery)
Spare 4ap, probably goes into extra songs or extra duration on songs

Weapons would be whatever is your highest dps in the swashbuckling category (I quite like the look of the sun blade type weapons, as you get a better weapon die and slashing damage, but ymmv).

Edit: feats would include shield mastery and improved shield mastery for the bonuses to PRR and doublestrike. You could also twist in the 2nd tier unyielding sentinel ability to increase standing doublestrike to around 18 before other bonuses/action boosts.


Swashbuckling is described as defensive stance and cant be active with stalwart stance

Loriac
05-21-2014, 06:40 AM
Swashbuckling is described as defensive stance and cant be active with stalwart stance

Ah, I didn't realise that. Thanks for the heads up, that changes the subset of builds I will consider for u22.

N-0cturn
05-21-2014, 09:13 AM
Swashbuckler - 39ap (I think that this gets all the good tier 5 except for exploit weakness which I'm not really convinced by)


I had the same feeling when I saw the feat. Then I started testing it at the kobolds in the Dojo and noticed 2 things:
- I frequently got crits because of exploit weaknesses which would have otherwise have been regular hits
- It stacks with improved critical, so for every regular hit you get stacking +10% crit chance until you get a critical hit.

Its very strong. In my opinion it is only a little bit worse that Keen Edge from Kensai.

unbongwah
05-21-2014, 09:40 AM
Yeh squash buckler... I know it should be swash I just prefer it lol

Squish'em 'n' squash'em
I just love that I was able to put "squash buckler" into GIS and that was like the 1st or 2nd image. I thought, "Okay, there must be someone who decorated a butternut or something like a pirate and posted a picture of it with that pun!" Fortunately, I was right. :)

Chimeran1
06-12-2014, 04:51 AM
I've seen videos of this build, it's very good.
Fascinate EE mobs and solo all day, yes thanks.
Out of a huge huge list of possible TR's I have decided to go with your build.
Thank you and please and updates you feel necessary for U22 please post and keep me up to date.

Thanks again.

Chimeran1
06-12-2014, 05:34 AM
Do you have a spell list for noobs like me that have never played bard before?

Also I found the skill points didn't work out, I maxed out heal quicker and ended up with 2 points left over in some levels. I just put them in diplo as the others were all maxed.

unbongwah
06-12-2014, 10:58 AM
Have you tested on live to see if you can have Swashbuckling + Stalwart defensive stance active simultaneously? I think they made that change on Lama, but I'm not certain. If so, you may want to rearrange APs so you pick up defensive stance. And I would also recommend adding Shield Mastery+ISM+Legendary SM, which will net you more doublestrike (15% vs 10%) and PRR than going empty-handed.

Chimeran1
06-14-2014, 03:01 AM
Currently level 17.
Damage with rapier crits 260-300, lots of crits.
Very fast attack speed, feels like monk.
Fascinate has worked on most elite content, sleep, sound burst not so much... Maybe my gear.
Songs are short at this level, 1 minute haste seems pointless, blur is nice, displace also nice but doesn't last very long.
Hit points 342 @ lvl 17
Saves are ok if you know where traps are, though always fails strength rolls in elite webs which is annoying.
You can spend 2 minutes just stuck in a web. ( all my gear is +5 )

thegreatneil
06-14-2014, 04:01 AM
Have you tested on live to see if you can have Swashbuckling + Stalwart defensive stance active simultaneously? I think they made that change on Lama, but I'm not certain. If so, you may want to rearrange APs so you pick up defensive stance. And I would also recommend adding Shield Mastery+ISM+Legendary SM, which will net you more doublestrike (15% vs 10%) and PRR than going empty-handed.

Yes they stack fine.

Chimeran1
06-14-2014, 03:59 PM
Yes they stack fine.

So how can this build be adapted to take advantage of this?
Stalwart defence could also add +3 to all saves, which this build seriously needs.
Means missing on a tier 5 though if going stalwart?

I won't need IC pierce because I have the level 23 caught in the web rapier.
What other feats can I drop without losing current dps to pick up shield feats?

Chimeran1
06-15-2014, 04:38 AM
Saves on this build are weak.
Constantly failing stun saves on quests at level.

I think a tactics description of how to play this build would help.
If all it relies on is fascinate , it's just not bringing enough to the table for me.
Can't get over how weak the saves are on this build.

thegreatneil
06-15-2014, 05:02 AM
Saves on this build are weak.
Constantly failing stun saves on quests at level.

I think a tactics description of how to play this build would help.
If all it relies on is fascinate , it's just not bringing enough to the table for me.
Can't get over how weak the saves are on this build.

Personally I use twists to shore up my fort save.
Sadly my bard plays better than any tank I have ever try to build.

Chimeran1
06-15-2014, 04:25 PM
Personally I use twists to shore up my fort save.
Sadly my bard plays better than any tank I have ever try to build.

This is my conclusion.
The build was fun, but after level 16 it never got any better.
I like builds that level consistently from 1-20, sadly this did not.
I think there is a serious lack of gear for Bards unless you have a bank full of Green steel.
Seemed most of the gear for a new bard was coming from the level 12-15 chains.

I found it hard going soloing elite content at 17-19 , Asane asylum is very difficult with saves from Mind flayers.

At level 20, a lot more gear becomes available and epic destinies ( sadly this build is weak without them)
At level 23 you get the Caught In The Web rapier.

I enjoyed the play style change for me and understand this is probably where the problems lie, between the chair and keyboard.

It's a nice social build, you have ok dps and some nice grp buffs.
As a solo build, I found swashbuckler damage peeks early and never gets any better,again just the games gear is poor until higher levels or that this build can't make use of any higher tiers until you finish the 12 levels of bard.
Perhaps look at the way the leveling is done and get the 12 bard levels earlier.
Crits stay at 160-190, or 200-270 on helpless ( this builds ideal play style )

Chimeran1
06-15-2014, 04:37 PM
Personally I use twists to shore up my fort save.
Sadly my bard plays better than any tank I have ever try to build.

Yes it needs epic destinies for sure.
Personally I prefer Bear form 8 druid/12 Monk as a soloing build/tank.
Just can't beat shadow veil and spam double strikes with 4-9k crits, massive hit points, AC, saves and damage reduction, once you learn the cleaves and alpha strike twitch plays.

Jhaeran
06-16-2014, 07:52 PM
So I find the concept of CHA+con and everything else being optional quite intriguing.

I've never played PDK, bard, or swashbuckler before so have a few questions. The lack of character planner SB enhancements makes it tough too.

I'm assuming shortswords to take advantage of Cormyrean Knight Training + swashbuckler - The PDK enhancement to use cha as both to-hit and damage. Also gaining bonus to tactical feats of 1/3 of Cha mod (probably somewhere between +4-6).

With that said I'm making the assumption that with a lower strength you'd really have to focus on your tactics for them to hit in EE/EH - not sure though. In your unbuffed example you have +6 from str and +6 from cha. Have you tried any tactics and are they landing consistently?

Have you had any additional thoughts on the Stalwart defender tree? Seems there's enough opinion both ways but nothing seems concrete.

From Chimeran1's comments saves seem a liability - for 6 or 7 AP it seems you can get +3 to all saving throws plus some other defensive benefits depending on how deep you go into the tree.

Are you in the midst of playing it now? How far along are you and how does it play? Chimeran1's focus seems solo, but seems like it did ok with heroics up to later levels. Any experience on epics yet?

Chimeran1
06-18-2014, 04:36 AM
Level 20+ this build is a lot of fun.

My advice to anyone wanting to try this build, is get all your 12 bard levels asap.
Once you get tier 5 swashbuckling damage bonus and the one shot kill ( slap in the face followed by coupe de grace), you will be smiling.

This build was a weak pain in the backside before that.
At level 20 you can invest in epic destinies for better saves, boost your Charisma, it just gets better and better.
Just finished a bunch of Epic Elite runs grouped in Evening star village, never struggled once. Kept the group alive, razed the zerger and fascinated the mobs, one shot killing when I wasn't scroll healing.

Constantly on the move, lots clickies, and fun.
Good fun build for epic solo and group play, just get those bards levels asap.

Gear to help in lower levels:
Crimson Chain - level 12 armor from Undermine
Storm singer cloak - level 13 from Assault on Summerfield
Turbulent Épée - level 14 named rapier from harbor chain ( sadly nothing better till 20 )
Sacrificial Dagger - level 20 Impossible Demands - OMG!!! You must get this.
Purple Dragon Knight Gauntlets - Eveningstar Village Com's.

Thing about bard, not much actual class gear, which is good because it lets you choose what sets for your play style.
You can go full Purple Dragon Knight set with Green Steel conc' opp bracers etc.
Level 23 - Caught in the Web rapier " Protector of the King "
Level 23 - 3 barrel epic area mitts and buckler ( if you use buckler )- I went empty hand for extra DPS.

Update:
Currently level 24, no twists yet as still grinding through level 3 paths to get to Fatesinger.
Can run EE content no problem.
Thunderholme is easy with fascinate.

Jhaeran
06-29-2014, 11:35 PM
So did you end up going with shortswords to get the +hit/+dam from Charisma via pdk knight training enhancement or did you punt on +hit and just go with rapiers and +dam via Cha from swashbuckler?

Ancient
06-30-2014, 04:20 PM
I found it hard going soloing elite content at 17-19 , Asane asylum is very difficult with saves from Mind flayers.

My advice to anyone wanting to try this build, is get all your 12 bard levels asap.
Once you get tier 5 swashbuckling damage bonus and the one shot kill ( slap in the face followed by coupe de grace), you will be smiling.

This build was a weak pain in the backside before that.

You have some great advice in your posts, but I can't agree with the build being weak late teens, or the suggestion to take all 12 bard levels first. You can get the tier5 damage bonus with only 5 levels of bard. GSM is a huge help and taking fighter levels sooner gets you the BAB sooner. For my take on this I took

I do have to admit I'm playing a variant of this build, but this was the thread that encouraged me to go for 12 bard/6 fighter/2 rogue. (Thanks OP!)

My version

Starting stats
13 str
13 dex
8 int
16 con
8 wis
18 cha (levelups into cha)

1 Fighter (PDK)
2-8 Bard
9-10 Rogue
11-15 Fighter

Feats at 15 were something like:
Toughness
SFM,ISFM,GSFM
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave
Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery
Extend, Empower Healing

If I had it to do over again, I'd delay both shield masteries to take precision and force of personality. Using power attack, my DPS drops a lot on crit-immune opponents and I'm getting far too many grazing hits, and will is by far my weakest save right now. I may use an LR heart to do just that.

Enhancements, Swashbuckler up to T5s, Stalwart Defender and PDK Cha to hit/dmg.

So, why do I say this is not weak?

At level 15:
540 hp
34 reflex save with evasion
22% to dodge
Decent DPS even wielding a gimp-dps weapon (Bodyfeeder shortsword of vampirism)

I'm not an expert player, I don't like tracking short term bosts, dealing with fascinate, heck... I still don't even have spell components for my level 3 spells. I play it like a sword and board tank.

Yet with this build, I can solo heroic elite devils assault at level 15 without potions or even casting a cure spell.

You can watch it here: (http://youtu.be/TvLiNLPFwn8)
Action starts at 1:45, before that I go over stats/gear

Jhaeran
07-01-2014, 01:28 AM
What did you pick up in stalwart defender?

No kensei haste?
No warchanter/spellsinger?

Can you have precision and defensive stance on simultaneously?

I'm still on 15, much lower hp.

Thinking the limitation to shortsword for swash and knights training is tough. Picked up turbulent epee from missing quest (easy/quick farm although it took like 10 tries) and its way better than the lootgen shortsword i had - even using lower str for +hit.

Still not 100% sold on the CHA for hit/damage via PDK. Might be different with a much higher Cha and a nicer shortsword.

Also not 100% sold on the split vs going 20 bard. Songs/spells seem weak so far but only into it 7 levels of bard, last 5 will be bard. Going to play him out a few levels and see how it goes. Going pretty well at level or under leveled by a couple. A bit squishy but pretty good damage.

Ancient
07-01-2014, 09:42 AM
What did you pick up in stalwart defender?

No kensei haste?
No warchanter/spellsinger?

Can you have precision and defensive stance on simultaneously?

I'm still on 15, much lower hp.

Thinking the limitation to shortsword for swash and knights training is tough. Picked up turbulent epee from missing quest (easy/quick farm although it took like 10 tries) and its way better than the lootgen shortsword i had - even using lower str for +hit.

Still not 100% sold on the CHA for hit/damage via PDK. Might be different with a much higher Cha and a nicer shortsword.

Also not 100% sold on the split vs going 20 bard. Songs/spells seem weak so far but only into it 7 levels of bard, last 5 will be bard. Going to play him out a few levels and see how it goes. Going pretty well at level or under leveled by a couple. A bit squishy but pretty good damage.

I'm still trying to sort through the weapon options for bard. Shortswords get +1 range and +1 multiplier while rapiers just get +1 multiplier. I'm still hoping for a nice post that does the math and talks about how other things interacts with this.

My main pickup from stalwart was the stance for saves, prr and hp. Other than the 2 points for cha atk/dmg on shortswords, the rest went into the swashbuckler tree. There is tons of good options, the devs are finally starting to get close to their vision of tough choices.

The pure bard is an option, count of monty cristo thread has a lot of discussion. This class mix is for a more tanky less utility style play that fits me better.

Finally, yes... precision, swashbuckling and stalwart stance can all be active at once.

Seikojin
07-01-2014, 12:31 PM
And by the way, the epic swashbuckler is one of the best offhands for these builds.

Jhaeran
07-02-2014, 12:09 PM
Agreed, I'm using one on my non-optimized HO 24 count of monte cristo.

So good I built a lvl 12 and going to build a lvl 16 for my leveling PDK squash.

I've re-worked my enhancements - so at lvl 16

I have 14 in Stalwart Defender and 37 in swashbuckler, 5 in PDK and 4 in spellsinger - haven't even touched warchanter yet. While I like the cold stuff - i.e. freeze on attack (which works pretty well) and the +ice damage on crit - it's pretty expensive to get there. Will probably add it as I go along.

Really liking the SD line - all passive bonuses - extra saves (+3), PRR (+15), +2 max dex, +20% hitpoints is NICE.

Clickies are only Blow by blow, low blow and coup de grace - and 2 action boosts (no fighter haste yet, next set to get) - doublestrike and human damage. Low # of clickies is nice IMO.

1. Stalwart Defender
a. Core AP cost desc

i. Toughness 1 +1 hp/ap
ii. Overbalance 1 shield vorpal knock down
iii. Stalwart Defense 1 defensive stance
b. Tier 1

i. Improved SD 3 +3 saves
ii. SD master 2 +2 AC/max dex (could do 4 more)
c. Tier 2

i. Improved SD 3 +15 PRR
d. Tier 3

i. Greater SD 3 +20% hp
e. 14 AP Total

2. Swashbuckler
a. Core AP Cost Desc

i. Confidence 1 +1% Dodge, +1 Reflex, +1 Max Dex
ii. Swashbuckling 1 Stance
iii. Uncanny Dodge 1 Uncanny Dodge
iv. Panache 0 +1 Double, +1 dam, +1 reflex need lvl 12
b. Tier 1

i. On your toes 3 +3 Dodge
ii. Blow by Blow 3 +3 crit range atk
c. Tier 2

i. Fast Movement 2 +movement speed
ii. boost - doublestrike 6 +30% doublestrike
d. Tier 3

i. Elegant Footwork 2 20% chance to trip on missed atk
ii. Different Tack 2 Cha to damage
iii. Cha 2 +1 Cha
iv. Resonant Arms 6 +4d6 on crit 3 more to get to 30 for coup
e. Tier 4

i. Swash style II 1 Low blow
ii. Cha 2 +1 Cha
f. Tier 5

i. Thread the needle 2 +5 damage with Precision
ii. Exploit Weakness 2 More crits
iii. Coup de Grace 1 +3W kill atk
g. 37 AP total
3. Kensei
a. Core

i. Kensei Focus 1 +1 hit with light
b. Tier 1

i. Boost Haste 3 +30 atk spd
c. 4 total AP

4. PDK
a. Core

i. AB Damage 1 +20% damage
ii. Cha 2 +1 Cha maybe
b. Tier 1

i. Cormyrean Training 2 Cha for hit/dam
ii. Improved recovery 2 +10% Amp
c. 7 total AP

5. Spellsinger
a. Core

i. spellsinger 1 +1 spell pwer/AP
b. Tier 1

i. Magical Sudies 3 +100 SP
ii. Lingering Songs 3 +60% song duration maybe
c. Tier 2

i. Yellow crown 2 +1 ench DC maybe
d. 9 total AP

6. Warchanter
a. Core

i. Skalidc rage 1 mini rage maybe
b. Tier 1

i. Rough n Ready 3 +6 AC/+6 PRR maybe
ii. Poetic Edda 1 +1 bard song maybe
c. Tier 2

i. AB Sprint 1 +35% spd boost maybe
ii. Iced Edges 2 +1d6 on crit maybe
d. 7 total AP (all maybe)

goodspeed
07-04-2014, 05:52 PM
He probably doesn't want to waste the money. Costs a +1 heart to take rogue @1. Might be worth it if he wanted to eliminate fighter levels, but I personally don't think skill points are worth $11.


As for the build, I like it. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with builds for swashbuckling and SWF.

however, I think you're giving up a lot in enhancements:

For warchanter:
12 AP gets you
10 hp
3 attack
3 songs
6 armor
6 PRR
Greater heroism song
30 temp hp when using IC
12 positive spell power

so 10 hp, 6 prr and 12 spell power. Attack would have to be pretty damn low to miss now adays. GH is available in scroll form, I guess the temp hp thing would be usefullish. Songs, got enough, 6 armor.. eh. I actually think the start of the warchanter tree is one hell of a complete jip.

Now they take all that, switch att for dmg, songs for a stat buff, armor for dodge, and make greater hero song stack with the scroll and the 30 temp hp change to stacking dodge when glanced or something and then you got a tree.