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View Full Version : Please don't "fix" FotW Adrenaline regeneration with Bows.



Nayus
05-17-2014, 06:25 PM
Archers have always been "bad" because they didn't do enough DPS and being "safe" wasn't enough advantage when mobs are so weak.
Now we have Epic Elite, there will always be archers and ranged toons, even if they deal half as much DPS, they'll still be viable. If not optimal.

An archer dealing more DPS than a melee toon can't be working as intended.

Jeremiah179
05-17-2014, 06:55 PM
I really can not interpret what you are saying here... do you mean DO NOT let ranged recharge adrenaline or LET ranged recharge it??


Anyhow, this really has become a cry baby, I want to do what XX person is doing but I do not want to remake my character... so TAKE IT AWAY from XX person NOW!!!

****

A maxed out sorcerer can do an energy burst that under many conditions hits everything around it for 3000-10000 depending on various factors...

A melee blitzer on many dps builds can run through an entire quest doing very high damage, never needing to rest or stop at shrines at all and then kill the boss in 1/10 the time as normal... on ONE charge of blitz.

****

The blitzer just keeps running and killing...
The sorc can just run around and grab aggro, collect, burst, rinse and repeat.
The archer has to at least line up many moving mobs and then charge several abilities in order for ONE over powered effect...

Oh yeah... forgot about the monks... EIN everything in room...

****

The description being wrong is a valid point - I do not care if they fix the description or fix the ability - but either way, adrenaline should still work on an arrow. Unless they are going to change a lot of descriptions to exclude that...


In the end, it seems like the blitzers are just angry when their mobs are getting ranged and insta-killed and they lose their blitz... so they created this silly forum outrage to try to get them nerfed...lol

Nayus
05-17-2014, 07:08 PM
Why do I have this feeling that you're playing an archer?

So, let's make an example:
There's person A, let's call him Harry and person B, let's call him Paul.

Harry goes head on to battle a monster that hits him back for 100+ every second. Everyone says Harry is crazy for doing that but he still does it!
Paul keeps running in circles without ever being hit.
Paul does better DPS than Harry at all times.

Tell me how does that make sense. If I'm getting myself in danger I should at least deal more DPS.
And blitzers? You can blitz in an archer as well.

somethingtosay
05-17-2014, 07:25 PM
:)

Dawnsblood
05-17-2014, 08:13 PM
In a sane world, 100% mitigation (kiting by casters and archers) would mean lower DPS than folks with less mitigation (melee types). The DPS hierarchy should probably look like this:

Melee
Ranged (archery and casters)
Healers

The problem comes from the fact that Turbine has a poor track record with archers. Up until about the release of Artis, archers were at the bottom of the barrel by such a large degree that even tanks (Turbine's current hated role) were better DPS wise. I do not blame archers for being really nervous about the idea of a nerf from our Turbine overlords. It is natural after years of abuse.

How should that hierarchy be restored? I don't know. Should it be restored? Probably. Do I trust Turbine to do it right? This is the problem.

Jeremiah179
05-17-2014, 08:48 PM
[QUOTE=Nayus;5335924]Why do I have this feeling that you're playing an archer?

Lol...

I actually did have a fury shot character...

I did two ETR Primal Past lives and then thought I would move some feats around and go LD-Melee and Blitz... I have not wanted to go back and stop blitzing, not for last primal, not for arcane, not for divine.


I am doing divine now, and I am sad I am not blitzing anymore...

So...lol.

I have been playing a blitzer and a non-multiclass sorc... and a FvS that I cant decide what to do with... but he is busy doing arcane ETRs so does not matter atm...

I was describing my actual experience, not belly aching about what someone else is supposedly doing.

***

Maybe the simple answer is - Manyshot takes extreme concentration and is a spell-LIKE ability that can not be activated while raged? Maybe that would be enough nerf?

Talon_Moonshadow
05-17-2014, 09:06 PM
Stop begging them to nerf other people and just roll up a Moncher like everyone else.







Edit: roll a D20 for a sarcasm saving throw.

Qhualor
05-17-2014, 09:18 PM
Why do I have this feeling that you're playing an archer?

So, let's make an example:
There's person A, let's call him Harry and person B, let's call him Paul.

Harry goes head on to battle a monster that hits him back for 100+ every second. Everyone says Harry is crazy for doing that but he still does it!
Paul keeps running in circles without ever being hit.
Paul does better DPS than Harry at all times.

Tell me how does that make sense. If I'm getting myself in danger I should at least deal more DPS.
And blitzers? You can blitz in an archer as well.

first things first. make appropriate changes to character defense and mob damage mainly for EE and give mobs a bigger brain thus less need for the hp bloat and blanket immunities. once those are fixed, archer builds will look silly running around in circles as the melees are able to withstand the damage better and be able to contribute more in an EE group. below EE, it doesn't matter.

Teh_Troll
05-18-2014, 12:05 AM
Njerf thehm all.

Alternative
05-18-2014, 02:13 AM
I want to do what XX person is doing but I do not want to remake my character... so TAKE IT AWAY from XX person NOW!!!

this

nerfing other builds won't make your characters less gimp people

zwiebelring
05-18-2014, 05:19 AM
Njerf thehm all.

Where there is a njerf there always is a hjeal meh, too?

Fix Adrenaline: yes.

And fix attitude of people thinking Furyhot not possible any more equals gimp, too.

Dhalgren
05-18-2014, 09:24 AM
Fix the descriptions so that it is clear that Adrenaline working with ranged is WAI? Yes.

Not everyone using Furyshot is a monkcher.

FWIW I have a ranged epic toon--not a monkcher, and not a Manyshotter--I use repeaters--designed to work with Furyshot, but am currently in Divine Crusader as I need my karma. Guess what? I'm still doing just fine, thank you.

People thinking Furyshot is the problem are on a bandwagon and have the wrong bone in their teeth.

Teh_Troll
05-18-2014, 10:03 AM
Adrenaline working with ranged is okay.

Recharging with ranged is not working as described.

Recharging with melee requires you to get your hands dirty.

Unless it's Turbine's INTENTION that soloing EE raids while running backwards is okay, something is broken.

droid327
05-18-2014, 11:32 AM
Adrenaline working with ranged is okay.

Recharging with ranged is not working as described.

Recharging with melee requires you to get your hands dirty.

Unless it's Turbine's INTENTION that soloing EE raids while running backwards is okay, something is broken.

Adrenaline working with ranged is OK, because not everyone that wants to use bows in Epic is a Monkcher, and its only a problem when you combine it with 10KS/MS alternation.

Recharging with ranged is not described as working. Devs have stated in times past that they (at the time) were satisfied with what works with ranged in FotW, and honestly, if you have Fury with no recharge, whats the point? 7 shots per rest as your capstone ability?

Recharing with melee requires you to play a playstyle your archer is not designed for (especially if not Ranger), will probably die from, and which negates any DPS gain you get from using Fury. My Arti wont be able to do jack in melee range except get himself killed. And it'll take way longer to complete quests than it would if I just plinked away with autoattack, even. Its like saying Monks can only regenerate Ki by successfully shield-blocking attacks.

Solo kiting is possible, but imagine how long it'd take if they fixed the 10KS/MS over-synergy.

Ancient
05-18-2014, 11:38 AM
Tell me how does that make sense. If I'm getting myself in danger I should at least deal more DPS.
And blitzers? You can blitz in an archer as well.
Glad to hear what you play. I'll add blitzers to the list of DC casters and shuriken throwers that I request nerfs for. The fastest way to stop the complaining and requests for nerfs is to nerf those asking for them and nerf them with the same sledge hammer that they request for others.

When builds are trying to be viable, they have less time for petty things such as being jealous of other builds. Take DC casting as an example, when they were really underpowered... they spent their time rallying for some improvements. Now that gear and enhancements have made them a force again, they turn and complain that shiradi take away from their glory because the shiradi builds haven't put in enough past lives.... obviously the game was happier when the DC casters were a little hungry.

Ancient
05-18-2014, 11:39 AM
Unless it's Turbine's INTENTION that soloing EE raids while running backwards is okay, something is broken.

So you advocate nerfing shuriken throwers and DC casters. Got it.

Ovrad
05-18-2014, 12:24 PM
Don't you know there's only 2 ways to play DDO: monkchers with furyshot, and the wrong way.

You wouldn't want people playing something original now would you? The would be insanity! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!

Battlehawke
05-18-2014, 12:56 PM
It basically took them 6+ years for Turbine to get people to "splash" some kind bow because it was powerful. It took Turbine that long to get people to "want" to play a ranged option. I still struggle with the fact that caster's can "insta-kill" an orange named with 100k hp, but people complain that a fury shot can do what it does. It makes no sense. It would be an absurd nerf to stop ranged fury shots.

Ancient
05-18-2014, 04:48 PM
It basically took them 6+ years for Turbine to get people to "splash" some kind bow because it was powerful. It took Turbine that long to get people to "want" to play a ranged option. I still struggle with the fact that caster's can "insta-kill" an orange named with 100k hp, but people complain that a fury shot can do what it does. It makes no sense. It would be an absurd nerf to stop ranged fury shots.

That is because DC casters need a nerf!

Teh_Troll
05-18-2014, 05:49 PM
So you advocate nerfing shuriken throwers . . .

Yes.




. . . and DC casters.

If their red-named DPS wasn't such pure garbage sure, but as it is now LOLz.

Teh_Troll
05-18-2014, 05:50 PM
That is because DC casters need a nerf!

Somebody out kill you?

Gold Bond medicated powder works if you're sore.

Ancient
05-18-2014, 10:35 PM
Somebody out kill you?

Gold Bond medicated powder works if you're sore.

That hit you in a sensitive spot? Good, DC casters are overpowered again and evidently it is nerf season.

Teh_Troll
05-18-2014, 10:41 PM
That hit you in a sensitive spot? Good, DC casters are overpowered again and evidently it is nerf season.

Define over-powered.

Against trash in 90% of the content they are borderline god-mode.

Their red-named DPS sucks.

Is that over-powered in your book? Do you set the bar that low?

Ancient
05-18-2014, 11:17 PM
Define over-powered.

Against trash in 90% of the content they are borderline god-mode.

Their red-named DPS sucks.

Is that over-powered in your book? Do you set the bar that low?

I do now! Red names are far less than 10% of the mobs.

TheLegendOfAra
05-19-2014, 02:08 AM
I don't understand this idea people have the monkchers are OP because kiting takes way less damage.
Have you watched Sestra's videos of him soloing EE raids? What about his EEMA solo he just posted the other day?
He takes Constant damage in that video.

When I kite things on my AA, depending on the quest/place in the quest I'm kiting I can take just as much damage from melee mobs as ANY melee.

The problem I have with all these"Nerf Monkchers" thread is that you're literally asking to nerf an entire playstyle out of the game.
100% Ranged characters with a bow? Never going to happen with this nerf.

You're demanding that everyone who likes playing ranged 100% of the time with a bow **** off and build hybrid builds that both melee and range because YOU don't like the way THEY play THEIR characters.

Eth
05-19-2014, 02:18 AM
Unless it's Turbine's INTENTION that soloing EE raids while running backwards is okay, something is broken.
It must have been clearly their intention to buff full time ranged characters.
Why on earth would they put dragons in every single 'end game' raid if that was not their intention?
Nerf ranged and the EE raids will be a PITA.

I don't know what their vision is/was. I don't like permanent ranged and don't play these type of characters.
But current raids are what they are.

Nerf this and people will just move on to the next best ranged DPS thing, because it is necessary.
And OP will still cry about it.

Nibor
05-19-2014, 11:22 AM
Adrenaline working with ranged is okay.

Recharging with ranged is not working as described.

Recharging with melee requires you to get your hands dirty.

Unless it's Turbine's INTENTION that soloing EE raids while running backwards is okay, something is broken.

Or they could just buff the adrenaline on melees so that it works on every strike in the attack like it does with manyshot - all the hits on a cleave, all the glancing blows, the double strike, offhand, offhand double strike. I want to wade into a group and adrenaline lay waste or something like that.

Ballyspringer
06-03-2014, 08:53 PM
Didn't realize at first I necro'd a thread... I shouldn't read these while half out of it from a lack of sleep sorry...


Or they could just buff the adrenaline on melees so that it works on every strike in the attack like it does with manyshot - all the hits on a cleave, all the glancing blows, the double strike, offhand, offhand double strike. I want to wade into a group and adrenaline lay waste or something like that.


have to say I was honestly shocked it didn't work like that from the start for Melee's - as I stated in game plenty when destinies first came out, this should be the case, you hit adrenaline then cleave and everything that attack hits should be the added dmg. As for ranged, after years of only doing melee or casters I finally TR'd my old evasion tank into a version of a monkcher a few months ago, and yes it's fun with adrenaline.

In my opinion though:

it's behind throwing stars for ranged which is getting yet another buff (or things to work as intended however you want to word it) to make that even better - constant multiple stars before 10k is even active is hard to keep up with

it's behind shiradi spam/energy burst casters - this is the ultimate easy button currently in the game if the toon is a robot - I have one and I just can't bring myself to play him unless I'm helping someone else cause it's just boring to me how OP it is with not needing gear/PL's/anything to be great

it's on par with melee depending on how you look at it - a blitzing bladeforged with con op+torc+halycomb for unlimited heals is a pure force (or easy to get SP pots to use in EE's) - not as much burst dmg obviously - but the dmg is still amazing - and oh yes constant dmg not limited to bursts! And yes monkcher has a clear advantage on bosses, but most of the game is mobs and getting to the end bosses.

Overall if they do follow through with adrenaline not building with bows throwing star build here I come, or I'll just roll something else because bows will be back to being situational at best or just a flavor option for those who love it.