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View Full Version : Build for a modern FvS/monk ?



SamX
05-05-2014, 03:17 AM
I've been gone from DDO a long time. I've come back now and with all these epic destinies and reincarnation my characters are hopelessly out-of-date. I was hoping for some advice on how to update them!

My main character was an elf 18/2 FvS/monk dual wielding scimitars. I'd like to stay as close to this play style as possible---melee with high avoidance and spells. I want to be able to solo high-end content, but also be in the thick of the melee in a raid (with mass heals). I have access to green steel items, +4 tomes, all dragon touched runes, and two "raider's reward" boxes.

Looking at the new AP system, I think I'd like to go Warpriest. What always annoyed me about wielding scimitars was that I was not centred. I see that it would now be possible to use shortswords if I reincarnated to drow. Of the epic destinies, grandmaster of flowers looks like it could be a lot of fun. I'm torn between 18/2 or 17/3. Going /3 lets me use dex to damage, but /2 lets me keep mass heal (does this matter?).

None of the above is set in stone, just what I was thinking after reading about the new system on ddowiki.

So I was thinking something along the lines of:

30-point Lawful Good Drow
17/3 FvS/monk
9+4 Strength
19+4 Dexterity +7 level-ups
12+4 Constitution
10+4 Intelligence (Concentration, Heal, UMD)
16+4 Wisdom
10+4 Charisma

Monk Feats: TWF, Dodge
Heroic Feats: ITWF, GTWF, PA, extend, quicken, maximize, empower heal
Epic Feats: adept+master of form, blinding speed
Destiny Feats: PTWF, Forced Escape

Enhancements (since I can change these, just a general outline):
Drow: SR/weapons/dodge
War priest: Most of the tree
NiS: sting of ninja/dex damage/dodge
Shintao: deft strikes
AoV: articles of faith

Destiny: grandmaster of flowers


So my main questions:
1- Is TWF Warpriest/ninja viable?
2- Is drow a good choice?
3- 18/2 or 17/3? (ie: str or dex based)
4- Better feat choices?

Thanks for your help!

SirValentine
05-05-2014, 03:42 AM
My main character was an elf 18/2 FvS/monk dual wielding scimitars. I'd like to stay as close to this play style as possible---melee with high avoidance and spells. I have access to green steel items, +4 tomes, all dragon touched runes, and two "raider's reward" boxes.

Looking at the new AP system, I think I'd like to go Warpriest. What always annoyed me about wielding scimitars was that I was not centred. I see that it would now be possible to use shortswords if I reincarnated to drow. Of the epic destinies, grandmaster of flowers looks like it could be a lot of fun. I'm torn between 18/2 or 17/3. Going /3 lets me use dex to damage, but /2 lets me keep mass heal (does this matter?).


I'm not too current on melee stuff myself, but a few points:

- You don't need to go Drow to go Short Sword. Short Swords are automatically a Ki weapon for any Monk-splash with your first ONE Action Point spent in Ninja Spy.
- Mass Heal isn't really that big a deal. Current end-game, such as it is, doesn't really feature as much in the way of fixed-location-party-mass-on-boss-beat-downs.
- Dragontouched hasn't aged that well.
- A big part of avoidance is Dodge; don't neglect it.

And, as I said, not a big melee guy myself, but I think Legendary Dreadnaught & Fury of the Wild tend to be the two main melee DPS Epic Destinies. Also, Divine Crusader worth at least looking at for a divine melee.

SamX
05-05-2014, 03:53 AM
You don't need to go Drow to go Short Sword.
Drow war priests can use shortswords as their religious weapon. Drow also get +5 tohit/damage. That's why drow. :)
Also, the SR from drow + GoF looks nice. Or maybe SR is useless now?

It seems like the only way a war priest can be centred with his religious weapon is to either invest two feats to get longswords or go drow for shortswords. Of short/long-swords, only one of them gets a racial +damage line, the drow. I don't know how important all this is in the grand scheme of things at level 28, but it seems like a nice synergy.

Thanks for the feedback. Good to know that mass heal is not so vital. I'll take a look at fury of the wild.

Wipey
05-05-2014, 05:11 AM
Current cookie cutter for any melee ( or rather EVERYTHING ) is 2-6 monk, 2-4 pally ( essentially 2 pally for fvs since you have DM already ).
18/2 is probably better suited for wisdom build with wraps and little bit of castery side and Gmof.

You can get great info in Shoikan thread, or 12/6mnk/2pally.
Although If I had to choose I would opt for enough STR and Cleaves/PA/OC for the occassional Blitz and Empower Heal+Quicken only. Rest in Charisma.
Only thing you are missing is Mass DW and (True ) Resurrection, there are really no "you guys stand here, stab its back, I will time mass heals" situations anymore.
If there is any need for "tank healing" can just twist Renewal, Healing Spring,Sacred Ground whatever or just switch to Sentinel.
Scroll Resurrections or even Heal scrolls.
But it's all byoh now, so do not worry much about "not having enough healing".
Keep in mind Celestia from Raider's Box doesn't work well with Warpriest line, it breaks its Light damage property.
It's a big shame that it's still broken, I could imagine going Rebellion + Thunderforged.
Tendon Slice Drow Shortsword offhand or maybe we will see new Epic Tiefling blade with epic 3bc :)
Epic Garos Malice with Combustion slotted for some flavour to go with the fire theme if going Crusader.
Either way you want 138 Devo in a weapon since for some glorious reason any fleshy is stuck with silly PDK Gloves and/or Convalescent bracers which doesn't drop anymore.

Drow weapon line is also pretty costly, not sure you would have AP points to spare to get all that, there are awesome things in all trees but can you always keep trying new setups of course.

SR is pretty useless when enemy casters are cr 65 or so.

Fury, Crusader, LD .. heck even Sentinel, you could tank EH Deathwyrm easily.
Gmof doesn't really offer that much for non wraps, low wisdom melee.
Except Dance of Flowers ( oh so OP twist :D)

serthcore
05-05-2014, 07:15 AM
IF you plan on running endgame check out my fvs (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440115-Shoikan-A-Divine-Crusader-Warpriest), its build around the divine crusader epic destiny.
Hope it gives you some ideas.

unbongwah
05-05-2014, 07:55 AM
I'm torn between 18/2 or 17/3. Going /3 lets me use dex to damage, but /2 lets me keep mass heal (does this matter?).
DEX to dmg is a trap, esp. on a build with Div Might. The real reason to consider going monk 3 is for light buffs, esp. the SP reduction one. Whether that's worth giving up Mass Heal or Energy Drain is up to you. :)

You may also want to have a look at my Sohei of Vulkoor, although it's not intended to be a raid healer.

SamX
05-05-2014, 09:01 AM
Thanks for all the feedback!

I read the Shoikan post and found a build posted by tsteigner that I think is close to what I want.
It's a shame that /2 paladin for saves means you lose Leap of Faith and Death Pact.

I see that everyone is prioritizing charisma on these builds. I understand that it pumps 50% strength and all saving throws. However, that doesn't seem particularly amazing to me. Dexterity pumps reflex, 100% damage, and AC. So what am I missing? Why is charisma so much better? From the look of the new AC changes (!d20), I'd have thought stacking dodge/concealment/AC can probably add up to a lot of defense.

If going strength based, why /3 monk instead of just 2 ?
If going strength based, why no cleave/great cleave/overwhelming critical?

EDIT: unbongwah's build seems much closer to my own thoughts for a strength-based build

unbongwah
05-05-2014, 09:28 AM
I see that everyone is prioritizing charisma on these builds. I understand that it pumps 50% strength and all saving throws. However, that doesn't seem particularly amazing to me. Dexterity pumps reflex, 100% damage, and AC. So what am I missing? Why is charisma so much better?
If you go CHA-based, you open up some interesting ED options with the various SLAs, like Energy Burst, Soundburst (which now causes helplessness), Avenging Light, etc. Basically you're trading melee DPS for caster DPS.

serthcore
05-05-2014, 09:44 AM
Thanks for all the feedback!

I read the Shoikan post and found a build posted by tsteigner that I think is close to what I want.
It's a shame that /2 paladin for saves means you lose Leap of Faith and Death Pact.

I see that everyone is prioritizing charisma on these builds. I understand that it pumps 50% strength and all saving throws. However, that doesn't seem particularly amazing to me. Dexterity pumps reflex, 100% damage, and AC. So what am I missing? Why is charisma so much better? From the look of the new AC changes (!d20), I'd have thought stacking dodge/concealment/AC can probably add up to a lot of defense.

If going strength based, why /3 monk instead of just 2 ?
If going strength based, why no cleave/great cleave/overwhelming critical?

EDIT: unbongwah's build seems much closer to my own thoughts for a strength-based build


-AC is worthless for EE content on 99% of the builds, you cant get it high enough to matter. Displacement + dodge + ghostly is still useful.
- Charisma gives higher dc on some offensive epic destiny spells, please notice that a big part of my damage come from spells
- I'm not going for ocrit for several reasons: Have to lower my charisma for it, its 3 feats that i cant fit, and im not gonna use cleaves on twf anyway, my AOE dps comes from spells. And cleaves + twf isnt that synergistic.
-3 Monk for FoL and water/light finisher buff

Cardtrick
05-05-2014, 09:48 AM
If you go CHA-based, you open up some interesting ED options with the various SLAs, like Energy Burst, Soundburst (which now causes helplessness), Avenging Light, etc. Basically you're trading melee DPS for caster DPS.

This is true, and is part of the motivation, except that I would say you're not even really trading melee DPS away. He's comparing CHA/STR to DEX. The reality is that there are so many ways to improve STR that even a build that focuses on CHA will wind up with more STR (when normally buffed) than a DEX build will have DEX. E.g., DEX doesn't have the ability to add +5 from Primal Scream. More importantly, a CHA/STR build gets full benefit from STR gear and half benefit from CHA gear, whereas a DEX build only gets the DEX gear. When you're getting +11 STR from STR items (+10 STR and and +1 exceptional) and +7 STR from CHA items (+10 CHA item + 3 insightful + 1 exceptional for an extra +7 to modifier), along with the +5 from primal scream, it's really hard for DEX to catch up. Also, on a primary FvS build, the stat increases you can take as class enhancements don't include DEX.

SamX
05-05-2014, 11:40 AM
-AC is worthless for EE content on 99% of the builds, you cant get it high enough to matter. Displacement + dodge + ghostly is still useful.
That was certainly true when it was tohit+d20>AC. However, with the new function they use to determine hit/miss, I think it is exactly when you have LOW AC that adding points is most valuable. I don't disagree that you want to stack all the forms of avoidance at the same time as cheaply as possible.


- I'm not going for ocrit for several reasons: Have to lower my charisma for it, its 3 feats that i cant fit, and im not gonna use cleaves on twf anyway, my AOE dps comes from spells. And cleaves + twf isnt that synergistic.
I think I'm going to go with unbongwah's build, but using Charisma. By my calculation, I can still take 18 base charisma +4 level ups while reaching 23 str for ocrit. That seems a reasonable trade-off to me.


More importantly, a CHA/STR build gets full benefit from STR gear and half benefit from CHA gear, whereas a DEX build only gets the DEX gear.
Convinced. Thank you.

Caprice
05-05-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: Mass Heal, I am going agree on its limited usefulness. The ED healing SLAs (i.e. PA's Rejuvenation Cocoon & US's Renewal) do most of the work as strong and super cheap spot heals, and Mass Cures will carry the day just fine on the group needs.

For questing Mass Heal is all but useless, as people are all but never going to be bunched enough for it to be worth casting, and for single-target casting you'll want to rely on the vastly more SP-efficient healing SLAs as much as possible. Cocoon is particularly strong since it does not require Line of Sight to cast so you can still help those people who are zerging around corners somewhere as long as they are close enough to target at all. People also tend to be more self-sufficient than they used to be especially at epic levels. Cocoon is an easy tier 1 twist for any fleshie and not just a thing for healer-types, and most of the magic robots these days are either self-healing Pale Master wizards, self-healing Artificers, or have TR'd into Reconstruction SLA'd self-healing BFs.

I raid heal a lot these days and Mass Heal is helpful there but not necessary by a long stretch. The Mass Cures cast much more quickly so you won't need to be as proactive on Mass casts and won't lose squishy people to bursts as often, but they are also much less SP efficient so you need to be more careful with managing SP and proactive about the spot healing. It's really a wash between them with roughly equivalent pros and cons IMO. I have tried raids using just Mass Heal and others using just Mass Cures and I do not think it makes enough of a difference to worry about.