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Linvak
04-25-2014, 11:33 AM
Does anyone know the level of effectiveness the left side of the shadowdancer provides, as far as consume, shadow form, and epic moment go?

I understand that it's not really achievable when trying to max your assassinate, but maybe a str/dex base or repeater build? The left side provides alot of defensive measures and some potential kick on ranged dmg.

Does it just not make up for the obvious power in an assassin?

Nodoze
04-25-2014, 12:18 PM
Does anyone know the level of effectiveness the left side of the shadowdancer provides, as far as consume, shadow form, and epic moment go?

I understand that it's not really achievable when trying to max your assassinate, but maybe a str/dex base or repeater build? The left side provides alot of defensive measures and some potential kick on ranged dmg.

Does it just not make up for the obvious power in an assassin?Of all the EDs I like the ShadowDancer ED on my Arti and I find it very balanced. Since I cannot Assassinate I use the left side. I like that it helps me with my traps and that it provides the 25% Incorp greatly boosting survivability.

I use the first charge I get to go into shadowform and then I like to max out my charges and then start using charges to:
- Take control of a tanky enemy from around a corner and then send my pet in. Between them I hardly get aggro and any that do come to me I can usually mow them down;
- With larger groups I often start the fight like the above and then come up next to the group and pop consume and basically implode multiple bad guys thinning their ranks...

Note that my Arti is a max int build 1st lifer build and the DCs seem good enough for EH and below. For EE I try go incorp ASAP and try to get max charges to max my dodge and then just try to watch my aggro (the control and consume didn't seem reliable for me on EE).

Linvak
04-25-2014, 12:25 PM
Of all the EDs I like the ShadowDancer ED on my Arti and I find it very balanced. Since I cannot Assassinate I use the left side. I like that it helps me with my traps and that it provides the 25% Incorp greatly boosting survivability.

I use the first charge I get to go into shadowform and then I like to max out my charges and then start using charges to:
- Take control of a tanky enemy from around a corner and then send my pet in. Between them I hardly get aggro and any that do come to me I can usually mow them down;
- With larger groups I often start the fight like the above and then come up next to the group and pop consume and basically implode multiple bad guys thinning their ranks...

Note that my Arti is a max int build 1st lifer build and the DCs seem good enough for EH and below. For EE I try go incorp ASAP and try to get max charges to max my dodge and then just try to watch my aggro (the control and consume didn't seem reliable for me on EE).

Ya, this is what I was looking into. You have alot of abilities to get out of agro, on top of being ranged anyways. Have you tried the dark imbuement, epic moment at all?

Mercureal
04-25-2014, 12:53 PM
In my experience, the abilities are pretty decent, although I haven't used SD in close to a year.

My Rogue only had about 30-32 Int at the time and Shadow Manipulation worked reliably in EH, and even against some enemies in the easier EEs, and it doesn't break stealth. Executioner's Strike one-third insta-kill was nice and usable against lower-fort enemies, and the defensive stuff - displacement, dodge %, shadow form incorporeal, was useful too. Consume, however, was not reliable, I'd often get no kills from it, even standing in a group of enemies, and best usually 1-2.

I never bothered with the Epic Moment; 2d6 damage for 30 seconds isn't worth the points to buy it, let alone the time spent to charge it. I was also wary of the description, unholy (evil?) damage sounds like it wouldn't even work against most monsters. Though in fairness, I remember someone who used it saying that it did damage most enemies.

Linvak
04-25-2014, 02:25 PM
In my experience, the abilities are pretty decent, although I haven't used SD in close to a year.

My Rogue only had about 30-32 Int at the time and Shadow Manipulation worked reliably in EH, and even against some enemies in the easier EEs, and it doesn't break stealth. Executioner's Strike one-third insta-kill was nice and usable against lower-fort enemies, and the defensive stuff - displacement, dodge %, shadow form incorporeal, was useful too. Consume, however, was not reliable, I'd often get no kills from it, even standing in a group of enemies, and best usually 1-2.

I never bothered with the Epic Moment; 2d6 damage for 30 seconds isn't worth the points to buy it, let alone the time spent to charge it. I was also wary of the description, unholy (evil?) damage sounds like it wouldn't even work against most monsters. Though in fairness, I remember someone who used it saying that it did damage most enemies.

I agree, seems like it takes a while to charge. On the melee side probably not worth at all. But when using a repeater and possibly fullisade, +30% chance of 10d6....

Granted unholy didn't sound right to me either, but I'm wondering it it's actually untyped. Thanks for the insight, I'm probably going to try it out down the road.

Romaniac
06-12-2014, 05:55 AM
I did look for the sneak attack bonuses to fit in to my DWS build. It works out nice, 1k+ crits sneak attack damage on debuff are common now. The Epic Moment I do not like for my playstyle. The build-up of charges for the outcome is too long with a meager result.

Of course, I would like to have some good AoE dmg effects - but hey, could have rolled a spellcaster if I wanted to play that way.

With the Twist of Fate I will start to test the SD/DWS applying a Prism Stance - Double Rainbow splash now. But that would work only in a group/raid environment as the trade-off would be the precious Cocoon.

Qezuzu
06-14-2014, 09:38 AM
I understand that it's not really achievable when trying to max your assassinate

It is achievable. You can get over 60 DC. 65 works pretty well even in the highest level quests, but realistically you need to use Measure the Foe to get that.

Shadow Dancer is really nice.

Consume is trash though.

Epic Moment is complete trash.

Shadow Form is nice. 25% Incorporeality is really good, and that +20 to stealth is really handy cause stuff has stupid high spot/listen.

Shadow Manipulation is pure goodness. It dominates a monster for one minute. It fights for you, and then after a minute it's instantly killed. It's very very rare to see anything save, even Divine Caster enemies don't save against the dominate (which is a will save.) It can be used on anything so long as you have it target; it works at any range and also through walls.

Every other ability/benefit in the tree is just sort of okay.

Linvak
06-15-2014, 05:56 PM
It is achievable. You can get over 60 DC. 65 works pretty well even in the highest level quests, but realistically you need to use Measure the Foe to get that.

Shadow Dancer is really nice.

Consume is trash though.

Epic Moment is complete trash.

Shadow Form is nice. 25% Incorporeality is really good, and that +20 to stealth is really handy cause stuff has stupid high spot/listen.

Shadow Manipulation is pure goodness. It dominates a monster for one minute. It fights for you, and then after a minute it's instantly killed. It's very very rare to see anything save, even Divine Caster enemies don't save against the dominate (which is a will save.) It can be used on anything so long as you have it target; it works at any range and also through walls.

Every other ability/benefit in the tree is just sort of okay.

Ya I was adding in epic moment and consume. Didn't know much about them.

kamimitsu
06-15-2014, 11:28 PM
It is achievable. You can get over 60 DC. 65 works pretty well even in the highest level quests, but realistically you need to use Measure the Foe to get that.

Shadow Dancer is really nice.

Consume is trash though.

Epic Moment is complete trash.

Shadow Form is nice. 25% Incorporeality is really good, and that +20 to stealth is really handy cause stuff has stupid high spot/listen.

Shadow Manipulation is pure goodness. It dominates a monster for one minute. It fights for you, and then after a minute it's instantly killed. It's very very rare to see anything save, even Divine Caster enemies don't save against the dominate (which is a will save.) It can be used on anything so long as you have it target; it works at any range and also through walls.

Every other ability/benefit in the tree is just sort of okay.

Pretty much this. I found Shadow Manipulation insanely useful in EE content. As you said, it works at ANY distance and almost nothing saves. Our 4 man static group used it to great effect to slip by enemies, control aggro, and set up nuking/insta-kills. It's the bees knees.