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Cordovan
04-23-2014, 03:08 PM
UPDATE: Sagas have returned with the release of Update 22!

Sagas have been temporarily disabled due to a bug. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Madja
04-23-2014, 03:10 PM
Do completions still count for when you bring them back?

Cashiry
04-23-2014, 03:12 PM
Do completions still count for when you bring them back?

I would rather see a 30% Heroic/Epic xp bonus while saga's are down..

Seikojin
04-23-2014, 03:13 PM
I hope they come back with more saga friends. LOL

mikarddo
04-23-2014, 03:20 PM
Sagas have been temporarily disabled due to a bug. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Ouch, lets hope this one does not take weeks to fix like it did last time. We badly need this one to work again really soon as its an integral part of epic reincarnations.
Ohh, and enable bonus xp until its fixed obviously.

LeoLionxxx
04-23-2014, 03:26 PM
I hope they come back with more saga friends. LOL

Yes, it would be a delight to see more sagas become available.

-3BC is a good, simple one. Could be thrown in with U22.
-Something of Madness, which includes Delirium and the Harbinger/Reign of madness pack would be fun!
-Maybe a Korthose one, for the newbies.


What might also be revisited is the prospect of awarding CoVs in there as well. It is still a hassle to get big bunches of them so putting them as an option could only be a benefit!

Postumus
04-23-2014, 03:31 PM
yayyy just as I was gearing up for Giant Hold! :(

Gizeh
04-23-2014, 03:32 PM
That sucks, I had been hoping to get my newly created guild to level 46 this week for access to all resist 20 amenities. I hope it won't take long to solve this problem.

Edit: I was able to pick up a GH saga after the downtime and ran it while a store bought Greater Guild Rennown elixir was still running (from a previous completion). I hope I'll be able to turn that completion in when sagas are back up.

Nibor
04-23-2014, 03:36 PM
Not to belabor the point, but this is exactly the sort of thing that should have been in the "maintenance notes" that we weren't given.

Nayus
04-23-2014, 03:41 PM
Not to belabor the point, but this is exactly the sort of thing that should have been in the "maintenance notes" that we weren't given.It's been announced now.

silinteresting
04-23-2014, 03:42 PM
this is a joke right, my toon is lvl 27 nearly 28
ive only got stormhorns to run to have all sagas
filled ready to epic tr tonight.

no what the hell am i supposed to do, raid i guess.

please can we get this fixed asap.

your friend sil :)

cdbd3rd
04-23-2014, 03:44 PM
I hope they come back with more saga friends. LOL


Some Sagas there's just no replacing. :)


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/17100000/Loni-Anderson-Cover-of-Saga-Magazine-retro-and-vintage-pinup-models-17114361-740-1000.jpg

cave_diver
04-23-2014, 03:52 PM
So down temporarily....so that means 3-4 weeks if I know turbine speak. :(

SirValentine
04-23-2014, 03:55 PM
Do completions still count for when you bring them back?

Yes, please answer this!

What exactly is shut down? All tracking of sagas? Or just collection of end-rewards?

Munkenmo
04-23-2014, 03:58 PM
Cordovan you should probably disable chain rewards too.

Chaimberland
04-23-2014, 04:03 PM
Really would like to know if the saga tracking is down also. I don't want to run any of the quests to find out later they didn't count towards the sagas.

Pandir
04-23-2014, 04:16 PM
Uh that sucks.

maovin
04-23-2014, 04:23 PM
Cordovan!!!!!!!!!!! Do you Know how much of a pain The Crucible is?

Cordovan
04-23-2014, 04:23 PM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Nayus
04-23-2014, 04:26 PM
Cordovan!!!!!!!!!!! Do you Know how much of a pain The Crucible is?It's pretty fun if you learn the maze.

Madja
04-23-2014, 04:31 PM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.



Thank you! That's good to hear.

Chaimberland
04-23-2014, 04:36 PM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Thank you for the info Cordovan.

Nédime
04-23-2014, 04:37 PM
Cordovan!!!!!!!!!!! Do you Know how much of a pain The Crucible is?

Lol, seriously ?

It had already been cruciblized so there's nothing more to complain about.


Ona personnal note I would love a Necro saga.

Pandir
04-23-2014, 04:38 PM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Thanks for the info.

droid327
04-23-2014, 06:21 PM
It's pretty fun if you learn the maze.

Unless you're solo, and your hireling decides to teleport to you halfway through or just decides not to throw the switch when you tell him to, and you get stuck and have to recall out and reset the quest....

Yadasani
04-23-2014, 06:50 PM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.


Thank you for the information. Couple of questions, what happens if we did not claim the reward, will the reward still be available when it is fixed? If you TR in the mean time do you loose the reward?

rayworks
04-23-2014, 07:01 PM
Ona personnal note I would love a Necro saga.


Yes. Why aren't the Necro chains a saga? It would seem to be a no-brainer.

Cardtrick
04-23-2014, 07:05 PM
Unless you're solo, and your hireling decides to teleport to you halfway through or just decides not to throw the switch when you tell him to, and you get stuck and have to recall out and reset the quest....

Or you fall off the top area with the switches and back down into the maze and just want to kill yourself. More of an issue in heroics than epics though . . . stupid sleet storm on ledges . . .

BOgre
04-23-2014, 07:30 PM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Hmm, Tuesday - Sagas Working. Wednesday - Update. Later Wednesday - Sagas not working. But not related. So, I'm looking to buy a bridge in the San Fran area, got any leads?

Mithis
04-23-2014, 08:24 PM
I had all six epic Sagas completed on normal with the reward list generated in preparation for doing an eTR (tonight!!??!!).

Am I about to get screwed and lose my reward(s) or will my list still be there when this is fixed?

dirtydigger7out
04-23-2014, 08:49 PM
yea sagas are down. yes it does suck.yes it happens all the time. yes the ppl who exploit know more about the game mechanics then the programers do. yes it will happen again.yes people will always complain. but hey atleast this time cordovan is responding to peoples legitimate questions and giving solid answers. that is a huge step up and he is trying to do a better job then in the past. So I say thanks for the heads up Cordovan. In addition i would like to point out *** are most of you thinking come on 99% of the time when quest/sagas/items are removed or suspended it is because some one some where found a way to bypass the primary function of that part of the game to there benafit and anyone who has been around ddo for more than 5 min knows no way, no how, and never will turbine go into any detail what so ever about an exploit. so stop asking because thay aint telling.

Uska
04-23-2014, 09:32 PM
yea sagas are down. yes it does suck.yes it happens all the time. yes the ppl who exploit know more about the game mechanics then the programers do. yes it will happen again.yes people will always complain. but hey atleast this time cordovan is responding to peoples legitimate questions and giving solid answers. that is a huge step up and he is trying to do a better job then in the past. So I say thanks for the heads up Cordovan. In addition i would like to point out *** are most of you thinking come on 99% of the time when quest/sagas/items are removed or suspended it is because some one some where found a way to bypass the primary function of that part of the game to there benafit and anyone who has been around ddo for more than 5 min knows no way, no how, and never will turbine go into any detail what so ever about an exploit. so stop asking because thay aint telling.

Fix all the exploiters by changing all their gear to min lvl100

droid327
04-23-2014, 11:33 PM
Yes. Why aren't the Necro chains a saga? It would seem to be a no-brainer.

Because by the time you could complete it (L14), you'd have to go back and run L6 quests for another completion. I don't think Turbine wants to introduce something that officially forces you to run trivially under-level content (ie below the 0% XP line).

Wowzor
04-24-2014, 06:35 AM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Really? Because a change was made yesterday with the "maintenance" in which daily roll xp stones, when used, temporarily lock out all other keystrokes and actions (except the enter key) until the confirmation box is used. Anyone who used their daily stone yesterday while running found that out. Saga rewards include the same xp stone, only it gets used automatically when you choose it as a reward. I personally have a hard time believing that these 2 things are unrelated.

Ivan_Milic
04-24-2014, 06:38 AM
Really? Because a change was made yesterday with the "maintenance" in which daily roll xp stones, when used, temporarily lock out all other keystrokes and actions (except the enter key) until the confirmation box is used. Anyone who used their daily stone yesterday found that out. Saga rewards include the same xp stone, only it gets used automatically when you choose it as a reward. Do you really expect us to believe these 2 things are unrelated?

Yep, they want you to believe that.

Frogger1234
04-24-2014, 08:14 AM
Or you fall off the top area with the switches and back down into the maze and just want to kill yourself. More of an issue in heroics than epics though . . . stupid sleet storm on ledges . . .

I was in a party where someone fell off the top area into the spiked pit and died. I guess they fulfilled your wish. At least they could be res'd and healed from up top, and they were in a position to just climb a ladder and retrace the path to rejoin the party.

atlgentlegiant
04-24-2014, 08:25 AM
The saga issue bites. I still have other issues since the last patch, namely I cannot get to Gianthold. Every time I try my client crashes. Could someone please help me with a fix? On Cannith.

HungarianRhapsody
04-24-2014, 08:37 AM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Is it related to the latest unannounced "stealth" update to the game client that you sent out on April 23rd?

When you say maintenance, that implies that you're going to be doing maintenance and not changing the client. I just downloaded a new client yesterday . I'm okay with you saying that there are no release notes and it's pretty obvious what this update was for (fixing exploits), but PLEASE don't try to pass something like this off as just maintenance when you're going to put out a new client along with any maintenance that's being done.

I don't think that you were trying to lie here, but this kind of misinformation really does leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's not as if we won't notice when we download a new client from Turbine.

XiaNYdE
04-24-2014, 08:44 AM
FYI, the quests are still being tracked for Saga purposes even when the Saga NPCs are no longer providing rewards.

To answer another question, this is not related to the maintenance that took place earlier today.

Colour me puzzled but the sagas were working fine, servers go down for 'maintenance', they come back online, there are files downloaded, sagas are broken, how is this not related?? How dumb do you guys think people are??

XiaNYdE
04-24-2014, 08:57 AM
yea sagas are down. yes it does suck.yes it happens all the time. yes the ppl who exploit know more about the game mechanics then the programers do. yes it will happen again.yes people will always complain. but hey atleast this time cordovan is responding to peoples legitimate questions and giving solid answers. that is a huge step up and he is trying to do a better job then in the past. So I say thanks for the heads up Cordovan. In addition i would like to point out *** are most of you thinking come on 99% of the time when quest/sagas/items are removed or suspended it is because some one some where found a way to bypass the primary function of that part of the game to there benafit and anyone who has been around ddo for more than 5 min knows no way, no how, and never will turbine go into any detail what so ever about an exploit. so stop asking because thay aint telling.

Don't think anyone asked for detailed info about the *inert banished word here* but a little honesty goes a long way and simply saying that there was a problem with something they did would go a lot further then denying they did anything when every single one of us had changes made to game files and prior to those changes sagas were fine. The fact is they snuck in a patch/hotfix whatever it was without saying anything and broke something valuable to players in the process then said it was a not from what they did. So for me, no Cordovan did not give a solid answer, i don't blame him directly for that, he seems to say little more then he is told to say, but don't expect me as a player to buy it, because i don't, no more then i would trust anyone in RL giving me evasive answers and denying what's in front of me is there.

enochiancub
04-24-2014, 09:13 AM
These threads always think that people picture the folks at Turbine hidden in the shadows, steepling their fingers and cackling menacingly. If that how you guys think of them?

Pandir
04-24-2014, 09:29 AM
These threads always think that people picture the folks at Turbine hidden in the shadows, steepling their fingers and cackling menacingly. If that how you guys think of them?

Sure i mean they are dungeon masters......kinda.

Cordovan
04-24-2014, 09:40 AM
Thank you for the information. Couple of questions, what happens if we did not claim the reward, will the reward still be available when it is fixed? If you TR in the mean time do you loose the reward?

It should work as it normally does, so if you typically lose the ability to take an unclaimed Saga end reward when you TR, then the same would happen now.

Thordicain
04-24-2014, 12:35 PM
There are lots of bugs in this game. I do not understand how they can be graded . One of my pet bugs is on Lava Caves, Colossal Crystals, where the Kobalds do not stay with the Torches and the Circles of Power do not appear where needed for completion of all the Large Crystals.

Nédime
04-24-2014, 02:40 PM
Because by the time you could complete it (L14), you'd have to go back and run L6 quests for another completion. I don't think Turbine wants to introduce something that officially forces you to run trivially under-level content (ie below the 0% XP line).

It is not mandatory that they take all necros in one saga (or it could be a non repeat saga) - there could be a crossover between delera and necro 1&2 and xorian cypher - or even catacomb and necro I ... Or necro III - delera 11s with undead and necro IV ... there are many possibilities.

MangLord
04-24-2014, 07:21 PM
I'd also love to see more sagas of various levels. It would be a lot of fun, and an added goal to work towards. A little more xp would never hurt the TR grind. The Gianthold saga makes me look forward to those quests when I hit level 15-16. A Korthos saga and Harbor saga would be excellent. Maybe it would encourage people to run Stealthy Repossession again.

I'm assuming sagas and the free feat respec questionnaire are down due to exploits. People are killing me with their relentless cheating.

Nayus
04-24-2014, 07:29 PM
Is there an estimate date to when sagas may be back? Is it more like 1 week, 1 month, 1 year?

cave_diver
04-24-2014, 07:31 PM
Day 2 of disabled sagas, any idea when they are planned to be opened up again? Please don't say next update, a lot of us use sagas for our etr's.

Would like to see a permanent 30% epic xp boost to compensate until sagas are restored.

mikarddo
04-25-2014, 06:01 AM
Day 2 of disabled sagas, any idea when they are planned to be opened up again? Please don't say next update, a lot of us use sagas for our etr's.

Would like to see a permanent 30% epic xp boost to compensate until sagas are restored.

Completely agree. If Sagas cannot be restored in time for the weekend then +30% xp would be proper compensation remaning up until Sagas are back in business.

Grimlock
04-25-2014, 07:38 AM
If sagas are disabled for whatever reason are we still okay to run quests and expect them to still count towards a saga turn-in once they can be used again?

Grosbeak07
04-25-2014, 07:44 AM
If sagas are disabled for whatever reason are we still okay to run quests and expect them to still count towards a saga turn-in once they can be used again?

Cordovan did confirm that they still count.

JOTMON
04-25-2014, 08:37 AM
Cordovan did confirm that they still count.

Its not just the reward interface that is gone, the Saga NPC's dont interact at all.

Now you cant see what you had done and what was left to do, and doing the same ones over dont contribute to anything.

Qhualor
04-25-2014, 08:46 AM
Its not just the reward interface that is gone, the Saga NPC's dont interact at all.

Now you cant see what you had done and what was left to do, and doing the same ones over dont contribute to anything.

There was talk of seeing your progress in the Adventure Compendium awhile back. This is just another reason why it should be done. Talking to the NPC shouldn't be the only way to see progress, especially like in Eveningstar they look just like quest chain NPCs.

Gljosh
04-25-2014, 03:39 PM
Is there an estimate date to when sagas may be back? Is it more like 1 week, 1 month, 1 year?

I think it depends on how many people sign up for the 1 year VIP with bonus 3 months. The have hamsters to feed!

Scrapco
04-26-2014, 12:24 PM
These threads always think that people picture the folks at Turbine hidden in the shadows, steepling their fingers and cackling menacingly. If that how you guys think of them?

Every time I get my head chopped off opening the last chest in the Prisoner, yes, that's *exactly* how I picture them. :D

BigErkyKid
04-27-2014, 09:58 AM
An estimate of when the sagas will be back up would be appreciated. If it is meant to be restored when the new update comes up, would like to know that too.

Vanhooger
04-28-2014, 08:18 AM
Can please some dev tell us how long we have to wait till the saga come back? I have my main capped and all saga done waiting to tr him. thanks

maovin
04-28-2014, 11:12 AM
since the sagas are down would it be possible to add Commendations of Valor to the Quest Rewards.

Nédime
04-28-2014, 02:09 PM
since the sagas are down would it be possible to add Commendations of Valor to the Quest Rewards.

That or bonus XP or free XP pots or whatever - just give us a slight sign that you people care about us.

cave_diver
04-28-2014, 06:23 PM
Sagas have been temporarily disabled due to a bug. We apologize for the inconvenience.


So cordo, any idea what temporarily is? is it Soon?

Vanhooger
04-29-2014, 05:36 AM
If it's going to take ages to fix, at least say it please.

Catteras
04-29-2014, 05:47 AM
There was talk of seeing your progress in the Adventure Compendium awhile back. This is just another reason why it should be done. Talking to the NPC shouldn't be the only way to see progress, especially like in Eveningstar they look just like quest chain NPCs.

Spreadsheets solve many problems. This is one of them.

However, i do agree that the adventure compendium should be more useful. Once it can track number of completions at all difficulties, i might be able to walk away from my spreadsheets... Maybe....

Cordovan
04-29-2014, 10:50 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Pandir
04-29-2014, 10:53 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Wow. Well i guess we at least know what's up. Thanks.

Sarzor
04-29-2014, 10:53 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Refresher when to expect Update 22?

Pandir
04-29-2014, 10:55 AM
Refresher when to expect Update 22?

Well since there's not even a lamania version of the swashbuckler or anything for that matter yet, i'd say long.

Sarzor
04-29-2014, 11:00 AM
Well since there's not even a lamania version of the swashbuckler or anything for that matter yet, i'd say long.

Awesome, there goes my source for tomes and xp. Glad I got +3s for most of them already...

Nayus
04-29-2014, 11:00 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!:X Thank you for telling us.

Would it be possible to scale up XP or maybe even only the XP of saga quests? I know there are limits of what can and can not be done by a person but I'm just leaving this idea here in case anyone with enough authority to do so checks up the thread.

Vanhooger
04-29-2014, 11:00 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!
thanks to let us know at least.

Spoonwelder
04-29-2014, 11:01 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!
Can I just say if this has anything to do with an exploit .....how bout we turn it back on for the 95% of your players who are honest and don't exploit then hammer the exploiters to the wall.

I am not an IT guy but I have enough knowledge to sound stupid to IT guys but smart to other people....so this may be simplifying things but can you put a monitor on certain database fields/combinations (ie. skill tomes, XP rewards from sagas) and if a single character gets multiples in a short period of time that it flags that account and a human comes along and follows up with a large ban hammer in tow.

See sounds reasonable but some IT guy will come along and tell me I am an idiot.

Missing_Minds
04-29-2014, 11:07 AM
Refresher when to expect Update 22?

6 months.

rest
04-29-2014, 11:09 AM
Can I just say if this has anything to do with an exploit .....how bout we turn it back on for the 95% of your players who are honest and don't exploit then hammer the exploiters to the wall.

I am not an IT guy but I have enough knowledge to sound stupid to IT guys but smart to other people....so this may be simplifying things but can you put a monitor on certain database fields/combinations (ie. skill tomes, XP rewards from sagas) and if a single character gets multiples in a short period of time that it flags that account and a human comes along and follows up with a large ban hammer in tow.

See sounds reasonable but some IT guy will come along and tell me I am an idiot.

If they could do that, do you think they would have turned them off in the first place?

Tentaki
04-29-2014, 11:09 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

I appreciate the update in the situation so I know what to expect, as this affects how I approach quests. Knowing I won't have access to Gianthold Saga XP is good to know, though it leaves me at a disadvantage since I usually run that thing 2-3 times to help with leveling.

It would be a nice gesture if we got some bonus XP incentives during the time sagas are down. I actually recently bought the Druid's Deep pack mostly because it was the last pack I needed in the Eveningstar set so I could complete some of the big sagas there, so it's a bit disappointing to know that the main reason I bought the pack has been taken away for the foreseeable future.

Gizeh
04-29-2014, 11:17 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

There goes my plan to quickly gain a few guild levels... at least I won't have to spend money on renown pots now.

BOgre
04-29-2014, 11:20 AM
There goes my plan to quickly gain a few guild levels... at least I won't have to spend money on renown pots now.

That can't be right. The exploiters keep telling us exploits hurt no one. Was that not true??? I feel so deceived! ;p

Seikojin
04-29-2014, 11:23 AM
Bummer on the duration. But I think U22 will be launched at the end of may or beginning of june

TrinityTurtle
04-29-2014, 11:27 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

So do we have an eta on that then? :)

barecm
04-29-2014, 11:34 AM
Can I just say if this has anything to do with an exploit .....how bout we turn it back on for the 95% of your players who are honest and don't exploit then hammer the exploiters to the wall.

I am not an IT guy but I have enough knowledge to sound stupid to IT guys but smart to other people....so this may be simplifying things but can you put a monitor on certain database fields/combinations (ie. skill tomes, XP rewards from sagas) and if a single character gets multiples in a short period of time that it flags that account and a human comes along and follows up with a large ban hammer in tow.

See sounds reasonable but some IT guy will come along and tell me I am an idiot.

I am sure it is possible, just not practical. What you are proposing takes resources. Either someone has to watch to find cheaters or someone has to write up a program that will search for them. Either way, resources are being consumed for a staff that is already thinned recnelty. It sucks they are closed as I use them as a bridge between content and a nice way to level up during TRs and good source of guild XP, but I do understand why they have to close them.

mutilador
04-29-2014, 11:43 AM
This is nonsense, this should be fixed as faster as possible.

I want to finish my ETR's but i want to be able to get the saga rewards.

If you guys don't know, you are losing money because it.

beta1
04-29-2014, 11:45 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

What about those of us who completed the saga before they were disabled (in my case the day before), but didn't pick up the end reward yet?

Maudib_360
04-29-2014, 12:19 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

This is totally unacceptable.

I just completed every saga, but decided to wait a week or two in case we got a Renown Boost Weekend before TRing. Now I'm stuck at cap with nothing to run and I can't collect my rewards. Why should something like this take so long to fix? This is yet another system implemented into DDO which was obviously not fully tested. Instead of punishing the average players, maybe you should think about focusing on punishing those who take advantage of your buggy code by exploiting.

I can thank you for the post though Cordovan. My subscription renewal comes up in 10 days and you have just helped me make the decision not to renew.

Gizeh
04-29-2014, 12:34 PM
{...[

Why should something like this take so long to fix?

[...]

I can thank you for the post though Cordovan. My subscription renewal comes up in 10 days and you have just helped me make the decision not to renew.

I doubt this takes longer to fix than any other bug/exploit that was repaired with a hotfix. My guess is that somebody at Turbine said "good thing we can deactivate sagas, so why fix them now when we can just as well shut them down and fix them whenever we feel like it".

And I agree with you, it's things like this that add up and will influence the decision whether or not I will renew my subscription when the time comes.

ValariusK
04-29-2014, 12:53 PM
I've been on the fence as to whether to buy the 15 months for 12 months VIP special. This sort of thing isn't prejudicing that decision in turbine's favor. The problem is that a lot of us rely heavily on sagas in the epic levels to level our guilds and for experience immediately post ETR. The longer this outage persists the more vexing it is.
Another problem is psychological: The sagas provide handy milestones for us in the longer epic levels.

So if you CAN fix it quickly, I strongly recommend that you do so. If you can't, I suggest making an apology and granting a 10% heroic and epic xp, guild renown, and Covs until it is fixed. That I know you CAN do, and I believe you should do. It will greatly reduce the annoyance of the player base.

On the issue that I won't name, I'll suggest this from my prior experiences with other MMOs--most notably DAoC. Mythic had a set of queries that regularly ran tracking how much of quantities x, y, and z that any player had. When the deltas per unit time rose above critical thresholds, a human being would check into it. Sometimes it was something honest, other times some kind of malfeasance, and sometimes it was just something like a broken loot table on a drop.

PermaBanned
04-29-2014, 01:02 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Care to share the (approximate/tentative) date for it's release? Maybe even just the target month?


That can't be right. The exploiters keep telling us exploits hurt no one. Was that not true??? I feel so deceived! ;p "This is why we can't have nice things..."

admiralakbar
04-29-2014, 01:17 PM
Scale all XP (+20%) until sagas get fixed.

Otherwise,
I don't want to do reincarnations = I don't want to buy reincarnation items + I don't want to buy XP pots + I don't want to play

You guys made the decision to make sagas a big part of reincarnating and then you let them be "broken".


This comes when I was deciding whether or not to renew VIP for a year+... guess not...

League of Legends had bonus IP this weekend and a rune page sale coming up... just sayin.

Seikojin
04-29-2014, 01:31 PM
I doubt this takes longer to fix than any other bug/exploit that was repaired with a hotfix. My guess is that somebody at Turbine said "good thing we can deactivate sagas, so why fix them now when we can just as well shut them down and fix them whenever we feel like it".

And I agree with you, it's things like this that add up and will influence the decision whether or not I will renew my subscription when the time comes.

Or more like "We just rolled out this hotfix and lookie here, big sploit. Lets shut sagas off until we can fix it" A day later, "looks like it will take a while to fix properly, let's put it on the U22 schedule."

I know for a fact that if it was something that was easy to fix, they would hotfix it.

Drevok
04-29-2014, 01:38 PM
We expect Sagas to remain in unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

This is FAR too long!
If a full fix will take that long, how about just disabling the select reward portion? So at least we can start sagas and review how we are doing?

Sagas have become quite important for them just to be fully turned off for a long time.

dunklezhan
04-29-2014, 02:04 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Of course they won't. I just decided to try to complete one for the very first time.

Le sigh.

Seikojin
04-29-2014, 02:11 PM
Of course they won't. I just decided to try to complete one for the very first time.

Le sigh.

Just think of it like this, do the quests and get a big turn in when they do come back. :) Grind a good xp pot too.

Dark_Helmet
04-29-2014, 02:43 PM
Can I just say if this has anything to do with an exploit .....how bout we turn it back on for the 95% of your players who are honest and don't exploit then hammer the exploiters to the wall.

I am not an IT guy but I have enough knowledge to sound stupid to IT guys but smart to other people....so this may be simplifying things but can you put a monitor on certain database fields/combinations (ie. skill tomes, XP rewards from sagas) and if a single character gets multiples in a short period of time that it flags that account and a human comes along and follows up with a large ban hammer in tow.

See sounds reasonable but some IT guy will come along and tell me I am an idiot.
Technically, it can be done, but that person is long gone from the dev team.


If they could do that, do you think they would have turned them off in the first place?
Yes. They usually take and use the biggest hammer they can find. Later on, they try to find a more subtle fix... or let it fester under the bandaid.

twigzz
04-29-2014, 02:45 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Wow!.......

Ivan_Milic
04-29-2014, 02:50 PM
Bummer on the duration. But I think U22 will be launched at the end of may or beginning of june

First it has to get on lam, then at least a month till it hits live, so end of may unlikely.

Grosbeak07
04-29-2014, 02:50 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Not acceptable.

You guys will move mountains to fix something that benefits players. Yet can't seem to get this fixed?

20% Epic XP until they are back is the only fair compromise at this point.

Nédime
04-29-2014, 02:57 PM
Not acceptable.

You guys will move mountains to fix something that benefits players. Yet can't seem to get this fixed?

20% Epic XP until they are back is the only fair compromise at this point.

20% on ALL XP, please I used to run GH twice a life and sometimes even Peril of Cormyr on heroics.


Don't like to be the whining guy but you realise how bad a signal it is when everyone is complaining about bugs, sploits, server population decrease, and the overeal lack of Turbine reactivity ... to close something because of a sploit then prove there's not enough staff to fix it quickly and pospone it to next update.

Yalinaa
04-29-2014, 03:12 PM
They should pay back the money players spent on their latest expansion as well, 'cause with no sagas, noone will run Wheloon / Stormhorn anymore. The comms / min is so much better with the likes of Demands, Graveyard, Rusted blades, Death undone, Demonweb shorties etc., without the sagas that expansion is just buried to death. Nice decision by Turbine.

CaptainSpacePony
04-29-2014, 03:26 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

OooffF! Much longer than expected but thanks for the update.

How about some juicy bonus days to offset the hit to XP and renown?

Llewndyn
04-29-2014, 04:54 PM
This is totally unacceptable.

I just completed every saga, but decided to wait a week or two in case we got a Renown Boost Weekend before TRing. Now I'm stuck at cap with nothing to run and I can't collect my rewards. Why should something like this take so long to fix? This is yet another system implemented into DDO which was obviously not fully tested. Instead of punishing the average players, maybe you should think about focusing on punishing those who take advantage of your buggy code by exploiting.

I can thank you for the post though Cordovan. My subscription renewal comes up in 10 days and you have just helped me make the decision not to renew.

I also completed every saga, 4 times in fact, yesterday, on my level 10 sorcerer.

I also enjoy the "It's such buggy cr*p code" but the instant it's taken down you scream bollocks.

Please ramp up the "Doo0o00oo0ommm!!!11!!11!!11!!" as my popcorn is getting cold and the fake butter on it turns toxic when it reaches room temperature.

CaptainSpacePony
04-29-2014, 05:00 PM
They should pay back the money players spent on their latest expansion as well, 'cause with no sagas, noone will run Wheloon / Stormhorn anymore. The comms / min is so much better with the likes of Demands, Graveyard, Rusted blades, Death undone, Demonweb shorties etc., without the sagas that expansion is just buried to death. Nice decision by Turbine.

I don't understand your argument. You reference comms/minute, but sagas don't give comms. Suspending sagas suppresses, skill tomes, xp, and renown, but does nothing to comms.

I run stormhorns daily, for the xp and loot.

Thumbed_Servant
04-29-2014, 05:03 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

TY. This is AWFUL news, but it is GOOD to get the information.

mikarddo
04-29-2014, 05:03 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Please reconsider. Sagas have become a core feature and their missing will hurt your income as fewer people care to epic TR without saga xp.

BOgre
04-29-2014, 05:14 PM
I also completed every saga, 4 times in fact, yesterday, on my level 10 sorcerer.

I also enjoy the "It's such buggy cr*p code" but the instant it's taken down you scream bollocks.

Please ramp up the "Doo0o00oo0ommm!!!11!!11!!11!!" as my popcorn is getting cold and the fake butter on it turns toxic when it reaches room temperature.

All hyperbole aside, he does have a point. I didn't 'just' get here or there, and my plans are usually pretty vague and more often than not they change from hour to minute.... but having Sagas down for such an extended period does put a kink in what plans I DO have. We predicted these repeated, inconvenient Saga take-downs back when they were introduced, or at least back when they came down the first time... And here we are, what, 3rd time now? 4th? It's a G.D. miracle we didn't get stuck with Saga-only CoV....

But seriously, how long do we have to put up with this "helps players = hotfix. Hurts players = maybe someday" mentality? Cord, you certainly don't owe me any favors, but would you PUH-LEEEEZ take this to management: WE'RE FED UP WITH THIS POLICY. High visibility issues, like quest closures, bugs affecting XP, Favor, Renown, etc, should never get pushed back to "someday" or "next update". They require instant attention and ASAP hotfix. Pay for some O.T. or whatever, but get it done.

@ProdMalph: As your 1st public order of business, how about you jump in here and make some customers happy.

zeonardo
04-29-2014, 05:16 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

DDO Bonus Days untill then?

golruul
04-29-2014, 05:25 PM
I mainly use sagas for leveling my guild. If there was an exploit with the experience reward, please consider a workaround of disabling only that portion (or setting the experience rewarded to zero).

Sagas are a big milestone in character achievement and one of the clear high-points of the updates. For me, disabling sagas as a whole has the same effect as raid rewards not working correctly -- a huge incentive to play is gone.

I guess I'm one of the few people that buys ETR hearts and guild renown potions. Since I won't bother leveling anymore, I won't be buying either of these items. I also won't be renewing VIP at least until it's fixed (or workaround is done).

XiaNYdE
04-29-2014, 05:34 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Really?? Is this a joke?? you broke them and can't fix them for what is probably going to be months?? so turn on something you haven't broken 20% bonus to all guild renown and xp until such time as you can fix them should do.

NaturalHazard
04-29-2014, 05:46 PM
So if you CAN fix it quickly, I strongly recommend that you do so. If you can't, I suggest making an apology and granting a 10% heroic and epic xp, guild renown, and Covs until it is fixed. That I know you CAN do, and I believe you should do. It will greatly reduce the annoyance of the player base..

This is a good idea, saga's is a big loss i was going to hand some in I had completed and was close to finishing some others then wham, its a lot of xp I was going to use to get my alts off destinies leveled up a bit and to get some more fate points but now it seems like wasted effort. More ill feeling is not what this game needs.

Alizar
04-29-2014, 06:14 PM
I mainly use sagas for leveling my guild. If there was an exploit with the experience reward, please consider a workaround of disabling only that portion (or setting the experience rewarded to zero).

Sagas are a big milestone in character achievement and one of the clear high-points of the updates. For me, disabling sagas as a whole has the same effect as raid rewards not working correctly -- a huge incentive to play is gone.

I guess I'm one of the few people that buys ETR hearts and guild renown potions. Since I won't bother leveling anymore, I won't be buying either of these items. I also won't be renewing VIP at least until it's fixed (or workaround is done).


Wow they finally found a way to get me to STOP playing DDO. Been an avid player since 07 and haven't played since Sagas went down. Sagas gave me an incentive to keep playing with all the obvious problems that DDO is suffering through. I've spent thousands on this game over the years... I bet you close to 10K :D I think this latest issue is the final straw for me. Time to move on from PC games I guess.

Maudib_360
04-29-2014, 07:51 PM
I also completed every saga, 4 times in fact, yesterday, on my level 10 sorcerer.

I also enjoy the "It's such buggy cr*p code" but the instant it's taken down you scream bollocks.

Please ramp up the "Doo0o00oo0ommm!!!11!!11!!11!!" as my popcorn is getting cold and the fake butter on it turns toxic when it reaches room temperature.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440640-Guild-Renown-Elixers-and-Saga-Rewards

Careful not to choke on your foot.

Arcanghakhyorsarthel
04-29-2014, 08:02 PM
well....prior to sagas....we just did quests...we just did slayers. We completed chains.

A few players out there found a way to do something to get an extra reward taken from us. Was this reward worth it to the general population of the game? Durned right it was.

So...the rest of us pay for the sins of a few until this gets fixed.

Something that's become a part of the game with high gain all around can't be used for a while.

right then.

I'm not going to quit. To me that's a bit senseless. I'm not going to rage about it either.

In the past I've not agreed with a few things that have happened within game that affected my toons. Those toons have either been TR'd to something else or outright deleted so that I can continue enjoying this game.

The players that have contributed to these escapades....no...not going to go there.

I'm just going to go play now.

Thrudh
04-29-2014, 09:22 PM
Wow they finally found a way to get me to STOP playing DDO. Been an avid player since 07 and haven't played since Sagas went down. Sagas gave me an incentive to keep playing with all the obvious problems that DDO is suffering through. I've spent thousands on this game over the years... I bet you close to 10K :D I think this latest issue is the final straw for me. Time to move on from PC games I guess.

This one wins the Internet... The ONLY reason this guy kept playing DDO was because sagas were so awesome...

In fact the only reason he even owns a PC is because sagas were so good.

Heh. :)

SeaWolf925
04-29-2014, 10:37 PM
I was opposed to Saga's being the only way to get comms. I have been running a lot of Saga's for ETR and filling in off character destinies. I am not into grinding EDS and have been Heroic TR'ing to fill these destinies albeit slowly and working in my past lives. I was gong to renew my VIP membership; now I will not. I however will reconsider this when the game is functioning the way that I have been playing it. Until then I will work on some of my alts (less then level 20) and build up my turbine points. I normally do not do any ES quests until after level 20 (I really do enjoy the Epic version of GH) and have never used saga's below level 20. I am used to playing this game the way it was and have not changed my style, everything in Eberron was below level 21 and everything in ES was above level 20. There is plenty of xp in the game now that this is not an issue and with bravery bonus I run elites not the way I used to play (3 at normal, 1 at hard and 1 at elite). It's really disappointing when a game that I have been playing is no longer playable the way that I have been playing and enjoying it. This really puts a crimp in playing the best and only game that I presently play on the internet, maybe I should go back to Baldurs Gate the stand alone version. :(

Ilindith
04-30-2014, 12:20 AM
Quality work, as always.

blerkington
04-30-2014, 12:39 AM
Hi,

It would be really nice if in the brave fight against the naughty exploiters Turbine was able to avoid harming the rest of their population as well.

All of this extreme prejudice business is harming your whole population, not just the people who you think are duping items and performing other exploits.

You guys need to work much harder at avoiding collateral damage to the majority of your player base which I assume is behaving itself.

If you can't actually get your fixes done promptly and effectively, maybe it's time to start doing more for your players by way of an apology for degrading their gaming experience.

A period of bonus xp, guild renown, and loot boosts would be a damn good start.

Thanks.

Pandir
04-30-2014, 03:08 AM
This one wins the Internet... The ONLY reason this guy kept playing DDO was because sagas were so awesome...

In fact the only reason he even owns a PC is because sagas were so good.

Heh. :)

Sarcasm aside the disabling of sagas for possibly months is more jarring than some think.
I'm hardly gonna quit about it, but my interest in playing has been somewhat diminished.
I've been leveling my guild with sagas woven into ETR, by disabling the sagas you basically took away one progression path for me at the moment.
If you're on the edge with the game anyways stuff like this might drive you over.

And yeah **** happens and if the sagas would be down a week or two, oh well. But months ?

BOgre
04-30-2014, 03:16 AM
well....prior to sagas....we just did quests...we just did slayers. We completed chains.

A few players out there found a way to do something to get an extra reward taken from us. Was this reward worth it to the general population of the game? Durned right it was.

So...the rest of us pay for the sins of a few until this gets fixed.

Something that's become a part of the game with high gain all around can't be used for a while.

right then.

I'm not going to quit. To me that's a bit senseless. I'm not going to rage about it either.

In the past I've not agreed with a few things that have happened within game that affected my toons. Those toons have either been TR'd to something else or outright deleted so that I can continue enjoying this game.

The players that have contributed to these escapades....no...not going to go there.

I'm just going to go play now.

laissez faire is all well and good, and probably a nice way to avoid stress, but Sagas (and every other current game feature) are part of the product we're paying for. It's not out of line to want that fixed and to stop spending until it is.

But you're right; Not quitting, going to go play too.

Nédime
04-30-2014, 06:01 AM
Hi,

It would be really nice if in the brave fight against the naughty exploiters Turbine was able to avoid harming the rest of their population as well.



Is called collateral damage.
:confused:

poltt48
04-30-2014, 06:17 AM
Unless they changed it without telling us U22 suppose to come out end of June time frame. So that means 2 months without sagas.

Arcanghakhyorsarthel
04-30-2014, 06:44 AM
laissez faire is all well and good, and probably a nice way to avoid stress, but Sagas (and every other current game feature) are part of the product we're paying for. It's not out of line to want that fixed and to stop spending until it is.

But you're right; Not quitting, going to go play too.

yar....I agree that the sagas are part of the product that we pay for in this game. At epic level, especially for ETRs, they are an invaluable source of xp and skill boost (if one so desires). One can only hope that someone on the upper management level decides to make the appropriate decision to repair the issue and mete out an appropriate justice to those that abused the system, and make reparations to the players that continue to uphold an ethical playstyle by not abusing the game mechanics.

I had to change my strategy on how I was going to play my main toon and quite possibly my other toons for the hopefully-short-term in light of this recent...development. Originally, it was going to be multiple ETRs on many of my toons. Not going to go that route now and will complete herioc TR's instead. Lower cost on my part since I've got the tokens to do so. I'll have to get to the ETRs some other time.

*shrug

c'est la vie

Derana
04-30-2014, 06:47 AM
Scale all XP (+20%) until sagas get fixed.

Otherwise,
I don't want to do reincarnations = I don't want to buy reincarnation items + I don't want to buy XP pots + I don't want to play

You guys made the decision to make sagas a big part of reincarnating and then you let them be "broken".


This comes when I was deciding whether or not to renew VIP for a year+... guess not...

League of Legends had bonus IP this weekend and a rune page sale coming up... just sayin.

Considering that TR is the only thing left to do, again -- thanks to raid timers and bound to character on equip loot that makes new packs obsolete 2 weeks after its release because everyone either bought or grinded their way through the pack and so doesn't have to play it anymore -- taking out Saga's for like two months is a major harm to my playstyle. I use Saga exp to get from 20 to almost 23 after epic tr'ing because 20-23 is a pain to level, in my opinion. At the moment I am iconic tr'ing because I need some past lives but once these are done, I don't really know what to do either because I don't wanna do 20-23 without first time bonus xp.

I also don't understand why Turbine can do hotfixes when there's a major (enter the unspeakable and therefore bannable word here) going on that is hurting Turbine's store sales.. But when it's something that is not bringing money directly into Turbine's pockets, it can be turned off for months?!

lifestaker
04-30-2014, 08:36 AM
you know the player base has changed in years fallowing the WB and f2p turnover, but really people? Quitting/ saying you are quitting over sagas? Are you completely out of reasonable mindset or just calling out for people to give you attention? Many things have happened to the game over the years to include 3 years with no new content, retroactive item/feat/enhancement changes that destroy builds, server merges, and broccoli added to the game. But, sagas being DISABLED it the top of your list of OHHHH NOOOOOOs. Get real. ya something was not working as the devs planned, or some people found a way to get more then intended. IT HAPPENS. The game didn't break and it is only one feature of thousands in the game that got temporary disabled, so get over it.

When people say they are quitting over things like this they do so under the mindset that them saying they are gonna leave actually means something. IT DON'T. Can suck when people leave but that is a player mindset, from a company mind it hurts but you know you can rebound from it given the history of the turnover within the game. Most of the time the 'fix or else' people do leave for one reason or another (I can still remember 3 people leaving over +3 tomes added to the store), but they always come back when something new is added. Normally a returning player invests more into the game then a new player or a continued player, mainly due to returners wanting everything they missed.

Regardless of how hurt you are over sagas, or how little you care about them, ya TEMPORARILY disabled content always is right at your level range (if WW went down you would have just TRd and were planning on running it). But, who cares in the long run. When shroud went down due to DI people were lost because there was no other content to run in the game, now people don't even run shroud like before. Far to many grow complacent on running the same thing every day/week as a way to get what they want to such a degree that all other content is for naught. At least people didn't get carpet banned for no reason, perma-banned for no reason, or characters deleted with 'reasonable suspicion'.

'Sagas are why I own a computer' people need to get real.
'Sagas are the reason I play DDO' people forget that sagas are not that old.
'Sagas make me breakfast in the morning and keep we warm at night' people might need more help then I want to go into ATM.
'Broccoli is awesome, love the Broccoli' people just make me sick. HAM it. It is LFH. It is TASTEY HAM. Broccoli is just a Mystical Plant, has nothing on pork barrels.




*TL;DR*
If you leave over sagas then meh.
If you stay over sagas then meh.
If you like pizza then you're okay in my book.
If you cry a river that drowns others then you did it right.

madmaxhunter
04-30-2014, 08:50 AM
*snip*

'Sagas are why I own a computer' people need to get real.
'Sagas are the reason I play DDO' people forget that sagas are not that old.
'Sagas make me breakfast in the morning and keep we warm at night' people might need more help then I want to go into ATM.
'Broccoli is awesome, love the Broccoli' people just make me sick. HAM it. It is LFH. It is TASTEY HAM. Broccoli is just a Mystical Plant, has nothing on pork barrels.




*TL;DR*
If you leave over sagas then meh.
If you stay over sagas then meh.
If you like pizza then you're okay in my book.
If you cry a river that drowns others then you did it right.

Nice simplification of player anger. It's not Sagas. It's a tipping point. As a person my decisions are based on pros and cons. That's human nature. Once the cons outweigh the pros, decisions need to be made. No one would leave a perfect game because of a single bug. When the bugs/exploits/bad decisions, makes the game no longer worth playing, they leave.

I'm not leaving. I'm not raging. I do think some kind of experience/renown bonus would show the players Turbine understands.

lifestaker
04-30-2014, 09:39 AM
Nice simplification of player anger. It's not Sagas. It's a tipping point. As a person my decisions are based on pros and cons. That's human nature. Once the cons outweigh the pros, decisions need to be made. No one would leave a perfect game because of a single bug. When the bugs/exploits/bad decisions, makes the game no longer worth playing, they leave.

I'm not leaving. I'm not raging. I do think some kind of experience/renown bonus would show the players Turbine understands.

I can understand the bonus desire, yes it would be nice but is not needed on Turbine's end.
If they gave away a free xp pot to everyone for this people would be happy, make that pot a coupon they would be mad again.
Give people a guild pot then people be happy, make it less then 200000000000000000% then people would rage again.
Add Tacos to the game people would be happy, offer only beef hard shell and people would turn homicidal.
If they made any lasting change till update then would nil the need for said item out of the store, even though they stack, and would risk a lower yield in funds gained while the event is active. Not to mention a lasting event of even 10% all xp would be accepted as the norm, resulting in people ranting when said 10% went away.

Turbine does a lot of changes to the game for the players more often then we realize. Both for the good and bad. People automatically think that when they loose something that it is punishment either directly or indirectly. Regardless if it was due to an exploited mechanic of the game or a simple bit of code being mucked up while adding/working on a fix. People think that their self righteous entitlement demands the possession of whatever they lost out on. Sorry, but saga or any extras added to the game does not break the game, just makes people want them more when they can't have them. Adding something as trivial as saga's going down to the multitude of other reasons for leaving a game is just an easy out. If something that small would make someone leave a game, after in many cases of years playing, then those people needed to walk away already and wanted a reason.

Selfishness, greed, and this pedestal mentality that people develop over time is not by accident. We gain that by being rewarded for simple things given to us for actions we have done. Flying spaghetti monsters aside people should just play the GAME if they want to, not because they are rewarded for playing the game. The this for that mindset demands rewards for the loss of sagas when in all actuality the sagas were already a reward for running said quests. Sagas encouraged people to get packs they didn't have, to the degree of buying expansions for this one. Though sagas in many cases were but a footnote originally, now they are the header to the argument.

Do you raise the option for turbine to refund the expansion due to the saga not being there now with the saga being entire reason for the expansion being bought in the first place? If they did refund the money and removed the expansion from your account along with the gear/xp/renown gained from it would you then demand to have it all back for free? That is more of the twisted entitlement instilled by the flying spaghetti monsters played out for personal gain, when in all actuality you don't gain a thing while playing a digital game online.



*TL;DR*
You're paying to play with someones toys, the longer you play with them the more extras they let you put on the toys, don't start thinking the toys are yours.
Sometimes you can't get all the accessories you want for you toys, don't think that those accessories are yours to start with and you will not create an issue.
Demanding/threatening for things only makes people less willing to let you play with their toys.
Nerf wars are fun so long as you have a Nerf gun, but can be fun with a paintball gun.

Gljosh
04-30-2014, 10:41 AM
I can understand the bonus desire, yes it would be nice but is not needed on Turbine's end.
If they gave away a free xp pot to everyone for this people would be happy, make that pot a coupon they would be mad again.
Give people a guild pot then people be happy, make it less then 200000000000000000% then people would rage again.
Add Tacos to the game people would be happy, offer only beef hard shell and people would turn homicidal.
If they made any lasting change till update then would nil the need for said item out of the store, even though they stack, and would risk a lower yield in funds gained while the event is active. Not to mention a lasting event of even 10% all xp would be accepted as the norm, resulting in people ranting when said 10% went away.

Turbine does a lot of changes to the game for the players more often then we realize. Both for the good and bad. People automatically think that when they loose something that it is punishment either directly or indirectly. Regardless if it was due to an exploited mechanic of the game or a simple bit of code being mucked up while adding/working on a fix. People think that their self righteous entitlement demands the possession of whatever they lost out on. Sorry, but saga or any extras added to the game does not break the game, just makes people want them more when they can't have them. Adding something as trivial as saga's going down to the multitude of other reasons for leaving a game is just an easy out. If something that small would make someone leave a game, after in many cases of years playing, then those people needed to walk away already and wanted a reason.

Selfishness, greed, and this pedestal mentality that people develop over time is not by accident. We gain that by being rewarded for simple things given to us for actions we have done. Flying spaghetti monsters aside people should just play the GAME if they want to, not because they are rewarded for playing the game. The this for that mindset demands rewards for the loss of sagas when in all actuality the sagas were already a reward for running said quests. Sagas encouraged people to get packs they didn't have, to the degree of buying expansions for this one. Though sagas in many cases were but a footnote originally, now they are the header to the argument.

Do you raise the option for turbine to refund the expansion due to the saga not being there now with the saga being entire reason for the expansion being bought in the first place? If they did refund the money and removed the expansion from your account along with the gear/xp/renown gained from it would you then demand to have it all back for free? That is more of the twisted entitlement instilled by the flying spaghetti monsters played out for personal gain, when in all actuality you don't gain a thing while playing a digital game online.



*TL;DR*
You're paying to play with someones toys, the longer you play with them the more extras they let you put on the toys, don't start thinking the toys are yours.
Sometimes you can't get all the accessories you want for you toys, don't think that those accessories are yours to start with and you will not create an issue.
Demanding/threatening for things only makes people less willing to let you play with their toys.
Nerf wars are fun so long as you have a Nerf gun, but can be fun with a paintball gun.

Ok lets be serious, as I ETR, Sagas are pretty decent amount of XP (easily 15% of my total XP gain). I use Saga XP to level off destinies and achieve my goal of TRing at a faster rate. After you have run the quest and have no bravery or first time bonuses, gaining XP takes significantly more time. So the hamster wheel begins to slow down, without Sagas the wheel moves even slower. If you are leaning towards leaving the game because the rate of progression is slowing down, removing Sagas could be the tipping point. Players complain that the rate of progression is slow, XP curve gets adjusted, Bravery Bonus, and Sagas get added. After you ETR, the XP amount is the same, Bravery Bonuses are gone, and now we don't have Sagas. Thus players (whom were formerly ok, with lag, little end game, declining player base, bugged quests, etc.) are focusing on the negatives again. I was tempted to buy Turbine Points during the double bonus time and do the 15 month VIP plan. Then I remembered all the issues the game has and decided against the double points, but was on the fence about the 15 month. This new issue made that decision easy, no VIP for me. I have purchased enough Packs, both Expansions, Otto's Boxes, and VIP'd for 6 months. I have supported Turbine and been burned a few times. So for now I will be a true FTPlayer, I have enough Tokens and CoVs to make a completionist and enough quests to earn enough Favor to get whatever else I would like.

Llewndyn
04-30-2014, 12:33 PM
All hyperbole aside, he does have a point. I didn't 'just' get here or there, and my plans are usually pretty vague and more often than not they change from hour to minute.... but having Sagas down for such an extended period does put a kink in what plans I DO have. We predicted these repeated, inconvenient Saga take-downs back when they were introduced, or at least back when they came down the first time... And here we are, what, 3rd time now? 4th? It's a G.D. miracle we didn't get stuck with Saga-only CoV....

But seriously, how long do we have to put up with this "helps players = hotfix. Hurts players = maybe someday" mentality? Cord, you certainly don't owe me any favors, but would you PUH-LEEEEZ take this to management: WE'RE FED UP WITH THIS POLICY. High visibility issues, like quest closures, bugs affecting XP, Favor, Renown, etc, should never get pushed back to "someday" or "next update". They require instant attention and ASAP hotfix. Pay for some O.T. or whatever, but get it done.

@ProdMalph: As your 1st public order of business, how about you jump in here and make some customers happy.

I love Brian Regan. Anyway, I just thought it was kind of funny that ALL these people had JUST finished doing a saga or a bunch of sagas, and were inexplicably waiting for.... something. Really?! If my wife needs me to come pick her up because her car broke down, I STILL take the extra 45 seconds to run and turn in my saga before I log off (I'm kidding, but you get the picture)!

I would jump on the 30% xp bandwagon, but thought a little comity in the face of the impending unstoppable rebel force of "DOOOOMMMMM!!!!!" would be better ;)

Llewndyn
04-30-2014, 12:38 PM
This one wins the Internet... The ONLY reason this guy kept playing DDO was because sagas were so awesome...

In fact the only reason he even owns a PC is because sagas were so good.

Heh. :)

I love the logic. Sounds a lot like the "They nerfed *ability* now I'll never play the game agaaaiiinn Waaahhhmbulance!" that seems to pervade these forums (and before anyone jumps on me, yes, I've done it too and realized how lame it looks)

Nédime
04-30-2014, 01:29 PM
Sorry, but saga or any extras added to the game does not break the game, just makes people want them more when they can't have them. Adding something as trivial as saga's going down to the multitude of other reasons for leaving a game is just an easy out. If something that small would make someone leave a game, after in many cases of years playing, then those people needed to walk away already and wanted a reason.



Come on you may have noticed (unless your spot skill really sux) some things are not going very well in this game (this game that we love very much btw otherwise there wouldn't be any whining we'd just leave). And that the amount of things not going so well is slowly but steadily increasing.

lifestaker
04-30-2014, 04:33 PM
Come on you may have noticed (unless your spot skill really sux) some things are not going very well in this game (this game that we love very much btw otherwise there wouldn't be any whining we'd just leave). And that the amount of things not going so well is slowly but steadily increasing.

short version:

I can get where you say things are going downhill in some areas, but other things are going better then one could hope.


long version:

b4;now
tickets took hours to be answered and issue normally unsolvable; (in-game)tickets fixed timely with little issue,
downtime took hours; downtime takes hours
updates were yearly at best and always broke Abbot; updates quarterly, abbot still breaks
Tacos not in game; Tacos not in game
Events broke servers; Events break the event
Events banned servers; Events ban anti taco people
forums post regarding issues never saw a dev/moderator comment; issue threads normally started by them
half-elves not in game; we wish half-elves were not in game

Just saying there are good and bad every time something happens in game, look at the bad you see bad. So long as people think it is an issue people make it a bigger one. This is but an anthill. I don't see people saying they are quitting the game over the hall of the mark being closed, or that the weekly DDO store coupon not helping their characters, or they didn't get a +6 tome from the traveler.

Everyone has a tipping point, yes.
Everyone has different interests in the game, yes.
Everyone has issues with the game, yes.
Everyone finds something to complain about daily, sad to say but yes again.

My issue is with the people who take ez outs to leave the game, but go on the forums and cry out about it. If you don't like an issue just don't play, don't come on and make it seem like you would stay if something went your way, because you would just find another reason to stop playing in a few weeks anyways. If you don't like the issues in the game then find another. If 20% of the players left over this then you can be sure turbine would see it, and not give a hoot. Why, because those lost accounts are most likely gonna play more, invest more, and in many cases reactivate. So in quitting all you might have done was find another hobby for yourself, I recommend studying up on programming so you can find mistakes you make and how easy you looked over them, or watch the IT Crowd. Turbine as a company does not suffer from a lost account, or even 20% of them. You need to realize that so long as old school players are around with old geared out characters and new players come in and see it, the newer player will invest to get like the old player. Investing time and money to get what they can. A player who owns all content and plays well makes Turbine what $8-$15 a month if they don't get points. A new player makes them the same and then some by getting the points, packs, and normally getting others to try the game with them.

Cardtrick
04-30-2014, 05:23 PM
Anyway, I just thought it was kind of funny that ALL these people had JUST finished doing a saga or a bunch of sagas, and were inexplicably waiting for.... something. Really?

This actually isn't inexplicable, though. It may not have been the original intention of the developers, but a big part of the reason so many people care about sagas now is that you can store your completions and turn them in later. This lets you do 2 things:

1. Wait to turn in all your sagas at once so you can drink the biggest XP potion you have before hand and apply it to all of them

2. Wait and turn in sagas after an eTR, to immediately give you more than a million XP (up to 1.4 million, if they were all EEs and you used all available bonuses) and skip the first couple of levels, letting you put on your higher level gear sooner

Thar
04-30-2014, 06:07 PM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

What is the ETA of U22? this is holding up ETRing! I need my saga rewards to get through 21!

Alizar
04-30-2014, 07:01 PM
Nice simplification of player anger. It's not Sagas. It's a tipping point. As a person my decisions are based on pros and cons. That's human nature. Once the cons outweigh the pros, decisions need to be made. No one would leave a perfect game because of a single bug. When the bugs/exploits/bad decisions, makes the game no longer worth playing, they leave.

I'm not leaving. I'm not raging. I do think some kind of experience/renown bonus would show the players Turbine understands.

THIS ^^^ well put. It was my tipping point. I have cancelled my sub and wife is happy. I say that's it for PC games due to the fact that DDO was the only one I liked to play.

Oxarhamar
04-30-2014, 07:02 PM
What is the ETA of U22? this is holding up ETRing! I need my saga rewards to get through 21!

don't hold your breath U22 still needs to hit Lamania and be tested before it hits live.

If you plan to ETR best to just get on with it run some Wizking, Von3, whatever XP quests you like to replace the saga reward.

Gljosh
04-30-2014, 08:01 PM
short version:

I can get where you say things are going downhill in some areas, but other things are going better then one could hope.


long version:

b4;now
tickets took hours to be answered and issue normally unsolvable; (in-game)tickets fixed timely with little issue,
downtime took hours; downtime takes hours
updates were yearly at best and always broke Abbot; updates quarterly, abbot still breaks
Tacos not in game; Tacos not in game
Events broke servers; Events break the event
Events banned servers; Events ban anti taco people
forums post regarding issues never saw a dev/moderator comment; issue threads normally started by them
half-elves not in game; we wish half-elves were not in game

Just saying there are good and bad every time something happens in game, look at the bad you see bad. So long as people think it is an issue people make it a bigger one. This is but an anthill. I don't see people saying they are quitting the game over the hall of the mark being closed, or that the weekly DDO store coupon not helping their characters, or they didn't get a +6 tome from the traveler.

Everyone has a tipping point, yes.
Everyone has different interests in the game, yes.
Everyone has issues with the game, yes.
Everyone finds something to complain about daily, sad to say but yes again.

My issue is with the people who take ez outs to leave the game, but go on the forums and cry out about it. If you don't like an issue just don't play, don't come on and make it seem like you would stay if something went your way, because you would just find another reason to stop playing in a few weeks anyways. If you don't like the issues in the game then find another. If 20% of the players left over this then you can be sure turbine would see it, and not give a hoot. Why, because those lost accounts are most likely gonna play more, invest more, and in many cases reactivate. So in quitting all you might have done was find another hobby for yourself, I recommend studying up on programming so you can find mistakes you make and how easy you looked over them, or watch the IT Crowd. Turbine as a company does not suffer from a lost account, or even 20% of them. You need to realize that so long as old school players are around with old geared out characters and new players come in and see it, the newer player will invest to get like the old player. Investing time and money to get what they can. A player who owns all content and plays well makes Turbine what $8-$15 a month if they don't get points. A new player makes them the same and then some by getting the points, packs, and normally getting others to try the game with them.

So the short version, "Hey, man things used to be a lot worse!" There exists a flaw in your reasoning though, if older players leave, new players have very little guidance. Very little guidance in this game means players will leave, probably before they are close enough to buy a pack. If older players leave, there are less LFMs.

Thrudh
04-30-2014, 08:57 PM
This actually isn't inexplicable, though. It may not have been the original intention of the developers, but a big part of the reason so many people care about sagas now is that you can store your completions and turn them in later. This lets you do 2 things:

1. Wait to turn in all your sagas at once so you can drink the biggest XP potion you have before hand and apply it to all of them

2. Wait and turn in sagas after an eTR, to immediately give you more than a million XP (up to 1.4 million, if they were all EEs and you used all available bonuses) and skip the first couple of levels, letting you put on your higher level gear sooner

Yeah, I save my sagas for my epic TRs, and I too had 4-5 completed and saved when they were disabled.

It is annoying, and I'm not happy that they are waiting until Update 22 to fix the issue. I think it's a very poor decision.

But it is what it is.

LadyKoneko
05-01-2014, 02:20 AM
We expect Sagas to remain unavailable until the release of Update 22. Sorry!

Aren't we glad saga's ARE NOT tied to (and the only) way to get CoVs...

ValenGodspeed
05-01-2014, 04:58 AM
Aren't we glad saga's ARE NOT tied to (and the only) way to get CoVs...

This a million times!
Fortunately I have a crapload of characters to level still. Guess ill be getting every project I ever made to 28 while we wait for Tubine to fix sagas. *Sigh*

Llewndyn
05-01-2014, 08:56 AM
you know the player base has changed in years fallowing the WB and f2p turnover, but really people? Quitting/ saying you are quitting over sagas? Are you completely out of reasonable mindset or just calling out for people to give you attention? Many things have happened to the game over the years to include 3 years with no new content, retroactive item/feat/enhancement changes that destroy builds, server merges, and broccoli added to the game. But, sagas being DISABLED it the top of your list of OHHHH NOOOOOOs. Get real. ya something was not working as the devs planned, or some people found a way to get more then intended. IT HAPPENS. The game didn't break and it is only one feature of thousands in the game that got temporary disabled, so get over it.

When people say they are quitting over things like this they do so under the mindset that them saying they are gonna leave actually means something. IT DON'T. Can suck when people leave but that is a player mindset, from a company mind it hurts but you know you can rebound from it given the history of the turnover within the game. Most of the time the 'fix or else' people do leave for one reason or another (I can still remember 3 people leaving over +3 tomes added to the store), but they always come back when something new is added. Normally a returning player invests more into the game then a new player or a continued player, mainly due to returners wanting everything they missed.

Regardless of how hurt you are over sagas, or how little you care about them, ya TEMPORARILY disabled content always is right at your level range (if WW went down you would have just TRd and were planning on running it). But, who cares in the long run. When shroud went down due to DI people were lost because there was no other content to run in the game, now people don't even run shroud like before. Far to many grow complacent on running the same thing every day/week as a way to get what they want to such a degree that all other content is for naught. At least people didn't get carpet banned for no reason, perma-banned for no reason, or characters deleted with 'reasonable suspicion'.

'Sagas are why I own a computer' people need to get real.
'Sagas are the reason I play DDO' people forget that sagas are not that old.
'Sagas make me breakfast in the morning and keep we warm at night' people might need more help then I want to go into ATM.
'Broccoli is awesome, love the Broccoli' people just make me sick. HAM it. It is LFH. It is TASTEY HAM. Broccoli is just a Mystical Plant, has nothing on pork barrels.




*TL;DR*
If you leave over sagas then meh.
If you stay over sagas then meh.
If you like pizza then you're okay in my book.
If you cry a river that drowns others then you did it right.

The part about "If they took WW down you all would have just TRed and been ready to run it" is dead on. Someone else posted he had done every saga and was waiting for a bonus weekend, then linked how he had asked about a bonus weekend before as proof it was all coincidence. That and a piece of fried chicken will at least get you a full stomach.

I don't believe for a second that ALL these people had JUST finished a saga, then decided not to turn it in and log off, if sagas were THAT important to them. I like doing the GH saga. When I read that they are down, I was like "Oh noooo".... then went back to running Necro II quests. That was it. Done.

It sucks. It really does. I'll also concede maybe giving us some kind of treat, like the +20% XP, would be a very nice gesture. But coming on here and saying "I'll never play again I hate Turbine NoooOoOooOooOO!!!!!" when you have a join date of 2007 and a history of saying this same thing over and over and over, isn't going to get you where you think it will. Take a look at the big picture. This is the best MMO on the market, with the best community (as can be proven by the fact that there are few, if any, drama threads), the most immersive quests (Go play 2Moons for a week and kill 10 rats, then 1000 warriors, then 2000 demons, then 500 Randomonsters, and tell me the better graphics make it ok)... what else are you going to do? Go play LoTR? Wait a month to get into Diablo? WoW? Psh get real.

It sucks. Log into the game and play the game and Turbine will see how many people are playing and work to get the issue resolved as quickly as possible. WHo you should be mad at is whoever somehow exploited the Sagas. I'm not even sure how you would go about doing that, but apparently it's possible.

Cardtrick
05-01-2014, 09:16 AM
I don't believe for a second that ALL these people had JUST finished a saga, then decided not to turn it in and log off, if sagas were THAT important to them.

Again with this. It's not about just finishing a saga.

The whole point of sagas for most people is that you bank that XP for later, when it's more useful to you. You might finish the quests for one saga on Monday, then another saga on Tuesday, a third on Wednesday, and tidy up the rest on Thursday. Then on Friday you hit cap and eTR, then drink a superior XP potion and cash in all your saga rewards to immediately skip the first couple of levels and get back to where you can use your ML 23 gear so you can start the eTR process all over again.

That said, I'm not one of those people and I don't particularly care about this for any personal reason. I just don't think you guys should be trivializing the impact for those who it does affect -- for some people, the TR/eTR cycle is the game, and sagas are a big component of that.

Oxarhamar
05-01-2014, 10:58 AM
Again with this. It's not about just finishing a saga.

The whole point of sagas for most people is that you bank that XP for later, when it's more useful to you. You might finish the quests for one saga on Monday, then another saga on Tuesday, a third on Wednesday, and tidy up the rest on Thursday. Then on Friday you hit cap and eTR, then drink a superior XP potion and cash in all your saga rewards to immediately skip the first couple of levels and get back to where you can use your ML 23 gear so you can start the eTR process all over again.

That said, I'm not one of those people and I don't particularly care about this for any personal reason. I just don't think you guys should be trivializing the impact for those who it does affect -- for some people, the TR/eTR cycle is the game, and sagas are a big component of that.

Drink that pot and run some quests on EN fast for XP it will take you to about the same level. We did wizking EN x2 von3 EN Von 5 EN and the full Gianthold story arc on EN taking us to level 23 With our sagas flagged and waiting from last life. Does it suck that sagas are down? Yes. Will it effect my play? Not really same old same old adjust nod overcome.

dontmater
05-01-2014, 01:07 PM
we should get more cards, hehe

Llewndyn
05-01-2014, 03:13 PM
Again with this. It's not about just finishing a saga.

The whole point of sagas for most people is that you bank that XP for later, when it's more useful to you. You might finish the quests for one saga on Monday, then another saga on Tuesday, a third on Wednesday, and tidy up the rest on Thursday. Then on Friday you hit cap and eTR, then drink a superior XP potion and cash in all your saga rewards to immediately skip the first couple of levels and get back to where you can use your ML 23 gear so you can start the eTR process all over again.

That said, I'm not one of those people and I don't particularly care about this for any personal reason. I just don't think you guys should be trivializing the impact for those who it does affect -- for some people, the TR/eTR cycle is the game, and sagas are a big component of that.

All snarky comments aside, I'll give you that, I just think there are more constructive ways to complain for some of the people on this thread than "I'll never play agaiiiiinnnn!!!"

lifestaker
05-01-2014, 03:52 PM
*edited out for point of interest*
I just don't think you guys should be trivializing the impact for those who it does affect -- for some people, the TR/eTR cycle is the game, and sagas are a big component of that.

See now you misunderstand what at least I have been saying. The issue is not about sagas not being a part of endgame now. The problem is when people say that they are leaving the game over sagas not being there anymore, because sagas were the entire game to them. Ya they might be helpful endgame but they are not the main part of the game, yet alone the soul reason people should have to play the game.


But coming on here and saying "I'll never play again I hate Turbine NoooOoOooOooOO!!!!!" when you have a join date of 2007 and a history of saying this same thing over and over and over, isn't going to get you where you think it will.

Along with my posts don't heckle a person for being effected by sagas being down, it is in reference to the players who cry out any time something goes down in the game that they are going to stop playing. It is illogical to think along those lines. Would you starve to death if you wanted a pulled pork tacos with a southern sweet tea, but could not have it for what ever reason? Dehydrate because you want Voss Water and refused to drink anything else?

Logic in life fallows you when you are playing the game or going to a store. To say that you are not gonna play the game due to any reason outside of things outside the game is like going to the store right down your road that you have been going to for years and leaving your cart full of things there because you were ****ed off by a flickering light in aisle 7, then saying you are never gonna shop there again. You think you won something, when in all actuality all they do is put the things back on the shelf for others to get, then down the road you start shopping there again. What did you win? Pride inflation over something so trivial?

If sagas being down hurts you so much you are unable to play any of your characters then take a break, don't make a long-winded post about how much you are hurt by it and then demand compensation for your personal pain and suffering fallowing the inability to play a video game. Don't try and rationalize things that you are unsure of when there is plenty of information about things just on the wiki.
Posts like this:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440640-Guild-Renown-Elixers-and-Saga-Rewards

Careful not to choke on your foot.Who create entire threads to get an answer, then insert a self righteous comment of mockery attached originally would have been solved by typing sagas in the wiki search box. The answers are normally right on the wiki page unless someone has already dedicated the time to make a detailed post on the forums and then said post would be linked to the page. But that would be someone doing research for an answer, while it is just easier to ask questions and have others do the research. The answer would have been quicker without asking. Now waiting for a weekend bonus to come prior to taking the reward is being greedy, more so if you run sagas so much that you will quit the game over them not being in it. You should not need to bank renown from sagas for any amount of time. Waiting 9+ days to turn in a saga really? How many times could you ave rerun all the sagas in the time? If it takes you longer then that then you don't run sagas that much to have them down being that much of an impact on you.

*TL;DR*
stop playing for personal reasons, not because things in game are not going your way.
Don't jump on a horse and get defensive, when you are on a sea horse and can't swim.
Blowing things up out of proportion is what my 10 year old does best, but he colors in the lines.
I hate being the voice of carton animals, but it is an easy way to provide logic to some.

Ivan_Milic
05-01-2014, 06:14 PM
*TL;DR*
stop playing for personal reasons not because things in game are not going your way.
Don't jump on a horse and get defensive, when you are on a sea horse and can't swim.
Blowing things up out of proportion is what my 10 year old does best, but he colors in the lines.
I hate being the voice of carton animals, but it is an easy way to provide logic to some.

People leave because they got sick of this, every new update/patch something else stops working, its annoying and frustrating when they cant fix something.
Then dev comes and says this wasnt caused by a patch but it was working fine before it, so either dev is lying or they let it slide from last patch or who knows how long.
You are playing the game for someone else reasons?
I play the game for my personal reasons, not for someone else.

lifestaker
05-01-2014, 09:03 PM
People leave because they got sick of this, every new update/patch something else stops working, its annoying and frustrating when they cant fix something.
Then dev comes and says this wasnt caused by a patch but it was working fine before it, so either dev is lying or they let it slide from last patch or who knows how long.
You are playing the game for someone else reasons?
I play the game for my personal reasons, not for someone else.

You know I have a leak in a pipe in my basement, been there for 10 years. Each time I fix a section of the plumbing it gets better but has never stopped. So rather then fixing it I put an addition onto my house, wife loves it, but the leak seemed to get worse. Not sure how to fix it outside of turning off all the water into my house and redoing all the plumbing. Even though I want to my wife refuses to move to a different house/hotel for a few days so I can do the job, so I keep trying to fix it when able to, though I think I am having less luck then before thanks to changing people helping me. Luckily though the leak does not stop the water from working in the house, just makes it a pain to keep the basement from flooding, not to mention having to keep working on it. Regardless how many 'experts' i bring in nothing seems to work 100%, so i just live with it.

Notice how I said I live with it. Not that I burnt my house down to save on a water bill. Simple reactions for simple issues, over time you take additional reasonable action as needed if the issues make things impossible to deal with. That is keeping life simple, not letting things snowball out of your control and distorting your perception of what is important. Kinda ties in with all this, if you have been fallowing. Just Turbine was able to isolate a broken line (of code) and turn it off till they could fix it when able. Might be faster to hit the main then to trace all the lines, but at least they took the time to try and 'fix' it.

I do have to thank you for catching a grammatical error I had missed, though normally I let them slide due to lower care then most, this one did make it sound like I was saying something different. Naturally I don't put much time into my TL;DRs mainly due to me assuming that if someone had a questioning mindset on one that they would read some of the post to understand it. Sorry for thinking like that, I will go in to more detail and try to be better about them, though I only do them due to me being long winded in almost everything I say, with the exception of standard greetings and telling people off in a negative fashion.

*TL;DR*
20,000 Leagues under the Sea is a great novel written by Jules Verne, within the bindings of this epic you will find the adventures of Professor Aronnax as he travels deep under the surface of a sea monster waters in hopes of slaying the mythological beast(s). Along the great professor's travels they find Nemo and get to stay on a yellow submarine. There has been several movies put out based off this classic to include Free Willy, Stargate, and Hostile. As well as a few series on TV to include the Smurfs, Greg the Bunny, and lets not all forget The Secret Life of the American Teenager. That is why I conclude you should read the rest of the post.

Llewndyn
05-02-2014, 11:12 AM
People leave because they got sick of this, every new update/patch something else stops working, its annoying and frustrating when they cant fix something.
Then dev comes and says this wasnt caused by a patch but it was working fine before it, so either dev is lying or they let it slide from last patch or who knows how long.
You are playing the game for someone else reasons?
I play the game for my personal reasons, not for someone else.

If it had been put forth like this, I.E. "There has been a long history of these kinds of shenanigans, and this is the straw that broke the camel's back", I'd be a lot more on your side. But to come on here and say, even if it's 100% truth, "I am going to quit because sagas", it makes you look petty and shortsighted, and not someone Turbine should cater to anyway. There are TONS (TONNES if you're from Europe) of constructive ways to respond to Turbine and voice your displeasure; some of the whining over recent relatively mundane changes (Monk QP, Wail of the Banshee, Shroud blades, ETR, how many comms you need) will do nothing more than to ward their collective ears to what are legitimate issues.

It's more like the "Boy who Cried Wolf" parable, in that if you complain EVERY TIME ANYTHING stops working or over every interruption of service (and if you think I'm exaggerating, go look at the service interruption threads for Ghallanda, which seem to come up once a month) that this game sucks and you are going to leave, when Turbine finally DOES go too far and you complain they will assume it's more of the same paper tiger whining and react accordingly.

Sagas being down sucks. I agree. A little milkbone thrown to the players to help smooth things over would be a very nice goodwill gesture. Even if nothing is given, though, it's not game-breaking. Save your ire for when that time comes (if it ever does).

Gljosh
05-02-2014, 02:36 PM
While I am upset that this issue is happening and Turbine has put forth little effort to quell the rage. I am not going to quit, instead I will not buy points, become a VIP again, or get another expansion (I have quests I have yet to run already). I will still "enjoy" the game. I just will no longer provide direct money to Turbine. Vote with your wallet.

HazyOne
05-02-2014, 03:57 PM
Been playing this game for a few years now, have read the forums, but never posted. I feel that saga's are a part of the game i pay to play. I'm a VIP and have been for a couple years, but until this issue is addressed I will not be spending money on this game. I think if enough people do this Turbine will take notice and have to act. I understand it may not be an easy or quick fix, but should be a priority in my opinion. Thx \Hazy

Ivan_Milic
05-02-2014, 04:33 PM
If it had been put forth like this, I.E. "There has been a long history of these kinds of shenanigans, and this is the straw that broke the camel's back", I'd be a lot more on your side. But to come on here and say, even if it's 100% truth, "I am going to quit because sagas", it makes you look petty and shortsighted, and not someone Turbine should cater to anyway. There are TONS (TONNES if you're from Europe) of constructive ways to respond to Turbine and voice your displeasure; some of the whining over recent relatively mundane changes (Monk QP, Wail of the Banshee, Shroud blades, ETR, how many comms you need) will do nothing more than to ward their collective ears to what are legitimate issues.

It's more like the "Boy who Cried Wolf" parable, in that if you complain EVERY TIME ANYTHING stops working or over every interruption of service (and if you think I'm exaggerating, go look at the service interruption threads for Ghallanda, which seem to come up once a month) that this game sucks and you are going to leave, when Turbine finally DOES go too far and you complain they will assume it's more of the same paper tiger whining and react accordingly.

Sagas being down sucks. I agree. A little milkbone thrown to the players to help smooth things over would be a very nice goodwill gesture. Even if nothing is given, though, it's not game-breaking. Save your ire for when that time comes (if it ever does).

I never claimed I will quit.

Lildude
05-03-2014, 07:56 PM
So any news on when this will be fixed????

You shouldn't treat your customers like growing mushrooms Turbine..........

Oxarhamar
05-03-2014, 11:09 PM
so any news on when this will be fixed????

You shouldn't treat your customers like growing mushrooms turbine..........

u22

Ivan_Milic
05-04-2014, 10:49 AM
So any news on when this will be fixed????

You shouldn't treat your customers like growing mushrooms Turbine..........

In a month and half.

DarklinkRedlink
05-05-2014, 09:48 PM
Logged in just to reply, I saw pages 1 and 8, so if I missed anything important please let me know.

I'm glad that Turbine pulled down Sagas in order to fix them.

First off I'm newly VIP, so I now have access to everything (EVERYTHING!!! ~Leon (the Professional)) and this is great, I can access all the stuff I didn't have packs for. But I also understand what it's like to go through the programming and coding cycle. I want to say kudos to Turbine for not letting something run bugged, in this case Sagas. Now I know there are still probably a lot of bugs floating around the code in places, it happens, you fix them when you find them, and move on.

Am I upset? Yeah, I'm a little miffed that I can't get a nice chunk of experience for the runs of the quests I do. But life goes on, and it's not that big of a deal. Do I think Turbine should give out shinies and candy for all the "insulted" people who threaten to quit? No, I don't think Turbine should give out perks or compensation for squeaky wheels who want a new shiny toy.

If something breaks, you fix it. If the process of fixing it goes faster when its disabled (i.e. pipe example, shut the water off then fix the pipe), you disable it TO fix it faster. I've had some good experiences with Support as well, but I think when people have the mindset that everything should be perfect and nothing should ever go wrong, you need to wake up.

If new code is introduced, that somehow affects the previous code in some fashion (which I'm NOT saying happened, because I don't know what happened), then you either pull back the new code (which I wouldn't recommend) or you disable the old code to fix it. Either way people would complain. But somehow it needs to be fixed.

At the end of the day, it's a game, if you're not having fun, don't play. It's that simple.

Soulfurnace
05-06-2014, 01:10 AM
Logged in just to reply, I saw pages 1 and 8, so if I missed anything important please let me know.

I'm glad that Turbine pulled down Sagas in order to fix them.

First off I'm newly VIP, so I now have access to everything (EVERYTHING!!! ~Leon (the Professional)) and this is great, I can access all the stuff I didn't have packs for. But I also understand what it's like to go through the programming and coding cycle. I want to say kudos to Turbine for not letting something run bugged, in this case Sagas. Now I know there are still probably a lot of bugs floating around the code in places, it happens, you fix them when you find them, and move on.
A) No, you don't get everything. Unless it was changed recently, you miss a fair bit.
B) Hah, probably a lot of bugs. There's a lot of bugs... from 2006. By now, there's so many bugs I'm dumbfounded when I consider how many times they've been reported.
C) No, they don't fix them... at least not often. A lot of bugs with enhancements/feats they don't fix and just change the description to suite. MajMal seems to be doing a decent job, but it'll take longer for me to believe Turbine is actually fixing bugs properly - without reintroducing old ones like normal.

Nyata
05-08-2014, 06:39 AM
okay I pretty much stopped reading on page 6 of this thread, so maybe someone else said this already, or maybe this never gets read cause everyone else stops on page 6 too... but let me just point out something.

to summarize this thread (and another one on sagas, and probably a bunch more that I haven't even read yet), people are mostly complaining about all the XP they are loosing by not being able to get saga XP stones. so they have to work less for their TR, epic TR, whatever.

to summarize a bunch of other threads, people are complaining that they do not have the commendations of valor by the time they hit 28 to get a free epic heart.

uhm... something tells me that these things might somehow maybe be connected... and maybe you want to use the time the sagas are down to instead run for commendations? maybe even bank some for your next epic TR? just an idea.. I mean it's not like there is no content to play or no XP to be made...

personally, I feel the loss of tomes to actually improve your character and of guild renown is a lot harder. not having an XP stone to get through your 37th life within a week kinda seems like a luxury problem to a relatively new player, who actually enjoys doing quests.

Gljosh
05-08-2014, 09:19 AM
okay I pretty much stopped reading on page 6 of this thread, so maybe someone else said this already, or maybe this never gets read cause everyone else stops on page 6 too... but let me just point out something.

to summarize this thread (and another one on sagas, and probably a bunch more that I haven't even read yet), people are mostly complaining about all the XP they are loosing by not being able to get saga XP stones. so they have to work less for their TR, epic TR, whatever.

to summarize a bunch of other threads, people are complaining that they do not have the commendations of valor by the time they hit 28 to get a free epic heart.

uhm... something tells me that these things might somehow maybe be connected... and maybe you want to use the time the sagas are down to instead run for commendations? maybe even bank some for your next epic TR? just an idea.. I mean it's not like there is no content to play or no XP to be made...

personally, I feel the loss of tomes to actually improve your character and of guild renown is a lot harder. not having an XP stone to get through your 37th life within a week kinda seems like a luxury problem to a relatively new player, who actually enjoys doing quests.

They might be connected, but not to the extent that people complain about. This thread has had people state 15~20% of the XP comes from Sagas, using that people should be complaining about having mid 3000 CoVs. Most of the complaint threads have a number closer to mid 2000s. Saga XP makes up a little over 10% of my total XP per E/I TR. I have noticed a slow down in my leveling and I normally just ran the 3 ES Sagas repeatedly, now I run Sands and EGH. I don't care about guild renown (my guild is at 100) and I have most of the Skill Tomes I want. I am working through a less than fun SDK Cleric/Rogue Q-staff build, I need to hit level 28 to ITR into a more fun build.

Nyata
05-08-2014, 09:46 AM
They might be connected, but not to the extent that people complain about. This thread has had people state 15~20% of the XP comes from Sagas, using that people should be complaining about having mid 3000 CoVs. Most of the complaint threads have a number closer to mid 2000s.

oh I agree, it's not possible to get the full amount of coms in one go without sitting at cap for at least a little, but still, I am just trying to make a point. no matter what, people complain. someone else in a commendation thread (too lazy to search, sorry) made the point 'and what is the problem with sitting at cap a little? aside from having a larger player pool for the high level content?' - and I perfectly agree with that.
I think it's funny that people seem to actually hate playing so much that they will try anything to avoid playing. what's the point in TRing a character over and over again if you actually hate the game?


I don't care about guild renown (my guild is at 100) and I have most of the Skill Tomes I want. I am working through a less than fun SDK Cleric/Rogue Q-staff build, I need to hit level 28 to ITR into a more fun build.

and that you wouldn't classify as a luxury problem?
I am sorry I am now picking on you. your post is one of the least whiny ones I've read. however, seriously, I think I will never get the mentality of a lot of players.

Gljosh
05-08-2014, 11:17 AM
oh I agree, it's not possible to get the full amount of coms in one go without sitting at cap for at least a little, but still, I am just trying to make a point. no matter what, people complain. someone else in a commendation thread (too lazy to search, sorry) made the point 'and what is the problem with sitting at cap a little? aside from having a larger player pool for the high level content?' - and I perfectly agree with that.
I think it's funny that people seem to actually hate playing so much that they will try anything to avoid playing. what's the point in TRing a character over and over again if you actually hate the game?



and that you wouldn't classify as a luxury problem?
I am sorry I am now picking on you. your post is one of the least whiny ones I've read. however, seriously, I think I will never get the mentality of a lot of players.

I have been playing for over 4 years and Turbine has made a decent amount of promises that have gone unfulfilled. There are bugs that have existed from before I started that have not been fixed. The main issue is that Turbine introduces a new concepts and if players really seem to enjoy it, Sagas/Monster Manual(s) it has a lot of issues and then we get a hot fix right away or it gets turned off. If in the same post about Sagas going down, Turbine had mentioned turning on 10% Bonus XP and Renown, this thread would have a lot less rage. As for whiny, I only have my main so when a build gets dull, I just want to get that done so I can go back to a different build and back to having fun again.

Loholt-UK
05-08-2014, 12:06 PM
The fact that quests are still being tracked is absolutely no consolation for a player who constantly HTRs (as I do at the moment). Once you TR all that hard work is lost along with any potential rewards. The most irksome thing about this (apart from the fact that this is the second time it's happened) is that Sagas were released as part of the Shadowfell Conspiracy and is therefore not free content by any stretch of the imagination. Once again I've paid for a service that I'm not receiving and we have to wait until U22 before it's fixed? Can I just emphasise: Paid-For Content.

Loholt-UK
05-08-2014, 12:14 PM
But I also understand what it's like to go through the programming and coding cycle.

Would you like to give Turbine some tips?

stoerm
05-09-2014, 09:11 AM
On a positive note, at least some people like their sagas then. IIRC Jerry mentioned that the initial player adoption of sagas was very slow, which they found surprising. I guess all the noise validates the decision to add them to the game.

Blayster
05-10-2014, 01:01 PM
... to a relatively new player, who actually enjoys doing quests.

But that's what this is all about. DDO players do not enjoy DDO. They are here due to stubbornness. After all, if you would enjoy a quest you would at least sometimes play it, instead of invisibility-zerging it 12 times for each of your 37 lives.

Silkenwise
05-10-2014, 11:45 PM
But that's what this is all about. DDO players do not enjoy DDO. They are here due to stubbornness. After all, if you would enjoy a quest you would at least sometimes play it, instead of invisibility-zerging it 12 times for each of your 37 lives.

So True!
It's the only way they can gain all the Uber-Tweaks they need to blast apart N00BZ for 8000 damage in one hit in the Wayward Lobster PvP area on a Friday night. Because that has a point. >.<

Nayus
05-10-2014, 11:58 PM
So True!
It's the only way they can gain all the Uber-Tweaks they need to blast apart N00BZ for 8000 damage in one hit in the Wayward Lobster PvP area on a Friday night. Because that has a point. >.<Wait... only 8 thousand? Hmpf... what a bunch of noobs they are, come to Thelanis.

Daniel-A
05-12-2014, 08:30 AM
As I have noticed the saga's have been down for weeks. This gives many player no chance to really play anything. This is a major downfall for DDO, as I have seen many of my friends and many of my guild members leave DDO for another game due to all the problems they have been having, and for not releasing content in a timely fashion. The saga's are only one problem out of very many, is there any planned date that saga's will be turned back on?

Gljosh
05-12-2014, 08:56 AM
As I have noticed the saga's have been down for weeks. This gives many player no chance to really play anything. This is a major downfall for DDO, as I have seen many of my friends and many of my guild members leave DDO for another game due to all the problems they have been having, and for not releasing content in a timely fashion. The saga's are only one problem out of very many, is there any planned date that saga's will be turned back on?

Update 22, this is on Lammania (test server) right now so about 4 weeks away is a rough estimate.

Seikojin
05-12-2014, 05:56 PM
It was also said the day they took them down or the day after: U22 is when they'll be back.

Also U22 has a 4 week lamannia schedule. So I would figure it will be 2 weeks after that. Late june.

Endarire
05-13-2014, 08:15 PM
What caused the sagas to be temporarily disabled? How can they be fixed?

TrinityTurtle
05-14-2014, 12:50 PM
As I have noticed the saga's have been down for weeks. This gives many player no chance to really play anything.

All the quests are still working fine. Each quest still gives loot, experience, and if epic, cov's. The only part of the saga not working is the extra turn in. PLayers can continue to play just fine. Sagas are nice extra bonuses, but they are not necessary. In fact, it could be argued that players have MORE chance to actaully play the game without the extra xp by replacing it doing quests.

Ilindith
05-14-2014, 06:43 PM
Looking forward to seeing sagas fixed.

I mean it's gonna be so hilarious when they break again a week after, right?

Dimwhit1
05-15-2014, 11:24 AM
Looking forward to seeing sagas fixed.

I mean it's gonna be so hilarious when they break again a week after, right?

I don't get how sagas can break. They seem like a very basic feature — just counting the quests you do, adding up points based on difficulty, and giving out rewards accordingly. I'm baffled as to how they got messed up in the first place.

Ilindith
05-15-2014, 11:40 AM
I don't get how sagas can break. They seem like a very basic feature — just counting the quests you do, adding up points based on difficulty, and giving out rewards accordingly. I'm baffled as to how they got messed up in the first place.

They break because features, and versions.

Spoonwelder
05-16-2014, 10:04 AM
I don't get how sagas can break. They seem like a very basic feature — just counting the quests you do, adding up points based on difficulty, and giving out rewards accordingly. I'm baffled as to how they got messed up in the first place.
The sagas aren't broken - the people who look for every wrinkle/code error in the game are broken - broken souls.......they spend all there time perfecting the timing of an exploit to get extra skill tomes, xp rewards or what not.......there are solutions for Turbine but they seem to be ok with punishing the honest folk (by closing sagas) instead of the exploiters (by finding them and banning them).

HungarianRhapsody
05-16-2014, 12:03 PM
The sagas aren't broken - the people who look for every wrinkle/code error in the game are broken - broken souls.......they spend all there time perfecting the timing of an exploit to get extra skill tomes, xp rewards or what not.......there are solutions for Turbine but they seem to be ok with punishing the honest folk (by closing sagas) instead of the exploiters (by finding them and banning them).

Actually finding the exploiters would take work. Turbine has been *very* clear about their stance on doing work they can avoid.

Vordax
05-16-2014, 12:15 PM
The fact that quests are still being tracked is absolutely no consolation for a player who constantly HTRs (as I do at the moment). Once you TR all that hard work is lost along with any potential rewards. The most irksome thing about this (apart from the fact that this is the second time it's happened) is that Sagas were released as part of the Shadowfell Conspiracy and is therefore not free content by any stretch of the imagination. Once again I've paid for a service that I'm not receiving and we have to wait until U22 before it's fixed? Can I just emphasise: Paid-For Content.

They were not released as part of the shadowfell conspiracy, they were released as part of update 19, and everyone that did not buy shadowfell still received sagas.

Vordax
05-16-2014, 12:17 PM
The sagas aren't broken - the people who look for every wrinkle/code error in the game are broken - broken souls.......they spend all there time perfecting the timing of an exploit to get extra skill tomes, xp rewards or what not.......there are solutions for Turbine but they seem to be ok with punishing the honest folk (by closing sagas) instead of the exploiters (by finding them and banning them).

You know as well as I that if they banned all the people that exploited it (which I imagine they can't because they have a hard time identifying them), it won't stop someone new from exploiting. They have to close it.

Ivan_Milic
05-16-2014, 06:46 PM
You know as well as I that if they banned all the people that exploited it (which I imagine they can't because they have a hard time identifying them), it won't stop someone new from exploiting. They have to close it.

Or they could do something really special, like actually fixing it.
Not we think we fixed, we will see with next update, next update comes, e is back, sagas down again.
We will fix it this time, how many times you gonna believe them?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Dimwhit1
05-17-2014, 12:24 AM
Or they could do something really special, like actually fixing it.

Well that would make sense. Based on what I read here, the easiest fix would be to reset saga progress on any reincarnation.

DarklinkRedlink
05-20-2014, 07:25 PM
Actually, I've heard a few things about Sagas and why they were shut down. One group of people (not just one or two, think a decent chunk of a guilds worth) found a way to exploit Sagas to get guild renown, and were sitting around Gianthold getting Guild Renown rewards over and over again. From the same source, those people were perma-banned.

Believe what you want, but I still think its good. Am I still upset about not getting rewards? Meh, a little bit. I think that the majority of people who are complaining about it and not seeing the fact that Turbine is trying to make a better game (one bug at a time is still better than none) aren't having fun playing it.

Previously mentioned Invis-zergs included.

If you're rage playing a game, just because you put money in it (even if you don't enjoy it) then don't play, don't purchase, and don't complain.

Gremmlynn
05-21-2014, 06:01 AM
Actually finding the exploiters would take work. Turbine has been *very* clear about their stance on doing work they can avoid.No, Turbine, like every business, has to weigh the cost of paying people to do that work against the cost of not doing it and the cost in not doing the other things that they could do instead.

Gremmlynn
05-21-2014, 06:08 AM
Or they could do something really special, like actually fixing it.
Not we think we fixed, we will see with next update, next update comes, e is back, sagas down again.
We will fix it this time, how many times you gonna believe them?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.Um, not to put to fine a point on it, but if it bothers someone enough they can simply stop playing until they get it fixed, or at all for that matter.

Ivan_Milic
05-21-2014, 08:12 AM
Um, not to put to fine a point on it, but if it bothers someone enough they can simply stop playing until they get it fixed, or at all for that matter.

That is what I did, didnt play for a month now.
When I start playing I will do heroic tr.

Ivan_Milic
05-21-2014, 08:15 AM
Actually, I've heard a few things about Sagas and why they were shut down. One group of people (not just one or two, think a decent chunk of a guilds worth) found a way to exploit Sagas to get guild renown, and were sitting around Gianthold getting Guild Renown rewards over and over again. From the same source, those people were perma-banned.

Believe what you want, but I still think its good. Am I still upset about not getting rewards? Meh, a little bit. I think that the majority of people who are complaining about it and not seeing the fact that Turbine is trying to make a better game (one bug at a time is still better than none) aren't having fun playing it.

Previously mentioned Invis-zergs included.

If you're rage playing a game, just because you put money in it (even if you don't enjoy it) then don't play, don't purchase, and don't complain.

People get this in your heads.
Problem is turbine cant fix it, or wont, this happened before, and will happen again, we are just losing one of the features from the game for nothing.
How would you feel if turbine disabled ingredient bags?
Making them all not work, not able to put anything in them.
That is the problem.

Thrudh
05-21-2014, 08:20 AM
You know as well as I that if they banned all the people that exploited it (which I imagine they can't because they have a hard time identifying them), it won't stop someone new from exploiting. They have to close it.

It absolutely would stop new players from exploiting. Perma-bans are pretty big deterrants... Is an extra 100k exp or a +4 skill tome worth a perma-ban?

And it shouldn't be that hard at all going forward if Turbine would just start logging everything...

Ivan_Milic
05-21-2014, 08:41 AM
They dont have hard time identifying them, what turbine needs is to be more communicative, if they ban people, write it on forum that you banned them for this and that.
People will think twice to exploit then.

Seikojin
05-21-2014, 10:32 AM
Or they could do something really special, like actually fixing it.
Not we think we fixed, we will see with next update, next update comes, e is back, sagas down again.
We will fix it this time, how many times you gonna believe them?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Mind you, a complex program like ddo is never going to have a single fix for a problem. Ever. So your lamentations and declarations of fixing it right the first time will never be achievable.

Outside of that, perma banning is good for exploiters. For these bugs, damage control is what was needed next; which is what they did. U22 isn't that far off.

ArcaneArcher52689
05-21-2014, 11:03 AM
They dont have hard time identifying them, what turbine needs is to be more communicative, if they ban people, write it on forum that you banned them for this and that.
People will think twice to exploit then.

Things like that can get the forums shut down and turbine sued. Not signed.



As for the bugs "coming back"
you have less than 25(probably less) people @turbine finding & fixing exploits
You have more than 250(probably way more, but a nice even 10x) people trying to find and use exploits.

Who do you think wins out?

Dimwhit1
05-21-2014, 01:33 PM
I don't think you need to ban people exploiting the system. Just boot them out of their guilds and don't let them join another. If they want to play by themselves, let them play all they want. Doesn't really hurt the rest of us. Not that I can think of, anyway.

Ivan_Milic
05-21-2014, 05:49 PM
Things like that can get the forums shut down and turbine sued. Not signed.



As for the bugs "coming back"
you have less than 25(probably less) people @turbine finding & fixing exploits
You have more than 250(probably way more, but a nice even 10x) people trying to find and use exploits.

Who do you think wins out?

You have 2 major duping bugs, so number of people exploiting doesnt matter.
How can that get forums shut down and turbine sued?
Turbine can do with your account whatever turbine wants, did you even read TOS?

Ivan_Milic
05-21-2014, 05:50 PM
Mind you, a complex program like ddo is never going to have a single fix for a problem. Ever. So your lamentations and declarations of fixing it right the first time will never be achievable.

Outside of that, perma banning is good for exploiters. For these bugs, damage control is what was needed next; which is what they did. U22 isn't that far off.

And it wont get fixed 2nd time, that is why I want turbine to ban people.

DarklinkRedlink
05-21-2014, 06:14 PM
You have 2 major duping bugs, so number of people exploiting doesnt matter.
How can that get forums shut down and turbine sued?
Turbine can do with your account whatever turbine wants, did you even read TOS?

Yes, there are duping bugs, but you can tell when an item is duplicated because it will have nothing for weight or base value. People know about this.

I believe Turbine will fix it, because they know that they're likely to lose business because of it. But like ArcaneArcher said above, the ratio of bug fixing to bug exploiting is huge, and unless they hire more people (which, Turbine had recent layoffs a few months ago) it will take time to fix.

I know someone who is so upset about Sagas, they stopped playing DDO and started playing Star Wars the Old Republic, just because they couldn't get Saga rewards. It seems really extreme to me to jump ship like that (especially to an EA game...)

Ivan_Milic
05-21-2014, 06:24 PM
What the hell does number of people exploiting gotta do with turbine fixing bug?
Duping bug has been in game for over 2 years, if you think they will fix it now, then if feel sorry for you.

DarklinkRedlink
05-21-2014, 07:13 PM
What the hell does number of people exploiting gotta do with turbine fixing bug?
Duping bug has been in game for over 2 years, if you think they will fix it now, then if feel sorry for you.

I was talking about Sagas. Considering how many people complain, leave, gripe, and whine about it, I would expect Turbine to fix Sagas before duping. Especially since people know what a duped item looks like. And even though the initial response to Sagas was surprisingly low, it jumped up and is obviously now a major ticket item.

The point being made is if there are 25 people finding and fixing bugs, while there are 250 people finding to exploit bugs...then the bugs will never be fixed on time.

So yes, report bugs and exploits so they can be noted and eventually fixed, but the capacity to fix bugs is directly related to the manpower working at Turbine.

Straight banning everyone won't solve anything. Yes it will make an example of someone, but it will not make the bugs disappear. It can also lose customers, I like the idea said above of removing them from their guild and setting a flag in their character/account (depending on Turbines discretion) so they cannot join guilds anymore.

These things take time and an entire cycle of programming to find and understand them. Then test a patch, and if it works you apply said patch, if it doesn't, you start making a new patch. Considering you're looking at pages and pages of code for one tiny thing, I highly doubt that anything would be fixed within a day or even a week, because massive projects take massive amounts of time.

If Turbine says it'll be fixed by Update 22, then I'm going to take their word for it. Why? Because nobody except Turbine knows when Turbine is going to fix something. So I trust them. Because the only other options that seem to be given are to:

1. Rage play the game
2. Complain about the game while playing the game
3. Quit playing the game

I'd rather trust Turbine to get things done, and to get them done properly instead of rushing a half-finished patch for something important.

Ivan_Milic
05-22-2014, 05:08 AM
Yea, I guess your life is all peachy when you can trust turbine that they will fix something after they said they fixed it before, now it is broken again.

Catteras
05-22-2014, 05:39 AM
Straight banning everyone won't solve anything. Yes it will make an example of someone, but it will not make the bugs disappear. It can also lose customers, I like the idea said above of removing them from their guild and setting a flag in their character/account (depending on Turbines discretion) so they cannot join guilds anymore.


The hell it won't solve anything. It certainly WILL solve much of the problem. The greatest reason in society that people do not commit crimes is because of the consequences. Knowledge of the consequences is a major deterrent to committing the crime in the first place.

If exploiters and cheaters are perma-banned you have two immediate things working toward solving the problem:
1) serial exploiters are removed from the game
2) would be exploiters see and are informed of exploiters who were banned and then think twice about exploiting themselves.

Perm-banning would be a major deterrent to exploiting/cheating. However, as soon as an exploit is known, Turbine should very publicly explain what the exploit is and then let us all know they are tracking it and perma-banning anyone who does it. The first time they do this, people will test the line in the sand, and Turbine will need to come down hard. After that, I'll bet that exploitation dies away really quick.

Turbine's closed-mouth policy about exploits is really quite stupid. People find out anyway. They should be very open about what the exploit is and what the consequences are. Then no one can complain when he is perma-banned because he was well informed prior.

Ivan_Milic
05-22-2014, 05:54 AM
Just because they dont mention exploits, doesnt mean nobody knows about it.
I seriously dont know what is turbine trying to achieve with silence.
People can find out just by pugging, someone will tell you after you run with them few times.
But no, you cant even mention exploit on forum without getting infractions, like that will solve anything.

zaphear
05-23-2014, 08:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Not going to lie, I didn't know about any duping bugs/exploits until these forum posts popped up about them. Now it's all pretty common knowledge.

Lizardgrad89
05-26-2014, 08:28 PM
The sagas aren't broken - the people who look for every wrinkle/code error in the game are broken - broken souls.......they spend all there time perfecting the timing of an exploit to get extra skill tomes, xp rewards or what not.......there are solutions for Turbine but they seem to be ok with punishing the honest folk (by closing sagas) instead of the exploiters (by finding them and banning them).

Ok, now this is where I get confused.

WHO CARES IF SOMEBODY IS GETTING AN EXTRA TOME?

If there are people in the game who are only happy when they can solo an elite quest five levels levels up, and they are willing to do anything to get there, WHY NOT LET THEM? Unless they are breaking into the source code and rewriting the game, or hurting turbine financially in some way, I fail to see the harm. So what if somebody figured out how to get non-epic toons into epic quests, or figured out how to get double renown from a saga? It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt you, pretty much all it does is create a bunch of people who sit around complaining that they are bored and have no challenge. And Turbine already deals with that by putting out new content.

I say Turbine should turn it all back on, and if some people figure out a way to get an advantage, well, GOOD FOR THEM. For myself, I'll just continue to muddle along, trying to get my wizzie to 20 so I can tr him, and if some dude runs by me that ate all +5 tomes, wearing solid gold +14 dexterity underpants, well, good on him.

Dimwhit1
05-26-2014, 08:58 PM
Ok, now this is where I get confused.

WHO CARES IF SOMEBODY IS GETTING AN EXTRA TOME?

If there are people in the game who are only happy when they can solo an elite quest five levels levels up, and they are willing to do anything to get there, WHY NOT LET THEM? Unless they are breaking into the source code and rewriting the game, or hurting turbine financially in some way, I fail to see the harm. So what if somebody figured out how to get non-epic toons into epic quests, or figured out how to get double renown from a saga? It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt you, pretty much all it does is create a bunch of people who sit around complaining that they are bored and have no challenge. And Turbine already deals with that by putting out new content.

I say Turbine should turn it all back on, and if some people figure out a way to get an advantage, well, GOOD FOR THEM. For myself, I'll just continue to muddle along, trying to get my wizzie to 20 so I can tr him, and if some dude runs by me that ate all +5 tomes, wearing solid gold +14 dexterity underpants, well, good on him.

Amen. Doesn't bother me if people figured out how to break the game. Good for them, if that's what they like. I have no problem with people playing it the way the want. Doesn't affect me at all.

Qhualor
05-26-2014, 09:12 PM
Ok, now this is where I get confused.

WHO CARES IF SOMEBODY IS GETTING AN EXTRA TOME?

If there are people in the game who are only happy when they can solo an elite quest five levels levels up, and they are willing to do anything to get there, WHY NOT LET THEM? Unless they are breaking into the source code and rewriting the game, or hurting turbine financially in some way, I fail to see the harm. So what if somebody figured out how to get non-epic toons into epic quests, or figured out how to get double renown from a saga? It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt you, pretty much all it does is create a bunch of people who sit around complaining that they are bored and have no challenge. And Turbine already deals with that by putting out new content.

I say Turbine should turn it all back on, and if some people figure out a way to get an advantage, well, GOOD FOR THEM. For myself, I'll just continue to muddle along, trying to get my wizzie to 20 so I can tr him, and if some dude runs by me that ate all +5 tomes, wearing solid gold +14 dexterity underpants, well, good on him.

you contradict yourself. who cares if somebody is getting an extra tome by exploiting a bug as long as it doesn't affect Turbine financially? well than why not just allow everyone to do the same and see how well that works out. why pay for something when they can easily find a way to get something for free? obviously it affects everyone because we don't have sagas right now and haven't for a long while. it may not seriously hurt Turbine financially, but I know it doesn't help either. shutting down sagas was actually a good idea and maybe some people will think twice. I doubt it, but I also think every time Turbine finds out about an exploit they should shut it down for awhile or take it away from us for awhile.

HungarianRhapsody
05-27-2014, 08:53 AM
you contradict yourself. who cares if somebody is getting an extra tome by exploiting a bug as long as it doesn't affect Turbine financially? well than why not just allow everyone to do the same and see how well that works out. why pay for something when they can easily find a way to get something for free? obviously it affects everyone because we don't have sagas right now and haven't for a long while. it may not seriously hurt Turbine financially, but I know it doesn't help either. shutting down sagas was actually a good idea and maybe some people will think twice. I doubt it, but I also think every time Turbine finds out about an exploit they should shut it down for awhile or take it away from us for awhile.

I think that every time Turbine finds out about an exploit, they should be at least mildly embarrassed and should fix it right away. I also think that they should put some effort into finding the people who duplicate items (since it should be relatively easy to catch the most egregious offenders). None of those things seem to happen on a regular basis.

Dimwhit1
05-27-2014, 09:15 AM
I think that every time Turbine finds out about an exploit, they should be at least mildly embarrassed and should fix it right away. I also think that they should put some effort into finding the people who duplicate items (since it should be relatively easy to catch the most egregious offenders). None of those things seem to happen on a regular basis.

What exactly does it mean to duplicate items? I've never heard of that (or seen it).

HungarianRhapsody
05-27-2014, 09:18 AM
What exactly does it mean to duplicate items? I've never heard of that (or seen it).

In some MMOs, it's possible to exploit some bugs in the game to duplicate/create more of an item that you have. Duplicating armor doesn't matter much because you can't wear more than one set of armor at a time, so who cares if you have 75,000 sets of that armor? But duplicating consumables like mana pots or crafting ingredients, etc. can make a big difference in a game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duping_%28gaming%29

Obviously, no duplicating would be possible in DDO, though. Or something.

Cordovan
06-11-2014, 12:03 PM
Now that Update 22 has arrived, Sagas have been re-enabled. Enjoy!

gaffneyks
06-11-2014, 12:36 PM
Thank You!!!!!

UurlockYgmeov
06-11-2014, 03:39 PM
yes!

and new sagas as well!

Farkam
06-11-2014, 06:03 PM
yes!

and new sagas as well!

They added a Cove Saga? or there are more?

Dimwhit1
06-11-2014, 07:48 PM
They added a Cove Saga? or there are more?

Cove saga (heroic and epic).

Grimlock
06-12-2014, 07:38 AM
Regarding Sagas being turned back on:

1. I assume that even though some of us may have lesser reincarnated, or epic reincarnated more than once since this was disabled that we will still get credit on whatever life we are on for sagas completed in previous lives?


2. What if we completed a saga multiple times from previous lives due to leveling? Will we be able to turn in said saga more than once if we did it more than once on previous lives?

Loromir
06-12-2014, 07:41 AM
Regarding Sagas being turned back on:

1. I assume that even though some of us may have lesser reincarnated, or epic reincarnated more than once since this was disabled that we will still get credit on whatever life we are on for sagas completed in previous lives?


2. What if we completed a saga multiple times from previous lives due to leveling? Will we be able to turn in said saga more than once if we did it more than once on previous lives?

Don't hold your breath. In fact, I am finding that some of the quests that I completed have not been tracked for saga. The GH Epic quests did track properly however.

Grimlock
06-12-2014, 07:50 AM
Don't hold your breath. In fact, I am finding that some of the quests that I completed have not been tracked for saga. The GH Epic quests did track properly however.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised.... Epic Gianthold worked eh? Well I am relatively sure Grimmlock has completed most of the sagas that were previously in game and certainly more than once for a few of those. I will be opening up a help ticket come Friday once I finish my lesser reincarnation cool down timer and then collect what experience I can.

This is a big disappointment. I feel as if we should be able to collect multiple times if we completed multiple times. Honestly what was missing out here was a crapload of XP.

I would like to see Turbine grant everyone an Epic Otto's Box as compensation for this to level things out.

Dimwhit1
06-12-2014, 11:31 AM
This is a big disappointment. I feel as if we should be able to collect multiple times if we completed multiple times. Honestly what was missing out here was a crapload of XP.

How would that work? You have to cash in the reward, then re-start the saga, don't you? Doesn't really make sense that you could get multiple cash-ins of the saga at one time.

ImanCarrot
06-12-2014, 12:41 PM
1. I assume that even though some of us may have lesser reincarnated, or epic reincarnated more than once since this was disabled that we will still get credit on whatever life we are on for sagas completed in previous lives?

No chance (well mine didn't carry over from a prev life).

tbh, I didn't expect it to. I always assume the worst here and occasionally, just sometimes it doesn't happen.